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Simple Questions, Simple Answers - Page 487

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
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Jealous
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
10336 Posts
March 20 2026 17:18 GMT
#9721
On March 21 2026 01:44 FlaShFTW wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 20 2026 00:24 evilfatsh1t wrote:
On March 19 2026 23:42 Jealous wrote:
On March 19 2026 21:20 mtcn77 wrote:
On March 19 2026 12:05 Jealous wrote:
On March 19 2026 08:08 mtcn77 wrote:
On March 19 2026 02:55 Jealous wrote:
On March 18 2026 08:46 mtcn77 wrote:
On March 17 2026 14:39 Jealous wrote:
On March 17 2026 12:02 mtcn77 wrote:
[quote]
The mechanics of pvt vs pvz are totally different. Due to recent theory setbacks, protoss players cripple their economy with crap FE builds however as a whole, the order of economic advantage is p>z>t when it comes to vespene gas expansions. Terrans need the armory since the flash revolution is making the most of what little economy terrans have a.k.a siege tanks. Protoss is not like that. There was a Best game somewhere that proved you are almost not warranted to upgrade vs zerg. You just need to rush your economy. Terrans are the polar opposite. You try keeping your tanks alive.

Would love to see this PvZ from Best where upgrades were not warranted.

Good news and bad news. It was Mini vs Ssak game most likely. He is 1-1 at 21 minute mark. I had it marked up in my mind as no upgrade at 14 minute mark game. Let me rewatch the final game and get back to you.

Hold on. So, if I am understanding correctly, your evidence for why upgrades are "almost not warranted" in PvZ... is a PvT between Mini and Ssak?

Well, I could only remember from Ssak's name. Normally I thought it was a Best game and last asl he mostly played pvz. I never claimed I had good memory.

I'm still confused as to how anything between Mini, Best, and Ssak could have any bearing on PvZ upgrades, but maybe it is a mutual language barrier. Can you explain one more time why upgrades are not warranted in PvZ?

I think I solved why I brought pvz into the frame. My mind picked up from where I left off the last time I tried explaining things. If you look heretl.net, I did a deep dive on pvz upgrades. I must have struck a bias and remembered that while trying to remember a pvt example.


good job on recalling that reference. its literally the perfect response to all mtcns posts

Responding to mtcn in general is a losing EV play.

Hilariously, this appears to be true on other forums and in other games too. You can feel the frustration in the responses provided by Brugle here:
https://caesar3.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/caeforumscgi/display.cgi?action=st&fn=2&tn=7908

Brugle wrote:
...I have no idea what this means...
"The right to vote is only the oar of the slaveship, I wanna be free." -- бум бум сучка!
mtcn77
Profile Joined September 2013
Turkey719 Posts
March 20 2026 18:07 GMT
#9722
On March 21 2026 02:18 Jealous wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 21 2026 01:44 FlaShFTW wrote:
On March 20 2026 00:24 evilfatsh1t wrote:
On March 19 2026 23:42 Jealous wrote:
On March 19 2026 21:20 mtcn77 wrote:
On March 19 2026 12:05 Jealous wrote:
On March 19 2026 08:08 mtcn77 wrote:
On March 19 2026 02:55 Jealous wrote:
On March 18 2026 08:46 mtcn77 wrote:
On March 17 2026 14:39 Jealous wrote:
[quote]
Would love to see this PvZ from Best where upgrades were not warranted.

Good news and bad news. It was Mini vs Ssak game most likely. He is 1-1 at 21 minute mark. I had it marked up in my mind as no upgrade at 14 minute mark game. Let me rewatch the final game and get back to you.
https://youtu.be/watch?v=mNZm94_cXk8&pp=ygUQbWluaSBzc2FrIGFzbCAyMA==

Hold on. So, if I am understanding correctly, your evidence for why upgrades are "almost not warranted" in PvZ... is a PvT between Mini and Ssak?

Well, I could only remember from Ssak's name. Normally I thought it was a Best game and last asl he mostly played pvz. I never claimed I had good memory.

I'm still confused as to how anything between Mini, Best, and Ssak could have any bearing on PvZ upgrades, but maybe it is a mutual language barrier. Can you explain one more time why upgrades are not warranted in PvZ?

I think I solved why I brought pvz into the frame. My mind picked up from where I left off the last time I tried explaining things. If you look heretl.net, I did a deep dive on pvz upgrades. I must have struck a bias and remembered that while trying to remember a pvt example.

https://youtu.be/LQCU36pkH7c?si=re4nh63POzCkRTcY

good job on recalling that reference. its literally the perfect response to all mtcns posts

Responding to mtcn in general is a losing EV play.

