EPT
Let's play some dota2 if you're in beta already
Going on "Leave" from University to play DotA 2 - Page 11
| Forum Index > Dota 2 General |
|
Kanadian
Canada8 Posts
Let's play some dota2 if you're in beta already | ||
|
LevenT
Germany55 Posts
On December 11 2011 11:17 Judicator wrote: What proof do you have that it's different than before? Hype is hype, I have yet to see anything substantial. The EG example is promising, but I have yet to see any kind of self-sustaining model in DotA in contrast to say SC2. Edit: Sponsors picking up teams is just an example of hype, more so picking it up before a title is released. Just because said sponsors are here now doesn't mean they'll be there down the line. Could it get better? Sure. Could it get worse? Sure. at least somebody here can see the true situation.Thanks, i respect you. | ||
|
Ognam
United States798 Posts
| ||
|
dtz
5834 Posts
On December 11 2011 10:14 LevenT wrote: OK u guys seem to just twist my words. But thats just fine. Let me put my statement here very simple. U CAN NOT CALL YOURSELF A PROFFESSIONAL PLAYER IF YOU ARE A TOP HON/DOTA/DOTA2/LOL PLAYER. IN STARCRAFT 2 U CAN. PERIOD. i hope u guys understood it now and if not.... u just simply have no experience what it means to be on the top. If you are a professional dota player in China you cant call yourself a professional player? The Dota industry there is so robust and lucrative. It is even close to Korean broodwar and i can argue it has about the same amount of money as SC2. It's just that they don't really cater to the Western/Global Audiences that much so the "outside world" don't talk about them. So i think your statement don't stand. I agree if you put the word Western there though. Not right now at least | ||
|
Judicator
United States7270 Posts
On December 11 2011 11:24 Ognam wrote: I never said it was proof that the game would succeed, only that it's good evidence, considering that this amount of "hype" has never happened to previous game releases. No, people aren't saying it's good evidence, people are jumping to the conclusions. They're saying look at what has happened, then its common sense that this will happen without any substantial proof that it actually will. And what? CoD Modern Warfare franchise had similar amounts of hype. Edit: LevenT's other point focuses on the fact that SC2 is a single player game, you are what you make of your situation. That is not true at all in Dota, do not even pretend it's remotely like that. If you are a top ranked player in SC2, the chances of you being sponsored and truly fit the definition of professional are very high. In DotA, we can't even agree how to judge a players skill let alone actually measure it with some metric or group of metrics. | ||
|
jntkflow
United States337 Posts
On December 11 2011 09:40 LevenT wrote: Bulba dont make me laugh here. i know this is the TL forums and i should stay classy here, but i rly would like to harm u physically for all the lies u spread here with your comments. First of all u base all your beliefs from this ONE Tourney, dont u see it? Thats exactly what valve wanted, the whole tournament was for marketing pupose ONLY.This an event that will happen ONCE a year( we are not even 100 % sure about that). And like i said only teams like navi will really benefit from it.I can garantee u that top counterstrike teams like fnatic,SK,mouz or Navi CS made much more than navis Dota team.So stop spilling false statements becoz of your closeminded fanboyism, i just feel so offended by your post, u show no repsect at all. And u were the one bringing up the money topic, not me.I was talking about the proffesional aspect and how the game is treated. AND dont even think to associate "e-sports" with dota 2, it doesnt deserve it yet.Only starcraft 2 does. You can't even formulate cohesive sentences. I don't think anyone takes your opinion seriously because your logic is so weak. Please don't speak on e-sports as if you know everything just because you played DotA and have seen a little bit of the 1 year old SC2 bubble. | ||
|
BuLba
United States1585 Posts
On December 11 2011 11:24 LevenT wrote: at least somebody here can see the true situation.Thanks, i respect you. dont mistake him acting like the devils advocate for the statements you said. yours had no proof, and no basis of argument and were just wild accusations and exemplary of middle school logic. keep maintaining those delusions of grandeur and thinking your relevancy is still alive. =/ | ||
|
Sina92
Sweden1303 Posts
| ||
|
EternaLEnVy
Canada513 Posts
On December 11 2011 11:23 Kanadian wrote: Didn't read thread but Hi Envy Let's play some dota2 if you're in beta already i need a key, but if I don't get one I'll probably juist play dota 1 | ||
|
Elasticity
3420 Posts
On December 11 2011 11:39 EternaLEnVy wrote: i need a key, but if I don't get one I'll probably juist play dota 1 you don't even have a key ... well good luck with your plan | ||
|
LevenT
Germany55 Posts
