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On December 11 2011 02:42 EternaLEnVy wrote:
Sadly, I don't even have a DotA 2 key, and even if I did I'm debating whether I should even play it for a while, the game is too betaish and it's definitely not the best way to get better. I'm sure I'll play some games with people like Tarano are on but other than that it might be a waste of time in terms of practice.
I wonder if people would even watch DotA streams (not dota 2)
I would watch a DotA stream! hell DotA is one of my favorite games of all time, stream that shit you'd have at least 1 viewer!
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hey i know a guy in 2nd grade at engsci on university of toronto, and he also claims that it's hell ^^
gl with dota!
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4th got 80k
5th got 65
name any other esport where getting 7th in a tourney of 16 wins u 25k. 5k for each person.
i dont know what you are correlating exactly. you are first saying that the reason winning all those dota tourneys felt like shit was cause you got barely any money. Is this dota's fault? Its shady sponsors/shady tournaments and shady people.
your basically telling him to play a game where the competition is literally impossible to make any money. Success in sc2 can be correlated to beating a top korean or top player in the MLG open bracket. you think all these players that arent at the top aim to only win MLG?
The odds against them are ridiculous. you have players like Forbs (my na dota friend who recently beat drewbie and spades in the mlg open bracket)
I think thats success. He beat two professional players who have even went to korea to train. did he win any money off it no?he actually had to pay to get there in terms of travel/entrance fee.
so basically you are first saying you wanted something in return besides having won the glory of tournaments. then you say switch to sc2 but you realize that winning money in sc2 is ridiculously hard. you can say grandmaster this grandmaster that. desrow has improved a lot in sc2. but will he win any ridiculous amount of money off tournaments? he will be the first to say most of his money is off streaming/coaching which is nothing related to competition.
i just dont understand your point.
you tell him to switch to sc2. you say that dota has never paid off anything. but you do realize if you want money, first off Esports shouldnt be your priority. I dont care about how much money i win in this game. im playing it for fun and for the competition. i just think its a lot more realistic for me to be better at dota than it is in Sc2.most sc2 pros besides the top names barely make any salary nor do they have a sufficient stream of income from sc2. and most of their income is off sponsorships and salary in the first place. not tournament wins.
and no need to go for some insults "blah youve never won a lan, you dont know anything about lans" that has nothing to do with the argument at hand
like what is your goal?
you want to win? or is being grandmasters your idea of glory in sc2 and thriving in competition. my friend in college is in grandmasters NA and in top masters in th ekorean server. he plays all day/skips classes and is addicted more than anything. but even he realizes that making it big in sc2 is ridiculously low.
ya babyknight is a good sc2 player but what has he done exactly? How much has he won. i doubt navi is paying him a 1k a month salary let alone a 200 dollar/month salary. he hasnt marketed himself at all and anyone outside of dota would barely know him in the sc2 scene.
dota was a mod, a custom game. it had an engine that didnt even support it openly or commercially. you are basing the validity of that compared to a new engine of a company that has probably been the most successful in terms of games (up there with blizzard) and has promised to provide millions of dollars of prize money each year for a tournament in one of the biggest gaming conventions of the year.
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No offense man, but you're kind of an attention who*e atm.
If you want to become a progamer then do it! It's your own life.
If some random people on TL thinks it's a stupid idea? so what? Most of them probably doesn't risk their normal lives to take a chance and live out their dream.
Even if you really wanted to become a progamer, others saying you can't wouldn't change that - just saying.
I played with you in HoN btw - or against you 
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Just to point something out:
I think you should talk to some potential teammates and make sure you get people who are in the same place / level of commitment as you are, since DotA is a team game unlike SC2. I'd imagine it would be a major let down if you were the only one in a team taking it seriously enough to take it full time while forced to practice solo most of the time because your teammates have school / other commitments.
That said, good luck. Hope you do well.
