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All book discussion in this thread is now allowed. |
I mean, there's clearly not much trust between Sansa and Arya. Unless it happened offscreen Arya has told Sansa virtually nothing of what happened to her, let alone the bombshell "I'm a shapeshifting assassin now btw" that could prove tactically pivotal if there's a conflict with Cersei. Would not be surprised if she kills Littlefinger then steals his face to try to bait Sansa into saying something that makes her worth killing.
On August 15 2017 01:48 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2017 01:44 OtherWorld wrote:On August 15 2017 01:41 The_Red_Viper wrote:On August 15 2017 01:35 Plansix wrote:On August 15 2017 01:28 The_Red_Viper wrote:On August 15 2017 01:25 Plansix wrote:
One key is that Littlefringer isn’t perfect. He isn’t 2000’s era Batman, with unlimited plans that make all challenges not challenging. He can miscalculate and make mistakes. Arya could have planned to deal with him from the instant she saw him. Or she is playing him with Sansa’s help and the whole plan is off camera. It doesn't have to be perfect, it just has to be smart to some extent. It isn't though. Also can we talk about Jon's plan to catch a wight. How exactly do they imagine to do that without having to deal with way too many? Is there even a plan? I don’t think the plan in unreasonable, since his goal is to drive a wedge between them so he can keep whispering in Sansa’s ear. Arya is filled with a desire for revenge and had a rough time out in the wild world. Sansa was a captive and swore an oath she didn’t mean to protect herself. But Littlefinger is counting on Arya not caring about all the horrible things that happened and focusing on all the nice things surrounding Sansa in kings landing. That Sansa didn’t try to do anything and simply went along with all of it. I just question if Arya is that petty. Or if she will go to Bran for advice. See i would understand that if he did that to people who aren't directly related. But they are sisters, i don't think it's smart to simply assume they won't talk to each other more privately. It seems pretty unlikely in my book, even if they were apart for years. Playing people against each other works best if they aren't really close. But hey who knows, i just would be extremely surprised if it works out. Though tbf, the show wanted to establish Arya being somewhat aggressive towards Sansa (for almost no reason imo). So it might just be the path they go with it. Yeah, I'm ready to bet Arya will use the scroll to openly confront Sansa in front of the lords or something like that. Like, the lords are trying to convince Sansa to become their Queen, then Arya walks in and accuses her of treason. I mean if she does that then Sansa simply tells them why and they all "laugh" about it. Then they ask where she got that from and Littlefinger will be like "oops". Could be. Again, what is the plan of the northern expedition? How can you catch a wight without havign to fight hundreds? In general i think the plan of showing one to the southern lords/cersei is good, but it seems kinda hard to get one at this point.
I think the closest I've heard to a "good" plan for their terrible wight-capturing plan that will make it easier for Cersei to backstab them is to lure a group of wights back to the wall and slam it shut on a small enough number to isolate just one after dispatching the rest. This would result in the whole army being at the wall, but they're basically there anyway (would have been a few episodes back if Night King had some air and law runes for Westeros teleport).
I'm kind of hoping for a big "they can swim/freeze water" reveal coming after Jon and co assume water would protect them, but considering they didn't take a boat out that doesn't seem to be the plan.
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I don't think it fits though. Especially the Gendry fanservice where Davos finds him magically.
I mean so what? I don't know why you care about these small details. What I get annoyed about is when the major plot point/strategical decisions make no sense.
Gendy being added doesn't change anything about anything. It is just fan-service and his rowing-comment made me laugh abit.
but the huge coincidences where he finds all the right things at the right time
This is the type of things you would see in any type of show. Alot of small luck and coincidences going in the right way. I think you are overly critical here. I think Jon snow not having died a few times giving how many battles he has been part in is more lucky - but that's just part of tv.
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I care about it because the time used for fanservice could be spent elsewhere, for example to give us additional scenes for stuff we complained about before.
It's a waste of screentime
edit: this season has a lot of fanservice and that sucks imo. But hey they said they don't have enough story to do more than 13 episodes. Cut important context everywhere + fanservice just angers me a bit.
