GosuCoaching.com = Scammers / Fraud

I found out a little while ago that our email was vanishing into a black hole, and we are MISSING all lesson requests since August 5th. I want to extend my apology to everyone for the confusion. If you think we ignored you, we didn't! So drop us a line again and we won't miss you this time.

On September 01 2010 11:06 Trion wrote:


This was on the front page of their web page and was posted by someone by the name of "Louder"

Disclaimer: I know very little about GosuCoaching.com and I just posted the first thing I saw on their web page.

On September 01 2010 11:13 SilentCrono wrote:
well, i hope you get the refund if you don't get the lesson. maybe you can try again with them later. i heard they are a really good coaching website and i will definitely be getting some lessons once i get my paycheck.

I just wanted to let the community know that GosuCoaching.com is a big scam site, my friend bought a lessons from them, they requested payment right away, than said it would be months before the lessons, and now are completely ignoring his emails. He's had to open a paypal dispute to attempt to get his money back, I would avoid using this site at all costs

and this is AFTER, he stop responding to me for 5 days in a row the first time

On September 01 2010 11:13 KwarK wrote:
Ok. This is clearly ridiculous and the people at gosucoaching are decent guys. I'm closing this. If you want to make a new topic to complain with some proof and dates that add up after having spoken with them then I'll let that one stand. But this is just a joke.

On September 01 2010 11:56 TadH wrote:
Looks like the OP's rage was founded after all.

On September 01 2010 11:59 micronesia wrote:

Rage? Perhaps. But this thread wasn't a good way to deal with it. Maybe he just had no idea of alternate ways to get in touch with them?

On September 01 2010 11:59 micronesia wrote:

Rage? Perhaps. But this thread wasn't a good way to deal with it. Maybe he just had no idea of alternate ways to get in touch with them?

On September 01 2010 12:06 T.O.P. wrote:

It was a good method. Gosucoaching wasn't responding to their client. They weren't going to confess their faults unless someone wrote a bad review on TL. Without this post, some people will continue to sign up for gosucoaching and not get the service that they deserve in return.

On September 01 2010 12:10 lac29 wrote:
Yeah, even though there was a lot of rage by the OP, this thread was needed.

I always thought if ppl want to coach SC2, they should just do it individually instead of have this collective website thing. Just don't make the mistake of overbooking. Each coach fends for himself, schedules for himself, advertises for himself, etc.

On September 01 2010 12:15 dronebabo wrote:

why would he need to have alternate ways to get in touch with them? they should be responding by their listed email and this is obviously a good way to get their attention if they don't respond

On September 01 2010 12:16 cowman wrote:


I think it's fine for several coaches to represent a website. As long as the coaches themselves are contacting the student, there shouldn't be any issues with conflicting schedules, time zones, etc.

Best of luck with the new website, iNcontroL.

On September 01 2010 13:21 bontez wrote:
imo Incontrol couldn't have given a better response. He addressed the issue in a very good manner, and actually took responsibility even though he's probably not to blame. Best of luck to your future coaching plans incontrol.

On September 01 2010 13:36 Ack1027 wrote:
Incontrol gave a great response. Someone with a level head like yourself will be able to salvage this idea and make it work for sure.

However, hindsight is 20/20...Why the fuck are people still blaming the OP. Making a thread was PERFECTLY FINE after TEN fucking days. It's logical to believe they wouldn't respond to PMs if they didn't respond to emails.

I mean the people who are saying the OP shouldn't have made a thread like this...Does your logic somehow go: Email isn't responding---> OH SHIT ITS AN EMAIL ERROR -----> PMing the should do the trick! ------> Even though they have the ability to get online and check TL PMs they probably said hey fuck it who cares about my business that I have a responsibility for, clearly anyone who has problems will message me through TL PMS!!!!

LOL

On September 01 2010 18:56 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
I waited 1 day. Louder said he would make a thread and he didn't. At the end of said day I made a post.

Sorry dude. Thought I was doing right by a guy I have worked with for a long time. I came here and took responsibility and said I would do everything I could to make everyone wronged happy. You really want to latch on to the time frame issue and make it what you just said?

