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LevenT: To those who knows you, you come across as very, very bitter. And probably with good reason, but you're projecting your anger in the wrong direction. You loath the game of DotA for reasons that ultimately has nothing to do with the game itself, but rather people and organizations you feel mistreated by. You're angry because you didn't make as much as you wanted to, due to organizations giving too little or taking too much, because of tournaments not paying out in time and ultimately because you didn't have a good monetary experience with the game. Furthermore, back when you and I were on top, it was much easier at the time. The competition was subpar to say the least, and the same teams always rose to the top, and China wasn't ever a factor at the time. I can understand why you think DotA isn't worthy of being called an e-sport, if you're butthurt about us being the only ones to put an effort into being on top, and easily reached our goal, yet was never rewarded for doing so. But these are different times. The competition has increased tenfolds, without even considering China, and the topteams are actually being appreciated (to some extent).
Ultimately you can't compare SC2 to Dota 2. Not because of genres, but because of the team-aspect. A fair comparison in terms of e-sports would be Counter-Strike. And in that aspect, I honestly don't think the stability of teams are any less erratic in Counter-Strike than it is, or has been, in DotA considering the vast monetary support and exposure of the media one had over another. Organizations like SK has changed around players a lot considering what level they're at, organizations such as MYM has had numerous teams under their brand without one ever really sticking around long enough to be considered 'their' team and the competitive scene of the game has had its fair share of roster-scandals much like DotA (GuX fnatic/SK/fnatic, TaZ kicked/rejoins/leaves, Friis joining mTw/leaving a week later for fnatic and so forth).
When touching the topic of which game is harder to 'get pro at', it's again up to the individual. A lot will find SC2 to be the easier game to develope their skill in and ultimately rise to the top (taking into the account that the player at hand has a gift for the game) simply because they don't have to rely on anyone but themselves and need not take into account training times, weak links, synergy, chemistry, mutual respect, understanding and so forth. Again, CS would be the better game to compare with. And as such, they're pretty much alike. At the end of the day, which game is harder to be a top-player at doesn't really have to do with the games genre, mechanics, learning curve or even your own motivation. It can be narrowed down to something as simple as competition. How much competition is there? If there's next to none, you don't need to hone your skills as often, you don't need to put all of your focus into the game and you probably don't even need to be talented. And using that logic, SC2 obviously has more competition than DotA has. For one, if assuming the competitive playerbases were equally big, which they are not, SC2's is a lot bigger, SC2 would still only need 1 player per every 5 DotA-players. The margin of error in talent, motivation, availability and so forth would then further help SC2 because there's always a player ready to replace another. In DotA, one persons flaws in this aspect cripples the entire team and would as such, for them to be replaced with an equally competitive team, cycle through 10 players where as SC2 would only need 2.
I'm guessing if you've read this far, you already know where I'm heading. I agree that the competition in SC2 is currently a lot harder. With that being said, I think it's a lot more difficult to reach a point where you're simply able to compete in DotA simply due to the difficulties it brings with it to rely on others. If someone came up to me and explained to me that they wanted to compete and try their luck among the best in e-sports, and wanted me to suggest a game for them to do so in, I would say SC2. To me, the important thing in e-sports it not about being in the top. It's about being able to compete over it. I've played DotA competitively for 7 years now and I'm yet to have a roster, and because of that, a competitive level I've been completely satisfied with. I hope competitive players considered some of the best at their game, be it WC/SC/SC2, can at some point in time say they felt they had reached their full potential. Then again, one of the reasons that motivates me to keep on playing is that same reason: I've never been completely satisfied.
