So here we are again. I didn't actually think it would be so soon as I rarely ever write blog posts, but here we go...
Over the past few years, I have been a number of things : An eSports fan, event makeup artist, talent manager, event organizer/producer, and most recently, team owner.
Nearly one year ago, Jae Won (CranK) and I founded Axiom. Our dream was to create a team that would have slow growth, yet recruit players who were passionate about enhancing their career as Starcraft 2 professionals. If we want to look at all that Axiom has accomplished, most would look to the player's results on Liquipedia, others would take note of the $50,000 in winnings our guys have managed to secure for themselves in under a year in addition to their stable salaries. I prefer to look at how they have grown as young men.
When I first met CranK, our ability to communicate with each other was a challenge. He definitely had a good grasp of English, (which is better than a lot of us could ever hope to achieve in Korean) but compared to now, it is night and day. Today he is capable of translating posts, interpreting for others and rarely has to reach for an English to Korean dictionary. He really worked hard to improve his skills so he could connect with his fans and that is just one of the things I am so proud of him for. Over the past twelve months, I have seen CranK's confidence grow in leaps and bounds. He hasn't just managed to captain and coach a successful team, but a stellar GSTL team in AxiomAcer. CranK and I have gone through challenging times together, but no matter what was going on personally or professionally, we took it on together. Jae Won will always be more to me than a pro player and I am grateful for the day that Reddit brought the two of us together.
Creating Axiom allowed me to meet so many wonderful people.
Miya brought so much joy to the Axiom house. His retirement has left a void that to this day has yet to be filled. I'm certain that a personality like Miya's can never be replaced.
Ryung, who will forever be my second son with his competitive arcade battles with my 10 year old, Orion. His cute regional accent always giving me so many smiles that brightened even the worst days. His accomplishments since joining Axiom are numerous and I couldn't be prouder of him.
Alicia disappeared from the scene for months after concluding that no team wanted to hire him, then asked to join Axiom even without a salary (we forced him into taking one) just so he could play the game he loves. This is the same guy who took 2nd place in several NA events last year and is still reaching amazing heights in his career in WCS NA and the WCS Global Finals. His passion is one that I am truly inspired by.
Heart seems to have it all. He trains hard, has a great sense of humor and is one of the few players I know who can manage to have a girlfriend and still remain competitive. He really is the whole package and even though his transition from WoL to HotS has been a bumpy one, he has shown perserverence and a strength I wish others could learn from.
It is with deep regret and a severe sadness that I am announcing my retirement from Axiom. Over the past twelve months, I have done my best to give everything I could to my team and to the community. As I've stated before in a past blog, I understand that sometimes my best is not going to be good enough.
Regardless of how hard one might try, there are always going to be situations where we as humans lack foresight. At this very moment I have a certain Dennis Gehlen (Take) wishing legal action upon me for a blog post I wrote yesterday explaining what happened behind closed doors regarding Axiom's involvement with ATC.
[6:50:52 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: hey genna [6:51:04 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: are you serious putting [6:51:07 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: my private chats with you [6:51:09 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: online [6:51:15 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: where i talk about acers [6:51:16 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: decisions? [6:51:23 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: which never have to be public? [6:51:25 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: this is crazy [6:51:33 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: actually i hope that by law [6:51:40 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: this is something you can get punnished for? [6:51:49 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: i guess if acer gonna read this they will get mad [6:51:54 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: that you posted it online [6:51:55 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: 10 times [6:52:02 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: more than u can ever imagine [6:52:14 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: cause there you let acer look very bad [6:52:19 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: wow [6:52:27 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: i didnt even see it when i saw ur post [6:52:37 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: i just read some but someone from my team has shown me this part [6:52:41 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: of our private conversation
This is what happens behind closed doors I guess. I understand that maybe some people in eSports are uncomfortable with my unorthodox methods of lifting the veil, but what exactly is there to hide? Aside from the fact that Dennis is paying in part for Team Liquid to come to the ATC finals, I don't see any particularly sensitive information. Sure, they asked the sponsor for more funds to help with travel, is that a bad thing? I made mention that Acer had a contract with TakeTV for a set amount to fund ATC, seems pretty standard to me... Anyway, I guess TIL that if people post chat logs even in an attempt to make you look good in a bad situation, it shouldn't be done and I should just be sued and/or arrested.
As with anything, there is a light and a dark side to eSports. Do not forget that there are players who are having their salaries cut (even though they are under contract), contracts being augmented without warning, organizations being bullied by others and forced into financial instability. Yet, there are the amazing success stories, the supportive fans and great people working towards making this community a better place. I'd ask you to evaluate which side of the coin you belong to and survey the impact it has on the scene around you.
I would like to thank everyone who has supported me during my time as a team owner, as well as those who supported me in all of my eSports endeavors. I'd like to extend some particular thanks to the following individuals (in no particular order). It is without a doubt in a community with so many wonderful people, I will forget to thank someone. Please know that I will continue to cherish all of you.
John Bain, Olivia Wong, Jae Won Choi, Joon Sik Yang, Min Hyuk Kim, Dong Won Kim, Seong Won Mun, Yun Sik Choi, Susie Kim, Cristian Baltoc, Scott Smith, Marcus Graham, Rod Breslau, Geneviève Forget, Manuel Schenkhuizen, Tricia Sugita, Cristian Tamaş, Ben Nichol, Sundance DiGiovanni, Ilyes Satouri, Sue Lee, Jason Lake, Kevin Knocke, JP McDaniel, Jana Otahalova, Marcus Eklöf, John Sargent, Alex Rodriguez, Brandon Qual, Sophie Jung, Jonathan Belke, Adam Contini, Greg Fields, Andrew Christoforou, Anna Prosser Robinson, Mark Ferraz, Tara Babcock, Adam Apicella, Joshua Gray, Brandi Plemmons, Alexander Garfield, Cassandra Ng Schenkhuizen, Michael O'Dell, Justin Ignacio, David Ting, Shawn Simon, Ryan Thompson, Geoff Robinson, Josh Sutherland, Shaun Clark, Jos De Kroon, Mike Lamond, Uwe Semtner, Kevin van der Kooi, Chris Loranger, Helena Kristiansson, Marc Olivier, Samayan Kay, & Michael Van Driel.
I am leaving Axiom in the capable hands of my partner in business, and in life, John "TotalBiscuit" Bain. I am more than confident that he will take the team to new heights. I hope to see many of you at future events where I will be cheering Axiom on from within the crowd. Thank you all for the adventure. GLHF
Good luck in the future Genna, you've done one hell of a job creating my favourite team that is Axiom. I love all of the players on Axiom, mad respect to all of them. Thank you for your contribution.
I don't understand what the problem is. :/ So because she posted a part of a private skype chat (which is done all the time btw) he wants legal action against her?
Rofl you can't get in trouble for posting skype chats online without an NDA of sorts. You aren't in the wrong at all, its hilarious that TaKe would even think of something like that.
(wrote this in the moment, after listening to TB's post and time gone by..) + Show Spoiler +
Sad that it had to go this way, I supported your way of doing it but doing it without asking the parties included is just bound to fuck some people over.
Posting yet another conversation just come off childish even if you have nothing to lose.
Edit: Tbh I'm disappointed that you stepped down because of this little drama. Stand STRONG instead!!
Genna you are just fucking incredible to be able to do everything you did while being depressed, I have first hand experience and I can't even imagine being able to do everything like that at different times, yet alone all at the same time!
Huh so does leaving boil down to "I screwed up so I guess its best to just leave". At least on the surface it doesn't seem like you really have to step down because 1 person is upset but what do I know. Also I don't really understand why you would continue to post chat from someone who is threating legal action, seems like you're just making it worse for yourself.
Even though her reasons for resigning as team owner don't carry enough weight in my personal opinion (I think eSports should be a lot more transparent, it's a win-win situation for everyone within the community and can only aid the professionalism of the industry itself), I kinda saw this coming. I feel sorry for her though, as I believe she had all the right intentions during the entire journey.
Of course I can only judge based on what I've read for the past couple of days, but I don't think Dennis 'Take' should threaten with exploring the legal possibilities of suing someone (especially not in an international affair). I do believe it's not smooth to publish any private conversations, but then again people should put things into perspective a bit more. Not only does any such threats (from Dennis) put the community unnecessarily on 'sharp' (in a negative way, lots of negativity will flow around for the next days), I actually believe he might not have such a strong case towards Mrs. Bain (I doubt he would speak for Acer by proclaiming such actions, and if he does then he really has no clue). If for any reason the contracts between contract-parties have non-disclosure clauses, obviously (legal) rules are broken (freedom of contract); however, it depends on who signed what contract whether someone is guilty of breaking such rules stated in the mutually agreed contract (a contract between Acer and Dennis 'Take' would have no legal force towards Mrs. Bain, therefore she needs to be party in a separate contract herself; it would obviously be the joke of the day if Take would threaten Mrs. Bain based on a contract where he's no legal party off). And even then, if eventually she would be to blame for something, one of the foremost reasons why e-sports related conflicts (almost) never get in front of a legal court is because the involved interests for the contracted parties don't weigh up against all the time, effort and costs any such scenario would take up.
I hope this is in no way the beginning of the end of Axiom, nor the beginning of hell breaking loose within the community/industry...
On August 16 2013 12:53 sumsaR wrote: I'm not sure I understand why you're retiring. Because of something stupid someone said in a private chat about something stupid?
I guess it should have been spelled out in the post. What just happened is just a tiny taste of the sheer amount of bullshit, backroom nonsense, immaturity and general awfulness that happens in this scene on a daily basis. This is the straw that broke the camels back after a years worth of stress that would have crushed a lesser person far sooner. Sorry, people aren't robots, emotions exist, stress is a real thing and there comes a point where its' better to step back for your own health. The audacity that anyone is questioning her decision to leave and pretending to know what's going on in her head, the sheer audacity.
Pretty shitty move when you make what one presumed to be a private conversation public. Even if you didn't think it was a big deal, Dennis obviously did.
Sorry to hear it Genna. You were a great manager for your team. Your commitment to openness about the insides of esports was part of what was special.
But posting/exposing any private emails or private discussions without consent of the other person is a big no-no. I doubt Dennis is going to take legal action against you, but it would make it hard for other organizers to speak frankly without worrying about potential consequences.
I hope Axiom continues to do well and that you can work your magic on travel arrangements and making the players happy while John/TB does the direct contact for tournament arrangements. You guys have something special here and I hope it keeps going strong.
P.S. You were in the right on the original ATC arrangements issue. They were trying to run a small budget tournament and cutting a lot of corners as a result. You had no commitment to lose money attending and made the right call pulling out of the offline finals and letting them sort it out.
Sad to see, you had a fresh take on things and were very good at managing your team. It's too bad to see you go. I always liked the way Axiom ran things so transparently.
On August 16 2013 12:58 Joedaddy wrote: Pretty shitty move when you make what one presumed to be a private conversation public. Even if you didn't think it was a big deal, Dennis obviously did.
Fuck Dennis. If he wasn't so concerned about saving face rather than being honest with everybody about his mismanaged tournament then some of this might not have happened. When you say "I hope there are legal consequences for what you've done" all bets are off, I lose any respect I've had for you. I hope Take enjoyed the free casting and the numbers, I'll never deal with him and his organisation ever again.
Edit: After reading TaKe's post on this whole situation, maybe it's actually a good thing that Genna is out. I didn't realize that Genna never answered anything; a one way conversation is never something anyone wants. I've experienced it from team managers before and can understand Dennis' frustration with all of this, especially in conjunction with posting their private conversations.
TaKe is a pretty awesome guy and I'm hoping ATC has a great finals :D!
Since you are in the US, posting on a US website, and are a US citizen, you are fine. I don't know the laws in Germany/the EU - they sometimes have wonky laws regarding such things. But they don't apply. Is Take angry? Sure, why not. Did he bother to do any due diligence and actually read it? Apparently not. Did Take do any due diligence to ensure that his staff made sure all the correct information went to the people it needed to? Apparently not.
I like Take. I do. But his reaction is not realistic from the cross cultural perspective, and I'm 99% sure that any legal or criminal complaint would fall flat on its face.
Acer mad? Maybe they could be. But with who? Genna? Shouldn't be. She's not contracted with them to run a tournament to generate positive exposure. Who is? Take. So they might be angry at Take - could this be why Take is mad? Maybe. I dunno.
Take can be mad. I don't think he should have any reason to be mad. If you want private communications, don't use skype to discuss business. (Aside from Microsoft reading it, think on this - Take (a "foreign person" to the United States) communicated with Genna (a U.S. citizen) which qualifies it for intercept by the NSA. (I won't mention that German intelligence services may monitor it themselves and report it to the NSA, that seems to be ending or at least under discussion.))
I don't think you should back down, Genna, but it's up to you if you want to continue to deal with this kind of thing.
On August 16 2013 12:58 Joedaddy wrote: Pretty shitty move when you make what one presumed to be a private conversation public. Even if you didn't think it was a big deal, Dennis obviously did.
His first response is to take it to the courts, he really needs to reconsider his response because so far the only result of this is the scene losing a great manager and me never watching any of his events again. There's enough content to skip HSC without missing out.
It's unfortunate that shitty behavior drove you to this, but at least it's raising awareness of that behavior. Axiom is my favorite team thanks to your leadership, Genna! Be proud of the work you've done.
I do not think any laws were broken, but it does seem very unprofessional to releases private chat logs. It is akin to talking business on the phone and then uploading the audio files of said communications.
I don't see why anyone who actually read your previous blog would be mad. You did a great job of framing the situation with all of the information so that it showed that no real person was at fault. Everyone made mistakes and it was implied that everyone would do better in the future. Then to only get that kind of a response? Makes it sound like they just didn't read the post.
On August 16 2013 12:58 Joedaddy wrote: Pretty shitty move when you make what one presumed to be a private conversation public. Even if you didn't think it was a big deal, Dennis obviously did.
Fuck Dennis. If he wasn't so concerned about saving face rather than being honest with everybody about his mismanaged tournament then some of this might not have happened. When you say "I hope there are legal consequences for what you've done" all bets are off, I lose any respect I've had for you. I hope Take enjoyed the free casting and the numbers, I'll never deal with him and his organisation ever again.
Oh that is so mature TB. I really agree witht you on most topics but you can't see that everyone made a mistake in this situation? You just trying to shitstorm him now... "classy". To post privat discussion openly in a forum is a big no-no even if you don't want to see it his way. The lawbullshit by take it obviously just angryman talking and not smart either. So everyone looses.
WhywhywhywhywhywhywhyWHY? Why did Take lose his shit over having a conversation posted that actually made him look like an amazing person? Does he WANT us to think he's an asshole?
Bleh, bad situation. Genna, you were an amazing manager and your public communications were a breath of fresh air in a world where substance is something you never get in an official statement. Though I'm more than a little sad to see you go, if it's what you really want, then it'd be stupid of me to yell at you for wanting to leave. Hell, I'd have done it months ago if I had to go through what you did. Always wondered how you managed to be so upbeat in the video interviews I saw you in.
On August 16 2013 12:58 Joedaddy wrote: Pretty shitty move when you make what one presumed to be a private conversation public. Even if you didn't think it was a big deal, Dennis obviously did.
Fuck Dennis. If he wasn't so concerned about saving face rather than being honest with everybody about his mismanaged tournament then some of this might not have happened. When you say "I hope there are legal consequences for what you've done" all bets are off, I lose any respect I've had for you. I hope Take enjoyed the free casting and the numbers, I'll never deal with him and his organisation ever again.
Oh that is so mature TB. I really agree witht you on most topics but you can't see that everyone made a mistake in this situation? You just trying to shitstorm him now... "classy". To post privat discussion openly in a forum is a big no-no even if you don't want to see it his way. The lawbullshit by take it obviously just angryman talking and not smart either. So everyone looses.
Classy... Someone get's upset because you shared a private chat that could land them in hot water with a sponsor. Your response is to share that private chat.
On August 16 2013 12:53 sumsaR wrote: I'm not sure I understand why you're retiring. Because of something stupid someone said in a private chat about something stupid?
I guess it should have been spelled out in the post. What just happened is just a tiny taste of the sheer amount of bullshit, backroom nonsense, immaturity and general awfulness that happens in this scene on a daily basis. This is the straw that broke the camels back after a years worth of stress that would have crushed a lesser person far sooner. Sorry, people aren't robots, emotions exist, stress is a real thing and there comes a point where its' better to step back for your own health. The audacity that anyone is questioning her decision to leave and pretending to know what's going on in her head, the sheer audacity.
They person you quoted didn't question if the decision was right or wrong. If someone else did, quote them regarding the last part of your post (or separate your post so people know you're no longer responding to the quote).
I don't blame anyone for getting out of an unnecessarily stressful situation. Best of luck to all parties going forward.
On August 16 2013 13:07 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote: WhywhywhywhywhywhywhyWHY? Why did Take lose his shit over having a conversation posted that actually made him look like an amazing person? Does he WANT us to think he's an asshole?
As far as I can tell yes, that or Acer's riding up his ass for the finals falling through and he's just flailing at everyone.
An utter shame. Genna is a fantastic rep for the SC2 community and her absence will be missed. I hope that this is but a mere "roadbump" along the way to bigger things and not the true end to her involvement with Axiom.
On August 16 2013 12:58 Joedaddy wrote: Pretty shitty move when you make what one presumed to be a private conversation public. Even if you didn't think it was a big deal, Dennis obviously did.
Fuck Dennis. If he wasn't so concerned about saving face rather than being honest with everybody about his mismanaged tournament then some of this might not have happened. When you say "I hope there are legal consequences for what you've done" all bets are off, I lose any respect I've had for you. I hope Take enjoyed the free casting and the numbers, I'll never deal with him and his organisation ever again.
logic overwhelming~ Dennis has done an awful lot in e-sports and has been an integral part in some of the most enjoyable SC2 tournaments to date. You taking a dump on him because a peer has a valid reason for being upset with your wife makes you look childish and immature, imo.
The best thing Axiom can do for the community at this point is accept the blame they earned, apologize, and move on. Neither of you are going to do e-sports any favors by creating a shit storm of drama in an effort to save face.
Oh that is so mature TB. I really agree witht you on most topics but you can't see that everyone made a mistake in this situation? You just trying to shitstorm him now... "classy". To post privat discussion openly in a forum is a big no-no even if you don't want to see it his way. The lawbullshit by take it obviously just angryman talking and not smart either. So everyone looses.
Other things that are unprofessional.
Threatening legal action on another team. Bullshiting the community and trying to save face.
You know why this scene is such a mess? Because it's riddled with incompetence and dishonesty. Gennas first duty was to the team, that means damage control, that means showing our side of the story and that means minimizing how slammed we got because the statement that was put out threw Axiom under the boss while saving face for ATC, regardless of poor communication and mismanagement that event suffered.
I have always believed shit gets done by being honest and forthright with people and I believe that massively overrides any expectation of "privacy" you might have. Your definition of maturity is irrelevant, it gets nothing done.
Best of luck, Genna. From what I could see you were a really good and comforting team owner and I feel really sad that it's come to this. Definately lost a shitton of reputation for Take. I and many others appreciate your honesty and open way of bringing everything. Thanks for all you've done Genna, and hopefully this won't have too big of an impact on the entire team because of all the bullshit that's happened towards you & Axiom. Ugh.
On August 16 2013 12:58 Joedaddy wrote: Pretty shitty move when you make what one presumed to be a private conversation public. Even if you didn't think it was a big deal, Dennis obviously did.
Fuck Dennis. If he wasn't so concerned about saving face rather than being honest with everybody about his mismanaged tournament then some of this might not have happened. When you say "I hope there are legal consequences for what you've done" all bets are off, I lose any respect I've had for you. I hope Take enjoyed the free casting and the numbers, I'll never deal with him and his organisation ever again.
logic overwhelming~ Dennis has done an awful lot in e-sports and has been an integral part in some of the most enjoyable SC2 tournaments to date. You taking a dump on him because a peer has a valid reason for being upset with your wife makes you look childish and immature, imo.
The best thing Axiom can do for the community at this point is accept the blame they earned, apologize, and move on. Neither of you are going to do e-sports any favors by creating a shit storm of drama in an effort to save face.
Take the high road bro~
Accept blame?
I wasn't aware they were the ones trying to take it to the courts, that would be Take.
On August 16 2013 12:58 Joedaddy wrote: Pretty shitty move when you make what one presumed to be a private conversation public. Even if you didn't think it was a big deal, Dennis obviously did.
Fuck Dennis. If he wasn't so concerned about saving face rather than being honest with everybody about his mismanaged tournament then some of this might not have happened. When you say "I hope there are legal consequences for what you've done" all bets are off, I lose any respect I've had for you. I hope Take enjoyed the free casting and the numbers, I'll never deal with him and his organisation ever again.
Oh that is so mature TB. I really agree witht you on most topics but you can't see that everyone made a mistake in this situation? You just trying to shitstorm him now... "classy". To post privat discussion openly in a forum is a big no-no even if you don't want to see it his way. The lawbullshit by take it obviously just angryman talking and not smart either. So everyone looses.
On August 16 2013 13:06 askmc70 wrote: what did take do?
Read Genna's previous blog for the backstory.
A TL;DR version is required... her blog is so long. Hopefully I'll remember to read it over the weekend. Then my opinion will change. But for now.. :S
So the TLDR version is this. Axiom committed to the ATC, but there were some communication issues regarding travel support. Axiom's budget couldn't support flying Axiom to the event due to WCS expenses, and the money provided by Acer wasn't enough to make up the difference. TaKe stepped in to try to find more money from Acer to help teams attend but wasn't able to make it work for Axiom.
Genna posted all of this in a blog, supported with emails and Skype logs between Axiom management and people involved with the ATC. TaKe, apparently, took offense at that and threatened legal action.
On August 16 2013 13:10 Bagi wrote: Feels like overreaction. The childish "fuck Take"-stuff isn't helping anyone either.
Yeah man we should totally just hug it out after he threatened my wife and the team with legal action.
Is this the first time you got threatened with legal action? My mom deals with that daily at her work with clients. Grow up. I got threatened with legal action and racism a couple days ago. You know what I did? I played it cool, stayed calm, and finished my transaction with the buyer.
That's a shame. This whole concept of a non-KeSPA team with such wonderful players, stable salaries, etc. really captivated me. I hope it's much the same under TB.
She posted something that was presumably never strictly confidential to explain to fans why she had to pull her team from Dennis' tournament that made everyone look like a decent person, and from which there was no indication of any true ill will.
TaKe responds by immediately threatening her with legal action, and then expects her to not post that online as well.
Seriously just a shitheadedly stupid move from this guy there.
Aww Genna :/ a sad day for esports, to lose such a great person and personality. Axiom will keep recieving my support of course, I'm sure TB will do just fine as the new manager and owner.
On August 16 2013 13:10 Bagi wrote: Feels like overreaction. The childish "fuck Take"-stuff isn't helping anyone either.
Yeah man we should totally just hug it out after he threatened my wife and the team with legal action.
Was there any legal basis? I'm sure there was as you are pretty reasonable, but still, she shouldnt let someone else destroy all her hardwork so easily.
On August 16 2013 13:10 Bagi wrote: Feels like overreaction. The childish "fuck Take"-stuff isn't helping anyone either.
Yeah man we should totally just hug it out after he threatened my wife and the team with legal action.
Is this the first time you got threatened with legal action? My mom deals with that daily at her work with clients. Grow up.
This pretty much sums it up, I mean he didn't even suggest he wanted to. The guy barely speaks english on his own and you are taking his broken wishful thinking (note he said "wish) that its punishable by law? Pretty scummy really on your part to blow it out of proportion BUT I mean this is of course if that chat log is the entire reason this thing blew up. But hey in the end its your team now and you guys can do what you want but I feel like atleast the TL community should be the wiser to see something being just blown out of proportion rather than actually being a huge issue
edit: You are also the most condescending person to ever grace the youtube limelight (in reference to your reply on page 5 to this post I am quoting)
On August 16 2013 13:10 Bagi wrote: Feels like overreaction. The childish "fuck Take"-stuff isn't helping anyone either.
Yeah man we should totally just hug it out after he threatened my wife and the team with legal action.
Is this the first time you got threatened with legal action? My mom deals with that daily at her work with clients. Grow up. I got threatened with legal action and racism a couple days ago. You know what I did? I played it cool, stayed calm, and finished my transaction with the buyer.
News just in, eSports is not the same as working at a supermarket.
On August 16 2013 13:10 chaos021 wrote: What the actual fuck? Why did this escalate at all? Can anyone please explain this?
cuz.... TB is being TB, as usual. That's my guess anyway.
Uh... no. Everything was nice and settled, and then Take threatened to sue Axiom for posting chat logs which made him look like a wonderful human being. Genna has undergone ordeals throughout the past year that generate the kind of stress most people couldn't endure. No doubt this last incident was the straw that broke the camel's back.
edit: It's actually kind of eerie how the notion that Take was directly threatening to sue Axiom managed to slip into my subconscious. Also interesting. I love a good opportunity for interesting introspection.
On August 16 2013 13:10 Bagi wrote: Feels like overreaction. The childish "fuck Take"-stuff isn't helping anyone either.
Yeah man we should totally just hug it out after he threatened my wife and the team with legal action.
Was there any legal basis? I'm sure there was as you are pretty reasonable, but still, she shouldnt let someone else destroy all her hardwork so easily.
Dude if you even knew a fraction of all of the stuff she's had to deal with, you wouldn't be saying that and I doubt anyone in this thread that wasn't just a troll would. She's had enough and I don't blame her.
On August 16 2013 13:10 Bagi wrote: Feels like overreaction. The childish "fuck Take"-stuff isn't helping anyone either.
Yeah man we should totally just hug it out after he threatened my wife and the team with legal action.
Is this the first time you got threatened with legal action? My mom deals with that daily at her work with clients. Grow up. I got threatened with legal action and racism a couple days ago. You know what I did? I played it cool, stayed calm, and finished my transaction with the buyer.
News just in, eSports is not the same as working at a supermarket.
i heard there are actual human people involved in both
seriously, this is all totally ridiculous, i feel like we are about to email EG's sponsors
TB's reaction to someone threatening to legally pursue his wife is absolutely justified. What would you do - NOT support the women you love and is married to? Come on...
Despite whatever may be the issue you have to realize that threatening with a lawsuit is a 100% sure way to make enemies. If you expect otherwise then you're not very bright.
I like transparency and I have no doubt that there is a lot of immature childish shit going on in e-sports. We can probably find a lot of other profiled people who share that opinion.
On August 16 2013 13:19 F4ble wrote: TB's reaction to someone threatening to legally pursue his wife is absolutely justified. What would you do - NOT support the women you love and is married to? Come on...
Despite whatever may be the issue you have to realize that threatening with a lawsuit is a 100% sure way to make enemies. If you expect otherwise then you're not very bright.
I like transparency and I have no doubt that there is a lot of immature childish shit going on in e-sports. We can probably find a lot of other profiled people who share that opinion.
Since when is wishing threatening?
edit to clarify: He even said he only wishes that it was punishable.
On August 16 2013 12:58 Joedaddy wrote: Pretty shitty move when you make what one presumed to be a private conversation public. Even if you didn't think it was a big deal, Dennis obviously did.
Fuck Dennis. If he wasn't so concerned about saving face rather than being honest with everybody about his mismanaged tournament then some of this might not have happened. When you say "I hope there are legal consequences for what you've done" all bets are off, I lose any respect I've had for you. I hope Take enjoyed the free casting and the numbers, I'll never deal with him and his organisation ever again.
I have to agree with that sentiment. Maybe that first blog post was not entirely thought through (directly quoting private conversations instead of paraphrasing or summarizing). It's a small mistake, Genna could have reached out to Acer directly if she felt the need to apologize after Take points out that some feathers are ruffled. I'm sure Axiom has a pretty decent relationship with Acer. Take is taking it over the top with the legal threats, I'm rather disgusted. Regardless, it sounds like if it wasn't this bullshit, the next one would have been the straw that broke the camel's back. All the best to Genna.
On August 16 2013 13:10 chaos021 wrote: What the actual fuck? Why did this escalate at all? Can anyone please explain this?
cuz.... TB is being TB, as usual. That's my guess anyway.
Uh... no. Everything was nice and settled, and then Take threatened to sue Axiom for posting chat logs which made him look like a wonderful human being. Genna has undergone ordeals throughout the past year that generate the kind of stress most people couldn't endure. No doubt this last incident was the straw that broke the camel's back.
Where is the exact threat? I see a wishfull-angry guy that even uses a "?" wish surely indicates that he has no real clue about the law situation. I would take it seriously if i get a paper in my mail.
On August 16 2013 13:09 TotalBiscuit wrote: You know why this scene is such a mess? Because it's riddled with incompetence and dishonesty. Gennas first duty was to the team, that means damage control, that means showing our side of the story and that means minimizing how slammed we got because the statement that was put out threw Axiom under the boss while saving face for ATC, regardless of poor communication and mismanagement that event suffered.
I agree, but I feel like she didn't need to post the chat logs to achieve this end, she could have told the story without giving out the logs, or at the very least asked Take if she could post them.
