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Simple Questions, Simple Answers - Page 455

Forum Index > Dota 2 Strategy
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Comeh
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States18919 Posts
May 24 2013 23:22 GMT
#9081
On May 25 2013 07:50 TheYango wrote:
Blademail sucks except against a few specific heroes.

Generally your itemization goal with off-lane clock is "buy whatever you neef to not die". Blademail isn't an efficient way to do this because of how much it spends on damage/int. Generally you build some combination of Mek, Vit Booster, Platemail, Hood/Pipe, Ghost Scepter. Bracer is gotten as an early HP buffer when you have very little off-lane farm to work with. Aghanim's is a luxury when you can survive long enough to get that 2nd/3rd hook off in the same fight.

A really common build these days that I'm a big fan of is to get a force staff, so you could cog (preferably a melee carry) hero in, force staff out, and let that carry be stuck in cogs for 8 seconds while your team proceeds to clean up the rest of the team.
ヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノDELETE ICEFROGヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(
TheSubtleArt
Profile Joined May 2011
Canada2527 Posts
May 25 2013 00:08 GMT
#9082
On May 25 2013 07:50 TheYango wrote:
Blademail sucks except against a few specific heroes.

Generally your itemization goal with off-lane clock is "buy whatever you neef to not die". Blademail isn't an efficient way to do this because of how much it spends on damage/int. Generally you build some combination of Mek, Vit Booster, Platemail, Hood/Pipe, Ghost Scepter. Bracer is gotten as an early HP buffer when you have very little off-lane farm to work with. Aghanim's is a luxury when you can survive long enough to get that 2nd/3rd hook off in the same fight.

I've seen some clockwerks go for force staff too
Dodge arrows
SXGCoil
Profile Joined February 2012
United States341 Posts
May 25 2013 00:09 GMT
#9083
When is it worth getting an orb of venom on veno? I think it's pretty good since it's effectively another level on poison sting of 275 gold.
negon
Profile Joined February 2012
212 Posts
May 25 2013 00:21 GMT
#9084
Technically it's worth it pretty much every time, since it's cheap and good, but when you're playing a hard support you 1) won't really have enough money, unless you decide to delay wards/Boots upgrade.. which you should not 2) will need the item slot for other stuff, since a support's slots get filled up rather quickly, having to carry both kinds of wards, TP scroll, dust or smoke from time to time etc.
I'd say get it if you're going mid and will gank a lot, other than that you don't really need it anyway.
u sixpoll?
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
May 25 2013 01:32 GMT
#9085
On May 25 2013 09:09 SXGCoil wrote:
When is it worth getting an orb of venom on veno? I think it's pretty good since it's effectively another level on poison sting of 275 gold.

From that point of view, a Circlet is a point of stats for 185 gold, and a point of stats isn't worse than a point of poison sting.
Moderator
Entertaining
Profile Joined September 2007
Canada793 Posts
May 25 2013 01:39 GMT
#9086
On May 25 2013 09:09 SXGCoil wrote:
When is it worth getting an orb of venom on veno? I think it's pretty good since it's effectively another level on poison sting of 275 gold.


Never? Its just gimmicky.
SXGCoil
Profile Joined February 2012
United States341 Posts
May 25 2013 01:55 GMT
#9087
On May 25 2013 10:39 Entertaining wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 25 2013 09:09 SXGCoil wrote:
When is it worth getting an orb of venom on veno? I think it's pretty good since it's effectively another level on poison sting of 275 gold.


Never? Its just gimmicky.

Considering it was featured in a dignitas article, it can't be THAT gimmicky.
Evisser
Profile Joined November 2012
United States24 Posts
May 25 2013 02:11 GMT
#9088
When is it worth getting an orb of venom on veno? I think it's pretty good since it's effectively another level on poison sting of 275 gold.


Its rare, if you are supporting that 275 gold could go to better things like wards. Probably the only time that an orb would be good on you is if you are solo laneing against a melee hero, but at the same time you could just put levels into poison sting and save the 275 gold. It is also much more effective on melee heroes in general.
Dead9
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States4725 Posts
May 25 2013 02:14 GMT
#9089
yeah poison sting isnt even leveled over stats so idk why youd want an oov
Belisarius
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia6233 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-25 05:52:43
May 25 2013 05:50 GMT
#9090
So building juggs....