Dota 2 is in a very early stage, obviously, but competitively also a very fragile state. It's at a place where I fear the organizations might very well be on their way to destroy its future. They sign teams that has shown any sign of remote popularity in the game and battle over who can sign the best established team in the beta. Problem is, there's only one well-established team. There's only one team that a sponsor would sign had this been in an established game. And obviously they're already signed under Na'Vi. The rest has been more or less taking chances or spraying their pants over getting a team who can supposedly battle Na'Vi, the untouchable million dollar winners, or at least come close in terms of placings in competitions. Because if Na'Vi is 1st, then there's apparently no shame in coming in second, third or even a close fourth. Not even if the level of competition was ridiculously low. Don't get me wrong, I think it's great that there's already a vast amount of interest for the game, and I'm all about giving underdogs a shot at destiny. But what happens when these underdogs, these upcomers, are suddenly considered the teams that are expected to perform, yet on paper are still underdogs? That's where we're heading right now, if you're asking me at least. Some, if not all, of the pickups has been of teams with little to no experience with eachother, having been mostly put together since September, October or even November. Neither of them has players that has noteworthy results or performances in the past, bar Trixi of mousesports, who then again didn't have anything on the resumé in terms of actual DotA. Skillwise, they're definitely at the top, but is that because they're battling eachother? When mediocre meets mediocre, it's bound to be an even battle, no? Not saying these teams are mediocre, they might be the crème de la crème in terms of Dota 2, but what if they're not? What happens when EG comes back from China, what happens if and when China switches over, what happens when better teams prove themselves and makes their entrance into the scene? Will these teams be sustainable and stable? Will the organizations believe in them despite rough patches and downtimes that may seem like forever? Who knows how long these periods might last and what will happen? The organizations don't. The teams doesn't either. Because they have no experience, they have no history and they don't know eachother all that well to begin with. And what happened the last time around when sponsors had their fingers burned? That's right. They ran away. Now that the potential damage is done, let's all just pray that these teams can prove themselves worthy and deliver.
Alright, just came to realize this wasn't a blog or any of the sorts.
OT: Do whatever you damn well please and you have a gut-feeling about. If you deep down know that you're going to be screwing yourself over financially, in a stage where you're struggling to even get by, I don't think e-sports is worth it. If you think you can get by, nothing wrong with eating spaghettiketchup 7 times a week, and it's everything you want to do, then go for it. You're young, plenty of time to jump back on the bandwagon.
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This is what you do:
Stay in university and play dota + stream. If you are good enough and can attract a community of lets say 3k+viewers per normal day you can consider doing it fulltime.
But in your current position making a decision is just stupid, you dont know if you are really any good with it, if you can attract enough viewers and if you can earn enough money to support yourself.
Make it like day9, finish your school, play and work on building up a your fanbase, only then you should decide with path to choose.
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only thing i would like to ask sofus is you state the sponsors made premmature decisions in picking up these mediocre teams who werent really successful in dota 1. but i would like to ask who you consider actually successful
if you look at dota 1's history, its always been the same few groups of people who won tournaments.
Puppey and kuroky's teams, your team and teams , fear's teams, and those russian teams like dts.
so even i was like, some of these pickups werent the best for the sponsors and when eg comes back/navi plays even more and chinese teams start transferring to dota 2, what would happen?
but the problem is that atm there just arent any other teams for the sponsors to sponsor. these teams they are sponsoring are the active ones that are going to the dota 2 beta lans.
i mean your team hasnt been playing much e and i dont exactly know what your guys plan/future is. but who else is there?
the mediocre teams from dota 1 are the ones that are trying to show themselves in dota 2 but what exactly constitutes their "mediocreness". i'd actually say teams like WHB are easily better than teams like m5 atm so the russian team goes out the window.
SK wasnt that bad in dota 1 actually before dota 2. i think they had a few victories in dota 1 vs even navi but still nothing to other standards.
i just want to know who you think deserves these sponsorships atm because there are lans/money to be won and sponsors are attracted by this. if they keep waiting around and not doing anything because there arent any other teams showing activity. i mean if they dont take a chance and not sponsor any teams, there essentially wont be any sponsored teams in dota atm because besides EG and Navi, there havent been any other teams that are playing as much dota 2 that were as successful in dota 1.
also i totally agree about your point regarding all of ESports. if you want to maintain a steady lifestyle and have a reputable income, neither sc2 nor dota should be your main priority.
the chances of being successful are slim to best in each game.
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On December 11 2011 21:39 TheMaelk wrote:+ Show Spoiler +LevenT: To those who knows you, you come across as very, very bitter. And probably with good reason, but you're projecting your anger in the wrong direction. You loath the game of DotA for reasons that ultimately has nothing to do with the game itself, but rather people and organizations you feel mistreated by. You're angry because you didn't make as much as you wanted to, due to organizations giving too little or taking too much, because of tournaments not paying out in time and ultimately because you didn't have a good monetary experience with the game. Furthermore, back when you and I were on top, it was much easier at the time. The competition was subpar to say the least, and the same teams always rose to the top, and China wasn't ever a factor at the time. I can understand why you think DotA isn't worthy of being called an e-sport, if you're butthurt about us being the only ones to put an effort into being on top, and easily reached our goal, yet was never rewarded for doing so. But these are different times. The competition has increased tenfolds, without even considering China, and the topteams are actually being appreciated (to some extent).