Seriously?

On September 01 2010 19:26 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
As I have said throughout this thread we have had some issues for awhile. I did not/do not handle the booking so HOW bad it was never reached me. Nevermind I was in Arizona, California, Dubai and North Carolina that month.

As soon as gosucoaching.com went under I was made aware that Louder was going to announce the news publicly as it is his site/project. Because he took longer than he had said to do that I took it upon myself to do it so that those in the dark would know.

I absolutely acted as fast as I could. I have no idea what you are expecting of me. The second I hear someone missed a session I make a public announcement that GC is failing? I was under the impression we were doing fine. That was clearly not the case and the day I became aware of that I made this post.

On September 01 2010 20:27 Rekrul wrote:
I don't understand this whole thing anyways. Couldn't Louder have just suspended all new coaching requests/accepts/payments and had his guys finish off the current people owed coaching and then shut the site down for a bit while he got it all together?

Seems kind of foolish to just dump a business like that, especially without informing everyone right away....

Anyways Incontrol this all(coaching) started from you so you may as well make your own site. SC2=$$$$

On September 01 2010 19:26 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
As I have said throughout this thread we have had some issues for awhile. I did not/do not handle the booking so HOW bad it was never reached me. Nevermind I was in Arizona, California, Dubai and North Carolina that month.

As soon as gosucoaching.com went under I was made aware that Louder was going to announce the news publicly as it is his site/project. Because he took longer than he had said to do that I took it upon myself to do it so that those in the dark would know.

I absolutely acted as fast as I could. I have no idea what you are expecting of me. The second I hear someone missed a session I make a public announcement that GC is failing? I was under the impression we were doing fine. That was clearly not the case and the day I became aware of that I made this post.

On September 01 2010 11:30 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
I'm going to respond to this:

Gosucoaching has been closed down.

I was respectfully waiting for the owner (Louder) to announce it's closure since this was his decision and his website but he has been slow to respond or make this public so I will take the responsibility upon myself.

The OP mentions an issue that is quite common with the site in it's current build. The site began as a mere coaching website. An extension of what I was already doing in the blog section of TL with my own coaching endeavor. This was intended to be a larger more professional version of what was evidently a lucrative and beneficial endeavor.

However gosucoaching became too overconfident in what it could accomplish and tried to get larger than it should have.

With the new layout and design Louder had wished for the website to grow as follows: He wanted individuals to contact the site, request a coach, pay for said coach, have a secretary of sorts fill in the request via a calendar that was previously "ok'd" by each coach and then the coach checked the calendar and attended the scheduled meet. This however was completely ineffectual as we experienced scheduling conflicts, miscommunication like lack of timezone clarification or server of actual session, coaches weren't showing because nobody has the same schedule of availability day-in-and-day-out, sessions were being scheduled the day of .. etc etc.. it is important to note THESE ARE INTERNAL GOSUCOACHING MISTAKES the burden of responsibility and fault lies solely with US. We all knew what we were getting into and we all felt that it could work. So while I name Louder as the leader (he is) we are all responsible.

This of course lead to tons and tons of no shows so people started saying "what is the deal?" in droves and eventually the system was flooded with emails of people A. asking for lessons B. asking WHY they weren't getting lessons and C. wanting repercussions/refunds etc

As such Louder decided to pack it up and close up shop. This meant that some coaches lost hours and hours of already serviced coaching sessions. This also meant a bunch of angry customers and people who had faith in our service being left with a sour experience. To each and every one of you I am deeply sorry.

Gosucoaching is done and I will no longer participate in anything that has to do with it. 100% of my business as a coach relies on integrity and community respect. I have endangered that by allowing myself to participate in a failed and exploitative version of what I sought out to do: coach people and sustain my professional career while I do that.

Everyone who sent money and did not get coaching will be refunded. Louder has announced that internally and people have asked for that course of action (obviously). They are entitled to that. In addition I want to apologize for the inconvenience and hope that people will not give up on the coaches involved. Inka, Machine, Sheth, Lzgamer, PsyonicReaver, Future and others are fantastic coaches. They are honest, hard working people who want to do exactly what I did: Coach for the game they love, so they can play the game they love on the highest level.

