EPTGosuCoaching.com = Scammers / Fraud - Page 4
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MacroNcheesE
United States508 Posts
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MightyAtom
Korea (South)1897 Posts
As with anything in which involves people we know, we will automatically be defensive, it is very hard not to just react, I'm as guilty as anyone else, but I know I do, so I try to tone things down, but I think that Mani was really great for letting this play out, even though it was involving a lot of heated positions that were close to everyone was really good judgement on his part. TL community is very lucky to have Mani as a moderator. | ||
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Xeris
Iran17695 Posts
It's a really unfortunate situation. I apologize to everyone who lost out and became frustrated. I hope that I will be able to find another avenue with which to host tournaments for you guys, because I've had a lot of fun with the weekly tournaments and such. | ||
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Jaw
United States274 Posts
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humblegar
Norway883 Posts
How about you post as quickly on TL when something goes bad and customers are paying for a nonexisting product or emailing a black hole. I understand that you wanted to wait for Louder or whatever. I just don't think that it was a good enough reason. You might be a good coach and a fun person. But your credibility just went down the drain. Note that the fact that gosucoaching didn't work out is no big deal to me, it happens. But this thread is just sad, both for Gosucoaching and TL for not taking it in a less biased way. And manifesto, fair enough about the libel. But Micronesia , you need to take a good look at your posts in this thread. It made me a little less proud of teamliquid. | ||
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
Sorry dude. Thought I was doing right by a guy I have worked with for a long time. I came here and took responsibility and said I would do everything I could to make everyone wronged happy. You really want to latch on to the time frame issue and make it what you just said? Seriously? | ||
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humblegar
Norway883 Posts
On September 01 2010 18:56 {88}iNcontroL wrote: I waited 1 day. Louder said he would make a thread and he didn't. At the end of said day I made a post. Sorry dude. Thought I was doing right by a guy I have worked with for a long time. I came here and took responsibility and said I would do everything I could to make everyone wronged happy. You really want to latch on to the time frame issue and make it what you just said? Seriously? Alright I got exited, I admit it. But you are hardly shy about making posts or threads. For how long exactly has it been a bad idea paying or emailing GC? That is my point. | ||
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
As soon as gosucoaching.com went under I was made aware that Louder was going to announce the news publicly as it is his site/project. Because he took longer than he had said to do that I took it upon myself to do it so that those in the dark would know. I absolutely acted as fast as I could. I have no idea what you are expecting of me. The second I hear someone missed a session I make a public announcement that GC is failing? I was under the impression we were doing fine. That was clearly not the case and the day I became aware of that I made this post. | ||
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Primadog
United States4411 Posts
This kind of crisis are bound to happen if a business is getting anywhere. If you're growing customers will get restless, if you're shrinking suppliers and employees will become unhappy, and if you're doing okay the administration will come knocking. The issue here is how you approach it. Even if you do your best, some things will still slip through the cracks. It is inevitable and unfortunate side of running your own venture, but do you let it ruin this career path all-together? It's unforunate that GosuCoaching went down due to this. Hopefully the coaches do benefit from this experience and continue to try to make it in this Industry. If not E-sports just suffered quite a set-back. Primadog | ||
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igotmyown
United States4291 Posts
Essentially, if this had been closed, it would be a Teamliquid mod covering up for their friends in a 3rd party business, even if that wasn't their intention. It's lucky that (some of) Gosucoaching dealt with this responsibly and openly. And I've seen much more scathing reviews online from many businesses. | ||
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Nokarot
United States1410 Posts
Might need to start paying some customer service people- a small team who can both create a schedule and communicate with the coaches to ensure that everyone is 100% on the same page. Just something to consider for your next project, incontrol, or anyone for that matter. The solution to overwhelming growth in a business is more employees and more product. The product is the coaches, but distributors make sure that product is handled accordingly. You may have had someone fill this role, but it looks like you needed a few more someones. I'd be willing to help, but I'm sure there's a million other more reputable people here than me that would be willing to jump on board. | ||
Rekrul
Korea (South)17174 Posts
Seems kind of foolish to just dump a business like that, especially without informing everyone right away.... Anyways Incontrol this all(coaching) started from you so you may as well make your own site. SC2=$$$$ | ||
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humblegar
Norway883 Posts
On September 01 2010 19:26 {88}iNcontroL wrote: As I have said throughout this thread we have had some issues for awhile. I did not/do not handle the booking so HOW bad it was never reached me. Nevermind I was in Arizona, California, Dubai and North Carolina that month. As soon as gosucoaching.com went under I was made aware that Louder was going to announce the news publicly as it is his site/project. Because he took longer than he had said to do that I took it upon myself to do it so that those in the dark would know. I absolutely acted as fast as I could. I have no idea what you are expecting of me. The second I hear someone missed a session I make a public announcement that GC is failing? I was under the impression we were doing fine. That was clearly not the case and the day I became aware of that I made this post. The bias and attacks directed towards the OP in this thread really did make me think someone was delaying or hiding information on purpose; maybe in a last ditch attempt to save GC or to protect buddies. But thank you for clearing things up. | ||
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Kage
India788 Posts
Micronesia, If you'd pay 100-150 $ and hear from no one for 10 days, wouldn't you be really upset? Especially when you are looking forward to the lessons? | ||
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Inkarnate
Canada840 Posts