Ultimately you can't compare SC2 to Dota 2. Not because of genres, but because of the team-aspect. A fair comparison in terms of e-sports would be Counter-Strike. And in that aspect, I honestly don't think the stability of teams are any less erratic in Counter-Strike than it is, or has been, in DotA considering the vast monetary support and exposure of the media one had over another. Organizations like SK has changed around players a lot considering what level they're at, organizations such as MYM has had numerous teams under their brand without one ever really sticking around long enough to be considered 'their' team and the competitive scene of the game has had its fair share of roster-scandals much like DotA (GuX fnatic/SK/fnatic, TaZ kicked/rejoins/leaves, Friis joining mTw/leaving a week later for fnatic and so forth).
When touching the topic of which game is harder to 'get pro at', it's again up to the individual. A lot will find SC2 to be the easier game to develope their skill in and ultimately rise to the top (taking into the account that the player at hand has a gift for the game) simply because they don't have to rely on anyone but themselves and need not take into account training times, weak links, synergy, chemistry, mutual respect, understanding and so forth. Again, CS would be the better game to compare with. And as such, they're pretty much alike. At the end of the day, which game is harder to be a top-player at doesn't really have to do with the games genre, mechanics, learning curve or even your own motivation. It can be narrowed down to something as simple as competition. How much competition is there? If there's next to none, you don't need to hone your skills as often, you don't need to put all of your focus into the game and you probably don't even need to be talented. And using that logic, SC2 obviously has more competition than DotA has. For one, if assuming the competitive playerbases were equally big, which they are not, SC2's is a lot bigger, SC2 would still only need 1 player per every 5 DotA-players. The margin of error in talent, motivation, availability and so forth would then further help SC2 because there's always a player ready to replace another. In DotA, one persons flaws in this aspect cripples the entire team and would as such, for them to be replaced with an equally competitive team, cycle through 10 players where as SC2 would only need 2.
I'm guessing if you've read this far, you already know where I'm heading. I agree that the competition in SC2 is currently a lot harder. With that being said, I think it's a lot more difficult to reach a point where you're simply able to compete in DotA simply due to the difficulties it brings with it to rely on others. If someone came up to me and explained to me that they wanted to compete and try their luck among the best in e-sports, and wanted me to suggest a game for them to do so in, I would say SC2. To me, the important thing in e-sports it not about being in the top. It's about being able to compete over it. I've played DotA competitively for 7 years now and I'm yet to have a roster, and because of that, a competitive level I've been completely satisfied with. I hope competitive players considered some of the best at their game, be it WC/SC/SC2, can at some point in time say they felt they had reached their full potential. Then again, one of the reasons that motivates me to keep on playing is that same reason: I've never been completely satisfied.
Dota 2 is in a very early stage, obviously, but competitively also a very fragile state. It's at a place where I fear the organizations might very well be on their way to destroy its future. They sign teams that has shown any sign of remote popularity in the game and battle over who can sign the best established team in the beta. Problem is, there's only one well-established team. There's only one team that a sponsor would sign had this been in an established game. And obviously they're already signed under Na'Vi. The rest has been more or less taking chances or spraying their pants over getting a team who can supposedly battle Na'Vi, the untouchable million dollar winners, or at least come close in terms of placings in competitions. Because if Na'Vi is 1st, then there's apparently no shame in coming in second, third or even a close fourth. Not even if the level of competition was ridiculously low. Don't get me wrong, I think it's great that there's already a vast amount of interest for the game, and I'm all about giving underdogs a shot at destiny. But what happens when these underdogs, these upcomers, are suddenly considered the teams that are expected to perform, yet on paper are still underdogs? That's where we're heading right now, if you're asking me at least. Some, if not all, of the pickups has been of teams with little to no experience with eachother, having been mostly put together since September, October or even November. Neither of them has players that has noteworthy results or performances in the past, bar Trixi of mousesports, who then again didn't have anything on the resumé in terms of actual DotA. Skillwise, they're definitely at the top, but is that because they're battling eachother? When mediocre meets mediocre, it's bound to be an even battle, no? Not saying these teams are mediocre, they might be the crème de la crème in terms of Dota 2, but what if they're not? What happens when EG comes back from China, what happens if and when China switches over, what happens when better teams prove themselves and makes their entrance into the scene? Will these teams be sustainable and stable? Will the organizations believe in them despite rough patches and downtimes that may seem like forever? Who knows how long these periods might last and what will happen? The organizations don't. The teams doesn't either. Because they have no experience, they have no history and they don't know eachother all that well to begin with. And what happened the last time around when sponsors had their fingers burned? That's right. They ran away. Now that the potential damage is done, let's all just pray that these teams can prove themselves worthy and deliver.
