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On January 18 2009 15:10 AttackZerg wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2009 15:01 JoeSaddles wrote:On January 18 2009 14:50 AttackZerg wrote:On January 18 2009 14:32 JoeSaddles wrote:On January 18 2009 14:09 CDRdude wrote:
What do you think about modern mutalisk micro? Have you tried offracing, to see what other new strats are like from different perspectives? modern mutalisk micro to me is as strong as GOOD zergs used to do it back in the day. It just seems that now even the average and above average zergs are microing their mutas very well, as before it was only the best zergs who were microing them that well. Last night I killed 4 archons with 11 muta, to stop a 4 archon/zealot timing push, and win the game. Nobody on earth was doing that in 04 sorry, and I'm not even dope at it. Your just playing at the levels that nobody cares about .... move up the rank and you'll see whats mutas are like  this kind of response makes no sense... 1. there is no way 11 mutas would ever beat 4 archons if the protoss has half a brain and knows how to micro them... 2 archons yah, but not 4. 2. i've seen some very good zerg micro in my day in LIVE games, rs.day[9] had insane micro for ALL his units, definitely comparable. Actually yes mutas > archons esp on destination in at the third base. You are not a good player so do not ever speak down to me about broodwar. I've known day since before he was good and as he got good, Day was never a world class zerg either. Very good and very smart and over 300 apm since 2004, but not world class. You played in a useast bubble and thought the people you played with were good. Fact is you were never good, and you weren't playing against koreans like the rest of the decent gamers were back in 2003-2004. I'll say it again, there was nobody on earth who could do what we do with mutas now back in 2004. You aren't playing good players , so don't act like you know about the game yet. (P.s the trick to killing 4 archons to to begin killing them as they leave protoss base, by halfway across the map , you can have 1 killed, every time protoss is on a bridge you can bring 1 archon below 30% health without taking a hit, and also using zealots to riochet shots onto them, since mutas will always bounce left if the gauve worm can, a sunken line also makes it easy to get archons to move forward and then back ... but you know all this because your a c- gosu right?)
This to me is just an insane rant from someone who is mad that i just proved them wrong, it'd be way too easy to pick apart your thread again.... USEast bubble? Most of my time was on europe. foreigners playing koreans in 03 and 04? hahahah.... most of the competition back then was on ladders (wgtour, pgtour, gamei back in the day) and tournmanets (WCG, teamliquid, gosugamers, etc) offline and online, none of the top foreigners besides maybe 2-3 were ever playing with the pro koreans daily...
but seriously don't wanna get this thread deleted so stop arguing....
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I am in op tot) ... Lets play bo5 ranked guys, I'll just show you and then post the reps here.
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Wow, great job man. And nice to see the self-awareness after that initial wave of arrogance and ignorance. Keep it up!  Good luck!
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Yeah a rep of that would be cool attackzerg, not that I doubt you.  It is doable by all means, but really really hard if they were all at full health.
The PvZ reps where kinda fun to watch. The second zerg player was absolutely horrible though, and it shows in his stats as well. Hope you upload all the reps against the gamers in the OP. I think most of us prefer that instead of watching an autorep folder from D to C- level.
One thing about the first PvZ game, you should IMO move out at 5 zeals two at ramp, instead of 7. I think that is standard too, I'm not a protossplayer though so I might be wrong. When you wait for 7 you give him time to get up a sunken while moving at 5 gets you there before he has time to get up a sunken, if he droned to much you will be able to kill/punish him way easier, that game you only managed to hurt him because he fucked up bigtime and let you into his main. gj winning anyhow though, that zerg is good.
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On January 18 2009 15:22 Supah wrote:Yeah a rep of that would be cool attackzerg, not that I doubt you. It is doable by all means, but really really hard if they were all at full health. The PvZ reps where kinda fun to watch. The second zerg player was absolutely horrible though, and it shows in his stats as well. Hope you upload all the reps against the gamers in the OP. I think most of us prefer that instead of watching an autorep folder from D to C- level. One thing about the first PvZ game, you should IMO move out at 5 zeals two at ramp, instead of 7. I think that is standard too, I'm not a protossplayer though so I might be wrong. When you wait for 7 you give him time to get up a sunken while moving at 5 gets you there before he has time to get up a sunken, if he droned to much you will be able to kill/punish him way easier, that game you only managed to hurt him because he fucked up bigtime and let you into his main. gj winning anyhow though, that zerg is good.
