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This is a heated issue, but please keep the debate civil.
Personal insult is not 'discussion' and will be moderated. -Pg 36 |
Wtf, why does this have to be discussed in public, genna? I mean its impossible this is really the reason you quit your own team. If it is.. you must be really foolish.
I mean, this looks like someone who just didnt want to manage a team anymore, but didnt want to face it and instead making other people bad to not look bad herself. But for being so long in eSports this is REALLY immature und unprofessional. I am pretty sure Dennis made even other mistakes beside his small faux pas, but thats, as mentioned, pretty normal, even if he is a professional one, but he apologized for them. Of course it is normal, that most things that are discussed are done behind closed curtains. Posting this in public doesnt just destroy the image of a company, it mires the whole work the company(in this case TaKeTV) did in the past.
This shows that esports is still not that professional as it needs to be. Without professionality growth cant be considered. Without growth, esports will fall back to its status 10 years ago. Means to nothing.
Nevertheless i am certain this is something that doesnt happen everyday, so everyone calm down, its sad this had to happen, but its not the end of the world.
Dennis is no bad person, he puts A LOT effort in his work. Alone this fact deserved to be respected, because there are not that many people who put in this that much effort.
Keep on going TaKe, shit must taste good, to be able to reach the top of the line, because you will have to face it some more times in the future 
/edit: nice i started a new page, now i have all the attention, muahaha :D/
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Khai you are missing the point. Months ago it was already made public that 1500 $ will be paid towards the teamsas travel expenses and not more as it was the first season. Its not bad planning or foresight. Its simply a matter of budget and sponsoring.
While taketv fucked up not providing Genna with the email she/axiom fucked up assuming all travel expenses will be paid. Mistakes on both sides, no need for drama. The real drama started when her transparency leaked privat logs of conversations they had and take didnt handle that very well. Once again mistakes on both sides. Its a loss for us all and a shame. I wish people would move on
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You may say I am biased towards Take as a German, but let me tell you, I don't always agree with what Dennis says or does.
But how can you blame Take on that topic? To break this book of blabla down to a single fact, the manager of a participating team of a cup just assumed the trip to offline finals would get payed and shitstormed the shit out of the host involving private chats?
That's unprofessional in any kind I can think of. As a manager, you never have to assume anything, you have to ensure important facts. Terrible managing, terrible acting as a personality afterwards.
Bad played Genna, your acting casts a cloud over Team Axiom.
Well played Dennis this time (apart from the sueing), I'm sure ATC Finals will still be pretty damn good.
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Wow what a mess  . I think posting the last chatlog here is a really low blow. Take was probably really upset when he wrote it as he was afraid his relationship with sponsor Acer was in danger, and as we all know getting sponsors is really, really hard. Also he probably worked really hard on the tournament and was dissapointed in the way Axiom handled the situation. (just assuming you would get free flights is a bit naive to say the least...)
A second reason why you shouldn't post personal chat logs is that it is not a good way to communicate about complicated matters. Words can be misinterpreted and a sentence can turn out to be read differently than the author had in mind. Type a sentence, press enter, boom. Especially since Take is not a native english speaker and is not 100% fluid. (my opinion after seeing his interviews at dreamhack). Also we just can't know if it is just a exempt of the whole log or not.
I also understand the way Gemma Bain feels, as in this community you will always get shit on for whatever, so it takes a special mindset to be able to deal with that. If you let it affect you personally by focusing on the negative feedback instead of the positive feedback, I understand that you will feel very bad and I feel sorry for her. Gemma feeling bad is probably one of the main reasons TB is raging and cursing, but he should just stop doing that as it is helping nobody and a bit disrespectful towards Take imo.
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On August 16 2013 20:45 Capped wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 20:29 TaKeSeN wrote:
We sent an email which said we have 20k pricemoney and an offline finale and they agreed to play it via mail.
After they played the last playday they realize we dont pay the whole trip cause we give them a reminder that we offer 1500 and hotels and then this happens? This is very sad honestly.
