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JoeSaddles
United States344 Posts
On January 18 2009 15:33 Puosu wrote: Shouldn't you be playing AttackZerg right now? Tbh. I'd be far more interested in replays versus good opponents and not random C- iccup players. :/ im only uploading ones vs good players now sry if i uploaded a newb one | ||
Manifesto7
Osaka27156 Posts
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Ganfei
Taiwan1439 Posts
On January 18 2009 15:10 AttackZerg wrote: Actually yes mutas > archons esp on destination in at the third base. You are not a good player so do not ever speak down to me about broodwar. I've known day since before he was good and as he got good, Day was never a world class zerg either. Very good and very smart and over 300 apm since 2004, but not world class. You played in a useast bubble and thought the people you played with were good. Fact is you were never good, and you weren't playing against koreans like the rest of the decent gamers were back in 2003-2004. I'll say it again, there was nobody on earth who could do what we do with mutas now back in 2004. You aren't playing good players , so don't act like you know about the game yet. (P.s the trick to killing 4 archons to to begin killing them as they leave protoss base, by halfway across the map , you can have 1 killed, every time protoss is on a bridge you can bring 1 archon below 30% health without taking a hit, and also using zealots to riochet shots onto them, since mutas will always bounce left if the gauve worm can, a sunken line also makes it easy to get archons to move forward and then back ... but you know all this because your a c- gosu right?) Wanna make a bet game that I can kill your 11 mutas with my 4 archons? To make it more realistic, you also have to continuously be macroing 4 bases On January 18 2009 15:29 JoeSaddles wrote: actually i base my argument off a pro league tournament where they were both pros and 6 pool won vs FE............... Lol what an ignorant post from the guy refuting saddles. 5 pool has been used in TONS of pro games against FE and not ended the game but allowed the Z to get far enough ahead to win. Also, I'm pretty sure if u let saddles practice for a few weeks he'll rape you, attackzerg. I don't like saddle's attitude much, but I like yours even less. | ||
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Puosu
6992 Posts
On January 18 2009 15:48 NoobsOfWrath wrote: Wanna make a bet game that I can kill your 11 mutas with my 4 archons? To make it more realistic, you also have to continuously be macroing 4 bases Lol what an ignorant post from the guy refuting saddles. 5 pool has been used in TONS of pro games against FE and not ended the game but allowed the Z to get far enough ahead to win. Also, I'm pretty sure if u let saddles practice for a few weeks he'll rape you, attackzerg. I don't like saddle's attitude much, but I like yours even less. I hope this does not count as a troll but what I ment was that 4-6 pool is not as good opening at the top level if there is even a slight chance of your opponent not going FE, thus being only very good counter against those who only know the FE build and never do anything else. That is according to my knowledge, I might be wrong but I see it like this. | ||
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WindCalibur
Canada938 Posts
However, I do suggest Joe to see recent progamer games where there is muta micro and more advanced play (if he haven't already). To tell the truth, progamers can probably beat C+ gamers without using hotkey + 10 second headstart. Some programers can reach mid 450 apm consistant. Some protoss like bisu can harrass 3 zerg bases while microing/macroing flawlessly at the same time. Some zerg can go dance with archons, corsairs, and goons, and pick off high templars no problem. Also, some terran can micro 50 marines and medics against lurker defiler ling while consistantly macroing and sniping defilers with vessels. If you see some scrub C ranker do those things I mentioned, let me know. That person is probably some high level korean in disguise and I definitely want to vs some one that good myself  . | ||
KwarK
United States43350 Posts
Sigh. He's not watched a pro vod in years, he shouldn't talk about strategy. | ||
Hot_Bid
Braavos36388 Posts
On January 14 2009 04:14 JoeSaddles wrote: I'm sorry but on ANY map if the zerg knows you're gonna fast expand and wants to stop it he can easily do so. Especially if he knows you're gonna do it every game.... it could be stopped with simply lots of early lings and constant scouting on your expansion site. That's just flat wrong. The fact that you asked about PvZ winrates at Proleague and if it got better since 2004 shows how unfamiliar you are with the current builds. It's NOT easy even if you know it's coming, and on most modern maps FE is very, very safe, and not easy to stop. I mean, let's give the Korean scene a bit of credit and figure that professional Ps know what they are doing, they wouldn't expo so much PvZ if it could be "easily stopped". That's just ridiculous. On January 18 2009 14:32 JoeSaddles wrote: modern mutalisk micro to me is as strong as GOOD zergs used to do it back in the day. It just seems that now even the average and above average zergs are microing their mutas very well, as before it