I used to move out with 5 but it seems lately a lot of zergs like to mass speedlings in early game... maybe it's just a trend but i've seen 5 zeals seems to be too small of a force to really threaten zerg who gets speed early, instead you end up losing your zealots, while 7 needs lots of zerglings to beat even with speed, and you can do things like run into their base after you kill zerglings and only sunkens are left.
still though sometimes 5 is probably the better choice, i guess it depends on how many zerglings u see with ur scout
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On January 18 2009 15:04 JoeSaddles wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2009 14:54 -orb- wrote:
Lol a clinic on how to play PvZ?
Dude you really shouldn't be giving clinics on how to play PvZ 3 days after telling everyone FE was stupid and impossible to pull off I never said anything close to that.. I said if zerg knows 100% chance it's coming he has a very good chance to beat it.. which is true. In the finals of a recent tourney the pro P FE'd, the pro Z 6 pooled cuz he knew it was coming, and crippled him enough to WIN the game. that's all i said was possible.... please dont turn the thread into a flame fest anyway, im just here to post reps and talk strategy about brood war, not argue.
okay, here's me talking about brood war strategy.
pvz FE build has become a standard opener. you're basically saying that the korean progamers are doing it wrong. most zerg players expect the FE build, but no way does he have a good chance to beat it. what you said is NOT true.
i think you're mistaken for 13/14 nexus.
please, gain some more knowledge before you make such a statement.
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On January 18 2009 15:27 CapO wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2009 15:04 JoeSaddles wrote:On January 18 2009 14:54 -orb- wrote:
Lol a clinic on how to play PvZ?
Dude you really shouldn't be giving clinics on how to play PvZ 3 days after telling everyone FE was stupid and impossible to pull off I never said anything close to that.. I said if zerg knows 100% chance it's coming he has a very good chance to beat it.. which is true. In the finals of a recent tourney the pro P FE'd, the pro Z 6 pooled cuz he knew it was coming, and crippled him enough to WIN the game. that's all i said was possible.... please dont turn the thread into a flame fest anyway, im just here to post reps and talk strategy about brood war, not argue. okay, here's me talking about brood war strategy. pvz FE build has become a standard opener. you're basically saying that the korean progamers are doing it wrong. most zerg players expect the FE build, but no way does he have a good chance to beat it. what you said is NOT true. i think you're mistaken for 13/14 nexus. please, gain some more knowledge before you make such a statement.
have the protoss vs zerg overall statistics really gone up that much since FE??? whats the win rate for protoss vs zerg overall in pro league??
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On January 18 2009 15:27 CapO wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2009 15:04 JoeSaddles wrote:On January 18 2009 14:54 -orb- wrote:
Lol a clinic on how to play PvZ?
Dude you really shouldn't be giving clinics on how to play PvZ 3 days after telling everyone FE was stupid and impossible to pull off I never said anything close to that.. I said if zerg knows 100% chance it's coming he has a very good chance to beat it.. which is true. In the finals of a recent tourney the pro P FE'd, the pro Z 6 pooled cuz he knew it was coming, and crippled him enough to WIN the game. that's all i said was possible.... please dont turn the thread into a flame fest anyway, im just here to post reps and talk strategy about brood war, not argue. okay, here's me talking about brood war strategy. pvz FE build has become a standard opener. you're basically saying that the korean progamers are doing it wrong. most zerg players expect the FE build, but no way does he have a good chance to beat it. what you said is NOT true. i think you're mistaken for 13/14 nexus. please, gain some more knowledge before you make such a statement.
He bases his argument in that a 4-6 pool CAN end the game there if protoss fucks up, its not a real counter at all for top level playing but something you can do to a newbie who knows nothing put FE.
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Archon picking with mutalisk is definitely doable. I have seen some progamers pick off archons quite effectively without getting hit. (and destination is a really good map to do it)
However in a field, 4 archons > 11 mutas no matter what micro u do. In a bridge/cliff map, its doable.
