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On October 29 2013 01:57 QuanticHawk wrote:Vanek topped 40 twice, was on pace for it last year, and never had anyone close to Tavares' skillset. Roy, Pominville, etc are all good players, but Tavares is up on another level above those dudes. Vanek's also more of a pure scorer, where as Moulson tends to get a lot more of those hardnosed garbage goals, deflections, puts himself in right spots, etc. They're much different players. Vanek's a dude who can score on his own. Moulson is good, a hard worker, but needs a good center to be effective + Show Spoiler +look at some of these feeds he gets from tavares. Yeesh. Always liked Moulson, but goddamn that video just shows how good tavares is
I know Vaneks good but I feel like they paid a hefty price for a limited (european) upgrade. Its not like the guy will turn them into an offensive juggernaut either. I mean Vanek will not be the second coming of Bossy.
and hardnosed garbage goals is what gets you deep in the playoffs...
Anyways time will tell. Maybe they will trade for Ryan Smyth again and win the cup. ( LOL )
I just think Snow shouldve kept his first rounder. Or at least make it a conditional pick or something.
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lol i really dont think youve ever seen vanek play, if u think vanek isnt that big of an upgrade over moulson then i dunno.. moulson is like a peewee player compared to vanek
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On October 29 2013 04:23 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2013 01:57 QuanticHawk wrote:Vanek topped 40 twice, was on pace for it last year, and never had anyone close to Tavares' skillset. Roy, Pominville, etc are all good players, but Tavares is up on another level above those dudes. Vanek's also more of a pure scorer, where as Moulson tends to get a lot more of those hardnosed garbage goals, deflections, puts himself in right spots, etc. They're much different players. Vanek's a dude who can score on his own. Moulson is good, a hard worker, but needs a good center to be effective + Show Spoiler +http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlnVgFIX-pM look at some of these feeds he gets from tavares. Yeesh. Always liked Moulson, but goddamn that video just shows how good tavares is I know Vaneks good but I feel like they paid a hefty price for a limited (european) upgrade. Its not like the guy will turn them into an offensive juggernaut either. I mean Vanek will not be the second coming of Bossy. and hardnosed garbage goals is what gets you deep in the playoffs... Anyways time will tell. Maybe they will trade for Ryan Smyth again and win the cup. ( LOL ) I just think Snow shouldve kept his first rounder. Or at least make it a conditional pick or something.
Calling Vanek "european" pretty much cements you've never seen him play.
He is a hard nosed in the paint kind of player.
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hes a fucking workhorse, honestly im just happy hes leaving our div :D
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On October 29 2013 04:23 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2013 01:57 QuanticHawk wrote:Vanek topped 40 twice, was on pace for it last year, and never had anyone close to Tavares' skillset. Roy, Pominville, etc are all good players, but Tavares is up on another level above those dudes. Vanek's also more of a pure scorer, where as Moulson tends to get a lot more of those hardnosed garbage goals, deflections, puts himself in right spots, etc. They're much different players. Vanek's a dude who can score on his own. Moulson is good, a hard worker, but needs a good center to be effective + Show Spoiler +http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlnVgFIX-pM look at some of these feeds he gets from tavares. Yeesh. Always liked Moulson, but goddamn that video just shows how good tavares is I know Vaneks good but I feel like they paid a hefty price for a limited (european) upgrade. Its not like the guy will turn them into an offensive juggernaut either. I mean Vanek will not be the second coming of Bossy. and hardnosed garbage goals is what gets you deep in the playoffs... Anyways time will tell. Maybe they will trade for Ryan Smyth again and win the cup. ( LOL ) I just think Snow shouldve kept his first rounder. Or at least make it a conditional pick or something.
LOL, clearly this guy doesn't watch hockey.
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mob pack mentality mode: engaged
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On October 29 2013 06:49 TT1 wrote:
attack!!
![[image loading]](http://www.thomasvanek.at/typo3temp/pics/c136c32158.jpg)
Don't make Vanek bring out the cane.
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On October 29 2013 04:23 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2013 01:57 QuanticHawk wrote:Vanek topped 40 twice, was on pace for it last year, and never had anyone close to Tavares' skillset. Roy, Pominville, etc are all good players, but Tavares is up on another level above those dudes. Vanek's also more of a pure scorer, where as Moulson tends to get a lot more of those hardnosed garbage goals, deflections, puts himself in right spots, etc. They're much different players. Vanek's a dude who can score on his own. Moulson is good, a hard worker, but needs a good center to be effective + Show Spoiler +http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlnVgFIX-pM look at some of these feeds he gets from tavares. Yeesh. Always liked Moulson, but goddamn that video just shows how good tavares is I know Vaneks good but I feel like they paid a hefty price for a limited (european) upgrade. Its not like the guy will turn them into an offensive juggernaut either. I mean Vanek will not be the second coming of Bossy. and hardnosed garbage goals is what gets you deep in the playoffs... Anyways time will tell. Maybe they will trade for Ryan Smyth again and win the cup. ( LOL ) I just think Snow shouldve kept his first rounder. Or at least make it a conditional pick or something.