Alright, just came to realize this wasn't a blog or any of the sorts.
OT: Do whatever you damn well please and you have a gut-feeling about. If you deep down know that you're going to be screwing yourself over financially, in a stage where you're struggling to even get by, I don't think e-sports is worth it. If you think you can get by, nothing wrong with eating spaghettiketchup 7 times a week, and it's everything you want to do, then go for it. You're young, plenty of time to jump back on the bandwagon.
Great post, I agree with every word, especially the part about sponsors blowing their load too early in anticipation of phantom results. No need to mention these organizations by name, but it's obvious a lot of them have jumped the gun to sign whoever is available and assume they can work together. Once these teams fail, we have to hope that talented players can get signed, instead of just players with names or connections, because DotA isn't like SC2 where you can just sit in your room and become extremely good, then go by yourself to some MLGs and place well to get noticed. You really need support to succeed in this game.
I really think the money will be there for DotA2. Valve isn't going to be outdone by Riot, you can bet your ass on that. Icefrog and Gabe Newell have too much pride for that. There will also be plenty of asian sponsors willing to put up prize pools for major tournaments. It's going to be a question of whether the community will allow competition to flourish in the west, get sponsors to set up team houses, etc. If everybody gives up faith, it'll always be a purely asian eSport.
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On December 10 2011 11:22 Darkren wrote:
U sound like u need a psychologue and not quitting school and being stuck infront of a computer alone all day.
Reconsider what makes u happy in life and seek some help.
QUICK! Somebody get this man a PSYCHOLOGUE?!!
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On December 11 2011 23:59 BuLba wrote:
only thing i would like to ask sofus is you state the sponsors made premmature decisions in picking up these mediocre teams who werent really successful in dota 1. but i would like to ask who you consider actually successful
if you look at dota 1's history, its always been the same few groups of people who won tournaments.
Puppey and kuroky's teams, your team and teams , fear's teams, and those russian teams like dts.
so even i was like, some of these pickups werent the best for the sponsors and when eg comes back/navi plays even more and chinese teams start transferring to dota 2, what would happen?
but the problem is that atm there just arent any other teams for the sponsors to sponsor. these teams they are sponsoring are the active ones that are going to the dota 2 beta lans.
i mean your team hasnt been playing much e and i dont exactly know what your guys plan/future is. but who else is there?
the mediocre teams from dota 1 are the ones that are trying to show themselves in dota 2 but what exactly constitutes their "mediocreness". i'd actually say teams like WHB are easily better than teams like m5 atm so the russian team goes out the window.
SK wasnt that bad in dota 1 actually before dota 2. i think they had a few victories in dota 1 vs even navi but still nothing to other standards.
i just want to know who you think deserves these sponsorships atm because there are lans/money to be won and sponsors are attracted by this. if they keep waiting around and not doing anything because there arent any other teams showing activity. i mean if they dont take a chance and not sponsor any teams, there essentially wont be any sponsored teams in dota atm because besides EG and Navi, there havent been any other teams that are playing as much dota 2 that were as successful in dota 1.
also i totally agree about your point regarding all of ESports. if you want to maintain a steady lifestyle and have a reputable income, neither sc2 nor dota should be your main priority.
the chances of being successful are slim to best in each game.
