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OK so I'm on my 4'th day back, having lots of fun coming back to BW. I think within another 10-15 days of practice I'll definitely keep improving.
So far I've played some pretty amazing players who do not belong at C and C- rank, but i guess they have just not ranked up yet. Here are a few I played and had good games against but LOST....
http://www.iccup.com/gamingprofile/davidjoy_cn.html 45-2 beat me twice in very very close PvT games. I probably should have won these games as I had the advantage early in both games, but I failed =p
http://www.iccup.com/gamingprofile/s2.practice.html around 20-0, pretty sure I lost PvZ
http://www.iccup.com/gamingprofile/klldw.html around 55-19 dont remember exact game
Heres a few decent players I've played against and won, who also belong higher than C rank.
http://www.iccup.com/gamingprofile/vsofra.html 60-20 I won a 13 minute PvZ. probably my best game of the last 4 days. or at least against the best competition.
http://www.iccup.com/gamingprofile/ilove.duke.html some random 25-2 american, beat him in a 12 minute game, called me a newb and said no re >_<
like 4 or 5 other 45-19 type koreans, who would prob max out around b- or so.
My experience on ICCUP so far has been very fun. Most of my oldschool strategies are still effective on certain maps, however on these new maps I have had to adapt. I'm learning FE PVZ and trying to perfect it.
I'm still lost in PvT, it's my worst matchup and honestly I'm considering learning how to properly ZvT -_-;
I'm still very strong at PvP, tho PvP is prob the one matchup that has NOT changed much at all since I left.
these are just a few of my experiences so far with some good players, ive played many more games and am still shaking the rust off, so far so good. Reps available for all the above games if anyones interested.
thanks guys and good luck in all games.!!!
http://img242.imageshack.us/my.php?image=24848hk3.jpg
edited: to add REPS
reps http://rapidshare.com/files/185248762/vso_pvz_1.rep.html The PvZ against the 62-20 B zerg.
A few things to note about the replay ----- the 2 gate pressure is just designed to force him to build drones instead of lings early, while my economy continues to grow even while massing zeals.
I then QUICKLY get +1 weapons and speed zeals, while teching to sairs as scout.When you see that he has mutas coming for sure it is a very good idea to build 4-5 more corsairs. in groups of 4+ they can kill scourges before they even get to them and help tons vs his mutas. My mass zeals in the beginning were simply meant to slow down his tech and economy, and honestly they couldve been used a lot better but I still pulled it off even with my rusty micro and rusty timing.
Once you have +1 weapons and speed, zealots are a completely different unit, they kill zerglings in 1 less shot, and also HYDRAS in 1 less shot, making them much much more deadly to zerg..
http://rapidshare.com/files/185251761/sang_pvz1.rep.html
IMO this is a very good replay for teaching non FE PvZ. 95% of it depends on what your scout probe sees. I saw he was making early hydralisks with no other tech or economy. That means he is going to try to kill you very early. so I build cannon at ramp. I scouted his lair building late and low amount of sunkens, so I knew it was time for +1weapon speed zeals, knew he would have mostly zergling/hydra army, which +1 speed zeals absolutely walks over. By the time his lurkers were finished, it was too late, obs were on the way as well. perhaps one of the best games I've played so far from a strategy/mental standpoint. Not a very competitive game from his side, but I think I played pretty well in it
http://rapidshare.com/files/185253029/livesay_pvt1.rep.html
This strat has served me since 03' and it's still serving me today. One thing to mention off the bat is that it ONLY WORKS IF TERRAN DOES NOT WALL. you need to scout them and if you see wall, abandon this strategy and play normal game.... if no wall however, this strat is extremely deadly even against very good terrans. Watch the build order closely, you will see how aggressive it is, low probes all goons, range as SOON as cyb core finishes, 2 more goons building as soon as first goon finishes, you sacrifice early economy in order to have the fastest possible 5 ranged goons, which then without a wall you can seriously mess him up with, especially with 2 more on the way every minute. Do not knock this build until you try it against terrans who don't wall. Another thing terran can do to stop it is build 6-7 marines but if he does this his tanks will be much slower... you can just go reaver and have an advantage
These are the only decent ones I have on this comp atm because I played at my dad's house today. When I go back to my main comp (tomorrow) I will upload some good ones, and i'll even upload my old games vs nony if anyones interested, have like 75+ pvps with him... and PvP is the one matchup that has not changed much since 04'
thanks guys good luck to all playing.Last edit: 2009-01-18 14:27:00
edited: adding more reps
Coldheart C, Korean, 43-15
SaddleS C, USA, 41-20 ( i know my record sux cut me some slack it's my 4'th day back)
Not much to say about this one. I do a build that is designed just to force him to build drones, and it kills him. I guess my zealot vs zergling/drone/sunken micro is good, I have practiced that specific type of micro more than any kind... don't know what else to say, he is obviously not a newb. http://rapidshare.com/files/185270563/coldheartpvz1.rep
NrT.FlaF 15-1 D+ Romania
Saddles
Same as above, I do a build that is designed only to put pressure on them early, and it ends up winning outright. I know these are not complete newb players, so I believe my zealot vs ling micro can still be good in today's game, with a few weeks of practicing it'll be at a high level I think (again it's only meant to force them to build LINGS instead of drones, pro zergs will never die to it off the bat, instead it slows their economy a lot, like it did vs the 60-20 zerg) http://rapidshare.com/files/185275054/nrtpvz1.rep.html
my only other game vs a good player today was vs a 26-16 korean terran, who i defeated with the same strat as the other terran who didn't wall. rest are all like 25-22 or something, so I won't bother posting replays vs newbs.
sry for the short reps, soon I will have better reps to post.
thanks for taking the time to read this if you did and hope you guys have good luck in ALL games.
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sry for the old ass picture its from '04 as well i was small
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yes you should obviously post the replays, even good players are susceptable to cheese
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On January 18 2009 13:31 AlphaxOmega wrote:
why multiple threads?
bc he posted in wrong forum.
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I haven't been around here for more than about a year, and was just wondering how much PvT has changed since you played it before?
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that pic is me at 17 . i now look the same except 30 pounds heavier and not as scrawny..., now 22 years old, sry was the only picture i could find on google lol, not at my comp right now
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On January 18 2009 13:43 JoeSaddles wrote:
that pic is me at 17 im now look the same except 40 pounds heavier, now 22, sry was the only picture i could find on google lol, not at my comp right now
do you have some kind of mental disorder?
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On January 18 2009 13:44 food wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2009 13:43 JoeSaddles wrote:
that pic is me at 17 im now look the same except 40 pounds heavier, now 22 yrs old, sry was the only picture i could find on google lol, not at my comp right now do you have some kind of mental disorder?
YES !! I'm addicted to gaming =(
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Why so many assholes in this thread?
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Lol that davidjoy guy is 45-2?
Wow...I was so pissed because I lost a game to him where I had a huge lead early on but he took a hidden expo and managed to come back. Was so annoying.
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SaddleS you should post some reps, it would really help this thread since your words aren't really backing up your stats.
and I agree, SaddleS is being really gm in the face of all this assholery. Lighten up guys.
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On January 18 2009 13:43 KnightOfNi wrote:
I haven't been around here for more than about a year, and was just wondering how much PvT has changed since you played it before?
PvT is actually one of the matchups that hasn't changed as much as the others... It seems that most pros nowadays play a safe, take the map type style. You use a roaming army to harrass their pushes/ expansions, roaming goons to take care of vulture groups, and always be ready to flank effectively in case the terran tries to push out. It's basically about balancing between expansions and having enough army to hold off his push.
After you have eco set up the absolute number 1 most important thing is ARBITERS. They were used heavily back in 04' as well tho so I can't say thats changed much.
Some key stasis/recall and you can give terran fits, stasis 12 of their tanks and all of a sudden your land army can walk over theirs, not to mention it is annoying for the terran to have to keep scanning your cloaked units in every battle, many times you will get free shots in.
that's just like 1% of what I could type about PvT, but it's still about balancing expansions/army and then using your arbiters effectively.
edited for *theirs instead of theres
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What do you think about modern mutalisk micro? Have you tried offracing, to see what other new strats are like from different perspectives?
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you had good games against them and you went 0-2 0-1 0-3 0-2 all 7-9 minute games
dont compare yourself to decent players just yet, you are probably better then me but you are still garbage, the people you've listed raped the shit out of you and you talking bout "good games" Get down to Earth, no one believe the bs you write
I'd be the first person to cheer you up if you break B- but so far you havent won any game vs a decent opponent, even if you did it probably was some 2 gate all in bullshit
replays anyways, ill watch a few just to see where you at right now
edit: i did play vsofra, you said "won a 13 minute pvz" but you played 2 games and went 1-1 vs him, and that guy always asking for re so you basically denied him after winning some timing attack type of game. Replays asap.
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Braavos36375 Posts
I actually approve of this kinda and his blog, this is more concrete and glad you are changing your perspective a bit on ICCup. Regardless, B is very hard and far away, good luck.
food tone it down, he isn't insulting anyone or making wild comments, I see his thoughts here as pretty self-aware and accurate (even though I might disagree about him getting to B). He posted reps and even took the time to describe them, it's pretty good. Coming in and calling him "garbage" is stupid and a quick way to get banned, consider yourself warned.
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http://rapidshare.com/files/185248762/vso_pvz_1.rep.html The PvZ against the 62-20 B zerg.
A few things to note about the replay ----- the 2 gate pressure is just designed to force him to build drones instead of lings early, while my economy continues to grow even while massing zeals.
I then QUICKLY get +1 weapons and speed zeals, while teching to sairs as scout. When you see that he has mutas coming for sure it is a very good idea to build 4-5 more corsairs. in groups of 4+ they can kill scourges before they even get to them and help tons vs his mutas. My mass zeals in the beginning were simply meant to slow down his tech and economy, and honestly they couldve been used a lot better but I still pulled it off even with my rusty micro and rusty timing.
Once you have +1 weapons and speed, zealots are a completely different unit, they kill zerglings in 1 less shot, and also HYDRAS in 1 less shot, making them much much more deadly to zerg..
http://rapidshare.com/files/185251761/sang_pvz1.rep.html
IMO this is a very good replay for teaching how to play PvZ. 95% of it depends on what your scout probe sees. I saw he was making early hydralisks with no other tech or economy. That means he is going to try to kill you early... cannon on your ramp or you can easily die to it if the zerg times it right.,... I then scouted his lair building late, so I knew it was time for +1weapon speed zeals, knew he would have mostly zergling/hydra army, which +1 speed zeals absolutely walks over. By the time his lurkers were finished, it was too late, obs were on the way as well. perhaps one of the best games I've played so far from a strategy/mental standpoint.
http://rapidshare.com/files/185253029/livesay_pvt1.rep.html
This strat has served me since 03' and it's still serving me today. One thing to mention off the bat is that it ONLY WORKS IF TERRAN DOES NOT WALL. you need to scout them and if you see wall, abandon this strategy and play normal game.... if no wall however, this strat is extremely deadly even against very good terrans. Watch the build order closely, you will see how aggressive it is, low probes all goons, range as SOON as cyb core finishes, 2 more goons building as soon as first goon finishes, you sacrifice early economy in order to have the fastest possible 5 ranged goons, which then without a wall you can seriously mess him up with, especially with 2 more on the way every minute.
These are the only ones I have on this comp atm because I played at my dad's house today. When I go back to my main comp (tomorrow) I will upload some good ones, and i'll even upload my old games vs nony or other oldschoolers if anyones interested, me and nony played over 50+ games and I have at least 20-30 PvP win reps vs him, as well as many other off race matchups and etc.
They are still relevant today, PvP has not changed that much and we were both very good PvP players.
thanks guys good luck to all playing.
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Saddles...are you a legend of channel x17?
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ICCUP this late is ridiculously easy, especially in your particular timezone where most Koreans wont be on. If you think the competition is pretty strong now just you wait until the beginning of the next season.
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On January 18 2009 14:26 KrAzYfoOL wrote:
ICCUP this late is ridiculously easy, especially in your particular timezone where most Koreans wont be on. If you think the competition is pretty strong now just you wait until the beginning of the next season.
so far ive played 90% of my games between 1:00 am - 10:00 am in the middle of the night, playing mostly koreans, chinese, and europeans.
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On January 18 2009 14:24 Hot_Bid wrote:
I actually approve of this kinda and his blog, this is more concrete and glad you are changing your perspective a bit on ICCup. Regardless, B is very hard and far away, good luck.
food tone it down, he isn't insulting anyone or making wild comments, I see his thoughts here as pretty self-aware and accurate (even though I might disagree about him getting to B). He posted reps and even took the time to describe them, it's pretty good. Coming in and calling him "garbage" is stupid and a quick way to get banned, consider yourself warned.
i dont mean garbage in a bad way believe it or not, i said he is better then me so im being really critical
he listed some good players who are possibly close to semi-pro level
i am not trying to insult him in any way, im sure he understands it( i used to play east/nooks back in the day, its how the conversation goes normally)
guess my post history isn't attractive, i will have to shut up
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I think listing all the players you have played against that are higher than the rank you are currently playing at isn't really helping you, that is how it is for everyone you know, it's not like people with good records seek you out. Oh and that K_mass dude is not B in any recent iccup season, I can guarantee it. I say he is C max. maybe he could reach C+ if he dodged koreans but he is not even close to B.
Otherwise I got to admit you reached C faster than i would have thought. GL on climbing higher, if you manage to stabilize on C+ I would be impressed even though you said you would reach B.
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oh ok..you meant garbage in a good way
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On January 18 2009 14:09 CDRdude wrote:
What do you think about modern mutalisk micro? Have you tried offracing, to see what other new strats are like from different perspectives?
modern mutalisk micro to me is as strong as GOOD zergs used to do it back in the day.
It just seems that now even the average and above average zergs are microing their mutas very well, as before it was only the best zergs who were microing them that well.
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On January 18 2009 14:32 JoeSaddles wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2009 14:09 CDRdude wrote:
What do you think about modern mutalisk micro? Have you tried offracing, to see what other new strats are like from different perspectives? modern mutalisk micro to me is as strong as GOOD zergs used to do it back in the day. It just seems that now even the average and above average zergs are microing their mutas very well, as before it was only the best zergs who were microing them that well.
Last night I killed 4 archons with 11 muta, to stop a 4 archon/zealot timing push, and win the game. Nobody on earth was doing that in 04 sorry, and I'm not even dope at it. Your just playing at the levels that nobody cares about .... move up the rank and you'll see whats mutas are like 
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Lol a clinic on how to play PvZ?
Dude you really shouldn't be giving clinics on how to play PvZ 3 days after telling everyone FE was stupid and impossible to pull off
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On January 18 2009 14:54 -orb- wrote:
Lol a clinic on how to play PvZ?
Dude you really shouldn't be giving clinics on how to play PvZ 3 days after telling everyone FE was stupid and impossible to pull off
heh,
I like how instead of uploading his whole replay pack like most real gamers would, he picks select ones and gives us his 'opinions' on strategy .... at c- =(.
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heh
i like how you missed the part where he says those are the only games h has on his dad's comp and how he'll upload more when he gets back to his main comp
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On January 18 2009 14:57 whatusername wrote:
heh
i like how you missed the part where he says those are the only games h has on his dad's comp and how he'll upload more when he gets back to his main comp
I have a folder called autoreplay, that I uploaded when I was asked too.
Its not too hard, it actually takes longer to give detailed explainations for each replay....
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On January 18 2009 14:50 AttackZerg wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2009 14:32 JoeSaddles wrote:On January 18 2009 14:09 CDRdude wrote:
What do you think about modern mutalisk micro? Have you tried offracing, to see what other new strats are like from different perspectives? modern mutalisk micro to me is as strong as GOOD zergs used to do it back in the day. It just seems that now even the average and above average zergs are microing their mutas very well, as before it was only the best zergs who were microing them that well. Last night I killed 4 archons with 11 muta, to stop a 4 archon/zealot timing push, and win the game. Nobody on earth was doing that in 04 sorry, and I'm not even dope at it. Your just playing at the levels that nobody cares about .... move up the rank and you'll see whats mutas are like
this kind of response makes no sense...