I will be opening a new site. One with a name yet to be determined. It will be the bare bones of what my original plan was: coaching! It will list coaches, have contact info and bios and that's it. Scheduling will be done through the coach directly and any site activity will be merely to advertise show matches, tourneys or free content. Think of it as a organized yellow pages of SC2 coaches. A place you can go to look up someone to help your game without flooding TL, gosugamers or another site with advertisements for coaching.

Please PM me if you have any questions or need help. I do not handle the paypal account for gosucoaching but I can represent another voice if anyone is slow to get their refund.

Again, sorry for the inconvenience. Hopefully the community will forgive those involved and allow us to reorganize and get back to work.

PS: Gosucoaching was never a "scam" site. It merely got too big for it's own good. Scamming was never our intention. We provided a service people paid for and when that relationship fell out of line gosucoaching collapsed. Please don't apply terms that don't match with what we were doing.

On September 02 2010 00:47 Fumi wrote:
Kinda hard to believe that Inc of all people would just come here and make a huge post lying about all this, and totally not expecting Louder to read it. Gonna need some more information on the matter. Either way, coaching players was always a great idea, and before I decided to stop SC2 I was actually thinking of trying it out. So I hope everything turns out well, be it gosucoaching continuing on or Inc's new project kicking in.

On September 01 2010 11:01 xyos wrote:
Hey,

I just wanted to let the community know that GosuCoaching.com is a big scam site, my friend bought a lessons from them, they requested payment right away, than said it would be months before the lessons, and now are completely ignoring his emails. He's had to open a paypal dispute to attempt to get his money back, I would avoid using this site at all costs


here is my email convo -http://yfrog.com/g0gosuscamj

10 days no respnose, AFTER they won't respond for 5 days after first payment, they set dates, than didin't respond again, and won't respond to emails.

On September 01 2010 21:24 Kage wrote:
Incontrol delivers again. He's been an excellent coach and overall person in general. I'm sure we can work this out in a much more systematic way.

Micronesia, If you'd pay 100-150 $ and hear from no one for 10 days, wouldn't you be really upset? Especially when you are looking forward to the lessons?

On September 02 2010 00:06 Louder wrote:
Also, since this was aired publicly, even though I addressed it in my main post, do not believe that coaches are getting shafted. They are not. There's a narrow window of time for which I can't pay them for lessons, which means a couple of them will lose out on a little money, but it can't be helped - and this whole thing will end up personally costing me hundreds, which I can certainly live with

On September 02 2010 03:30 JIJIyO wrote:
I don't want to cause any tension among EG, but I wanted to ask what you meant by "exploitative version" of what you wanted to do, Inc. If you don't choose to answer, that's understandable.

I personally wouldn't pay money to get coached in Starcraft, but whatever makes you money and is legal is all good to me. Everyone needs money, so why not do it by doing something you love.

Good luck in future endeavours EG and Gosucoaching.

On September 02 2010 07:01 lac29 wrote:
Yeah best to just stay quiet and just do your own thing Inc (this goes out to the other coaches as well ... do your own thing ... you'll pocket more money and are a lot more flexible with your own scheduling and your own payments). This 15% fee for scheduling/handling payments is just wasteful overhead and less money going to the coaches themselves. And that also causes customers to have to foot a larger bill.

On September 02 2010 06:49 {88}iNcontroL wrote:


What do you call it when a coach does coaching, (Machine did 700+ $ worth) and doesn't get paid? I understand you told him he may get some of that back. That is the definition of being "shafted."

Also that unpaid time wasn't a small window.. it was 3 weeks.

Additionally, all this stuff with the site was never discussed with me, your supposed #2. The email, never got to me, I called/texted you NOTHING. So don't start with a conspiracy theory that I had this planned or something. I am a professional coach and I am looking at the head of the website issuing a giant blanket refund to the would be students and then announcing that individual coaching is canceled on a website FOR INDIVIDUAL COACHING. You tell me what I was supposed to believe?

On September 02 2010 07:11 lac29 wrote:
I think the lost money is probably more of lost potential money from customers who wanted lessons but were not given them.