//Dennis This is where it all stemmed from, i keep saying it and everyone else is jumping up and down about bullshit that doesnt matter. Genna assumed this, never looked into it or had any information regarding it and everything went to shit because of it. She realised she fucked up and started trying to strawman / put blame where it wasnt (at people and other information) then all of a sudden has a breakdown and leaves the team when it doesnt work. Its sad honestly, both that she fucked up and she has other personal / business issues not regarding the team, but its no excuse to 1) fuck up and especially 2) start throwing around private emails / walls of text that dont even matter and shitflinging at people. This could have been solved with one line. "I didnt realise my team would have to pay for travel and accommodation to an offline finals" Followed by "It is my fault, i assumed the costs would be paid with no information stating or remotely hinting at this and i neglected to read the email properly that informed us of an offline finals" Ending with! "Im sorry." Instead of lying about not being told about an offline finals (in the same post she posted a private email saying there WAS an offline finals) and untold other crap. Again. Ass UMe
This, I wanted to type basically the same thing but since you did it for me. **bows** Take said he was sorry like 5-10 times in his post and in his direct messages but not a single time did the Axiom team every say they were sorry for assuming something. Also though I want to applaud Genna for recognizing that Take did everything he could to try and straighten out the situation. It was/is a very frustrating situation and it would be very easy to get mad at the people involved rather than the circumstances.
Sucky situation where neither party wins.
Take you are an upstanding gentleman and Genna thank you for being mature and not attacking Take.
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On August 16 2013 21:47 MuMeise wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 21:33 Grettin wrote:Every German in this thread backing up their e-sports hero. How i'm not surprised. This is the best fucking response i've seen in this thread for a while. Exactly my thoughts and thanks for saying it. On August 16 2013 21:20 unkkz wrote:
Lol this is hilarious. Genna's first blog post goes way too indepth to explain everything, it could have been summarized in 1/3 of the text. She fucked up not checking the financial aspect. TakeTV fucked up not providing that information. In the end everyone fucked up and i honestly don't see what the point of her first blog post even was.
Then this gets blown way out of proportion like a bunch of six year olds. Genna quit's over some silly drama(maybe just looking for an exscuse to get out anyway) Take overreacts to some silly skype logs and then TB goes of the rails as usual and starts throwing insults around.
This is hurting e-sports etc but really, this is just a bunch of people being very unprofessional and messing up in a lot of aspects. Honestly... not every german. I am american livin in germany and working for a german software company as a manager. To be completely clear on this: I am in no way backing up take for what he said... It's just a miserable childish practise to release private chats.
It was a 'figure of speech' if you will. Obviously i'm not calling out every German. But people who are biased towards something, usually forget that there is the other side in the story as well.
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Take, you should really start using more commas, paragraphs etc 
The rest are pretty obvious, many noob mistakes. Pros should double-check everything. But here, some things weren't even checked once ...
Then TB had to support his wife/the person who he co-decided should be Axiom's team owner/manager.
What I don't get is how TB & GB didn't expect mistakes from their part to happen, when none of them had previous experience in running an esports team. Genna should be giving HERSELF some time to adjust and learn. TB describes her involvement in esports being a very bad and stressing experience for her. We don't have enough info, maybe it was. Its her right to quit and it might be better for the team if someone more experienced took over.
Take's part should have sent the info about the 1500$ and shouldn't have mentioned anything legal related. Both parties showed immaturity at some degree.
Esports is mostly about young people, either they're watching or organizing/hosting. Mistakes will happen. People should learn and get better.
PS: I have a complaint to make about some kind of big European tournaments only being cast by taketv in German. Is this taketv's choice? Or no other European casting parties are interested?
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I still love both Genna and Dennis and support them. What now?
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After reading all of TB's comments here and the podcast on soundcloud concerning the retirement i want to voice my opinion too.
1. It was very clearly communicated from the beginning that theres going to be an offline final. It wasnt directly communicated how travel costs will be handled. - minor screw up for TakeTV
2. Axiom manager Genna assumes falsely that there was no offline final despite it being stated in the first email that the finals are being held at Takes apartement in Krefeld. When finding out there was an offline final, she assumes that all travel costs will be covered by the tournament absent any indication of that. Since those information are crucial for the participation of Axiom it would have been compulsory for Axiom to ask about it or inform themselves. (the needed information where out there for everyone to see)
Covering full travel expenses by tournaments in esports is in no way silently implied. not for teamleagues, not for wcs, not for any tournament. (TB disagrees with this opinion) - big screw up for Axiom
3. Axiom decides not to invest private funds to be used for the travel costs to ATC, prioritizing to limit costs for this period and in hope to have operations break even instead of finding a similar solution to MVP to somehow save their ATC participation.
