EPTSimple Questions, Simple Answers - Page 73
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CaffeineFree-_-
United States712 Posts
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fazek42
Hungary440 Posts
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CaffeineFree-_-
United States712 Posts
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Puyi
United States175 Posts
also, whats a decent amount of workers for each mu? i know that as a d ranker i should never stop making workers but theres times when i had just got my entire army killed and still 120 supply like 90+ workers | ||
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doubleupgradeobbies!
Australia1361 Posts
On March 29 2012 10:38 Puyi wrote: i actually have the opposite problem as fazek. when do i take my 3rd on tvz? i usually have constant scv production but find my main mined out around the time i take my 3rd. also, whats a decent amount of workers for each mu? i know that as a d ranker i should never stop making workers but theres times when i had just got my entire army killed and still 120 supply like 90+ workers 3 fully saturated(slightly oversaturated really) bases worth of workers is all you'll really need in TvZ and TvP, I have no idea about TvT as I find it to be a more messy, less solved MU. Realistically I don't think the 'D ranker should keeping making workers' philosophy is a good one, generally solid D rankers these days have decent enough mechanics to reach this limit if they get into the late mid-game. Probably not a good idea to cut workers at any stage, but once you have enough workers, you should definitely stop building more. As to how you will know in the middle of a game, this pretty much comes down to feel, hopefully you just get a better feel for it as you play more | ||
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6NR
United States1472 Posts
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hacklebeast
United States5090 Posts
On March 29 2012 14:33 6NR wrote: When is the next set of broadcast games in broodwar in korea? Thanks. april 8th 18 kst http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=323603 the qualifiers for the next osl be broadcasted before then, but they tend to not show full games. | ||
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rebdomine
6040 Posts
On March 29 2012 16:02 hacklebeast wrote: april 8th 18 kst http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=323603 the qualifiers for the next osl be broadcasted before then, but they tend to not show full games. I thought PL finals were April 7th? | ||
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Puyi
United States175 Posts
On March 29 2012 13:55 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote: 3 fully saturated(slightly oversaturated really) bases worth of workers is all you'll really need in TvZ and TvP, I have no idea about TvT as I find it to be a more messy, less solved MU. Realistically I don't think the 'D ranker should keeping making workers' philosophy is a good one, generally solid D rankers these days have decent enough mechanics to reach this limit if they get into the late mid-game. Probably not a good idea to cut workers at any stage, but once you have enough workers, you should definitely stop building more. As to how you will know in the middle of a game, this pretty much comes down to feel, hopefully you just get a better feel for it as you play more what about pvt? should i ever stop making probes? even after 3 bases saturated? because normally a P has 5 bases. plus the potential of vulture harass sniping probes. but terran mech is so cost effective that i wanna have as much supply as i can to my army. | ||
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Rainalcar
Croatia560 Posts
On March 27 2012 20:04 Rainalcar wrote: Could you recommend as terran favoured as possible map with the following specs: 4 player Open 128x128 or less Easily wallable main vs zealots, lings if possible but not a must Safe 2nd expo with gas so that a 1rax fe can be easily utilised Broken apart middle with plenty of chokes so that ground armies are difficult to maneuver Harassable cliffs for siege tanks I repeat the request, thanks again | ||
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doubleupgradeobbies!