On August 16 2013 12:58 Joedaddy wrote: Pretty shitty move when you make what one presumed to be a private conversation public. Even if you didn't think it was a big deal, Dennis obviously did.
Fuck Dennis. If he wasn't so concerned about saving face rather than being honest with everybody about his mismanaged tournament then some of this might not have happened. When you say "I hope there are legal consequences for what you've done" all bets are off, I lose any respect I've had for you. I hope Take enjoyed the free casting and the numbers, I'll never deal with him and his organisation ever again.
I have to agree with that sentiment. Maybe that first blog post was not entirely thought through (directly quoting private conversations instead of paraphrasing or summarizing). It's a small mistake, Genna could have reached out to Acer directly if she felt the need to apologize after Take points out that some feathers are ruffled. I'm sure Axiom has a pretty decent relationship with Acer. Take is taking it over the top with the legal threats, I'm rather disgusted. Regardless, it sounds like if it wasn't this bullshit, the next one would have been the straw that broke the camel's back. All the best to Genna.
Genna had already talked about all of this with Acer, we maintain a good relationship with them and they were not in fact pissed off that we posted that stuff at all. Acer would have no doubt done exactly the same thing if they had come under fire. The first duty of a team manager is to protect their team, not protect 3rd parties. We learned that when we tried to do what was right for Demuslim and Sasquatch in WCS after MLGs admin fucked up and were crucified for that as well.
I also just wanna wish TBgood luck because he has a channel to run but now also a full team to manage. That must be very difficult but if anyone could do it, it's probably you. Good luck.
The information revealed in those chat logs does not constitute a strong case for defamation or violation of privacy law. Perhaps it would be serious if a contract was drawn up between both parties clearly forbidding public disclosure of any conversation between said parties. Otherwise any faint hint of legal action is just bullshit.
On August 16 2013 13:09 TotalBiscuit wrote: You know why this scene is such a mess? Because it's riddled with incompetence and dishonesty. Gennas first duty was to the team, that means damage control, that means showing our side of the story and that means minimizing how slammed we got because the statement that was put out threw Axiom under the boss while saving face for ATC, regardless of poor communication and mismanagement that event suffered.
I agree, but I feel like she didn't need to post the chat logs to achieve this end, she could have told the story without giving out the logs, or at the very least asked Take if she could post them.
Wait. If TaKe is the proverbial straw, since that seems to be the metaphor of choice, why would she talk to him first?
Wow, I thought you at least notified or moreover got permission from Dennis to post the private conversations you had with the taketv admins/crew. It's professional courtesy let alone etiquette not to air private behind the scenes matter to the public without the other parties agreement.
Looks like this backfired on Take pretty hard lol. Genna and TB don't need esports. They do JUST fine without it. Trying to go after someone so aggressively when you have more to lose than they do is fucking retarded.
On August 16 2013 13:19 F4ble wrote: TB's reaction to someone threatening to legally pursue his wife is absolutely justified. What would you do - NOT support the women you love and is married to? Come on...
Despite whatever may be the issue you have to realize that threatening with a lawsuit is a 100% sure way to make enemies. If you expect otherwise then you're not very bright.
I like transparency and I have no doubt that there is a lot of immature childish shit going on in e-sports. We can probably find a lot of other profiled people who share that opinion.
Since when is wishing threatening?
edit to clarify: He even said he only wishes that it was punishable.
If someone told you they wished you weren't alive, you wouldn't take that as aggression?
Being unprofessional and saying you're "lifting the veil of e-sports" still means you're unprofessional.
Also as if she WONT be still running things its a massive drama whore/ego trip and a way to punish Take a guy who has done an incredible amount off his own back for this community over a private disagreement.
The reason these things stay private is because they should be between the parties interested just because you can muster more fans and angry reddit pals doesn't make you more right and posting private conversations on a public blog is pretty disgusting.
Its pretty fun watching you get a good chunk of power in this community for you and now your wife so you can just abuse it at your whim to bandwagon against a guy who has been nothing but solid in this community.
Jenna I am not sure why you are stepping down for something this minimal, you are fantastic as the owner of Axiom but as an owner you will have people who want to throw hard balls at you and try to create inside drama that you don't want to have to deal with but have to. This is one of those things, did TaKe say this conversation is confidential and in no way can be discussed outside of the 2 of you? I really doubt he did as it would be in the transcript, seems he is over reacting and this is one of those things you try to smooth over in time.
As an owner you will deal with this type of stuff more often you have to not take things as personal and be tough, TB is a perfect example of this and I would think he would have a strong opinion on the situation which I am sure you both discussed before making this decision.
I feel like more is not being discussed because you can't be sued for a skype chat.
I wish you the best but I honestly see Axiom hitting some hard roads ahead as TB already has way to much on his plate.
On August 16 2013 12:58 Joedaddy wrote: Pretty shitty move when you make what one presumed to be a private conversation public. Even if you didn't think it was a big deal, Dennis obviously did.
Fuck Dennis. If he wasn't so concerned about saving face rather than being honest with everybody about his mismanaged tournament then some of this might not have happened. When you say "I hope there are legal consequences for what you've done" all bets are off, I lose any respect I've had for you. I hope Take enjoyed the free casting and the numbers, I'll never deal with him and his organisation ever again.
Oh that is so mature TB. I really agree witht you on most topics but you can't see that everyone made a mistake in this situation? You just trying to shitstorm him now... "classy". To post privat discussion openly in a forum is a big no-no even if you don't want to see it his way. The lawbullshit by take it obviously just angryman talking and not smart either. So everyone looses.
He's always causing shit storms.
On August 16 2013 13:07 LuckoftheIrish wrote:
On August 16 2013 13:06 askmc70 wrote: what did take do?
Read Genna's previous blog for the backstory.
A TL;DR version is required... her blog is so long. Hopefully I'll remember to read it over the weekend. Then my opinion will change. But for now.. :S
So the TLDR version is this. Axiom committed to the ATC, but there were some communication issues regarding travel support. Axiom's budget couldn't support flying Axiom to the event due to WCS expenses, and the money provided by Acer wasn't enough to make up the difference. TaKe stepped in to try to find more money from Acer to help teams attend but wasn't able to make it work for Axiom.
Genna posted all of this in a blog, supported with emails and Skype logs between Axiom management and people involved with the ATC. TaKe, apparently, took offense at that and threatened legal action.
Yeah before the legal action, I wouldn't have had an opinion. The legal action, otoh, just rubs me the wrong way. I feel like there's more than was included in the length blog post. Despite the posted logs, I imagine there's still more we aren't privy too.
On August 16 2013 12:58 Joedaddy wrote: Pretty shitty move when you make what one presumed to be a private conversation public. Even if you didn't think it was a big deal, Dennis obviously did.
Fuck Dennis. If he wasn't so concerned about saving face rather than being honest with everybody about his mismanaged tournament then some of this might not have happened. When you say "I hope there are legal consequences for what you've done" all bets are off, I lose any respect I've had for you. I hope Take enjoyed the free casting and the numbers, I'll never deal with him and his organisation ever again.
Oh boy. I think you and your girlfriend need a lesson in public communication. Even if you feel this way, You should exercise some restraint in how you convey your thoughts, not that this is anything new from you. Take has done nothing but awesome things for the community, and now you and your girlfriend are both blowing things out of proportion, as well as dragging other parties through the mud to try save face.
What is the point of this blog? I think the mature course of action would be to quietly pass off the responsibility and do as you please if you want out. Whether you were treated unfairly or not, this is not the professional and adult way to do things. It feels like a manifestation of ego - trying to get attention as you go. That's not to say the post isn't 500x more mature than what most people here would do in your position. It's not bad - it just seems unnecessary and tending more towards creating drama than keeping the best interests of everyone involved in mind.
I guess what i'm trying to say is that even though this blog isn't atrocious, it's not ideal.
On August 16 2013 12:58 Joedaddy wrote: Pretty shitty move when you make what one presumed to be a private conversation public. Even if you didn't think it was a big deal, Dennis obviously did.
Fuck Dennis. If he wasn't so concerned about saving face rather than being honest with everybody about his mismanaged tournament then some of this might not have happened. When you say "I hope there are legal consequences for what you've done" all bets are off, I lose any respect I've had for you. I hope Take enjoyed the free casting and the numbers, I'll never deal with him and his organisation ever again.
Oh boy. I think you and your girlfriend need a lesson in public communication. Even if you feel this way, You should exercise some restraint in how you convey your thoughts, not that this is anything new from you. Take has done nothing but awesome things for the community, and now you and your girlfriend are both blowing things out of proportion, as well as dragging other parties through the mud to try save face.
You have literally no clue what you're talking about. Please read the source material before commenting.
On August 16 2013 13:10 Bagi wrote: Feels like overreaction. The childish "fuck Take"-stuff isn't helping anyone either.
Yeah man we should totally just hug it out after he threatened my wife and the team with legal action.
Is this the first time you got threatened with legal action? My mom deals with that daily at her work with clients. Grow up. I got threatened with legal action and racism a couple days ago. You know what I did? I played it cool, stayed calm, and finished my transaction with the buyer.
News just in, eSports is not the same as working at a supermarket.
Apparently working in a real estate law firm is the same as working at a supermarket. Hmm.... Last I checked my common sense, real estate is much larger than e-sports.
On August 16 2013 13:10 chaos021 wrote: What the actual fuck? Why did this escalate at all? Can anyone please explain this?
cuz.... TB is being TB, as usual. That's my guess anyway.
Uh... no. Everything was nice and settled, and then Take threatened to sue Axiom for posting chat logs which made him look like a wonderful human being. Genna has undergone ordeals throughout the past year that generate the kind of stress most people couldn't endure. No doubt this last incident was the straw that broke the camel's back.
Things obviously were not settled if Genna's previous blog revealed information that got TaKe in trouble with either the main tournament sponsor (Acer) or other teams...
Thanks for everything you have done Genna. You'll still be around the scene I hope. As for you TB keep up the great work and lets not change too much about the Axiom most have come to love.
On August 16 2013 13:10 Bagi wrote: Feels like overreaction. The childish "fuck Take"-stuff isn't helping anyone either.
Yeah man we should totally just hug it out after he threatened my wife and the team with legal action.
Is this the first time you got threatened with legal action? My mom deals with that daily at her work with clients. Grow up. I got threatened with legal action and racism a couple days ago. You know what I did? I played it cool, stayed calm, and finished my transaction with the buyer.
News just in, eSports is not the same as working at a supermarket.
On August 16 2013 13:18 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:
On August 16 2013 13:13 Joedaddy wrote:
On August 16 2013 13:10 chaos021 wrote: What the actual fuck? Why did this escalate at all? Can anyone please explain this?
cuz.... TB is being TB, as usual. That's my guess anyway.
Uh... no. Everything was nice and settled, and then Take threatened to sue Axiom for posting chat logs which made him look like a wonderful human being. Genna has undergone ordeals throughout the past year that generate the kind of stress most people couldn't endure. No doubt this last incident was the straw that broke the camel's back.
Things obviously were not settled if Genna's previous blog revealed information that got TaKe in trouble with either the main tournament sponsor (Acer) or other teams...
Well, since Axiom and Acer seem to be on completely fine terms, that sounds like TaKe's issue.
On August 16 2013 13:25 BroOd wrote: I think I should open an esports PR firm. 90% of this scene needs PR coaching.
90% of this scene forget they exist in the real world and think that having x amount of "fans" gives you license do what whatever you want and react however you want.
I wonder when TB will start threatening to get his fans to beat people up this time ? but its ok because hes does so much for the community AM I RITE ?
I think it's fair to think Take came off as a dick in this situation
but he is completely fair in being this angry too. Look the whole blog post previous to this Genna only took very partial blame for this while posting many paragraphs and reasoning on why it is Take's teams fault
Not knowing the details of travel expenses is a HUGE oversight and creating a blog post, essentially, damage controlling it would be extremely angering if I was take
It's not all completely her fault but the fact that she mad e apost with private messages to damage control her huge mistake justifies Take's anger IMO
On August 16 2013 13:10 Bagi wrote: Feels like overreaction. The childish "fuck Take"-stuff isn't helping anyone either.
Yeah man we should totally just hug it out after he threatened my wife and the team with legal action.
Is this the first time you got threatened with legal action? My mom deals with that daily at her work with clients. Grow up. I got threatened with legal action and racism a couple days ago. You know what I did? I played it cool, stayed calm, and finished my transaction with the buyer.
News just in, eSports is not the same as working at a supermarket.
That was pretty rude
There's usually the hour or so of rude replies after TB gets mad about something. Its nature running its course.
On August 16 2013 13:24 iCpryde wrote: Jenna I am not sure why you are stepping down for something this minimal, you are fantastic as the owner of Axiom but as an owner you will have people who want to throw hard balls at you and try to create inside drama that you don't want to have to deal with but have to. This is one of those things, did TaKe say this conversation is confidential and in no way can be discussed outside of the 2 of you? I really doubt he did as it would be in the transcript, seems he is over reacting and this is one of those things you try to smooth over in time.
As an owner you will deal with this type of stuff more often you have to not take things as personal and be tough, TB is a perfect example of this and I would think he would have a strong opinion on the situation which I am sure you both discussed before making this decision.
I feel like more is not being discussed because you can't be sued for a skype chat.
I wish you the best but I honestly see Axiom hitting some hard roads ahead as TB already has way to much on his plate.
Genna has had to deal with quite a few challenges in her job as a team manager. Off the top of my head: broken bone that basically disabled her for a few months, getting thousands of dollars stolen by a travel agency and having to deal with the related budget issues, raising a kid(!) and managing the logistics of running several people around the world with tight deadlines for their arrival. A lot of these things were going on at the same time, by the way, and Genna was doing this solo until recently.
On August 16 2013 13:19 F4ble wrote: TB's reaction to someone threatening to legally pursue his wife is absolutely justified. What would you do - NOT support the women you love and is married to? Come on...
Despite whatever may be the issue you have to realize that threatening with a lawsuit is a 100% sure way to make enemies. If you expect otherwise then you're not very bright.
I like transparency and I have no doubt that there is a lot of immature childish shit going on in e-sports. We can probably find a lot of other profiled people who share that opinion.
Since when is wishing threatening?
edit to clarify: He even said he only wishes that it was punishable.
[6:51:33 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: actually i hope that by law [6:51:40 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: this is something you can get punnished for?
He is really saying that IF it is punishable by law that he WANTS to pursue that course of action. I think that constitutes a threat.
Whether he was justified or not is an entirely different matter - I'm not arguing that. My point is that making such a statement is a 100% certain way to make enemies. So for anyone bashing on TB for defending his wife can take a long walk off a short bridge - because you wouldn't have tolerated it either.
On August 16 2013 13:30 pbjsandwich wrote: I think it's fair to think Take came off as a dick in this situation
but he is completely fair in being this angry too. Look the whole blog post previous to this Genna only took very partial blame for this while posting many paragraphs and reasoning on why it is Take's teams fault
Not knowing the details of travel expenses is a HUGE oversight and creating a blog post, essentially, damage controlling it would be extremely angering if I was take
It's not all completely her fault but the fact that she mad e apost with private messages to damage control her huge mistake justifies Take's anger IMO
She definitely took only partial blame. That's true. She shouldn't take complete blame because it wasn't solely her fault.
On August 16 2013 13:10 chaos021 wrote: What the actual fuck? Why did this escalate at all? Can anyone please explain this?
cuz.... TB is being TB, as usual. That's my guess anyway.
None of this actually makes sense. Genna put up a blog basically showing how awesome TakeTV and Acer were trying to be about a bad situation. Then TakeTV's Dennis blows up about personal chat logs being posted that look like good publicity?!?? And he's actually hoping to pursue some sort of legal action? Am I understanding this shit correctly???
We're all up in arms over trivial bullshit. It's as if TakeTV wants to do some TL-style lynching themselves.
If I could get away with punching assholes in the throat right now, I'd already be on a flight to Germany.
On August 16 2013 13:10 Bagi wrote: Feels like overreaction. The childish "fuck Take"-stuff isn't helping anyone either.
Yeah man we should totally just hug it out after he threatened my wife and the team with legal action.
Is this the first time you got threatened with legal action? My mom deals with that daily at her work with clients. Grow up. I got threatened with legal action and racism a couple days ago. You know what I did? I played it cool, stayed calm, and finished my transaction with the buyer.
News just in, eSports is not the same as working at a supermarket.
That was pretty rude
And ignorant as well, considering geokilla works in a real estate law firm lol. But TB's in rant-mode x.x
Regardless of who was right or wrong (Genna or Take... surely neither of them was perfect), I think the Axiom players are going to be the ones who suffer the most. Hopefully TB will act in a professional manner with whatever other managers, owners, and players he needs to deal with.
On August 16 2013 13:24 ptbl wrote: Wow, I thought you at least notified or moreover got permission from Dennis to post the private conversations you had with the taketv admins/crew. It's professional courtesy let alone etiquette not to air private behind the scenes matter to the public without the other parties agreement.
Genna, I think you screwed up.
Doesn't matter at all. They cleared it with Acer and needed to defend their team's actions - the conversation made Take look good even!
The fact that he made these statements to Genna is ridiculous and the community will rightly jump on him for it.
On August 16 2013 13:10 chaos021 wrote: What the actual fuck? Why did this escalate at all? Can anyone please explain this?
cuz.... TB is being TB, as usual. That's my guess anyway.
None of this actually makes sense. Genna put up a blog basically showing how awesome TakeTV and Acer were trying to be about a bad situation. Then TakeTV's Dennis blows up about personal chat logs being posted that look like good publicity?!?? And he's actually hoping to pursue some sort of legal action? Am I understanding this shit correctly???
We're all up in arms over trivial bullshit. It's as if TakeTV wants to do some TL-style lynching themselves.
Agreed. Take needs to make his own blog and publicly apologize.
On August 16 2013 13:24 iCpryde wrote: Jenna I am not sure why you are stepping down for something this minimal, you are fantastic as the owner of Axiom but as an owner you will have people who want to throw hard balls at you and try to create inside drama that you don't want to have to deal with but have to. This is one of those things, did TaKe say this conversation is confidential and in no way can be discussed outside of the 2 of you? I really doubt he did as it would be in the transcript, seems he is over reacting and this is one of those things you try to smooth over in time.
As an owner you will deal with this type of stuff more often you have to not take things as personal and be tough, TB is a perfect example of this and I would think he would have a strong opinion on the situation which I am sure you both discussed before making this decision.
I feel like more is not being discussed because you can't be sued for a skype chat.
I wish you the best but I honestly see Axiom hitting some hard roads ahead as TB already has way to much on his plate.
Genna has had to deal with quite a few challenges in her job as a team manager. Off the top of my head: broken bone that basically disabled her for a few months, getting thousands of dollars stolen by a travel agency and having to deal with the related budget issues, raising a kid(!) and managing the logistics of running several people around the world with tight deadlines for their arrival. A lot of these things were going on at the same time, by the way, and Genna was doing this solo until recently.
Don't forget WCS happening, with the associated budget things there.
On August 16 2013 13:10 Bagi wrote: Feels like overreaction. The childish "fuck Take"-stuff isn't helping anyone either.
Yeah man we should totally just hug it out after he threatened my wife and the team with legal action.
Is this the first time you got threatened with legal action? My mom deals with that daily at her work with clients. Grow up. I got threatened with legal action and racism a couple days ago. You know what I did? I played it cool, stayed calm, and finished my transaction with the buyer.
News just in, eSports is not the same as working at a supermarket.
TB I just want to say you are very un-self aware in the awesomest way. Thank you.
On August 16 2013 13:30 pbjsandwich wrote: I think it's fair to think Take came off as a dick in this situation
but he is completely fair in being this angry too. Look the whole blog post previous to this Genna only took very partial blame for this while posting many paragraphs and reasoning on why it is Take's teams fault
Not knowing the details of travel expenses is a HUGE oversight and creating a blog post, essentially, damage controlling it would be extremely angering if I was take
It's not all completely her fault but the fact that she mad e apost with private messages to damage control her huge mistake justifies Take's anger IMO
She definitely took only partial blame. That's true. She shouldn't take complete blame because it wasn't solely her fault.
I do agree with that
but to not get complete confirmation for the travel? That is the most expensive part and if you haven't figured that out until a week before the event?
On August 16 2013 13:18 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:
On August 16 2013 13:13 Joedaddy wrote:
On August 16 2013 13:10 chaos021 wrote: What the actual fuck? Why did this escalate at all? Can anyone please explain this?
cuz.... TB is being TB, as usual. That's my guess anyway.
Uh... no. Everything was nice and settled, and then Take threatened to sue Axiom for posting chat logs which made him look like a wonderful human being. Genna has undergone ordeals throughout the past year that generate the kind of stress most people couldn't endure. No doubt this last incident was the straw that broke the camel's back.
Things obviously were not settled if Genna's previous blog revealed information that got TaKe in trouble with either the main tournament sponsor (Acer) or other teams...
Well, since Axiom and Acer seem to be on completely fine terms, that sounds like TaKe's issue.
On August 16 2013 13:33 skatblast wrote: Dont make private conversations public, it cant be that hard to understand, sorry and goodbye. Goodluck
She made the post to clear her teams name NO one except Take was hurt for whatever reason. He had no reason to be hurt. I can't believe you can instantly remove all personal barriers and say "I wish i could sue you" I can understand being slightly angry but c'mon man saying you wanna sue someone is serious business.
Take has the right to be angry. He is the "injured" party. It wasn't take who revealed the private conversations without the other parties consent nor notification.
On August 16 2013 13:10 Bagi wrote: Feels like overreaction. The childish "fuck Take"-stuff isn't helping anyone either.
Yeah man we should totally just hug it out after he threatened my wife and the team with legal action.
Is this the first time you got threatened with legal action? My mom deals with that daily at her work with clients. Grow up. I got threatened with legal action and racism a couple days ago. You know what I did? I played it cool, stayed calm, and finished my transaction with the buyer.
News just in, eSports is not the same as working at a supermarket.
That was pretty rude
Yeah well he needs to be rude because his feelings are hurt and he is feeling bad. It helps when you punch the smaller guy.
On August 16 2013 13:35 ptbl wrote: Take has the right to be angry. He is the "injured" party. It wasn't take who revealed the private conversations without the other parties consent nor notification.
Irrelevant. She stepped on toes (while painting him as a good person), he stepped over the line.
I do not think this is much of a surprise comming form the totalbiscuit-genna couple.They invested some money into sc2 but after failing to obtain big profits(and i am only quoting tb twitter right here) they sort of realize that esports is not exactly the thing that could bring in profits and they decide to slowly leave by throwing dirt at everyone that disagrees with them,This is happening in the context in which totalbiscuit is threatening to stop casting sc2 (like anyone forced him in the first place).
I find quite obnoxious that they are insulting Take who has provided the community with one of the best and most entertaining tournament s there is HSC which ran for 7 editions and made sc2 players look more human.Also take has been with sc2 from the very beggining.In terms of what the sc2 community is concerned I would much rateher prefer to have take and see the next HSCups than hear about totalbiscuit whinning and moaning all day long.
And this is another thing I disliked form the very first day about the totalbiscuit jenna-couple:the constant whinning and moaning.Everybody knows that in the esports industry you have to deal with unpleasant situations.LiquidNAzgul knows about this,alex garfield,sir scoots,day9 and countless other team owners and people involved know about this yet none of them moan and complain as much as totalbiscuit and genna.I mean literally you would think they are the only ones having issues and everyone else doesn't.Totalbiscuit is probably the only teamowner who constantly throws the 100k $ number on twitter to remind the community how much he invested.I never hear Nazgul say on twitter:"Man I invested probably a million dollars since bw in the sc scene you all should not say anything bad about me".Get over it.You are not more entitled than any other team owners who put money into the scen.If esports,and especially sc2 does not make you a profit then for gods sake move one.
I would not be surprised that in a couple of months after tb and genna decide to leave sc2 permanently they will write an essay on reddit simmilar to what destiny did when he switched to lol saying how bad sc2 is and how much the community sucks.On the long run tb will hurt the sc2 proscene more than they will help.
And the excuse about bashing is absolutely pathetic.All people in esports get ot deal with anonymus trolls.So what?Noone has quoted them as the reason for baciing off esports.And bashing Take out of all people is absolutely disgenuite.Oh and by the way Take has not taken any legal action.He might have just been upset and trolled on skype.
In conclusion:I understand that people can not make large amounts of money of sc2.But if you really wana quit the scen do not do it destiny style by throwing trash at everyhting.instead be more humble about it.Nobody blames you.
On August 16 2013 13:36 theking1 wrote: I do not think this is much of a surprise comming form the totalbiscuit-genna couple.They invested some money into sc2 but after failing to obtain big profits(and i am only quoting tb twitter right here) they sort of realize that esports is not exactly the thing that could bring in profits and they decide to slowly leave by throwing dirt at everyone that disagrees with them,This is happening in the context in which totalbiscuit is threatening to stop casting sc2 (like anyone forced him in the first place).
I find quite obnoxious that they are insulting Take who has provided the community with one of the best and most entertaining tournament s there is HSC which ran for 7 editions and made sc2 players look more human.Also take has been with sc2 from the very beggining.In terms of what the sc2 community is concerned I would much rateher prefer to have take and see the next HSCups than hear about totalbiscuit whinning and moaning all day long.
And this is another thing I disliked form the very first day about the totalbiscuit jenna-couple:the constant whinning and moaning.Everybody knows that in the esports industry you have to deal with unpleasant situations.LiquidNAzgul knows about this,alex garfield,sir scoots,day9 and countless other team owners and people involved know about this yet none of them moan and complain as much as totalbiscuit and genna.I mean literally you would think they are the only ones having issues and everyone else doesn't.Totalbiscuit is probably the only teamowner who constantly throws the 100k $ number on twitter to remind the community how much he invested.I never hear Nazgul say on twitter:"Man I invested probably a million dollars since bw in the sc scene you all should not say anything bad about me".Get over it.You are not more entitled than any other team owners who put money into the scen.If esports,and especially sc2 does not make you a profit then for gods sake move one.
I would not be surprised that in a couple of months after tb and genna decide to leave sc2 permanently they will write an essay on reddit simmilar to what destiny did when he switched to lol saying how bad sc2 is and how much the community sucks.On the long run tb will hurt the sc2 proscene more than they will help.
And the excuse about bashing is absolutely pathetic.All people in esports get ot deal with anonymus trolls.So what?Noone has quoted them as the reason for baciing off esports.And bashing Take out of all people is absolutely disgenuite
In conclusion:I understand that people can not make large amounts of money of sc2.But if you really wana quit the scen do not do it destiny style by throwing trash at everyhting.instead be more humble about it.Nobody blames you.
On August 16 2013 13:18 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:
On August 16 2013 13:13 Joedaddy wrote:
On August 16 2013 13:10 chaos021 wrote: What the actual fuck? Why did this escalate at all? Can anyone please explain this?
cuz.... TB is being TB, as usual. That's my guess anyway.
Uh... no. Everything was nice and settled, and then Take threatened to sue Axiom for posting chat logs which made him look like a wonderful human being. Genna has undergone ordeals throughout the past year that generate the kind of stress most people couldn't endure. No doubt this last incident was the straw that broke the camel's back.
Things obviously were not settled if Genna's previous blog revealed information that got TaKe in trouble with either the main tournament sponsor (Acer) or other teams...
Did you read what Take said in those logs? He looked like a wonderful person trying far harder than he needed to to rectify a mistake of his. Acer didn't look evil at all, either. They didn't scam anyone, didn't withhold money, none of that crap.
On August 16 2013 13:30 pbjsandwich wrote: I think it's fair to think Take came off as a dick in this situation
but he is completely fair in being this angry too. Look the whole blog post previous to this Genna only took very partial blame for this while posting many paragraphs and reasoning on why it is Take's teams fault
Not knowing the details of travel expenses is a HUGE oversight and creating a blog post, essentially, damage controlling it would be extremely angering if I was take
It's not all completely her fault but the fact that she mad e apost with private messages to damage control her huge mistake justifies Take's anger IMO
She definitely took only partial blame. That's true. She shouldn't take complete blame because it wasn't solely her fault.
I do agree with that
but to not get complete confirmation for the travel? That is the most expensive part and if you haven't figured that out until a week before the event?
What are you doing????
WCS timing matters here. The travel for that probably wouldn't have been figured into budgets created at the beginning of the year. So there are a lot of unplanned expenses that swallow the entire budget. And from the other side, what kind of tournament doesn't say: hey, our LAN final is at this time and this is what we're willing to do for travel arrangements? Literally every tournament provides some sort of travel accommodation as part of the package. Why wouldn't you be clear and up-front about what that was?
So it was bad communication and planning from both sides, and Genna acknowledged that.
You're abandoning your team. I sincerely hope that it's not due to this single incident. Rejoin Axiom and know that you'll need to take some heat in this business.
Whatever you do in the end, I wish you the best luck. And if your decision of leaving Axiom is final, I sincerely hope that TB can hire some competent people to fill the gap. The guy probably already works 2x more hours than myself and other "regular" people with most likely less actual vacation days. At some point, he'll be spreading thin I'm sure.