1. there is no way 11 mutas would ever beat 4 archons if the protoss has half a brain and knows how to micro them... 2 archons yah, but not 4.
2. i've seen some very good zerg micro in my day in lots of live games, rs.day[9] had insane micro for ALL his units, and satanik among others had really really good muta micro.... can't remember exactly which zerg I played had the best muta micro but I remember playing zergs who were absolutely ridiculous with them
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On January 18 2009 14:54 -orb- wrote:
Lol a clinic on how to play PvZ?
Dude you really shouldn't be giving clinics on how to play PvZ 3 days after telling everyone FE was stupid and impossible to pull off
I never said anything close to that.. I said if zerg knows 100% chance it's coming he has a very good chance to beat it.. which is true.
In the finals of a recent tourney the pro P FE'd, the pro Z 6 pooled cuz he knew it was coming, and crippled him enough to WIN the game. that's all i said was possible....
please dont turn the thread into a flame fest anyway, im just here to post reps and talk strategy about brood war, not argue.
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what really makes FE that dangerous is that if you know the zerg is only gonna try to stop it by 6 pool, which can indeed stop it, you just mix it up and 9/10 gate one game, and it's a free win if the zerg did end up 6 pooling. and it's not a bad opening even if he didn't.
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oh and about your mentioning of hand-speed JoeSaddles, it's not uncommon for Koreans to have 300apm nowdays and in fact quite a number of non-Koreans have 300+apm too. (castro, paranoid and fenix are the most known 300~ apm players)
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On January 18 2009 15:01 JoeSaddles wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2009 14:50 AttackZerg wrote:On January 18 2009 14:32 JoeSaddles wrote:On January 18 2009 14:09 CDRdude wrote:
What do you think about modern mutalisk micro? Have you tried offracing, to see what other new strats are like from different perspectives? modern mutalisk micro to me is as strong as GOOD zergs used to do it back in the day. It just seems that now even the average and above average zergs are microing their mutas very well, as before it was only the best zergs who were microing them that well. Last night I killed 4 archons with 11 muta, to stop a 4 archon/zealot timing push, and win the game. Nobody on earth was doing that in 04 sorry, and I'm not even dope at it. Your just playing at the levels that nobody cares about .... move up the rank and you'll see whats mutas are like this kind of response makes no sense... 1. there is no way 11 mutas would ever beat 4 archons if the protoss has half a brain and knows how to micro them... 2 archons yah, but not 4. 2. i've seen some very good zerg micro in my day in LIVE games, rs.day[9] had insane micro for ALL his units, definitely comparable.
Actually yes mutas > archons esp on destination in at the third base.
You are not a good player so do not ever speak down to me about broodwar.
I've known day since before he was good and as he got good, Day was never a world class zerg either. Very good and very smart and over 300 apm since 2004, but not world class.
You played in a useast bubble and thought the people you played with were good. Fact is you were never good, and you weren't playing against koreans like the rest of the decent gamers were back in 2003-2004.
I'll say it again, there was nobody on earth who could do what we do with mutas now back in 2004.
You aren't playing good players , so don't act like you know about the game yet.
(P.s the trick to killing 4 archons to to begin killing them as they leave protoss base, by halfway across the map , you can have 1 killed, every time protoss is on a bridge you can bring 1 archon below 30% health without taking a hit, and also using zealots to riochet shots onto them, since mutas will always bounce left if the gauve worm can, a sunken line also makes it easy to get archons to move forward and then back ... but you know all this because your a c- gosu right?)
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Osaka27149 Posts
Jesus.
Yes, Saddles came in and said some stupid shit the other day. However, he has come back, made a blog with the title that THE COMPETITION IS PRETTY STRONG and made an effort to talk about his progress.
Can you guys get off his fucking back?
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On January 18 2009 15:10 AttackZerg wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2009 15:01 JoeSaddles wrote:On January 18 2009 14:50 AttackZerg wrote:On January 18 2009 14:32 JoeSaddles wrote:On January 18 2009 14:09 CDRdude wrote:
What do you think about modern mutalisk micro? Have you tried offracing, to see what other new strats are like from different perspectives? modern mutalisk micro to me is as strong as GOOD zergs used to do it back in the day. It just seems that now even the average and above average zergs are microing their mutas very well, as before it was only the best zergs who were microing them that well. Last night I killed 4 archons with 11 muta, to stop a 4 archon/zealot timing push, and win the game. Nobody on earth was doing that in 04 sorry, and I'm not even dope at it. Your just playing at the levels that nobody cares about .... move up the rank and you'll see whats mutas are like this kind of response makes no sense... 1. there is no way 11 mutas would ever beat 4 archons if the protoss has half a brain and knows how to micro them... 2 archons yah, but not 4. 2. i've seen some very good zerg micro in my day in LIVE games, rs.day[9] had insane micro for ALL his units, definitely comparable. Actually yes mutas > archons esp on destination in at the third base. You are not a good player so do not ever speak down to me about broodwar. I've known day since before he was good and as he got good, Day was never a world class zerg either. Very good and very smart and over 300 apm since 2004, but not world class. You played in a useast bubble and thought the people you played with were good. Fact is you were never good, and you weren't playing against koreans like the rest of the decent gamers were back in 2003-2004. I'll say it again, there was nobody on earth who could do what we do with mutas now back in 2004. You aren't playing good players , so don't act like you know about the game yet. (P.s the trick to killing 4 archons to to begin killing them as they leave protoss base, by halfway across the map , you can have 1 killed, every time protoss is on a bridge you can bring 1 archon below 30% health without taking a hit, and also using zealots to riochet shots onto them, since mutas will always bounce left if the gauve worm can, a sunken line also makes it easy to get archons to move forward and then back ... but you know all this because your a c- gosu right?)
This to me is just an insane rant from someone who is mad that i just proved them wrong, it'd be way too easy to pick apart your thread again.... USEast bubble? Most of my time was on europe. foreigners playing koreans in 03 and 04? hahahah.... most of the competition back then was on ladders (wgtour, pgtour, gamei back in the day) and tournmanets (WCG, teamliquid, gosugamers, etc) offline and online, none of the top foreigners besides maybe 2-3 were ever playing with the pro koreans daily...
but seriously don't wanna get this thread deleted so stop arguing....
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I am in op tot) ... Lets play bo5 ranked guys, I'll just show you and then post the reps here.
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Wow, great job man. And nice to see the self-awareness after that initial wave of arrogance and ignorance. Keep it up!  Good luck!
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Yeah a rep of that would be cool attackzerg, not that I doubt you.  It is doable by all means, but really really hard if they were all at full health.
The PvZ reps where kinda fun to watch. The second zerg player was absolutely horrible though, and it shows in his stats as well. Hope you upload all the reps against the gamers in the OP. I think most of us prefer that instead of watching an autorep folder from D to C- level.
One thing about the first PvZ game, you should IMO move out at 5 zeals two at ramp, instead of 7. I think that is standard too, I'm not a protossplayer though so I might be wrong. When you wait for 7 you give him time to get up a sunken while moving at 5 gets you there before he has time to get up a sunken, if he droned to much you will be able to kill/punish him way easier, that game you only managed to hurt him because he fucked up bigtime and let you into his main. gj winning anyhow though, that zerg is good.
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On January 18 2009 15:22 Supah wrote:Yeah a rep of that would be cool attackzerg, not that I doubt you. It is doable by all means, but really really hard if they were all at full health. The PvZ reps where kinda fun to watch. The second zerg player was absolutely horrible though, and it shows in his stats as well. Hope you upload all the reps against the gamers in the OP. I think most of us prefer that instead of watching an autorep folder from D to C- level. One thing about the first PvZ game, you should IMO move out at 5 zeals two at ramp, instead of 7. I think that is standard too, I'm not a protossplayer though so I might be wrong. When you wait for 7 you give him time to get up a sunken while moving at 5 gets you there before he has time to get up a sunken, if he droned to much you will be able to kill/punish him way easier, that game you only managed to hurt him because he fucked up bigtime and let you into his main. gj winning anyhow though, that zerg is good.
I used to move out with 5 but it seems lately a lot of zergs like to mass speedlings in early game... maybe it's just a trend but i've seen 5 zeals seems to be too small of a force to really threaten zerg who gets speed early, instead you end up losing your zealots, while 7 needs lots of zerglings to beat even with speed, and you can do things like run into their base after you kill zerglings and only sunkens are left.
still though sometimes 5 is probably the better choice, i guess it depends on how many zerglings u see with ur scout
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On January 18 2009 15:04 JoeSaddles wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2009 14:54 -orb- wrote:
Lol a clinic on how to play PvZ?
Dude you really shouldn't be giving clinics on how to play PvZ 3 days after telling everyone FE was stupid and impossible to pull off I never said anything close to that.. I said if zerg knows 100% chance it's coming he has a very good chance to beat it.. which is true. In the finals of a recent tourney the pro P FE'd, the pro Z 6 pooled cuz he knew it was coming, and crippled him enough to WIN the game. that's all i said was possible.... please dont turn the thread into a flame fest anyway, im just here to post reps and talk strategy about brood war, not argue.
okay, here's me talking about brood war strategy.
pvz FE build has become a standard opener. you're basically saying that the korean progamers are doing it wrong. most zerg players expect the FE build, but no way does he have a good chance to beat it. what you said is NOT true.
i think you're mistaken for 13/14 nexus.
please, gain some more knowledge before you make such a statement.
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On January 18 2009 15:27 CapO wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2009 15:04 JoeSaddles wrote:On January 18 2009 14:54 -orb- wrote:
Lol a clinic on how to play PvZ?
Dude you really shouldn't be giving clinics on how to play PvZ 3 days after telling everyone FE was stupid and impossible to pull off I never said anything close to that.. I said if zerg knows 100% chance it's coming he has a very good chance to beat it.. which is true. In the finals of a recent tourney the pro P FE'd, the pro Z 6 pooled cuz he knew it was coming, and crippled him enough to WIN the game. that's all i said was possible.... please dont turn the thread into a flame fest anyway, im just here to post reps and talk strategy about brood war, not argue. okay, here's me talking about brood war strategy. pvz FE build has become a standard opener. you're basically saying that the korean progamers are doing it wrong. most zerg players expect the FE build, but no way does he have a good chance to beat it. what you said is NOT true. i think you're mistaken for 13/14 nexus. please, gain some more knowledge before you make such a statement.
have the protoss vs zerg overall statistics really gone up that much since FE??? whats the win rate for protoss vs zerg overall in pro league??
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On January 18 2009 15:27 CapO wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2009 15:04 JoeSaddles wrote:On January 18 2009 14:54 -orb- wrote:
Lol a clinic on how to play PvZ?
Dude you really shouldn't be giving clinics on how to play PvZ 3 days after telling everyone FE was stupid and impossible to pull off I never said anything close to that.. I said if zerg knows 100% chance it's coming he has a very good chance to beat it.. which is true. In the finals of a recent tourney the pro P FE'd, the pro Z 6 pooled cuz he knew it was coming, and crippled him enough to WIN the game. that's all i said was possible.... please dont turn the thread into a flame fest anyway, im just here to post reps and talk strategy about brood war, not argue. okay, here's me talking about brood war strategy. pvz FE build has become a standard opener. you're basically saying that the korean progamers are doing it wrong. most zerg players expect the FE build, but no way does he have a good chance to beat it. what you said is NOT true. i think you're mistaken for 13/14 nexus. please, gain some more knowledge before you make such a statement.
He bases his argument in that a 4-6 pool CAN end the game there if protoss fucks up, its not a real counter at all for top level playing but something you can do to a newbie who knows nothing put FE.
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Archon picking with mutalisk is definitely doable. I have seen some progamers pick off archons quite effectively without getting hit. (and destination is a really good map to do it)
However in a field, 4 archons > 11 mutas no matter what micro u do. In a bridge/cliff map, its doable.
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On January 18 2009 15:28 Puosu wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2009 15:27 CapO wrote:On January 18 2009 15:04 JoeSaddles wrote:On January 18 2009 14:54 -orb- wrote:
Lol a clinic on how to play PvZ?
Dude you really shouldn't be giving clinics on how to play PvZ 3 days after telling everyone FE was stupid and impossible to pull off I never said anything close to that.. I said if zerg knows 100% chance it's coming he has a very good chance to beat it.. which is true. In the finals of a recent tourney the pro P FE'd, the pro Z 6 pooled cuz he knew it was coming, and crippled him enough to WIN the game. that's all i said was possible.... please dont turn the thread into a flame fest anyway, im just here to post reps and talk strategy about brood war, not argue. okay, here's me talking about brood war strategy. pvz FE build has become a standard opener. you're basically saying that the korean progamers are doing it wrong. most zerg players expect the FE build, but no way does he have a good chance to beat it. what you said is NOT true. i think you're mistaken for 13/14 nexus. please, gain some more knowledge before you make such a statement. He bases his argument in that a 4-6 pool CAN end the game there if protoss fucks up, its not a real counter at all for top level playing but something you can do to a newbie who knows nothing put FE.
actually i base my argument off a pro league tournament where they were both pros and 6 pool won vs FE...............
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On January 18 2009 15:29 JoeSaddles wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2009 15:28 Puosu wrote:On January 18 2009 15:27 CapO wrote:On January 18 2009 15:04 JoeSaddles wrote:On January 18 2009 14:54 -orb- wrote:
Lol a clinic on how to play PvZ?
Dude you really shouldn't be giving clinics on how to play PvZ 3 days after telling everyone FE was stupid and impossible to pull off I never said anything close to that.. I said if zerg knows 100% chance it's coming he has a very good chance to beat it.. which is true. In the finals of a recent tourney the pro P FE'd, the pro Z 6 pooled cuz he knew it was coming, and crippled him enough to WIN the game. that's all i said was possible.... please dont turn the thread into a flame fest anyway, im just here to post reps and talk strategy about brood war, not argue. okay, here's me talking about brood war strategy. pvz FE build has become a standard opener. you're basically saying that the korean progamers are doing it wrong. most zerg players expect the FE build, but no way does he have a good chance to beat it. what you said is NOT true. i think you're mistaken for 13/14 nexus. please, gain some more knowledge before you make such a statement. He bases his argument in that a 4-6 pool CAN end the game there if protoss fucks up, its not a real counter at all for top level playing but something you can do to a newbie who knows nothing put FE. actually i base my argument off a pro league tournament where they were both pros and 6 pool won vs FE...............
Yeah so because it happened once it works always?
no..?
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i go pvz FE build and, u go 6 pool.
bo7??
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one sec uploading a few more reps
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On January 18 2009 15:33 JoeSaddles wrote:
one sec uploading a few more reps
Shouldn't you be playing AttackZerg right now?
Tbh. I'd be far more interested in replays versus good opponents and not random C- iccup players. :/
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please stop turning this into a flame war, you proved your point, FE is a standard build.
I proved my point, it's NOT unbeatable by any means, and can be stopped even in the pro leagues.
no more arguing ppl ive had like 4 threads closed already and its a pain to keep retyping stuff..
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On January 18 2009 15:34 JoeSaddles wrote:
please stop turning this into a flame war, you proved your point, FE is a standard build.
I proved my point, it's NOT unbeatable by any means, and can be stopped even in the pro leagues.
no more arguing ppl ive had like 4 threads closed already and its a pain to keep retyping stuff..
Ok good, I don't think anyone said its unbeatable though.
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On January 18 2009 15:33 Puosu wrote:Shouldn't you be playing AttackZerg right now? Tbh. I'd be far more interested in replays versus good opponents and not random C- iccup players. :/
I'll gladly play attackzerg tomorrow ranked games only
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Yeah saddles vs attackzerg would be awesome. No one here expects you to win a bo5 anyway but I think there would be some GG's at least.
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unless he wants to wait till i gain one more rank cuz right now were not even
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Maybe people would stop arguing if you didn't give incentives for doing so...
then the lame cop out with the "stop arguing"
that just pisses people off <_<
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On January 18 2009 15:33 Puosu wrote:Shouldn't you be playing AttackZerg right now? Tbh. I'd be far more interested in replays versus good opponents and not random C- iccup players. :/
im only uploading ones vs good players now sry if i uploaded a newb one
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Osaka27149 Posts
Last chance for the trolls in this blog.