MVP's model in my eye: Offering community content in exchange for teleological donations to fund their travels.
MVP's model in TB's eye: putting out the begging bowl (perceived unethical for a team with allegedly good sponsors)
Hard decision. You got to respect that they dont want to put in more of their private funds. But MVP showed that there are other options. The sponsorship exposure at an event like ATC is unparalleled so my personal opinion would be like Take funding private money or go with the MVP model. - I would give a slight edge to Take
4. Axioms decision wasnt perceived well. Instead of just admitting that faults have been made on both sides and focussing on the good side that someone is replacing them, the explanation is just about blaming circumstances and TakeTV for not mentioning what they wont pay. Although assuming that travel costs will be fully paid is a fault of Axiom alone.
It would have been better just to say: " I falsely assumed travel costs would be fully paid and i failed to come up with an adequate solution to save Axioms participation in time. I'm sorry, i've made a mistake and i feel horrible about it."
Everyone would support you and say, "dont take it too hard. mistakes happen. You've tried your best but it didnt work out."
Thats what you want to hear. But you dont achieve that by blaming everything and everyone else when they are not to blame. Also it doesnt help to be aggressive towards people on forums and insult and talk down on people like TB does. Always playing the "I'm the mighty TotalBiscuit, who the fuck are you, midget? Do you even know who i am? I do so much, i work so hard, be grateful! Why are you not grateful, you ungrateful prick?"-card
Some people might enjoy that if you do that to someone else who truely deserves it. But not to people that make good points on this forum.
5. In an effort to reduce the hate Axiom was getting, Genna posts her first blog post, revealing a lot of inside chats with take, he might get in trouble for, because he tries to do everything to save a participation of Axiom. The thing that Take has to put in some of his own money and that he doesnt treat all teams equally by providing more for some teams that cant afford it are things that might get him in trouble. Also it makes it seem like Acer wasnt providing enough money to run such a teamleague. Thats not what you would call positive PR for Acer. I would feel uneasy to publish private chats without the consent of the people involved. It should be common sense to ask everyone for their consent first. - mistake on Axioms side
6. Take is not pleased and overreacts a little bit by threatening legal actions. I can understand where hes coming from, you really should have asked first. But i doubt it will lead to anything. - small minus point for take because it could have been handled better
7. So now Genna decides to retire because this is one issue too much for her to handle. The podcast also mentions depressions and suicide thoughts and such. Im not a psychiatrists but from personal experience it helps for me if you just admit faults and move on instead of just searching for blame somewhere else all the time. Its kinda releasing stress to do that.
So the situation is: Take is pissed about publishing private chats. What does Genna do? Publish more private chats.
In attempt to display herself as the victim and martyr herself to prove that point. Thats how it comes across. and it stirs up so much drama.
In the end i think its good for her to retire, because it seems like the more she does to calm things down, the worse it gets. Especially because TB always stirs up more trouble in the comments and ruining her-well meant attempts to clear the air.