On December 11 2011 11:33 Judicator wrote: No, people aren't saying it's good evidence, people are jumping to the conclusions. They're saying look at what has happened, then its common sense that this will happen without any substantial proof that it actually will. And what? CoD Modern Warfare franchise had similar amounts of hype. Edit: LevenT's other point focuses on the fact that SC2 is a single player game, you are what you make of your situation. That is not true at all in Dota, do not even pretend it's remotely like that. If you are a top ranked player in SC2, the chances of you being sponsored and truly fit the definition of professional are very high. In DotA, we can't even agree how to judge a players skill let alone actually measure it with some metric or group of metrics. exactly, and thats why i advice him to play starcraft 2 because i dont want him to make the same mistake that i did and falsely put effort into sth that just remained to be a dream at the end. And with the right will and passion anybody in this world can become good at sc2. So be on the safer side and play starcraft, start become a man. Chance on you fulfilling your dream in a game like dota are 50/50 probably even less, no matter how good you are. Edit: and dtz thats what i mean anyways, u see i dont even mention china, becoz china is a community on its own. Obviously the competition in China is much bigger but here in the west we dont really profit from their proffessionalism. they host their own events and occasionally they invite teams like eg or navi but mostly they cant go there becoz of visas,exams and whatnot, and basically its a bitch to travel to a country with such closed borders like china and yet alone live there and organize hotels and stuff like that. | ||
|
Leeoku
1617 Posts
| ||
|
RLTY
United States965 Posts
| ||
|
BuLba
United States1585 Posts
theres countless amounts and sc2 is such a volatile game that hanging your future on this pin is so risky. to get famous/to be professional, you need an assortment of luck/skill and personality. at this stage the scene is so developed that its hard for new players to get any light. people want to watch huk, to watch idra, to watch nestea. players that dominated the beta were weeded out because they didnt have what it took to keep in the race with these other guys. What did they lack? work ethic? practice? some gene ^^? the competition from korea is also there. know that how hard you practice and how much competition you face, a korean is facing competition 10x better and practicing with 10x more efficiency. Eventaully he (my friend) realized how much time he had wasted in all of this. To get to the level he was at took a lot but to actually break out to the top of the professional scene was way too much work. TO become that famous player ( that professional) who is sponsored by EG/Mouz/dignitas/liquid took an assortment of so many factors. If breaking into the scene and actually making money of sc2 is as easy as you say, why does my friend and the thousands of other players in grandmaster/top masters not meet the status of those top pros? its retarded to say that skill is the only factor to make you famous in sc2. TO even acquire more skill, you need to have proper training partners which require a team. to make it sound so easy. Even getting into those top tournaments where all the sponsors are watching now is ridiculously hard. NASL qualifiers have so many top players that it would be against all odds a player that is unknown would make it. IPL features top koreans. MLG has so many koreans and top players in the open bracket. It amuses me to think that you can picture yourself so easily to become a top pro. and what qualifies a pro in your eyes in sc2? winning versus some famous player in a random bo3 in a tournament? how much coverage do you actually think you will get after the lights dimmer down. I bet against all odds that you will have no success in Sc2. why? cause the scene is growing. players that are better than you now will keep getting better. new players that are joining the scene from these top korean teams will overshadow everyone as korean sponsors are more eager to create partnerships with Western sponsors and send those players to all foreign competitions. Theres a reason we see the same players at the top in sc2/ the same players winning. you have a few breakout starts like Gatored that appeared out of no where and took out top Koreans but thats one in a million. you are either ignorant or have some delusions on how successful you will be. you lack all logic. you think that because at some time you were relevant in a game that you know what it is to be on the top? hell you shit on dota being so unprofessional. that just contradicts your statement that you were ever at the top. | ||
|
Ruscour
5233 Posts
| ||
|
LevenT
Germany55 Posts
a guy like judicator can easily tell why you are only wasting my time with your 300 words essay on your friend and sc2. Because its too tiring for me to keep telling u. | ||
|
Ack1027
United States7873 Posts
Now there really isn't anything left to discuss in the thread. | ||
|
BuLba
United States1585 Posts