Hilariously, this appears to be true on other forums and in other games too. You can feel the frustration in the responses provided by Brugle here:
https://caesar3.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/caeforumscgi/display.cgi?action=st&fn=2&tn=7908

Show nested quote +
Brugle wrote:
...I have no idea what this means...

You can also see game files I posted there. I back what I say regardless of whether you can keep up.
Turrican
evilfatsh1t
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia8889 Posts
March 21 2026 05:28 GMT
#9723
On March 21 2026 02:18 Jealous wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 21 2026 01:44 FlaShFTW wrote:
On March 20 2026 00:24 evilfatsh1t wrote:
On March 19 2026 23:42 Jealous wrote:
On March 19 2026 21:20 mtcn77 wrote:
On March 19 2026 12:05 Jealous wrote:
On March 19 2026 08:08 mtcn77 wrote:
On March 19 2026 02:55 Jealous wrote:
On March 18 2026 08:46 mtcn77 wrote:
On March 17 2026 14:39 Jealous wrote:
[quote]
Would love to see this PvZ from Best where upgrades were not warranted.

Good news and bad news. It was Mini vs Ssak game most likely. He is 1-1 at 21 minute mark. I had it marked up in my mind as no upgrade at 14 minute mark game. Let me rewatch the final game and get back to you.
https://youtu.be/watch?v=mNZm94_cXk8&pp=ygUQbWluaSBzc2FrIGFzbCAyMA==

Hold on. So, if I am understanding correctly, your evidence for why upgrades are "almost not warranted" in PvZ... is a PvT between Mini and Ssak?

Well, I could only remember from Ssak's name. Normally I thought it was a Best game and last asl he mostly played pvz. I never claimed I had good memory.

I'm still confused as to how anything between Mini, Best, and Ssak could have any bearing on PvZ upgrades, but maybe it is a mutual language barrier. Can you explain one more time why upgrades are not warranted in PvZ?

I think I solved why I brought pvz into the frame. My mind picked up from where I left off the last time I tried explaining things. If you look heretl.net, I did a deep dive on pvz upgrades. I must have struck a bias and remembered that while trying to remember a pvt example.

https://youtu.be/LQCU36pkH7c?si=re4nh63POzCkRTcY

good job on recalling that reference. its literally the perfect response to all mtcns posts

Responding to mtcn in general is a losing EV play.

Hilariously, this appears to be true on other forums and in other games too. You can feel the frustration in the responses provided by Brugle here:
https://caesar3.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/caeforumscgi/display.cgi?action=st&fn=2&tn=7908

Show nested quote +
Brugle wrote:
...I have no idea what this means...

how did you even find these posts wtf
mtcn77
Profile Joined September 2013
Turkey719 Posts
March 21 2026 05:55 GMT
#9724
On March 21 2026 14:28 evilfatsh1t wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 21 2026 02:18 Jealous wrote:
On March 21 2026 01:44 FlaShFTW wrote:
On March 20 2026 00:24 evilfatsh1t wrote:
On March 19 2026 23:42 Jealous wrote:
On March 19 2026 21:20 mtcn77 wrote:
On March 19 2026 12:05 Jealous wrote:
On March 19 2026 08:08 mtcn77 wrote:
On March 19 2026 02:55 Jealous wrote:
On March 18 2026 08:46 mtcn77 wrote:
[quote]
Good news and bad news. It was Mini vs Ssak game most likely. He is 1-1 at 21 minute mark. I had it marked up in my mind as no upgrade at 14 minute mark game. Let me rewatch the final game and get back to you.
https://youtu.be/watch?v=mNZm94_cXk8&pp=ygUQbWluaSBzc2FrIGFzbCAyMA==

Hold on. So, if I am understanding correctly, your evidence for why upgrades are "almost not warranted" in PvZ... is a PvT between Mini and Ssak?

Well, I could only remember from Ssak's name. Normally I thought it was a Best game and last asl he mostly played pvz. I never claimed I had good memory.

I'm still confused as to how anything between Mini, Best, and Ssak could have any bearing on PvZ upgrades, but maybe it is a mutual language barrier. Can you explain one more time why upgrades are not warranted in PvZ?

I think I solved why I brought pvz into the frame. My mind picked up from where I left off the last time I tried explaining things. If you look heretl.net, I did a deep dive on pvz upgrades. I must have struck a bias and remembered that while trying to remember a pvt example.

https://youtu.be/LQCU36pkH7c?si=re4nh63POzCkRTcY

good job on recalling that reference. its literally the perfect response to all mtcns posts

Responding to mtcn in general is a losing EV play.