On August 16 2013 13:36 theking1 wrote: I do not think this is much of a surprise comming form the totalbiscuit-genna couple.They invested some money into sc2 but after failing to obtain big profits(and i am only quoting tb twitter right here) they sort of realize that esports is not exactly the thing that could bring in profits and they decide to slowly leave by throwing dirt at everyone that disagrees with them,This is happening in the context in which totalbiscuit is threatening to stop casting sc2 (like anyone forced him in the first place).
This entire paragraph. All of it is wrong. All of it.
On August 16 2013 13:18 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:
On August 16 2013 13:13 Joedaddy wrote:
On August 16 2013 13:10 chaos021 wrote: What the actual fuck? Why did this escalate at all? Can anyone please explain this?
cuz.... TB is being TB, as usual. That's my guess anyway.
Uh... no. Everything was nice and settled, and then Take threatened to sue Axiom for posting chat logs which made him look like a wonderful human being. Genna has undergone ordeals throughout the past year that generate the kind of stress most people couldn't endure. No doubt this last incident was the straw that broke the camel's back.
Things obviously were not settled if Genna's previous blog revealed information that got TaKe in trouble with either the main tournament sponsor (Acer) or other teams...
Well, since Axiom and Acer seem to be on completely fine terms, that sounds like TaKe's issue.
That's probably why he's upset...
Let me rephrase. If Acer isn't upset that Genna revealed the information (and she says they aren't), then TaKe would be in trouble regardless, and he's scapegoating Genna.
On August 16 2013 13:36 theking1 wrote: I do not think this is much of a surprise comming form the totalbiscuit-genna couple.They invested some money into sc2 but after failing to obtain big profits(and i am only quoting tb twitter right here) they sort of realize that esports is not exactly the thing that could bring in profits and they decide to slowly leave by throwing dirt at everyone that disagrees with them,This is happening in the context in which totalbiscuit is threatening to stop casting sc2 (like anyone forced him in the first place).
I find quite obnoxious that they are insulting Take who has provided the community with one of the best and most entertaining tournament s there is HSC which ran for 7 editions and made sc2 players look more human.Also take has been with sc2 from the very beggining.In terms of what the sc2 community is concerned I would much rateher prefer to have take and see the next HSCups than hear about totalbiscuit whinning and moaning all day long.
And this is another thing I disliked form the very first day about the totalbiscuit jenna-couple:the constant whinning and moaning.Everybody knows that in the esports industry you have to deal with unpleasant situations.LiquidNAzgul knows about this,alex garfield,sir scoots,day9 and countless other team owners and people involved know about this yet none of them moan and complain as much as totalbiscuit and genna.I mean literally you would think they are the only ones having issues and everyone else doesn't.Totalbiscuit is probably the only teamowner who constantly throws the 100k $ number on twitter to remind the community how much he invested.I never hear Nazgul say on twitter:"Man I invested probably a million dollars since bw in the sc scene you all should not say anything bad about me".Get over it.You are not more entitled than any other team owners who put money into the scen.If esports,and especially sc2 does not make you a profit then for gods sake move one.
I would not be surprised that in a couple of months after tb and genna decide to leave sc2 permanently they will write an essay on reddit simmilar to what destiny did when he switched to lol saying how bad sc2 is and how much the community sucks.On the long run tb will hurt the sc2 proscene more than they will help.
And the excuse about bashing is absolutely pathetic.All people in esports get ot deal with anonymus trolls.So what?Noone has quoted them as the reason for baciing off esports.And bashing Take out of all people is absolutely disgenuite
In conclusion:I understand that people can not make large amounts of money of sc2.But if you really wana quit the scen do not do it destiny style by throwing trash at everyhting.instead be more humble about it.Nobody blames you.
There's truth in what you say (the bold parts anyway) but it's not relevant to this situation in particular. You defend Take for past actions when he doesn't deserve a defense in this case. Yes, he does great things for the scene. So do TB and Genna. The problem is that one of them is in the wrong here, and it's Take.
Sounds a lot like somebody desperate to defend a party, regardless of the moral wrong in the situation.
On August 16 2013 13:36 theking1 wrote: I do not think this is much of a surprise comming form the totalbiscuit-genna couple.They invested some money into sc2 but after failing to obtain big profits(and i am only quoting tb twitter right here) they sort of realize that esports is not exactly the thing that could bring in profits and they decide to slowly leave by throwing dirt at everyone that disagrees with them,This is happening in the context in which totalbiscuit is threatening to stop casting sc2 (like anyone forced him in the first place).
I find quite obnoxious that they are insulting Take who has provided the community with one of the best and most entertaining tournament s there is HSC which ran for 7 editions and made sc2 players look more human.Also take has been with sc2 from the very beggining.In terms of what the sc2 community is concerned I would much rateher prefer to have take and see the next HSCups than hear about totalbiscuit whinning and moaning all day long.
And this is another thing I disliked form the very first day about the totalbiscuit jenna-couple:the constant whinning and moaning.Everybody knows that in the esports industry you have to deal with unpleasant situations.LiquidNAzgul knows about this,alex garfield,sir scoots,day9 and countless other team owners and people involved know about this yet none of them moan and complain as much as totalbiscuit and genna.I mean literally you would think they are the only ones having issues and everyone else doesn't.Totalbiscuit is probably the only teamowner who constantly throws the 100k $ number on twitter to remind the community how much he invested.I never hear Nazgul say on twitter:"Man I invested probably a million dollars since bw in the sc scene you all should not say anything bad about me".Get over it.You are not more entitled than any other team owners who put money into the scen.If esports,and especially sc2 does not make you a profit then for gods sake move one.
I would not be surprised that in a couple of months after tb and genna decide to leave sc2 permanently they will write an essay on reddit simmilar to what destiny did when he switched to lol saying how bad sc2 is and how much the community sucks.On the long run tb will hurt the sc2 proscene more than they will help.
And the excuse about bashing is absolutely pathetic.All people in esports get ot deal with anonymus trolls.So what?Noone has quoted them as the reason for baciing off esports.And bashing Take out of all people is absolutely disgenuite
In conclusion:I understand that people can not make large amounts of money of sc2.But if you really wana quit the scen do not do it destiny style by throwing trash at everyhting.instead be more humble about it.Nobody blames you.
This is a shitpost if i've ever seen one.
this guy made like 10 post in the WCS am final LR to bash polt's english...
On August 16 2013 13:36 theking1 wrote: I do not think this is much of a surprise comming form the totalbiscuit-genna couple.They invested some money into sc2 but after failing to obtain big profits(and i am only quoting tb twitter right here) they sort of realize that esports is not exactly the thing that could bring in profits and they decide to slowly leave by throwing dirt at everyone that disagrees with them,This is happening in the context in which totalbiscuit is threatening to stop casting sc2 (like anyone forced him in the first place).
I find quite obnoxious that they are insulting Take who has provided the community with one of the best and most entertaining tournament s there is HSC which ran for 7 editions and made sc2 players look more human.Also take has been with sc2 from the very beggining.In terms of what the sc2 community is concerned I would much rateher prefer to have take and see the next HSCups than hear about totalbiscuit whinning and moaning all day long.
And this is another thing I disliked form the very first day about the totalbiscuit jenna-couple:the constant whinning and moaning.Everybody knows that in the esports industry you have to deal with unpleasant situations.LiquidNAzgul knows about this,alex garfield,sir scoots,day9 and countless other team owners and people involved know about this yet none of them moan and complain as much as totalbiscuit and genna.I mean literally you would think they are the only ones having issues and everyone else doesn't.Totalbiscuit is probably the only teamowner who constantly throws the 100k $ number on twitter to remind the community how much he invested.I never hear Nazgul say on twitter:"Man I invested probably a million dollars since bw in the sc scene you all should not say anything bad about me".Get over it.You are not more entitled than any other team owners who put money into the scen.If esports,and especially sc2 does not make you a profit then for gods sake move one.
I would not be surprised that in a couple of months after tb and genna decide to leave sc2 permanently they will write an essay on reddit simmilar to what destiny did when he switched to lol saying how bad sc2 is and how much the community sucks.On the long run tb will hurt the sc2 proscene more than they will help.
And the excuse about bashing is absolutely pathetic.All people in esports get ot deal with anonymus trolls.So what?Noone has quoted them as the reason for baciing off esports.And bashing Take out of all people is absolutely disgenuite.Oh and by the way Take has not taken any legal action.He might have just been upset and trolled on skype.
In conclusion:I understand that people can not make large amounts of money of sc2.But if you really wana quit the scen do not do it destiny style by throwing trash at everyhting.instead be more humble about it.Nobody blames you.
On August 16 2013 13:33 skatblast wrote: Dont make private conversations public, it cant be that hard to understand, sorry and goodbye. Goodluck
She made the post to clear her teams name NO one except Take was hurt for whatever reason. He had no reason to be hurt.
he most definitely does....
it's a private conversation. Imagine if you had a private conversation open for the public...
it's really that simple
I'm always hoping dem ladies will hear me talking to myself and realize how awesome I am.
--still hasn't happened (the second part).
I don't know what to think about this situation, other than that I hope the players are fine and that no one goes crazy trying to run Axiom, and that it stays around.
On August 16 2013 13:36 theking1 wrote: I do not think this is much of a surprise comming form the totalbiscuit-genna couple.They invested some money into sc2 but after failing to obtain big profits(and i am only quoting tb twitter right here) they sort of realize that esports is not exactly the thing that could bring in profits and they decide to slowly leave by throwing dirt at everyone that disagrees with them,This is happening in the context in which totalbiscuit is threatening to stop casting sc2 (like anyone forced him in the first place).
This entire paragraph. All of it is wrong. All of it.
why?go look on totalbiscutis twitter now.See how many posts he has bashing the sc2 community,the sc2 scene and whining how ihe is gonna leave cause he ain't making money.Its the truth.The fact that now they are trying to find pretexts by bashing take(a guy here form day 0) because of a skype conversation(lol) is preety childish.
@dcemuser
a conversation on skype is not a lawsuit.Take might have had a bad moment and decided to vent.We dunno if he was even serious take might have been just upset and trolling.beside it is childish to jump on conclusions without hearing his side of the story
Sounds a lot like somebody desperate to defend a party, regardless of the moral wrong in the situation.
Regardless of most of his post one bit of it is bang on the money.
TB's sense of entitlement is unrivalled in the scene, possibly stems from ego or surrounding himself with yes men but its there present and never goes away.
On August 16 2013 13:38 Djzapz wrote: You're abandoning your team. I sincerely hope that it's not due to this single incident. Rejoin Axiom and know that you'll need to take some heat in this business.
Whatever you do in the end, I wish you the best luck. And if your decision of leaving Axiom is final, I sincerely hope that TB can hire some competent people to fill the gap. The guy probably already works 2x more hours than myself and other "regular" people with most likely less actual vacation days. At some point, he'll be spreading thin I'm sure.
I worked for GosuGamers for a couple months as a journalist - realistically I just posted roster changes and tournament results and stuff. I covered a few slightly controversial Dota 1/2 happenings, but I didn't really break much news or anything. And the amount of shit I got was a bit silly, even including death threats. If that's what I got in six months of "Tournament XYZ Announced; Features Teams A, B, C" then I'd expect everyone involved at the team or management level to get rivers and buckets of the most vile abuse possible. So it's not just this one thing. It's that ultimately being involved in eSports as anything other than a fan really isn't worth the hassle.
On August 16 2013 13:38 Djzapz wrote: You're abandoning your team. I sincerely hope that it's not due to this single incident. Rejoin Axiom and know that you'll need to take some heat in this business.
Whatever you do in the end, I wish you the best luck. And if your decision of leaving Axiom is final, I sincerely hope that TB can hire some competent people to fill the gap. The guy probably already works 2x more hours than myself and other "regular" people with most likely less actual vacation days. At some point, he'll be spreading thin I'm sure.
I agree. I hope TB has some support to help him manage the team, and if not...the good news is that TB is a beast and I'm sure he'll do everything in his power to give them what they need.
Either way, good lucky to her and TB in their future endeavors, its unfortunate for the scene that we had to lose such a dedicated member of the community.
it's ridiculous that you still don't understand why posting these logs is an absolute no go. the first thing that came to my mind reading the axiomhate blog was that i can't believe a team owner is really just posting private message logs on TL, LOL
On August 16 2013 13:36 theking1 wrote: I do not think this is much of a surprise comming form the totalbiscuit-genna couple.They invested some money into sc2 but after failing to obtain big profits(and i am only quoting tb twitter right here) they sort of realize that esports is not exactly the thing that could bring in profits and they decide to slowly leave by throwing dirt at everyone that disagrees with them,This is happening in the context in which totalbiscuit is threatening to stop casting sc2 (like anyone forced him in the first place).
This entire paragraph. All of it is wrong. All of it.
why?go look on totalbiscutis twitter now.See how many posts he has bashing the sc2 community,the sc2 scene and whining how ihe is gonna leave cause he ain't making money.Its the truth.The fact that now they are trying to find pretexts by bashing take(a guy here form day 0) because of a skype conversation(lol) is preety childish.
Jesus chris if you're going to be pointlessly wrong could you at least put some efforts into punctuation, capitalization or spelling.
On August 16 2013 13:36 theking1 wrote: I do not think this is much of a surprise comming form the totalbiscuit-genna couple.They invested some money into sc2 but after failing to obtain big profits(and i am only quoting tb twitter right here) they sort of realize that esports is not exactly the thing that could bring in profits and they decide to slowly leave by throwing dirt at everyone that disagrees with them,This is happening in the context in which totalbiscuit is threatening to stop casting sc2 (like anyone forced him in the first place).
I find quite obnoxious that they are insulting Take who has provided the community with one of the best and most entertaining tournament s there is HSC which ran for 7 editions and made sc2 players look more human.Also take has been with sc2 from the very beggining.In terms of what the sc2 community is concerned I would much rateher prefer to have take and see the next HSCups than hear about totalbiscuit whinning and moaning all day long.
And this is another thing I disliked form the very first day about the totalbiscuit jenna-couple:the constant whinning and moaning.Everybody knows that in the esports industry you have to deal with unpleasant situations.LiquidNAzgul knows about this,alex garfield,sir scoots,day9 and countless other team owners and people involved know about this yet none of them moan and complain as much as totalbiscuit and genna.I mean literally you would think they are the only ones having issues and everyone else doesn't.Totalbiscuit is probably the only teamowner who constantly throws the 100k $ number on twitter to remind the community how much he invested.I never hear Nazgul say on twitter:"Man I invested probably a million dollars since bw in the sc scene you all should not say anything bad about me".Get over it.You are not more entitled than any other team owners who put money into the scen.If esports,and especially sc2 does not make you a profit then for gods sake move one.
I would not be surprised that in a couple of months after tb and genna decide to leave sc2 permanently they will write an essay on reddit simmilar to what destiny did when he switched to lol saying how bad sc2 is and how much the community sucks.On the long run tb will hurt the sc2 proscene more than they will help.
And the excuse about bashing is absolutely pathetic.All people in esports get ot deal with anonymus trolls.So what?Noone has quoted them as the reason for baciing off esports.And bashing Take out of all people is absolutely disgenuite.Oh and by the way Take has not taken any legal action.He might have just been upset and trolled on skype.
In conclusion:I understand that people can not make large amounts of money of sc2.But if you really wana quit the scen do not do it destiny style by throwing trash at everyhting.instead be more humble about it.Nobody blames you.
On August 16 2013 13:10 Bagi wrote: Feels like overreaction. The childish "fuck Take"-stuff isn't helping anyone either.
Yeah man we should totally just hug it out after he threatened my wife and the team with legal action.
Is this the first time you got threatened with legal action? My mom deals with that daily at her work with clients. Grow up. I got threatened with legal action and racism a couple days ago. You know what I did? I played it cool, stayed calm, and finished my transaction with the buyer.
News just in, eSports is not the same as working at a supermarket.
"My name's TotalBiscuit and anyone who has an opinion different than mine must be a pimply teenager. I'm revered in eSports so my knowledge transcends all barriers of industry and practice."
News just in, eSports is business amateur hour and your opinions based on eSports experiences are no more qualified than the opinions of anyone else with other types of business experience.
On August 16 2013 13:30 pbjsandwich wrote: I think it's fair to think Take came off as a dick in this situation
but he is completely fair in being this angry too. Look the whole blog post previous to this Genna only took very partial blame for this while posting many paragraphs and reasoning on why it is Take's teams fault
Not knowing the details of travel expenses is a HUGE oversight and creating a blog post, essentially, damage controlling it would be extremely angering if I was take
It's not all completely her fault but the fact that she mad e apost with private messages to damage control her huge mistake justifies Take's anger IMO
She definitely took only partial blame. That's true. She shouldn't take complete blame because it wasn't solely her fault.
I do agree with that
but to not get complete confirmation for the travel? That is the most expensive part and if you haven't figured that out until a week before the event?
What are you doing????
WCS timing matters here. The travel for that probably wouldn't have been figured into budgets created at the beginning of the year. So there are a lot of unplanned expenses that swallow the entire budget. And from the other side, what kind of tournament doesn't say: hey, our LAN final is at this time and this is what we're willing to do for travel arrangements? Literally every tournament provides some sort of travel accommodation as part of the package. Why wouldn't you be clear and up-front about what that was?
So it was bad communication and planning from both sides, and Genna acknowledged that.
yes she acknowledged that
but a majority of her previous blog post blames the Take team...
like I said before, that's a ridiculous oversight for a team
On August 16 2013 13:36 theking1 wrote: I do not think this is much of a surprise comming form the totalbiscuit-genna couple.They invested some money into sc2 but after failing to obtain big profits(and i am only quoting tb twitter right here) they sort of realize that esports is not exactly the thing that could bring in profits and they decide to slowly leave by throwing dirt at everyone that disagrees with them,This is happening in the context in which totalbiscuit is threatening to stop casting sc2 (like anyone forced him in the first place).
This entire paragraph. All of it is wrong. All of it.
why?go look on totalbiscutis twitter now.See how many posts he has bashing the sc2 community,the sc2 scene and whining how ihe is gonna leave cause he ain't making money.Its the truth.The fact that now they are trying to find pretexts by bashing take(a guy here form day 0) because of a skype conversation(lol) is preety childish.
LOL he's never whined that he hasn't made any money. He's always said that he never intended on making any money off SC2, and that it's a passion project of his. Get your shit right.
I do not think this is much of a surprise comming form the totalbiscuit-genna couple.They invested some money into sc2 but after failing to obtain big profits(and i am only quoting tb twitter right here) they sort of realize that esports is not exactly the thing that could bring in profits and they decide to slowly leave by throwing dirt at everyone that disagrees with them,This is happening in the context in which totalbiscuit is threatening to stop casting sc2 (like anyone forced him in the first place).
I find quite obnoxious that they are insulting Take who has provided the community with one of the best and most entertaining tournament s there is HSC which ran for 7 editions and made sc2 players look more human.Also take has been with sc2 from the very beggining.In terms of what the sc2 community is concerned I would much rateher prefer to have take and see the next HSCups than hear about totalbiscuit whinning and moaning all day long.
And this is another thing I disliked form the very first day about the totalbiscuit jenna-couple:the constant whinning and moaning.Everybody knows that in the esports industry you have to deal with unpleasant situations.LiquidNAzgul knows about this,alex garfield,sir scoots,day9 and countless other team owners and people involved know about this yet none of them moan and complain as much as totalbiscuit and genna.I mean literally you would think they are the only ones having issues and everyone else doesn't.Totalbiscuit is probably the only teamowner who constantly throws the 100k $ number on twitter to remind the community how much he invested.I never hear Nazgul say on twitter:"Man I invested probably a million dollars since bw in the sc scene you all should not say anything bad about me".Get over it.You are not more entitled than any other team owners who put money into the scen.If esports,and especially sc2 does not make you a profit then for gods sake move one.
I would not be surprised that in a couple of months after tb and genna decide to leave sc2 permanently they will write an essay on reddit simmilar to what destiny did when he switched to lol saying how bad sc2 is and how much the community sucks.On the long run tb will hurt the sc2 proscene more than they will help.
And the excuse about bashing is absolutely pathetic.All people in esports get ot deal with anonymus trolls.So what?Noone has quoted them as the reason for baciing off esports.And bashing Take out of all people is absolutely disgenuite
In conclusion:I understand that people can not make large amounts of money of sc2.But if you really wana quit the scen do not do it destiny style by throwing trash at everyhting.instead be more humble about it.Nobody blames you.
You are so full of shit that I can smell you halfway around the world. All they're trying to do is make the SC2 scene about good players instead of just names and brands. If you just want to run on about random bullshit, go find a bridge and stay under it.
On August 16 2013 13:33 skatblast wrote: Dont make private conversations public, it cant be that hard to understand, sorry and goodbye. Goodluck
She made the post to clear her teams name NO one except Take was hurt for whatever reason. He had no reason to be hurt.
he most definitely does....
it's a private conversation. Imagine if you had a private conversation open for the public...
it's really that simple
A private conversation?? Why is everyone throwing this shit around like that matters? It's not as if they're signing non-disclosure agreements about any of this. They're talking about business over the internet and have no obligation to keep their mouths shut. Yea, it could be viewed as airing out some laundry. Even if in my opinion, said "laundry" was not dirty, they have their own right to do with it as they will so long as they haven't damaged other involved parties (as far as I know). As far as I can see, no one has been damaged. If he wants to be butthurt about it, that's his business. However, it being a private conversation means not a damn thing.
On August 16 2013 13:38 Djzapz wrote: You're abandoning your team. I sincerely hope that it's not due to this single incident. Rejoin Axiom and know that you'll need to take some heat in this business.
Whatever you do in the end, I wish you the best luck. And if your decision of leaving Axiom is final, I sincerely hope that TB can hire some competent people to fill the gap. The guy probably already works 2x more hours than myself and other "regular" people with most likely less actual vacation days. At some point, he'll be spreading thin I'm sure.
I worked for GosuGamers for a couple months as a journalist - realistically I just posted roster changes and tournament results and stuff. I covered a few slightly controversial Dota 1/2 happenings, but I didn't really break much news or anything. And the amount of shit I got was a bit silly, even including death threats. If that's what I got in six months of "Tournament XYZ Announced; Features Teams A, B, C" then I'd expect everyone involved at the team or management level to get rivers and buckets of the most vile abuse possible. So it's not just this one thing. It's that ultimately being involved in eSports as anything other than a fan really isn't worth the hassle.
Would you mind elaborating in PM? Cuz now I'm curious haha.
On August 16 2013 13:10 Bagi wrote: Feels like overreaction. The childish "fuck Take"-stuff isn't helping anyone either.
Yeah man we should totally just hug it out after he threatened my wife and the team with legal action.
Is this the first time you got threatened with legal action? My mom deals with that daily at her work with clients. Grow up. I got threatened with legal action and racism a couple days ago. You know what I did? I played it cool, stayed calm, and finished my transaction with the buyer.
News just in, eSports is not the same as working at a supermarket.
That was pretty rude
And ignorant as well, considering geokilla works in a real estate law firm lol. But TB's in rant-mode x.x
I just want to clarify. I myself don't work in a real estate law firm. Wish I did. I'm too young for that... still studying in university, finding my way. HOWEVER, I hear stories about my mom's clients, builders, etc., and she gets threatened with legal action a lot. Either towards her, or the firm.
And I've worked in a customer service position where I got threatened with legal action at least once each week. I worked full time hours too. If we both acted like TB and how he does on the Internet, we'd be out of a job pretty quickly.
On August 16 2013 13:35 ptbl wrote: Take has the right to be angry. He is the "injured" party. It wasn't take who revealed the private conversations without the other parties consent nor notification.
Irrelevant. She stepped on toes (while painting him as a good person), he stepped over the line.
uhh, Genna exposed the fact that Liquid needed monetary support to send players to the ATC final. Take told Genna the information in confidence, but she revealed it without proper notification nor consent.
So, what do you mean it made Take look good. Airing dirty laundry is never good.
I do not think this is much of a surprise comming form the totalbiscuit-genna couple.They invested some money into sc2 but after failing to obtain big profits(and i am only quoting tb twitter right here) they sort of realize that esports is not exactly the thing that could bring in profits and they decide to slowly leave by throwing dirt at everyone that disagrees with them,This is happening in the context in which totalbiscuit is threatening to stop casting sc2 (like anyone forced him in the first place).
I find quite obnoxious that they are insulting Take who has provided the community with one of the best and most entertaining tournament s there is HSC which ran for 7 editions and made sc2 players look more human.Also take has been with sc2 from the very beggining.In terms of what the sc2 community is concerned I would much rateher prefer to have take and see the next HSCups than hear about totalbiscuit whinning and moaning all day long.
And this is another thing I disliked form the very first day about the totalbiscuit jenna-couple:the constant whinning and moaning.Everybody knows that in the esports industry you have to deal with unpleasant situations.LiquidNAzgul knows about this,alex garfield,sir scoots,day9 and countless other team owners and people involved know about this yet none of them moan and complain as much as totalbiscuit and genna.I mean literally you would think they are the only ones having issues and everyone else doesn't.Totalbiscuit is probably the only teamowner who constantly throws the 100k $ number on twitter to remind the community how much he invested.I never hear Nazgul say on twitter:"Man I invested probably a million dollars since bw in the sc scene you all should not say anything bad about me".Get over it.You are not more entitled than any other team owners who put money into the scen.If esports,and especially sc2 does not make you a profit then for gods sake move one.
I would not be surprised that in a couple of months after tb and genna decide to leave sc2 permanently they will write an essay on reddit simmilar to what destiny did when he switched to lol saying how bad sc2 is and how much the community sucks.On the long run tb will hurt the sc2 proscene more than they will help.
And the excuse about bashing is absolutely pathetic.All people in esports get ot deal with anonymus trolls.So what?Noone has quoted them as the reason for baciing off esports.And bashing Take out of all people is absolutely disgenuite
In conclusion:I understand that people can not make large amounts of money of sc2.But if you really wana quit the scen do not do it destiny style by throwing trash at everyhting.instead be more humble about it.Nobody blames you.
You are so full of shit that I can smell you halfway around the world. All they're trying to do is make the SC2 scene about good players instead of just names and brands. If you just want to run on about random bullshit, go find a bridge and stay under it.
On August 16 2013 13:33 skatblast wrote: Dont make private conversations public, it cant be that hard to understand, sorry and goodbye. Goodluck
She made the post to clear her teams name NO one except Take was hurt for whatever reason. He had no reason to be hurt.
he most definitely does....
it's a private conversation. Imagine if you had a private conversation open for the public...
it's really that simple
A private conversation?? Why is everyone throwing this shit around like that matters? It's not as if they're signing non-disclosure agreements about any of this. They're talking about business over the internet and have no obligation to keep their mouths shut. Yea, it could be viewed as airing out some laundry. Even if in my opinion, said "laundry" was not dirty, they have their own right to do with it as they will so long as they haven't damaged other involved parties (as far as I know). As far as I can see, no one has been damaged. If he wants to be butthurt about it, that's his business. However, it being a private conversation means not a damn thing.
i'm sorry you don't understand how a private conversation can be a sensitive issue....
Best of luck to the Bains. I don't even understand what Take feels is so threatening that he said in the previous blog. Seemed like two completely reasonable people talking to me :-/
Also, not gonna lie, part of why I like TB is, even though he gets crazy shit for it, he's not afraid to essentially tell netizens to "[stfu]" Yea it's not the best PR, but it's so nice to see it coming from someone who people will actually listen to. In short, keep doin' what your doin' because you know you're already doin' it right.
On August 16 2013 13:10 Bagi wrote: Feels like overreaction. The childish "fuck Take"-stuff isn't helping anyone either.
Yeah man we should totally just hug it out after he threatened my wife and the team with legal action.
Is this the first time you got threatened with legal action? My mom deals with that daily at her work with clients. Grow up. I got threatened with legal action and racism a couple days ago. You know what I did? I played it cool, stayed calm, and finished my transaction with the buyer.
News just in, eSports is not the same as working at a supermarket.
That was pretty rude
He was asking for it.
That statement looks like it's being written by a 16 year old that's proud of his $8/hour first job. You have to be pretty terrible at critical thinking to believe that a public figure is going to resign the first time she/he runs into any sort of adversity. Now, I'm sure he had a point, but telling a public figure who's had her job for a while now to grow up as if she's running away at the first booboo kind of justified TB's reaction.
I'm no bigshot or even a medium-shot, but in real estate, you get threatened with legal action for practically anything you do. Also, anyone who has had their house foreclosed is most likely to pull the racist card. I can't count how many times I've been told to stuff my papers up my ass go back to China because some guy thinks that it's his house despite not having made a payment in 12 months.
(I had a friend tell me a story about a tenant who hadn't paid in years, previous owner lost the property when he filed bankruptcy, and the guy had the gall to point a gun at my friend, refuse to leave until court proceedings allowed the authorities to evict his ass, then strip the property of its copper wiring before he left).
But hey, we're not talking about angry scumbags. We hold TaKe to a higher standard, much higher.
