Streaming Savior - Page 8

On November 16 2011 03:40 Rostam wrote:


Yes, everyone is bigoted against match fixers. Woe to all match fixers, for they are a repressed group.

Hopefully he's banned for life from TL as well as GomTV and KeSPA.

On November 16 2011 04:50 GMarshal wrote:

I'll just post what I sent to the last person who asked me about savior, since you don't seem to have the background on it:

To truly understand what savior did, you first need to have a history of savior. I don't know how much or how little you know about the history of the situation, and what he did, so I'll give you a rundown. Also I suck at dates, so this is going to be entirely without them.

Now, savior came into the scene at a time in which zerg was being destroyed, terrans and protoss were winning everything, and it looked like there was nothing zerg could do, all the "good" zerg players were ranting, asking for better maps, etc. The situation wasn't just grim, it was despair, no innovation or strategy was working for zerg players. Cue the entrance of Savior, the zerg hero. Savior was not just good, he was fucking indistructible, he was boxer, oov and nada all rolled into one but for zerg. He single handedly took the zerg race from a flubbly laughingstock to a weapon of destruction. A machine that could not be stopped. I can't do Savior's play justice, read Ver's words on it. Savior was a god. Savior was a player that rivaled and perhaps overcame the legends of boxer and nada.

Then, it spilled, rekrul's blog was the first hint that something was amiss. You can read that blog to get an idea of the amount of denial that people were in. Then the news broke. Savior, the hero of the zerg, the savior of the people, the man who was living legend, had just cheated everyone who had beat him out of a legitimate win. He had subverted the entire foundation of esports. I rarely say that someone has hurt esports and mean it, but savior did hurt esports. In fact he is the guy who most hurt esports in its history. This disappointed thousands of starcraft watchers, here on tl and in korea, we didn't know if any results of anything were valid anymore, were all the matches we've seen a sham? If Savior a bonjwa was involved in this, how far could the corruption possibly spread? Was it worth continuing to watch a game where the results were probably rigged?

This man, who was one of the most loved and respected players in all of starcraft had betrayed us. He had single-handedly destroyed any and all faith we could have in the integrity of the game. This was not some B league scrub who was desperate for money, this was a man who was winning OSLs, and he disonhoured himself, his game, and his fans. Sure he was in a slump, but that is irrelevant, he was the Maestro. For many of us it was a question of if starcraft was even worth watching anymore. This was a betrayal on a magnitude never seen before. Because of this he is premabaned by kespa, for this reason there are many, many of us who will never forgive his betrayal. Not because what he did was wrong, but because he had no possible justification for doing it. None. He conspired to destroy the integrity of the game we love

This is also the reason that there will always be a schism between those who maintain that once you have betrayed all your fans you can never go back, and those who look at his brilliant play and say "but he is a genius! doesn't he deserve a second chance?" To be clear, what savior did was not just cheating, where perhaps a second chance might be offered, he legitimately betrayed his fans, his haters and the entire world of bw.

That is also why you will never ever see a civil savior thread.

You simply cannot compare the betrayal that savior perpetuated on us against the win trading and such of people like dimaga. Its like comparing stealing candy with murder.

On November 16 2011 06:12 Clbull wrote:

Some former BW cheaters/maphackers/abusers were welcomed back to TL with open arms because they made an attempt at reforming their old ways.

I understand there is such a thing as making an example, but what about if they try to reform their ways?

Of course sAviOr has no chance of redeeming himself anymore. He's blacklisted for life and everybody holds a hateful grudge against him like some 12 year old. Several lapses in judgement basically cost him his entire career.

Match fixing is unprofessional, and it is illegal.

However, Teamliquid is a Starcraft community and outright banning any discussion or links to sAviOr's stream is a bit harsh for a mere community to do. Besides, TL is not a huge player in the esports scene apart from if you include the separate team and league. Plus, there's no chance in fucking hell TL would ever let sAviOr play in the TSL4 if he were ever to switch to SC2, let alone give him a spot on Team Liquid.

On November 16 2011 06:23 Rostam wrote:


Match fixers can't redeem themselves because of the nature of what they do. A maphacker can prove he's playing legit. You can never prove that you're not match fixing, unless you simply never lose. When you've done it once the question will always be there.



Yes, it's harsh. It should be harsh.

On November 16 2011 06:31 rasers wrote:

and if you win some games legit it means you wont maphack anymore? TT1 can still go back and maphack the shit out of this game. online ofcourse.