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On August 15 2017 03:07 The_Red_Viper wrote:
I care about it because the time used for fanservice could be spent elsewhere, for example to give us additional scenes for stuff we complained about before.
It's a waste of screentime
it was 1 minute? There are far worse scenes in season 1-4.
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It adds up and considering that one minute could make other scenes better with 10 seconds here and 10 seconds there i think it's actually important.
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I wish they spent more time explaining why Cersei's hair hasnt grown back yet. That would at least legitimize all the time-skipping Jon and co. has undergone to get around Westeros.
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On August 15 2017 03:27 Emnjay808 wrote:
I wish they spent more time explaining why Cersei's hair hasnt grown back yet. That would at least legitimize all the time-skipping Jon and co. has undergone to get around Westeros.
She doesn't want it to grow long again? It's probably something she does as a badge of pride for her exacting revenge on those who wronged her.
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On August 15 2017 03:27 Emnjay808 wrote:
I wish they spent more time explaining why Cersei's hair hasnt grown back yet. That would at least legitimize all the time-skipping Jon and co. has undergone to get around Westeros.
So the problem is that TV shows shoot things out of order. So the logical solution is to have her keep the hair short. Or create an elaborate wig system and time line. They chose for her to keep the pixy.
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I hope Dothraki will start acting like Dorthraki sooner or later. They're not Unsullied, they need to start causing problems.
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ice-breathing frost wyrm gogo
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On August 15 2017 03:50 Sent. wrote:
I hope Dothraki will start acting like Dorthraki sooner or later. They're not Unsullied, they need to start causing problems.
They are going to see the Undead Jon is trying to obtain and be told they can go down in history as the front line against the greatest army the world has ever faced. They already followed her across the ocean, they will literally ride with her to the end of the world. It is kind dope sounding as I am writing it down.
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The wall still stands and walking around it will be really lame considering the Wall have stood for 8000 years. It will be 100% magic involved for breaking the Wall and invading Westeros. I am expecting the invasion will begin in the grand finale of this season.
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Seriously, this episode was what is wrong with the show. That was a full hour of completely non-sensical teleporting, fanservice, tactical stupidity and ignoring any logic or common knowledge.
It starts with Jaime and Bran magically appearing somewhere that is not a dragons mouth or a prison. Then they come up with the most stupid plan ever, to smuggle two people into the city so they can have a talk with their enemy. That is so infuriating. Just capture them with the rest of the army, then tell them that their are undead and let him go back. Problem fucking solved. But they had to do it because they really needed to revive Gendry so they could have the rowing line. Wink wink. FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK! Don't get me started on Jorah the Andal, that was revived to die heroically by Nights King or the idea that catching a wright and presenting him to the south as proof. And then Cersei is like i did let my brother escape because i am a crazy person when the plot needs it and a master of tactics and war whenever that serves the plot. And then there is that forced drama in Winterfell. It's like a romcom where at the end, there has to be a stupid mistake by one person so that the reunion is so much sweeter.
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I don't understand the plan at all. Why do they need to convince Cersei? Are they assuming she'll just suspend hostilities, fight the dead alongside them and not backstab? If so, that's utterly moronic.
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Forget the hair. Now we've got a Cersei baby to contend with. Maybe it will be a plot point for Jamie to be like "wait a second, it's been like three months of travel time, why are you not bumpier???"
On August 15 2017 04:24 ShAsTa wrote:
I don't understand the plan at all. Why do they need to convince Cersei? Are they assuming she'll just suspend hostilities, fight the dead alongside them and not backstab? If so, that's utterly moronic.
I think their reasoning is that if they head for the wall Cersei will conquer the parts of Westeros that Dany controls...which is currently none of them, so it shouldn't really be a big deal. It feels more to me like Dany just really, really wants to sit on the throne ASAP, but who knows.
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I liked all the teleporting(aka, traveling). It was linear. Everyone said they were going to a place. They went to a place and then they returned from a place. Then they left to go to another place and arrived. That episode spanned a full month(more if we count the travel to the north by boat), but it move forward in a liner fashion.