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On January 18 2009 15:28 Puosu wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2009 15:27 CapO wrote:On January 18 2009 15:04 JoeSaddles wrote:On January 18 2009 14:54 -orb- wrote:
Lol a clinic on how to play PvZ?
Dude you really shouldn't be giving clinics on how to play PvZ 3 days after telling everyone FE was stupid and impossible to pull off I never said anything close to that.. I said if zerg knows 100% chance it's coming he has a very good chance to beat it.. which is true. In the finals of a recent tourney the pro P FE'd, the pro Z 6 pooled cuz he knew it was coming, and crippled him enough to WIN the game. that's all i said was possible.... please dont turn the thread into a flame fest anyway, im just here to post reps and talk strategy about brood war, not argue. okay, here's me talking about brood war strategy. pvz FE build has become a standard opener. you're basically saying that the korean progamers are doing it wrong. most zerg players expect the FE build, but no way does he have a good chance to beat it. what you said is NOT true. i think you're mistaken for 13/14 nexus. please, gain some more knowledge before you make such a statement. He bases his argument in that a 4-6 pool CAN end the game there if protoss fucks up, its not a real counter at all for top level playing but something you can do to a newbie who knows nothing put FE.
actually i base my argument off a pro league tournament where they were both pros and 6 pool won vs FE...............
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On January 18 2009 15:29 JoeSaddles wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2009 15:28 Puosu wrote:On January 18 2009 15:27 CapO wrote:On January 18 2009 15:04 JoeSaddles wrote:On January 18 2009 14:54 -orb- wrote:
Lol a clinic on how to play PvZ?
Dude you really shouldn't be giving clinics on how to play PvZ 3 days after telling everyone FE was stupid and impossible to pull off I never said anything close to that.. I said if zerg knows 100% chance it's coming he has a very good chance to beat it.. which is true. In the finals of a recent tourney the pro P FE'd, the pro Z 6 pooled cuz he knew it was coming, and crippled him enough to WIN the game. that's all i said was possible.... please dont turn the thread into a flame fest anyway, im just here to post reps and talk strategy about brood war, not argue. okay, here's me talking about brood war strategy. pvz FE build has become a standard opener. you're basically saying that the korean progamers are doing it wrong. most zerg players expect the FE build, but no way does he have a good chance to beat it. what you said is NOT true. i think you're mistaken for 13/14 nexus. please, gain some more knowledge before you make such a statement. He bases his argument in that a 4-6 pool CAN end the game there if protoss fucks up, its not a real counter at all for top level playing but something you can do to a newbie who knows nothing put FE. actually i base my argument off a pro league tournament where they were both pros and 6 pool won vs FE...............
Yeah so because it happened once it works always?
no..?
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i go pvz FE build and, u go 6 pool.
bo7??
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one sec uploading a few more reps
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On January 18 2009 15:33 JoeSaddles wrote:
one sec uploading a few more reps
Shouldn't you be playing AttackZerg right now?
Tbh. I'd be far more interested in replays versus good opponents and not random C- iccup players. :/
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please stop turning this into a flame war, you proved your point, FE is a standard build.
I proved my point, it's NOT unbeatable by any means, and can be stopped even in the pro leagues.
no more arguing ppl ive had like 4 threads closed already and its a pain to keep retyping stuff..
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On January 18 2009 15:34 JoeSaddles wrote:
please stop turning this into a flame war, you proved your point, FE is a standard build.
I proved my point, it's NOT unbeatable by any means, and can be stopped even in the pro leagues.
no more arguing ppl ive had like 4 threads closed already and its a pain to keep retyping stuff..
Ok good, I don't think anyone said its unbeatable though.
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On January 18 2009 15:33 Puosu wrote:Shouldn't you be playing AttackZerg right now? Tbh. I'd be far more interested in replays versus good opponents and not random C- iccup players. :/
I'll gladly play attackzerg tomorrow ranked games only
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Yeah saddles vs attackzerg would be awesome. No one here expects you to win a bo5 anyway but I think there would be some GG's at least.
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unless he wants to wait till i gain one more rank cuz right now were not even
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Maybe people would stop arguing if you didn't give incentives for doing so...
then the lame cop out with the "stop arguing"
that just pisses people off <_<
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EPT
