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Osaka27176 Posts
On September 02 2010 09:33 diggurd wrote:
sigh... TL, dear TL. what happened to you?
but wait a minute, this isnt even a blog? first micro makes a fool out of the OP. then kwark states he will close the thread. finally manifesto moves it to blogs?
TL you used to stand so tall
what does TL have to do with this? GosuCoaching has nothing to do with TL.
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Osaka27176 Posts
On September 02 2010 10:34 Ballistixz wrote:
the way TL members tore a new hole into the OP about his claims (despite him giving proof a few posts after his OP) and then the drama with Gosucoaching from incontrol and louder made me loose faith in this site.
tbh after all this mess i wont do any kind of money dealings from members of TL no matter how reputable they are. it seems these ppl just dont know how to run a business. and im definitely not going to deal with gosu coaching and idk why anyone would after this mess. i was planning on scheduling a lesson sometime in the future with one of the coaches just to try it out and was already skeptical about doing it, but this post and louders post put the nail in the coffin.
GosuCoaching has nothing to do with TL. Get your facts straight please.
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On September 02 2010 08:58 Rekrul wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2010 08:45 jester121 wrote:
"Don't have time to figure out refunds" sounds like a BS excuse to me -- I know if I'd screwed up and cost customers or coaches money, I'd stay awake all night and call off sick from work while I sat and figured it all out, no matter what. Even if it takes pencil and a stack of index cards and a paper ledger. The program is shut down, it's not like you're juggling new incoming business, like a buried business might be, while trying to sort out an accounting mess.
Make it right.
ya and 'file a paypal complaint to get ur $ sorted out' is a big LOOOOOOOOOL
forcing people to file a paypal complaints to get their money back is worse thing you can do to your customer.
read : http://paypalcomplaints.org/
i hope GosuCoaching man up and personally refund everyone money back.
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Seems to me like Louder and the rest of the guys just jumped into something without having any experience or clue what they were doing. If you are going to run a business like that you need reliable customer support, contact information, comprehensive rates, safe payment methods, and at the very least a very basic understanding of accounting.
Honestly, to put it in technical terms you basically just irresponsibly inflated your unearned revenues account without any regard for your clients or employees. You should have had a system in place to prevents double-booking and time-zone conflicts, not to mention a way to actually ensure the money was being rightfully transferred from the customers to the coaches.
I do appreciate your passion for the game and your vision to create this website where coaching from top players is readily available to anyone. but again, as soon as money gets thrown in the picture this turns into a business just like any other small business in America. Sorry to bring it to you but chances are you guys won't recover from this breakdown. Your brand name is pretty much tarnished. Advice? Hire someone that knows how a handle a business when you re-open.
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On September 02 2010 12:12 epik640x wrote:![[image loading]](http://i39.tinypic.com/23m7tjd.jpg)
This was exactly how I felt reading the two threads. Even though it's completely asinine of me. Even though Louder made a HUGE mistake I hope that everyone can get refunded and that everyone learns from this situation. GL HF GG
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On September 02 2010 13:20 jaw wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2010 08:58 Rekrul wrote:On September 02 2010 08:45 jester121 wrote:
"Don't have time to figure out refunds" sounds like a BS excuse to me -- I know if I'd screwed up and cost customers or coaches money, I'd stay awake all night and call off sick from work while I sat and figured it all out, no matter what. Even if it takes pencil and a stack of index cards and a paper ledger. The program is shut down, it's not like you're juggling new incoming business, like a buried business might be, while trying to sort out an accounting mess.
Make it right.
ya and 'file a paypal complaint to get ur $ sorted out' is a big LOOOOOOOOOL forcing people to file a paypal complaints to get their money back is worse thing you can do to your customer. read : http://paypalcomplaints.org/i hope GosuCoaching man up and personally refund everyone money back.
According to Louder he doesn't have the time with his job and traveling due to a death in the family. Maybe you think he's being insincere and has more time on his hands then he says but he feels that this is the fastest way to get people their money back. I'm not sure either way but ya....
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On September 02 2010 19:12 ci_esteban wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2010 13:20 jaw wrote:On September 02 2010 08:58 Rekrul wrote:On September 02 2010 08:45 jester121 wrote:
"Don't have time to figure out refunds" sounds like a BS excuse to me -- I know if I'd screwed up and cost customers or coaches money, I'd stay awake all night and call off sick from work while I sat and figured it all out, no matter what. Even if it takes pencil and a stack of index cards and a paper ledger. The program is shut down, it's not like you're juggling new incoming business, like a buried business might be, while trying to sort out an accounting mess.