Australia1361 Posts
On March 29 2012 20:20 Puyi wrote: what about pvt? should i ever stop making probes? even after 3 bases saturated? because normally a P has 5 bases. plus the potential of vulture harass sniping probes. but terran mech is so cost effective that i wanna have as much supply as i can to my army. pvt is kinda tricky, just over 3 bases saturated is what you want to aim for. But obviously you need to replace lost probes. Some people like to constantly have roughly 3 bases fully saturated, I prefer to have as many has 4 or 5 mining bases with less saturation. But for all I know that might only work at low levels, where taking expos might expose a timing that T's could abuse at higher levels. For me personally, I prefer to have about 3 bases worth of fully saturated probes, less sometimes, and just gain a bonus from low saturation over many bases, this allows me to maximise the size of my army to more easily break pushes, but I know alot of people prefer to have heavy saturation off just 1 more base than T because expoing is often risky. | ||
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hacklebeast
United States5090 Posts
sounds like you want hunters. | ||
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jello_biafra
United Kingdom6642 Posts
Uh...Lost Temple? | ||
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Jealous
10401 Posts
On March 29 2012 20:20 Puyi wrote: what about pvt? should i ever stop making probes? even after 3 bases saturated? because normally a P has 5 bases. plus the potential of vulture harass sniping probes. but terran mech is so cost effective that i wanna have as much supply as i can to my army. Okay, something I read a long time ago says something along these lines for saturation: Protoss and Terran should aim to have 2-2.5 Probes/SCVs per mineral patch. Zerg should aim for 1.5, as they have more bases. I don't think any race should go over 70-80 workers. Your army size will be too limited. With a poor army size, your army retention rate will be low in PvZ and your attacks less damaging in PvT (in head-to-head engagements, at least). Although it's true you might be able to macro up faster and for more rounds, in PvZ this is disadvantageous due to Templar energy and the fact that you need to form Archons, and in PvT it means that you are less likely to take out a good number of his tanks (and vults reproduce faster than P armies), and a hanbang will be too weak as well (sometimes you can win the whole game by taking out all of a Terran's tanks, only possible with good army count). Taking bases is just as important for mining as it is for claiming territory and making sure your enemy doesn't get to them, should it get to the late game. In PvT for example, taking a second main is often crucial so you can have more gateways + easy flank set-up. So, take bases, transfer probes so your probe count is relatively even between all your bases. Some more advantages of having multiple bases with lower saturation: 1. Your probe production is greater, should you lose a lot of them. 2. Your probes are less clumped up and there are fewer per base, so siege tank drops/vult harass/mines exploding in your mineral line are that much less damaging to your economy. 3. Easier to run probes away during harass. 4. Your mining efficiency WILL go up. The reason 2.5 is considered "full saturation" is because I believe that any more than that adds barely any minerals per minute. This means that every resource field is being mined, all the time. However, if you have say 80 patches and 1 probe at each patch, there will never be a moment when that probe is not mining or not returning minerals. Having 2 probes on some more distant/oddly angled patches achieves this also, but not always. Therefore, I theorize that lower saturation at more bases is almost always advantageous vs greater saturation at few bases, or at least never disadvantageous. 5. You will be able to keep those bases for longer, so if you are having difficulty expanding again, then you are not so pressured as if you would be on 2 nearly-mined-out fully saturated bases, for example. Sorry I kinda went off on a rant there but I figured that would explain what I am pretty sure is the mentality behind saturation, expanding, and probe count. | ||
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Rainalcar
Croatia560 Posts
No, not hunters, not more then 4 players, and I would like an ordinary map in terms of minerals/gas, where you need to expand to get money. 2 gas in main I can bear, but not 10x3000 minerals patches in main. | ||
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Rainalcar
Croatia560 Posts
No, by safe 2nd I mean behind main like God's, or "in main", like Acro. | ||
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hacklebeast
United States5090 Posts
On March 30 2012 04:33 Rainalcar wrote: No, not hunters, not more then 4 players, and I would like an ordinary map in terms of minerals/gas, where you need to expand to get money. 2 gas in main I can bear, but not 10x3000 minerals patches in main. hunters is not the same as big game hunters. edit: oh you want a back door expo. That really cuts it down. Katrina is the closest you are going to get I guess. It is going to be hard to find a map with both harass cliffs and a back door expo. | ||
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Jealous
10401 Posts
On March 30 2012 04:34 Rainalcar wrote: No, by safe 2nd I mean behind main like God's, or "in main", like Acro. There is no cliff, but Arcadia II has a very thin wall that you can have air units to spot, and the nat and third are conjoined pretty much within your "base." There are also islands. Another good option is Othello, which is semi-blocked cliff and complete cliff on third. Was considered T >> P at least iirc, not sure about TvZ. No backdoor third, but like hackle said the options are limited there. Another great map with a backdoor 3rd is Loki II, but there are no cliffable bases. Sorry man, can't have the cake and eat it too  Imba maps are boring anyways. That's why there are so few maps (LT, God's [partially] from what I can tell being the only ones) that fit your criteria. What're you trying to achieve? | ||
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Rainalcar
Croatia560 Posts
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Jealous
10401 Posts
On March 30 2012 05:18 Rainalcar wrote: I'm trying to find a 1v2 map to play vs my friends. I found some good ones for Zerg and Protoss 1v2 with the help of people here. I know our limits and our play patterns, that is why I need a map with above characteristics where I can wallin, build 4 marines, build safe CC, and go probably Siege (or Vulture Drop). LT, God's Garden, Katrina and Loki are your best bets then. | ||
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