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On January 18 2009 15:10 AttackZerg wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2009 15:01 JoeSaddles wrote:On January 18 2009 14:50 AttackZerg wrote:On January 18 2009 14:32 JoeSaddles wrote:On January 18 2009 14:09 CDRdude wrote:
What do you think about modern mutalisk micro? Have you tried offracing, to see what other new strats are like from different perspectives? modern mutalisk micro to me is as strong as GOOD zergs used to do it back in the day. It just seems that now even the average and above average zergs are microing their mutas very well, as before it was only the best zergs who were microing them that well. Last night I killed 4 archons with 11 muta, to stop a 4 archon/zealot timing push, and win the game. Nobody on earth was doing that in 04 sorry, and I'm not even dope at it. Your just playing at the levels that nobody cares about .... move up the rank and you'll see whats mutas are like this kind of response makes no sense... 1. there is no way 11 mutas would ever beat 4 archons if the protoss has half a brain and knows how to micro them... 2 archons yah, but not 4. Yea, 2 marines can also kill 8 lurkers, but that doesn't mean it some super easy shit like the way you put it. 2. i've seen some very good zerg micro in my day in LIVE games, rs.day[9] had insane micro for ALL his units, definitely comparable. Actually yes mutas > archons esp on destination in at the third base. You are not a good player so do not ever speak down to me about broodwar. I've known day since before he was good and as he got good, Day was never a world class zerg either. Very good and very smart and over 300 apm since 2004, but not world class. You played in a useast bubble and thought the people you played with were good. Fact is you were never good, and you weren't playing against koreans like the rest of the decent gamers were back in 2003-2004. I'll say it again, there was nobody on earth who could do what we do with mutas now back in 2004. You aren't playing good players , so don't act like you know about the game yet. (P.s the trick to killing 4 archons to to begin killing them as they leave protoss base, by halfway across the map , you can have 1 killed, every time protoss is on a bridge you can bring 1 archon below 30% health without taking a hit, and also using zealots to riochet shots onto them, since mutas will always bounce left if the gauve worm can, a sunken line also makes it easy to get archons to move forward and then back ... but you know all this because your a c- gosu right?)
Wanna make a bet game that I can kill your 11 mutas with my 4 archons? To make it more realistic, you also have to continuously be macroing 4 bases
On January 18 2009 15:29 JoeSaddles wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2009 15:28 Puosu wrote:On January 18 2009 15:27 CapO wrote:On January 18 2009 15:04 JoeSaddles wrote:On January 18 2009 14:54 -orb- wrote:
Lol a clinic on how to play PvZ?
Dude you really shouldn't be giving clinics on how to play PvZ 3 days after telling everyone FE was stupid and impossible to pull off I never said anything close to that.. I said if zerg knows 100% chance it's coming he has a very good chance to beat it.. which is true. In the finals of a recent tourney the pro P FE'd, the pro Z 6 pooled cuz he knew it was coming, and crippled him enough to WIN the game. that's all i said was possible.... please dont turn the thread into a flame fest anyway, im just here to post reps and talk strategy about brood war, not argue. okay, here's me talking about brood war strategy. pvz FE build has become a standard opener. you're basically saying that the korean progamers are doing it wrong. most zerg players expect the FE build, but no way does he have a good chance to beat it. what you said is NOT true. i think you're mistaken for 13/14 nexus. please, gain some more knowledge before you make such a statement. He bases his argument in that a 4-6 pool CAN end the game there if protoss fucks up, its not a real counter at all for top level playing but something you can do to a newbie who knows nothing put FE. actually i base my argument off a pro league tournament where they were both pros and 6 pool won vs FE...............
Lol what an ignorant post from the guy refuting saddles. 5 pool has been used in TONS of pro games against FE and not ended the game but allowed the Z to get far enough ahead to win.
Also, I'm pretty sure if u let saddles practice for a few weeks he'll rape you, attackzerg. I don't like saddle's attitude much, but I like yours even less.
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On January 18 2009 15:48 NoobsOfWrath wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2009 15:10 AttackZerg wrote:On January 18 2009 15:01 JoeSaddles wrote:On January 18 2009 14:50 AttackZerg wrote:On January 18 2009 14:32 JoeSaddles wrote:On January 18 2009 14:09 CDRdude wrote:
What do you think about modern mutalisk micro? Have you tried offracing, to see what other new strats are like from different perspectives? modern mutalisk micro to me is as strong as GOOD zergs used to do it back in the day. It just seems that now even the average and above average zergs are microing their mutas very well, as before it was only the best zergs who were microing them that well. Last night I killed 4 archons with 11 muta, to stop a 4 archon/zealot timing push, and win the game. Nobody on earth was doing that in 04 sorry, and I'm not even dope at it. Your just playing at the levels that nobody cares about .... move up the rank and you'll see whats mutas are like this kind of response makes no sense... 1. there is no way 11 mutas would ever beat 4 archons if the protoss has half a brain and knows how to micro them... 2 archons yah, but not 4. Yea, 2 marines can also kill 8 lurkers, but that doesn't mean it some super easy shit like the way you put it. 2. i've seen some very good zerg micro in my day in LIVE games, rs.day[9] had insane micro for ALL his units, definitely comparable. Actually yes mutas > archons esp on destination in at the third base. You are not a good player so do not ever speak down to me about broodwar. I've known day since before he was good and as he got good, Day was never a world class zerg either. Very good and very smart and over 300 apm since 2004, but not world class. You played in a useast bubble and thought the people you played with were good. Fact is you were never good, and you weren't playing against koreans like the rest of the decent gamers were back in 2003-2004. I'll say it again, there was nobody on earth who could do what we do with mutas now back in 2004. You aren't playing good players , so don't act like you know about the game yet. (P.s the trick to killing 4 archons to to begin killing them as they leave protoss base, by halfway across the map , you can have 1 killed, every time protoss is on a bridge you can bring 1 archon below 30% health without taking a hit, and also using zealots to riochet shots onto them, since mutas will always bounce left if the gauve worm can, a sunken line also makes it easy to get archons to move forward and then back ... but you know all this because your a c- gosu right?) Wanna make a bet game that I can kill your 11 mutas with my 4 archons? To make it more realistic, you also have to continuously be macroing 4 bases Show nested quote +On January 18 2009 15:29 JoeSaddles wrote:On January 18 2009 15:28 Puosu wrote:On January 18 2009 15:27 CapO wrote:On January 18 2009 15:04 JoeSaddles wrote:On January 18 2009 14:54 -orb- wrote:
Lol a clinic on how to play PvZ?
Dude you really shouldn't be giving clinics on how to play PvZ 3 days after telling everyone FE was stupid and impossible to pull off I never said anything close to that.. I said if zerg knows 100% chance it's coming he has a very good chance to beat it.. which is true. In the finals of a recent tourney the pro P FE'd, the pro Z 6 pooled cuz he knew it was coming, and crippled him enough to WIN the game. that's all i said was possible.... please dont turn the thread into a flame fest anyway, im just here to post reps and talk strategy about brood war, not argue. okay, here's me talking about brood war strategy. pvz FE build has become a standard opener. you're basically saying that the korean progamers are doing it wrong. most zerg players expect the FE build, but no way does he have a good chance to beat it. what you said is NOT true. i think you're mistaken for 13/14 nexus. please, gain some more knowledge before you make such a statement. He bases his argument in that a 4-6 pool CAN end the game there if protoss fucks up, its not a real counter at all for top level playing but something you can do to a newbie who knows nothing put FE. actually i base my argument off a pro league tournament where they were both pros and 6 pool won vs FE............... Lol what an ignorant post from the guy refuting saddles. 5 pool has been used in TONS of pro games against FE and not ended the game but allowed the Z to get far enough ahead to win. Also, I'm pretty sure if u let saddles practice for a few weeks he'll rape you, attackzerg. I don't like saddle's attitude much, but I like yours even less.
I hope this does not count as a troll but what I ment was that 4-6 pool is not as good opening at the top level if there is even a slight chance of your opponent not going FE, thus being only very good counter against those who only know the FE build and never do anything else.
That is according to my knowledge, I might be wrong but I see it like this.
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Everytime Joe posts there is like a shitwave coming right after. Stop trying to flamethrower him.
However, I do suggest Joe to see recent progamer games where there is muta micro and more advanced play (if he haven't already). To tell the truth, progamers can probably beat C+ gamers without using hotkey + 10 second headstart. Some programers can reach mid 450 apm consistant. Some protoss like bisu can harrass 3 zerg bases while microing/macroing flawlessly at the same time. Some zerg can go dance with archons, corsairs, and goons, and pick off high templars no problem. Also, some terran can micro 50 marines and medics against lurker defiler ling while consistantly macroing and sniping defilers with vessels.
If you see some scrub C ranker do those things I mentioned, let me know. That person is probably some high level korean in disguise and I definitely want to vs some one that good myself .
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United States42691 Posts
His comments about 5 pool against FE are just as ignorant as ever.
Sigh. He's not watched a pro vod in years, he shouldn't talk about strategy.
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Braavos36375 Posts
Saddles, I don't agree with all these kids continuing to flame you despite this pretty good attempt at a blog, but your exact quote was:
On January 14 2009 04:14 JoeSaddles wrote:
I'm sorry but on ANY map if the zerg knows you're gonna fast expand and wants to stop it he can easily do so. Especially if he knows you're gonna do it every game.... it could be stopped with simply lots of early lings and constant scouting on your expansion site.
That's just flat wrong. The fact that you asked about PvZ winrates at Proleague and if it got better since 2004 shows how unfamiliar you are with the current builds. It's NOT easy even if you know it's coming, and on most modern maps FE is very, very safe, and not easy to stop. I mean, let's give the Korean scene a bit of credit and figure that professional Ps know what they are doing, they wouldn't expo so much PvZ if it could be "easily stopped". That's just ridiculous.
On January 18 2009 14:32 JoeSaddles wrote:
modern mutalisk micro to me is as strong as GOOD zergs used to do it back in the day.
It just seems that now even the average and above average zergs are microing their mutas very well, as before it was only the best zergs who were microing them that well.
This is also just wrong, muta micro has improved leaps and bounds since 2004 because I don't think grouping with overlord or larvae was even invented then. It's vastly, vastly different for TvZ ever since mutas became really ridiculous around 2007ish. Before then, only July was doing it, after, just about everyone can. I don't know if you play TvZ but saying modern micro is as strong as good zergs used to do back in 2004 is nuts, just watch the VODs, its totally different.
Look, it's just not a good idea to try to be authoritative about strategy when its just completely different now. The competition has gotten stronger (not weaker like you said) and thus it makes sense that the strategies nowadays are better than before. Again, give the Korean proscene some credit (all their strategies filter down through VODs to ICC), there's no way all of them are wrong and you are right about this pretty basic stuff.
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On January 18 2009 15:28 JoeSaddles wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2009 15:27 CapO wrote:On January 18 2009 15:04 JoeSaddles wrote:On January 18 2009 14:54 -orb- wrote:
Lol a clinic on how to play PvZ?
Dude you really shouldn't be giving clinics on how to play PvZ 3 days after telling everyone FE was stupid and impossible to pull off I never said anything close to that.. I said if zerg knows 100% chance it's coming he has a very good chance to beat it.. which is true. In the finals of a recent tourney the pro P FE'd, the pro Z 6 pooled cuz he knew it was coming, and crippled him enough to WIN the game. that's all i said was possible.... please dont turn the thread into a flame fest anyway, im just here to post reps and talk strategy about brood war, not argue. okay, here's me talking about brood war strategy. pvz FE build has become a standard opener. you're basically saying that the korean progamers are doing it wrong. most zerg players expect the FE build, but no way does he have a good chance to beat it. what you said is NOT true. i think you're mistaken for 13/14 nexus. please, gain some more knowledge before you make such a statement. have the protoss vs zerg overall statistics really gone up that much since FE??? whats the win rate for protoss vs zerg overall in pro league??
I don't know what the current win rate is in proleauge, but I do know in recent history, Zergs have been getting demolished, and Protoss has been doing very well. Like the last MSL, the top 4 players were all Protoss. There was only 1 Zerg in the top 8 of the last OSL, and all of the Zergs got knocked out of GOM in Ro16. But when the Forge FE became standard PvZ, people went from calling PvZ imba/impossible, to calling Protoss the easy race.
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attackzerg vs joesaddles bo5 with reps would be sick, please make it happen
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On January 18 2009 16:00 Hot_Bid wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2009 14:32 JoeSaddles wrote:
modern mutalisk micro to me is as strong as GOOD zergs used to do it back in the day.
It just seems that now even the average and above average zergs are microing their mutas very well, as before it was only the best zergs who were microing them that well. This is also just wrong, muta micro has improved leaps and bounds since 2004 because I don't think grouping with overlord or larvae was even invented then. It's vastly, vastly different for TvZ ever since mutas became really ridiculous around 2007ish. Before then, only July was doing it, after, just about everyone can. I don't know if you play TvZ but saying modern micro is as strong as good zergs used to do back in 2004 is nuts, just watch the VODs, its totally different.
He said that the muta micro of average zergs nowadays is the same as the GOOD zergs from before. I don't see how you interpreted what you think he said.
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The difficulty level on iccup has increased tremendously in the past 6 months alone so going all the way back to comparisons like gamei or PGT (I wasn't even around for gamei but i've heard of it) would be hard for any returning player to expect without experiencing it themselves.
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edited: added this to front page.
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4/5 pool is easy to stop if you fe... just build a pylon in your main and a cannon (or two), its not that hard. Yeah, you don't have the expansion, but its still generally pretty even... usually favors the Protoss unless they were super oblivious or their micro is poor (or they got greedy and tried to go Nexus before forge).
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and yah i agree with u guys completely that FE is the new best build for most maps. nowadays the starting spots are farther on most maps than they used to be... remember the days of p2h luna LT etc? nowadays the spots are farther, so FE is obviously going to work better.
I was wrong when I made that statement 4 days ago, didn't realize how big FE has become, it is now going to be the staple of my PvZ lol =p
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On January 18 2009 16:15 JoeSaddles wrote:
and yah i agree with u guys completely that FE is the new best build for most maps. nowadays the starting spots are farther on most maps than they used to be... remember the days of p2h luna LT etc? nowadays the spots are farther, so FE is obviously going to work better.
I was wrong when I made that statement 4 days ago, didn't realize how big FE has become, it is now going to be the staple of my PvZ lol =p
Hm, I actually think most maps are now closer positions than Luna/LT and so on.
Destination for example, aren't the spots awful close compared? Again I might be terribly wrong here, just picturing the maps in my mind gives me that idea.
Medusa/Colosseum also I'd say is about the same as LT or Luna, hm..
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Saddles, when you used to play there was no LAN latency for online play, right? How do you think that has affected the game? I know that I personally started to appreciate the game a lot more after I started playing on ICCUP, since there was no one nearby that I could LAN with.
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On January 18 2009 14:09 CDRdude wrote:
What do you think about modern mutalisk micro? Have you tried offracing, to see what other new strats are like from different perspectives?
and to answer the second part yah ive tried a few games as mech terran vs zerg, couldn't resist trying it lol and I always mix in a bunch of zvp with my pvp on the ladder. PvP is the one matchup I don't have questions about lol, it hasn't changed a bit.
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How far away bases from each other really depends on map. Like with Andromeda, they are pretty far apart, but with something like Bluestorm, they are close. But Forge FE is still standard on both maps. It has more to do with the natural choke being easier to wall off, than how far the rush distances are.
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On January 18 2009 16:54 Luddite wrote:
Saddles, when you used to play there was no LAN latency for online play, right? How do you think that has affected the game? I know that I personally started to appreciate the game a lot more after I started playing on ICCUP, since there was no one nearby that I could LAN with.
I honestly haven't noticed a huge difference with LAN latency it just feels like a lag free game to me. but then again i play mostly protoss which is the easiest race to micro, I haven't checked yet if it makes a big difference with zerg and T
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On January 18 2009 17:02 Sentenal wrote:
How far away bases from each other really depends on map. Like with Andromeda, they are pretty far apart, but with something like Bluestorm, they are close. But Forge FE is still standard on both maps. It has more to do with the natural choke being easier to wall off, than how far the rush distances are.
agreed especially like destination and tau cross the entrance into natural is ridiculously small
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sadly LAN latency hasn't affected reaver scarabs getting stuck at random times and doing no damage >_<
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i like how reavers too sometimes you can right click on a target with full scarabs made and they will start walking to it instead of shooting >_< and the only way to unbug it is to spam stop on them.... you would think blizzard could make a patch that fixes it or something....