"exactly, and thats why i advice him to play starcraft 2 because i dont want him to make the same mistake that i did and falsely put effort into sth that just remained to be a dream at the end." will it be a dream now? how do you know? you are basing your history with dota 4 years ago to being a dream now, 4 years later on a new engine/new marketing strategy and on a company that supports it. I can say that you playing sc2 and being successful will be a dream too. Dont give me bullshit. you will remain more irrelevant in that game than my friend and he hasnt played sc2 in 3 months. "And with the right will and passion anybody in this world can become good at sc2." my 300 word essay explained this one. as long as your middle school education can read it "So be on the safer side and play starcraft, start become a man." yo i got nothing to say to that. its just a fucking retarded statement but thats been expected of you "Chance on you fulfilling your dream in a game like dota are 50/50 probably even less, no matter how good you are." my 300 word essay explains this 1 too. you can say how much you want about fulfilling your dream in dota. how long your argument may be. but take it by my word, you and anyone else that is a no one and has only played ladder will have a lower chance of fulfilling your dream in sc2 than in dota. and dream is what? being a pro? r u saying that it is harder to be a pro in dota than it is in sc2? look at yourself. you were considered a pro in dota. you are irrelevant in sc2. but then again you said that you cant be a pro in dota, so technically you were never a pro to begin with.. and that means essentially you cant be a pro in anything but sc2 esport related. ya nice logic. hope this tried to summarize what you were saying since your middle school reading comprehension doesnt understand the 300 word essays br0 or who knows, what you were saying with your sentences escapes everyone(myself? zlasher? other people who have read this thread and agree that you are clueless?) and only individuals like judicator can understand your logic. | ||
|
Judicator
United States7270 Posts
On December 11 2011 12:09 BuLba wrote: i find it so funny you are stating that getting into the top of the sc2 scene is as easy as you make it sound. You dont factor in so many possibilites. First, you have to enjoy the game. My friend Aaron Kim used to play broodwar for quite a while. he was ranked A in ICCUP. he quit his job/quit his school and decided to pursue sc2. He was ranked higher than players like huk in broodwar and had a knack for being good at RTS games. This was around 4-5 months ago. he played day in and day out. i think he had a record of like 1000 ladder games played in a span of 3 weeks which is insane. He tried out for complexity's training school on the name xxelitexx. on ladder, he beat top players like grubby/drewbie/Machine. he made it to the top of the masters ladder (before grandmaster) and was consistently matched up versus top pro players. Eventually he tried his hands in these weekly tournaments that sc2 has. This cup/that cup,etc. placed decently in some and beat some good players but the problem was that he had already spent close to 3 months by this time to get this far. ANd he still was not close to the level of the top progamers in terms of popularity/skill. This can be said of so many other players in sc2. look at the ladder. Count how many grandmaster players there are/masters players there are that are capable of making it to the top. theres countless amounts and sc2 is such a volatile game that hanging your future on this pin is so risky. to get famous/to be professional, you need an assortment of luck/skill and personality. at this stage the scene is so developed that its hard for new players to get any light. people want to watch huk, to watch idra, to watch nestea. players that dominated the beta were weeded out because they didnt have what it took to keep in the race with these other guys. What did they lack? work ethic? practice? some gene ^^? the competition from korea is also there. know that how hard you practice and how much competition you face, a korean is facing competition 10x better and practicing with 10x more efficiency. Eventaully he (my friend) realized how much time he had wasted in all of this. To get to the level he was at took a lot but to actually break out to the top of the professional scene was way too much work. TO become that famous player ( that professional) who is sponsored by EG/Mouz/dignitas/liquid took an assortment of so many factors. If breaking into the scene and actually making money of sc2 is as easy as you say, why does my friend and the thousands of other players in grandmaster/top masters not meet the status of those top pros? its retarded to say that skill is the only factor to make you famous in sc2. TO even acquire more skill, you need to have proper training partners which require a team. to make it sound so easy. Even getting into those top tournaments where all the sponsors are watching now is ridiculously hard. NASL qualifiers have so many top players that it would be against all odds a player that is unknown would make it. IPL features top koreans. MLG has so many koreans and top players in the open bracket. It amuses me to think that you can picture yourself so easily to become a top pro. and