What do you call it when a coach does coaching, (Machine did 700+ $ worth) and doesn't get paid? I understand you told him he may get some of that back. That is the definition of being "shafted."

On September 02 2010 07:14 monad wrote:


But he specifically said that during a small window, some of the coaches did not get paid for lessons they conducted. Incontrol also said Machine lost out on like $700 worth of lessons.


If he meant that because of the $18 / $12 split, machine lost $12 / lesson for approximately 58 lessons (totalling $700 in potential income that went to the house) then that's a different story, but it almost sounds to me like machine got paid nothing for some lessons. Which doesn't make sense.

On September 02 2010 07:18 AgentMulder wrote:


Could very well have been the result of poor bookkeeping. A few bucks here, another few there. It adds up. I'm not going to say Louder is the SC2 equivalent of Madoff, but either someone seriously screwed the pooch here or certain individuals were siphoning funds

On September 02 2010 07:28 dani_caliKorea wrote:

There are paid starcraft tutoring sites?..

On September 02 2010 07:28 monad wrote:
That's an interesting theory, but Louder specifically said that he "doesn't have the time" to manually issue refunds, but that he could in theory do that. That's fine to determine that YOUR time is worth a certain amount and take a personal financial hit because of that, but it's not fine to determine that for other people.

i.e. assuming that is the reason, then he has the obligation to pay all coaches in full for services rendered, and he can take full loss on the chargebacks from Paypal. Nobody else did anything wrong, and they should be paid in full. if it's just a few dollars maybe the coaches don't care enough to press it. But $700 is quite a chunk of change, and could stand up in small claims court.

Of course we're still speculating on why there's "lost money" (if there is at all).

On September 02 2010 07:28 monad wrote:
That's an interesting theory, but Louder specifically said that he "doesn't have the time" to manually issue refunds, but that he could in theory do that. That's fine to determine that YOUR time is worth a certain amount and take a personal financial hit because of that, but it's not fine to determine that for other people.

i.e. assuming that is the reason, then he has the obligation to pay all coaches in full for services rendered, and he can take full loss on the chargebacks from Paypal. Nobody else did anything wrong, and they should be paid in full. if it's just a few dollars maybe the coaches don't care enough to press it. But $700 is quite a chunk of change, and could stand up in small claims court.

Of course we're still speculating on why there's "lost money" (if there is at all).

On September 02 2010 07:40 monad wrote:
Again I'm not trying to make accusations, just posing the questions. Maybe nobody owes us any answers anyway, but in fairness to the coaches, someone should be asking these questions. I really don't want to feel like the money I paid went to some sort of paypal chargeback ass-covering fund instead of the coach.

On September 02 2010 08:21 Rekrul wrote:
so it was scamming after all??? except towards employees not clients?

so i guess this means louder is off team eg?

i'm so confused

On September 02 2010 08:45 jester121 wrote:
"Don't have time to figure out refunds" sounds like a BS excuse to me -- I know if I'd screwed up and cost customers or coaches money, I'd stay awake all night and call off sick from work while I sat and figured it all out, no matter what. Even if it takes pencil and a stack of index cards and a paper ledger. The program is shut down, it's not like you're juggling new incoming business, like a buried business might be, while trying to sort out an accounting mess.

Make it right.

On September 02 2010 10:34 Ballistixz wrote:
the way TL members tore a new hole into the OP about his claims (despite him giving proof a few posts after his OP) and then the drama with Gosucoaching from incontrol and louder made me loose faith in this site.

tbh after all this mess i wont do any kind of money dealings from members of TL no matter how reputable they are. it seems these ppl just dont know how to run a business. and im definitely not going to deal with gosu coaching and idk why anyone would after this mess. i was planning on scheduling a lesson sometime in the future with one of the coaches just to try it out and was already skeptical about doing it, but this post and louders post put the nail in the coffin.

On September 02 2010 09:33 diggurd wrote:
sigh... TL, dear TL. what happened to you?

but wait a minute, this isnt even a blog? first micro makes a fool out of the OP. then kwark states he will close the thread. finally manifesto moves it to blogs?