On September 01 2010 20:27 Rekrul wrote: I don't understand this whole thing anyways. Couldn't Louder have just suspended all new coaching requests/accepts/payments and had his guys finish off the current people owed coaching and then shut the site down for a bit while he got it all together? Seems kind of foolish to just dump a business like that, especially without informing everyone right away.... Anyways Incontrol this all(coaching) started from you so you may as well make your own site. SC2=$$$$ He's already got the gosuguide, add on live lessons and good to go. | ||
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Pezo
England156 Posts
Incontrol's response to this was very good however and i hope everyone involved is able to sort this out and move onto something else. | ||
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CharlieMurphy
United States22895 Posts
On September 01 2010 19:26 {88}iNcontroL wrote: As I have said throughout this thread we have had some issues for awhile. I did not/do not handle the booking so HOW bad it was never reached me. Nevermind I was in Arizona, California, Dubai and North Carolina that month. As soon as gosucoaching.com went under I was made aware that Louder was going to announce the news publicly as it is his site/project. Because he took longer than he had said to do that I took it upon myself to do it so that those in the dark would know. I absolutely acted as fast as I could. I have no idea what you are expecting of me. The second I hear someone missed a session I make a public announcement that GC is failing? I was under the impression we were doing fine. That was clearly not the case and the day I became aware of that I made this post. Seems plausible that you were scheduled for regular sessions months or weeks in advance and then some whale client tells you he'll pay hundreds or thousands of dollars to fly you out to his place to teach him spur of the moment- take it or leave it. And then there were tournies that may or may not have been expected that further delayed customers. I mean I don't know anything at all but it sounds like you're spreading the blame around to lessen your blame even though you admitted shit went sour and hope to mend it all up. also these problems were known previously http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=146926 | ||
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Louder
United States2276 Posts
On September 01 2010 11:30 {88}iNcontroL wrote: I'm going to respond to this: Gosucoaching has been closed down. I was respectfully waiting for the owner (Louder) to announce it's closure since this was his decision and his website but he has been slow to respond or make this public so I will take the responsibility upon myself. The OP mentions an issue that is quite common with the site in it's current build. The site began as a mere coaching website. An extension of what I was already doing in the blog section of TL with my own coaching endeavor. This was intended to be a larger more professional version of what was evidently a lucrative and beneficial endeavor. However gosucoaching became too overconfident in what it could accomplish and tried to get larger than it should have. With the new layout and design Louder had wished for the website to grow as follows: He wanted individuals to contact the site, request a coach, pay for said coach, have a secretary of sorts fill in the request via a calendar that was previously "ok'd" by each coach and then the coach checked the calendar and attended the scheduled meet. This however was completely ineffectual as we experienced scheduling conflicts, miscommunication like lack of timezone clarification or server of actual session, coaches weren't showing because nobody has the same schedule of availability day-in-and-day-out, sessions were being scheduled the day of .. etc etc.. it is important to note THESE ARE INTERNAL GOSUCOACHING MISTAKES the burden of responsibility and fault lies solely with US. We all knew what we were getting into and we all felt that it could work. So while I name Louder as the leader (he is) we are all responsible. This of course lead to tons and tons of no shows so people started saying "what is the deal?" in droves and eventually the system was flooded with emails of people A. asking for lessons B. asking WHY they weren't getting lessons and C. wanting repercussions/refunds etc As such Louder decided to pack it up and close up shop. This meant that some coaches lost hours and hours of already serviced coaching sessions. This also meant a bunch of angry customers and people who had faith in our service being left with a sour experience. To each and every one of you I am deeply sorry. Gosucoaching is done and I will no longer participate in anything that has to do with it. 100% of my business as a coach relies on integrity and community respect. I have endangered that by allowing myself to participate in a failed and exploitative version of what I sought out to do: coach people and sustain my professional career while I do that. Everyone who sent money and did not get coaching will be refunded. Louder has announced that internally and people have asked for that course of action (obviously). They are entitled to that. In addition I want to apologize for the inconvenience and hope that people will not give up on the coaches involved. Inka, Machine, Sheth, Lzgamer, PsyonicReaver, Future and others are fantastic coaches. They are honest, hard working people who want to do exactly what I did: Coach for the game they love, so they can play the game they love on the highest level. I will be opening a new site. One with a name yet to be determined. It will be the bare bones of what my original plan was: coaching! It will list coaches, have contact info and bios and that's it. Scheduling will be done through the coach directly and any site activity will be merely to advertise show matches, tourneys or free content. Think of it as a organized yellow pages of SC2 coaches. A place you can go to look up someone to help your game without flooding TL, gosugamers or another site with advertisements for coaching. Please PM me if you have any questions or need help. I do not handle the paypal account for gosucoaching but I can represent another voice if anyone is slow to get their refund. Again, sorry for the inconvenience. Hopefully the community will forgive those involved and allow us to reorganize and get back to work. PS: Gosucoaching was never a "scam" site. It merely got too big for it's own good. Scamming was never our intention. We provided a service people paid for and when that relationship fell out of line gosucoaching collapsed. Please don't apply terms that don't match with what we were doing. This is inaccurate, overwhelmingly so. Gosucoaching is doing damage control due to some problems where scheduling got so behind, we simply had to pull the plug (for now) on individual lessons. We are NOT closing up shop. Period. WE ARE NOT CLOSING UP SHOP. Incontrol has been planning to do something separately for a while and seems over-eager to tell the world the site is closing, but that's drama to be had off the forum  Please file a dispute with PayPal and we'll get you settled up. | ||
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Louder
United States2276 Posts
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Inkarnate
Canada840 Posts
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