Make it right.
ya and 'file a paypal complaint to get ur $ sorted out' is a big LOOOOOOOOOL forcing people to file a paypal complaints to get their money back is worse thing you can do to your customer. read : http://paypalcomplaints.org/i hope GosuCoaching man up and personally refund everyone money back. According to Louder he doesn't have the time with his job and traveling due to a death in the family. Maybe you think he's being insincere and has more time on his hands then he says but he feels that this is the fastest way to get people their money back. I'm not sure either way but ya....
If you have the time to take it you should have the time to give it back. If not, that shows you need to do a better bookkeeping job. That, besides his continued posts, is I think Louder's biggest mistake. Unless he is using some of that held over money for "travel expenses."
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ppl pay 30$ per hour for sc2? WOW!
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The website looked suspicious when I first saw it.
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On September 03 2010 03:41 Zombo Joe wrote:
The website looked suspicious when I first saw it.
People who don't read the thread are annoying.
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On September 03 2010 03:44 monad wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2010 03:41 Zombo Joe wrote:
The website looked suspicious when I first saw it.
People who don't read the thread are annoying.
Too true. Their scouting is lacking.
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On September 02 2010 13:12 Manifesto7 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2010 09:33 diggurd wrote:
sigh... TL, dear TL. what happened to you?
but wait a minute, this isnt even a blog? first micro makes a fool out of the OP. then kwark states he will close the thread. finally manifesto moves it to blogs?
TL you used to stand so tall what does TL have to do with this? GosuCoaching has nothing to do with TL.
you may think its libel and irrelevant and ignore it, i am no judge. i am just a boy blowing a whistle.
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On September 03 2010 05:47 diggurd wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2010 13:12 Manifesto7 wrote:On September 02 2010 09:33 diggurd wrote:
sigh... TL, dear TL. what happened to you?
but wait a minute, this isnt even a blog? first micro makes a fool out of the OP. then kwark states he will close the thread. finally manifesto moves it to blogs?
TL you used to stand so tall what does TL have to do with this? GosuCoaching has nothing to do with TL. you may think its libel and irrelevant and ignore it, i am no judge. i am just a boy blowing a whistle.
You're wrong.
Gosucoaching has nothing to do with team liquid.
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On September 03 2010 05:49 PanN wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2010 05:47 diggurd wrote:On September 02 2010 13:12 Manifesto7 wrote:On September 02 2010 09:33 diggurd wrote:
sigh... TL, dear TL. what happened to you?
but wait a minute, this isnt even a blog? first micro makes a fool out of the OP. then kwark states he will close the thread. finally manifesto moves it to blogs?
TL you used to stand so tall what does TL have to do with this? GosuCoaching has nothing to do with TL. you may think its libel and irrelevant and ignore it, i am no judge. i am just a boy blowing a whistle. You're wrong. Gosucoaching has nothing to do with team liquid.
I think he means in terms of the mods who criticized the OP and attempted to lock/call him out on not having evidence (even though he provided a SS). I don't believe he's making the misconception of TL = GC
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On September 03 2010 05:49 PanN wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2010 05:47 diggurd wrote:On September 02 2010 13:12 Manifesto7 wrote:On September 02 2010 09:33 diggurd wrote:
sigh... TL, dear TL. what happened to you?
but wait a minute, this isnt even a blog? first micro makes a fool out of the OP. then kwark states he will close the thread. finally manifesto moves it to blogs?
TL you used to stand so tall what does TL have to do with this? GosuCoaching has nothing to do with TL. you may think its libel and irrelevant and ignore it, i am no judge. i am just a boy blowing a whistle. You're wrong. Gosucoaching has nothing to do with team liquid. yeah I mean if gosucoaching were run by people that weren't TL regulars (Incontrol is a MOD on here), the mods probably wouldn't have been so harsh to the OP. Kwark closed this thread saying it was a "joke." Then Manifesto did probably the most amazing job of forum moderating I've ever seen by reopening this thread.
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On September 02 2010 13:12 Manifesto7 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2010 10:34 Ballistixz wrote:
the way TL members tore a new hole into the OP about his claims (despite him giving proof a few posts after his OP) and then the drama with Gosucoaching from incontrol and louder made me loose faith in this site.
tbh after all this mess i wont do any kind of money dealings from members of TL no matter how reputable they are. it seems these ppl just dont know how to run a business. and im definitely not going to deal with gosu coaching and idk why anyone would after this mess. i was planning on scheduling a lesson sometime in the future with one of the coaches just to try it out and was already skeptical about doing it, but this post and louders post put the nail in the coffin. GosuCoaching has nothing to do with TL. Get your facts straight please.
no it does not, but that isnt the point. look at the way the mods and other members handled the OP with his complaints about gosucoaching despite the evidence he has shown. granted if he did not show any evidence at all i would understand, but ppl continued to tear into him even after it was proven his complaints were legit. it was automatically shunned and even locked at one point because of what members think about the gosucoaching here on TL. that just is not cool.
you yourself reopned the thread however which was a good move, but its still pretty disheartening. especially for the newer comers to TL who heard of Gosucoaching from the TL site. i can only rly imagine what would have happened if it remained closed. luckily tho the OP did get his refund.