Just my thoughts to this whole odyssey
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On August 16 2013 21:42 Khai wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 17:40 Roqshu wrote:On August 16 2013 17:37 Khai wrote:
This is ridiculous, as a fan of e-Sports I am completely and utterly disappointed in which the manner TaKe has dealt with this. Completely lost my respect for TaKe and will be avoiding his events from hereon in. Some transparency is good in a startup industry and in an e-Sport, fans should know if there are issues like this, threatening to sue for someone revealing truths to fans is just low. Axiom qualified 2nd in the group stage, was not given funds to travel and you expect them to keep it a secret without explaining to fans? I hope TaKe will take a good hard look on his own conduct, defending sponsors is no reason to act like a douche. Act like a douche? He even offered Genna to ask Acer if they could help in this situation. There is only one douche in this matter, and that's the person who writes "fuck you, take" in his twitter. Firstly, if you organise an event as big as this and invite a team from another country how can you not take into account travel costs for them? That's bad management, from what I understood team MVP had to raise some funds to attend, they're first and have a good chance so they decided to take the risk. 4th place gives $2000 which might not even cover travel. If that was the case he shouldn't have allowed Korean teams to compete. Secondly, ok he offered to pay for travel? In the end was it enough? No, Axiom had to pull out. MVP tried to raise funds and takes a risk. Refer to first point, lack of foresight, TaKe has to take responsibility. Thirdly, he threatened to sue because someone revealed what he said? Why is it that it has to be a secret? Protecting sponsors is fine but rather than trying to fix stuff he goes aggressive, hardly kind. You can't blame me for losing my respect for that guy as an organiser, I knew of a TaKe with plenty of credibility hosting events but this is one too many scandal and I refer to Axiom (a small privately owned team) having to pull out this way + threat of legal action is just douchey in my books.
So it is the responsibility of a tournament organizer that the TEAMS can come to the offline finals? (yes it was clear that it was an offline final) Really, if I organize something at location A, I'm not responsible if people from Timbuktu want to come but don't have the means - that is not my fucking problem.
Sorry, but your post is absolute bollocks. And again, Take didn't threat with legal action, he phrased it differently. There is a distinct difference between "actually i hope that by law this is something you can get punnished (sic) for?", and 'I am going to sue you, my lawyer will be filing a suit in court within 24hrs'.
His statement was that what she did was (under German law) illegal, and that she COULD get punished for it - not a direct threat of legal action.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51434 Posts
On August 16 2013 20:29 TaKeSeN wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Hey this is the first time i gonna put a statement her to the whole situation after the statements.
I don t get why this had to happen and Genna now gonna leave it but she might be even more emotional than me but then i dont actually understand why she reacted like this - everyone is different but here my story.
First of all i wanna appologize that i reacted emotional! This is not correct and nothing i can take back.
And now you get my 100% honest thought about the situation and this probably even pushed her to stop?
I really didnt wanna say to much about the whole situation cause i think it just hurts both sites and makes no sense at all i am always the guy who tries to find a solution together in every single way in privat at work family whatever.
So what do i do? I try to talk to people to solve problems if they happen which can always happen sometimes i fuck up sometimes someone else or whoever but in the end for me its just important to find a solution with everyone TOGETHER!
For myself i would never post privat chats which i had with someone- if its about privat stuff like friends/Girlfriend whatever even if i am angry or businessstuff like in this case cause this can hurt everyone not only one person and for myself you hurt my privacy which is very important to me.
A few things i wanna ADD. i kept talking to Genna about a statement about Axiom not attending she did saturday, sunday, monday, tuesday and i think she posted it wednesday? She never responded just saturday once she is in a broadcast or so and will come back to me later. i reminded her 5 times or more on different days and she even talked to other people that she got my messages but never wanted to answer me - and in the end she said cause of the timezones we missed each other!??! I dont know but this is pretty lame. I really hate it that i have to do a statement like this and its also kinda emotional cause all this means alot to me i have one aim doing a good job make alot of people happy and enjoy what i do but no its me getting shit because i tried to calm down for the whole situation and dont bring up any bad words about anyone cause everyone does mistakes from time to time and she publishes every single word we discussed in private about this thing - Is this what we call professional? At least i dont see that.
I will still not publish stuff she said cause even if i am angry i will just describe a little bit...
In the whole season she almost never replied to emails once she didnt answer 11 days or so? on 10 mails...as you probably realized we even had to do replaycasts cause axiom didnt play thier matches - Genna (when she answered) mentioned they have stuff to do but with the day we talked to Crank instead of her it worked perfectly fine and even the players thought they have to wait and dont have to play games even when we were pushing it alot and reminded her etc..
Its really frustrating to me tbh cause what i wanted from the start was just a statement from both sites that the situation was fucked up abit and both sites did some mistakes and no one would ever be angry so why Genna didn you try to get something solved together and now act like this? I even told you before saturday that if you do a statement please lets do it together and find the best possible way for everyone.