Hilariously, this appears to be true on other forums and in other games too. You can feel the frustration in the responses provided by Brugle here:
https://caesar3.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/caeforumscgi/display.cgi?action=st&fn=2&tn=7908

Brugle wrote:
...I have no idea what this means...

how did you even find these posts wtf

I've said before I finished those games and I use the same alias. It is expected of caesar 3 players to post there.
Turrican
TonDan04
Profile Joined October 2025
51 Posts
April 16 2026 23:01 GMT
#9725
as Terran, if a protoss double gateway zealot rush at center on Fighting Spirit, what is the best response?
iopq
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States1120 Posts
April 18 2026 07:04 GMT
#9726
On April 17 2026 08:01 TonDan04 wrote:
as Terran, if a protoss double gateway zealot rush at center on Fighting Spirit, what is the best response?


Best response is a full wall of course, but if you didn't wall completely, barracks/supply depot walls everywhere

if you get gas stolen, a second barracks probably is in order
FlaShFTW
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States10495 Posts
April 20 2026 04:52 GMT
#9727
On April 17 2026 08:01 TonDan04 wrote:
as Terran, if a protoss double gateway zealot rush at center on Fighting Spirit, what is the best response?

bunker ASAP. Make nonstop marine. Get factory up to make vulture. Either the zealots kill you or you get enough units to counter and kill the central pylon. Vultures can also be used to runby and kill all their probes.
Writer#1 KT and FlaSh Fanboy || Woo Jung Ho Never Forget || Teamliquid Political Decision Desk
TL+ Member
FlaShFTW
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States10495 Posts
April 20 2026 04:52 GMT
#9728
On March 21 2026 02:18 Jealous wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 21 2026 01:44 FlaShFTW wrote:
On March 20 2026 00:24 evilfatsh1t wrote:
On March 19 2026 23:42 Jealous wrote:
On March 19 2026 21:20 mtcn77 wrote:
On March 19 2026 12:05 Jealous wrote:
On March 19 2026 08:08 mtcn77 wrote:
On March 19 2026 02:55 Jealous wrote:
On March 18 2026 08:46 mtcn77 wrote:
On March 17 2026 14:39 Jealous wrote:
[quote]
Would love to see this PvZ from Best where upgrades were not warranted.

Good news and bad news. It was Mini vs Ssak game most likely. He is 1-1 at 21 minute mark. I had it marked up in my mind as no upgrade at 14 minute mark game. Let me rewatch the final game and get back to you.
https://youtu.be/watch?v=mNZm94_cXk8&pp=ygUQbWluaSBzc2FrIGFzbCAyMA==

Hold on. So, if I am understanding correctly, your evidence for why upgrades are "almost not warranted" in PvZ... is a PvT between Mini and Ssak?

Well, I could only remember from Ssak's name. Normally I thought it was a Best game and last asl he mostly played pvz. I never claimed I had good memory.

I'm still confused as to how anything between Mini, Best, and Ssak could have any bearing on PvZ upgrades, but maybe it is a mutual language barrier. Can you explain one more time why upgrades are not warranted in PvZ?

I think I solved why I brought pvz into the frame. My mind picked up from where I left off the last time I tried explaining things. If you look heretl.net, I did a deep dive on pvz upgrades. I must have struck a bias and remembered that while trying to remember a pvt example.

https://youtu.be/LQCU36pkH7c?si=re4nh63POzCkRTcY

good job on recalling that reference. its literally the perfect response to all mtcns posts

Responding to mtcn in general is a losing EV play.

Hilariously, this appears to be true on other forums and in other games too. You can feel the frustration in the responses provided by Brugle here:
https://caesar3.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/caeforumscgi/display.cgi?action=st&fn=2&tn=7908

Show nested quote +
Brugle wrote:
...I have no idea what this means...

I expect nothing less.
Writer#1 KT and FlaSh Fanboy || Woo Jung Ho Never Forget || Teamliquid Political Decision Desk
TL+ Member
WGT-Baal
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
France3499 Posts
April 22 2026 16:05 GMT
#9729
Random hand position question:

What is your default finger placement on the keyboard?
Poll: Finger placement

Home row (asdf) (3)
 
43%

Qwer (0)
 
0%

1234 (2)
 
29%

"FPS" style (wasd) (1)
 
14%

Other (please detail) (1)
 
14%

7 total votes

Your vote: Finger placement

(Vote): Home row (asdf)
(Vote): Qwer
(Vote): 1234
(Vote): "FPS" style (wasd)
(Vote): Other (please detail)



Horang2 fan
evilfatsh1t
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia8889 Posts
April 23 2026 06:26 GMT
#9730
people have default finger placements?
i feel like 1234 qwer asdf wasd are all the same to me. my hand is in the same spot for all 4. fingers are just wherever they need to be depending on what im doing
WGT-Baal
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
France3499 Posts
April 23 2026 12:49 GMT
#9731
On April 23 2026 15:26 evilfatsh1t wrote:
people have default finger placements?
i feel like 1234 qwer asdf wasd are all the same to me. my hand is in the same spot for all 4. fingers are just wherever they need to be depending on what im doing


I don't know hence the poll.