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and if you bring up the lan thing,
two of my friends and teammates, 1437 and Universe both went to the international. they placed 7th and got 25k in cash. Each got 4k and the sponsor did not take anything. the taxes were minimum. after them they got around 3.3k
they received the money within 2 weeks of coming back from the event. demon made even more. around 14k. management did not take anything(different circumstances) and taxes were only around 1k which is so small compared to the prize. might be different in denmark or w/e
so dont understand what you are trying to get by that statement.
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This thread can be closed now, if people have read my new update, the need to answer these concerns can be delayed.
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On December 11 2011 09:33 S_SienZ wrote:
Just to point something out:
I think you should talk to some potential teammates and make sure you get people who are in the same place / level of commitment as you are, since DotA is a team game unlike SC2. I'd imagine it would be a major let down if you were the only one in a team taking it seriously enough to take it full time while forced to practice solo most of the time because your teammates have school / other commitments.
That said, good luck. Hope you do well.
That's y I don't really want to settle on a team till I'm actually extremely good. If anyone team where to be able to accept me as I am now, they probably aren't what I'm looking for in the long run.
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Bulba dont make me laugh here.
i know this is the TL forums and i should stay classy here, but i rly would like to harm u physically for all the lies u spread here with your comments.
First of all u base all your beliefs from this ONE Tourney, dont u see it? Thats exactly what valve wanted, the whole tournament was for marketing pupose ONLY.This an event that will happen ONCE a year( we are not even 100 % sure about that).
And like i said only teams like navi will really benefit from it.I can garantee u that top counterstrike teams like fnatic,SK,mouz or Navi CS made much more than navis Dota team.So stop spilling false statements becoz of your closeminded fanboyism, i just feel so offended by your post, u show no repsect at all.
And u were the one bringing up the money topic, not me.I was talking about the proffesional aspect and how the game is treated. AND dont even think to associate "e-sports" with dota 2, it doesnt deserve it yet.Only starcraft 2 does.
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People are actually saying winning money in SC2 is easier than doing so in DotA?? What world do you live in? Top 10 NA GM ladder have no shot at Code B Koreans and you say they'll make cash in SC2, LOL.
Given that DotA is a team game, and as such your defects can be complemented by other teammates, it's only logical that it's more likely to do well in DotA compared to SC2, in which individual skill requirements are completely off the charts. Dota's problems have always been the following, in terms of the pro-scene:
-Sponsors
-Tournament organizers
-Unstable teams, probably because of sponsors
-Lack of an "anchor" to the proscene
With Valve behind Dota 2 I expect all of these to change. If you ask me, do I have a better shot at SC2 or Dota, from the same starting point, clearly the answer is Dota.
I don't doubt right now there's more money in SC2, that's very, very clear. But getting there is EXTREMELY difficult.
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NOTHING TO SEE HERE, JUST A JANGBANG DICKCLOWN STOMPING HIS OWN BURYSEWAGE IN COMMUNITY COLLEGE.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On December 11 2011 09:40 LevenT wrote:
Bulba dont make me laugh here.
i know this is the TL forums and i should stay classy here, but i rly would like to harm u physically for all the lies u spread here with your comments.
First of all u base all your beliefs from this ONE Tourney, dont u see it? Thats exactly what valve wanted, the whole tournament was for marketing pupose ONLY.This an event that will happen ONCE a year( we are not even 100 % sure about that).
And like i said only teams like navi will really benefit from it.I can garantee u that top counterstrike teams like fnatic,SK,mouz or Navi CS made much more than navis Dota team.So stop spilling false statements becoz of your closeminded fanboyism, i just feel so offended by your post, u show no repsect at all.
And u were the one bringing up the money topic, not me.I was talking about the proffesional aspect and how the game is treated. AND dont even think to associate "e-sports" with dota 2, it doesnt deserve it yet.Only starcraft 2 does.