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On January 18 2009 17:04 JoeSaddles wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2009 16:54 Luddite wrote:
Saddles, when you used to play there was no LAN latency for online play, right? How do you think that has affected the game? I know that I personally started to appreciate the game a lot more after I started playing on ICCUP, since there was no one nearby that I could LAN with. I honestly haven't noticed a huge difference with LAN latency it just feels like a lag free game to me. but then again i play mostly protoss which is the easiest race to micro, I haven't checked yet if it makes a big difference with zerg and T
haha, fair enough. as a zerg player, it's like "woah... suddenly mutas are useful!"
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On January 18 2009 16:01 Sentenal wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2009 15:28 JoeSaddles wrote:On January 18 2009 15:27 CapO wrote:On January 18 2009 15:04 JoeSaddles wrote:On January 18 2009 14:54 -orb- wrote:
Lol a clinic on how to play PvZ?
Dude you really shouldn't be giving clinics on how to play PvZ 3 days after telling everyone FE was stupid and impossible to pull off I never said anything close to that.. I said if zerg knows 100% chance it's coming he has a very good chance to beat it.. which is true. In the finals of a recent tourney the pro P FE'd, the pro Z 6 pooled cuz he knew it was coming, and crippled him enough to WIN the game. that's all i said was possible.... please dont turn the thread into a flame fest anyway, im just here to post reps and talk strategy about brood war, not argue. okay, here's me talking about brood war strategy. pvz FE build has become a standard opener. you're basically saying that the korean progamers are doing it wrong. most zerg players expect the FE build, but no way does he have a good chance to beat it. what you said is NOT true. i think you're mistaken for 13/14 nexus. please, gain some more knowledge before you make such a statement. have the protoss vs zerg overall statistics really gone up that much since FE??? whats the win rate for protoss vs zerg overall in pro league?? I don't know what the current win rate is in proleauge, but I do know in recent history, Zergs have been getting demolished, and Protoss has been doing very well. Like the last MSL, the top 4 players were all Protoss. There was only 1 Zerg in the top 8 of the last OSL, and all of the Zergs got knocked out of GOM in Ro16. But when the Forge FE became standard PvZ, people went from calling PvZ imba/impossible, to calling Protoss the easy race.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=85901
That thread gives some statistics about what's been going on in proleague recently for Saddles. While you could certainly say zergs were not doing well in individual leagues, proleague PvZ was still 61-46 in favor of the zergs at the end of round 2. Colosseum 2 was the only map where the protoss actually had the advantage.
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On January 18 2009 17:14 Rostam wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2009 16:01 Sentenal wrote:On January 18 2009 15:28 JoeSaddles wrote:On January 18 2009 15:27 CapO wrote:On January 18 2009 15:04 JoeSaddles wrote:On January 18 2009 14:54 -orb- wrote:
Lol a clinic on how to play PvZ?
Dude you really shouldn't be giving clinics on how to play PvZ 3 days after telling everyone FE was stupid and impossible to pull off I never said anything close to that.. I said if zerg knows 100% chance it's coming he has a very good chance to beat it.. which is true. In the finals of a recent tourney the pro P FE'd, the pro Z 6 pooled cuz he knew it was coming, and crippled him enough to WIN the game. that's all i said was possible.... please dont turn the thread into a flame fest anyway, im just here to post reps and talk strategy about brood war, not argue. okay, here's me talking about brood war strategy. pvz FE build has become a standard opener. you're basically saying that the korean progamers are doing it wrong. most zerg players expect the FE build, but no way does he have a good chance to beat it. what you said is NOT true. i think you're mistaken for 13/14 nexus. please, gain some more knowledge before you make such a statement. have the protoss vs zerg overall statistics really gone up that much since FE??? whats the win rate for protoss vs zerg overall in pro league?? I don't know what the current win rate is in proleauge, but I do know in recent history, Zergs have been getting demolished, and Protoss has been doing very well. Like the last MSL, the top 4 players were all Protoss. There was only 1 Zerg in the top 8 of the last OSL, and all of the Zergs got knocked out of GOM in Ro16. But when the Forge FE became standard PvZ, people went from calling PvZ imba/impossible, to calling Protoss the easy race. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=85901That thread gives some statistics about what's been going on in proleague recently for Saddles. While you could certainly say zergs were not doing well in individual leagues, proleague PvZ was still 61-46 in favor of the zergs at the end of round 2. Colosseum 2 was the only map where the protoss actually had the advantage.
that sounds to me like the same type of winrate before everyone was even doing fast expand.... perhaps the maps are just imbalanced or something?>
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if toss is still losing most of the time in PvZ thats not a good sign for toss .... blech ..
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On January 18 2009 17:13 Luddite wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2009 17:04 JoeSaddles wrote:On January 18 2009 16:54 Luddite wrote:
Saddles, when you used to play there was no LAN latency for online play, right? How do you think that has affected the game? I know that I personally started to appreciate the game a lot more after I started playing on ICCUP, since there was no one nearby that I could LAN with. I honestly haven't noticed a huge difference with LAN latency it just feels like a lag free game to me. but then again i play mostly protoss which is the easiest race to micro, I haven't checked yet if it makes a big difference with zerg and T haha, fair enough. as a zerg player, it's like "woah... suddenly mutas are useful!"
aye for sure I did notice in my zerg games that mutas were responding a tiny bit faster and turning a tiny bit faster
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hahaha maybe it's cause you haven't experienced regular b.net latency in a while... the difference is very much noticeable, with any race
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On January 18 2009 17:26 JoeSaddles wrote:
if toss is still losing most of the time in PvZ thats not a good sign for toss .... blech ..
...no toss is not losing most of the time. That's all there is to say.
Though I don't get stuff like this
"The PvZ against the 62-20 B zerg."
http://www.iccup.com/gamingprofile/vsofra.html
Dude is just barely c+
Also you're showing us replays of purely rush builds against players that have little to no idea how to deal with them properly. Lets see a macro game!
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On January 18 2009 17:26 JoeSaddles wrote:
if toss is still losing most of the time in PvZ thats not a good sign for toss .... blech ..
Well like I said in one of my previous post, Zergs are getting raped in individual leagues. Proleague results are bit skewed IMO because there are alot of crappy Protosses who get sent it out, plus Harmony and Andromeda both are kinda bad PvZ.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On January 18 2009 16:15 JoeSaddles wrote:
and yah i agree with u guys completely that FE is the new best build for most maps. nowadays the starting spots are farther on most maps than they used to be... remember the days of p2h luna LT etc? nowadays the spots are farther, so FE is obviously going to work better.
I was wrong when I made that statement 4 days ago, didn't realize how big FE has become, it is now going to be the staple of my PvZ lol =p It's 100% the maps fault. FE has always been the best build to use in PvZ, that's why Protoss loved to play it when they could (hi Guillotine). However your typical standard map did not allow you to play a FE unlike today. People should remember that FE play was 100% standard for pretty much the last half of 2005 - a year and a half before Bisu. Maps were designed from about then on to be easily expandable (for a glance at the map allowing FE just look at Forte, 815, RH (to some extent), R-Point (first pvt 14nex btw), Cultivation Period, Tau Cross etc). In fact the best example of the evolution of map making to favor FE is simply looking at Fantasy and comparing it to the original versions.
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/maps/167_Fantasy%20II.jpg)
Note the layouts of the natural (particularly bottom left and top left)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/maps/63_Sin%20Gaema%20Gowon.jpg)
Look at the bottom left base here - impossible to fast expand
Look at the top left base here, significantly harder to FE here
Your flaw was the assumption that map making trends had stayed the same in your absence; which they did not. Under the old style of maps your claims were perfectly valid, under the new style i think you know the answer
(This post isn't just directed at saddles, its more directly towards the ignorant masses who still beleive bisu invented the FE)
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On January 18 2009 16:05 Avidkeystamper wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2009 16:00 Hot_Bid wrote:On January 18 2009 14:32 JoeSaddles wrote:
modern mutalisk micro to me is as strong as GOOD zergs used to do it back in the day.
It just seems that now even the average and above average zergs are microing their mutas very well, as before it was only the best zergs who were microing them that well. This is also just wrong, muta micro has improved leaps and bounds since 2004 because I don't think grouping with overlord or larvae was even invented then. It's vastly, vastly different for TvZ ever since mutas became really ridiculous around 2007ish. Before then, only July was doing it, after, just about everyone can. I don't know if you play TvZ but saying modern micro is as strong as good zergs used to do back in 2004 is nuts, just watch the VODs, its totally different. He said that the muta micro of average zergs nowadays is the same as the GOOD zergs from before. I don't see how you interpreted what you think he said.
?
thats vastly underestimating the improvement. july could not do what an average korean zerg can do today, and july was leaps and bounds ahead of everyone else back then. grouping tricks + hold and patrol micro make a massive difference. he just doesnt see it because hes playing mostly D ranks.
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Huge respect for you Saddles for coming back and dropping the "I own them all attitude".
Good luck and thanks for the replays.
Even if your macro isn't really good for nowadays standarts i like how you play
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51451 Posts
Wait, people think Bisu invented FE?
Wow.....
+ Show Spoiler +I am going to go jump off a cliff now
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tbh theres a huge difference between lat and no lat latency
even your commands to mine minerals for the workers during the first minute are so much slower
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Atleast saddles isnt being a douche anymore. Goodwork man keep it up :thumbs
(No im not being srcastic)
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Why are you still trying to teach us?
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Norway28668 Posts
muta micro from an average b- korean today is actually better than the best mutamicroer in the entire world of 2004. muta micro from the best players in the world today is on a completely different level than anything you saw back then..
also plexa, legacy of char is a bad example. people fast expanded there even in 2002. most protoss players hated it and regarded it as impossible for pvz, but say, nazgul, (and by extention me, as I played lots with him) liked it and always went fast exp - sair reaver, 7 years ago. )
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attackzerg vs saddles going on yet?.? 
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On January 18 2009 20:47 Boblion wrote:Huge respect for you Saddles for coming back and dropping the "I own them all attitude". Good luck and thanks for the replays. Even if your macro isn't really good for nowadays standarts i like how you play
maybe give me more than 5 days of practice before just saying my macro is no good for today's standards? trust me my macro will be much much better in a few more days of practice.
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Aren't you the one that you will hit the B ranks in short time?
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On January 19 2009 05:49 koreasilver wrote:
Aren't you the one that you will hit the B ranks in short time?
you don't think that within another week to ten days or so of practice i'll be able to hit B ranks? about half of my losses on my page right now are to very skilled players who have just reset or not ranked up yet., not C players. I will be able to get B rank on this ladder......
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On January 19 2009 05:53 JoeSaddles wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2009 05:49 koreasilver wrote:
Aren't you the one that you will hit the B ranks in short time? you don't think that within another week to ten days or so of practice i'll be able to hit B ranks? about half of my losses on my page right now are to very skilled players who have just reset or not ranked up yet., not C players. I will be able to get B rank on this ladder......
We shall see...
but I bet you're in for a surprise at the blue ranks, gl
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Saddles, you will not be able to get to B for a while from what replays I've seen from you. Your records also show that you are unable to take games to the late game. The only thing that people have to do to win against you is play safe.
Your micro and macro are nothing special, and your apm is not going to suddenly shoot up from 150 to 250 after a few days. It's good that you have acknowledged that iCCup is harder than you thought from before, but you are still rather ignorant and it's obvious that you still have not lost your arrogance, and what you've been showing here is just feigned humility.
You are still overrating yourself.
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i think he will get C+ in the next two months.
he's got the skills and the motivation.
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On January 18 2009 15:04 JoeSaddles wrote:please dont turn the thread into a flame fest anyway, im just here to post reps and talk strategy about brood war, not argue.
Okay my bad, you're DEFINITELY a troll. There's no possible way anyone with any measure of sanity would say that after your response of
On January 18 2009 15:01 JoeSaddles wrote:
1. there is no way 11 mutas would ever beat 4 archons if the protoss has half a brain and knows how to micro them... 2 archons yah, but not 4.
2. i've seen some very good zerg micro in my day in lots of live games, rs.day[9] had insane micro for ALL his units, and satanik among others had really really good muta micro.... can't remember exactly which zerg I played had the best muta micro but I remember playing zergs who were absolutely ridiculous with them
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Calgary25980 Posts
On January 19 2009 05:48 JoeSaddles wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2009 20:47 Boblion wrote:Huge respect for you Saddles for coming back and dropping the "I own them all attitude". Good luck and thanks for the replays. Even if your macro isn't really good for nowadays standarts i like how you play maybe give me more than 5 days of practice before just saying my macro is no good for today's standards? trust me my macro will be much much better in a few more days of practice.
You have bad macro now. Let's see what you can do in the future.
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Calgary25980 Posts
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Braavos36375 Posts
On January 19 2009 05:53 JoeSaddles wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2009 05:49 koreasilver wrote:
Aren't you the one that you will hit the B ranks in short time? you don't think that within another week to ten days or so of practice i'll be able to hit B ranks? about half of my losses on my page right now are to very skilled players who have just reset or not ranked up yet., not C players. I will be able to get B rank on this ladder......
while this may or may not be true, and you may or may not be overrating yourself, you did say you'd make B after "a few days" and you aren't even close, so between that an the incorrect strategy assumptions, it's pretty understandable people aren't taking your next declaration seriously. at this point, you won't be able to prove anything through words, only through actual ranking.
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Physician
United States4146 Posts
What if he has already got to B in past seasons?
What if he never did quit StarCraft?
all we know he is now JoeSaddles again : )
+ Show Spoiler +
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You're not getting B in a couple of weeks ;P. The jump from C to B is huge (heck from C+ to B- is huge), and you actually need to learn to play a late macro game by C+. Eventually, you're timing attacks aren't going to work anymore, and you'll truly see the difference.
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CA10828 Posts
one simple solution is simple to start up TSL2 with the ladder phase again. then he'll see exactly how much "worse" the current foreigner scene is compared to a few years ago.
or... you can simply run into the brick wall known as blue-ranked koreans.
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Im not doubting that the hundreds of blue koreans will stop me.. I never said I would get to A rank. Barely any foreigners can.
All I said was that within another week or two I'll be blue ranked and playing games against them, I didn't realize how long it would take me to get back into shape.
and yes my APM definitely will go from 150 to 250 as i practice more. I've already played a few games today with 225 apm, my hands are getting faster.
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On January 19 2009 06:12 koreasilver wrote:
Saddles, you will not be able to get to B for a while from what replays I've seen from you. Your records also show that you are unable to take games to the late game. The only thing that people have to do to win against you is play safe.
Your micro and macro are nothing special, and your apm is not going to suddenly shoot up from 150 to 250 after a few days. It's good that you have acknowledged that iCCup is harder than you thought from before, but you are still rather ignorant and it's obvious that you still have not lost your arrogance, and what you've been showing here is just feigned humility.
You are still overrating yourself.
Mostly truth right here. You're doing rushy builds that if people defended you'd be over run by macro. 2 gating on python can get you pretty far even if you can't micro it very well. In any rep you've posted there's no real mirco just 1a2a3a. And most of your opponents you beat arent good, can't deal with early pressure, or/and have inflated stats so don't take them too to heart.
Macro suddenly does not drastically improve over a few days. Unless you mean from d- level to being able to do it properly. In your case I guess it could.
gl hf
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Calgary25980 Posts
On January 19 2009 07:54 JoeSaddles wrote:
Im not doubting that the hundreds of blue koreans will stop me.. I never said I would get to A rank. Barely any foreigners can.
All I said was that within another week or two I'll be blue ranked and playing games against them, I didn't realize how long it would take me to get back into shape.
and yes my APM definitely will go from 150 to 250 as i practice more. I've already played a few games today with 225 apm, my hands are getting faster.
It's you getting back in shape, but moreso it's that everyone has gotten way better. Please figure this out.