But i ll agree i wasn't sure how to phrase it, so i ll try:

I meant more where you"return to" once you ve done whatever action. For instance if you use 1234 most of your motion would be sideways to the other numbers, or down. Then you come back to hovering above 1234. You d probably use your thumb more as well.
Whereas if you re asdf you move your fingers more up and your wrist is "lower" towards you. You d use your thumb less.

Personally my pinky is mostly for ctrl and shift, not really A or 1 (ring for both) so i m more wasd (wad and ctrl/shift to be more correct) and 1234 feels unnatural as a result, i d probably need to tilt my keyboard a bit.

Horang2 fan
TonDan04
Profile Joined October 2025
51 Posts
April 24 2026 00:31 GMT
#9732
i think if your muscle memory is 100% it doesn't matter where your finger place ment is as long as your fingers correctly presses the key you need to hit at the right time.

But how many here NEVER have to look at their keyboard for a full game? I've never been good at not looking at the keyboard so for me it's frequent and I mess up my hand placement a lot as a result
BioLenT
Profile Joined May 2026
1 Post
Last Edited: 2026-05-04 03:39:03
May 03 2026 23:22 GMT
#9733
Hi guys i was wondering where should i post my Brood War vs computers replays? Thank's in advance!
WGT-Baal
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
France3499 Posts
May 06 2026 14:18 GMT
#9734
On May 04 2026 08:22 BioLenT wrote:
Hi guys i was wondering where should i post my Brood War vs computers replays? Thank's in advance!


To what end? Coaching? Others?
Horang2 fan
Jealous
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
10336 Posts
May 06 2026 16:25 GMT
#9735
On May 04 2026 08:22 BioLenT wrote:
Hi guys i was wondering where should i post my Brood War vs computers replays? Thank's in advance!

https://repmastered.icza.net/
"The right to vote is only the oar of the slaveship, I wanna be free." -- бум бум сучка!
iopq
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States1120 Posts
Last Edited: 2026-05-10 12:22:05
May 10 2026 12:20 GMT
#9736
My start of the game hand position is asdf because I make drone after sending all drones to mine and then I split

but after that I spend a lot of time doing 1234 while boosting (since there are multiple drones to boost, overlord needs to be selected to move larvae) so it can also count as a "default"

On April 24 2026 09:31 TonDan04 wrote:
i think if your muscle memory is 100% it doesn't matter where your finger place ment is as long as your fingers correctly presses the key you need to hit at the right time.

But how many here NEVER have to look at their keyboard for a full game? I've never been good at not looking at the keyboard so for me it's frequent and I mess up my hand placement a lot as a result


I don't think I've ever looked at the keyboard unless I tried to alt qq and alt tabbed instead
hda
Profile Joined May 2026
27 Posts
May 10 2026 23:20 GMT
#9737
Watching progamers play on a 4-player map, they almost always expand vertically. Why is this? That is, if they've cross-spawned on Knock Out or FS, they tend to choose to take their third base on a position vertical to their home base, rather than horizontally.

Say they spawn at 11 o'clock, take their natural, then will go down to expand at 7 o'clock. Similarly, if they spawn at 1 o'clock, their third will be at 5 o'clock. For simplicity, let's assume moreso in ZvT or PvT, as Zerg and Protoss, respectively in these match-ups, will often expand more aggressively across the map, as opposed to the nearby ramp-protected single bases (3, 6, 9, 12 o'clock).

Illustration for reference:
[image loading]


Why do players rarely expand horizontally? If they've spawned at 11 o'clock, why not take the 1 o'clock instead? Is it easier for mouse movement vertically than horizontally? Or something more strategy/tactic related? Is the travel distance shorter, even if on a square 128x128 map?

Noticed this over the years, but didn't understand why. Tried some Google and TL searches, but no hits...

Any input appreciated!
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States44128 Posts
May 11 2026 00:50 GMT
#9738
Those are two completely different examples. FS has rotational symmetry (to a degree) and so horizontal or vertical is simply a matter of orientation. Kickout does not have rotational symmetry, expanding down engages the centre of the map, expanding across does not.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
KyloOwens
Profile Joined May 2026
3 Posts
May 11 2026 14:12 GMT
#9739
--- Nuked ---
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada17649 Posts
Last Edited: 2026-06-17 15:14:28
June 17 2026 15:13 GMT
#9740
Korea is the #1 RTS nation on earth. What country is #2? I say, it is Germany. thoughts?
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
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TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
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