It has nothing to do with Maelk's standards, his personal opinion isn't the focus of his argument, his point is that none of these teams are established or were established beforehand outside of Navi and to some limited extent EG. The money being invested into DotA means shit when it doesn't establish an infrastructure or some kind of business model to make it sustainable. Random weekly tournaments and shit are nice and all, but games like Supreme Commander and Command and Conquer had those too. Is the investment going into Dota 2 building some kind of foundation? Not really. Sponsors coming into DotA isn't anything new and the teams that have been sponsored haven't exhibited any longevity (and history isn't on their side).
Also, sponsoring these teams (by default, since like you said, there aren't a lot out there) at this point in the game's life cycle is a miserable way for sponsors to enter the scene. It's exactly like Maelk said, sponsors are jumping in without any real justification other than the fear that they might miss out. That in turn leads to potentially bad investments in very possibly "mediocre" teams. All this isn't even considering the high roster turnover rate in DotA.
China coming in means very little for the rest of the world. Just look at Korea and Brood War, and they had an established BW pro-gaming model. Now consider China, which doesn't have any of that as of now. It's way too early to be saying that China will somehow be the bedrock of Dota 2 beyond just another community and being just another community is not enough.
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pretty awesome that ur in engineering science at univeristy of toronto, i have a friend in that program and hes getting owned. Im in life science at the same school and like the video said i havent been sober at all in my first or second year lolol.
for those of you who dont know engineering science is for the elite students who had 95%+ averages in high school.
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@OP:
As long as youre not living in korea or are fatality then there is no way to make any money worth mentioning with pro-gaming. In all honesty, forget that thought completly.
If you really want to make some money with gaming, you need to do good and entertaining commentary, videos or tutorials.
Anyone who makes money with gaming doesnt do so with skill, but with being an entertainer.
TotalBiscuit for example...idk exactly if and how much he makes, but potentially just with his streams+sc2 casts, he can/could make a living.
At the same time, if he was a pro s2 gamer, he could not. There is no market for it.
So think about it again. Anyone doing a steam while being a ridiculous troll for 2-3h a day will make more money than you, no matter how good you get. Trust me on this one.
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I don't see how it matters, Dota 2 is about to go big and it's good if he starts now so he can break through faster.
Grubby did the same and many other pro gamers have decided to try gaming for a year instead of pursuing their degree.
It doesn't matter at all, you should just follow your dreams and see if you get somewhere.
Worst that could happen is he lost a year but gained a lot of experience.
I know the thread is about the stream questions but he shouldn't have had that title or the talk about leaving uni if he didn't want to get flak for it.
That said, I support you dude.
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Glad I checked on this thread, even if it has gone way off topic. Some very good opinions here on the potential for dota2 from both sides of the argument.
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The thing is, even IF he "makes it" in dota2, theres no gain to be made. By just being a progamer and streaming your matches, youll make NOTHING. Absolutly nothing. His dedication 12h/day isnt worth jack, that is my point. Outside of asia, making a living with competetive play isnt happening. The people who can do that can literally be counted on one hand.
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On December 11 2011 23:48 Holy_AT wrote:
If you are good enough and can attract a community of lets say 3k+viewers per normal day you can consider doing it fulltime.
not even dendi or tobi get 3k viewers, besides at tournements, but for some random guy to expect 3 viewers is crazy optimistic
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On December 12 2011 04:41 windirein wrote:
The thing is, even IF he "makes it" in dota2, theres no gain to be made. By just being a progamer and streaming your matches, youll make NOTHING. Absolutly nothing. His dedication 12h/day isnt worth jack, that is my point. Outside of asia, making a living with competetive play isnt happening. The people who can do that can literally be counted on one hand.
You can make a decent amount of money streaming; the issue is that are you willing to live under the poverty line? Because that's what most progamers live under. Only the very few elite actually make enough to sustain a decent living, even in SC2. Essentially, he should be doing it because he loves the game that much, not because it is an "easy" way to make money, because it really isn't.
Honestly all this talk about progaming should tell you already how hard it is to make money competitively. It's simply much easier to make money in social MMOs like WoW and be a part of the virtual economy. You'd probably make much more money just participating in things like selling items, accounts, gold, or other things like that.
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^
Well thats essentially what Im saying. Chances of making good money by just being a good gamer are too slim. You could aswell just hope youll randomly become president of the states, thats how likely it is.