was only the best zergs who were microing them that well. This is also just wrong, muta micro has improved leaps and bounds since 2004 because I don't think grouping with overlord or larvae was even invented then. It's vastly, vastly different for TvZ ever since mutas became really ridiculous around 2007ish. Before then, only July was doing it, after, just about everyone can. I don't know if you play TvZ but saying modern micro is as strong as good zergs used to do back in 2004 is nuts, just watch the VODs, its totally different. Look, it's just not a good idea to try to be authoritative about strategy when its just completely different now. The competition has gotten stronger (not weaker like you said) and thus it makes sense that the strategies nowadays are better than before. Again, give the Korean proscene some credit (all their strategies filter down through VODs to ICC), there's no way all of them are wrong and you are right about this pretty basic stuff. | ||
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Sentenal
United States12398 Posts
On January 18 2009 15:28 JoeSaddles wrote: have the protoss vs zerg overall statistics really gone up that much since FE??? whats the win rate for protoss vs zerg overall in pro league?? I don't know what the current win rate is in proleauge, but I do know in recent history, Zergs have been getting demolished, and Protoss has been doing very well. Like the last MSL, the top 4 players were all Protoss. There was only 1 Zerg in the top 8 of the last OSL, and all of the Zergs got knocked out of GOM in Ro16. But when the Forge FE became standard PvZ, people went from calling PvZ imba/impossible, to calling Protoss the easy race. | ||
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a-game
Canada5085 Posts
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Avidkeystamper
United States8556 Posts
On January 18 2009 16:00 Hot_Bid wrote: This is also just wrong, muta micro has improved leaps and bounds since 2004 because I don't think grouping with overlord or larvae was even invented then. It's vastly, vastly different for TvZ ever since mutas became really ridiculous around 2007ish. Before then, only July was doing it, after, just about everyone can. I don't know if you play TvZ but saying modern micro is as strong as good zergs used to do back in 2004 is nuts, just watch the VODs, its totally different. He said that the muta micro of average zergs nowadays is the same as the GOOD zergs from before. I don't see how you interpreted what you think he said. | ||
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Jonoman92
United States9105 Posts
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JoeSaddles
United States344 Posts
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zer0das
United States8519 Posts
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JoeSaddles
United States344 Posts
I was wrong when I made that statement 4 days ago, didn't realize how big FE has become, it is now going to be the staple of my PvZ lol =p | ||
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JoeSaddles
United States344 Posts
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Puosu
6992 Posts
On January 18 2009 16:15 JoeSaddles wrote: and yah i agree with u guys completely that FE is the new best build for most maps. nowadays the starting spots are farther on most maps than they used to be... remember the days of p2h luna LT etc? nowadays the spots are farther, so FE is obviously going to work better. I was wrong when I made that statement 4 days ago, didn't realize how big FE has become, it is now going to be the staple of my PvZ lol =p Hm, I actually think most maps are now closer positions than Luna/LT and so on. Destination for example, aren't the spots awful close compared? Again I might be terribly wrong here, just picturing the maps in my mind gives me that idea. Medusa/Colosseum also I'd say is about the same as LT or Luna, hm.. | ||
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Luddite
United States2315 Posts
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JoeSaddles
United States344 Posts
On January 18 2009 14:09 CDRdude wrote: What do you think about modern mutalisk micro? Have you tried offracing, to see what other new strats are like from different perspectives? and to answer the second part yah ive tried a few games as mech terran vs zerg, couldn't resist trying it lol and I always mix in a bunch of zvp with my pvp on the ladder. PvP is the one matchup I don't have questions about lol, it hasn't changed a bit. | ||
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Sentenal
United States12398 Posts
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JoeSaddles
United States344 Posts
On January 18 2009 16:54 Luddite wrote: Saddles, when you used to play there was no LAN latency for online play, right? How do you think that has affected the game? I know that I personally started to appreciate the game a lot more after I started playing on ICCUP, since there was no one nearby that I could LAN with. I honestly haven't noticed a huge difference with LAN latency it just feels like a lag free game to me. but then again i play mostly protoss which is the easiest race to micro, I haven't checked yet if it makes a big difference with zerg and T | ||
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