If you're the hard carry and go phase>drums>yasha for early presence, but it becomes clear you're not going to end early, what do you want as a first "big" item?

Aghs is nice but it feels gimmicky if I'm also supposed to be the big right clicker. Bfury is okay, but to me it's only an option if I can a) afford to go afk and b) still outcarry at 6-slots. Is bfly valid that early? Manta since i already have yasha? I'd obviously be looking at BKB at some point too.
Shootemup.
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States1044 Posts
May 25 2013 07:03 GMT
#9091
I just played a game where I got totally owned TA vs QoP. She started with an Illusion rune and used the illusions to break all my refraction charges and then shadow strike just wrecked me. I have heard people say that TA is supposed to win that matchup, but I don't know how. Is there a different skill build that people usually use? I usually go refraction first, but should I pick up meld to disjoint shadow strikes?
"Dirty Timber Picker" Mity Teem Larquad. "I am a baddie and tango is a smartiepants." -KwarK "When you said you didn't play Invoker I thought you were just being modest"
Xxazn4lyfe51xX
Profile Joined October 2010
United States976 Posts
May 25 2013 07:41 GMT
#9092
It's hard to say that either TA or QoP should win their matchup. QoP is generally regarded as decent competition to TA due to shadowstrike.

I wouldn't skip refraction lvl 1 just to avoid shadowstrike. Rely on your starting regen until you can get your bottle. You need refraction to ensure those last hits though with the bonus damage. You certainly might consider taking meld at level 2 though over psi blades to dodge those melds. If I were the QoP though, that would just prompt me to plant a sentry in mid lane.
Blitzkrieg0
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States13132 Posts
May 25 2013 08:01 GMT
#9093
On May 25 2013 16:41 Xxazn4lyfe51xX wrote:
It's hard to say that either TA or QoP should win their matchup. QoP is generally regarded as decent competition to TA due to shadowstrike.

I wouldn't skip refraction lvl 1 just to avoid shadowstrike. Rely on your starting regen until you can get your bottle. You need refraction to ensure those last hits though with the bonus damage. You certainly might consider taking meld at level 2 though over psi blades to dodge those melds. If I were the QoP though, that would just prompt me to plant a sentry in mid lane.


TA has higher base damage than QoP (Even with a mantle start you have equal). You don't actually need the refraction to secure last hits.
I'll always be your shadow and veil your eyes from states of ain soph aur.
Nightmarjoo
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
United States3360 Posts
May 25 2013 08:33 GMT
#9094
On May 25 2013 14:50 Belisarius wrote:
So building juggs....

If you're the hard carry and go phase>drums>yasha for early presence, but it becomes clear you're not going to end early, what do you want as a first "big" item?

Aghs is nice but it feels gimmicky if I'm also supposed to be the big right clicker. Bfury is okay, but to me it's only an option if I can a) afford to go afk and b) still outcarry at 6-slots. Is bfly valid that early? Manta since i already have yasha? I'd obviously be looking at BKB at some point too.

Butterfly is probably fine, maybe with a sange first. You could try deso or basher too. Maelstrom can accelerate your farm, for maybe an mkb after into mjolnir (lightning during ult is fun).
aka Lyra; My favourites: July, Stork, Draco, MistrZZZ, TheStc, LastShadow - www.broodwarmaps.net - for all your mapping needs; check my stream: high masters mech terran: twitch.tv/lyrathegreat
CuddlyCuteKitten
Profile Joined January 2004
Sweden2914 Posts
May 25 2013 08:44 GMT
#9095
What happens if rubick steals naga ult, both have it active and walk into eachother?
Unity, support, family, and kneecapping bitches.
Xxazn4lyfe51xX
Profile Joined October 2010
United States976 Posts
May 25 2013 08:55 GMT
#9096
On May 25 2013 17:01 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 25 2013 16:41 Xxazn4lyfe51xX wrote:
It's hard to say that either TA or QoP should win their matchup. QoP is generally regarded as decent competition to TA due to shadowstrike.

