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On May 25 2013 07:50 TheYango wrote:
Blademail sucks except against a few specific heroes.
Generally your itemization goal with off-lane clock is "buy whatever you neef to not die". Blademail isn't an efficient way to do this because of how much it spends on damage/int. Generally you build some combination of Mek, Vit Booster, Platemail, Hood/Pipe, Ghost Scepter. Bracer is gotten as an early HP buffer when you have very little off-lane farm to work with. Aghanim's is a luxury when you can survive long enough to get that 2nd/3rd hook off in the same fight.
A really common build these days that I'm a big fan of is to get a force staff, so you could cog (preferably a melee carry) hero in, force staff out, and let that carry be stuck in cogs for 8 seconds while your team proceeds to clean up the rest of the team.
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On May 25 2013 07:50 TheYango wrote:
Blademail sucks except against a few specific heroes.
Generally your itemization goal with off-lane clock is "buy whatever you neef to not die". Blademail isn't an efficient way to do this because of how much it spends on damage/int. Generally you build some combination of Mek, Vit Booster, Platemail, Hood/Pipe, Ghost Scepter. Bracer is gotten as an early HP buffer when you have very little off-lane farm to work with. Aghanim's is a luxury when you can survive long enough to get that 2nd/3rd hook off in the same fight.
I've seen some clockwerks go for force staff too
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When is it worth getting an orb of venom on veno? I think it's pretty good since it's effectively another level on poison sting of 275 gold.
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Technically it's worth it pretty much every time, since it's cheap and good, but when you're playing a hard support you 1) won't really have enough money, unless you decide to delay wards/Boots upgrade.. which you should not 2) will need the item slot for other stuff, since a support's slots get filled up rather quickly, having to carry both kinds of wards, TP scroll, dust or smoke from time to time etc.
I'd say get it if you're going mid and will gank a lot, other than that you don't really need it anyway.
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United States47024 Posts
On May 25 2013 09:09 SXGCoil wrote:
When is it worth getting an orb of venom on veno? I think it's pretty good since it's effectively another level on poison sting of 275 gold.
From that point of view, a Circlet is a point of stats for 185 gold, and a point of stats isn't worse than a point of poison sting.
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On May 25 2013 09:09 SXGCoil wrote:
When is it worth getting an orb of venom on veno? I think it's pretty good since it's effectively another level on poison sting of 275 gold.
Never? Its just gimmicky.
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On May 25 2013 10:39 Entertaining wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2013 09:09 SXGCoil wrote:
When is it worth getting an orb of venom on veno? I think it's pretty good since it's effectively another level on poison sting of 275 gold. Never? Its just gimmicky.
Considering it was featured in a dignitas article, it can't be THAT gimmicky.
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When is it worth getting an orb of venom on veno? I think it's pretty good since it's effectively another level on poison sting of 275 gold.
Its rare, if you are supporting that 275 gold could go to better things like wards. Probably the only time that an orb would be good on you is if you are solo laneing against a melee hero, but at the same time you could just put levels into poison sting and save the 275 gold. It is also much more effective on melee heroes in general.
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yeah poison sting isnt even leveled over stats so idk why youd want an oov
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So building juggs....
If you're the hard carry and go phase>drums>yasha for early presence, but it becomes clear you're not going to end early, what do you want as a first "big" item?
Aghs is nice but it feels gimmicky if I'm also supposed to be the big right clicker. Bfury is okay, but to me it's only an option if I can a) afford to go afk and b) still outcarry at 6-slots. Is bfly valid that early? Manta since i already have yasha? I'd obviously be looking at BKB at some point too.
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I just played a game where I got totally owned TA vs QoP. She started with an Illusion rune and used the illusions to break all my refraction charges and then shadow strike just wrecked me. I have heard people say that TA is supposed to win that matchup, but I don't know how. Is there a different skill build that people usually use? I usually go refraction first, but should I pick up meld to disjoint shadow strikes?
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It's hard to say that either TA or QoP should win their matchup. QoP is generally regarded as decent competition to TA due to shadowstrike.
I wouldn't skip refraction lvl 1 just to avoid shadowstrike. Rely on your starting regen until you can get your bottle. You need refraction to ensure those last hits though with the bonus damage. You certainly might consider taking meld at level 2 though over psi blades to dodge those melds. If I were the QoP though, that would just prompt me to plant a sentry in mid lane.
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On May 25 2013 16:41 Xxazn4lyfe51xX wrote:
It's hard to say that either TA or QoP should win their matchup. QoP is generally regarded as decent competition to TA due to shadowstrike.