Very unprofessional from u genna. Put again private chats on. I would be happy when the law fights you. Ur not good for esports and so is TotalBiscuit. Hf anyway
On August 16 2013 13:18 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:
On August 16 2013 13:13 Joedaddy wrote:
On August 16 2013 13:10 chaos021 wrote: What the actual fuck? Why did this escalate at all? Can anyone please explain this?
cuz.... TB is being TB, as usual. That's my guess anyway.
Uh... no. Everything was nice and settled, and then Take threatened to sue Axiom for posting chat logs which made him look like a wonderful human being. Genna has undergone ordeals throughout the past year that generate the kind of stress most people couldn't endure. No doubt this last incident was the straw that broke the camel's back.
Things obviously were not settled if Genna's previous blog revealed information that got TaKe in trouble with either the main tournament sponsor (Acer) or other teams...
Did you read what Take said in those logs? He looked like a wonderful person trying far harder than he needed to to rectify a mistake of his. Acer didn't look evil at all, either. They didn't scam anyone, didn't withhold money, none of that crap.
I did read them and I agree - she even thanked and commended TaKe's efforts.
Unfortunately TaKe felt differently (from this blog)
[6:51:49 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: i guess if acer gonna read this they will get mad [6:51:54 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: that you posted it online [6:51:55 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: 10 times [6:52:02 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: more than u can ever imagine [6:52:14 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: cause there you let acer look very bad
I'll be honest, I don't fully know what TaKe is referring to (for all I know he could be misinterpreting something Genna said).
I just find it to be in very poor taste to continue to share one-on-one chat's after someone has already expressed displeasure about it. (Granted, such is the level of "privacy" when everything is written down and everyone has a camera and internet in their pockets.)
I can understand Take being upset that private chat logs were posted publicly without his consent. Its a pretty serious breach of business ethics, and completely undermines the idea that Genna was the victim of professional discourtesy.
On August 16 2013 13:33 skatblast wrote: Dont make private conversations public, it cant be that hard to understand, sorry and goodbye. Goodluck
She made the post to clear her teams name NO one except Take was hurt for whatever reason. He had no reason to be hurt.
he most definitely does....
it's a private conversation. Imagine if you had a private conversation open for the public...
it's really that simple
Sure he was hurt, but part of that is probably due to embarrassment. He came out and made false claims making Axiom look bad. How to prove his statements untrue. You release the facts.
Take should have felt bad with the information he was trying to provide to us to save face. Now he should feel more awkward for being proven a liar. Then wishing he would be able to take legal steps.
On August 16 2013 13:36 theking1 wrote: I do not think this is much of a surprise comming form the totalbiscuit-genna couple.They invested some money into sc2 but after failing to obtain big profits(and i am only quoting tb twitter right here) they sort of realize that esports is not exactly the thing that could bring in profits and they decide to slowly leave by throwing dirt at everyone that disagrees with them,This is happening in the context in which totalbiscuit is threatening to stop casting sc2 (like anyone forced him in the first place).
This entire paragraph. All of it is wrong. All of it.
why?go look on totalbiscutis twitter now.See how many posts he has bashing the sc2 community,the sc2 scene and whining how ihe is gonna leave cause he ain't making money.Its the truth.The fact that now they are trying to find pretexts by bashing take(a guy here form day 0) because of a skype conversation(lol) is preety childish.
@dcemuser
a conversation on skype is not a lawsuit.Take might have had a bad moment and decided to vent.We dunno if he was even serious take might have been just upset and trolling.beside it is childish to jump on conclusions without hearing his side of the story
Do you ever read any of the context to any of those complaints or are you just mad that someone is rocking the boat that you blissfully ignorantly think is sailing smoothly?
There's context within this thread that justifies EVERYTHING that TB is complaining about. He and his Wife got stuck in a shitty situation of which they had very little control over and when official reports come out blaming them they do what any reasonable person does, they protect themselves.
They didn't fire the first shot here, they didn't screw the situation up. The only thing they did was explain in detail to the community what went wrong.
Someone else got upset because his toes got stepped on. Big freaking deal, if TB and Genna hadn't gotten thrown under the bus in the first place they wouldn't have had cause to even post the original blog in the first place.
On August 16 2013 13:30 pbjsandwich wrote: I think it's fair to think Take came off as a dick in this situation
but he is completely fair in being this angry too. Look the whole blog post previous to this Genna only took very partial blame for this while posting many paragraphs and reasoning on why it is Take's teams fault
Not knowing the details of travel expenses is a HUGE oversight and creating a blog post, essentially, damage controlling it would be extremely angering if I was take
It's not all completely her fault but the fact that she mad e apost with private messages to damage control her huge mistake justifies Take's anger IMO
She definitely took only partial blame. That's true. She shouldn't take complete blame because it wasn't solely her fault.
I do agree with that
but to not get complete confirmation for the travel? That is the most expensive part and if you haven't figured that out until a week before the event?
What are you doing????
WCS timing matters here. The travel for that probably wouldn't have been figured into budgets created at the beginning of the year. So there are a lot of unplanned expenses that swallow the entire budget. And from the other side, what kind of tournament doesn't say: hey, our LAN final is at this time and this is what we're willing to do for travel arrangements? Literally every tournament provides some sort of travel accommodation as part of the package. Why wouldn't you be clear and up-front about what that was?
So it was bad communication and planning from both sides, and Genna acknowledged that.
yes she acknowledged that
but a majority of her previous blog post blames the Take team...
like I said before, that's a ridiculous oversight for a team
I think she did a tremendous job showing that TaKe and the ATC organizers did as much as they possibly could to help resolve the situation. She even specifically says TaKe puts on great events and that people should continue to follow and support them.
On August 16 2013 13:36 theking1 wrote: I do not think this is much of a surprise comming form the totalbiscuit-genna couple.They invested some money into sc2 but after failing to obtain big profits(and i am only quoting tb twitter right here) they sort of realize that esports is not exactly the thing that could bring in profits and they decide to slowly leave by throwing dirt at everyone that disagrees with them,This is happening in the context in which totalbiscuit is threatening to stop casting sc2 (like anyone forced him in the first place).
This entire paragraph. All of it is wrong. All of it.
why?go look on totalbiscutis twitter now.See how many posts he has bashing the sc2 community,the sc2 scene and whining how ihe is gonna leave cause he ain't making money.Its the truth.The fact that now they are trying to find pretexts by bashing take(a guy here form day 0) because of a skype conversation(lol) is preety childish.
LOL he's never whined that he hasn't made any money. He's always said that he never intended on making any money off SC2, and that it's a passion project of his. Get your shit right.
of course he has.he throws the 100k dollars on twitter all day long saying how we should be gratefull to him.get back at me when LiquidNazgul or any other team owners(korean included) start asking for good pr because of the money they invested.Esports aint a million dollar business.It is a hole in which you throw money and you are lucky if you recover you innitial investment.It has always been like this.
On August 16 2013 13:10 Bagi wrote: Feels like overreaction. The childish "fuck Take"-stuff isn't helping anyone either.
Yeah man we should totally just hug it out after he threatened my wife and the team with legal action.
Is this the first time you got threatened with legal action? My mom deals with that daily at her work with clients. Grow up. I got threatened with legal action and racism a couple days ago. You know what I did? I played it cool, stayed calm, and finished my transaction with the buyer.
News just in, eSports is not the same as working at a supermarket.
That was pretty rude
And ignorant as well, considering geokilla works in a real estate law firm lol. But TB's in rant-mode x.x
I just want to clarify. I myself don't work in a real estate law firm. Wish I did. I'm too young for that... still studying in university, finding my way. HOWEVER, I hear stories about my mom's clients, builders, etc., and she gets threatened with legal action a lot. Either towards her, or the firm.
And I've worked in a customer service position where I got threatened with legal action at least once each week. I worked full time hours too. If we both acted like TB and how he does on the Internet, we'd be out of a job pretty quickly.
Fair enough; thanks for the clarification
And yeah, I'd imagine most people in most jobs can't get away with acting unprofessional towards anyone just because they have a different opinion.
On August 16 2013 13:36 theking1 wrote: I do not think this is much of a surprise comming form the totalbiscuit-genna couple.They invested some money into sc2 but after failing to obtain big profits(and i am only quoting tb twitter right here) they sort of realize that esports is not exactly the thing that could bring in profits and they decide to slowly leave by throwing dirt at everyone that disagrees with them,This is happening in the context in which totalbiscuit is threatening to stop casting sc2 (like anyone forced him in the first place).
I find quite obnoxious that they are insulting Take who has provided the community with one of the best and most entertaining tournament s there is HSC which ran for 7 editions and made sc2 players look more human.Also take has been with sc2 from the very beggining.In terms of what the sc2 community is concerned I would much rateher prefer to have take and see the next HSCups than hear about totalbiscuit whinning and moaning all day long.
And this is another thing I disliked form the very first day about the totalbiscuit jenna-couple:the constant whinning and moaning.Everybody knows that in the esports industry you have to deal with unpleasant situations.LiquidNAzgul knows about this,alex garfield,sir scoots,day9 and countless other team owners and people involved know about this yet none of them moan and complain as much as totalbiscuit and genna.I mean literally you would think they are the only ones having issues and everyone else doesn't.Totalbiscuit is probably the only teamowner who constantly throws the 100k $ number on twitter to remind the community how much he invested.I never hear Nazgul say on twitter:"Man I invested probably a million dollars since bw in the sc scene you all should not say anything bad about me".Get over it.You are not more entitled than any other team owners who put money into the scen.If esports,and especially sc2 does not make you a profit then for gods sake move one.
I would not be surprised that in a couple of months after tb and genna decide to leave sc2 permanently they will write an essay on reddit simmilar to what destiny did when he switched to lol saying how bad sc2 is and how much the community sucks.On the long run tb will hurt the sc2 proscene more than they will help.
And the excuse about bashing is absolutely pathetic.All people in esports get ot deal with anonymus trolls.So what?Noone has quoted them as the reason for baciing off esports.And bashing Take out of all people is absolutely disgenuite.Oh and by the way Take has not taken any legal action.He might have just been upset and trolled on skype.
In conclusion:I understand that people can not make large amounts of money of sc2.But if you really wana quit the scen do not do it destiny style by throwing trash at everyhting.instead be more humble about it.Nobody blames you.
On August 16 2013 13:33 skatblast wrote: Dont make private conversations public, it cant be that hard to understand, sorry and goodbye. Goodluck
She made the post to clear her teams name NO one except Take was hurt for whatever reason. He had no reason to be hurt.
he most definitely does....
it's a private conversation. Imagine if you had a private conversation open for the public...
it's really that simple
Sure he was hurt, but part of that is probably due to embarrassment. He came out and made false claims making Axiom look bad. How to prove his statements untrue. You release the facts.
Take should have felt bad with the information he was trying to provide to us to save face. Now he should feel more awkward for being proven a liar. Then wishing he would be able to take legal steps.
Exactly. The only reason his precious private conversation got released in the first place was because of how he originally handled the situation.
On August 16 2013 12:58 Joedaddy wrote: Pretty shitty move when you make what one presumed to be a private conversation public. Even if you didn't think it was a big deal, Dennis obviously did.
Fuck Dennis. If he wasn't so concerned about saving face rather than being honest with everybody about his mismanaged tournament then some of this might not have happened. When you say "I hope there are legal consequences for what you've done" all bets are off, I lose any respect I've had for you. I hope Take enjoyed the free casting and the numbers, I'll never deal with him and his organisation ever again.
I have to agree with that sentiment. Maybe that first blog post was not entirely thought through (directly quoting private conversations instead of paraphrasing or summarizing). It's a small mistake, Genna could have reached out to Acer directly if she felt the need to apologize after Take points out that some feathers are ruffled. I'm sure Axiom has a pretty decent relationship with Acer. Take is taking it over the top with the legal threats, I'm rather disgusted. Regardless, it sounds like if it wasn't this bullshit, the next one would have been the straw that broke the camel's back. All the best to Genna.
Genna had already talked about all of this with Acer, we maintain a good relationship with them and they were not in fact pissed off that we posted that stuff at all. Acer would have no doubt done exactly the same thing if they had come under fire. The first duty of a team manager is to protect their team, not protect 3rd parties. We learned that when we tried to do what was right for Demuslim and Sasquatch in WCS after MLGs admin fucked up and were crucified for that as well.
On August 16 2013 13:30 pbjsandwich wrote: I think it's fair to think Take came off as a dick in this situation
but he is completely fair in being this angry too. Look the whole blog post previous to this Genna only took very partial blame for this while posting many paragraphs and reasoning on why it is Take's teams fault
Not knowing the details of travel expenses is a HUGE oversight and creating a blog post, essentially, damage controlling it would be extremely angering if I was take
It's not all completely her fault but the fact that she mad e apost with private messages to damage control her huge mistake justifies Take's anger IMO
She definitely took only partial blame. That's true. She shouldn't take complete blame because it wasn't solely her fault.
I do agree with that
but to not get complete confirmation for the travel? That is the most expensive part and if you haven't figured that out until a week before the event?
What are you doing????
WCS timing matters here. The travel for that probably wouldn't have been figured into budgets created at the beginning of the year. So there are a lot of unplanned expenses that swallow the entire budget. And from the other side, what kind of tournament doesn't say: hey, our LAN final is at this time and this is what we're willing to do for travel arrangements? Literally every tournament provides some sort of travel accommodation as part of the package. Why wouldn't you be clear and up-front about what that was?
So it was bad communication and planning from both sides, and Genna acknowledged that.
yes she acknowledged that
but a majority of her previous blog post blames the Take team...
like I said before, that's a ridiculous oversight for a team
I think she did a tremendous job showing that TaKe and the ATC organizers did as much as they possibly could to help resolve the situation. She even specifically says TaKe puts on great events and that people should continue to follow and support them.
Yes, that is what she tried to say with the commentary
but look at the conclusion of it...
look at the meat of the blog post
It's really like saying "no offense" after saying something hella offensive IMO
Think of it this way. Can u imagine sundance revealing the private skype convos he had with blizzard officials regarding having sc2 events at mlg? Heck no, you would never see such a breach in professional courtesy. What Genna did is just wrong. She really needs to issue a mea culpa and apology to Dennis.
I do not think this is much of a surprise comming form the totalbiscuit-genna couple.They invested some money into sc2 but after failing to obtain big profits(and i am only quoting tb twitter right here) they sort of realize that esports is not exactly the thing that could bring in profits and they decide to slowly leave by throwing dirt at everyone that disagrees with them,This is happening in the context in which totalbiscuit is threatening to stop casting sc2 (like anyone forced him in the first place).
I find quite obnoxious that they are insulting Take who has provided the community with one of the best and most entertaining tournament s there is HSC which ran for 7 editions and made sc2 players look more human.Also take has been with sc2 from the very beggining.In terms of what the sc2 community is concerned I would much rateher prefer to have take and see the next HSCups than hear about totalbiscuit whinning and moaning all day long.
And this is another thing I disliked form the very first day about the totalbiscuit jenna-couple:the constant whinning and moaning.Everybody knows that in the esports industry you have to deal with unpleasant situations.LiquidNAzgul knows about this,alex garfield,sir scoots,day9 and countless other team owners and people involved know about this yet none of them moan and complain as much as totalbiscuit and genna.I mean literally you would think they are the only ones having issues and everyone else doesn't.Totalbiscuit is probably the only teamowner who constantly throws the 100k $ number on twitter to remind the community how much he invested.I never hear Nazgul say on twitter:"Man I invested probably a million dollars since bw in the sc scene you all should not say anything bad about me".Get over it.You are not more entitled than any other team owners who put money into the scen.If esports,and especially sc2 does not make you a profit then for gods sake move one.
I would not be surprised that in a couple of months after tb and genna decide to leave sc2 permanently they will write an essay on reddit simmilar to what destiny did when he switched to lol saying how bad sc2 is and how much the community sucks.On the long run tb will hurt the sc2 proscene more than they will help.
And the excuse about bashing is absolutely pathetic.All people in esports get ot deal with anonymus trolls.So what?Noone has quoted them as the reason for baciing off esports.And bashing Take out of all people is absolutely disgenuite
In conclusion:I understand that people can not make large amounts of money of sc2.But if you really wana quit the scen do not do it destiny style by throwing trash at everyhting.instead be more humble about it.Nobody blames you.
You are so full of shit that I can smell you halfway around the world. All they're trying to do is make the SC2 scene about good players instead of just names and brands. If you just want to run on about random bullshit, go find a bridge and stay under it.
On August 16 2013 13:36 pbjsandwich wrote:
On August 16 2013 13:34 NovemberstOrm wrote:
On August 16 2013 13:33 skatblast wrote: Dont make private conversations public, it cant be that hard to understand, sorry and goodbye. Goodluck
She made the post to clear her teams name NO one except Take was hurt for whatever reason. He had no reason to be hurt.
he most definitely does....
it's a private conversation. Imagine if you had a private conversation open for the public...
it's really that simple
A private conversation?? Why is everyone throwing this shit around like that matters? It's not as if they're signing non-disclosure agreements about any of this. They're talking about business over the internet and have no obligation to keep their mouths shut. Yea, it could be viewed as airing out some laundry. Even if in my opinion, said "laundry" was not dirty, they have their own right to do with it as they will so long as they haven't damaged other involved parties (as far as I know). As far as I can see, no one has been damaged. If he wants to be butthurt about it, that's his business. However, it being a private conversation means not a damn thing.
i'm sorry you don't understand how a private conversation can be a sensitive issue....
On August 16 2013 13:51 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:
On August 16 2013 13:44 ptbl wrote:
On August 16 2013 13:36 dcemuser wrote:
On August 16 2013 13:35 ptbl wrote: Take has the right to be angry. He is the "injured" party. It wasn't take who revealed the private conversations without the other parties consent nor notification.
Irrelevant. She stepped on toes (while painting him as a good person), he stepped over the line.
uhh, Genna exposed the fact that Liquid needed monetary support to send players to the ATC final. Take told Genna the information in confidence, but she revealed it without proper notification nor consent.
So, what do you mean it made Take look good. Airing dirty laundry is never good.
Take volunteered to pay thousands of dollars to help Axiom come to ATC.
No he didn't.
Wow, even with a top-percentile memory I still messed that up. Very sorry, dunno how that happened.
On August 16 2013 13:10 Bagi wrote: Feels like overreaction. The childish "fuck Take"-stuff isn't helping anyone either.
Yeah man we should totally just hug it out after he threatened my wife and the team with legal action.
Is this the first time you got threatened with legal action? My mom deals with that daily at her work with clients. Grow up. I got threatened with legal action and racism a couple days ago. You know what I did? I played it cool, stayed calm, and finished my transaction with the buyer.
News just in, eSports is not the same as working at a supermarket.
That was pretty rude
And ignorant as well, considering geokilla works in a real estate law firm lol. But TB's in rant-mode x.x
I just want to clarify. I myself don't work in a real estate law firm. Wish I did. I'm too young for that... still studying in university, finding my way. HOWEVER, I hear stories about my mom's clients, builders, etc., and she gets threatened with legal action a lot. Either towards her, or the firm.
And I've worked in a customer service position where I got threatened with legal action at least once each week. I worked full time hours too. If we both acted like TB and how he does on the Internet, we'd be out of a job pretty quickly.
Fair enough; thanks for the clarification
And yeah, I'd imagine most people in most jobs can't get away with acting unprofessional towards anyone just because they have a different opinion.
Again this all started because of the original report coming out about Axiom's cancellation not explaining everything first. That report blamed them first, they rebutted in the exact same medium the original report was written in, on the internet.
I honestly didn't think anyone looked "bad" until Take made that comment about legal action. Both sides are to blame and Genna acknowledged that. The appropriate information should have been provided from the beginning by the management of the ATC and Genna should have made sure that all that information was received(tournament location, prize pool, travel stipends, etc..). The only thing that I could see as upsetting between the two parties is Genna posting a bunch of emails/chat logs. But, in my opinion, there wasn't anything controversial said/written/posted(except for the whole legal action thing).
A ) Axiom for not performing due diligence in being aware of all of the parameters for an event they were involved in. B ) TakeTV for not communicating clearly with teams. C ) Acer for not providing enough sponsorship to support travel for the offline portion of ATC.
Take your pick, but consider this.
A ) Fairweather fans are best known by their lack of support during hard times. We appreciate our loyal fans and when we do compete, we do it for them. B ) Organizations that put together good quality events in our community should not be taken for granted. The ATC finals should be great and hopefully you tune in. C ) Acer had a clear contract with TakeTV
You people who are agreeing with Genna Bain are agreeing with the sanctimonious manipulative ass that wrote the above.
I mean REALLY, you either support us or you're a fairweather fan, again you're WITH US or AGAINST US, there is no room for questioning our decisions or anything else because if you do you're AGAINST US remember, you fairweather fan you.
On August 16 2013 13:35 ptbl wrote: Take has the right to be angry. He is the "injured" party. It wasn't take who revealed the private conversations without the other parties consent nor notification.
Irrelevant. She stepped on toes (while painting him as a good person), he stepped over the line.
uhh, Genna exposed the fact that Liquid needed monetary support to send players to the ATC final. Take told Genna the information in confidence, but she revealed it without proper notification nor consent.
So, what do you mean it made Take look good. Airing dirty laundry is never good.
Take volunteered to pay thousands of dollars to help Axiom come to ATC.
On August 16 2013 13:51 Stress wrote: I honestly didn't think anyone looked "bad" until Take made that comment about legal action. Both sides are to blame and Genna acknowledged that. The appropriate information should have been provided from the beginning by the management of the ATC and Genna should have made sure that all that information was received(tournament location, prize pool, travel stipends, etc..). The only thing that I could see as upsetting between the two parties is Genna posting a bunch of emails/chat logs. But, in my opinion, there wasn't anything controversial said/written/posted(except for the whole legal action thing).
On August 16 2013 13:46 pbjsandwich wrote: Look, I know I'm on Takes side in this situation
but I absolutely love Genna and what she's done for this community. It just really pisses me off that people want to talk shit about Take over this
Arguably, Take has done a lot more for this scene
Him doing things for the scene doesn't make him threatening to take people to court because he doesn't like their blog post acceptable.
he runs a business on a thin margin of profit....
I think this is completely fair
How does his profitability change the fact that he decided to threaten legal action over her blog post?
no
if you read my posts I think my best point is the fact that Axiom's oversight of who is paying for the travel is the biggest "fail" in this situation
that is a huge expense and the fact that she didn't realize that it was something that they would have to take care of until a week or 2 before is a huge fucking mistake
On August 16 2013 13:46 pbjsandwich wrote: Look, I know I'm on Takes side in this situation
but I absolutely love Genna and what she's done for this community. It just really pisses me off that people want to talk shit about Take over this
Arguably, Take has done a lot more for this scene
Him doing things for the scene doesn't make him threatening to take people to court because he doesn't like their blog post acceptable.
he runs a business on a thin margin of profit....
I think this is completely fair
How does his profitability change the fact that he decided to threaten legal action over her blog post?
no
if you read my posts I think my best point is the fact that Axiom's oversight of who is paying for the travel is the biggest "fail" in this situation
that is a huge expense and the fact that she didn't realize that it was something that they would have to take care of until a week or 2 before is a huge fucking mistake
when emails aren't sent mistakes happen you know...
On August 16 2013 13:51 Stress wrote: I honestly didn't think anyone looked "bad" until Take made that comment about legal action. Both sides are to blame and Genna acknowledged that. The appropriate information should have been provided from the beginning by the management of the ATC and Genna should have made sure that all that information was received(tournament location, prize pool, travel stipends, etc..). The only thing that I could see as upsetting between the two parties is Genna posting a bunch of emails/chat logs. But, in my opinion, there wasn't anything controversial said/written/posted(except for the whole legal action thing).
That's also how I feel about it.
and this is why I feel like I have to make some posts defending take
because, yes, he did come off as a dick
But this is not complete unjustified at all. Yeah maybe if he just came at her with a simple "You shouldn't of done that" and then come with some kind of legal action if it was possible it would be different
but he was angry (understandably IMO) and decided to show it through a post
On August 16 2013 13:30 pbjsandwich wrote: I think it's fair to think Take came off as a dick in this situation
but he is completely fair in being this angry too. Look the whole blog post previous to this Genna only took very partial blame for this while posting many paragraphs and reasoning on why it is Take's teams fault
Not knowing the details of travel expenses is a HUGE oversight and creating a blog post, essentially, damage controlling it would be extremely angering if I was take
It's not all completely her fault but the fact that she mad e apost with private messages to damage control her huge mistake justifies Take's anger IMO
She definitely took only partial blame. That's true. She shouldn't take complete blame because it wasn't solely her fault.
I do agree with that
but to not get complete confirmation for the travel? That is the most expensive part and if you haven't figured that out until a week before the event?
What are you doing????
WCS timing matters here. The travel for that probably wouldn't have been figured into budgets created at the beginning of the year. So there are a lot of unplanned expenses that swallow the entire budget. And from the other side, what kind of tournament doesn't say: hey, our LAN final is at this time and this is what we're willing to do for travel arrangements? Literally every tournament provides some sort of travel accommodation as part of the package. Why wouldn't you be clear and up-front about what that was?
So it was bad communication and planning from both sides, and Genna acknowledged that.
yes she acknowledged that
but a majority of her previous blog post blames the Take team...
like I said before, that's a ridiculous oversight for a team
I think she did a tremendous job showing that TaKe and the ATC organizers did as much as they possibly could to help resolve the situation. She even specifically says TaKe puts on great events and that people should continue to follow and support them.
Yes, that is what she tried to say with the commentary
but look at the conclusion of it...
look at the meat of the blog post
It's really like saying "no offense" after saying something hella offensive IMO
I don't agree, but I see where you're coming from. You need to remember that originally she wasn't told there WAS an offline finals. Why would you worry about the cost of an online final?
On August 16 2013 13:46 pbjsandwich wrote: Look, I know I'm on Takes side in this situation
but I absolutely love Genna and what she's done for this community. It just really pisses me off that people want to talk shit about Take over this
Arguably, Take has done a lot more for this scene
Him doing things for the scene doesn't make him threatening to take people to court because he doesn't like their blog post acceptable.
he runs a business on a thin margin of profit....
I think this is completely fair
How does his profitability change the fact that he decided to threaten legal action over her blog post?
no
if you read my posts I think my best point is the fact that Axiom's oversight of who is paying for the travel is the biggest "fail" in this situation
that is a huge expense and the fact that she didn't realize that it was something that they would have to take care of until a week or 2 before is a huge fucking mistake
when emails aren't sent mistakes happen you know...
On August 16 2013 13:51 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:
On August 16 2013 13:44 ptbl wrote:
On August 16 2013 13:36 dcemuser wrote:
On August 16 2013 13:35 ptbl wrote: Take has the right to be angry. He is the "injured" party. It wasn't take who revealed the private conversations without the other parties consent nor notification.
Irrelevant. She stepped on toes (while painting him as a good person), he stepped over the line.
uhh, Genna exposed the fact that Liquid needed monetary support to send players to the ATC final. Take told Genna the information in confidence, but she revealed it without proper notification nor consent.
So, what do you mean it made Take look good. Airing dirty laundry is never good.
Take volunteered to pay thousands of dollars to help Axiom come to ATC.
No he didn't.
as they are public might aswell
Dennis : okay i see but lets be honest thier chances doing pretty okay at the finale are there if we cant find a deal at all it would be the worst solution right? the point is i dont have big budgets that i can pay from my own pocket 3-4-5 flights
Genna : Worst case scenario, we forfeit and Millenium takes our slot.
Dennis : but before a team is not coming i really wanna help and even willing to pay some of my money into it thats why i ask i just try to find options
Genna : I'll have to talk to John about it to see if we have anything leftover from our sponsor pool for the month.
Dennis : okay and i will talk to acer about it if they would cover another 1500+ i think i am willing to help to on top
i might misunderstand this, but this looks pretty clear for me, of course i havent been involved or anything in this thing, but it just looks like it.
I do not think this is much of a surprise comming form the totalbiscuit-genna couple.They invested some money into sc2 but after failing to obtain big profits(and i am only quoting tb twitter right here) they sort of realize that esports is not exactly the thing that could bring in profits and they decide to slowly leave by throwing dirt at everyone that disagrees with them,This is happening in the context in which totalbiscuit is threatening to stop casting sc2 (like anyone forced him in the first place).
I find quite obnoxious that they are insulting Take who has provided the community with one of the best and most entertaining tournament s there is HSC which ran for 7 editions and made sc2 players look more human.Also take has been with sc2 from the very beggining.In terms of what the sc2 community is concerned I would much rateher prefer to have take and see the next HSCups than hear about totalbiscuit whinning and moaning all day long.
And this is another thing I disliked form the very first day about the totalbiscuit jenna-couple:the constant whinning and moaning.Everybody knows that in the esports industry you have to deal with unpleasant situations.LiquidNAzgul knows about this,alex garfield,sir scoots,day9 and countless other team owners and people involved know about this yet none of them moan and complain as much as totalbiscuit and genna.I mean literally you would think they are the only ones having issues and everyone else doesn't.Totalbiscuit is probably the only teamowner who constantly throws the 100k $ number on twitter to remind the community how much he invested.I never hear Nazgul say on twitter:"Man I invested probably a million dollars since bw in the sc scene you all should not say anything bad about me".Get over it.You are not more entitled than any other team owners who put money into the scen.If esports,and especially sc2 does not make you a profit then for gods sake move one.