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On January 19 2009 08:03 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2009 07:54 JoeSaddles wrote:
Im not doubting that the hundreds of blue koreans will stop me.. I never said I would get to A rank. Barely any foreigners can.
All I said was that within another week or two I'll be blue ranked and playing games against them, I didn't realize how long it would take me to get back into shape.
and yes my APM definitely will go from 150 to 250 as i practice more. I've already played a few games today with 225 apm, my hands are getting faster.
It's you getting back in shape, but moreso it's that everyone has gotten way better. Please figure this out.
i can tell by the way im playing (like about 50% good as i used to) that it is indeed a lot about me getting back into shape. The competition has improved a lot yah, but I am not playing very good right now.
my macro once practiced again is NOT bad at all.
I'm playing like CRAP right now and yet I'm C ranked 41-20 in 4 days. I do not think it will take me "2 months to get to C+" and whatever else you guys are saying.... I think some of these comments are way off.
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please stop blogging and just get to "B" asap.
thx
bye.
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Calgary25980 Posts
On January 19 2009 08:06 JoeSaddles wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2009 08:03 Chill wrote:On January 19 2009 07:54 JoeSaddles wrote:
Im not doubting that the hundreds of blue koreans will stop me.. I never said I would get to A rank. Barely any foreigners can.
All I said was that within another week or two I'll be blue ranked and playing games against them, I didn't realize how long it would take me to get back into shape.
and yes my APM definitely will go from 150 to 250 as i practice more. I've already played a few games today with 225 apm, my hands are getting faster.
It's you getting back in shape, but moreso it's that everyone has gotten way better. Please figure this out. I think some of these comments are way off.
I agree.
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On January 19 2009 08:10 CapO wrote:
please stop blogging and just get to "B" asap.
thx
bye.
some people asked me to say what I thought of the new competition, and to post some replays and crap, so I did.
I will gladly continue to play though, i need to keep practicing.
this blog was not intended just to entertain YOU, so please don't say not to do things that you have nothing to do with.
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I just hope that that in "seven to ten days" you won't just give yourself a new deadline to hit B rank.
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On January 19 2009 08:27 JoeSaddles wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2009 08:10 CapO wrote:
please stop blogging and just get to "B" asap.
thx
bye. some people asked me to say what I thought of the new competition, and to post some replays and crap, so I did. I will gladly continue to play though, i need to keep practicing. this blog was not intended just to entertain YOU, so please don't say not to do things that you have nothing to do with.
just get to B, and i'll shut up. right now, you're only talking and not showing results.
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I think everyone who ridicules him should be forced to put a link to their iccup page in their post.
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On January 19 2009 09:51 Fontong wrote:
I think everyone who ridicules him should be forced to put a link to their iccup page in their post.
That has nothing to do with this at all.
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On January 19 2009 09:51 Fontong wrote:
I think everyone who ridicules him should be forced to put a link to their iccup page in their post.
Red herring.
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has he played attackzerg yet?
and saddles i wanna play against you again
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Wow I can't believe all the negativity in his blog/threads.
Good work Saddles on all you've done up until now, I admire that you can pick up the game again and still own some guys left and right. Don't listen to these haters and do what you gotta do!
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On January 19 2009 13:27 NeO)PhOeNiX wrote:
Wow I can't believe all the negativity in his blog/threads.
Good work Saddles on all you've done up until now, I admire that you can pick up the game again and still own some guys left and right. Don't listen to these haters and do what you gotta do!
Maybe if you weren't so insulated, you would see that there is a good reason to
Don't listen to these haters and do what you gotta do! can't do
1 year from now, people will remember him as the guy who actually thought he was good, but couldn't break C+.
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tbh C+ is pretty good, i bet not even a quarter of tl can reach C+ (including me :<)
anyways
FLAME ON
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First of all: he made a first post out of ignorance because he didn't know how good people have gotten, fine.
Secondly: you're all jumping on the bash Saddles bandwagon which is fucking retarded because he's probably already better than 90% of the people who've posted comments in this thread (except Chill and a few others who are definitely better than him).
Thirdly: there's no reason to continue acting like morons when he only made one idiotic blog and has since gone back on it because he realized that it would take longer than that to get up to B rank.
Let's face it, nobody except Chill and 1-2 other people who've posted in this thread have any idea what "facing blue ranked Koreans" feels like, so you all should stop acting like fuckheads.
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On January 19 2009 14:32 kdog3683 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2009 13:27 NeO)PhOeNiX wrote:
Wow I can't believe all the negativity in his blog/threads.
Good work Saddles on all you've done up until now, I admire that you can pick up the game again and still own some guys left and right. Don't listen to these haters and do what you gotta do! Maybe if you weren't so insulated, you would see that there is a good reason to
There's a good reason to what? Keep flaming a guy who made a stupid blog almost (or over) a week ago with some stupid claims which he now says openly that were mistakes on his part?
Stop being a fucking tool.
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On January 19 2009 14:32 kdog3683 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2009 13:27 NeO)PhOeNiX wrote:
Wow I can't believe all the negativity in his blog/threads.
Good work Saddles on all you've done up until now, I admire that you can pick up the game again and still own some guys left and right. Don't listen to these haters and do what you gotta do! Maybe if you weren't so insulated, you would see that there is a good reason to 1 year from now, people will remember him as the guy who actually thought he was good, but couldn't break C+.
I seriously think you are not thinking correctly here...... not gonna be able to break C+?
I've been playing for 4 days so far... this is after not playing for 3-4 YEARS.
And I'm C right now, do you really honestly believe that I am not even gonna be able to make it to C+??? Right now I'm playing at about 40-50% of the speed I used to play.....
Come on man lol.....
And yes I freely admit I was wrong on my first day posting here, I didn't realize how popular FE PvZ has become, and also didn't realize how much muta micro has improved.
I've admitted that, I admit it freely that i was DEAD WRONG.
but do you honestly think that after 4 days of playing I hit C rank, and I will not be able to break C+ within a few more weeks of practice? LOL... come on ... that just doesnt make sense. Once I get back to 90-100% of what I used to play like I will be blue ranked...
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If I was 45-52 C ranked or something then I would agree that I would not get past it.
But the fact is I'm winning a lot more than I'm losing at C rank, I'm 41-20 right now and I know it's a crappy record but a lot of my losses are to very very good players.... a lot of them are 25-1 42-7 etc etc. THey are not C players.
and like I said i'm playing at about 40% of how I used to play.
add those 2 facts together, and do you honestly believe I won't even make it to C+???
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I freely admit my first post 4 or 5 days ago was inaccurate and arrogant... I said it would take me a few days when really I should have said it would take me a few WEEKS at least to get back into shape..
I was gone from the game for a long time and I'm not playing nearly up to speed yet.
but to everyone posting that I'm a newb and etc and that I'll never even get to C+, that is just plain wrong.... I think I've proved that just in my first few days of playing again...
once I get back to 100% do you guys still really think I'm a newb and won't get to blue ranks??
http://www.iccup.com/gamingprofile/saddles.html
42-20 on my 5'th day of coming back??? Only playing at about 40-50% speed right now that I used to???? APM right now only at 180 instead of 240-250 where it used to be 4 years ago??
yah I'm sure i'm a complete newb.... ok guys............
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no offense but are we supposed to know you? I was definitely not following American SC way back when so I have no idea if you were famous or something
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On January 19 2009 17:29 blabber wrote:
no offense but are we supposed to know you? I was definitely not following American SC way back when so I have no idea if you were famous or something
I think some of the people here know me but a lot probably don't...
My real name is Joey and I've been playing BW since it came out, I believe I was 10 or 11 when I first started. I live in the Miami area of southern Florida.
I was playing pretty well in 03 and 04. ... my biggest online accomplishment was probably in WGTour don't remember exactly which season, season 6 or season 7 maybe.
I finished 120-55 B2 16'th overall in the 1v1 ladder and qualified for the final tournament. Got beat by zealotito in round 2 and finished 12'th in the tourney. That year I also played in many gosugamers.net show matches and a few team liquid tourney and other tourney invites.
for 2 or 3 more seasons I finished b2 ranked but never placed higher than 16'th overall.
For offline, I went to WCG in 04 and finished 8'th overall in the USA, getting knocked out at the USA finals 3'rd round by FroZ in Long Beach, California. That was the only year I attended WCG or anything offline.. Oh I was also on Team USA A-team for a while when nation wars were still popular.... don't know what that's worth but for a while I was considered top 2-3 protoss in the US.
I had a very good record in nation wars and always seemed to play my best against good competition... I remember one nation war where I clinched the win forUSA by 2-0'ing eriador.. team USA was very strong back then though I think we were one of the top 3-4 teams out of all the nations.
(besides korea obviously, they weren't wasting time with newbs)
a year after that when I turned 18 I quit BW and got addicted to World of Warcraft LOL =(
But obviously today like people have said the competition has improved a lot since then. The strategies for PvZ have also changed a LOT.
It will take me a lot of time to really learn the new builds and to learn the new MAPS especially.... but I can still feel the potential there, as soon as my HANDS get fast again and catch up to my brain I think I will still be a good player.
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Norway28668 Posts
while I agree that I think you will be able to reach b- (and maybe even keep it, as later in the season it will be easier to do so with more and more people attaining it, i think its more likely that you'll reach it and then fall down to c+ like 5-6 times until you manage to stabilize around 6500), i do have to wonder where you learned the math that allows you to form this sentence "Only playing at about 40-50% speed right now that I used to???? APM right now only at 180 instead of 240-250 where it used to be 4 years ago??"
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There are so many completely random people here flaming me that I have to add this in.... I know it's nothing great but how many of you guys here randomly flaming me for no reason have won stuff just from playing a computer game?
Just from playing BW back then I've won 240$ (covers the cost of my bw discs!!!!!!!! hehehe), a 19 inch flat screen samsung LCD monitor, a free trip to California for the USA finals, (one of the best weekends of my life... got to go there with my closest Uncle who is now passed away, and we got to go for free and enjoy ourselves at Long Beach... very very fun weekend.. I still remember each day clearly)
and a few other small items like keyboard mouse t-shirts etc. This was all from playing offline for 1 year...
so flame away people, flame away !!!!!
edit: heres one of the links before you can flame me even more and call me a liar or whatever
http://www.v2.cyberfight.ru/site/news/26408/?highlight=froz
heres an OLD ASS link showing when I first joined team USA (03') note that i was in iG back then lol, just starting to play some decent games. I didn't really get good until I joined rS and then Fk. in 04' http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=9833
if anyone can translate the first one would be cool, I'll look for some diff links
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On January 19 2009 17:44 Liquid`Drone wrote:while I agree that I think you will be able to reach b- (and maybe even keep it, as later in the season it will be easier to do so with more and more people attaining it, i think its more likely that you'll reach it and then fall down to c+ like 5-6 times until you manage to stabilize around 6500), i do have to wonder where you learned the math that allows you to form this sentence "Only playing at about 40-50% speed right now that I used to???? APM right now only at 180 instead of 240-250 where it used to be 4 years ago??"
Sorry for my sloppy grammar I'll try to clean it up a little from now on. I know it's a pain in the ass to read sloppily written posts.
I suppose I'm just being lazy at 4:00 am, but that is no excuse anyway I was even a journalism major in college =( I feel ashamed for those sentences =O
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LOL heres a link showing how far back me and NoNy went... check the brood war part of this profile
http://www.sk-gaming.com/member/trance
I still remember the days of team NuT lol me nony and nooks used to hvae lots of fun with that team.
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JoeSaddles wrote:edited: adding more reps Coldheart C, Korean, 43-15 SaddleS C, USA, 41-20 ( i know my record sux cut me some slack it's my 4'th day back) Not much to say about this one. I do a build that is designed just to force him to build drones, and it kills him. I guess my zealot vs zergling/drone/sunken micro is good, I have practiced that specific type of micro more than any kind... don't know what else to say, he is obviously not a newb. http://rapidshare.com/files/185270563/coldheartpvz1.repNrT.FlaF 15-1 D+ Romania Saddles Same as above, I do a build that is designed only to put pressure on them early, and it ends up winning outright. I know these are not complete newb players, so I believe my zealot vs ling micro can still be good in today's game, with a few weeks of practicing it'll be at a high level I think (again it's only meant to force them to build LINGS instead of drones, pro zergs will never die to it off the bat, instead it slows their economy a lot, like it did vs the 60-20 zerg) http://rapidshare.com/files/185275054/nrtpvz1.rep.htmlteam.
Hi Joe,
I was following your comeback and your blog quite closely, even though I haven't commented on it yet. Probably, it's just that I am quite an old schooler as well (started in 99), sometimes quit, came back, quit (never for 4 years though ), came back and so on. Right now, I am something in between. The difference definitely is that I was never really good (and never played that much). Probably in 2001 or something I was one of the better German players, but since then....now I am just D+ and could probably reach C- if I tried hard (so I am really bad). I nevertheless do have a lot of experience in theorycrafting and have watched a lot of REPs, VODs and so for almost 10 years now.
Your style of coming back at least on TL-net was quite entertaining, a bit cocky though, but I guess you already know. Anyways, I doesn't matter to me, because I am not taking SC seriously anymore (or never really did). The flame war was fun etc.
Ok, I start wandering off. Coming to my point:
I just watched the two REPs quoted above. Unfortunately, I couldn't download the other ones as the rapidshare only allowed 10 downloads. Maybe you repost them again?
Anyways, I watched those REPs and to be honest they only prove ONE thing. You are absolutely on the WRONG WAY. Sorry to say this.
WHY?
You are talking about zealot and probe micro and are using 2 gate rushes.
Okay, fine. In 2000-2003 I was doing exactly the same thing and I was really good at it. Killing zergs who were careless enough to do a 12 hatch (like Coldheart did) at a rather close position, which is almost impossible to hold or doing a non-stop zealot-power rush to kill the incautious zerg not playing safe enough (your 2nd game). And back in the days it was even harder to do these kind of rushes than nowadays (!), because many zerg player were EXPECTING it (because it was quite common) and were prepared. so:
1.) The micro/macro necessary is really easy (even I can do it decently) and shows nothing about your real ability to micro/macro at the same time in more complex situations.
2.) These players were not used to it/not expecting it, didn't know how to deal with it properly.
3.) It would get much harder if you'd play a best of 3 or 5 vs them.
I know why you are doing that kind of rushes. You are used to them, you win games with them and this is important for you now, because you feel the pressure of the other TL members you challenged (at least some, not me), who would lol at you if you wouldn't be C-/C now.
So, for me it is understandable, but nevertheless it is the WORST thing you could do right now. Really. (I know I just watched 2 replays, but that most of your won games are <10min shows me that you are doing a lot rush/all-in kind of games).
If you want to really improve your game and not get as good as you used to be, you should STOP that kind of gaming immediately, even though it will most probably imply that you will lose more games and fall in the ranks (or barely hold it). But nevertheless you should do it (atl east in my opinion). Now, on to the reasoning:
To really improve your game, you have to practice the things you are worst at (this was of course not invented by me, but e.g. Daniel Lee a famous korean proteam coach said it (he also coached Grrrr..., Elky, Legionairre etc) and was confirmed by your highly esteemed Nony, go ask him).
Things you are already good at (like zeal/probe micro, rush) are not worth to practice anymore (or at least right now!). You know how to rush. STOP rushing. Better players will never fall for it and then it's just a BAD opening, believe me. Even C-players usually won't fall for it more than once or twice.
So, to really get better and decent again you should 1.) non-stop practice the new builds, maybe you've got an advantage here over younger players, because they might take the builds as unchangeable facts even though they are actually only made for progamers. At C/B-level they can definitely be improved by certain adjustments you could much better find with a skeptical look from the old days.
2.) Use micro maps, improve you micro, especially the micro you are NOT good at.
3.) Read strategies, watch progamer VODs and play again those new strategies. Only by playing them you will learn how to hold your FE against ALL-INs and you will learn how to learn more from your scouting probe.
This will probably mean that you will lose a lot more games and that there might be some ppl laughing at you, but only this will finally make you a better gamer. Don't care about the laughing, it's just a consequence of your cocky comeback at TL!
