On May 11 2026 08:20 hda wrote:
Watching progamers play on a 4-player map, they almost always expand vertically. Why is this? That is, if they've cross-spawned on Knock Out or FS, they tend to choose to take their third base on a position vertical to their home base, rather than horizontally.

Say they spawn at 11 o'clock, take their natural, then will go down to expand at 7 o'clock. Similarly, if they spawn at 1 o'clock, their third will be at 5 o'clock. For simplicity, let's assume moreso in ZvT or PvT, as Zerg and Protoss, respectively in these match-ups, will often expand more aggressively across the map, as opposed to the nearby ramp-protected single bases (3, 6, 9, 12 o'clock).

Illustration for reference:

Why do players rarely expand horizontally? If they've spawned at 11 o'clock, why not take the 1 o'clock instead? Is it easier for mouse movement vertically than horizontally? Or something more strategy/tactic related? Is the travel distance shorter, even if on a square 128x128 map?

Noticed this over the years, but didn't understand why. Tried some Google and TL searches, but no hits...

Any input appreciated!

If you know starcraft mechanics, units from the top fire more successfully than units from the bottom. I think Tasteless did a video on ai analysis, it is on that. You push your opponent into a worse engagement.

iopq

United States1132 Posts

July 06 2026 10:58 GMT

#9746

Tell me what I could think about to win this game

https://repmastered.icza.net/game/YyxIXo42hwqkgIN86czLhNKN3csCVy40Oh5VXTKHVZ0

I watched the replay again and nothing jumps out other than losing some units here and there. There must be a strategy to win when I had a much higher supply and income. Ball up and surround his army? Counter into his main? Drop into back expo?

What are we thinking

RavingGoon

2 Posts

July 21 2026 03:58 GMT

#9747

hey guys, D rank P here, nearly every PvP i play im getting manner pyloned(sometimes 2, sometimes a gas steal too) and it's really frustrating, i hate it so much that i won't even do it to my opponent, even though he deserves it, i will steal his gas though. It takes a bit to clean up too because i like to keep my first Zealot at ramp to block the incoming lots from the opponent. Wondering what's the best way to deal with this, i've begun blocking my ramp with 2 probes to stop the scouting probe coming in at all, interested to hear what others do in this situtation, thanks

evilfatsh1t

Australia8916 Posts

July 21 2026 04:10 GMT

#9748

for prevention the best thing is to occasionally let a probe stand on the manner pylon spot if you see the opponents probe walk towards it. block him from building it and then return to mining and repeat.

dont block your ramp with 2 probes. its not worth it. basically the equivalent to a self manner pylon

RavingGoon

2 Posts

July 21 2026 10:44 GMT

#9749

Ok I'll give that a shot, i tend to overreact when the probe is there and pull too many probes to obstruct or kill the probe, it really messes me up

Jealous

10355 Posts

July 21 2026 12:40 GMT

#9750

On July 21 2026 19:44 RavingGoon wrote:
Ok I'll give that a shot, i tend to overreact when the probe is there and pull too many probes to obstruct or kill the probe, it really messes me up

Some basic guidelines:

1. Never chase the enemy Probe with your own Probe. Just stop a Probe that is on its way to a mineral in the spot where the manner Pylon is viable. Use mineral line Probes to attack the enemy Probe only when it is near them and won't require them to move away from the mineral line. When he moves away from the attack, go back to mining.

2. Use only the trapped Probe (if there is one) to attack the Pylon, not multiple.

3. Consider the fact that your opponent spent 100 early minerals on an extra Pylon which they will eventually lose. This investment will be roughly equal to the productivity losses you will incur from long-distance mining if you destroy the Pylon within a reasonable time window (depending on several factors). In other words, there is no need to panic or overcommit to destroying the Pylon.

4. You should never have more than one Probe stuck behind a manner Pylon long-term. The first thing to do if it goes up is to stack the trapped Probes on a mineral corner (by spamming right click on a mineral, then the mineral which completes the corner) and then spam move command to the ground (not the mineral) on the other side of the mineral line. This will make them de-stack and hover, often freeing all of them but at the very least all but one (eventually).

5. Blocking your ramp isn't an absolute necessity in all cases. As evilfatshit said, you should NEVER be blocking your ramp with 2 Probes just on the off-chance that they are planning to manner Pylon/Assimilator. Your first Zealot can go directly to killing the Pylon, disregarding the ramp, in most cases. Remember that walk distance is a thing; there is a good chance your second Zealot will be out at or around the time their first Zealot makes it to your base. Plus, you'll have to learn how to do defensive micro in your base eventually anyway. Just keep an eye on his build with your own scouting Probe and react accordingly.

6. You can also counter-manner-Pylon on many maps by placing your own Pylon adjacent to your Nexus in a way that prevents them from placing theirs, though this will often hamper your mining efficiency slightly through your own actions. It's still not as much as an offensive manner Pylon, but it is also permanent and your own 100 mineral investment at a time when you might not necessarily want to make it.

7. If he invests in both stealing the gas AND a manner Pylon, then he is even MORE behind on his build order. He had to delay his own gas, or his first Zealot, or his Cybernetics Core, etc. You can just go 2 Gate and beat him on production, clear up the offending buildings, and then counter-pressure. And/Or, you can do what Terrans do sometimes and go for an earlier second Nexus in your nat to get access to more minerals and more gas than the opponent in the long-term (they will start collecting gas first and mine more efficiently early on, but you will have the option of collecting from two geysers and mining from two mineral lines before they do, so your income will outpace theirs for a while to make up for the earlier deficit).

Perhaps the best way to illustrate all of this to you is if you try doing it to your enemies yourself to see the impact that a manner Pylon has on the builder's economy and build order.

naventus

United States1339 Posts

August 01 2026 06:25 GMT

#9751

Haven't played in years but was having some interest in watching recent games.

Have a question about late game TvZ when the game gets stalemated with SKT. I see players just keep slamming Vessels and they become difficult to control and vulnerable to plague. And then there's the struggle with too much multitasking to deal with Ultra + Dark Swarm in multiple locations.

I know full mech transition has its own weaknesses, but why not slow Vessel production and produce Vultures+Tanks from a few factories when the game is stalemated? You can set up mines for runbys and take frontal engagement with enough tanks. Instead of relying on Goliath like with pure mech, you continue to use bio. Do the upgrades matter that much if it's still bio frontlining?

What's wrong with this picture such that no one does this?

Jealous

10355 Posts

August 01 2026 11:12 GMT

#9752

On August 01 2026 15:25 naventus wrote:
Haven't played in years but was having some interest in watching recent games.

Have a question about late game TvZ when the game gets stalemated with SKT. I see players just keep slamming Vessels and they become difficult to control and vulnerable to plague. And then there's the struggle with too much multitasking to deal with Ultra + Dark Swarm in multiple locations.

I know full mech transition has its own weaknesses, but why not slow Vessel production and produce Vultures+Tanks from a few factories when the game is stalemated? You can set up mines for runbys and take frontal engagement with enough tanks. Instead of relying on Goliath like with pure mech, you continue to use bio. Do the upgrades matter that much if it's still bio frontlining?

What's wrong with this picture such that no one does this?

Would help to share some VODs or reps.