I wouldn't skip refraction lvl 1 just to avoid shadowstrike. Rely on your starting regen until you can get your bottle. You need refraction to ensure those last hits though with the bonus damage. You certainly might consider taking meld at level 2 though over psi blades to dodge those melds. If I were the QoP though, that would just prompt me to plant a sentry in mid lane.
TA has higher base damage than QoP (Even with a mantle start you have equal). You don't actually need the refraction to secure last hits.
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On May 25 2013 14:50 Belisarius wrote:
So building juggs....
If you're the hard carry and go phase>drums>yasha for early presence, but it becomes clear you're not going to end early, what do you want as a first "big" item?
Aghs is nice but it feels gimmicky if I'm also supposed to be the big right clicker. Bfury is okay, but to me it's only an option if I can a) afford to go afk and b) still outcarry at 6-slots. Is bfly valid that early? Manta since i already have yasha? I'd obviously be looking at BKB at some point too.
Butterfly is probably fine, maybe with a sange first. You could try deso or basher too. Maelstrom can accelerate your farm, for maybe an mkb after into mjolnir (lightning during ult is fun).
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What happens if rubick steals naga ult, both have it active and walk into eachother?
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On May 25 2013 17:01 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2013 16:41 Xxazn4lyfe51xX wrote:
It's hard to say that either TA or QoP should win their matchup. QoP is generally regarded as decent competition to TA due to shadowstrike.
I wouldn't skip refraction lvl 1 just to avoid shadowstrike. Rely on your starting regen until you can get your bottle. You need refraction to ensure those last hits though with the bonus damage. You certainly might consider taking meld at level 2 though over psi blades to dodge those melds. If I were the QoP though, that would just prompt me to plant a sentry in mid lane. TA has higher base damage than QoP (Even with a mantle start you have equal). You don't actually need the refraction to secure last hits.
You have higher base damage, but no range. Maybe it's just me but I like having those refraction charges to ensure that I can go in without getting harassed down super quickly at level 1.
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On May 25 2013 17:55 Xxazn4lyfe51xX wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2013 17:01 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On May 25 2013 16:41 Xxazn4lyfe51xX wrote:
It's hard to say that either TA or QoP should win their matchup. QoP is generally regarded as decent competition to TA due to shadowstrike.
I wouldn't skip refraction lvl 1 just to avoid shadowstrike. Rely on your starting regen until you can get your bottle. You need refraction to ensure those last hits though with the bonus damage. You certainly might consider taking meld at level 2 though over psi blades to dodge those melds. If I were the QoP though, that would just prompt me to plant a sentry in mid lane. TA has higher base damage than QoP (Even with a mantle start you have equal). You don't actually need the refraction to secure last hits. You have higher base damage, but no range. Maybe it's just me but I like having those refraction charges to ensure that I can go in without getting harassed down super quickly at level 1.
Shadowstrike does the damage of four or five autos. It saves you more damage than taking refraction at level 1.
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You've convinced me =p I retract my previous statements.
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On May 25 2013 16:03 Shootemup. wrote:I just played a game where I got totally owned TA vs QoP. She started with an Illusion rune and used the illusions to break all my refraction charges and then shadow strike just wrecked me. I have heard people say that TA is supposed to win that matchup, but I don't know how. Is there a different skill build that people usually use? I usually go refraction first, but should I pick up meld to disjoint shadow strikes?
did you not block the creeps? if qop starts with a good rune it will be hard for ta, but she gives up creep blocking for it. even if she got rid of your refraction charges you should have lasted long enough to get a bottle if you had blocked well.
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On May 25 2013 18:03 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2013 17:55 Xxazn4lyfe51xX wrote:On May 25 2013 17:01 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On May 25 2013 16:41 Xxazn4lyfe51xX wrote:
It's hard to say that either TA or QoP should win their matchup. QoP is generally regarded as decent competition to TA due to shadowstrike.
I wouldn't skip refraction lvl 1 just to avoid shadowstrike. Rely on your starting regen until you can get your bottle. You need refraction to ensure those last hits though with the bonus damage. You certainly might consider taking meld at level 2 though over psi blades to dodge those melds. If I were the QoP though, that would just prompt me to plant a sentry in mid lane. TA has higher base damage than QoP (Even with a mantle start you have equal). You don't actually need the refraction to secure last hits. You have higher base damage, but no range. Maybe it's just me but I like having those refraction charges to ensure that I can go in without getting harassed down super quickly at level 1. Shadowstrike does the damage of four or five autos. It saves you more damage than taking refraction at level 1.
A good qop will animation cancel her shadowstrike, so you've wasted a skill point and 50 mana unless she's bad or you're playing scared and have good reaction time. A better qop will have a sentry in lane. QEQW or QEW work fine, just position yourself well to maximize the spill from psi blades.
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EPT