I don't know which rank you can reach with your oldschool type of play, but there will be a limit which you can only beat if you learn the new ways of playing and adjust to it. And the earlier you practice this, the better. If you wait too long there will be the peril that you stick to your old ways and quit SC again, because of fearing to lose your rank. You then know: "if I do my oldschool ways I can probably win 50:50. If I change my style it's at the beginning 20:80 or something". and only with a lot of practice you can put it to 50:50 again and only then you can further improve your rank. And the later you begin with it the more difficult it will be to actually do it (as your brain and your urge to win again will always try to move you back to your old ways)
I don't know if I could convey what I was trying to say, but anyways I tried hard .
BTW: I was doing the exact same thing (albeit on a much lower level) and only when I started to do things differently I could improve.
GL
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both of my reps you watched were games where all the zeals were meant to do was force the zerg to build lings instead of drones... didn't you see what i wrote up for them?
in fact in most of those PvZ I end up playing 13 -15 minute games where the zerg's economy is messed up but he doesnt die, this is the whole point of my build.... it's not like im doing some insane all in rush like you are thinking, I simply build zealots from 2 gates while teching to sair/citadel....
I do not think you are correct at all about this, my games are not "all in" types of builds, I happen to be winning most of my games in under 10 minutes simply because a lot of the players I'm playing are not that good with micro/macro.....
heres my last couple losses at C- rank.....
http://www.iccup.com/gamingprofile/pbszzanga.html
43-13 C korean, think he really belongs at C rank ???
http://www.iccup.com/gamingprofile/vsofra.html 62-22 C+.... korean... again with a record like that does this player belong at C rank?
http://www.iccup.com/gamingprofile/gkwjdgh.html 20-6 korean
http://www.iccup.com/gamingprofile/davidjoy_cn.html 60-4 Chinese. Lost 2 games to him where I had early advantage in both. Rusty micro and macro blew these games for me, I was winning both early. Think he belongs at C+ rank or perhaps a bit higher???
http://www.iccup.com/gamingprofile/wyvern[toss].html 71-49 C+ korean, don't think he's gonna max out at C+...
http://www.iccup.com/gamingprofile/honestfg.html 30-11 C korean **... same as above
http://www.iccup.com/gamingprofile/mouseware.html 40-11 C korean. is this player truly a C ranked player? I doubt it when you look at his record....
http://www.iccup.com/gamingprofile/nuttin.html 26-7 C korean.
http://www.iccup.com/gamingprofile/loveyunyun.html 40-23 C korean, B last season.
Out of my last 17 losses, 12 OF THEM ARE TO THESE PLAYERS.... WHO ARE ALL B OR HIGHER MATERIAL..... the other 5 are to players with worse recrods (but nobody under 50% win percentage).
So... if you seriously think I'm just a newb who can only win with rush, you need to do some more research, MOST of my losses are to players who don't even belong at my rank, everyone else I am beating.
and for the 5'th time I CAN PLAY LONG GAMES... did you even read what I wrote to describe the PvZ reps? those strats aren't even meant to kill them......
It's my 5'th day back, 75% of my losses are to players who belong at B- or higher, and I'm still getting my handspeed back (only at 190 apm right now when used to be at 240)
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On January 19 2009 21:43 JoeSaddles wrote:Out of my last 17 losses, 12 OF THEM ARE TO THESE PLAYERS.... WHO ARE ALL B OR HIGHER MATERIAL.....
Why makes you so sure you're in any position to judge who you play is a B player? You seem to bring this up alot, yet you've never been B. What makes you think the other C players you played are representitive over these guys?
Extrapolating rank via win percentage is pretty much considered a cardinal sin here.
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On January 19 2009 22:21 Lachrymose wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2009 21:43 JoeSaddles wrote:Out of my last 17 losses, 12 OF THEM ARE TO THESE PLAYERS.... WHO ARE ALL B OR HIGHER MATERIAL..... Why makes you so sure you're in any position to judge who you play is a B player? You seem to bring this up alot, yet you've never been B. What makes you think the other C players you played are representitive over these guys? Extrapolating rank via win percentage is pretty much considered a cardinal sin here.
This.
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On January 19 2009 21:43 JoeSaddles wrote:
both of my reps you watched were games where all the zeals were meant to do was force the zerg to build lings instead of drones... didn't you see what i wrote up for them?
I really was trying hard but I think you didn't get my message anyways. Probably it's my fault for not being clear enough.
As I said I know these kinda builds perfectly as I played them over and over again myself. No need to eplain the reason why you do them. And yes, these builds are viable and they will probably might get you to b-rank (even though I don't know I was never that high...).
I don't know what your goals are. If you want to become as good as you once were, no problem with that. keep doing these builds and improve your mechanics. You probably will become even slightly better than 2004 in 2 months or something. i dont know. But. you will never get much better, because you lack the new strategical concepts.
so, if you want to become much better than in 2004, play the new builds. you know how to play the old ones. no need to practice. you will only improve your hand speed. ok. play the new ones. the earlier the better. then you can also improve your strategic ability.
There is a reason why 2 gate builds are barely used from protoss progamers anymore (only on certain maps like requiem e.g.). And this simply means you won't break a certain limit with the old builds. Your limit might only have a chance to get higher if you play the new builds a lot.
ok. in short:
play the old builds, you will win more games now, later you will have a hard,hard time to get any higher and might be unwilling to adapt as it is much harder to adapt at B-level than it is at D level
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On January 19 2009 21:43 JoeSaddles wrote:both of my reps you watched were games where all the zeals were meant to do was force the zerg to build lings instead of drones... didn't you see what i wrote up for them? in fact in most of those PvZ I end up playing 13 -15 minute games where the zerg's economy is messed up but he doesnt die, this is the whole point of my build.... it's not like im doing some insane all in rush like you are thinking, I simply build zealots from 2 gates while teching to sair/citadel.... I do not think you are correct at all about this, my games are not "all in" types of builds, I happen to be winning most of my games in under 10 minutes simply because a lot of the players I'm playing are not that good with micro/macro..... heres my last couple losses at C- rank..... http://www.iccup.com/gamingprofile/pbszzanga.html 43-13 C korean, think he really belongs at C rank ??? http://www.iccup.com/gamingprofile/vsofra.html 62-22 C+.... korean... again with a record like that does this player belong at C rank? http://www.iccup.com/gamingprofile/gkwjdgh.html 20-6 korean http://www.iccup.com/gamingprofile/davidjoy_cn.html 60-4 Chinese. Lost 2 games to him where I had early advantage in both. Rusty micro and macro blew these games for me, I was winning both early. Think he belongs at C+ rank or perhaps a bit higher??? http://www.iccup.com/gamingprofile/wyvern[toss].html 71-49 C+ korean, don't think he's gonna max out at C+... http://www.iccup.com/gamingprofile/honestfg.html 30-11 C korean **... same as above http://www.iccup.com/gamingprofile/mouseware.html 40-11 C korean. is this player truly a C ranked player? I doubt it when you look at his record.... http://www.iccup.com/gamingprofile/nuttin.html 26-7 C korean. http://www.iccup.com/gamingprofile/loveyunyun.html 40-23 C korean, B last season. Out of my last 17 losses, 12 OF THEM ARE TO THESE PLAYERS.... WHO ARE ALL B OR HIGHER MATERIAL..... the other 5 are to players with worse recrods (but nobody under 50% win percentage). So... if you seriously think I'm just a newb who can only win with rush, you need to do some more research, MOST of my losses are to players who don't even belong at my rank, everyone else I am beating. and for the 5'th time I CAN PLAY LONG GAMES... did you even read what I wrote to describe the PvZ reps? those strats aren't even meant to kill them...... It's my 5'th day back, 75% of my losses are to players who belong at B- or higher, and I'm still getting my handspeed back (only at 190 apm right now when used to be at 240)
Joesaddles 1v1 @ iccup?
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You've now discovered why you don't speak about your future iCCup rank, or what you COULD get, if you tried.
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On January 19 2009 22:21 Lachrymose wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2009 21:43 JoeSaddles wrote:Out of my last 17 losses, 12 OF THEM ARE TO THESE PLAYERS.... WHO ARE ALL B OR HIGHER MATERIAL..... Why makes you so sure you're in any position to judge who you play is a B player? You seem to bring this up alot, yet you've never been B. What makes you think the other C players you played are representitive over these guys? Extrapolating rank via win percentage is pretty much considered a cardinal sin here.
Is this post serious? you really don't think that 40-11 C korean players could get to B rank? or how bout the 60-2 chinese guy? or the other 35-7 type koreans??
Do you honestly believe that these players would be UNABLE to get to B rank? With those kind of records? ?????? give me a break... those are B material players.
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On January 20 2009 01:28 JoeSaddles wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2009 22:21 Lachrymose wrote:On January 19 2009 21:43 JoeSaddles wrote:Out of my last 17 losses, 12 OF THEM ARE TO THESE PLAYERS.... WHO ARE ALL B OR HIGHER MATERIAL..... Why makes you so sure you're in any position to judge who you play is a B player? You seem to bring this up alot, yet you've never been B. What makes you think the other C players you played are representitive over these guys? Extrapolating rank via win percentage is pretty much considered a cardinal sin here. Is this post serious? you really don't think that 40-11 C korean players could get to B rank? or how bout the 60-2 chinese guy? or the other 35-7 type koreans?? Do you honestly believe that these players would be UNABLE to get to B rank? With those kind of records? ?????? give me a break... those are B material players.
the 45-2* chinese guy had half of his wins vs D ranked players, hence being 45-2 at C rank.
and most players will go 80+% win until theyre within a rank or 2 of their max, then hit a wall, especially late season when most of the good players have already passed through on their way up. so ya playing high % C's does not equate to playing B's, at all.
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Far too arrogant without any backing, Saddles.
You're not even feigning humility anymore.
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Saddles what is your obsession with stats and regression analysis, are you going to get to B or not, that's all we care about. So far you've resetted your stats when they started to suck and this time you've hardly played games since you've reached C, what on earth are you trying to prove here. Noone here cares that there were really good players among the players that beat you, you realize this works both ways right? There are plenty of terrible players you've played who are higher ranked simply because they've played a lot of games. All you're doing is subjectively judging your skill and making excuses for your losses, and making yourself look like a typical cocky b.net kid to everyone.
Also this site has the most accessible database for progaming stuff and you keep using crappy outdated strategies, why.
If you want to gain any respect here you should start gaming and stop talking, like all the good foreigners do. I've never seen Nony talk about how good he can be if only he tried on some ladder, or making excuses for why someone handed his ass to him. He just gets better, without giving 2 shits about what the community thinks. There's a reason why actions speak louder than words.
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Katowice25012 Posts
On January 18 2009 15:28 JoeSaddles wrote:
have the protoss vs zerg overall statistics really gone up that much since FE??? whats the win rate for protoss vs zerg overall in pro league??
As people have mentioned, FE and Bisu are two different events but here is an interesting statistic, courtesy of TLPD!
Pre-Bisu-vs-Savior ZvP: 682-547 (55.49%)
Post-Bisu-vs-Savior ZvP: 300-308 (49.34%)
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United States42691 Posts
Interesting stat heyoka but I think the fact remains that FE PvZ simply isn't viable if the Z knows it is coming.
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Braavos36375 Posts
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On January 20 2009 01:28 JoeSaddles wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2009 22:21 Lachrymose wrote:On January 19 2009 21:43 JoeSaddles wrote:Out of my last 17 losses, 12 OF THEM ARE TO THESE PLAYERS.... WHO ARE ALL B OR HIGHER MATERIAL..... Why makes you so sure you're in any position to judge who you play is a B player? You seem to bring this up alot, yet you've never been B. What makes you think the other C players you played are representitive over these guys? Extrapolating rank via win percentage is pretty much considered a cardinal sin here. Is this post serious? you really don't think that 40-11 C korean players could get to B rank? or how bout the 60-2 chinese guy? or the other 35-7 type koreans?? Do you honestly believe that these players would be UNABLE to get to B rank? With those kind of records? ?????? give me a break... those are B material players.
I have a friend who gets stats like that till c and than his win rate just drops like crazy at c+. He goes from like 20-2 to 105-105. He barely got out of c+.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
I'm C on ICCUP ^_^
I will be home tomorrow let us game some!
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On January 20 2009 19:52 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
I'm C on ICCUP ^_^
I will be home tomorrow let us game some!
for sure InC we need to practice some games msg me whenever !!!!
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saddles u need to play me still i wanna c if you have really gotten better after about a week now
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saddles just game to B with as many losses as it takes that will prove 100% more than reps vs people who can bash Ds especially when half of those are losses
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what rank is incontrol capable of in iccup if he tries and plays enough?
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On January 21 2009 09:03 BlueRoyaL wrote:
what rank is incontrol capable of in iccup if he tries and plays enough?
I think A- for sure maybe A if he really tries really hard + dodge a bit the top Kors ?
He needs to be in shape though ;O
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He is in shape!
Edit: oh bw shape duhhhhhhhh
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On January 21 2009 09:09 Boblion wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2009 09:03 BlueRoyaL wrote:
what rank is incontrol capable of in iccup if he tries and plays enough? I think A- for sure maybe A if he really tries really hard + dodge a bit the top Kors ? He needs to be in shape though ;O
You can't dodge the top kors at A- rank.
Have you taken a look at the iccup ladder recently? We're already relatively late into the season, and according to the 1v1 ladder page on iccup.com, the highest foreigner is B+.
So in other words, once you get to B+, you're not playing many foreigners anymore, but if you get to A- you're never playing another foreigner again unless another one meets you up there.
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On January 21 2009 11:07 -orb- wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2009 09:09 Boblion wrote:On January 21 2009 09:03 BlueRoyaL wrote:
what rank is incontrol capable of in iccup if he tries and plays enough? I think A- for sure maybe A if he really tries really hard + dodge a bit the top Kors ? He needs to be in shape though ;O You can't dodge the top kors at A- rank. Have you taken a look at the iccup ladder recently? We're already relatively late into the season, and according to the 1v1 ladder page on iccup.com, the highest foreigner is B+. So in other words, once you get to B+, you're not playing many foreigners anymore, but if you get to A- you're never playing another foreigner again unless another one meets you up there.
1- when i mean top Korean i mean the 100-0 guys not the no names 200-160 guys.
2- I don't think that many foreigners are mass gaming this season. Anyway i'm not talking about specifically about this season. We need a TSL2 to know their real level when they are 100% dedicated.
3- Kwark got B+ ( i guess it was last season ) you think that InC cant make better ? Maybe A is a bit too much but A-/B+ is 100% sure if he is in shape and plays a lot.
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Norway28668 Posts
huge difference between this season and last, at least so far. i dunno how much longer its going to last but being b+/ a- at this stage is vastly different from being it at the end of the season.
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United States10774 Posts
On January 21 2009 23:12 Boblion wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2009 11:07 -orb- wrote:On January 21 2009 09:09 Boblion wrote:On January 21 2009 09:03 BlueRoyaL wrote:
what rank is incontrol capable of in iccup if he tries and plays enough? I think A- for sure maybe A if he really tries really hard + dodge a bit the top Kors ? He needs to be in shape though ;O You can't dodge the top kors at A- rank. Have you taken a look at the iccup ladder recently? We're already relatively late into the season, and according to the 1v1 ladder page on iccup.com, the highest foreigner is B+. So in other words, once you get to B+, you're not playing many foreigners anymore, but if you get to A- you're never playing another foreigner again unless another one meets you up there. 1- when i mean top Korean i mean the 100-0 guys not the no names 200-160 guys. 2- I don't think that many foreigners are mass gaming this season. Anyway i'm not talking about specifically about this season. We need a TSL2 to know their real level when they are 100% dedicated. 3- Kwark got B+ ( i guess it was last season ) you think that InC cant make better ? Maybe A is a bit too much but A-/B+ is 100% sure if he is in shape and plays a lot.
Hmm I don't even think foreigners can beat 200-160 A Koreans.
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Valhalla18444 Posts
On January 22 2009 11:57 Liquid`Drone wrote:
huge difference between this season and last, at least so far. i dunno how much longer its going to last but being b+/ a- at this stage is vastly different from being it at the end of the season.
isn't it nice to have a real ladder?