THE MOST IMPORTANT THING!!!
But lets come back to why this all started - Axiom expected us to pay 100% of the trip which we never said/Promised or even mentioned we with a single word. We cant promise stuff like this if we dont have the ressources for it. So we didnt.
We sent an email which said we have 20k pricemoney and an offline finale and they agreed to play it via mail.
After they played the last playday they realize we dont pay the whole trip cause we give them a reminder that we offer 1500 and hotels and then this happens? This is very sad honestly.
How would you ever expect we can pay 4 teams fulltrips from korea and wouldnt even mention it to the teams? I think the only organizazion who can provide it is Blizzard at the moment?
One thing which was just meant as a help for the teams was the support we give and i know that the costs are very high for all teams thats why i wanted to have this support and kept talking to sponsors about it and for Season 2 we even want to raise it that was sure from the beginning but we never knew if the league will work out it was a nice try.
But well our mistake was to not communicate it. We wanted and thought the mail was sent to everyone at Cebit in March but it wasn t. I am sorry about that to all teams!
But still i think if i dont communicate any help you won t expect any support at all cause you dont go to a Dreamhack or HomeStorycup and expect we pay all trips and not even tell you.
I really love what i do and i do it every day 7 days 80hours+ a week almost all over the year and only take very small breaks from esport to get some privat time and vacation etc. Cause i love esport and i appreciate it soo much that i can have a job in this business but honestly this really hurts me my motivation my heart and i am honestly sad really sad that this has to happen.
Right now i have almost all emotions in me but also i am angry about what Genna does and how she handled it.now i also wrote what i think she did wrong but if i wouldnt do it i could not live with what she did and on the same moment feel okay.
@Genna - If you finally wanna talk for the first time about the statement and how everything went seriously i am still up for it even if so much shit flew around.
Since she posted so much she also posted that i pay costs for Liquid from my own privat wallet cause the situation was not perfect and i wanted to find a solution and LIQUID kept talking to me and really wanted to find a solution.
One more thing i even offered Genna that i would think about also helping them also from my own money to bring them here - She never reacted on that and tried to find a conversation about this and in the very end after she almost never replied i said okay well we cant pay it cause i already felt bad that i offer solutions and try to find options but the other site seems like they not even care.
I want to appologize to the whole community for what i did wrong and the whole situation i honestly think no one is perfect expecially me and everyone does some mistakes but this makes me look so bad cause someone probably even wanted this happen...and didnt even try to fix stuff together.
This was MY honest statement which could even have more stuff in it - Its what I think and no one else.
I ve seen comments about NOW i won t watch TaKeTV anymore which really hurted me alot tbh but i think i explained my situation and what happend if people still say okay TaKe is an Idiot i respect it and i lost viewers cause this is what i think and did cause its me.
Thank you for reading my horrible text!
//Dennis
Pretty much how i thought the whole thing went without even knowing this side of the story, emotional people can't run a business in any sector, let alone E-Sports. There is a way to do things at a business level and there is a way not to do things. Genna's way is the way you DONT do things and Takes way is the way you do things. Hell i don't even care who is right on the whole situation, i haven't even followed the ATC as i found it rather silly format, but the way Axiom have portrayed themselves is really poorly. If you don't want to participate in the tournament just make a sure sweet announcement that your not participating in it due to some "communication" issues, not create pointless, needless drama. Then think you have a god given right to lay the whole conversations with the people involved out as if it is some which hunt. THAT IS NOT HOW TO GO ABOUT IT, whether your right or wrong. This is getting worst and worst, and people seriously need to grow up and think how business' are run. Do you see any sports teams releasing skype conversations between owners and sponsors or league organizations and teams?! No, they do it more professionally!
Now we thought SlayerS Jessica was a big problem, when she finally stepped down a sigh of relief happened as she was hurting the image of E-Sports, we have had no other (major) problems/issues since and now we have this again making the whole image of the scene look childish and unprofessional. And in a sense cost someone there job even though im sure all the players loved Genna being in charge of Axiom.
We need to stop causing these pointless dramas because people act like children and don't understand how business works!
STOP WITCH HUNTING AND START SUPPORTING E-SPORTS!