On August 15 2017 04:24 ShAsTa wrote:
I don't understand the plan at all. Why do they need to convince Cersei? Are they assuming she'll just suspend hostilities, fight the dead alongside them and not backstab? If so, that's utterly moronic.
They need Dany and her armies to win. She can’t come help while at war with Kingslanding, because they will trap her in the north. Uprooting them from Kingslanding will take to long. So they want an armistice. And the Evil Queen will go for it because she knows she will lose the war, so why not buy time.
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On August 15 2017 04:24 ShAsTa wrote:
I don't understand the plan at all. Why do they need to convince Cersei? Are they assuming she'll just suspend hostilities, fight the dead alongside them and not backstab? If so, that's utterly moronic.
Maybe they hope that she'll surrender or that some new Jaime Lannister will show up to kill the monarch, though this time he'll be called "Queenslayer". Has to be said that the writers are doing it poorly, but I think it's clear they want to make it look like team Dany wants to avoid taking King's Landing by force at all costs.
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I agree about Jaime and Bronn making it out there, that should never ever have happened.
Also at least the portrayal of that "smuggling" was questionable, they even made clear that it wasn't all that hard to find the boat just to have that Gendry with the warhammer scene.
Arya being that hostile towards Sansa seems also a bit strange and forced, but i guess i can buy it somewhat. I could buy it more if they stayed consistent with Arya's development though. In one scene she is a psychopath freak, in the other she sings with ed sheeran.
So yeah lots of weird things, but at this point it's expected.
Also one thing, i really miss ghost 
Still, another decent episode imo. it could be so much better though 
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On August 15 2017 04:21 Broetchenholer wrote:
Seriously, this episode was what is wrong with the show. That was a full hour of completely non-sensical teleporting, fanservice, tactical stupidity and ignoring any logic or common knowledge.
It starts with Jaime and Bran magically appearing somewhere that is not a dragons mouth or a prison. Then they come up with the most stupid plan ever, to smuggle two people into the city so they can have a talk with their enemy. That is so infuriating. Just capture them with the rest of the army, then tell them that their are undead and let him go back. Problem fucking solved. But they had to do it because they really needed to revive Gendry so they could have the rowing line. Wink wink. FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK! Don't get me started on Jorah the Andal, that was revived to die heroically by Nights King or the idea that catching a wright and presenting him to the south as proof. And then Cersei is like i did let my brother escape because i am a crazy person when the plot needs it and a master of tactics and war whenever that serves the plot. And then there is that forced drama in Winterfell. It's like a romcom where at the end, there has to be a stupid mistake by one person so that the reunion is so much sweeter.
I see a lot of people bringing up/complaining about how Jamie/Bronn were able to just swim away. First, from Dany's point of view it probably looked like the two of them were toasted. Second, it is extremely likely that Dany had no clue who was charging after her, given that she had never met Jamie before, and only actually looked at him for an instant before the Dragon shot fire at him. So even if she did see them dive into the water, in her mind it probably wouldn't even be worth the time to chase after two nobodies, who are no longer a threat/possibly dead, when her dragon is sitting there injured and there is still a battle going on.
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On August 15 2017 04:28 Sent. wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2017 04:24 ShAsTa wrote:
I don't understand the plan at all. Why do they need to convince Cersei? Are they assuming she'll just suspend hostilities, fight the dead alongside them and not backstab? If so, that's utterly moronic. Maybe they hope that she'll surrender or that some new Jaime Lannister will show up to kill the monarch, though this time he'll be called "Queenslayer". Has to be said that the writers are doing it poorly, but I think it's clear they want to make it look like team Dany wants to avoid taking King's Landing by force at all costs.
Unless Dany outCerseis Cersei and kill her when they meet for the armistice. I mean I could see that as an option ; many times we're hinted at the fact that she's slowly becoming a mad Queen with a liking for burning people down, and she's surely fully aware that going to war with allies you can't trust is the best way to die.
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EPT