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On January 20 2009 01:34 IdrA wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2009 01:28 JoeSaddles wrote:On January 19 2009 22:21 Lachrymose wrote:On January 19 2009 21:43 JoeSaddles wrote:Out of my last 17 losses, 12 OF THEM ARE TO THESE PLAYERS.... WHO ARE ALL B OR HIGHER MATERIAL..... Why makes you so sure you're in any position to judge who you play is a B player? You seem to bring this up alot, yet you've never been B. What makes you think the other C players you played are representitive over these guys? Extrapolating rank via win percentage is pretty much considered a cardinal sin here. Is this post serious? you really don't think that 40-11 C korean players could get to B rank? or how bout the 60-2 chinese guy? or the other 35-7 type koreans?? Do you honestly believe that these players would be UNABLE to get to B rank? With those kind of records? ?????? give me a break... those are B material players. the 45-2* chinese guy had half of his wins vs D ranked players, hence being 45-2 at C rank. and most players will go 80+% win until theyre within a rank or 2 of their max, then hit a wall, especially late season when most of the good players have already passed through on their way up. so ya playing high % C's does not equate to playing B's, at all.
This is so true, during the spirit ladder I was 50-8 when I hit B, then I used 45 games more to get to B+
So I sort of expect that people who are B- easily can hit C+ with a 80%+ winrate. Even all those people who hit B- with 60-20ish records late season are usually max B players, and alot of them hit a brickwall once they get to B-
So Joe no, good win% at C dont automatically make B players...
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On January 22 2009 13:43 Oystein wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2009 01:34 IdrA wrote:On January 20 2009 01:28 JoeSaddles wrote:On January 19 2009 22:21 Lachrymose wrote:On January 19 2009 21:43 JoeSaddles wrote:Out of my last 17 losses, 12 OF THEM ARE TO THESE PLAYERS.... WHO ARE ALL B OR HIGHER MATERIAL..... Why makes you so sure you're in any position to judge who you play is a B player? You seem to bring this up alot, yet you've never been B. What makes you think the other C players you played are representitive over these guys? Extrapolating rank via win percentage is pretty much considered a cardinal sin here. Is this post serious? you really don't think that 40-11 C korean players could get to B rank? or how bout the 60-2 chinese guy? or the other 35-7 type koreans?? Do you honestly believe that these players would be UNABLE to get to B rank? With those kind of records? ?????? give me a break... those are B material players. the 45-2* chinese guy had half of his wins vs D ranked players, hence being 45-2 at C rank. and most players will go 80+% win until theyre within a rank or 2 of their max, then hit a wall, especially late season when most of the good players have already passed through on their way up. so ya playing high % C's does not equate to playing B's, at all. This is so true, during the spirit ladder I was 50-8 when I hit B, then I used 45 games more to get to B+ So I sort of expect that people who are B- easily can hit C+ with a 80%+ winrate. Even all those people who hit B- with 60-20ish records late season are usually max B players, and alot of them hit a brickwall once they get to B- So Joe no, good win% at C dont automatically make B players...
When did I say everyone with a good win% was a B player??
I was referring to a few certain people..... davidjoy_cn and vsofra or something close to it
BTW davidjoy_cn he is now 70-7 and has not lost in his last 8 games vs C+ players.
vsofra is 62-22 and is not losing much vs C+ players... he is still rising in points pretty fast.
So these guys are not B material??? sure..............
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On January 22 2009 15:34 JoeSaddles wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2009 13:43 Oystein wrote:On January 20 2009 01:34 IdrA wrote:On January 20 2009 01:28 JoeSaddles wrote:On January 19 2009 22:21 Lachrymose wrote:On January 19 2009 21:43 JoeSaddles wrote:Out of my last 17 losses, 12 OF THEM ARE TO THESE PLAYERS.... WHO ARE ALL B OR HIGHER MATERIAL..... Why makes you so sure you're in any position to judge who you play is a B player? You seem to bring this up alot, yet you've never been B. What makes you think the other C players you played are representitive over these guys? Extrapolating rank via win percentage is pretty much considered a cardinal sin here. Is this post serious? you really don't think that 40-11 C korean players could get to B rank? or how bout the 60-2 chinese guy? or the other 35-7 type koreans?? Do you honestly believe that these players would be UNABLE to get to B rank? With those kind of records? ?????? give me a break... those are B material players. the 45-2* chinese guy had half of his wins vs D ranked players, hence being 45-2 at C rank. and most players will go 80+% win until theyre within a rank or 2 of their max, then hit a wall, especially late season when most of the good players have already passed through on their way up. so ya playing high % C's does not equate to playing B's, at all. This is so true, during the spirit ladder I was 50-8 when I hit B, then I used 45 games more to get to B+ So I sort of expect that people who are B- easily can hit C+ with a 80%+ winrate. Even all those people who hit B- with 60-20ish records late season are usually max B players, and alot of them hit a brickwall once they get to B- So Joe no, good win% at C dont automatically make B players... When did I say everyone with a good win% was a B player?? I was referring to one certain person..... davidjoy_cn BTW he is now 70-7 and has not lost in his last 8 games vs C+ players. So this guy is not B material??? sure..............
The thing is: of course it is possible that he is a B player. But you will only know for sure if he gets one (early in the season, later in the season it gets easier).
But you were claiming that most of the clear losses you had were against B players. And this you just don't know yet.
Btw don't you have time gaming anymore?
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i think its been about a week, feel like playing yet?
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On January 22 2009 15:42 IdrA wrote:
i think its been about a week, feel like playing yet?
sure if u wanna play regular games... I would love to play some.... but i can't play 50 dollars a game after playing for a week over the last 3 years.... especially since you've probably been practicing A LOT lately like 6-10 hours a day I would guess?? you are probably far better than me right now.
if you don't have time to play non-money games then good luck to you and I hope you do well in all matches. go USA!!!
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On January 22 2009 15:38 Drazzzt wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2009 15:34 JoeSaddles wrote:On January 22 2009 13:43 Oystein wrote:On January 20 2009 01:34 IdrA wrote:On January 20 2009 01:28 JoeSaddles wrote:On January 19 2009 22:21 Lachrymose wrote:On January 19 2009 21:43 JoeSaddles wrote:Out of my last 17 losses, 12 OF THEM ARE TO THESE PLAYERS.... WHO ARE ALL B OR HIGHER MATERIAL..... Why makes you so sure you're in any position to judge who you play is a B player? You seem to bring this up alot, yet you've never been B. What makes you think the other C players you played are representitive over these guys? Extrapolating rank via win percentage is pretty much considered a cardinal sin here. Is this post serious? you really don't think that 40-11 C korean players could get to B rank? or how bout the 60-2 chinese guy? or the other 35-7 type koreans?? Do you honestly believe that these players would be UNABLE to get to B rank? With those kind of records? ?????? give me a break... those are B material players. the 45-2* chinese guy had half of his wins vs D ranked players, hence being 45-2 at C rank. and most players will go 80+% win until theyre within a rank or 2 of their max, then hit a wall, especially late season when most of the good players have already passed through on their way up. so ya playing high % C's does not equate to playing B's, at all. This is so true, during the spirit ladder I was 50-8 when I hit B, then I used 45 games more to get to B+ So I sort of expect that people who are B- easily can hit C+ with a 80%+ winrate. Even all those people who hit B- with 60-20ish records late season are usually max B players, and alot of them hit a brickwall once they get to B- So Joe no, good win% at C dont automatically make B players... When did I say everyone with a good win% was a B player?? I was referring to one certain person..... davidjoy_cn BTW he is now 70-7 and has not lost in his last 8 games vs C+ players. So this guy is not B material??? sure.............. The thing is: of course it is possible that he is a B player. But you will only know for sure if he gets one (early in the season, later in the season it gets easier). But you were claiming that most of the clear losses you had were against B players. And this you just don't know yet. Btw don't you have time gaming anymore?
aye I will be back to my house tomorrow morning, I spent the last 2 and a half days at my dad's house in fort lauderdale, I'm leaving here tomorrow morning though so I will be playing again very soon.. can't wait to start gaming again and hopefully improve in rank (dont care how many losses I get as long as I keep gaining points)
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On January 22 2009 15:34 JoeSaddles wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2009 13:43 Oystein wrote:On January 20 2009 01:34 IdrA wrote:On January 20 2009 01:28 JoeSaddles wrote:On January 19 2009 22:21 Lachrymose wrote:On January 19 2009 21:43 JoeSaddles wrote:Out of my last 17 losses, 12 OF THEM ARE TO THESE PLAYERS.... WHO ARE ALL B OR HIGHER MATERIAL..... Why makes you so sure you're in any position to judge who you play is a B player? You seem to bring this up alot, yet you've never been B. What makes you think the other C players you played are representitive over these guys? Extrapolating rank via win percentage is pretty much considered a cardinal sin here. Is this post serious? you really don't think that 40-11 C korean players could get to B rank? or how bout the 60-2 chinese guy? or the other 35-7 type koreans?? Do you honestly believe that these players would be UNABLE to get to B rank? With those kind of records? ?????? give me a break... those are B material players. the 45-2* chinese guy had half of his wins vs D ranked players, hence being 45-2 at C rank. and most players will go 80+% win until theyre within a rank or 2 of their max, then hit a wall, especially late season when most of the good players have already passed through on their way up. so ya playing high % C's does not equate to playing B's, at all. This is so true, during the spirit ladder I was 50-8 when I hit B, then I used 45 games more to get to B+ So I sort of expect that people who are B- easily can hit C+ with a 80%+ winrate. Even all those people who hit B- with 60-20ish records late season are usually max B players, and alot of them hit a brickwall once they get to B- So Joe no, good win% at C dont automatically make B players... When did I say everyone with a good win% was a B player?? I was referring to a few certain people..... davidjoy_cn and vsofra or something close to it BTW davidjoy_cn he is now 70-7 and has not lost in his last 8 games vs C+ players. vsofra is 62-22 and is not losing much vs C+ players... he is still rising in points pretty fast. So these guys are not B material??? sure..............
looooool 70-7 and C+.....
This should point to that this guy isnt B more than its points to him being B. If you play same rank and on motw iv hit B- in 40 games as the fastest late in the season. People with his stats and winrates who plays equal ranked opponents would be B+ or A-. Maybe he is, maybe he aint, his stats dont prove anything.
And to be a B player you have to be able to win 50% or more against other B players, there is lots of easy ways to gain rank like playing only some maps, lower ranked opponents avoid some matchups, only play bad win% opponent and the list goes on. Even if you get to B using those kind of tactics that doesnt make your skill B level, even if you might obtain the rank.
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On January 22 2009 15:55 Oystein wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2009 15:34 JoeSaddles wrote:On January 22 2009 13:43 Oystein wrote:On January 20 2009 01:34 IdrA wrote:On January 20 2009 01:28 JoeSaddles wrote:On January 19 2009 22:21 Lachrymose wrote:On January 19 2009 21:43 JoeSaddles wrote:Out of my last 17 losses, 12 OF THEM ARE TO THESE PLAYERS.... WHO ARE ALL B OR HIGHER MATERIAL..... Why makes you so sure you're in any position to judge who you play is a B player? You seem to bring this up alot, yet you've never been B. What makes you think the other C players you played are representitive over these guys? Extrapolating rank via win percentage is pretty much considered a cardinal sin here. Is this post serious? you really don't think that 40-11 C korean players could get to B rank? or how bout the 60-2 chinese guy? or the other 35-7 type koreans?? Do you honestly believe that these players would be UNABLE to get to B rank? With those kind of records? ?????? give me a break... those are B material players. the 45-2* chinese guy had half of his wins vs D ranked players, hence being 45-2 at C rank. and most players will go 80+% win until theyre within a rank or 2 of their max, then hit a wall, especially late season when most of the good players have already passed through on their way up. so ya playing high % C's does not equate to playing B's, at all. This is so true, during the spirit ladder I was 50-8 when I hit B, then I used 45 games more to get to B+ So I sort of expect that people who are B- easily can hit C+ with a 80%+ winrate. Even all those people who hit B- with 60-20ish records late season are usually max B players, and alot of them hit a brickwall once they get to B- So Joe no, good win% at C dont automatically make B players... When did I say everyone with a good win% was a B player?? I was referring to a few certain people..... davidjoy_cn and vsofra or something close to it BTW davidjoy_cn he is now 70-7 and has not lost in his last 8 games vs C+ players. vsofra is 62-22 and is not losing much vs C+ players... he is still rising in points pretty fast. So these guys are not B material??? sure.............. looooool 70-7 and C+..... This should point to that this guy isnt B more than its points to him being B. If you play same rank and on motw iv hit B- in 40 games as the fastest late in the season. People with his stats and winrates who plays equal ranked opponents would be B+ or A-. And to be a B player you have to be able to win 50% or more against other B players, there is lots of easy ways to gain rank like playing only some maps, lower ranked opponents avoid some matchups, only play bad win% opponent and the list goes on. Even if you get to B using those kind of tactics that doesnt make your skill B level, even if you might obtain the rank.
I agree with you completely that this guy has newb-bashed some, and inflated his record, but he is still not a newb, and is definitely capable of playing with B players.
In fact his last win was against a player who is now B- with a regular type record of 62-40.... all I was saying was this guy was above a C level type player... which you can not deny that he is
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Calgary25980 Posts
On January 22 2009 15:59 JoeSaddles wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2009 15:55 Oystein wrote:On January 22 2009 15:34 JoeSaddles wrote:On January 22 2009 13:43 Oystein wrote:On January 20 2009 01:34 IdrA wrote:On January 20 2009 01:28 JoeSaddles wrote:On January 19 2009 22:21 Lachrymose wrote:On January 19 2009 21:43 JoeSaddles wrote:Out of my last 17 losses, 12 OF THEM ARE TO THESE PLAYERS.... WHO ARE ALL B OR HIGHER MATERIAL..... Why makes you so sure you're in any position to judge who you play is a B player? You seem to bring this up alot, yet you've never been B. What makes you think the other C players you played are representitive over these guys? Extrapolating rank via win percentage is pretty much considered a cardinal sin here. Is this post serious? you really don't think that 40-11 C korean players could get to B rank? or how bout the 60-2 chinese guy? or the other 35-7 type koreans?? Do you honestly believe that these players would be UNABLE to get to B rank? With those kind of records? ?????? give me a break... those are B material players. the 45-2* chinese guy had half of his wins vs D ranked players, hence being 45-2 at C rank. and most players will go 80+% win until theyre within a rank or 2 of their max, then hit a wall, especially late season when most of the good players have already passed through on their way up. so ya playing high % C's does not equate to playing B's, at all. This is so true, during the spirit ladder I was 50-8 when I hit B, then I used 45 games more to get to B+ So I sort of expect that people who are B- easily can hit C+ with a 80%+ winrate. Even all those people who hit B- with 60-20ish records late season are usually max B players, and alot of them hit a brickwall once they get to B- So Joe no, good win% at C dont automatically make B players... When did I say everyone with a good win% was a B player?? I was referring to a few certain people..... davidjoy_cn and vsofra or something close to it BTW davidjoy_cn he is now 70-7 and has not lost in his last 8 games vs C+ players. vsofra is 62-22 and is not losing much vs C+ players... he is still rising in points pretty fast. So these guys are not B material??? sure.............. looooool 70-7 and C+..... This should point to that this guy isnt B more than its points to him being B. If you play same rank and on motw iv hit B- in 40 games as the fastest late in the season. People with his stats and winrates who plays equal ranked opponents would be B+ or A-. And to be a B player you have to be able to win 50% or more against other B players, there is lots of easy ways to gain rank like playing only some maps, lower ranked opponents avoid some matchups, only play bad win% opponent and the list goes on. Even if you get to B using those kind of tactics that doesnt make your skill B level, even if you might obtain the rank. I agree with you completely that this guy has newb-bashed some, and inflated his record, but he is still not a newb, and is definitely capable of playing with B players.
Dude, what are you basing this on other than gut feeling?