..damn aggressive y0
but you are talking about the professional aspect of not the game.. but sponsors. i am sure brood war had the same problem at least outside of Korea where sponsors did not pay up and tournaments did shady things. i dont know why you are correlating the professional aspect to a game that was a mod and not even supported by the company that built its engine.
The game has had barely NO time to be treated professionally. goddamnit the game hasnt even been released yet.
and the OP is asking how to direct his life and without any proof whatsoever of dota's future nor any idea of what will happen, you straight up say "hey dont play this game. cause ive played this game for so long and im a big pro whoopdedoo and i know from experience that this game wont grow, that players wont be treated professionally and its a huge waste of time (INSERT AD HOMINEM COMMENT HERE)"
and then you bring up weak minds with this attitude. What about if this eternalenvy guy has a passion for these type of games? that he loves playing them and that he dislikes playing games like sc2 because he finds it repetitive and boring. i know plenty of people (myself included) who love watching sc2 but dont find a lot of fun playing it for long hours. why? because the game isnt as social as dota where you can play with other friends. so you straight up crushed his dreams and said that "yo, this game you love wont go anywhere, advice you to ditch and join this other game that is a dream come true but is realistically VERY DIFFICULT to get good at/go professional at and against all odds to place even close to the top in any tournament"
also you accuse me of closeminded fanboyism and also articulate that you want to beat the shit out of me because of my opinion which is probably shared with tons of other people here in the wait wait wait... is this the DOTA 2 SUBFORUMS FOR DOTA FANS TALKING ABOUT DOTA 2's FUTURE. someone needs some anger management.
you're the fucking Grinch bud.
also im basing this off tournaments in BETA. the defense -14k prize pool
soon another tournament (not supposed to say it yet) but -20k prize pool
and another tournament that im not supposed to say yet for 5k
but ya this game aint going anywhere.
and only teams like navi will benefit from it?
i know iceiceice from singapore through some asian league. he got his 60k USD cash prize last month. he told me he could pay rent finally and that it changed his life. his team got second place.
i just dont understand what ur tryin to say. your saying it is a once a year tournament. but FOR 1 MILLION DOLLARS? with the other fucking tournaments popping up here and there, thats going to be even more and more.
and its only once a year
and it will only affect navi
and not the 40other players who got close to half a million bucks in prize money who probably have no income/live with their parents/work for low wages or are students.
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If you feel it's the best thing you should do, do it! Don't let yourself get limited by others' opinions, forget the money (as long as you can sustain your lifestyle) and pursue the vision.
Successful people weren't asking others what to do, they just did what they thought would turn out to be best and succeeded at it.
Any good idea not used is a wasted potential if you ask me.Better to do than not to do when it comes to creating something new.
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whatever bulba lets not loop our discussions here,its non-sense.
But at least i know now, why u never cud become a successful player in dota,stay closeminded bro(as u americans would say it).
Have a nice day.
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I'm just going to reiterate the fact that you don't need to go full time to go big in DotA. The mechanics simply don't require you to practice hours and hours a day.
What you do need is connections to equally skilled players that you also have good chemistry with. Make the connections before you go for this.
In regards to Bulba vs LevenT, The International is as ideal as it gets in terms of professionalism/payment/organization and no other tournaments will match it in terms of prize money and organization. But organizations have come a long way in a short time since Levent won his DotA tournaments. The future for DotA is much brighter than Levent makes it out to be, but The International is a terrible standard to expect.
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Yo Levent. I can guarantee you that SK, Fnatic, etc made BARELY AS MUCH money this year on counterstrike than Navi's Dota PLAYERS DID INDIVIDUALLY.
The record for single season winnings for a team was held by Fnatic in 2009 until Navi broke it in 2010 (The year that Arbalet sponsored a ton of high money tournaments which have since closed, and therefore this record will stand for a long long time) with a grand total of 189,000 dollars, for a whole year, winning almost every single major tournament.