I wouldn't skip refraction lvl 1 just to avoid shadowstrike. Rely on your starting regen until you can get your bottle. You need refraction to ensure those last hits though with the bonus damage. You certainly might consider taking meld at level 2 though over psi blades to dodge those melds. If I were the QoP though, that would just prompt me to plant a sentry in mid lane.


TA has higher base damage than QoP (Even with a mantle start you have equal). You don't actually need the refraction to secure last hits.


You have higher base damage, but no range. Maybe it's just me but I like having those refraction charges to ensure that I can go in without getting harassed down super quickly at level 1.
Blitzkrieg0
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States13132 Posts
May 25 2013 09:03 GMT
#9097
On May 25 2013 17:55 Xxazn4lyfe51xX wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 25 2013 17:01 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
On May 25 2013 16:41 Xxazn4lyfe51xX wrote:
It's hard to say that either TA or QoP should win their matchup. QoP is generally regarded as decent competition to TA due to shadowstrike.

I wouldn't skip refraction lvl 1 just to avoid shadowstrike. Rely on your starting regen until you can get your bottle. You need refraction to ensure those last hits though with the bonus damage. You certainly might consider taking meld at level 2 though over psi blades to dodge those melds. If I were the QoP though, that would just prompt me to plant a sentry in mid lane.


TA has higher base damage than QoP (Even with a mantle start you have equal). You don't actually need the refraction to secure last hits.


You have higher base damage, but no range. Maybe it's just me but I like having those refraction charges to ensure that I can go in without getting harassed down super quickly at level 1.


Shadowstrike does the damage of four or five autos. It saves you more damage than taking refraction at level 1.
I'll always be your shadow and veil your eyes from states of ain soph aur.
Xxazn4lyfe51xX
Profile Joined October 2010
United States976 Posts
May 25 2013 17:09 GMT
#9098
You've convinced me =p I retract my previous statements.
evilfatsh1t
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia8943 Posts
May 25 2013 17:18 GMT
#9099
On May 25 2013 16:03 Shootemup. wrote:
I just played a game where I got totally owned TA vs QoP. She started with an Illusion rune and used the illusions to break all my refraction charges and then shadow strike just wrecked me. I have heard people say that TA is supposed to win that matchup, but I don't know how. Is there a different skill build that people usually use? I usually go refraction first, but should I pick up meld to disjoint shadow strikes?

did you not block the creeps? if qop starts with a good rune it will be hard for ta, but she gives up creep blocking for it. even if she got rid of your refraction charges you should have lasted long enough to get a bottle if you had blocked well.
MSGHero
Profile Joined December 2012
United States147 Posts
May 25 2013 18:22 GMT
#9100
On May 25 2013 18:03 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 25 2013 17:55 Xxazn4lyfe51xX wrote:
On May 25 2013 17:01 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
On May 25 2013 16:41 Xxazn4lyfe51xX wrote:
It's hard to say that either TA or QoP should win their matchup. QoP is generally regarded as decent competition to TA due to shadowstrike.

I wouldn't skip refraction lvl 1 just to avoid shadowstrike. Rely on your starting regen until you can get your bottle. You need refraction to ensure those last hits though with the bonus damage. You certainly might consider taking meld at level 2 though over psi blades to dodge those melds. If I were the QoP though, that would just prompt me to plant a sentry in mid lane.


TA has higher base damage than QoP (Even with a mantle start you have equal). You don't actually need the refraction to secure last hits.


You have higher base damage, but no range. Maybe it's just me but I like having those refraction charges to ensure that I can go in without getting harassed down super quickly at level 1.


Shadowstrike does the damage of four or five autos. It saves you more damage than taking refraction at level 1.

A good qop will animation cancel her shadowstrike, so you've wasted a skill point and 50 mana unless she's bad or you're playing scared and have good reaction time. A better qop will have a sentry in lane. QEQW or QEW work fine, just position yourself well to maximize the spill from psi blades.
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