I would not be surprised that in a couple of months after tb and genna decide to leave sc2 permanently they will write an essay on reddit simmilar to what destiny did when he switched to lol saying how bad sc2 is and how much the community sucks.On the long run tb will hurt the sc2 proscene more than they will help.
And the excuse about bashing is absolutely pathetic.All people in esports get ot deal with anonymus trolls.So what?Noone has quoted them as the reason for baciing off esports.And bashing Take out of all people is absolutely disgenuite
In conclusion:I understand that people can not make large amounts of money of sc2.But if you really wana quit the scen do not do it destiny style by throwing trash at everyhting.instead be more humble about it.Nobody blames you.
You are so full of shit that I can smell you halfway around the world. All they're trying to do is make the SC2 scene about good players instead of just names and brands. If you just want to run on about random bullshit, go find a bridge and stay under it.
On August 16 2013 13:36 pbjsandwich wrote:
On August 16 2013 13:34 NovemberstOrm wrote:
On August 16 2013 13:33 skatblast wrote: Dont make private conversations public, it cant be that hard to understand, sorry and goodbye. Goodluck
She made the post to clear her teams name NO one except Take was hurt for whatever reason. He had no reason to be hurt.
he most definitely does....
it's a private conversation. Imagine if you had a private conversation open for the public...
it's really that simple
A private conversation?? Why is everyone throwing this shit around like that matters? It's not as if they're signing non-disclosure agreements about any of this. They're talking about business over the internet and have no obligation to keep their mouths shut. Yea, it could be viewed as airing out some laundry. Even if in my opinion, said "laundry" was not dirty, they have their own right to do with it as they will so long as they haven't damaged other involved parties (as far as I know). As far as I can see, no one has been damaged. If he wants to be butthurt about it, that's his business. However, it being a private conversation means not a damn thing.
i'm sorry you don't understand how a private conversation can be a sensitive issue....
Are you serious? That's all you have?
If there's any question as to the private nature of the conversation that was posted and whether or not it was sensitive enough to consider withholding than I would say there is even less certainty about the seriousness of Take's mention of legal action. It was very clearly an offhand comment. There is a very clear departure from what Take said and what actually serving someone is. Making it a big deal like it has been is incredibly immature.
I can't possibly see an offhand comment from Take being more serious than posting private chat logs discussing financials for multiple parties, some of whom are in no way involved with the ordeal.
On August 16 2013 13:30 pbjsandwich wrote: I think it's fair to think Take came off as a dick in this situation
but he is completely fair in being this angry too. Look the whole blog post previous to this Genna only took very partial blame for this while posting many paragraphs and reasoning on why it is Take's teams fault
Not knowing the details of travel expenses is a HUGE oversight and creating a blog post, essentially, damage controlling it would be extremely angering if I was take
It's not all completely her fault but the fact that she mad e apost with private messages to damage control her huge mistake justifies Take's anger IMO
She definitely took only partial blame. That's true. She shouldn't take complete blame because it wasn't solely her fault.
I do agree with that
but to not get complete confirmation for the travel? That is the most expensive part and if you haven't figured that out until a week before the event?
What are you doing????
WCS timing matters here. The travel for that probably wouldn't have been figured into budgets created at the beginning of the year. So there are a lot of unplanned expenses that swallow the entire budget. And from the other side, what kind of tournament doesn't say: hey, our LAN final is at this time and this is what we're willing to do for travel arrangements? Literally every tournament provides some sort of travel accommodation as part of the package. Why wouldn't you be clear and up-front about what that was?
So it was bad communication and planning from both sides, and Genna acknowledged that.
yes she acknowledged that
but a majority of her previous blog post blames the Take team...
like I said before, that's a ridiculous oversight for a team
I think she did a tremendous job showing that TaKe and the ATC organizers did as much as they possibly could to help resolve the situation. She even specifically says TaKe puts on great events and that people should continue to follow and support them.
Yes, that is what she tried to say with the commentary
but look at the conclusion of it...
look at the meat of the blog post
It's really like saying "no offense" after saying something hella offensive IMO
I don't agree, but I see where you're coming from.
yeah
I think it does come down to who you think should tak emore blame for the ATC debacle which I can respect both sides of
A ) Axiom for not performing due diligence in being aware of all of the parameters for an event they were involved in. B ) TakeTV for not communicating clearly with teams. C ) Acer for not providing enough sponsorship to support travel for the offline portion of ATC.
Take your pick, but consider this.
A ) Fairweather fans are best known by their lack of support during hard times. We appreciate our loyal fans and when we do compete, we do it for them. B ) Organizations that put together good quality events in our community should not be taken for granted. The ATC finals should be great and hopefully you tune in. C ) Acer had a clear contract with TakeTV
You people who are agreeing with Genna Bain are agreeing with the sanctimonious manipulative ass that wrote the above.
I mean REALLY, you either support us or you're a fairweather fan, again you're WITH US or AGAINST US, there is no room for questioning our decisions or anything else because if you do you're AGAINST US remember, you fairweather fan you.
Are you THAT bad at reading comprehension? Honest question because I totally offer tutoring in that subject.
Her A: is written with the implication that anyone that withdraws support for the entire team over this issue is being called a fairweather fan. Which actually is a pretty accurate description. It means absolutely nothing to anyone that is neutral in regards to Axiom.
She isn't saying "You're with us or against us" she's just saying, look yea we are partially to blame for this fucked up situation and if you are going to withdraw your support of us over this then that's fine with me.
Nowhere in there is she making the claim that you're making, you're simply interpreting it that way.
On August 16 2013 13:46 pbjsandwich wrote: Look, I know I'm on Takes side in this situation
but I absolutely love Genna and what she's done for this community. It just really pisses me off that people want to talk shit about Take over this
Arguably, Take has done a lot more for this scene
Him doing things for the scene doesn't make him threatening to take people to court because he doesn't like their blog post acceptable.
he runs a business on a thin margin of profit....
I think this is completely fair
How does his profitability change the fact that he decided to threaten legal action over her blog post?
no
if you read my posts I think my best point is the fact that Axiom's oversight of who is paying for the travel is the biggest "fail" in this situation
that is a huge expense and the fact that she didn't realize that it was something that they would have to take care of until a week or 2 before is a huge fucking mistake
when emails aren't sent mistakes happen you know...
On August 16 2013 13:51 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:
On August 16 2013 13:44 ptbl wrote:
On August 16 2013 13:36 dcemuser wrote:
On August 16 2013 13:35 ptbl wrote: Take has the right to be angry. He is the "injured" party. It wasn't take who revealed the private conversations without the other parties consent nor notification.
Irrelevant. She stepped on toes (while painting him as a good person), he stepped over the line.
uhh, Genna exposed the fact that Liquid needed monetary support to send players to the ATC final. Take told Genna the information in confidence, but she revealed it without proper notification nor consent.
So, what do you mean it made Take look good. Airing dirty laundry is never good.
Take volunteered to pay thousands of dollars to help Axiom come to ATC.
Dennis : okay i see but lets be honest thier chances doing pretty okay at the finale are there if we cant find a deal at all it would be the worst solution right? the point is i dont have big budgets that i can pay from my own pocket 3-4-5 flights
Genna : Worst case scenario, we forfeit and Millenium takes our slot.
Dennis : but before a team is not coming i really wanna help and even willing to pay some of my money into it thats why i ask i just try to find options
Genna : I'll have to talk to John about it to see if we have anything leftover from our sponsor pool for the month.
Dennis : okay and i will talk to acer about it if they would cover another 1500+ i think i am willing to help to on top
"If Acer will pay an additional fee I will try and help" is not the same thing.
Guys, remember when that one girl posted Destiny's dick on reddit or something like that after she found out he was a douche bag from his skype chat? Pretty sure it's all fair game to release to public unless you've got some sort of non-disclosure agreement or whatever that is. Dicks included. (At least that scenario was much more humorous)
On August 16 2013 13:46 pbjsandwich wrote: Look, I know I'm on Takes side in this situation
but I absolutely love Genna and what she's done for this community. It just really pisses me off that people want to talk shit about Take over this
Arguably, Take has done a lot more for this scene
Him doing things for the scene doesn't make him threatening to take people to court because he doesn't like their blog post acceptable.
he runs a business on a thin margin of profit....
I think this is completely fair
How does his profitability change the fact that he decided to threaten legal action over her blog post?
no
if you read my posts I think my best point is the fact that Axiom's oversight of who is paying for the travel is the biggest "fail" in this situation
that is a huge expense and the fact that she didn't realize that it was something that they would have to take care of until a week or 2 before is a huge fucking mistake
when emails aren't sent mistakes happen you know...
is it not a ridiculous oversight?
Still not understanding where the excuse for legal threats comes in?
On August 16 2013 13:46 pbjsandwich wrote: Look, I know I'm on Takes side in this situation
but I absolutely love Genna and what she's done for this community. It just really pisses me off that people want to talk shit about Take over this
Arguably, Take has done a lot more for this scene
Him doing things for the scene doesn't make him threatening to take people to court because he doesn't like their blog post acceptable.
he runs a business on a thin margin of profit....
I think this is completely fair
How does his profitability change the fact that he decided to threaten legal action over her blog post?
no
if you read my posts I think my best point is the fact that Axiom's oversight of who is paying for the travel is the biggest "fail" in this situation
that is a huge expense and the fact that she didn't realize that it was something that they would have to take care of until a week or 2 before is a huge fucking mistake
when emails aren't sent mistakes happen you know...
is it not a ridiculous oversight?
no. because expecting ppl to come to korea for a ridiculous prizpool if you don't pay their expense is kinda stupid.
On August 16 2013 13:51 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:
On August 16 2013 13:44 ptbl wrote:
On August 16 2013 13:36 dcemuser wrote:
On August 16 2013 13:35 ptbl wrote: Take has the right to be angry. He is the "injured" party. It wasn't take who revealed the private conversations without the other parties consent nor notification.
Irrelevant. She stepped on toes (while painting him as a good person), he stepped over the line.
uhh, Genna exposed the fact that Liquid needed monetary support to send players to the ATC final. Take told Genna the information in confidence, but she revealed it without proper notification nor consent.
So, what do you mean it made Take look good. Airing dirty laundry is never good.
Take volunteered to pay thousands of dollars to help Axiom come to ATC.
No he didn't.
Wow, even with a top-percentile memory I still messed that up. Very sorry, dunno how that happened.
A ) Axiom for not performing due diligence in being aware of all of the parameters for an event they were involved in. B ) TakeTV for not communicating clearly with teams. C ) Acer for not providing enough sponsorship to support travel for the offline portion of ATC.
Take your pick, but consider this.
A ) Fairweather fans are best known by their lack of support during hard times. We appreciate our loyal fans and when we do compete, we do it for them. B ) Organizations that put together good quality events in our community should not be taken for granted. The ATC finals should be great and hopefully you tune in. C ) Acer had a clear contract with TakeTV
You people who are agreeing with Genna Bain are agreeing with the sanctimonious manipulative ass that wrote the above.
I mean REALLY, you either support us or you're a fairweather fan, again you're WITH US or AGAINST US, there is no room for questioning our decisions or anything else because if you do you're AGAINST US remember, you fairweather fan you.
Sounds a lot like Idra on RealTalk, thanks to my real fans!
Sad news You have done so much for those players and all of SC2/e-sports. The community is lucky to have you. Good luck, and I am sure you will continue to do awesome things.
On August 16 2013 13:46 pbjsandwich wrote: Look, I know I'm on Takes side in this situation
but I absolutely love Genna and what she's done for this community. It just really pisses me off that people want to talk shit about Take over this
Arguably, Take has done a lot more for this scene
Him doing things for the scene doesn't make him threatening to take people to court because he doesn't like their blog post acceptable.
he runs a business on a thin margin of profit....
I think this is completely fair
How does his profitability change the fact that he decided to threaten legal action over her blog post?
no
if you read my posts I think my best point is the fact that Axiom's oversight of who is paying for the travel is the biggest "fail" in this situation
that is a huge expense and the fact that she didn't realize that it was something that they would have to take care of until a week or 2 before is a huge fucking mistake
when emails aren't sent mistakes happen you know...
is it not a ridiculous oversight?
Still not understanding where the excuse for legal threats comes in?
expecting the most expensive part of owning an international team to be covered is ridiculous imo
...even Genna has admitted that as her mistake
I just don't see how you can run a business and just make assumptions like that
Dennis : okay i see but lets be honest thier chances doing pretty okay at the finale are there if we cant find a deal at all it would be the worst solution right? the point is i dont have big budgets that i can pay from my own pocket 3-4-5 flights
Genna : Worst case scenario, we forfeit and Millenium takes our slot.
Dennis : but before a team is not coming i really wanna help and even willing to pay some of my money into it thats why i ask i just try to find options
Genna : I'll have to talk to John about it to see if we have anything leftover from our sponsor pool for the month.
Dennis : okay and i will talk to acer about it if they would cover another 1500+ i think i am willing to help to on top
I take it all back its clear Take is the real evil person in this situation.
Guy acts as reasonably as someone can > gets upset about private conversations being made public > gets jumped on by fans of the most toxic duo in e-sports.
On August 16 2013 13:56 Blargh wrote: Guys, remember when that one girl posted Destiny's dick on reddit or something like that after she found out he was a douche bag from his skype chat? Pretty sure it's all fair game to release to public unless you've got some sort of non-disclosure agreement or whatever that is. Dicks included. (At least that scenario was much more humorous)
it's not about fair game, but professional courtesy. When you are talking "business" or have a conversation that is expected to stay between two parties, one does not just air the conversation to the public without notification and consent.
Dennis : okay i see but lets be honest thier chances doing pretty okay at the finale are there if we cant find a deal at all it would be the worst solution right? the point is i dont have big budgets that i can pay from my own pocket 3-4-5 flights
Genna : Worst case scenario, we forfeit and Millenium takes our slot.
Dennis : but before a team is not coming i really wanna help and even willing to pay some of my money into it thats why i ask i just try to find options
Genna : I'll have to talk to John about it to see if we have anything leftover from our sponsor pool for the month.
Dennis : okay and i will talk to acer about it if they would cover another 1500+ i think i am willing to help to on top
I take it all back its clear Take is the real evil person in this situation.
Guy acts as reasonably as someone can > gets upset about private conversations being made public > gets jumped on by fans of the most toxic duo in e-sports.
after the guy offered to help them with money this is what they do to him....
On August 16 2013 13:46 pbjsandwich wrote: Look, I know I'm on Takes side in this situation
but I absolutely love Genna and what she's done for this community. It just really pisses me off that people want to talk shit about Take over this
Arguably, Take has done a lot more for this scene
Him doing things for the scene doesn't make him threatening to take people to court because he doesn't like their blog post acceptable.
he runs a business on a thin margin of profit....
I think this is completely fair
How does his profitability change the fact that he decided to threaten legal action over her blog post?
no
if you read my posts I think my best point is the fact that Axiom's oversight of who is paying for the travel is the biggest "fail" in this situation
that is a huge expense and the fact that she didn't realize that it was something that they would have to take care of until a week or 2 before is a huge fucking mistake
when emails aren't sent mistakes happen you know...
when you ASSUME...
Yeah that was a point I was confused about. The tournament guy did seem embarrassed that his e-mail never got CCed to Genna, but at the same time does that absolve Genna from any typical responsibilities that a team owner/ manager might have (e.g., making sure that playing in a tournament is financially feasible before agreeing to play)? I feel like Genna not getting that e-mail was obviously a problem on the tournament's side, but at the same time, I would think Axiom management should check anyway?
Dennis : okay i see but lets be honest thier chances doing pretty okay at the finale are there if we cant find a deal at all it would be the worst solution right? the point is i dont have big budgets that i can pay from my own pocket 3-4-5 flights
Genna : Worst case scenario, we forfeit and Millenium takes our slot.
Dennis : but before a team is not coming i really wanna help and even willing to pay some of my money into it thats why i ask i just try to find options
Genna : I'll have to talk to John about it to see if we have anything leftover from our sponsor pool for the month.
Dennis : okay and i will talk to acer about it if they would cover another 1500+ i think i am willing to help to on top
I take it all back its clear Take is the real evil person in this situation.
Guy acts as reasonably as someone can > gets upset about private conversations being made public > gets jumped on by fans of the most toxic duo in e-sports.
Honestly, as these things continue to happen over and over, it feels like this is more and more true.
On August 16 2013 13:46 pbjsandwich wrote: Look, I know I'm on Takes side in this situation
but I absolutely love Genna and what she's done for this community. It just really pisses me off that people want to talk shit about Take over this
Arguably, Take has done a lot more for this scene
Him doing things for the scene doesn't make him threatening to take people to court because he doesn't like their blog post acceptable.
he runs a business on a thin margin of profit....
I think this is completely fair
How does his profitability change the fact that he decided to threaten legal action over her blog post?
no
if you read my posts I think my best point is the fact that Axiom's oversight of who is paying for the travel is the biggest "fail" in this situation
that is a huge expense and the fact that she didn't realize that it was something that they would have to take care of until a week or 2 before is a huge fucking mistake
when emails aren't sent mistakes happen you know...
when you ASSUME...
Yeah that was a point I was confused about. The tournament guy did seem embarrassed that his e-mail never got CCed to Genna, but at the same time does that absolve Genna from any typical responsibilities that a team owner/ manager might have (e.g., making sure that playing in a tournament is financially feasible before agreeing to play)? I feel like Genna not getting that e-mail was obviously a problem on the tournament's side, but at the same time, I would think Axiom management should check anyway?
They didn't say there was going to be an offline final! People need to stop forgetting that. Axiom signed up for an online teamleague and then all of a sudden there was an offline final. Genna said:
Just going to reiterate here again for those who might not have read my previous comment. When we were invited, there was no mention of any offline portion. None. You can read our invitation email, the rules, etc., not one word said a thing about an offline finals. If they had said "oh and we will have an offline final", I'd have asked for info about compensation. However, since it was added after the fact, I assumed no organizer would spring an offline finals on teams that had already accepted an invitation unless they were the ones paying for the flights.
On August 16 2013 13:46 pbjsandwich wrote: Look, I know I'm on Takes side in this situation
but I absolutely love Genna and what she's done for this community. It just really pisses me off that people want to talk shit about Take over this
Arguably, Take has done a lot more for this scene
Him doing things for the scene doesn't make him threatening to take people to court because he doesn't like their blog post acceptable.
he runs a business on a thin margin of profit....
I think this is completely fair
How does his profitability change the fact that he decided to threaten legal action over her blog post?
no
if you read my posts I think my best point is the fact that Axiom's oversight of who is paying for the travel is the biggest "fail" in this situation
that is a huge expense and the fact that she didn't realize that it was something that they would have to take care of until a week or 2 before is a huge fucking mistake
when emails aren't sent mistakes happen you know...
when you ASSUME...
Yeah that was a point I was confused about. The tournament guy did seem embarrassed that his e-mail never got CCed to Genna, but at the same time does that absolve Genna from any typical responsibilities that a team owner/ manager might have (e.g., making sure that playing in a tournament is financially feasible before agreeing to play)? I feel like Genna not getting that e-mail was obviously a problem on the tournament's side, but at the same time, I would think Axiom management should check anyway?
They didn't say there was going to be an offline final! People need to stop forgetting that. Axiom signed up for an online teamleague and then all of a sudden there was an offline final. Genna said:
Just going to reiterate here again for those who might not have read my previous comment. When we were invited, there was no mention of any offline portion. None. You can read our invitation email, the rules, etc., not one word said a thing about an offline finals. If they had said "oh and we will have an offline final", I'd have asked for info about compensation. However, since it was added after the fact, I assumed no organizer would spring an offline finals on teams that had already accepted an invitation unless they were the ones paying for the flights.
the offline final was introduced early
really early. I mean everything you're saying Genna actually takes blame for in her past blog post
On August 16 2013 13:46 pbjsandwich wrote: Look, I know I'm on Takes side in this situation
but I absolutely love Genna and what she's done for this community. It just really pisses me off that people want to talk shit about Take over this
Arguably, Take has done a lot more for this scene
Him doing things for the scene doesn't make him threatening to take people to court because he doesn't like their blog post acceptable.
he runs a business on a thin margin of profit....
I think this is completely fair
How does his profitability change the fact that he decided to threaten legal action over her blog post?
no
if you read my posts I think my best point is the fact that Axiom's oversight of who is paying for the travel is the biggest "fail" in this situation
that is a huge expense and the fact that she didn't realize that it was something that they would have to take care of until a week or 2 before is a huge fucking mistake
when emails aren't sent mistakes happen you know...
when you ASSUME...
Yeah that was a point I was confused about. The tournament guy did seem embarrassed that his e-mail never got CCed to Genna, but at the same time does that absolve Genna from any typical responsibilities that a team owner/ manager might have (e.g., making sure that playing in a tournament is financially feasible before agreeing to play)? I feel like Genna not getting that e-mail was obviously a problem on the tournament's side, but at the same time, I would think Axiom management should check anyway?
They didn't say there was going to be an offline final! People need to stop forgetting that. Axiom signed up for an online teamleague and then all of a sudden there was an offline final. Genna said:
Just going to reiterate here again for those who might not have read my previous comment. When we were invited, there was no mention of any offline portion. None. You can read our invitation email, the rules, etc., not one word said a thing about an offline finals. If they had said "oh and we will have an offline final", I'd have asked for info about compensation. However, since it was added after the fact, I assumed no organizer would spring an offline finals on teams that had already accepted an invitation unless they were the ones paying for the flights.
the offline final was introduced early
really early. I mean everything you're saying Genna actually takes blame for in her past blog post
Early, but after teams agreed to participate. Just saying. The people who are all "Genna sucks! She's totally incompetent! TaKe is great!" are completely wrongheaded about this.
On August 16 2013 13:46 pbjsandwich wrote: Look, I know I'm on Takes side in this situation
but I absolutely love Genna and what she's done for this community. It just really pisses me off that people want to talk shit about Take over this
Arguably, Take has done a lot more for this scene
Him doing things for the scene doesn't make him threatening to take people to court because he doesn't like their blog post acceptable.
he runs a business on a thin margin of profit....
I think this is completely fair
How does his profitability change the fact that he decided to threaten legal action over her blog post?
no
if you read my posts I think my best point is the fact that Axiom's oversight of who is paying for the travel is the biggest "fail" in this situation
that is a huge expense and the fact that she didn't realize that it was something that they would have to take care of until a week or 2 before is a huge fucking mistake
when emails aren't sent mistakes happen you know...
when you ASSUME...
Yeah that was a point I was confused about. The tournament guy did seem embarrassed that his e-mail never got CCed to Genna, but at the same time does that absolve Genna from any typical responsibilities that a team owner/ manager might have (e.g., making sure that playing in a tournament is financially feasible before agreeing to play)? I feel like Genna not getting that e-mail was obviously a problem on the tournament's side, but at the same time, I would think Axiom management should check anyway?
They didn't say there was going to be an offline final! People need to stop forgetting that. Axiom signed up for an online teamleague and then all of a sudden there was an offline final. Genna said:
Just going to reiterate here again for those who might not have read my previous comment. When we were invited, there was no mention of any offline portion. None. You can read our invitation email, the rules, etc., not one word said a thing about an offline finals. If they had said "oh and we will have an offline final", I'd have asked for info about compensation. However, since it was added after the fact, I assumed no organizer would spring an offline finals on teams that had already accepted an invitation unless they were the ones paying for the flights.
The earliest mention of an offline final was on page 5 of the announcement thread:
we will provide you with some more information very soon We also had alot of stuff to do with the cebit BUT! I saw some question i would love to answer and i think you might like them!!
We cover 1500 Dollar travelexpenses to support the teams Plus! Hotels for the teams so that they don t have to pay all the costs!!! I hope this shows that we want to help the teams and we know its expensive to send 4-5 players!
Beside that this will be an onlineleague with the top 4 qualifying for the offline finale which is 2 days (Saturday/Sunday) at my place!!
More information will come!! Stay tuned and awesome first feedback <333 i am an old wc3 player and played several wc3l saisons and i was aiming for this teamleague for along time and i am happy that acer and also intel is supporting me with that <3 but also don t forget about roccat and needforseat who support the whole thing too!
Times for the qualifiers will be also announced offiicially very soon but we have to wait for an official go but it will be soon! All teams be prepared!
On August 16 2013 13:47 TheButtonmen wrote: [quote]
Him doing things for the scene doesn't make him threatening to take people to court because he doesn't like their blog post acceptable.
he runs a business on a thin margin of profit....
I think this is completely fair
How does his profitability change the fact that he decided to threaten legal action over her blog post?
no
if you read my posts I think my best point is the fact that Axiom's oversight of who is paying for the travel is the biggest "fail" in this situation
that is a huge expense and the fact that she didn't realize that it was something that they would have to take care of until a week or 2 before is a huge fucking mistake
when emails aren't sent mistakes happen you know...
when you ASSUME...
Yeah that was a point I was confused about. The tournament guy did seem embarrassed that his e-mail never got CCed to Genna, but at the same time does that absolve Genna from any typical responsibilities that a team owner/ manager might have (e.g., making sure that playing in a tournament is financially feasible before agreeing to play)? I feel like Genna not getting that e-mail was obviously a problem on the tournament's side, but at the same time, I would think Axiom management should check anyway?
They didn't say there was going to be an offline final! People need to stop forgetting that. Axiom signed up for an online teamleague and then all of a sudden there was an offline final. Genna said:
Just going to reiterate here again for those who might not have read my previous comment. When we were invited, there was no mention of any offline portion. None. You can read our invitation email, the rules, etc., not one word said a thing about an offline finals. If they had said "oh and we will have an offline final", I'd have asked for info about compensation. However, since it was added after the fact, I assumed no organizer would spring an offline finals on teams that had already accepted an invitation unless they were the ones paying for the flights.
the offline final was introduced early
really early. I mean everything you're saying Genna actually takes blame for in her past blog post
Early, but after teams agreed to participate. Just saying. The people who are all "Genna sucks! She's totally incompetent! TaKe is great!" are completely wrongheaded about this.
On August 16 2013 13:46 pbjsandwich wrote: Look, I know I'm on Takes side in this situation
but I absolutely love Genna and what she's done for this community. It just really pisses me off that people want to talk shit about Take over this
Arguably, Take has done a lot more for this scene
Him doing things for the scene doesn't make him threatening to take people to court because he doesn't like their blog post acceptable.
he runs a business on a thin margin of profit....
I think this is completely fair
How does his profitability change the fact that he decided to threaten legal action over her blog post?
no
if you read my posts I think my best point is the fact that Axiom's oversight of who is paying for the travel is the biggest "fail" in this situation
that is a huge expense and the fact that she didn't realize that it was something that they would have to take care of until a week or 2 before is a huge fucking mistake
when emails aren't sent mistakes happen you know...
when you ASSUME...
Yeah that was a point I was confused about. The tournament guy did seem embarrassed that his e-mail never got CCed to Genna, but at the same time does that absolve Genna from any typical responsibilities that a team owner/ manager might have (e.g., making sure that playing in a tournament is financially feasible before agreeing to play)? I feel like Genna not getting that e-mail was obviously a problem on the tournament's side, but at the same time, I would think Axiom management should check anyway?
- Mr. Tournament Guy should be held responsible for the non-communication to Axiom/Genna. - No, Genna should have done her due diligence (whether she did it or someone else in the organization) - The assumption of having the entire team sent to the event on the tournament's account was bad judgement.
My take on this is that TaKe was trying to defend his sponsor, and with Axiom cutting its cord from being in the tournament that fueled his anger even more thinking Genna was "tattling" on what happened. I can look at it that way, but.. that wouldn't be professional. This is both sides being unprofessional, and it turns the industry in to a shit hole.
Despite how this has happened I think the way TB is acting (ie. some of the posts in this thread towards TaKe) is completely unnecessary. Cynical Brit'ism irrelevant.
On August 16 2013 13:46 pbjsandwich wrote: Look, I know I'm on Takes side in this situation
but I absolutely love Genna and what she's done for this community. It just really pisses me off that people want to talk shit about Take over this
Arguably, Take has done a lot more for this scene
Him doing things for the scene doesn't make him threatening to take people to court because he doesn't like their blog post acceptable.
he runs a business on a thin margin of profit....
I think this is completely fair
How does his profitability change the fact that he decided to threaten legal action over her blog post?
no
if you read my posts I think my best point is the fact that Axiom's oversight of who is paying for the travel is the biggest "fail" in this situation
that is a huge expense and the fact that she didn't realize that it was something that they would have to take care of until a week or 2 before is a huge fucking mistake
when emails aren't sent mistakes happen you know...
when you ASSUME...
Yeah that was a point I was confused about. The tournament guy did seem embarrassed that his e-mail never got CCed to Genna, but at the same time does that absolve Genna from any typical responsibilities that a team owner/ manager might have (e.g., making sure that playing in a tournament is financially feasible before agreeing to play)? I feel like Genna not getting that e-mail was obviously a problem on the tournament's side, but at the same time, I would think Axiom management should check anyway?