They have more than enough 2nd and 3rd liners who can pot those go hard to the net goals. Not sure why being European is a knock. Dude has skill that is unrivaled by Moulson, or anyone else not tavares there.
this dude summed it up well:
On October 29 2013 04:09 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2013 01:24 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:
Despite what people think, the skillgap between the two is not that big. Vanek had one exceptional season ( when they had a solid club who made it to the semis with Briere and Drury ) but on average he seems to be in the same class as Moulson : 25 to 35 goals with 55 to 65 points. Saying Vanek only had one exceptional season is a bit unfair. He is 5th in the league in goals scored since the '06-07 season (ahead of players including Malkin, Crosby, Sedin, Nash, Staal, Perry, Hossa), 2nd in powerplay goals, and 4th in shooting percentage. He has been consistently exceptional for the Sabres. You can make the argument that the Islanders overpaid if Vanek does not resign, but I wouldn't consider the two players to be in the same class.
Gotta agree with otheres, you havent seen him play enough if you think there is a marginal difference. If they resign him, I think it's a good trade.
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Discussed the topic with my brother today and he agreed with me they overpaid. Theyre gonna get like 15 more goals out of him than they wouldve gotten from Moulson ( and the sabres are likely to get another 1st rounder at the deadline )
Sure he is better than Moulson, Im not denying it but the price for that upgrade is steep.
I also feel like its a whole fucking lot to pay in october ( was the Vanek derby so fierce he had to throw his first 2 picks in the deal?? )
And said peewee scored more points than Vanek the last 2 seasons.
I dont say its a bad move. I say they overpaid.
Just consider this : in 2008 at the deadline, the pens got Hossa and Dupuis. They gave away a cpl 3-4 line guys ( armstrong and christensen) a bad prospect ( angelo esposito ) and a 1st.
Im not trying to bash on Vanek saying hes marginally better than Moulson ( maybe I did lol ), Im just saying Garth Snow got robbed in that deal.
And I honestly think they have a better chance at resigning Moulson than Vanek at the end of the year.( my opinion though )
You might also be right and Vanek is what tips them over to the 2nd round.
edit: but as one of my buddies told me : They wan to move to brooklyn with a bang.
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On October 29 2013 08:20 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:
Discussed the topic with my brother today and he agreed with me they overpaid. Theyre gonna get like 15 more goals out of him than they wouldve gotten from Moulson ( and the sabres are likely to get another 1st rounder at the deadline )
Sure he is better than Moulson, Im not denying it but the price for that upgrade is steep.
I also feel like its a whole fucking lot to pay in october ( was the Vanek derby so fierce he had to throw his first 2 picks in the deal?? )
And said peewee scored more points than Vanek the last 2 seasons.
I dont say its a bad move. I say they overpaid.
Just consider this : in 2008 at the deadline, the pens got Hossa and Dupuis. They gave away a cpl 3-4 line guys ( armstrong and christensen) a bad prospect ( angelo esposito ) and a 1st.
Im not trying to bash on Vanek saying hes marginally better than Moulson ( maybe I did lol ), Im just saying Garth Snow got robbed in that deal.
And I honestly think they have a better chance at resigning Moulson than Vanek at the end of the year.( my opinion though )
You might also be right and Vanek is what tips them over to the 2nd round.
Sorry but holding up Don Waddel as some kind of trading genius is just wrong. The guy's ineptitude with the Thrashers was epic. He is Oilers/Flames level of GM incompetence.
Hanzel gets suspended 2 games for leaving the ice on a hit, but without actually hurting anyone and with no priors. Lapierrier puts Boyle in the hospital and gets 5 game. Shanahan's wheel of justice turns some more!
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On October 29 2013 08:24 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2013 08:20 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:
Discussed the topic with my brother today and he agreed with me they overpaid. Theyre gonna get like 15 more goals out of him than they wouldve gotten from Moulson ( and the sabres are likely to get another 1st rounder at the deadline )
Sure he is better than Moulson, Im not denying it but the price for that upgrade is steep.
I also feel like its a whole fucking lot to pay in october ( was the Vanek derby so fierce he had to throw his first 2 picks in the deal?? )
And said peewee scored more points than Vanek the last 2 seasons.
I dont say its a bad move. I say they overpaid.
Just consider this : in 2008 at the deadline, the pens got Hossa and Dupuis. They gave away a cpl 3-4 line guys ( armstrong and christensen) a bad prospect ( angelo esposito ) and a 1st.
Im not trying to bash on Vanek saying hes marginally better than Moulson ( maybe I did lol ), Im just saying Garth Snow got robbed in that deal.