what qualifies a pro in your eyes in sc2? winning versus some famous player in a random bo3 in a tournament? how much coverage do you actually think you will get after the lights dimmer down. I bet against all odds that you will have no success in Sc2. why? cause the scene is growing. players that are better than you now will keep getting better. new players that are joining the scene from these top korean teams will overshadow everyone as korean sponsors are more eager to create partnerships with Western sponsors and send those players to all foreign competitions. Theres a reason we see the same players at the top in sc2/ the same players winning. you have a few breakout starts like Gatored that appeared out of no where and took out top Koreans but thats one in a million. you are either ignorant or have some delusions on how successful you will be. you lack all logic. you think that because at some time you were relevant in a game that you know what it is to be on the top? hell you shit on dota being so unprofessional. that just contradicts your statement that you were ever at the top. Getting into a team and having said team be stable is easy? At least you have control over your performance in SC2, that is not the case in Dota, you should know this coming from NA. How long have you been in NA DotA scene Bulba? 4/5 years now? How successful are you? Also, what makes you think that the players are the top now will be the players at the top later (in either game)? Look at the turnover rates in DotA and in SC2, which would you rather take? You don't need to be a part of 5 man team to succeed in SC2. You have relatively clear paths to success if you are skilled (if the OP is skilled or capable of being a top player at all) in SC2, that is not true in DotA. There isn't some kind of experience-based skill-gap in either game where a player can't make up the difference. The only difference is that SC2 doesn't require you to work with 4 others for your individual success while Dota 2 requires you to on multiple levels most notably at the sponsorship level. Edit: In any case, you still haven't shown any kind of self-sustaining model in DotA2 compared to SC2. Edit2: Maybe your friend wasn't just that good, was that ever a consideration? | ||
|
BuLba
United States1585 Posts
what constitutes for you, success in sc2? having only a sponsorship/winning nothing/no salary? just a tag? winning occasionally vs a pro in some tournament/some income from gaming/ a semi-respectable tag having that prized sponsorship/ winning or placing in top of tournaments/considered a top player in NA and europe/ having a fanbase and thousands of players watching you being casted by tastosis/husky/day9 which is success in sc2? theres a huge different and gap between what the top receive and what players like my friend receive. they get a tag/ a team to practice with but no income. barely any prize winnings from those weekly tournaments which are actually getting quite hard with koreans like artist and hwangsin entering. then in dota. what is success? if you say that success is only what navi gets, compare that to what the top of success is in sc2. it was by far easier to get what navi has now compared to what a player like huk has with his 6 figure salary or idra with his huge fanbase. Edit: but its not just my friend, how often do you even see new players join the scene and surprise us? develop a fanbase. its always the same streamers with viewers. you have that occasional spanishiwa(his hype has lessened) or gatored (who is quite good) or coltrimaster who takes out idra. but who says they are at the success of huk. success is such a hard term to define. there are levels. in sc2 the gap between levels of success is huge. in dota not so much. in any tournament in any idea, a team can surprise us and do well. but usually the teams doing well are the ones who practice/who have good individual skill and who have good synergy. Most of the top players usually play with themselves anyways. everytime pgg remakes a team, you know whos going to be on it. those same russians. everytime m5 remakes a team, they contain those same players. ya the scene has to maintain stable teams but proving yourself in dota is a lot easier. even playing with the top is easier. I know my teammate Universe, who was a relatively unknown player. However, i used to be friends with him before and asked him to play with me demon and fear when we played in asian leagues on RGC. his skill was recognized and he got a chance to go all the way to the international. Powernet, a player that came out of the scene recently developed a huge fanbase after his performance in MYM prime nations. its easier to mix yourself with the top in dota than it is in sc2. easier to get yourself noticed. Dota casts like joindota and front page gosugamers casts of random dota tournaments maintain 500-1.5k viewers. these are for even small tournaments. compare that to some weekly stream viewer count for a weekly sc2 tournament. the numbers are significantly lower for the latter. what im trying to say is that its way harder to get to the top in sc2 than get noticed than in dota. | ||
| ||