On August 16 2013 21:55 SpikeStarcraft wrote:
After reading all of TB's comments here and the podcast on soundcloud concerning the retirement i want to voice my opinion too.
1. It was very clearly communicated from the beginning that theres going to be an offline final. It wasnt directly communicated how travel costs will be handled. - minor screw up for TakeTV
2. Axiom manager Genna assumes falsely that there was no offline final despite it being stated in the first email that the finals are being held at Takes apartement in Krefeld. When finding out there was an offline final, she assumes that all travel costs will be covered by the tournament absent any indication of that. Since those information are crucial for the participation of Axiom it would have been compulsory for Axiom to ask about it or inform themselves. (the needed information where out there for everyone to see)
Covering full travel expenses by tournaments in esports is in no way silently implied. not for teamleagues, not for wcs, not for any tournament. (TB disagrees with this opinion) - big screw up for Axiom
3. Axiom decides not to invest private funds to be used for the travel costs to ATC, prioritizing to limit costs for this period and in hope to have operations break even instead of finding a similar solution to MVP to somehow save their ATC participation.
MVP's model in my eye: Offering community content in exchange for teleological donations to fund their travels.
MVP's model in TB's eye: putting out the begging bowl (perceived unethical for a team with allegedly good sponsors)
Hard decision. You got to respect that they dont want to put in more of their private funds. But MVP showed that there are other options. The sponsorship exposure at an event like ATC is unparalleled so my personal opinion would be like Take funding private money or go with the MVP model. - I would give a slight edge to Take
4. Axioms decision wasnt perceived well. Instead of just admitting that faults have been made on both sides and focussing on the good side that someone is replacing them, the explanation is just about blaming circumstances and TakeTV for not mentioning what they wont pay. Although assuming that travel costs will be fully paid is a fault of Axiom alone.
It would have been better just to say: " I falsely assumed travel costs would be fully paid and i failed to come up with an adequate solution to save Axioms participation in time. I'm sorry, i've made a mistake and i feel horrible about it."
Everyone would support you and say, "dont take it too hard. mistakes happen. You've tried your best but it didnt work out."
Thats what you want to hear. But you dont achieve that by blaming everything and everyone else when they are not to blame. Also it doesnt help to be aggressive towards people on forums and insult and talk down on people like TB does. Always playing the "I'm the mighty TotalBiscuit, who the fuck are you, midget? Do you even know who i am? I do so much, i work so hard, be grateful! Why are you not grateful, you ungrateful prick?"-card
Some people might enjoy that if you do that to someone else who truely deserves it. But not to people that make good points on this forum.
5. In an effort to reduce the hate Axiom was getting, Genna posts her first blog post, revealing a lot of inside chats with take, he might get in trouble for, because he tries to do everything to save a participation of Axiom. The thing that Take has to put in some of his own money and that he doesnt treat all teams equally by providing more for some teams that cant afford it are things that might get him in trouble. Also it makes it seem like Acer wasnt providing enough money to run such a teamleague. Thats not what you would call positive PR for Acer. I would feel uneasy to publish private chats without the consent of the people involved. It should be common sense to ask everyone for their consent first. - mistake on Axioms side
6. Take is not pleased and overreacts a little bit by threatening legal actions. I can understand where hes coming from, you really should have asked first. But i doubt it will lead to anything. - small minus point for take because it could have been handled better
7. So now Genna decides to retire because this is one issue too much for her to handle. The podcast also mentions depressions and suicide thoughts and such. Im not a psychiatrists but from personal experience it helps for me if you just admit faults and move on instead of just searching for blame somewhere else all the time. Its kinda releasing stress to do that.
So the situation is: Take is pissed about publishing private chats. What does Genna do? Publish more private chats.
In attempt to display herself as the victim and martyr herself to prove that point. Thats how it comes across. and it stirs up so much drama.
In the end i think its good for her to retire, because it seems like the more she does to calm things down, the worse it gets. Especially because TB always stirs up more trouble in the comments and ruining her-well meant attempts to clear the air.
Just my thoughts to this whole odyssey
This also is pretty much how everything is portrayed, so Genna TB and Take read this, and look in the mirror!
