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On May 22 2013 04:12 Comeh wrote:
What's everyone's opinion on Scepter for Jugg?
I've run the numbers more or less, and I can't really see why the item is being picked up so frequently on him - I feel like, after drums, usually something like Manta or BKB might be more suited for him.
In terms of sustained damage it has no place, but you don't buy it for that. There is special merit to having an invulnerable period that you can't just make a 1:1 comparison for. If you're looking for raw right clicking power you don't build ags.
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Well you do get the extra time spent invulnerable and did your calculations include the prospect of Jugg getting auto-attacks in during omni?
My understanding of mid/late Jugg is that omni is more useful for the invulnerability than the damage.
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I feel like it's more of a mid-game build where you're on a team not as the dedicated 1 position. Jugg is being picked up so often now because people realized how strong his Healing ward is in pushing, teamfighting, etc.
Plus it's a nice alternative. Ganking Jugger is actually effective, with Phase+Drums+PMS. It's a near guaranteed kill when you tower-dive with spin then finish it with Ominslash.
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On May 22 2013 04:22 Logo wrote:
Well you do get the extra time spent invulnerable and did your calculations include the prospect of Jugg getting auto-attacks in during omni?
My understanding of mid/late Jugg is that omni is more useful for the invulnerability than the damage.
Well, its worth noting that you get 3 extra jumps - that is 1.2 more second of invulnerability and to attack (expect 1-2 auto attacks), 637.50 average damage (before reduction - armor totals will be reasonable around this time in the game traditionally. Also non-focused - semi unreliable damage in that you can end up hitting creeps / less valued targets). Worth noting I guess is the Pointbooster +10 stats as well.
I understand the argument for it, but I'm just not convinced its the most effective way to go about building him. I feel like there is a better choice in there. He's a kind of awkward hero to build up from - he has a lot of mediocre item choices to select from.
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On May 22 2013 04:12 Comeh wrote:
What's everyone's opinion on Scepter for Jugg?
I've run the numbers more or less, and I can't really see why the item is being picked up so frequently on him - I feel like, after drums, usually something like Manta or BKB might be more suited for him.
I think it's situational, if you think this extra burst will help to kill their backline. Though the main reason is that omnislash is cool so more hits is more cool.
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On May 22 2013 04:37 Comeh wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2013 04:22 Logo wrote:
Well you do get the extra time spent invulnerable and did your calculations include the prospect of Jugg getting auto-attacks in during omni?
My understanding of mid/late Jugg is that omni is more useful for the invulnerability than the damage. Well, its worth noting that you get 3 extra jumps - that is 1.2 more second of invulnerability and to attack (expect 1-2 auto attacks), 637.50 average damage (before reduction - armor totals will be reasonable around this time in the game traditionally. Also non-focused - semi unreliable damage in that you can end up hitting creeps / less valued targets). Worth noting I guess is the Pointbooster +10 stats as well. I understand the argument for it, but I'm just not convinced its the most effective way to go about building him. I feel like there is a better choice in there. He's a kind of awkward hero to build up from - he has a lot of mediocre item choices to select from.
Makes sense, but you gotta figure he can gain a lot from 1.2s invuln and those extra stats. It seems like a choice that's meant to be somewhere in between building a jugg capable of dealing some damage and one that's survivable and can push. Gotta figure the extra mana is going to help spam abilities as well, especially if you're leveling up healing ward or something.
If you aren't planning on getting a ton of items BKB is probably a waste. You have so much invuln already and when using BKB you're not using either of his actives which is where all your damage is coming from without other items. I'd say if you have other items already (like Yasha, Deso, or something) then yeah Agh's doesn't make much sense.
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United States47024 Posts
On May 22 2013 02:48 Qbek wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2013 02:46 Kmatt wrote:
How important it a blink dagger on Centaur? It's not like his stun is a giant AoE initiation spell, and plowing in via your free ult seems to work just as well. I've never tried using a dagger, since I usually build him as a tanking semicarry, but I can't recall ever really lamenting a lack of teleport on him. in most games you won't even be able to land a stun reliably , even on ulti. Blink is a must unless they are just runnig at you like fools
The other problem with using Ulti for engaging is that as soon as your stun wears off, you have nothing to stick on people/stay in the fight.
If you have Blink, you can hold the ulti to give your team the ability to move and engage AFTER you find the stun, and use the slow in a way that it doesn't overlap the stun, giving it more overall effectiveness.
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Is there any place that anyone knows of where I could post a replay and get some critique/post-game analysis? As in on a regular basis.
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How does buyback price get determined? Is it time, levels, net worth or something regarding all of those?
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On May 22 2013 17:21 Oukka wrote:
How does buyback price get determined? Is it time, levels, net worth or something regarding all of those?
Dota 2 wiki ftw:
Buyback fee = 100 + (Level*Level*1.5) + (GameTime*15), rounded down to a multiplier of 50.