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On September 03 2010 06:44 Ballistixz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2010 13:12 Manifesto7 wrote:On September 02 2010 10:34 Ballistixz wrote:
the way TL members tore a new hole into the OP about his claims (despite him giving proof a few posts after his OP) and then the drama with Gosucoaching from incontrol and louder made me loose faith in this site.
tbh after all this mess i wont do any kind of money dealings from members of TL no matter how reputable they are. it seems these ppl just dont know how to run a business. and im definitely not going to deal with gosu coaching and idk why anyone would after this mess. i was planning on scheduling a lesson sometime in the future with one of the coaches just to try it out and was already skeptical about doing it, but this post and louders post put the nail in the coffin. GosuCoaching has nothing to do with TL. Get your facts straight please. no it does not, but that isnt the point. look at the way the mods and other members handled the OP with his complaints about gosucoaching despite the evidence he has shown. granted if he did not show any evidence at all i would understand, but ppl continued to tear into him even after it was proven his complaints were legit. it was automatically shunned and even locked at one point because of what members think about the gosucoaching here on TL. that just is not cool. you yourself reopned the thread however which was a good move, but its still pretty disheartening. especially for the newer comers to TL who heard of Gosucoaching from the TL site. i can only rly imagine what would have happened if it remained closed. luckily tho the OP did get his refund.
I'm going to defend the mods here. There are allot of Bullshit threads going around therefor the mods have to be strict. Gosucoaching or not, they would had reacted the same and its really the only way for them to keep this forum clean.
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Osaka27176 Posts
On September 03 2010 05:47 diggurd wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2010 13:12 Manifesto7 wrote:On September 02 2010 09:33 diggurd wrote:
sigh... TL, dear TL. what happened to you?
but wait a minute, this isnt even a blog? first micro makes a fool out of the OP. then kwark states he will close the thread. finally manifesto moves it to blogs?
TL you used to stand so tall what does TL have to do with this? GosuCoaching has nothing to do with TL. you may think its libel and irrelevant and ignore it, i am no judge. i am just a boy blowing a whistle.
I do think it is libel because the OP said it was a scam and provided evidence of bad customer service. That was unacceptable. I did not ignore it, I left the thread open for discussion. You aren't blowing a whistle, you are taking cheap shots at the website for no good reason.
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On September 03 2010 08:13 Manifesto7 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2010 05:47 diggurd wrote:On September 02 2010 13:12 Manifesto7 wrote:On September 02 2010 09:33 diggurd wrote:
sigh... TL, dear TL. what happened to you?
but wait a minute, this isnt even a blog? first micro makes a fool out of the OP. then kwark states he will close the thread. finally manifesto moves it to blogs?
TL you used to stand so tall what does TL have to do with this? GosuCoaching has nothing to do with TL. you may think its libel and irrelevant and ignore it, i am no judge. i am just a boy blowing a whistle. I do think it is libel because the OP said it was a scam and provided evidence of bad customer service. That was unacceptable. I did not ignore it, I left the thread open for discussion. You aren't blowing a whistle, you are taking cheap shots at the website for no good reason.
+1
title would have been better written as "something's wrong wih gosucoaching"
But hindsight is 20-20
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@pann
what do you mean i am wrong? what actual statement is wrong? and what do you mean when you say gosucoaching has nothing to do with team liquid? when one of their top coaches and their supposed #2, is a TL moderator, that is clearly some form of contact between the two organs? i may be wrong because i look at "has nothing to do with" different than you...
but that was never my point anyways, as some other posters have mentioned.
@integra:
what do you mean when you say keep the forums clean? of bullshit yes, i agree. but was this OP bullshit? it was maybe written in a non-teamliquidian fashion (claiming a scam, when some would say it was in fact a "bad costumer service"). but in drama like this, with ss like that, it should not weigh much.
when you say keep the forums clean, and i look at this thread it feels too much like IRL and less like TL...
@manifesto:
i am sorry to hear that you feel this way, i love tl. its the best community in the world. i think its because of two things: the depth bw, and you, the moderators. i've been here for years, but lately the ambiance hasnt met my expectations. maybe its because there is too much "dirt" here... too many people? i dont know. but what i do know is that i've seen too many decompositions because of arrogance and elitism.
so you dont think i am a legit whistle blower, that i am not sorry for. i never said you ignored the OP, i was talking about you finding my post libel, which clearly you did. the cheap shot was not directed at TL as a website, but its moderators
what do you mean when you say "cheap shot" and "no good reason"? how can you state that i took a cheap shot for no good reason, when you found a reason to a re-open. maybe this was for no good reason, we may never find out. but what if there is more reasons than this?
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EPT