They didn't say there was going to be an offline final! People need to stop forgetting that. Axiom signed up for an online teamleague and then all of a sudden there was an offline final. Genna said:
Just going to reiterate here again for those who might not have read my previous comment. When we were invited, there was no mention of any offline portion. None. You can read our invitation email, the rules, etc., not one word said a thing about an offline finals. If they had said "oh and we will have an offline final", I'd have asked for info about compensation. However, since it was added after the fact, I assumed no organizer would spring an offline finals on teams that had already accepted an invitation unless they were the ones paying for the flights.
The earliest mention of an offline final was on page 5 of the announcement thread:
we will provide you with some more information very soon We also had alot of stuff to do with the cebit BUT! I saw some question i would love to answer and i think you might like them!!
We cover 1500 Dollar travelexpenses to support the teams Plus! Hotels for the teams so that they don t have to pay all the costs!!! I hope this shows that we want to help the teams and we know its expensive to send 4-5 players!
Beside that this will be an onlineleague with the top 4 qualifying for the offline finale which is 2 days (Saturday/Sunday) at my place!!
More information will come!! Stay tuned and awesome first feedback <333 i am an old wc3 player and played several wc3l saisons and i was aiming for this teamleague for along time and i am happy that acer and also intel is supporting me with that <3 but also don t forget about roccat and needforseat who support the whole thing too!
Times for the qualifiers will be also announced offiicially very soon but we have to wait for an official go but it will be soon! All teams be prepared!
//Dennis
according to Genna's first blog
Who : Christopher Mönig (TakeTV) When : Feb. 24th, 2013 Where : Email
my name is Christopher and I´m the contentmanager of TaKeTV. Im not sure if this is the right adress to contact 'Axiom', but I only found your business card in our office.
TaKeTV will start a european Teamleague. The team league will start at around ~15. march(not fix yet!) and culminate in fantastic finals at the TakeTV studio. All in all, 8 teams will be fighting on 14 match days for another $20,000 prize money. Each team consists of at least 4 players. The “all-kill” format will be played in a best-of-9 and finished by a special ace player. Four teams will get a direct invitation, while the other four participating teams will be determined in two separate qualification tournaments.
If Axiom is interessted I would love to get a response -
Sincerely, Christopher Mönig Content Manager of TaKeTV
Tangential note that everyone would do well to remember, something I keep in mind because it can happen with my job.
When speaking as a professional, or even when you might be perceived as doing so, never say anything that you would not want broadcast to the world. Then you never have to worry about it if it happens.
How can TB possibly have the time to run the team like that? Besides, isn't he repeatedly pointing out that he's terrible at organizing stuff, which is why he needs someone like Genna to do that part?
Well....that escalated quickly! Everything seemed fine to me after all the explanations so I dunno why it escalated to this level. Axiom got replaced by millennium anyways and that would probably lead to more viewers with a european team there too, so I dunno why Take haff to be so mad? You have my pitchfork genna! It sounds like you didn't do anything terribly wrong and take overreacted.
On August 16 2013 12:53 sumsaR wrote: I'm not sure I understand why you're retiring. Because of something stupid someone said in a private chat about something stupid?
The audacity that anyone is questioning her decision to leave and pretending to know what's going on in her head, the sheer audacity.
TB, we can't read her mind. How do you expect us to understand something that is not explained? I understand you and Genna are frustrated, I just have NO idea why.
You know what would be so refreshing? If both parties could sort this privately while publicly apologizing for turning it into a spectacle in the first place. Save 10 pages of bickering and refuting this and that, save one more shovel of shit on the pile, and surprise everyone in the community by acting like business-minded individuals. I'm sure all players involved with both parties will be grateful.
On August 16 2013 14:17 BroOd wrote: You know what would be so refreshing? If both parties could sort this privately while publicly apologizing for turning it into a spectacle in the first place. Save 10 pages of bickering and refuting this and that, save one more shovel of shit on the pile, and surprise everyone in the community by acting like business-minded individuals. I'm sure all players involved with both parties will be grateful.
On August 16 2013 14:19 Aylear wrote: TB's thoughts on Genna's retirement went mostly unnoticed in this thread, but it really is superb and everyone should listen to it.
On August 16 2013 14:19 Aylear wrote: TB's thoughts on Genna's retirement went mostly unnoticed in this thread, but it really is superb and everyone should listen to it.
Sanctimony in stereo guys, worth a listen just for that.
The one positive is he promises to take a step back from TL/reddit and twitter now so at least he might stop putting his foot in his mouth all the time.
TaKe has all right to complain if you post non-public information about his deal with Acer online, because essentially Acer now got bad publicity because you were bitching about how little money they were willing to give. They're sponsoring events to get people to like Acer, not so the entire Biscuit family and following can hate them for not paying for your team to fly over. That might not have been your intent, but it is what happened.
This and the last blog just oozes unprofessionalism, so in the end this is the best solution I suppose.
i guess its good that Genna is owning up to her mistake, posting private chat information that can endanger someones business is no small feat. When you cant stay professional and have to get emotionally involved in business decisions you have no place managing anything.
TB argues that Takes only issue with this is about saving face, its more than that. Its about Takes business and how he can make a living of it, who would sponsor him ever again when he cant control that his business partners are that open with private conversations?
The worst thing that comes out of this is that more and more people are turned off by the shit that goes on in esports. Both parties are very involved in the scene, but all this is going to do is create divisions and where does it end up? Take loses viewership from the people on TB's side (HSC/ATC are amazing for the scene, especially in a time where tournaments are so scarce), TB/Genna/Axiom lose some respect from the people on Take's side (Shoutcraft, keeping the grassroots NA scene on it's last leg), most likely people working in the scene will start to slowly edge towards one side or another, and Genna has stepped down from managing Axiom Miscommunication is the root of all this, and it's a shame that it's caused all this.
On August 16 2013 14:22 Abradix1 wrote: TaKe has all right to complain if you post non-public information about his deal with Acer online, because essentially Acer now got bad publicity because you were bitching about how little money they were willing to give.
Except that Acer said they didn't mind what was posted.
They're sponsoring events to get people to like Acer, not so the entire Biscuit family and following can hate them for not paying for your team to fly over. That might not have been your intent, but it is what happened.
Except that Genna & TB made it clear that they don't and never blamed Acer.
As for the whole "private conversation" thing; IMO it's the internet - if you put something out there then you should be prepared for the possibility that it will be made publicly available. As far as I can tell TaKe never said anything that could be interpreted badly (before the legal threats), and to me it showed him in very good light. If he was upset that it got posted, then ok, that's his prerogative, but legal threats were both unfounded and unnecessary, and as I've said he should have been prepared that it could go public.
On August 16 2013 14:17 BroOd wrote: You know what would be so refreshing? If both parties could sort this privately while publicly apologizing for turning it into a spectacle in the first place. Save 10 pages of bickering and refuting this and that, save one more shovel of shit on the pile, and surprise everyone in the community by acting like business-minded individuals. I'm sure all players involved with both parties will be grateful.
I wish this could happen but I don't think it will.
On August 16 2013 14:17 Nimic wrote: How can TB possibly have the time to run the team like that? Besides, isn't he repeatedly pointing out that he's terrible at organizing stuff, which is why he needs someone like Genna to do that part?
Also there's the issue of how to say things as a prominent person. A good majority of TB's comments in the past would have been far more acceptable had he not been such a prominent member of the community, and thus put on a pedestal and expected to be a little more perfect than everyone else. In order to fit his new role, he's going to have to tone down the aggression by a TON while simultaneously shouldering the massive spike in stress that broke down his wife... in addition to his responsibilities as a professional Youtuber. Plan B would be to avoid commenting entirely. Come to think of it, that should be Plan A. If TB ever becomes consistently involved in the community and PC, I'll have to call the Canadian embassy because obviously he's been replaced by his evil twin. Or good twin.
On August 16 2013 14:19 Aylear wrote: TB's thoughts on Genna's retirement went mostly unnoticed in this thread, but it really is superb and everyone should listen to it.
Sanctimony in stereo guys, worth a listen just for that.
The one positive is he promises to take a step back from TL/reddit and twitter now so at least he might stop putting his foot in his mouth all the time.
Maybe he'll put it in your ass now.
The dude is trying to give you a glimpse of the toll team management has taken, and you respond with this. You're one of the types of persons he's talking about in that clip.
On August 16 2013 14:19 Aylear wrote: TB's thoughts on Genna's retirement went mostly unnoticed in this thread, but it really is superb and everyone should listen to it.
Sanctimony in stereo guys, worth a listen just for that.
The one positive is he promises to take a step back from TL/reddit and twitter now so at least he might stop putting his foot in his mouth all the time.
If I don't have to read retarded shit from you guys then it'll probably be the best thing that's ever happened to me.
On August 16 2013 14:19 Aylear wrote: TB's thoughts on Genna's retirement went mostly unnoticed in this thread, but it really is superb and everyone should listen to it.
Sanctimony in stereo guys, worth a listen just for that.
The one positive is he promises to take a step back from TL/reddit and twitter now so at least he might stop putting his foot in his mouth all the time.
If I don't have to read retarded shit from you guys then it'll probably be the best thing that's ever happened to me.
See it's comments like that that got IdrA in trouble. I realise that the "you guys" was intended to be specific, but it can easily be misinterpreted that you're shitting on all SC2 fans. You're really going to have to be careful now that you're a team manager - it's now going to reflect on your team and your players, not just you.
So Take goes from being "a great guy" who made what seemed to me a pretty damned sincere effort to try to help figure out a solution to this mess to suddenly ESPORTS VILLAIN!!!!!!
Something doesn't really track here...
Anyway, I'm getting real tired of all this dirty laundry being aired on social media sites around esports teams. It makes everything look completely unprofessional, and just makes it seem like no one knows what the hell they are doing. In the "real" world businesses have disagreements and spats all the time, but it hardly ever gets into a "he said she said" shitfest on a forum/twitter somewhere.
I understand that maybe esports is still in its infancy from a business perspective and there's lots of intrigue or whatever going on behind the scenes, but you know what? Boo fucking who. It's really time to stop handling situations like this.
In TB's own words: "So eSports is plagued with incompetence, fragile egos, backroom bullshit, people out for themselves and more concerned with saving face. I just want to make that abundantly clear for those who didn't know. Similar I'd imagine to most entertainment industries." Yeah, and it's handled behind closed doors for the most part, professionally.
I'm just sick of the way people treat this "business" like it's fucking high school drama.
This should not be a factor in sorting this out. Neither the fans of the savior of american sc2 or take's fans are contributing much to this discussion, all they say is basically (supposed) unprofessionalism vs. (supposed) threats of lawsuits.
Just kind of ironic that TB wants to unveil the bad stuff going on in esport while joyfully claiming his title as #1 mischief maker. And Takes threat being so over the top... I wonder if he read the earlier threads and felt...bad.
The first mistake made here was posting PRIVATE messages PUBLICLY without any prior consent or notification to the parties involved. TaKe had no real "weight" to his threat. It's a skype conversation, and if you are seriously posting even more PRIVATE messages publicly even after being told not to post them, then the blame for starting said drama is on you.
Competely unprofessional.
ps. I've always enjoyed the down-to-earth feel of HSC anyway.
So Axiom/Genna and TaKe sides both have miscommunication that leads to Axiom not participating. Nothing major here, happens all the time in business. Next step is Axiom throwing TaKe infront of the bus, posting private business messages on a internet forum portraying them as the "innocent" side while their only motivation to do so is polish their image. Maybe their reasons was that "we are not participating anymore so might aswell portray us in better light". Maybe she was naieve.
They dont even consider that TaKe was oblivious to their mistake, and probably had buffered Acer that "really famous TB and his succesfull team is participating and it will give us a lot of publicity" to increase Acer contribution to the tournament. Then out of the blue he gets informed they wont participate, then post their private messages and portray him in bad light. Now he lost a major team in the tournament, got screwed over by selfish motives and got trouble with his main sponsor.
Maybe if TotalBiscuit looked from TaKes eyes he would be less mad about words said in anger.
If I don't have to read retarded shit from you guys then it'll probably be the best thing that's ever happened to me.
Oh and it's in mono.
Wind your neck in mr team owner, or you will have to send all those Korean boys back to Korea without a team. Cause whos going to sponsor a team owned and managed by a loud mouth who outwardly disrespects anyone in the community who questions his decisions and attitude.
Id be sending emails or getting Sir Scoots or Nazgul on skype asap to learn how to manage a team without it combusting into a fireball under the weight of your inability to remove your foot from your mouth.
People like you Idra and Destiny always think you're untouchable right up until you are touched then it all ends it a big ball of flames.
If I don't have to read retarded shit from you guys then it'll probably be the best thing that's ever happened to me.
Oh and it's in mono.
Wind your neck in mr team owner, or you will have to send all those Korean boys back to Korea without a team. Cause whos going to sponsor a team owned and managed by a loud mouth who outwardly disrespects anyone in the community who questions his decisions and attitude.
Id be sending emails or getting Sir Scoots or Nazgul on skype asap to learn how to manage a team without it combusting into a fireball under the weight of your inability to remove your foot from your mouth.
People like you Idra and Destiny always think you're untouchable right up until you are touched then it all ends it a big ball of flames.
lol that's exactly why they're going to sponsor him
I'll be the proverbial drop in the ocean, I realize, but I'll say that TB and Genna, when I've heard them speak on the topic of esports business, have been really refreshing. Their only real error as i see it has been expecting to communicate meaningfully with the 'community'. Reddit and the TL forums are a shitshow of immaturity and stupidity, and meaningful communication in these channels is futile. I avoid these places because i love sc and want to avoid being poisoned by this 'community'.
On August 16 2013 14:53 Terran1234 wrote: So Axiom/Genna and TaKe sides both have miscommunication that leads to Axiom not participating. Nothing major here, happens all the time in business. Next step is Axiom throwing TaKe infront of the bus, posting private business messages on a internet forum portraying them as the "innocent" side while their only motivation to do so is polish their image. Maybe their reasons was that "we are not participating anymore so might aswell portray us in better light". Maybe she was naieve.
They dont even consider that TaKe was oblivious to their mistake, and probably had buffered Acer that "really famous TB and his succesfull team is participating and it will give us a lot of publicity" to increase Acer contribution to the tournament. Then out of the blue he gets informed they wont participate, then post their private messages and portray him in bad light. Now he lost a major team in the tournament, got screwed over by selfish motives and got trouble with his main sponsor.
Maybe if TotalBiscuit looked from TaKes eyes he would be less mad about words said in anger.
The only people that could possibly believe Take was thrown under the bus by Gennas post with the chatlogs are people that didn't bother to read it. There's nothing in that post that makes Acer or Take look bad, in fact quite the opposite. The original statement was causing confusion and people were lashing out, the second post was meant to clarify the situation and share the facts to show how it could have possibly got to that point. Acer looked GOOD in that post, so did Take. Sure, mistakes were made on the communication front but that post showed that all parties had worked really hard to try and solve the situation. Axiom was getting crucified over it for no apparent reason and Gennas duty as manager was to do what she could to alleviate that. She did exactly what any other team owner would have done in that situation, tried to clear the air.
As we have seen though, the reason why we're dishonest with the community is because apparently they can't handle the truth and it causes more problems than it solves. You guys crave openness and detailed statements but lose your shit when you get them? You demand detailed explanations from people like MLG when they make statements like "Hey, we're not doing SC2 at Columbus"? This is why you don't get them, because if you found out everything you'd lose your shit.
Thanks for everything you did for the scene Genna. Your efforts are appreciated. If you don't enjoy being a teammanager anymore, then it surely is the right decision to stop. It would be nice if it was for other reasons, but that's the way it is.
As for all the drama-mongers in this thread. No need to pitchfork anybody imho. Take shouldn't have threatened with legal action, but when you get pissed off, sometime you say the wrong things. Acer did nothing wrong. They are still an awesome company for helping create great events and sponsoring an awesome team.
I feel bad for TaKe. He made efforts to help out Genna for her team to attend the ATC (from her previous blog). And then she posts private messages to the public without consent. Yeah no suprise why he is mad.
On August 16 2013 15:01 Cubu wrote: I feel bad for TaKe. He made efforts to help out Genna for her team to attend the ATC (from her previous blog). And then she posts private messages to the public without consent. Yeah no suprise why he is mad.
Everybody knows how good TaKe was, trying to make the offline finals work for Axiom, because of Genna's first blog. Now, everybody knows about TaKe's "legal threats" thanks to her second blog.
On August 16 2013 15:01 Cubu wrote: I feel bad for TaKe. He made efforts to help out Genna for her team to attend the ATC (from her previous blog). And then she posts private messages to the public without consent. Yeah no suprise why he is mad.
Everybody knows how good TaKe was, trying to make the offline finals work for Axiom, because of Genna's first blog. Now, everybody knows about TaKe's "legal threats" thanks to her second blog.
lets think about the means rather than end in this case. Do you find it acceptable when someone posts a private business conversation to the public without consent?
Also people saying that TaKe threatened to sue, read the OP in full.
100% Behind TaKe. Can't believe Genna is this immature. And shame on TB & Genna for not having thick skins when willfully partaking in an "industry" (can we even call SC2 eSports an industry given how unprofessional most of its members are?) where having a thick skin is absolutely mandatory for any public figure.
I hope this is the last I hear of Genna in this scene.
On August 16 2013 15:29 Roqshu wrote: What Genna Bain did was unforgivable and a betrayal in mutual respect. Now she has to take the consequences and step down from her position.
But TB as the new Manager for Axiom? I'm afraid Axiom players need to look for a new team.
I think its honestly a shame to see her go. Her approach to eSports was in many ways what was needed to direct the scene in a positive direction - and enocourage organizations to preform in a more professional manner.
People can say what they will about the incident involving the posting of conversations, but the reality is that people in any aspect of any industry often will make statements public that contain topics being desputed - or there is an incorrect understanding of a topic ie. Wikileaks articles containing information about actuality rather than media spins.
I hope she decides to come back in one form or another eventually
I'm sorry to see Genna go, although I'm sure TB can keep Axiom rolling at least half as good, and that's enough to be a successful team. Having Genna's approach to the various crises and public relations disasters was healthy and refreshing. But perhaps the scene wasn't ready for it.
I vote to have Incontrol do all the talking for absolutely everyone in the esports scene. They just submit what they want to say to him, and he'll say it out loud through a PR filter. That should solve/hide all problems for a while.
While I feel that much of this drama could have been avoided by both parties waiting until they were no longer angry to send messages to each other, my faith in Axiom's pro-transparency, uh axiom, remains unshaken.
I hope that Genna changes her mind at some point and returns to the team, or at least to esports as a whole. I don't think the community fully recognizes just how badly change is needed at this point in order to develop a sustainable industry.
wtf Take... Never really liked Genna's way of handling things, but I guess that's due to personal preference... But trying to sue her for something like that? That's a nice dick move :/
Good luck in the future, whatever you may choose to do!
On August 16 2013 15:43 Creager wrote: wtf Take... Never really liked Genna's way of handling things, but I guess that's due to personal preference... But trying to sue her for something like that? That's a nice dick move :/
Good luck in the future, whatever you may choose to do!
he didn't try to sue, stop blowing things out of proportion
On August 16 2013 13:10 Bagi wrote: Feels like overreaction. The childish "fuck Take"-stuff isn't helping anyone either.
Yeah man we should totally just hug it out after he threatened my wife and the team with legal action.
Is this the first time you got threatened with legal action? My mom deals with that daily at her work with clients. Grow up. I got threatened with legal action and racism a couple days ago. You know what I did? I played it cool, stayed calm, and finished my transaction with the buyer.
News just in, eSports is not the same as working at a supermarket.
On August 16 2013 13:10 Bagi wrote: Feels like overreaction. The childish "fuck Take"-stuff isn't helping anyone either.
Yeah man we should totally just hug it out after he threatened my wife and the team with legal action.
Is this the first time you got threatened with legal action? My mom deals with that daily at her work with clients. Grow up. I got threatened with legal action and racism a couple days ago. You know what I did? I played it cool, stayed calm, and finished my transaction with the buyer.
News just in, eSports is not the same as working at a supermarket.
News just in, you're a douche.
And a giant hypocrite but that is just an established way of creating a brand around oneself so that's fine. Lot's of folks did it before and will keep doing it. Anyways after checking reddit - entirely hilarious that drama train but regardless the appropriate thing to say here should be get better so ...get better and hf.
Harse descision if ya ask me Jenna. Yes, i agree it wasnt nice to post that, its a breach in privacy and this is never pleasant when ur on the other side (believe me I know). But we all make certain mistakes and i feel u or gehlen stepping down will not help Take, Acer or Axiom in any way. Just all say sorry and move on
But anyways.. good luck have fun
p.s. i believe jenna is better for axiom then TB becuz she really likes the players... that love for these guys says it all. Plz stay jenna.
It's not like the guy had any basis to sue her anyway, unless he got her to sign an NDA.
If anything, it was him who broke Acer's NDA and it's him who they should be mad at. Him threatening to sue her is really just him throwing a tantrum because he didn't take proper legal measures when revealing secrets to people.
On August 16 2013 15:29 Roqshu wrote: What Genna Bain did was unforgivable and a betrayal in mutual respect. Now she has to take the consequences and step down from her position.
You uh didn't actually read any of her stepping down post did you?
On August 16 2013 14:19 Aylear wrote: TB's thoughts on Genna's retirement went mostly unnoticed in this thread, but it really is superb and everyone should listen to it.
Sanctimony in stereo guys, worth a listen just for that.
The one positive is he promises to take a step back from TL/reddit and twitter now so at least he might stop putting his foot in his mouth all the time.
If I don't have to read retarded shit from you guys then it'll probably be the best thing that's ever happened to me.
Oh and it's in mono.
And if the non-retarded folk don't have to see your retarded responses back it will be the best thing that can happen for us. Log out.
[6:51:49 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: i guess if acer gonna read this they will get mad [6:51:54 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: that you posted it online [6:51:55 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: 10 times [6:52:02 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: more than u can ever imagine [6:52:14 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: cause there you let acer look very bad
So let me get this straight:
Misc. issues cause Axiom to not be able to attend an event. Genna posts announcement. Minor (MINOR) disgruntlement from community. Genna seeks to defend herself and her team, posting private chats of her and TaKe. TaKe sees these, and realizes it could make Acer look bad, and in this money-starved business, that's the worst thing you could do. TaKe gets mad, writes angrily to Genna. Genna again posts a private conversation and calls it quits.
At the end of the day, TaKe was just paranoid about making a sponsor look bad, I don't think that's at all problematic. Yeah, the legal threats were dumb, but Genna's posting them publicily to try to crucify TaKe seems worse.
Sad to see. You'll be missed, you were a really positive and powerful force in eSports. You seemed to bring a lot of business sense to the table that many organizations are lacking (or at least don't seem to show or talk about very often).
Good luck in life! I'll still be rooting for Axiom!
On August 16 2013 14:17 BroOd wrote: You know what would be so refreshing? If both parties could sort this privately while publicly apologizing for turning it into a spectacle in the first place. Save 10 pages of bickering and refuting this and that, save one more shovel of shit on the pile, and surprise everyone in the community by acting like business-minded individuals. I'm sure all players involved with both parties will be grateful.
This post is so good it made the front page of reddit, but I have to say I don't think Take has to publicly apologize for anything. He did absolutely nothing to turn this into a public spectacle, if anything he wanted the opposite.
GL Genna and you really deserve to have some proper fun after all you've been through! Hope you get better soon and just gotta say I have lots of respect for you and TB, even though I may not agree with everything you say nor was I a follower of your team.
Pretty disappointed with TaKe though, HSC is one of the few SC2 tournaments I actually go out of my way to watch anymore, and after this I'm not sure if I want to continue...
On August 16 2013 13:36 theking1 wrote: I do not think this is much of a surprise comming form the totalbiscuit-genna couple.They invested some money into sc2 but after failing to obtain big profits(and i am only quoting tb twitter right here) they sort of realize that esports is not exactly the thing that could bring in profits and they decide to slowly leave by throwing dirt at everyone that disagrees with them,This is happening in the context in which totalbiscuit is threatening to stop casting sc2 (like anyone forced him in the first place).
I find quite obnoxious that they are insulting Take who has provided the community with one of the best and most entertaining tournament s there is HSC which ran for 7 editions and made sc2 players look more human.Also take has been with sc2 from the very beggining.In terms of what the sc2 community is concerned I would much rateher prefer to have take and see the next HSCups than hear about totalbiscuit whinning and moaning all day long.
And this is another thing I disliked form the very first day about the totalbiscuit jenna-couple:the constant whinning and moaning.Everybody knows that in the esports industry you have to deal with unpleasant situations.LiquidNAzgul knows about this,alex garfield,sir scoots,day9 and countless other team owners and people involved know about this yet none of them moan and complain as much as totalbiscuit and genna.I mean literally you would think they are the only ones having issues and everyone else doesn't.Totalbiscuit is probably the only teamowner who constantly throws the 100k $ number on twitter to remind the community how much he invested.I never hear Nazgul say on twitter:"Man I invested probably a million dollars since bw in the sc scene you all should not say anything bad about me".Get over it.You are not more entitled than any other team owners who put money into the scen.If esports,and especially sc2 does not make you a profit then for gods sake move one.
I would not be surprised that in a couple of months after tb and genna decide to leave sc2 permanently they will write an essay on reddit simmilar to what destiny did when he switched to lol saying how bad sc2 is and how much the community sucks.On the long run tb will hurt the sc2 proscene more than they will help.
And the excuse about bashing is absolutely pathetic.All people in esports get ot deal with anonymus trolls.So what?Noone has quoted them as the reason for baciing off esports.And bashing Take out of all people is absolutely disgenuite.Oh and by the way Take has not taken any legal action.He might have just been upset and trolled on skype.
In conclusion:I understand that people can not make large amounts of money of sc2.But if you really wana quit the scen do not do it destiny style by throwing trash at everyhting.instead be more humble about it.Nobody blames you.
This. TB should have supported Genna more, instead he draged her down with his own personal problems. Really sad for Genna. But with an immature partner, i saw this coming many moons ago.
On August 16 2013 14:17 BroOd wrote: You know what would be so refreshing? If both parties could sort this privately while publicly apologizing for turning it into a spectacle in the first place. Save 10 pages of bickering and refuting this and that, save one more shovel of shit on the pile, and surprise everyone in the community by acting like business-minded individuals. I'm sure all players involved with both parties will be grateful.
This post is so good it made the front page of reddit, but I have to say I don't think Take has to publicly apologize for anything. He did absolutely nothing to turn this into a public spectacle, if anything he wanted the opposite.
So good it made it on Reddit. Please allow me to detach myself of your notion of "good".
It was already a public spectacle because it's public information that a team will not fly to the ATC finals. Everything that came later was damage control.
[6:51:49 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: i guess if acer gonna read this they will get mad [6:51:54 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: that you posted it online [6:51:55 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: 10 times [6:52:02 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: more than u can ever imagine [6:52:14 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: cause there you let acer look very bad
So let me get this straight:
Misc. issues cause Axiom to not be able to attend an event. Genna posts announcement. Minor (MINOR) disgruntlement from community. Genna seeks to defend herself and her team, posting private chats of her and TaKe. TaKe sees these, and realizes it could make Acer look bad, and in this money-starved business, that's the worst thing you could do. TaKe gets mad, writes angrily to Genna. Genna again posts a private conversation and calls it quits.
At the end of the day, TaKe was just paranoid about making a sponsor look bad, I don't think that's at all problematic. Yeah, the legal threats were dumb, but Genna's posting them publicily to try to crucify TaKe seems worse.
1. lol.
2. No, he thought it could make Acer look bad, which it in no way could.
3. That was not her intention.
4. The more I read from Genna and TB the more I love the both of them. I will support them both, as well as Axiom itself, until the end.
On August 16 2013 14:17 BroOd wrote: You know what would be so refreshing? If both parties could sort this privately while publicly apologizing for turning it into a spectacle in the first place. Save 10 pages of bickering and refuting this and that, save one more shovel of shit on the pile, and surprise everyone in the community by acting like business-minded individuals. I'm sure all players involved with both parties will be grateful.
This post is so good it made the front page of reddit, but I have to say I don't think Take has to publicly apologize for anything. He did absolutely nothing to turn this into a public spectacle, if anything he wanted the opposite.
So good it made it on Reddit. Please allow me to detach myself of your notion of "good".
It was already a public spectacle because it's public information that a team will not fly to the ATC finals. Everything that came later was damage control.
This blog is literally the opposite of demage control.
[6:51:49 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: i guess if acer gonna read this they will get mad [6:51:54 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: that you posted it online [6:51:55 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: 10 times [6:52:02 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: more than u can ever imagine [6:52:14 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: cause there you let acer look very bad
So let me get this straight:
Misc. issues cause Axiom to not be able to attend an event. Genna posts announcement. Minor (MINOR) disgruntlement from community. Genna seeks to defend herself and her team, posting private chats of her and TaKe. TaKe sees these, and realizes it could make Acer look bad, and in this money-starved business, that's the worst thing you could do. TaKe gets mad, writes angrily to Genna. Genna again posts a private conversation and calls it quits.