Also worthy of note: Buyback always takes money from reliable gold first.
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Agha on Jugger also reduces the cd btw.
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So I've tried ET, I solo offlane with heavy bottle crowing, I've tried mana boots and treads. But tbh I'm at loss with this heroe, drum seems good on him as I have huge problems farming with him. Landing a stun is really hard either poeple moves away or if I'm too close I'm interrupted. I really would like some tips for him, I remember there were some but I could not find with the search function. I've also checked some guides on internet but they were not really realists imo.
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i dont really like treads or arcanes on elder titan. the arcanes is overkill since he doesnt need the mana that desperately, besides someone else will probably get arcanes in your team anyway. treads is meh. i prefer phase as the boots of choice. drums is really good on him as you said, so you end up with insane movespeed with phase drums, with reasonable dmg after spirit and a decent mana pool. when you throw your spirit to stun, throw it behind your target. when someone first sees a spirit next to them, their initial reaction will always be to run backwards, so you can capitalise on the brief period where they make their mind up about where to run.
farming with him is like farming with any other single target melee, although youll probs end up sacrificing lanes for your carry. just stack jungles or something and farm with spirit nuke and bonus dmg. if you survive every teamfight (and you should be in all of them since youre a massive teamfighter), youll end up with items. in this sense, hes kinda like the hard support.
for items just build utility stuff on him. i personally like building sange -> AC -> halberd. phase,drums and sange give great chasing power when combined with your skills, AC is great for your team and it makes you hit harder too, and halberd for the disarm if we need it.
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Ok thank you very much, I'll try him this way. Concerning skills, I max spirit 2 point in stun 1 point in ulti and max stats after this and put points in aura once I feel a bit tankier. The long sleep is not that amazing as people will most of the time unsleep all opponents. Though I had a game with max stun and I delayed their push for years, team had the whole time to respan.
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You generally want to be really decisive when you throw out your spirit/sleep combo.If you think you can get a good stomp throw the spirit and start channeling asap. Alternatively, you can let your team lead a stun or slow on a target then follow up. Also, due to the nature of his stomp, it's really good at zoning people. Ideally you want to catched them in a position where if they move forward they'll run into your hero (and team), or if they retreat they get caught by the spirit. Alternatively, you can position it to cut off the enemy heroes' allies or cover a retreat for your team.
I think urn is pretty good on ET if you have mana issues and don't want to go arcane.
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On May 22 2013 19:12 evilfatsh1t wrote:
i dont really like treads or arcanes on elder titan. the arcanes is overkill since he doesnt need the mana that desperately, besides someone else will probably get arcanes in your team anyway. treads is meh. i prefer phase as the boots of choice. drums is really good on him as you said, so you end up with insane movespeed with phase drums, with reasonable dmg after spirit and a decent mana pool. when you throw your spirit to stun, throw it behind your target. when someone first sees a spirit next to them, their initial reaction will always be to run backwards, so you can capitalise on the brief period where they make their mind up about where to run.
farming with him is like farming with any other single target melee, although youll probs end up sacrificing lanes for your carry. just stack jungles or something and farm with spirit nuke and bonus dmg. if you survive every teamfight (and you should be in all of them since youre a massive teamfighter), youll end up with items. in this sense, hes kinda like the hard support.
for items just build utility stuff on him. i personally like building sange -> AC -> halberd. phase,drums and sange give great chasing power when combined with your skills, AC is great for your team and it makes you hit harder too, and halberd for the disarm if we need it.
Why phase though? If you get arcanes it means you can throw out more spirits which is more damage and you get move speed from the spirit hitting things anyways. I use it like I use skywraths q. It's a spammable spell. Arcanes definitely aren't overkill on him.
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Phase gives a lot of mobility along with chase power. Remember that spirit gives bonus damage to your hero too. If you hit 2-3 heroes, your auto attacks do a lot of damage. In conjunction with the slow from your ulti, you can dish out a ton of damage. Along the same reasoning of why people get phase on WR, the mobility is good, and your hero has the right click potential to utilize the movement speed and damage it gives.
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I'm setting up a TI3 grand finals party. Does anybody remember what time of day were the finals for TI1 and TI2 or how the final sunday goes down?
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What's the logic around early buybacks? I've seen it quite a few times where some heroes, notably NP will get ganked early (like <6 or <10) and will buyback to go farm again. I can't imagine they're remaking the gold in the 10-20s they would have spent dead, but the XP trade off seems harder to evaluate. Anyways the question is, are those early buybacks every worth it or is it just a scrub move?
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It's probably rage buybacks most of the time. Buybacks like that generally aren't worth it if you don't secure multiple return kills or don't get any clear advantages from it (e.g. Doing rosh, getting rax). Like buying back that early and tp'ing to farm is pretty bad unless ur Alch and there's a giant wave of creeps. On some rare occasions that NP might have a midas that he wants to use, but it's pretty questionable at any rate.
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EPT