On the other hand, its not nearly as hard making some money with entertaining streams/videos as a gamer. You know, good shoutcasters get paid more than good gamers.
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BULBAAAA~! lol noobs.
I read nothing in this thread except the original post.
I used to play DoTa quite alot many years ago. I played @ a few lans and a few major online tournaments when e-sports was still something of a dream for x6.
It definitely affected my RL as my grades and class attendance was quite low. After I graduated I decided I wasn't great enough to go to China and become the best player on earth and now I am an accountant. Without dota I may have been able to be a much more successful accountant, but I am quite successful as it is and I try not to have any regrets. I enjoyed it.
Of my old teammates only 3 still play. Demon - EG for DoTa/DoTa2, Yoda - EZ for HoN, Merc - EZ for HoN? 70+% of the "pros" that are not from Asia today in LoL, HoN and DoTa I have played with or against in some way or form.
The most successful I would think is obviously Demon. And he does not make a lot of money. He makes enough to live and probably make more than he would had he not done that (as he was working at a local movie theater before). What he makes compared to what HuK (from sc2) makes is probably laughable in comparison.
I probably make less than HuK as a 3rd year accountant (I assume hes making from 100-150k in 2011). But it's stable and has a much better future and I will make alot more than him soon. Whereas his time may be over at any point in time that a bunch of new players with better strategies and micro than him will emerge (the game is still very young). You have to remember, before 2010-2011 it was ridiculous to even consider making a true career of e-sports outside of Korea/China as a career. This is all new ground.
You want to stream and make money and practice? You will need a damn good stable team and a damn good sponsor (things are are almost nonexistent for MOB games). I'm sure you can scrape by and you are still young.
But.
Consider it a life experience. If you get good enough you can travel to many new places, meet cool people, and generally have a blast. But in no way is it a career. You SHOULD do this as you will experience something not many have or will have. Sometimes I envy demon for his option of going out to play his heart out all over the world. But the rest of me knows this is the best. Having a home, decent income, great girlfriend and playing games casually. And raging at noobs.
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FREEAGLELAND26780 Posts
So many... good players posting here.
o_O
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On December 12 2011 05:17 superstartran wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2011 04:41 windirein wrote:
The thing is, even IF he "makes it" in dota2, theres no gain to be made. By just being a progamer and streaming your matches, youll make NOTHING. Absolutly nothing. His dedication 12h/day isnt worth jack, that is my point. Outside of asia, making a living with competetive play isnt happening. The people who can do that can literally be counted on one hand. You can make a decent amount of money streaming; the issue is that are you willing to live under the poverty line? Because that's what most progamers live under. Only the very few elite actually make enough to sustain a decent living, even in SC2. Essentially, he should be doing it because he loves the game that much, not because it is an "easy" way to make money, because it really isn't. Honestly all this talk about progaming should tell you already how hard it is to make money competitively. It's simply much easier to make money in social MMOs like WoW and be a part of the virtual economy. You'd probably make much more money just participating in things like selling items, accounts, gold, or other things like that.
actually as long as i can survive without parental support im perfectly happy with giving up everything to try this.
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On December 12 2011 05:36 x6.Chouji wrote:
BULBAAAA~! lol noobs.
I read nothing in this thread except the original post.
I used to play DoTa quite alot many years ago. I played @ a few lans and a few major online tournaments when e-sports was still something of a dream for x6.
It definitely affected my RL as my grades and class attendance was quite low. After I graduated I decided I wasn't great enough to go to China and become the best player on earth and now I am an accountant. Without dota I may have been able to be a much more successful accountant, but I am quite successful as it is and I try not to have any regrets. I enjoyed it.
Of my old teammates only 3 still play. Demon - EG for DoTa/DoTa2, Yoda - EZ for HoN, Merc - EZ for HoN? 70+% of the "pros" that are not from Asia today in LoL, HoN and DoTa I have played with or against in some way or form.
The most successful I would think is obviously Demon. And he does not make a lot of money. He makes enough to live and probably make more than he would had he not done that (as he was working at a local movie theater before). What he makes compared to what HuK (from sc2) makes is probably laughable in comparison.