And I honestly think they have a better chance at resigning Moulson than Vanek at the end of the year.( my opinion though )
You might also be right and Vanek is what tips them over to the 2nd round. Sorry but holding up Don Waddel as some kind of trading genius is just wrong. The guy's ineptitude with the Thrashers was epic. He is Oilers/Flames level of GM incompetence. Hanzel gets suspended 2 games for leaving the ice on a hit, but without actually hurting anyone and with no priors. Lapierrier puts Boyle in the hospital and gets 5 game. Shanahan's wheel of justice turns some more!
Dont think wadel is a genius. I am saying Garth Snow is a moron. He paid roughly the same price the pens paid for a rental Hossa... ( while Hossa was the hottest commodity on the trade deadline market )
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And I am saying that was a terrible comparison because if Waddel wasnt an idiot he would have gotten more out of that trade, and its not the Pens fault that Hossa jumped to the Red Wings in 09. Who wouldnt have, hockey players at that point still believed Holland and Babcock knew what they were doing instead overelying on two close-to-retirement D-men.
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
Who knows how much truth there is to this, but the Sabres reportedly offered to make Vanek the highest paid player in the league (+9.5/yr). Pretty depressing as a Sabres fan if he turned that down, even if he clearly isn't worth that much.
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On October 29 2013 08:31 kitaman27 wrote:
Who knows how much truth there is to this, but the Sabres reportedly offered to make Vanek the highest paid player in the league (+9.5/yr). Pretty depressing as a Sabres fan if he turned that down, even if he clearly isn't worth that much.
did you guys a favor. your team needs to be completely blown up.
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On October 29 2013 08:31 kitaman27 wrote:
Who knows how much truth there is to this, but the Sabres reportedly offered to make Vanek the highest paid player in the league (+9.5/yr). Pretty depressing as a Sabres fan if he turned that down, even if he clearly isn't worth that much.
lol if theres any truth to that then gg isles
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On October 29 2013 04:09 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2013 01:24 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:
Despite what people think, the skillgap between the two is not that big. Vanek had one exceptional season ( when they had a solid club who made it to the semis with Briere and Drury ) but on average he seems to be in the same class as Moulson : 25 to 35 goals with 55 to 65 points. Saying Vanek only had one exceptional season is a bit unfair. He is 5th in the league in goals scored since the '06-07 season (ahead of players including Malkin, Crosby, Sedin, Nash, Staal, Perry, Hossa), 2nd in powerplay goals, and 4th in shooting percentage. He has been consistently exceptional for the Sabres. You can make the argument that the Islanders overpaid if Vanek does not resign, but I wouldn't consider the two players to be in the same class.
How's it unfair? He's only hit 80 points once in his career, and that was 7 years ago. He's 5th in goals scored since 06-07 because that and the year after were when he was an elite goal scorer, and since then he's been a good goal scorer. The reason he's ahead of players like Crosby and Malkin is because they had some injury problems. Incidentally, even in 07-08 when Crosby only played 53 games, he still got 8 more points than Vanek, who played the whole season.
Saying that he has the 5th most goals in the league since 7 years ago is just interesting from a stats perspective; it has little meaning what it comes to actual value of a player. Vanek is obviously still a very good player and he may excel while playing with Tavares, but not because of how many goals he scored some years ago.
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On October 29 2013 08:29 Sub40APM wrote:
And I am saying that was a terrible comparison because if Waddel wasnt an idiot he would have gotten more out of that trade, and its not the Pens fault that Hossa jumped to the Red Wings in 09. Who wouldnt have, hockey players at that point still believed Holland and Babcock knew what they were doing instead overelying on two close-to-retirement D-men.
You're really starting to sound like Jimmy the way you harp on about Detroit constantly.
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On October 29 2013 10:53 GolemMadness wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2013 08:29 Sub40APM wrote:
And I am saying that was a terrible comparison because if Waddel wasnt an idiot he would have gotten more out of that trade, and its not the Pens fault that Hossa jumped to the Red Wings in 09. Who wouldnt have, hockey players at that point still believed Holland and Babcock knew what they were doing instead overelying on two close-to-retirement D-men. You're really starting to sound like Jimmy the way you harp on about Detroit constantly.
harsh and unfair. Detroit has been a franchise in peril for the last 3 years, but it hasnt stopped the casual NHL watcher or the broadcasters from talking about what a great GM Holland is and how year after year they keep steady. They arent. They are getting worse. And a large part of that is Holland's addiction to older players that not only suck but eat up ice time from young players that you might want to eventual play. Even when they make big money signings, the signings are for unnecessary players like Alferdson and Samuelson. Its especially annoying because its pretty obvious that we are in the twilight of Datsyuks' career and as things are going he will never win another cup.
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EPT