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On January 22 2009 16:07 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2009 15:59 JoeSaddles wrote:On January 22 2009 15:55 Oystein wrote:On January 22 2009 15:34 JoeSaddles wrote:On January 22 2009 13:43 Oystein wrote:On January 20 2009 01:34 IdrA wrote:On January 20 2009 01:28 JoeSaddles wrote:On January 19 2009 22:21 Lachrymose wrote:On January 19 2009 21:43 JoeSaddles wrote:Out of my last 17 losses, 12 OF THEM ARE TO THESE PLAYERS.... WHO ARE ALL B OR HIGHER MATERIAL..... Why makes you so sure you're in any position to judge who you play is a B player? You seem to bring this up alot, yet you've never been B. What makes you think the other C players you played are representitive over these guys? Extrapolating rank via win percentage is pretty much considered a cardinal sin here. Is this post serious? you really don't think that 40-11 C korean players could get to B rank? or how bout the 60-2 chinese guy? or the other 35-7 type koreans?? Do you honestly believe that these players would be UNABLE to get to B rank? With those kind of records? ?????? give me a break... those are B material players. the 45-2* chinese guy had half of his wins vs D ranked players, hence being 45-2 at C rank. and most players will go 80+% win until theyre within a rank or 2 of their max, then hit a wall, especially late season when most of the good players have already passed through on their way up. so ya playing high % C's does not equate to playing B's, at all. This is so true, during the spirit ladder I was 50-8 when I hit B, then I used 45 games more to get to B+ So I sort of expect that people who are B- easily can hit C+ with a 80%+ winrate. Even all those people who hit B- with 60-20ish records late season are usually max B players, and alot of them hit a brickwall once they get to B- So Joe no, good win% at C dont automatically make B players... When did I say everyone with a good win% was a B player?? I was referring to a few certain people..... davidjoy_cn and vsofra or something close to it BTW davidjoy_cn he is now 70-7 and has not lost in his last 8 games vs C+ players. vsofra is 62-22 and is not losing much vs C+ players... he is still rising in points pretty fast. So these guys are not B material??? sure.............. looooool 70-7 and C+..... This should point to that this guy isnt B more than its points to him being B. If you play same rank and on motw iv hit B- in 40 games as the fastest late in the season. People with his stats and winrates who plays equal ranked opponents would be B+ or A-. And to be a B player you have to be able to win 50% or more against other B players, there is lots of easy ways to gain rank like playing only some maps, lower ranked opponents avoid some matchups, only play bad win% opponent and the list goes on. Even if you get to B using those kind of tactics that doesnt make your skill B level, even if you might obtain the rank. I agree with you completely that this guy has newb-bashed some, and inflated his record, but he is still not a newb, and is definitely capable of playing with B players. Dude, what are you basing this on other than gut feeling?
the fact that he just won a 30 minute game against a 60-40 B- ranked player???
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Calgary25980 Posts
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Okay you're insane.
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On January 22 2009 16:10 Chill wrote:
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Okay you're insane.
right... even though his very last game was a game he WON against a B- player, he is definitely not capable of being B ranked??
umm??? ok..... I'm the insane one?? o.O
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Saddles, you do realise you're trying to prove that your stats can be extrapolated to B because you've lost mainly to players whose stats you believe can be extrapolated to B?
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On January 22 2009 16:14 armed_ wrote:
Saddles, you do realise you're trying to prove that your stats can be extrapolated to B because you've lost mainly to players whose stats you believe can be extrapolated to B?
wow I can't believe how much people are twisting my words....
please quote the post where I said my stats can be extrapolated to B rank???
????
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Calgary25980 Posts
On January 22 2009 16:12 JoeSaddles wrote:right... even though his very last game was a game he WON against a B- player, he is definitely not capable of being B ranked?? umm??? ok..... I'm the insane one?? o.O
Yes, my ability to maintain a 50% win percentage at a level should be based on the results of a single game (with no inference into how the game was played) with a player below said level.
That makes sense.
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On January 22 2009 16:19 JoeSaddles wrote:
wow I can't believe how much people are twisting my words....
please quote the post where I said my stats can be extrapolated to B rank???
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On January 19 2009 21:43 JoeSaddles wrote:
Out of my last 17 losses, 12 OF THEM ARE TO THESE PLAYERS.... WHO ARE ALL B OR HIGHER MATERIAL..... the other 5 are to players with worse recrods (but nobody under 50% win percentage).
blahblahblah
It's my 5'th day back, 75% of my losses are to players who belong at B- or higher, and I'm still getting my handspeed back (only at 190 apm right now when used to be at 240)
If this isn't heavily implying that given your current stats and your estimation of your current form you'll make it to B I don't know what is.
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On January 22 2009 16:22 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2009 16:12 JoeSaddles wrote:On January 22 2009 16:10 Chill wrote:
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Okay you're insane. right... even though his very last game was a game he WON against a B- player, he is definitely not capable of being B ranked?? umm??? ok..... I'm the insane one?? o.O Yes, my ability to maintain a 50% win percentage at a level should be based on the results of a single game (with no inference into how the game was played) with a player below said level. That makes sense.
1. He has played 1 game so far against a B- player. He won it.
2. It was a 30 minute game, not cheese.
3. He was 69-7 coming into the game, and yes I know he newb bashed to get there, but it's still not a bad record at all to come into B- rank with.
based on all this you really honestly believe he is NOT B material? I believe he is.....
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Calgary25980 Posts
On January 22 2009 16:27 JoeSaddles wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2009 16:22 Chill wrote:On January 22 2009 16:12 JoeSaddles wrote:On January 22 2009 16:10 Chill wrote:
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Okay you're insane. right... even though his very last game was a game he WON against a B- player, he is definitely not capable of being B ranked?? umm??? ok..... I'm the insane one?? o.O Yes, my ability to maintain a 50% win percentage at a level should be based on the results of a single game (with no inference into how the game was played) with a player below said level. That makes sense. 1. He has played 1 game so far against a B- player. He won it. 2. It was a 30 minute game, not cheese. 3. He was 69-7 coming into the game, and yes I know he newb bashed to get there, but it's still not a bad record at all to come into B- rank with. based on all this you really honestly believe he is NOT B material? I believe he is.....
No, I truly don't.
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On January 22 2009 16:27 JoeSaddles wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2009 16:22 Chill wrote:On January 22 2009 16:12 JoeSaddles wrote:On January 22 2009 16:10 Chill wrote:
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Okay you're insane. right... even though his very last game was a game he WON against a B- player, he is definitely not capable of being B ranked?? umm??? ok..... I'm the insane one?? o.O Yes, my ability to maintain a 50% win percentage at a level should be based on the results of a single game (with no inference into how the game was played) with a player below said level. That makes sense. 1. He has played 1 game so far against a B- player. He won it. 2. It was a 30 minute game, not cheese. 3. He was 69-7 coming into the game, and yes I know he newb bashed to get there, but it's still not a bad record at all to come into B- rank with. based on all this you really honestly believe he is NOT B material? I believe he is.....
Winning one straight up game against a B- player doesn't make you B material. I beat a C- player once and I'll be D for quite a few seasons...
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ok well everyone is entitled to their own opinion obviously.
I won't post again in this thread until I'm blue instead of yellow... So many people are blindly flaming me that I now can't wait to get there.... tomorrow morning I begin playing again!!
GL to all !!
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On January 22 2009 16:32 JoeSaddles wrote:
ok well everyone is entitled to their own opinion obviously.
I won't post again in this thread until I'm blue instead of yellow... So many people are blindly flaming me that I now can't wait to get there.... tomorrow morning I begin playing again!!
GL to all !!
Good luck!
Until then, good riddance kekeke
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On January 22 2009 16:32 JoeSaddles wrote:
I won't post again in this thread until I'm blue instead of yellow... So many people are blindly flaming me that I now can't wait to get there.... tomorrow morning I begin playing again!!
I think that you shouldn't say that so lightly, but I admire your confidence. Best of luck to you.
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On January 22 2009 16:27 JoeSaddles wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2009 16:22 Chill wrote:On January 22 2009 16:12 JoeSaddles wrote:On January 22 2009 16:10 Chill wrote:
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Okay you're insane. right... even though his very last game was a game he WON against a B- player, he is definitely not capable of being B ranked?? umm??? ok..... I'm the insane one?? o.O Yes, my ability to maintain a 50% win percentage at a level should be based on the results of a single game (with no inference into how the game was played) with a player below said level. That makes sense. 1. He has played 1 game so far against a B- player. He won it. 2. It was a 30 minute game, not cheese. 3. He was 69-7 coming into the game, and yes I know he newb bashed to get there, but it's still not a bad record at all to come into B- rank with. based on all this you really honestly believe he is NOT B material? I believe he is.....
Why are you trying to defend something so heartily that you cannot prove. He bashed the shit out of shitty players all the way to a certain rank only to get there that way? That makes no sense. It's slower and you gain nothing out of it. Maybe someone else is playing the account now? Maybe he got a lucky win? Anything is possible, but the guy is not good. Stop justifying your opponents.
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On January 22 2009 16:27 JoeSaddles wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2009 16:22 Chill wrote:On January 22 2009 16:12 JoeSaddles wrote:On January 22 2009 16:10 Chill wrote:
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Okay you're insane. right... even though his very last game was a game he WON against a B- player, he is definitely not capable of being B ranked?? umm??? ok..... I'm the insane one?? o.O Yes, my ability to maintain a 50% win percentage at a level should be based on the results of a single game (with no inference into how the game was played) with a player below said level. That makes sense. 1. He has played 1 game so far against a B- player. He won it. 2. It was a 30 minute game, not cheese. 3. He was 69-7 coming into the game, and yes I know he newb bashed to get there, but it's still not a bad record at all to come into B- rank with. based on all this you really honestly believe he is NOT B material? I believe he is.....
How do you know how the game was just because it was 30 mins? maybe he 5pooled and killed all but 1 of his opponents workers but barely won still.... Just because a game is 30mins you got no idea how it was played, iv played 30mins game where I only made probes, pylons and cannons.
Of course most likely its a straight up game, but you got no way to say if it is or not.
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Why is everyone on this guy's case? Sure he may be underestimating modern competitive SC and is gloating a bit but who cares? Everyone does that.
Or maybe you're jealous because you've already reached your skill cap of D+ so you're nitpicking at everything he does to bring him down with you?
Just wait & see. If he fails, then he'll just fade away like the hype.
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On January 22 2009 15:52 JoeSaddles wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2009 15:42 IdrA wrote:
i think its been about a week, feel like playing yet? sure if u wanna play regular games... I would love to play some.... but i can't play 50 dollars a game after playing for a week over the last 3 years.... especially since you've probably been practicing A LOT lately like 6-10 hours a day I would guess?? you are probably far better than me right now. if you don't have time to play non-money games then good luck to you and I hope you do well in all matches. go USA!!!
nah dude im only like 60% on iccup i suck ass
you can have 2:1 odds
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United States10774 Posts
On January 22 2009 16:27 JoeSaddles wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2009 16:22 Chill wrote:On January 22 2009 16:12 JoeSaddles wrote:On January 22 2009 16:10 Chill wrote:
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Okay you're insane. right... even though his very last game was a game he WON against a B- player, he is definitely not capable of being B ranked?? umm??? ok..... I'm the insane one?? o.O Yes, my ability to maintain a 50% win percentage at a level should be based on the results of a single game (with no inference into how the game was played) with a player below said level. That makes sense. 1. He has played 1 game so far against a B- player. He won it. 2. It was a 30 minute game, not cheese. 3. He was 69-7 coming into the game, and yes I know he newb bashed to get there, but it's still not a bad record at all to come into B- rank with. based on all this you really honestly believe he is NOT B material? I believe he is.....
...You are ridiculous.
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On January 19 2009 17:03 Xeris wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2009 14:32 kdog3683 wrote:On January 19 2009 13:27 NeO)PhOeNiX wrote:
Wow I can't believe all the negativity in his blog/threads.
Good work Saddles on all you've done up until now, I admire that you can pick up the game again and still own some guys left and right. Don't listen to these haters and do what you gotta do! Maybe if you weren't so insulated, you would see that there is a good reason to There's a good reason to what? Keep flaming a guy who made a stupid blog almost (or over) a week ago with some stupid claims which he now says openly that were mistakes on his part? Stop being a fucking tool.
Are you trying to be cool by beginning a pointless flame? I could dismantle you even after having killed off 2 probes/drones/scvs to start with. Let me know when you want to play a bet game. This has absolutely nothing to do with anything, but I just wanted to emphasize the point that a player who fails at SC despite having played it for a long time should not begin to talk about the competitive aspect of SC as if he held high expertise. You do lead team Light, but what would you personally know about who is what skill when all you do is sit on the sidelines with a finger up your ass.
As to Saddles, he's nothing but the protoss version of lastShadow and I would gladly destroy him as well as having not touched this game for 2years.
edit: I just read through 3 more pages and its a bit sickening the shameless self promotion there is...
"Hi I'm Joey Saddles, i won 240$ + tv + I'm in team USA and IG and etc etc etc. my life story begins with ..."
As to people commenting on you Joey, we read between the lines. It doesn't take a journalism major (which i doubt you are considering the trend in exaggeration/narcissism based off your reflection on your SC performance. Most likely you took a few lit classes @ a comm college and extrapolated yourself by a few years.) to see the massive amount effort you put behind every selective replay and word you decide to use.
Difference between you and a good player is people know a good player is good.
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On January 22 2009 16:27 JoeSaddles wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2009 16:22 Chill wrote:On January 22 2009 16:12 JoeSaddles wrote:On January 22 2009 16:10 Chill wrote:
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Okay you're insane. right... even though his very last game was a game he WON against a B- player, he is definitely not capable of being B ranked?? umm??? ok..... I'm the insane one?? o.O Yes, my ability to maintain a 50% win percentage at a level should be based on the results of a single game (with no inference into how the game was played) with a player below said level. That makes sense. 1. He has played 1 game so far against a B- player. He won it. 2. It was a 30 minute game, not cheese. 3. He was 69-7 coming into the game, and yes I know he newb bashed to get there, but it's still not a bad record at all to come into B- rank with. based on all this you really honestly believe he is NOT B material? I believe he is.....
Riiiiight... im not the first to point this out but right now you're suffering from a severe misunderstanding of what being a legitimate B Player entails. Idra's point is really on target. You don't notice the gap between levels at lower levels but as you climb up, you really start to feel it. It takes a huge amount of effort to go from say, C+ to B-.
a legitimate B player doesnt mean being able to beat B- people regularly and hitting B in the low 7000's and then falling back to B- as soon as trying to face other B gamers too often. it means being able to stabilize at a little bit above 7000 by having a close to 50% win ratio vs combined B- and B gamers on a variety of maps and matchups. you might touch Blue but you might never be a real Blue gamer.
That being said, since you are an old school gosu, you probably will make it to B. Thing is...that's gonna take a lot of time if we take for granted that you won't cut corners like avoiding maps or matchups and playing always ppl below your rank. months, many months (years?). But again..i'll be happy when you get there...its always nice to see old 'gosus' coming back, ive always been a big fan of the foreign scene. (not that the competition was lacking in your absence)
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Wondering when we will be seeing iccup account sales on ebay... :p
SELLING 5 C accounts to highest bidders! !!
You know, there might actually be money in this-.- gogo pros, make it happen.
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Play Idra for bet games, you have DTs on your side!!
I know people that have tried to estimate their rank based on the people they play, and it annoys the fuck out of everyone. Somehow a D- beats a D who's beaten a D+ ends up meaning that the D- can beat the D+ and therefore is C- level. For instance my liquidrank is B- but I've only ever gotten C-
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lol 70-7 B-
Thats like LastShadow good.
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Wait so did he bail on his deadline v2 or are we on to deadline v3 now?
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On January 22 2009 18:25 kdog3683 wrote: It doesn't take a journalism major (which i doubt you are considering the trend in exaggeration/narcissism based off your reflection on your SC performance. Most likely you took a few lit classes @ a comm college and extrapolated yourself by a few years.) to see the massive amount effort you put behind every selective replay and word you decide to use.
Hahahahahah I hadn't even thought about the fact the he was probably lying about that too.
Good one kdog
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I don't get why people care about this so much.
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On January 23 2009 01:58 Sadist wrote:
lol 70-7 B-
Thats like LastShadow good.
haha made me chuckle ;D
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On January 23 2009 04:19 nAi.PrOtOsS wrote:
I don't get why people care about this so much. I agree, this thread is a steaming pile of shit topped with flame bait at every turn.
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