TL you used to stand so tall

On September 02 2010 10:34 Ballistixz wrote:
the way TL members tore a new hole into the OP about his claims (despite him giving proof a few posts after his OP) and then the drama with Gosucoaching from incontrol and louder made me loose faith in this site.

tbh after all this mess i wont do any kind of money dealings from members of TL no matter how reputable they are. it seems these ppl just dont know how to run a business. and im definitely not going to deal with gosu coaching and idk why anyone would after this mess. i was planning on scheduling a lesson sometime in the future with one of the coaches just to try it out and was already skeptical about doing it, but this post and louders post put the nail in the coffin.

On September 02 2010 08:58 Rekrul wrote:


ya and 'file a paypal complaint to get ur $ sorted out' is a big LOOOOOOOOOL

On September 02 2010 13:20 jaw wrote:


forcing people to file a paypal complaints to get their money back is worse thing you can do to your customer.
read : http://paypalcomplaints.org/
i hope GosuCoaching man up and personally refund everyone money back.

On September 02 2010 19:12 ci_esteban wrote:


According to Louder he doesn't have the time with his job and traveling due to a death in the family. Maybe you think he's being insincere and has more time on his hands then he says but he feels that this is the fastest way to get people their money back. I'm not sure either way but ya....

On September 03 2010 03:41 Zombo Joe wrote:
The website looked suspicious when I first saw it.

On September 03 2010 03:44 monad wrote:

People who don't read the thread are annoying.

On September 02 2010 13:12 Manifesto7 wrote:


what does TL have to do with this? GosuCoaching has nothing to do with TL.

On September 03 2010 05:47 diggurd wrote:


you may think its libel and irrelevant and ignore it, i am no judge. i am just a boy blowing a whistle.

On September 03 2010 05:49 PanN wrote:

You're wrong.

Gosucoaching has nothing to do with team liquid.

On September 02 2010 13:12 Manifesto7 wrote:


GosuCoaching has nothing to do with TL. Get your facts straight please.

On September 03 2010 06:44 Ballistixz wrote:



no it does not, but that isnt the point. look at the way the mods and other members handled the OP with his complaints about gosucoaching despite the evidence he has shown. granted if he did not show any evidence at all i would understand, but ppl continued to tear into him even after it was proven his complaints were legit. it was automatically shunned and even locked at one point because of what members think about the gosucoaching here on TL. that just is not cool.

you yourself reopned the thread however which was a good move, but its still pretty disheartening. especially for the newer comers to TL who heard of Gosucoaching from the TL site. i can only rly imagine what would have happened if it remained closed. luckily tho the OP did get his refund.

On September 03 2010 05:47 diggurd wrote:


you may think its libel and irrelevant and ignore it, i am no judge. i am just a boy blowing a whistle.

On September 03 2010 08:13 Manifesto7 wrote:


I do think it is libel because the OP said it was a scam and provided evidence of bad customer service. That was unacceptable. I did not ignore it, I left the thread open for discussion. You aren't blowing a whistle, you are taking cheap shots at the website for no good reason.

On September 03 2010 09:32 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
I am always a little sad when someone so quickly writes TL off over an incident..

but then I am reminded:

A. They aren't actually going to leave the community
B. People with that attitude rarely make a difference anyways.

I am sorry you feel like an abrasive OP that brings on a close from a new moderator and is later reopened by an experienced admin is somehow justification for the degradation of this entire forum. That said I think you might want to reduce your hair trigger assumption tendency and give TL a chance. It's been around for nearly a decade.. I think it will survive the gosucoaching drama.

On September 03 2010 06:44 Ballistixz wrote:



no it does not, but that isnt the point. look at the way the mods and other members handled the OP with his complaints about gosucoaching despite the evidence he has shown.

On September 01 2010 11:01 xyos wrote:
Hey,

I just wanted to let the community know that GosuCoaching.com is a big scam site, my friend bought a lessons from them, they requested payment right away, than said it would be months before the lessons, and now are completely ignoring his emails. He's had to open a paypal dispute to attempt to get his money back, I would avoid using this site at all costs.