On November 16 2011 04:50 GMarshal wrote:

I'll just post what I sent to the last person who asked me about savior, since you don't seem to have the background on it:

To truly understand what savior did, you first need to have a history of savior. I don't know how much or how little you know about the history of the situation, and what he did, so I'll give you a rundown. Also I suck at dates, so this is going to be entirely without them.

Now, savior came into the scene at a time in which zerg was being destroyed, terrans and protoss were winning everything, and it looked like there was nothing zerg could do, all the "good" zerg players were ranting, asking for better maps, etc. The situation wasn't just grim, it was despair, no innovation or strategy was working for zerg players. Cue the entrance of Savior, the zerg hero. Savior was not just good, he was fucking indistructible, he was boxer, oov and nada all rolled into one but for zerg. He single handedly took the zerg race from a flubbly laughingstock to a weapon of destruction. A machine that could not be stopped. I can't do Savior's play justice, read Ver's words on it. Savior was a god. Savior was a player that rivaled and perhaps overcame the legends of boxer and nada.

Then, it spilled, rekrul's blog was the first hint that something was amiss. You can read that blog to get an idea of the amount of denial that people were in. Then the news broke. Savior, the hero of the zerg, the savior of the people, the man who was living legend, had just cheated everyone who had beat him out of a legitimate win. He had subverted the entire foundation of esports. I rarely say that someone has hurt esports and mean it, but savior did hurt esports. In fact he is the guy who most hurt esports in its history. This disappointed thousands of starcraft watchers, here on tl and in korea, we didn't know if any results of anything were valid anymore, were all the matches we've seen a sham? If Savior a bonjwa was involved in this, how far could the corruption possibly spread? Was it worth continuing to watch a game where the results were probably rigged?

This man, who was one of the most loved and respected players in all of starcraft had betrayed us. He had single-handedly destroyed any and all faith we could have in the integrity of the game. This was not some B league scrub who was desperate for money, this was a man who was winning OSLs, and he disonhoured himself, his game, and his fans. Sure he was in a slump, but that is irrelevant, he was the Maestro. For many of us it was a question of if starcraft was even worth watching anymore. This was a betrayal on a magnitude never seen before. Because of this he is premabaned by kespa, for this reason there are many, many of us who will never forgive his betrayal. Not because what he did was wrong, but because he had no possible justification for doing it. None. He conspired to destroy the integrity of the game we love

This is also the reason that there will always be a schism between those who maintain that once you have betrayed all your fans you can never go back, and those who look at his brilliant play and say "but he is a genius! doesn't he deserve a second chance?" To be clear, what savior did was not just cheating, where perhaps a second chance might be offered, he legitimately betrayed his fans, his haters and the entire world of bw.

That is also why you will never ever see a civil savior thread.

You simply cannot compare the betrayal that savior perpetuated on us against the win trading and such of people like dimaga. Its like comparing stealing candy with murder.

On November 16 2011 06:36 Hot_Bid wrote:
First, what Savior did was magnitudes greater than maphacking or abusing in a tournament. He almost served jail time and what he did was virtually criminal. I see it on the same level of literally stealing money from tournaments or running a scam.

Second, just because we celebrate what he accomplished before his match fixing does not mean we should allow him to do whatever now.

I think it's ridiculous you guys are comparing the situation to a few maphackers and abusers. We banned TT1 for 1.5 years for maphacking. If we were to impose a similar punishment on Savior it'd be a ban for 5+ years given the magnitude of the offense. Does anyone disagree with this?

I'm fine with him streaming in 2016.

On November 16 2011 06:58 corumjhaelen wrote:

You know what ? sAvIOr doesn't care if he's restreamed on TL, he probably does not even know anyone watches him here, and he does not get anything from it. He does not even get publicity, because the only thing you see on TL is the restreamer name.
The only people who are punished by your "ban" are the people who want to watch him play.
The people who could punish him did, and sAviOr punishment was sure harder than TT1.
That being said, I sympathize, and I sure hope he won't be allowed to participate in any tournament. But that has nothing to do with this thread.

On November 16 2011 07:25 Kerotan wrote:

Its not just about punishing savior (he could find out that he gets restreamed, Hiya knows eg.), its more about TL being associated with a person who bought BW to its knees.

On November 16 2011 06:55 ArvickHero wrote:
Ridiculous. He doesn't benefit from foreigners watching his stream, and in a sense he's atoning for his crimes by giving upcoming BW players a great resource to learn from. Are we going to make linking Savior's VODs a bannable offense too?

On November 16 2011 07:59 P0ckets wrote:
Where will Cocoa and Byun stand? It seems pretty obviously that they were fixing games just as Savior had. Will they be punished similarly for partaking in the same act?