At the end of the day, TaKe was just paranoid about making a sponsor look bad, I don't think that's at all problematic. Yeah, the legal threats were dumb, but Genna's posting them publicily to try to crucify TaKe seems worse.
1. lol.
2. No, he thought it could make Acer look bad, which it in no way could.
3. That was not her intention.
4. The more I read from Genna and TB the more I love the both of them. I will support them both, as well as Axiom itself, until the end.
So you think it was a good idea to post private business conversations to make you and your organization look good in the communities eyes at the expense of another individual and at the expense of a sponsor?
You support that, right? That's totally cool with you?
[6:51:49 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: i guess if acer gonna read this they will get mad [6:51:54 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: that you posted it online [6:51:55 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: 10 times [6:52:02 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: more than u can ever imagine [6:52:14 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: cause there you let acer look very bad
So let me get this straight:
Misc. issues cause Axiom to not be able to attend an event. Genna posts announcement. Minor (MINOR) disgruntlement from community. Genna seeks to defend herself and her team, posting private chats of her and TaKe. TaKe sees these, and realizes it could make Acer look bad, and in this money-starved business, that's the worst thing you could do. TaKe gets mad, writes angrily to Genna. Genna again posts a private conversation and calls it quits.
At the end of the day, TaKe was just paranoid about making a sponsor look bad, I don't think that's at all problematic. Yeah, the legal threats were dumb, but Genna's posting them publicily to try to crucify TaKe seems worse.
1. lol.
2. No, he thought it could make Acer look bad, which it in no way could.
3. That was not her intention.
4. The more I read from Genna and TB the more I love the both of them. I will support them both, as well as Axiom itself, until the end.
So you think it was a good idea to post private business conversations to make you and your organization look good in the communities eyes at the expense of another individual and at the expense of a sponsor?
You support that, right? That's totally cool with you?
I don't know if I agree with posting private business conversations, but I know that they WERENT AT THE EXPENSE OF TAKE OR ACER. The posts MADE THEM LOOK REALLY GOOD AND HELPFUL.
EDIT: sorry, other than the "hes trying to take legal action for no reason, look." part they made take look good.
On August 16 2013 14:17 BroOd wrote: You know what would be so refreshing? If both parties could sort this privately while publicly apologizing for turning it into a spectacle in the first place. Save 10 pages of bickering and refuting this and that, save one more shovel of shit on the pile, and surprise everyone in the community by acting like business-minded individuals. I'm sure all players involved with both parties will be grateful.
This post is so good it made the front page of reddit, but I have to say I don't think Take has to publicly apologize for anything. He did absolutely nothing to turn this into a public spectacle, if anything he wanted the opposite.
So good it made it on Reddit. Please allow me to detach myself of your notion of "good".
It was already a public spectacle because it's public information that a team will not fly to the ATC finals. Everything that came later was damage control.
This blog is literally the opposite of demage control.
I actually felt the first blog was already making the situation worse (after the original announcement - once the additional details were added).
This blog is the equivalent of raging to someone on ladder, quickly ignoring them and pause quitting followed by having your friend spam them too.
I love Genna and Axiom. I'm so sad about this, but definitely understand why she would choose to. I wish you and your husband and your team the very best. I felt the previous blog post showed everyone in a good light and was very up front and honest. Takes response makes me think he didn't actually read it, and definitely think his response was way more hostile then it should have been.
Germany is just starting to wake up. If you think the backlash against Genna and TB is big right now, just wait until Germany's/Europe's sc2 crowds chime in. You ain't seen nothing yet. They are fiercely loyal to take, especially when he is in the right.
On August 16 2013 13:10 Bagi wrote: Feels like overreaction. The childish "fuck Take"-stuff isn't helping anyone either.
Yeah man we should totally just hug it out after he threatened my wife and the team with legal action.
Is this the first time you got threatened with legal action? My mom deals with that daily at her work with clients. Grow up. I got threatened with legal action and racism a couple days ago. You know what I did? I played it cool, stayed calm, and finished my transaction with the buyer.
News just in, eSports is not the same as working at a supermarket.
I didn't think you could come off as more of an insufferable ass than you already were but here we are.
I don't blame her. She honestly sounds like one of the nicest and most supportive people...in addition to being a good mom and wife and friend.
Furthermore, I just want to say: I think it's embarrassing to threaten to sue someone over such trivial matters, and the fact that such a small community as SC2 isn't completely all-out for one another is sad. When there's in-fighting, especially in small populations, you're gonna' have a bad time.
[6:51:49 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: i guess if acer gonna read this they will get mad [6:51:54 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: that you posted it online [6:51:55 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: 10 times [6:52:02 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: more than u can ever imagine [6:52:14 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: cause there you let acer look very bad
So let me get this straight:
Misc. issues cause Axiom to not be able to attend an event. Genna posts announcement. Minor (MINOR) disgruntlement from community. Genna seeks to defend herself and her team, posting private chats of her and TaKe. TaKe sees these, and realizes it could make Acer look bad, and in this money-starved business, that's the worst thing you could do. TaKe gets mad, writes angrily to Genna. Genna again posts a private conversation and calls it quits.
At the end of the day, TaKe was just paranoid about making a sponsor look bad, I don't think that's at all problematic. Yeah, the legal threats were dumb, but Genna's posting them publicily to try to crucify TaKe seems worse.
1. lol.
2. No, he thought it could make Acer look bad, which it in no way could.
3. That was not her intention.
4. The more I read from Genna and TB the more I love the both of them. I will support them both, as well as Axiom itself, until the end.
So you think it was a good idea to post private business conversations to make you and your organization look good in the communities eyes at the expense of another individual and at the expense of a sponsor?
You support that, right? That's totally cool with you?
It wasn't at the expense of another individual or the expense of a sponsor. Did you actually read the blog? Genna mentioned several times that she thought TaKe was awesome and that he was going out of his way to help out their team, and that in no way was it Acer's fault.
Dennis : okay i see but lets be honest thier chances doing pretty okay at the finale are there if we cant find a deal at all it would be the worst solution right? the point is i dont have big budgets that i can pay from my own pocket 3-4-5 flights
Genna : Worst case scenario, we forfeit and Millenium takes our slot.
Dennis : but before a team is not coming i really wanna help and even willing to pay some of my money into it thats why i ask i just try to find options
Genna : I'll have to talk to John about it to see if we have anything leftover from our sponsor pool for the month.
Dennis : okay and i will talk to acer about it if they would cover another 1500+ i think i am willing to help to on top
I take it all back its clear Take is the real evil person in this situation.
Guy acts as reasonably as someone can > gets upset about private conversations being made public > gets jumped on by fans of the most toxic duo in e-sports.
Couldn't agree more, he offers to help out in any way he can, and then he gets stabbed in the back. (maybe that's overly dramatic) He gets upset and posts something that vaguely hints to legal action and suddenly it's all as if he was suing them already. Don't do anything that can make sponsors look bad in this industry because it is simply too fragile for pulling shit like that. It's like someone said a while back on whatever talk show I was watching, we can't just say no papa johns we don't want your sponsorship until you are better to your employees.
Wow, this has been a mess of a situation from both sides. Regardless, Genna has contributed enormously to esports, and I'm sad to see her step down. I'm sure TB will do an amazing job with the team!
On August 16 2013 13:36 theking1 wrote: I do not think this is much of a surprise comming form the totalbiscuit-genna couple.They invested some money into sc2 but after failing to obtain big profits(and i am only quoting tb twitter right here) they sort of realize that esports is not exactly the thing that could bring in profits and they decide to slowly leave by throwing dirt at everyone that disagrees with them,This is happening in the context in which totalbiscuit is threatening to stop casting sc2 (like anyone forced him in the first place).
This is the most wrong thing I ever read on this website.
if you can't keep your mouth shut about some private conversations you have no place in the world of business and nobody will be doing business with you in the future. good thing for axiom that she stepped down.
[6:51:49 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: i guess if acer gonna read this they will get mad [6:51:54 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: that you posted it online [6:51:55 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: 10 times [6:52:02 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: more than u can ever imagine [6:52:14 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: cause there you let acer look very bad
So let me get this straight:
Misc. issues cause Axiom to not be able to attend an event. Genna posts announcement. Minor (MINOR) disgruntlement from community. Genna seeks to defend herself and her team, posting private chats of her and TaKe. TaKe sees these, and realizes it could make Acer look bad, and in this money-starved business, that's the worst thing you could do. TaKe gets mad, writes angrily to Genna. Genna again posts a private conversation and calls it quits.
At the end of the day, TaKe was just paranoid about making a sponsor look bad, I don't think that's at all problematic. Yeah, the legal threats were dumb, but Genna's posting them publicily to try to crucify TaKe seems worse.
1. lol.
2. No, he thought it could make Acer look bad, which it in no way could.
3. That was not her intention.
4. The more I read from Genna and TB the more I love the both of them. I will support them both, as well as Axiom itself, until the end.
So you think it was a good idea to post private business conversations to make you and your organization look good in the communities eyes at the expense of another individual and at the expense of a sponsor?
You support that, right? That's totally cool with you?
It wasn't at the expense of another individual or the expense of a sponsor. Did you actually read the blog? Genna mentioned several times that she thought TaKe was awesome and that he was going out of his way to help out their team, and that in no way was it Acer's fault.
No matter her intent, she should have afforded take the professional courtesy to notify and receive his consent to post the private conversations to the public.
It's like Nazgul let's TB know in private that he received 50k from a sponsor. That's good news right? But that doesn't give TB the right to tell the public about the content of the conversation he had with nazgul without notification and consent.
On August 16 2013 14:17 BroOd wrote: You know what would be so refreshing? If both parties could sort this privately while publicly apologizing for turning it into a spectacle in the first place. Save 10 pages of bickering and refuting this and that, save one more shovel of shit on the pile, and surprise everyone in the community by acting like business-minded individuals. I'm sure all players involved with both parties will be grateful.
This post is so good it made the front page of reddit, but I have to say I don't think Take has to publicly apologize for anything. He did absolutely nothing to turn this into a public spectacle, if anything he wanted the opposite.
So good it made it on Reddit. Please allow me to detach myself of your notion of "good".
It was already a public spectacle because it's public information that a team will not fly to the ATC finals. Everything that came later was damage control.
This blog is literally the opposite of damage control.
How should I put this, it is not literally the opposite of damage control. It is literally damage control. There might be new ripples of damage from the damage control, but that does not change what it is. It's like calling cooking that results in a burned meal, burning food. The entirety of the time you prepared your tomatoes, and chopped the onions and whatnot is not burning food. It's cooking. Stop trying to twist words to make your one-liners sound better. Write proper, succinct posts.
At times like these (about every other day, right?) makes you really realize what a joke this eSports business really is. We should all just call it quits and be done with this shit. Let's pick a sport that has actual professionals working in it.
If for some reason TB wants to continue to run the team, I think that he should hire a PR person to deal with all of this. Now that he is the head/face of the team more than before, he can't be out here on TL or on Reddit slashing out at people and telling them to fuck off. That'll just destroy the team in a heartbeat.
Feels like most of the people in here didn't even read the posts and are blaming Take for everything, it's just silly. Partial blame goes to everyone involved. To me it seems that Take was just trying to protect Acer. Genna should have taken a page out of the EG's PR-book and just released some bullshit pr-language statement saying absolutely nothing at all, because that is professionalism. Posting private emails/skype logs is not.
Good luck in whatever you end up doing Genna. Perhaps you should think of something completely different to do, if you can't handle the stress that well. I don't blame you at all, I couldn't handle it either.
On August 16 2013 13:36 theking1 wrote: I do not think this is much of a surprise comming form the totalbiscuit-genna couple.They invested some money into sc2 but after failing to obtain big profits(and i am only quoting tb twitter right here) they sort of realize that esports is not exactly the thing that could bring in profits and they decide to slowly leave by throwing dirt at everyone that disagrees with them,This is happening in the context in which totalbiscuit is threatening to stop casting sc2 (like anyone forced him in the first place).
I find quite obnoxious that they are insulting Take who has provided the community with one of the best and most entertaining tournament s there is HSC which ran for 7 editions and made sc2 players look more human.Also take has been with sc2 from the very beggining.In terms of what the sc2 community is concerned I would much rateher prefer to have take and see the next HSCups than hear about totalbiscuit whinning and moaning all day long.
And this is another thing I disliked form the very first day about the totalbiscuit jenna-couple:the constant whinning and moaning.Everybody knows that in the esports industry you have to deal with unpleasant situations.LiquidNAzgul knows about this,alex garfield,sir scoots,day9 and countless other team owners and people involved know about this yet none of them moan and complain as much as totalbiscuit and genna.I mean literally you would think they are the only ones having issues and everyone else doesn't.Totalbiscuit is probably the only teamowner who constantly throws the 100k $ number on twitter to remind the community how much he invested.I never hear Nazgul say on twitter:"Man I invested probably a million dollars since bw in the sc scene you all should not say anything bad about me".Get over it.You are not more entitled than any other team owners who put money into the scen.If esports,and especially sc2 does not make you a profit then for gods sake move one.
I would not be surprised that in a couple of months after tb and genna decide to leave sc2 permanently they will write an essay on reddit simmilar to what destiny did when he switched to lol saying how bad sc2 is and how much the community sucks.On the long run tb will hurt the sc2 proscene more than they will help.
And the excuse about bashing is absolutely pathetic.All people in esports get ot deal with anonymus trolls.So what?Noone has quoted them as the reason for baciing off esports.And bashing Take out of all people is absolutely disgenuite.Oh and by the way Take has not taken any legal action.He might have just been upset and trolled on skype.
In conclusion:I understand that people can not make large amounts of money of sc2.But if you really wana quit the scen do not do it destiny style by throwing trash at everyhting.instead be more humble about it.Nobody blames you.
This. TB should have supported Genna more, instead he draged her down with his own personal problems. Really sad for Genna. But with an immature partner, i saw this coming many moons ago.
These posts make me sad... stay out of people's lifes you idiot!
Dennis : okay i see but lets be honest thier chances doing pretty okay at the finale are there if we cant find a deal at all it would be the worst solution right? the point is i dont have big budgets that i can pay from my own pocket 3-4-5 flights
Genna : Worst case scenario, we forfeit and Millenium takes our slot.
Dennis : but before a team is not coming i really wanna help and even willing to pay some of my money into it thats why i ask i just try to find options
Genna : I'll have to talk to John about it to see if we have anything leftover from our sponsor pool for the month.
Dennis : okay and i will talk to acer about it if they would cover another 1500+ i think i am willing to help to on top
I take it all back its clear Take is the real evil person in this situation.
Guy acts as reasonably as someone can > gets upset about private conversations being made public > gets jumped on by fans of the most toxic duo in e-sports.
Couldn't agree more, he offers to help out in any way he can, and then he gets stabbed in the back. (maybe that's overly dramatic) He gets upset and posts PRIVATELY MESSAGES something that vaguely hints to legal action and suddenly it's all as if he was suing them already. Don't do anything that can make sponsors look bad in this industry because it is simply too fragile for pulling shit like that. It's like someone said a while back on whatever talk show I was watching, we can't just say no papa johns we don't want your sponsorship until you are better to your employees.
Also, TaKe's comment about legal action could simply be questioning if it was legal for Genna to use his private messages publicly without his permission.
[6:51:49 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: i guess if acer gonna read this they will get mad [6:51:54 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: that you posted it online [6:51:55 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: 10 times [6:52:02 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: more than u can ever imagine [6:52:14 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: cause there you let acer look very bad
So let me get this straight:
Misc. issues cause Axiom to not be able to attend an event. Genna posts announcement. Minor (MINOR) disgruntlement from community. Genna seeks to defend herself and her team, posting private chats of her and TaKe. TaKe sees these, and realizes it could make Acer look bad, and in this money-starved business, that's the worst thing you could do. TaKe gets mad, writes angrily to Genna. Genna again posts a private conversation and calls it quits.
At the end of the day, TaKe was just paranoid about making a sponsor look bad, I don't think that's at all problematic. Yeah, the legal threats were dumb, but Genna's posting them publicily to try to crucify TaKe seems worse.
1. lol.
2. No, he thought it could make Acer look bad, which it in no way could.
3. That was not her intention.
4. The more I read from Genna and TB the more I love the both of them. I will support them both, as well as Axiom itself, until the end.
So you think it was a good idea to post private business conversations to make you and your organization look good in the communities eyes at the expense of another individual and at the expense of a sponsor?
You support that, right? That's totally cool with you?
Have you ever followed Axiom? They post this up for practically everything, which is why the team has so many fans. Did you see their blog post on why they ended up with Miya in the loser bracket?
If TaKe has a problem, he could've posted it up the same way and made the situation more transparent. That's what we (Axiom fans) like: the transparent way they detail their decisions. If there is more truth, the ball's in his court. If he wants to cover it up..... well he shouldn't have made threats of legal action which were probably going the way of his prior conversations.
If he expected this not to happen, well then he shouldn't have worked with people who do this for everything.
[6:51:49 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: i guess if acer gonna read this they will get mad [6:51:54 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: that you posted it online [6:51:55 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: 10 times [6:52:02 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: more than u can ever imagine [6:52:14 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: cause there you let acer look very bad
So let me get this straight:
Misc. issues cause Axiom to not be able to attend an event. Genna posts announcement. Minor (MINOR) disgruntlement from community. Genna seeks to defend herself and her team, posting private chats of her and TaKe. TaKe sees these, and realizes it could make Acer look bad, and in this money-starved business, that's the worst thing you could do. TaKe gets mad, writes angrily to Genna. Genna again posts a private conversation and calls it quits.
At the end of the day, TaKe was just paranoid about making a sponsor look bad, I don't think that's at all problematic. Yeah, the legal threats were dumb, but Genna's posting them publicily to try to crucify TaKe seems worse.
1. lol.
2. No, he thought it could make Acer look bad, which it in no way could.
3. That was not her intention.
4. The more I read from Genna and TB the more I love the both of them. I will support them both, as well as Axiom itself, until the end.
What would have happened if the logs just would not have been posted?
[6:51:49 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: i guess if acer gonna read this they will get mad [6:51:54 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: that you posted it online [6:51:55 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: 10 times [6:52:02 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: more than u can ever imagine [6:52:14 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: cause there you let acer look very bad
So let me get this straight:
Misc. issues cause Axiom to not be able to attend an event. Genna posts announcement. Minor (MINOR) disgruntlement from community. Genna seeks to defend herself and her team, posting private chats of her and TaKe. TaKe sees these, and realizes it could make Acer look bad, and in this money-starved business, that's the worst thing you could do. TaKe gets mad, writes angrily to Genna. Genna again posts a private conversation and calls it quits.
At the end of the day, TaKe was just paranoid about making a sponsor look bad, I don't think that's at all problematic. Yeah, the legal threats were dumb, but Genna's posting them publicily to try to crucify TaKe seems worse.
1. lol.
2. No, he thought it could make Acer look bad, which it in no way could.
3. That was not her intention.
4. The more I read from Genna and TB the more I love the both of them. I will support them both, as well as Axiom itself, until the end.
What would have happened if the logs just would not have been posted?
That is right .. nothing.
Except things were already happening before she posted the logs and made that blog, hence the need for it.
On August 16 2013 16:31 lolnice wrote: Wow, I can't believe this shit. Genna posting private stuff, and Dennis rightfully gets mad. Then she posts his reaction online again?! W-T-F
You owe TaKe an apology!
This is what I am saying. Not only does Genna post the private conversation once, but she does it again the SECOND time when Dennis already told her his misgivings about the first one.
We could call the first reveal of the private conversation a mistake/error in judgement, but then she does it again. Wtf???
On August 16 2013 16:19 ptbl wrote: Germany is just starting to wake up. If you think the backlash against Genna and TB is big right now, just wait until Germany's/Europe's sc2 crowds chime in. You ain't seen nothing yet. They are fiercely loyal to take, especially when he is in the right.
You mean like when they still shit on him for not having a Tattoo which he should get because he lost a bet?.
On August 16 2013 13:36 theking1 wrote: I do not think this is much of a surprise comming form the totalbiscuit-genna couple.They invested some money into sc2 but after failing to obtain big profits(and i am only quoting tb twitter right here) they sort of realize that esports is not exactly the thing that could bring in profits and they decide to slowly leave by throwing dirt at everyone that disagrees with them,This is happening in the context in which totalbiscuit is threatening to stop casting sc2 (like anyone forced him in the first place).
I find quite obnoxious that they are insulting Take who has provided the community with one of the best and most entertaining tournament s there is HSC which ran for 7 editions and made sc2 players look more human.Also take has been with sc2 from the very beggining.In terms of what the sc2 community is concerned I would much rateher prefer to have take and see the next HSCups than hear about totalbiscuit whinning and moaning all day long.
And this is another thing I disliked form the very first day about the totalbiscuit jenna-couple:the constant whinning and moaning.Everybody knows that in the esports industry you have to deal with unpleasant situations.LiquidNAzgul knows about this,alex garfield,sir scoots,day9 and countless other team owners and people involved know about this yet none of them moan and complain as much as totalbiscuit and genna.I mean literally you would think they are the only ones having issues and everyone else doesn't.Totalbiscuit is probably the only teamowner who constantly throws the 100k $ number on twitter to remind the community how much he invested.I never hear Nazgul say on twitter:"Man I invested probably a million dollars since bw in the sc scene you all should not say anything bad about me".Get over it.You are not more entitled than any other team owners who put money into the scen.If esports,and especially sc2 does not make you a profit then for gods sake move one.
I would not be surprised that in a couple of months after tb and genna decide to leave sc2 permanently they will write an essay on reddit simmilar to what destiny did when he switched to lol saying how bad sc2 is and how much the community sucks.On the long run tb will hurt the sc2 proscene more than they will help.
And the excuse about bashing is absolutely pathetic.All people in esports get ot deal with anonymus trolls.So what?Noone has quoted them as the reason for baciing off esports.And bashing Take out of all people is absolutely disgenuite.Oh and by the way Take has not taken any legal action.He might have just been upset and trolled on skype.
In conclusion:I understand that people can not make large amounts of money of sc2.But if you really wana quit the scen do not do it destiny style by throwing trash at everyhting.instead be more humble about it.Nobody blames you.
I agree with most of what you are saying, but why on earth are you so harsh about it? Everytime there is any kind of drama everyone is acting like the people involved are mass murderers and fans immediately take sites to throw trash at everyone not agreeing. While destroying all kinds of stuff in the progress.
On August 16 2013 16:31 lolnice wrote: Wow, I can't believe this shit. Genna posting private stuff, and Dennis rightfully gets mad. Then she posts his reaction online again?! W-T-F
You owe TaKe an apology!
This is what I am saying. Not only does Genna post the private conversation once, but she does it again the SECOND time when Dennis already told her his misgivings about the first one.
We could call the first reveal if the private conversation a mistake/error in judgement, but then she does it again. Wtf???
Likely because after he brought up legal action she stopped giving a shit about what he wanted, rather then just addressing the issue and asking she refrain from doing it in the future or even asking for an apology he escalated it drastically.
On August 16 2013 16:34 boxturtle wrote: Have you ever followed Axiom? They post this up for practically everything, which is why the team has so many fans. Did you see their blog post on why they ended up with Miya in the loser bracket?
If TaKe has a problem, he could've posted it up the same way and made the situation more transparent. That's what we (Axiom fans) like: the transparent way they detail their decisions. If there is more truth, the ball's in his court. If he wants to cover it up..... well he shouldn't have made threats of legal action which were probably going the way of his prior conversations.
If he expected this not to happen, well then he shouldn't have worked with people who do this for everything.
Must be the NSA propaganda getting through. Making everything private transparent is NOT okay.
On August 16 2013 16:31 lolnice wrote: Wow, I can't believe this shit. Genna posting private stuff, and Dennis rightfully gets mad. Then she posts his reaction online again?! W-T-F
You owe TaKe an apology!
This is what I am saying. Not only does Genna post the private conversation once, but she does it again the SECOND time when Dennis already told her his misgivings about the first one.
We could call the first reveal if the private conversation a mistake/error in judgement, but then she does it again. Wtf???
Likely because after he brought up legal action she stopped giving a shit about what he wanted, rather then just addressing the issue and asking she refrain from doing it in the future or even asking for an apology he escalated it drastically.
In which case the team is much better without her and this whole thing turned out great.
On August 16 2013 16:34 boxturtle wrote: Have you ever followed Axiom? They post this up for practically everything, which is why the team has so many fans. Did you see their blog post on why they ended up with Miya in the loser bracket?
If TaKe has a problem, he could've posted it up the same way and made the situation more transparent. That's what we (Axiom fans) like: the transparent way they detail their decisions. If there is more truth, the ball's in his court. If he wants to cover it up..... well he shouldn't have made threats of legal action which were probably going the way of his prior conversations.
If he expected this not to happen, well then he shouldn't have worked with people who do this for everything.
The reason why the team has so many fans has nothing to do with posting private skype logs/emails. They have a lot of fans because Totalbiscuit and ex-Slayers players have a lot of fans.
On August 16 2013 16:31 lolnice wrote: Wow, I can't believe this shit. Genna posting private stuff, and Dennis rightfully gets mad. Then she posts his reaction online again?! W-T-F
You owe TaKe an apology!
This is what I am saying. Not only does Genna post the private conversation once, but she does it again the SECOND time when Dennis already told her his misgivings about the first one.
We could call the first reveal if the private conversation a mistake/error in judgement, but then she does it again. Wtf???
Likely because after he brought up legal action she stopped giving a shit about what he wanted, rather then just addressing the issue and asking she refrain from doing it in the future or even asking for an apology he escalated it drastically.
In which case the team is much better without her and this whole thing turned out great.
If you actually believe the team and the scene are better off without her then I'm really not sure what to say to you because you're completely and utterly wrong.
On August 16 2013 16:31 lolnice wrote: Wow, I can't believe this shit. Genna posting private stuff, and Dennis rightfully gets mad. Then she posts his reaction online again?! W-T-F
You owe TaKe an apology!
This is what I am saying. Not only does Genna post the private conversation once, but she does it again the SECOND time when Dennis already told her his misgivings about the first one.
We could call the first reveal if the private conversation a mistake/error in judgement, but then she does it again. Wtf???
Likely because after he brought up legal action she stopped giving a shit about what he wanted, rather then just addressing the issue and asking she refrain from doing it in the future or even asking for an apology he escalated it drastically.
Take has the right to be angry. He is the injured party here. Take isn't the one who posted the private conversations. Can you ever imagine Nazgul posting private conversations to the public? Hell no. Actually, when is the last time a sc2 team owner posted private business related conversation to the public without notification and consent. NEVER. Genna is just plainly in the wrong here.
On August 16 2013 16:31 lolnice wrote: Wow, I can't believe this shit. Genna posting private stuff, and Dennis rightfully gets mad. Then she posts his reaction online again?! W-T-F
You owe TaKe an apology!
This is what I am saying. Not only does Genna post the private conversation once, but she does it again the SECOND time when Dennis already told her his misgivings about the first one.
We could call the first reveal if the private conversation a mistake/error in judgement, but then she does it again. Wtf???
Likely because after he brought up legal action she stopped giving a shit about what he wanted, rather then just addressing the issue and asking she refrain from doing it in the future or even asking for an apology he escalated it drastically.
In which case the team is much better without her and this whole thing turned out great.
If you actually believe the team and the scene are better off without her then I'm really not sure what to say to you because you're completely and utterly wrong.
No, I'm saying that the team is better off without a person in charge who starts to "not give a shit" about what a popular tournament organizer and community pillar (for the lack of better word, you have to admit that for the European scene Take is huge) wants, and just goes and posts all kind of information that could be really harmful for all of the three parties involved.
On August 16 2013 16:40 Advantageous wrote: why is TaKe doing this... i thought TaKe was a cool guy until now...
Doing what exactly? Having a PRIVATE conversation with somebody? Or doing everything to help Axiom attends the finals? Or do you mean his insane effort he puts in this Community, just to get stabbed in the back in public?
On August 16 2013 16:40 Advantageous wrote: why is TaKe doing this... i thought TaKe was a cool guy until now...
All he did was privately write "I wonder if there is legal action against this?" referring to Genna posting private conversation logs that he felt poorly represented Acer.
And then Genna posted that publicly as well, with a negative slant towards Take, and TB went around on twitter, reddit, and TL posting "Fuck Take".
On August 16 2013 16:31 lolnice wrote: Wow, I can't believe this shit. Genna posting private stuff, and Dennis rightfully gets mad. Then she posts his reaction online again?! W-T-F
You owe TaKe an apology!
This is what I am saying. Not only does Genna post the private conversation once, but she does it again the SECOND time when Dennis already told her his misgivings about the first one.
We could call the first reveal if the private conversation a mistake/error in judgement, but then she does it again. Wtf???
Likely because after he brought up legal action she stopped giving a shit about what he wanted, rather then just addressing the issue and asking she refrain from doing it in the future or even asking for an apology he escalated it drastically.