Each player for NaVi made 200k for The International, and that was one tournament, they've been placing consistently at the top in every tournament they play in so far, and going on.
EACH PLAYER, made more than the whole counterstrike team did in one year.
Also, pro gamers won't make their living off of prize money, you're telling a guy who was formerly a top HoN player to play SC2, and then what? Not only is he never going to be on the level of the top 10 players in SC2, in order to make that sort of prize money, he won't be able to get the stream numbers that we see out of top players, who are able to make a living due to a combination of streaming.
It is easier to get 500 viewers to watch you play Dota 2 than it is for SC2 right now, just given the fact that SC2 is overly saturated in the stream view market.
Dota 2's future will not be based around prize money, it will be based on how the players make a living, and that will be based on streaming. Do you genuinely think the OP can hop onto SC2 and get viewer numbers when he is already established in this game and genre moreso than he'll be in SC2? Get out of here dude.
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its fine, go out in a bang with your insult and arguments full of fallacy
gday to you sir
mr big pro ks int ex mher levent (omg look im doing the same thing as u!)
ciao
and second off i dont think ive ever played with you nor do i think you have played with me.
and also its ironic your calling me close minded when your entire argument is warning this kid to not try his hand out in competitive dota 2 and to just move to sc2 when he has not even stated he likes playing RTS games nor has any skill in them
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On December 11 2011 10:06 Zlasher wrote:
Yo Levent. I can guarantee you that SK, Fnatic, etc made BARELY AS MUCH money this year on counterstrike than Navi's Dota PLAYERS DID INDIVIDUALLY.
The record for single season winnings for a team was held by Fnatic in 2009 until Navi broke it in 2010 (The year that Arbalet sponsored a ton of high money tournaments which have since closed, and therefore this record will stand for a long long time) with a grand total of 189,000 dollars, for a whole year, winning almost every single major tournament.
Each player for NaVi made 200k for The International, and that was one tournament, they've been placing consistently at the top in every tournament they play in so far, and going on.
EACH PLAYER, made more than the whole counterstrike team did in one year.
Also, pro gamers won't make their living off of prize money, you're telling a guy who was formerly a top HoN player to play SC2, and then what? Not only is he never going to be on the level of the top 10 players in SC2, in order to make that sort of prize money, he won't be able to get the stream numbers that we see out of top players, who are able to make a living due to a combination of streaming.
It is easier to get 500 viewers to watch you play Dota 2 than it is for SC2 right now, just given the fact that SC2 is overly saturated in the stream view market.
Dota 2's future will not be based around prize money, it will be based on how the players make a living, and that will be based on streaming. Do you genuinely think the OP can hop onto SC2 and get viewer numbers when he is already established in this game and genre moreso than he'll be in SC2? Get out of here dude.
One thing to keep in mind though in lieu with the stuff you've mentioned:
Dota 2 has DotaTV. This makes it moreso for Dota than SC2, that you better have a personality like Destiny / fanbase like HuK / analysis like Artosis otherwise people might not see the reason to check out your stream instead.
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OK u guys seem to just twist my words.
But thats just fine.
Let me put my statement here very simple.
U CAN NOT CALL YOURSELF A PROFFESSIONAL PLAYER IF YOU ARE A TOP HON/DOTA/DOTA2/LOL PLAYER.
IN STARCRAFT 2 U CAN.
PERIOD.
i hope u guys understood it now and if not.... u just simply have no experience what it means to be on the top.
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On December 11 2011 10:12 S_SienZ wrote:
One thing to keep in mind though in lieu with the stuff you've mentioned:
Dota 2 has DotaTV. This makes it moreso for Dota than SC2, that you better have a personality like Destiny / fanbase like HuK / analysis like Artosis otherwise people might not see the reason to check out your stream instead.
Which supports a max of like 72 viewers. And for tournament/custom games, a max of 4.
So imagine a scenario where every starcraft 2 viewer lost up to 75 viewers, Uh oh.
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EPT