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On August 16 2013 13:00 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 12:58 Joedaddy wrote:
Pretty shitty move when you make what one presumed to be a private conversation public. Even if you didn't think it was a big deal, Dennis obviously did. Fuck Dennis. If he wasn't so concerned about saving face rather than being honest with everybody about his mismanaged tournament then some of this might not have happened. When you say "I hope there are legal consequences for what you've done" all bets are off, I lose any respect I've had for you. I hope Take enjoyed the free casting and the numbers, I'll never deal with him and his organisation ever again.
Why no temp ban or warning for the first rly proffesional word ?!? TB and Genna sounds like 8year old kids. Grow up, all of u, such a shame for the E-Sport scene.
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On August 16 2013 21:53 Grettin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 21:47 MuMeise wrote:On August 16 2013 21:33 Grettin wrote:Every German in this thread backing up their e-sports hero. How i'm not surprised. This is the best fucking response i've seen in this thread for a while. Exactly my thoughts and thanks for saying it. On August 16 2013 21:20 unkkz wrote:
Lol this is hilarious. Genna's first blog post goes way too indepth to explain everything, it could have been summarized in 1/3 of the text. She fucked up not checking the financial aspect. TakeTV fucked up not providing that information. In the end everyone fucked up and i honestly don't see what the point of her first blog post even was.
Then this gets blown way out of proportion like a bunch of six year olds. Genna quit's over some silly drama(maybe just looking for an exscuse to get out anyway) Take overreacts to some silly skype logs and then TB goes of the rails as usual and starts throwing insults around.
This is hurting e-sports etc but really, this is just a bunch of people being very unprofessional and messing up in a lot of aspects. Honestly... not every german. I am american livin in germany and working for a german software company as a manager. To be completely clear on this: I am in no way backing up take for what he said... It's just a miserable childish practise to release private chats. It was a 'figure of speech' if you will. Obviously i'm not calling out every German. But people who are biased towards something, usually forget that there is the other side in the story as well.
i don't agree with you at all.
i like take for what he's doing but i also disagree with him when he does things wrong.
the thing is: private in germany means PRIVATE. you NEVER release private conversations without consent. this is a german thing and to remind you there are also many germans that don't like take.
TL;DR: german mentality and not german take love are the reason germans support take.
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Did anyone even bother to listen to TB's soundcloud? https://soundcloud.com/totalbiscuit/gennas-retirement
Genna's evidently had a lot of shit around her head for not just the past couple of weeks, and as TB starts off it's the ''straw that broke the camel's back''. Therefore, I don't think it was just the problems with the ATC that caused her to call it completely.
It's very unfortunate that things happen like this. I normally am very for releasing everything as publicly and honestly as possible, but I understand why TaKe wouldn't want this out there. You've got to respect his privacy. Dennis, thanks for the honest statement and I still think that saying you hope legal action can be taken against her is a bit too much, that was really not necessary. It seems like a weird thing to say when you're mad but that's of course personal. Honestly I think Genna just needed that last conversation in her final statement to call it quits, and yes that put you in a bad spot, but most people will be able to figure out that it was just frustration from your side. I hope Genna+TB/TaKe can try to fix things up if possible, maybe even without Genna because it might cause even more stress.
On that note I'm also very sorry to hear about Genna's conditions, and hope she takes some time off, relaxes a bit, and recovers. You were or actually still ARE a great personality and team owner, sad that it had to get this far.
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On August 16 2013 21:53 Elysi wrote:
I still love both Genna and Dennis and support them. What now?
Continue to like and support them. Like I do.
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I love you Genna and I love you Take! Your work for E-sports is sooooo appreciated that I can´t even describe it with words.
Keep fighting on!
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On August 16 2013 21:58 akaRobin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 13:00 TotalBiscuit wrote:On August 16 2013 12:58 Joedaddy wrote:
Pretty shitty move when you make what one presumed to be a private conversation public. Even if you didn't think it was a big deal, Dennis obviously did. Fuck Dennis. If he wasn't so concerned about saving face rather than being honest with everybody about his mismanaged tournament then some of this might not have happened. When you say "I hope there are legal consequences for what you've done" all bets are off, I lose any respect I've had for you. I hope Take enjoyed the free casting and the numbers, I'll never deal with him and his organisation ever again. Why no temp ban or warning for the first rly proffesional word ?!? TB and Genna sounds like 8year old kids. Grow up, all of u, such a shame for the E-Sport scene.