I probably make less than HuK as a 3rd year accountant (I assume hes making from 100-150k in 2011). But it's stable and has a much better future and I will make alot more than him soon. Whereas his time may be over at any point in time that a bunch of new players with better strategies and micro than him will emerge (the game is still very young). You have to remember, before 2010-2011 it was ridiculous to even consider making a true career of e-sports outside of Korea/China as a career. This is all new ground.
You want to stream and make money and practice? You will need a damn good stable team and a damn good sponsor (things are are almost nonexistent for MOB games). I'm sure you can scrape by and you are still young.
But.
Consider it a life experience. If you get good enough you can travel to many new places, meet cool people, and generally have a blast. But in no way is it a career. You SHOULD do this as you will experience something not many have or will have. Sometimes I envy demon for his option of going out to play his heart out all over the world. But the rest of me knows this is the best. Having a home, decent income, great girlfriend and playing games casually. And raging at noobs.
I don't really have much of a concern for money as other people though. Honestly staying home all day and playing games and doing other shit on the internet may not be what I tottaly want but it's good enough for me. If I'm gurateed that I can at least do that then I think this path isn't suicidal at all. OFC, I'm aimming for much more, but scrapping by is good enough honestly.
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levent and eternal envy really good players, both would make it easily to the top in dota2. If they consider it worth it, that is.
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On December 12 2011 05:44 EternaLEnVy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2011 05:36 x6.Chouji wrote:
BULBAAAA~! lol noobs.
I read nothing in this thread except the original post.
I used to play DoTa quite alot many years ago. I played @ a few lans and a few major online tournaments when e-sports was still something of a dream for x6.
It definitely affected my RL as my grades and class attendance was quite low. After I graduated I decided I wasn't great enough to go to China and become the best player on earth and now I am an accountant. Without dota I may have been able to be a much more successful accountant, but I am quite successful as it is and I try not to have any regrets. I enjoyed it.
Of my old teammates only 3 still play. Demon - EG for DoTa/DoTa2, Yoda - EZ for HoN, Merc - EZ for HoN? 70+% of the "pros" that are not from Asia today in LoL, HoN and DoTa I have played with or against in some way or form.
The most successful I would think is obviously Demon. And he does not make a lot of money. He makes enough to live and probably make more than he would had he not done that (as he was working at a local movie theater before). What he makes compared to what HuK (from sc2) makes is probably laughable in comparison.
I probably make less than HuK as a 3rd year accountant (I assume hes making from 100-150k in 2011). But it's stable and has a much better future and I will make alot more than him soon. Whereas his time may be over at any point in time that a bunch of new players with better strategies and micro than him will emerge (the game is still very young). You have to remember, before 2010-2011 it was ridiculous to even consider making a true career of e-sports outside of Korea/China as a career. This is all new ground.
You want to stream and make money and practice? You will need a damn good stable team and a damn good sponsor (things are are almost nonexistent for MOB games). I'm sure you can scrape by and you are still young.
But.
Consider it a life experience. If you get good enough you can travel to many new places, meet cool people, and generally have a blast. But in no way is it a career. You SHOULD do this as you will experience something not many have or will have. Sometimes I envy demon for his option of going out to play his heart out all over the world. But the rest of me knows this is the best. Having a home, decent income, great girlfriend and playing games casually. And raging at noobs. I don't really have much of a concern for money as other people though. Honestly staying home all day and playing games and doing other shit on the internet may not be what I tottaly want but it's good enough for me. If I'm gurateed that I can at least do that then I think this path isn't suicidal at all. OFC, I'm aimming for much more, but scrapping by is good enough honestly.
Here's the best advice I can give you. Talk to people like a career councilor of you have access to one. Make sure that you have some sort of back-up plan if you don't make it. I like how you have the balls to do this, but remember, just like anything else in life, you have to remember that you are taking a risk. I once wanted to go pro at tennis until I started talking to some former pros and realized that the amount of work you put in versus the payoff was ridiculous (as in, you put in years of your life for a matter of minimum wage at best).
I do remember playing you in a few games of HoN, and you are indeed exceptionally talented, much more than some "pros" at HoN. Just remember that if you are going to go out there and try something like this, that you have completely thought about it. As other guys have been saying in this thread, the world of E-Sports is not stable. Even if you make it big, you can easily be swept aside and have no backup plan.
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EPT