Why no temp ban for all the morons in these threads that bash either side without bothering to listen to both stories?
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On August 16 2013 22:07 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 21:58 akaRobin wrote:On August 16 2013 13:00 TotalBiscuit wrote:On August 16 2013 12:58 Joedaddy wrote:
Pretty shitty move when you make what one presumed to be a private conversation public. Even if you didn't think it was a big deal, Dennis obviously did. Fuck Dennis. If he wasn't so concerned about saving face rather than being honest with everybody about his mismanaged tournament then some of this might not have happened. When you say "I hope there are legal consequences for what you've done" all bets are off, I lose any respect I've had for you. I hope Take enjoyed the free casting and the numbers, I'll never deal with him and his organisation ever again. Why no temp ban or warning for the first rly proffesional word ?!? TB and Genna sounds like 8year old kids. Grow up, all of u, such a shame for the E-Sport scene. Why no temp ban for all the morons in these threads that bash either side without bothering to listen to both stories?
I did, trust me but i dont get why someone can use bad words and someone not? Can u tell me?
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ok, so both sides fuck up, make mad posts to try to save face, the whole stuff gets blown out of proportion and in the end you have the hordes of internet trolls climbing the bandwagon and shit just got real.
e-sports drama - the reason to surf TL/reddit since 20xx
On August 16 2013 21:48 kingy19s wrote:
At the end of the day I'll continue to support Axiom, and watch the great tournaments hosted by TakeTV.
this
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On August 16 2013 21:42 Khai wrote:
Firstly, if you organise an event as big as this and invite a team from another country how can you not take into account travel costs for them?
Not every, actually barely any tournament pays for travelling costs. It's just too much. The standard practice is that the team sponsors pay for travelling.
On August 16 2013 21:42 Khai wrote:
That's bad management, from what I understood team MVP had to raise some funds to attend, they're first and have a good chance so they decided to take the risk. 4th place gives $2000 which might not even cover travel. If that was the case he shouldn't have allowed Korean teams to compete.
MVP knew that there were no funds provided for travelling, but they still participated and tried to find a solution together with TaKe. Genna just didn't return mails. She doesn't even deny that. And not allowing Korean teams to compete? Why? Every team can decide for themselves if they have the resources to travel to Germany for offline finals.
On August 16 2013 21:42 Khai wrote:
Secondly, ok he offered to pay for travel? In the end was it enough? No, Axiom had to pull out. MVP tried to raise funds and takes a risk. Refer to first point, lack of foresight, TaKe has to take responsibility.
He offered helping them as soon as he heard they couldn't pay the travelling cost. But it was way too late, because Genna didn't return her mails. What lack of foresight? How do you manage such a situation if your contact doesn't respond?
On August 16 2013 21:42 Khai wrote:
Thirdly, he threatened to sue because someone revealed what he said? Why is it that it has to be a secret? Protecting sponsors is fine but rather than trying to fix stuff he goes aggressive, hardly kind
It was obviously something he said in the heat of the moment, because his privacy was violated. He tried to apologize for it in the post above. And even then, he has all reason to be mad when private business conversations get released to the public.
On August 16 2013 21:42 Khai wrote:
You can't blame me for losing my respect for that guy as an organiser, I knew of a TaKe with plenty of credibility hosting events but this is one too many scandal and I refer to Axiom (a small privately owned team) having to pull out this way + threat of legal action is just douchey in my books
I can blame you for being absolutely unreasonable. Axiom doesn't HAVE to pull out because of this. Genna just doesn't want to manage the team anymore because she made mistakes and can't handle accepting that. Instead she makes other people responsible who did close to nothing wrong.
The only thing TaKe did wrong, was forgetting to send an e-mail (the one he THOUGHT was sent at the time of CeBIT where he was very busy). Apparently every team was able to still get a grip on the situation without that information, except Axiom.
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EPT