Take has the right to be angry. He is the injured party here. Take isn't the one who posted the private conversations. Can you ever imagine Nazgul posting private conversations to the public? Hell no. Actually, when is the last time a team owner posted private business related conversation to the public without notification and consent. NEVER. Genna is just plainly in the wrong here.
EDIT: You know what? fuck it. I think I'm done in this thread.
I totally agree 100% man.
EDIT #2: From this post on I'm gonna try and be more positive and not get frustrated with posters who... I disagree with, or whatever.
On August 16 2013 16:40 Advantageous wrote: why is TaKe doing this... i thought TaKe was a cool guy until now...
All he did was privately write "I wonder if there is legal action against this?" referring to Genna posting private conversation logs that he felt poorly represented Acer.
And then Genna posted that publicly as well, with a negative slant towards Take, and TB went around on twitter, reddit, and TL posting "Fuck Take".
Everyone should get this before poking Take with the pitchforks.
Without talking about legality. Don't you think its sheer common decency to not post private statements publicly if the person who made the statement did not give you permission?
People constantly make off the record comments or have private conversations that are just that PRIVATE because they talk about things that are not appropriate in some way.
If you can not grasp that simple idea, then you cannot function in this world.
Imagine people speaking their minds about everybody all the time. The world would be a very harsh place i will tell you that.
On August 16 2013 16:31 lolnice wrote: Wow, I can't believe this shit. Genna posting private stuff, and Dennis rightfully gets mad. Then she posts his reaction online again?! W-T-F
You owe TaKe an apology!
This is what I am saying. Not only does Genna post the private conversation once, but she does it again the SECOND time when Dennis already told her his misgivings about the first one.
We could call the first reveal if the private conversation a mistake/error in judgement, but then she does it again. Wtf???
Likely because after he brought up legal action she stopped giving a shit about what he wanted, rather then just addressing the issue and asking she refrain from doing it in the future or even asking for an apology he escalated it drastically.
In which case the team is much better without her and this whole thing turned out great.
If you actually believe the team and the scene are better off without her then I'm really not sure what to say to you because you're completely and utterly wrong.
No, I'm saying that the team is better off without a person in charge who starts to "not give a shit" about what a popular tournament organizer and community pillar (for the lack of better word, you have to admit that for the European scene Take is huge) wants, and just goes and posts all kind of information that could be really harmful for all of the three parties involved.
If his first reaction is to threaten legal action I'd say the reverse applies and we're better off without him?
Saying things are better off with some of the largest contributers to the scene is a dangerous combination of ignorance and spite.
I don't know which is more upsetting to me:the fact there are 17 pages of comments on this already or that anyone at all seems to give a shit about this.
On August 16 2013 16:31 lolnice wrote: Wow, I can't believe this shit. Genna posting private stuff, and Dennis rightfully gets mad. Then she posts his reaction online again?! W-T-F
You owe TaKe an apology!
This is what I am saying. Not only does Genna post the private conversation once, but she does it again the SECOND time when Dennis already told her his misgivings about the first one.
We could call the first reveal if the private conversation a mistake/error in judgement, but then she does it again. Wtf???
Likely because after he brought up legal action she stopped giving a shit about what he wanted, rather then just addressing the issue and asking she refrain from doing it in the future or even asking for an apology he escalated it drastically.
Take has the right to be angry. He is the injured party here. Take isn't the one who posted the private conversations. Can you ever imagine Nazgul posting private conversations to the public? Hell no. Actually, when is the last time a sc2 team owner posted private business related conversation to the public without notification and consent. NEVER. Genna is just plainly in the wrong here.
On August 16 2013 16:31 lolnice wrote: Wow, I can't believe this shit. Genna posting private stuff, and Dennis rightfully gets mad. Then she posts his reaction online again?! W-T-F
You owe TaKe an apology!
This is what I am saying. Not only does Genna post the private conversation once, but she does it again the SECOND time when Dennis already told her his misgivings about the first one.
We could call the first reveal if the private conversation a mistake/error in judgement, but then she does it again. Wtf???
Likely because after he brought up legal action she stopped giving a shit about what he wanted, rather then just addressing the issue and asking she refrain from doing it in the future or even asking for an apology he escalated it drastically.
Take has the right to be angry. He is the injured party here. Take isn't the one who posted the private conversations. Can you ever imagine Nazgul posting private conversations to the public? Hell no. Actually, when is the last time a team owner posted private business related conversation to the public without notification and consent. NEVER. Genna is just plainly in the wrong here.
Except he wasn't injured until Genna posted the log of him threatening her with legal action. Until that point he had no reason to be angry because Genna's blog where she posted the original logs painted both TaKe and Acer in a very very very very positive light................
He is injured from the breach in professional courtesy. The act of posting private conversations alone, no matter the content of what is inside is a faux pas. This is why you don't see major figures like mr.chae post private conversations he had with kespa to the public, etc. It's a matter of etiquette.
On August 16 2013 16:31 lolnice wrote: Wow, I can't believe this shit. Genna posting private stuff, and Dennis rightfully gets mad. Then she posts his reaction online again?! W-T-F
You owe TaKe an apology!
This is what I am saying. Not only does Genna post the private conversation once, but she does it again the SECOND time when Dennis already told her his misgivings about the first one.
We could call the first reveal if the private conversation a mistake/error in judgement, but then she does it again. Wtf???
Likely because after he brought up legal action she stopped giving a shit about what he wanted, rather then just addressing the issue and asking she refrain from doing it in the future or even asking for an apology he escalated it drastically.
In which case the team is much better without her and this whole thing turned out great.
If you actually believe the team and the scene are better off without her then I'm really not sure what to say to you because you're completely and utterly wrong.
No, I'm saying that the team is better off without a person in charge who starts to "not give a shit" about what a popular tournament organizer and community pillar (for the lack of better word, you have to admit that for the European scene Take is huge) wants, and just goes and posts all kind of information that could be really harmful for all of the three parties involved.
If his first reaction is to threaten legal action I'd say the reverse applies and we're better off without him?
Saying things are better off with some of the largest contributers to the scene is a dangerous combination of ignorance and spite.
I'm sure TB (who studied Law) was very scared by these dire and obviously serious legal threats. The question mark really seals the deal:
[6:51:25 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: this is crazy [6:51:33 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: actually i hope that by law [6:51:40 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: this is something you can get punnished for? [6:51:49 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: i guess if acer gonna read this they will get mad
Personally think this makes TaKe look worse than post #1, but only because he's saying he might bring you to court or some crap..
Really depressing to hear you step down from Axiom. I'm new to the scene and don't know much but I know that it's one of the more passionate teams from what I see and hear (read). Hoping for the best to come to you, Axiom in general and also that TB can fit in time for Axiom, or find someone who can (not sure how but yeah..).
Anyway, time to BibleThump my heart out. Too much 'bad' news for SC2 lately. :/
Edit: Rereading the bit about the 'law' bit by TaKe, and the post above me (thank you for posting btw), I realize that he is just spiteful. "[6:51:33 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: actually i hope that by law [6:51:40 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: this is something you can get punnished for?"
Maybe he just worded it terribly, but he seemed to be questioning whether or not he could sue Axiom, or Genna specifically, for posting that stuff.
I don't believe he can anyway, but this makes me a whole lot happier than I was when I first posted this.
On August 16 2013 16:40 Advantageous wrote: why is TaKe doing this... i thought TaKe was a cool guy until now...
His reaction might seem a bit extreme but he if anyone knows how difficult it is to get sponsors in e-sports. Hes so invested in the scene that he turned his own home into a freaking studio. I can totally understand why he wouldn't want to take risks with anything that might make the organization/sponsors look bad.
On August 16 2013 16:31 lolnice wrote: Wow, I can't believe this shit. Genna posting private stuff, and Dennis rightfully gets mad. Then she posts his reaction online again?! W-T-F
You owe TaKe an apology!
This is what I am saying. Not only does Genna post the private conversation once, but she does it again the SECOND time when Dennis already told her his misgivings about the first one.
We could call the first reveal if the private conversation a mistake/error in judgement, but then she does it again. Wtf???
Likely because after he brought up legal action she stopped giving a shit about what he wanted, rather then just addressing the issue and asking she refrain from doing it in the future or even asking for an apology he escalated it drastically.
Take has the right to be angry. He is the injured party here. Take isn't the one who posted the private conversations. Can you ever imagine Nazgul posting private conversations to the public? Hell no. Actually, when is the last time a sc2 team owner posted private business related conversation to the public without notification and consent. NEVER. Genna is just plainly in the wrong here.
On August 16 2013 16:31 lolnice wrote: Wow, I can't believe this shit. Genna posting private stuff, and Dennis rightfully gets mad. Then she posts his reaction online again?! W-T-F
You owe TaKe an apology!
This is what I am saying. Not only does Genna post the private conversation once, but she does it again the SECOND time when Dennis already told her his misgivings about the first one.
We could call the first reveal if the private conversation a mistake/error in judgement, but then she does it again. Wtf???
Likely because after he brought up legal action she stopped giving a shit about what he wanted, rather then just addressing the issue and asking she refrain from doing it in the future or even asking for an apology he escalated it drastically.
Take has the right to be angry. He is the injured party here. Take isn't the one who posted the private conversations. Can you ever imagine Nazgul posting private conversations to the public? Hell no. Actually, when is the last time a sc2 team owner posted private business related conversation to the public without notification and consent. NEVER. Genna is just plainly in the wrong here.
I could look past more than a few weeks but the bottom line is, you're talking out of your ass.
LOL
Yeah those "private letters" are totally comparable to the situation we have here...... /sarcasm The first two links are about one party trying to scam the other......how is that in any way relateable to the whole Take/Genna situation.....
On August 16 2013 16:31 lolnice wrote: Wow, I can't believe this shit. Genna posting private stuff, and Dennis rightfully gets mad. Then she posts his reaction online again?! W-T-F
You owe TaKe an apology!
This is what I am saying. Not only does Genna post the private conversation once, but she does it again the SECOND time when Dennis already told her his misgivings about the first one.
We could call the first reveal if the private conversation a mistake/error in judgement, but then she does it again. Wtf???
Likely because after he brought up legal action she stopped giving a shit about what he wanted, rather then just addressing the issue and asking she refrain from doing it in the future or even asking for an apology he escalated it drastically.
In which case the team is much better without her and this whole thing turned out great.
If you actually believe the team and the scene are better off without her then I'm really not sure what to say to you because you're completely and utterly wrong.
No, I'm saying that the team is better off without a person in charge who starts to "not give a shit" about what a popular tournament organizer and community pillar (for the lack of better word, you have to admit that for the European scene Take is huge) wants, and just goes and posts all kind of information that could be really harmful for all of the three parties involved.
If his first reaction is to threaten legal action I'd say the reverse applies and we're better off without him?
Saying things are better off with some of the largest contributers to the scene is a dangerous combination of ignorance and spite.
Well we can go and have a contributer battle between Take and the Bains and pretty sure Take wins it. But that's beside the point. All I was saying is that if someone gets stressed/emotional enough to start posting private email/skype logs without the permission of the other party, then perhaps he or she is not fit for the job to represent a team with actual big time sponsors.
Just to clear the air here, I am not in anyway a hater of the Bains. Infact I'm a subscriber of the Biscuit on youtube, twitch and generally enjoy every form of content he does, and I sincerely hope that Genna is alright and I wish her good luck in whatever she does.
[6:51:49 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: i guess if acer gonna read this they will get mad [6:51:54 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: that you posted it online [6:51:55 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: 10 times [6:52:02 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: more than u can ever imagine [6:52:14 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: cause there you let acer look very bad
So let me get this straight:
Misc. issues cause Axiom to not be able to attend an event. Genna posts announcement. Minor (MINOR) disgruntlement from community. Genna seeks to defend herself and her team, posting private chats of her and TaKe. TaKe sees these, and realizes it could make Acer look bad, and in this money-starved business, that's the worst thing you could do. TaKe gets mad, writes angrily to Genna. Genna again posts a private conversation and calls it quits.
At the end of the day, TaKe was just paranoid about making a sponsor look bad, I don't think that's at all problematic. Yeah, the legal threats were dumb, but Genna's posting them publicily to try to crucify TaKe seems worse.
1. lol.
2. No, he thought it could make Acer look bad, which it in no way could.
3. That was not her intention.
4. The more I read from Genna and TB the more I love the both of them. I will support them both, as well as Axiom itself, until the end.
So you think it was a good idea to post private business conversations to make you and your organization look good in the communities eyes at the expense of another individual and at the expense of a sponsor?
You support that, right? That's totally cool with you?
It wasn't at the expense of another individual or the expense of a sponsor. Did you actually read the blog? Genna mentioned several times that she thought TaKe was awesome and that he was going out of his way to help out their team, and that in no way was it Acer's fault.
No matter her intent, she should have afforded take the professional courtesy to notify and receive his consent to post the private conversations to the public.
It's like Nazgul let's TB know in private that he received 50k from a sponsor. That's good news right? But that doesn't give TB the right to tell the public about the content of the conversation he had with nazgul without notification and consent.
It's a matter of professional courtesy
Yeah, I can agree that professionally courtesy would suggest you should get permission first, but I don't agree with TaKe's response that he hopes someone can get punished by law for that.
On August 16 2013 16:30 namste wrote: At times like these (about every other day, right?) makes you really realize what a joke this eSports business really is. We should all just call it quits and be done with this shit. Let's pick a sport that has actual professionals working in it.
The problem is that people who are 'actual professionals' don't hang around in an industry that has no money to pay.
Feels like most of the people in here didn't even read the posts and are blaming Take for everything, it's just silly.
I could've said the same thing about people making TaKe out to be completely innocent of blame.
Dennis : okay i see but lets be honest thier chances doing pretty okay at the finale are there if we cant find a deal at all it would be the worst solution right? the point is i dont have big budgets that i can pay from my own pocket 3-4-5 flights
Genna : Worst case scenario, we forfeit and Millenium takes our slot.
Dennis : but before a team is not coming i really wanna help and even willing to pay some of my money into it thats why i ask i just try to find options
Genna : I'll have to talk to John about it to see if we have anything leftover from our sponsor pool for the month.
Dennis : okay and i will talk to acer about it if they would cover another 1500+ i think i am willing to help to on top
I take it all back its clear Take is the real evil person in this situation.
Guy acts as reasonably as someone can > gets upset about private conversations being made public > gets jumped on by fans of the most toxic duo in e-sports.
Couldn't agree more, he offers to help out in any way he can, and then he gets stabbed in the back. (maybe that's overly dramatic) He gets upset and posts PRIVATELY MESSAGES something that vaguely hints to legal action and suddenly it's all as if he was suing them already. Don't do anything that can make sponsors look bad in this industry because it is simply too fragile for pulling shit like that. It's like someone said a while back on whatever talk show I was watching, we can't just say no papa johns we don't want your sponsorship until you are better to your employees.
Also, TaKe's comment about legal action could simply be questioning if it was legal for Genna to use his private messages publicly without his permission.
No it couldn't. You don't say "I hope by law it's something you can be punished for" if you're just questioning it.
Axiom is one team, Acer is one of the biggest Esports sponsors there is, get a grip on reality please... had everything been done correctly from the get-go (informationwise from BOTH sides) there would have been no issues. had a statement been prepared together, showing good will from both sides, there would have been no issues.
As it stands for me, you overreacted and put Take in a bad spot, and now you are doing it again only because you have lost your temper, are overly aggressive and unprofessional, always this Jessica-like crash and burn mentality... if you go cant you go in peace? i certainly hope you will when things have cooled down a bit, and please dont attack Take for being concerned about his business partners and his PRIVACY, i know you dont think it is that precious, but he does, i do, germans do.
Sad that this has to be done, but all of this would have been avoided. In Addition: why dont you deal with this shit behind closed doors completely? Going public when you are disapointed does not help here. Tbh genna should have thought about legal actions herself.
I just don't understand the reason to post private chat logs, what did that actually accomplish? Proving your point that he forgot to mention the offline part? Well you could've written that in one sentence and if he denied it then you could've proved him wrong with the logs. But instead they decided to share a lot of info for no reason.
[6:51:49 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: i guess if acer gonna read this they will get mad [6:51:54 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: that you posted it online [6:51:55 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: 10 times [6:52:02 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: more than u can ever imagine [6:52:14 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: cause there you let acer look very bad
So let me get this straight:
Misc. issues cause Axiom to not be able to attend an event. Genna posts announcement. Minor (MINOR) disgruntlement from community. Genna seeks to defend herself and her team, posting private chats of her and TaKe. TaKe sees these, and realizes it could make Acer look bad, and in this money-starved business, that's the worst thing you could do. TaKe gets mad, writes angrily to Genna. Genna again posts a private conversation and calls it quits.
At the end of the day, TaKe was just paranoid about making a sponsor look bad, I don't think that's at all problematic. Yeah, the legal threats were dumb, but Genna's posting them publicily to try to crucify TaKe seems worse.
1. lol.
2. No, he thought it could make Acer look bad, which it in no way could.
3. That was not her intention.
4. The more I read from Genna and TB the more I love the both of them. I will support them both, as well as Axiom itself, until the end.
So you think it was a good idea to post private business conversations to make you and your organization look good in the communities eyes at the expense of another individual and at the expense of a sponsor?
You support that, right? That's totally cool with you?
It wasn't at the expense of another individual or the expense of a sponsor. Did you actually read the blog? Genna mentioned several times that she thought TaKe was awesome and that he was going out of his way to help out their team, and that in no way was it Acer's fault.
No matter her intent, she should have afforded take the professional courtesy to notify and receive his consent to post the private conversations to the public.
It's like Nazgul let's TB know in private that he received 50k from a sponsor. That's good news right? But that doesn't give TB the right to tell the public about the content of the conversation he had with nazgul without notification and consent.
It's a matter of professional courtesy
Yeah, I can agree that professionally courtesy would suggest you should get permission first, but I don't agree with TaKe's response that he hopes someone can get punished by law for that.
If this was actual business world and not eSports business world, there could and most likely would be legal consequences. But I'm not a lawyer of any sorts so I'm just guessing. You just don't go and post private stuff without the permission of the other party, that's the point that got Take angry, I assume.
On August 16 2013 16:40 Advantageous wrote: why is TaKe doing this... i thought TaKe was a cool guy until now...
All he did was privately write "I wonder if there is legal action against this?" referring to Genna posting private conversation logs that he felt poorly represented Acer.
He didn't say "I wonder", he said "I hope". Very different.
[6:51:49 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: i guess if acer gonna read this they will get mad [6:51:54 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: that you posted it online [6:51:55 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: 10 times [6:52:02 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: more than u can ever imagine [6:52:14 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: cause there you let acer look very bad
So let me get this straight:
Misc. issues cause Axiom to not be able to attend an event. Genna posts announcement. Minor (MINOR) disgruntlement from community. Genna seeks to defend herself and her team, posting private chats of her and TaKe. TaKe sees these, and realizes it could make Acer look bad, and in this money-starved business, that's the worst thing you could do. TaKe gets mad, writes angrily to Genna. Genna again posts a private conversation and calls it quits.
At the end of the day, TaKe was just paranoid about making a sponsor look bad, I don't think that's at all problematic. Yeah, the legal threats were dumb, but Genna's posting them publicily to try to crucify TaKe seems worse.
1. lol.
2. No, he thought it could make Acer look bad, which it in no way could.
3. That was not her intention.
4. The more I read from Genna and TB the more I love the both of them. I will support them both, as well as Axiom itself, until the end.
So you think it was a good idea to post private business conversations to make you and your organization look good in the communities eyes at the expense of another individual and at the expense of a sponsor?
You support that, right? That's totally cool with you?
It wasn't at the expense of another individual or the expense of a sponsor. Did you actually read the blog? Genna mentioned several times that she thought TaKe was awesome and that he was going out of his way to help out their team, and that in no way was it Acer's fault.
No matter her intent, she should have afforded take the professional courtesy to notify and receive his consent to post the private conversations to the public.
It's like Nazgul let's TB know in private that he received 50k from a sponsor. That's good news right? But that doesn't give TB the right to tell the public about the content of the conversation he had with nazgul without notification and consent.
It's a matter of professional courtesy
Yeah, I can agree that professionally courtesy would suggest you should get permission first, but I don't agree with TaKe's response that he hopes someone can get punished by law for that.
If this was actual business world and not eSports business world, there could and most likely would be legal consequences. But I'm not a lawyer of any sorts so I'm just guessing.
For the first post, no, there couldn't, and there wouldn't, and I have studied law. The second post is a bit more possible, but still unlikely.
This makes me quite sad. If it's a way to avoid legal action against Axiom, I suppose it's the most logical decision, but it still brings a tear to my eye to lose arguably the best manager in the business.
So you don't see how this could make Acer look bad? Take says he's going to ask Acer if they could help out and that statement gets released. What options are left for Acer? They could either pay or decline to do so. What reaction could they have faced by the community if they don't pay? "Sadly it didn't work out" or "ACER RUINING ESPORTS - declining to fly out poor Axiom!" If you look at all this and every previous drama, I'm willing to say that it wouldn't be the first option for sure... It's not guaranteed to happen but there's always one idiot starting a riot... //Edit: Not talking about TB or Take here Now this drama is bigger than Acer not paying, so pitchforks are on TB/genna/Axiom and Take, which might in the end be the best outcome...
Everyone made mistakes in this one, the simple solution would be to grow up and talk to each other instead of pulling shit into public...
On August 16 2013 17:12 metroid composite wrote: This makes me quite sad. If it's a way to avoid legal action against Axiom, I suppose it's the most logical decision, but it still brings a tear to my eye to lose arguably the best manager in the business.
I think it has more to do with avoiding health issues for Genna.
Oh please, same shit happened some time ago in the CS 1.6 scene where SK and fnatic had a huge bitch-fight over a "illegal" transfer of Rasmus "GuX" Ståhl.
Basically GuX was still with SK, but hadn't signed his contract with them for the length of five months while still receiving payments from them, he also was ought to attend Arbalet Dallas with SK and the organisation even had paid for his plane-ticket. Then through leaks of personal Skype conversations it came to light, that fnatic paid GuX for not attending the tournament. That controversy had it all, public announcements, rage-tweets, posting of private conversations (from both sides), legal threats. In the end nothing really happened.
What I am trying to say is, that organizations in eSports handle their affairs poorly for a long time now and they still don't seem to learn. Genna could have handled the situation better buy asking Take if he is ok with her posting the stuff in order to explain the situation. Take, if it was so important to him could have marked the stuff he had written with a NDA. In the end there won't be anything the two parties can take out of this situation except for some (bad) publicity. Publishing private information (Genna) without asking is not a nice move, but escalating that quickly and even throwing around hollow threats of legal action (Take) is also pretty silly. Acer won't get hurt at all since none of the parties actually attacked the company itself and even if they took a hit trough it they also wouldn't care much I think (since their major market is definitely not the eSports scene).
On August 16 2013 17:12 metroid composite wrote: This makes me quite sad. If it's a way to avoid legal action against Axiom, I suppose it's the most logical decision, but it still brings a tear to my eye to lose arguably the best manager in the business.
I think it has more to do with avoiding health issues for Genna.
That and any further damage to their publicity, I'd guess.
On August 16 2013 16:40 Advantageous wrote: why is TaKe doing this... i thought TaKe was a cool guy until now...
All he did was privately write "I wonder if there is legal action against this?" referring to Genna posting private conversation logs that he felt poorly represented Acer.
He didn't say "I wonder", he said "I hope". Very different.
[6:51:49 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: i guess if acer gonna read this they will get mad [6:51:54 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: that you posted it online [6:51:55 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: 10 times [6:52:02 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: more than u can ever imagine [6:52:14 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: cause there you let acer look very bad
So let me get this straight:
Misc. issues cause Axiom to not be able to attend an event. Genna posts announcement. Minor (MINOR) disgruntlement from community. Genna seeks to defend herself and her team, posting private chats of her and TaKe. TaKe sees these, and realizes it could make Acer look bad, and in this money-starved business, that's the worst thing you could do. TaKe gets mad, writes angrily to Genna. Genna again posts a private conversation and calls it quits.
At the end of the day, TaKe was just paranoid about making a sponsor look bad, I don't think that's at all problematic. Yeah, the legal threats were dumb, but Genna's posting them publicily to try to crucify TaKe seems worse.
1. lol.
2. No, he thought it could make Acer look bad, which it in no way could.
3. That was not her intention.
4. The more I read from Genna and TB the more I love the both of them. I will support them both, as well as Axiom itself, until the end.
So you think it was a good idea to post private business conversations to make you and your organization look good in the communities eyes at the expense of another individual and at the expense of a sponsor?
You support that, right? That's totally cool with you?
It wasn't at the expense of another individual or the expense of a sponsor. Did you actually read the blog? Genna mentioned several times that she thought TaKe was awesome and that he was going out of his way to help out their team, and that in no way was it Acer's fault.
No matter her intent, she should have afforded take the professional courtesy to notify and receive his consent to post the private conversations to the public.
It's like Nazgul let's TB know in private that he received 50k from a sponsor. That's good news right? But that doesn't give TB the right to tell the public about the content of the conversation he had with nazgul without notification and consent.
It's a matter of professional courtesy
Yeah, I can agree that professionally courtesy would suggest you should get permission first, but I don't agree with TaKe's response that he hopes someone can get punished by law for that.
If this was actual business world and not eSports business world, there could and most likely would be legal consequences. But I'm not a lawyer of any sorts so I'm just guessing.
For the first post, no, there couldn't, and there wouldn't, and I have studied law. The second post is a bit more possible, but still unlikely.
YOU did you study WORLD LAW or what? as a fucking lawyer you should know different countries have different laws. germany has some pretty strict laws on private data, btw.
and ultimately it doesn't matter at all. if someone posts your PRIVATE conversations in the business world without permission he loses all trust he had and you won't deal with this person any longer. this is just plain obvious.
Don't see TB doing that much management, he doesn't have the time and obviously has qualms about working in esports. He should probably have someone in Korea do it, makes sense since that's where the team is based...
About the Axiom vs Take conflict, you guys should get some perspective before slinging mud.
First off, they have a conflict of interest. Take is trying to save the tournament he is hosting, Axiom wants to pull out because they'd have to go in the red to participate. Reasonable from both sides, but unsolvable, since it's way too late to renegotiate any sponsorship deals. While that's pretty tense, they could have gotten over this in good terms. But then...
Axiom has a brutally (or suicidally) honest PR policy and always makes detailed public statements about what's going on, and they don't see any problem quoting Take from skype logs in order to clarify things. While the logs don't really make Take look bad or contain incredibly sensitive information, Take freaks out over the fact that they would do this for any reason. Axiom makes no concessions and gives Take the middle finger from their moral high ground.
So who is in the wrong? You decide, but personally I don't see any villains in this story, and no need to raise any pitchforks. They only wanted the best for their team/event and stood by their principles. It's not really anything a viewer should be concerned with anyways, other than the fact that we have Millenium in ATC instead of Axiom.
On August 16 2013 13:00 TotalBiscuit wrote: Fuck Dennis. If he wasn't so concerned about saving face rather than being honest with everybody about his mismanaged tournament then some of this might not have happened.
This is the only part i don't get. Where exactly did Take throw Axiom under a bus? The only statement i've seen from Take was in short "we talked it out, we couldn't come to an agreement, everyone is sorry, we will do better". It doesn't cover any detail, but to me it seems like a very fair and reasonable statement?
Hey everyone in the esportscene as you have seen Axiom did a post that they won`t be able to participate in the Acer TeamStoryCup powered by Intel which makes me very sad! I have seen some bad feedback from the community which gives me a very bad feeling cause Axiom same as us tried to figure out all options if they can make it and do not have to cancel thier participation. We kept talking for along time already and also informed Millenium right after we knew that it _might_ happen that Axiom won t be able to attend. I wanna thank Axiom for keep talking to us and trying to find a solution. So as you can see Millenium will be the replacement in this case - Stuff like this can happen and is very sad for the team itself cause they fought for this place. I hope to see Axiom back in action if there is a next season and they can do it once again to qualify for the Finals! I hope even with this bad news you are looking forward to the ATC Finale as i do which will be already saturday and i also wanna let you guys know that we try to work on this league to let stuff like this not happen again and try to have even a better communication to the teams but don t forget esport is a very very busy business and all of the people actually working here invest more time than most "normal" people would ever do. Thanks Dennis
On August 16 2013 14:17 BroOd wrote: You know what would be so refreshing? If both parties could sort this privately while publicly apologizing for turning it into a spectacle in the first place. Save 10 pages of bickering and refuting this and that, save one more shovel of shit on the pile, and surprise everyone in the community by acting like business-minded individuals. I'm sure all players involved with both parties will be grateful.
This post is so good it made the front page of reddit, but I have to say I don't think Take has to publicly apologize for anything. He did absolutely nothing to turn this into a public spectacle, if anything he wanted the opposite.
So good it made it on Reddit. Please allow me to detach myself of your notion of "good".
It was already a public spectacle because it's public information that a team will not fly to the ATC finals. Everything that came later was damage control.
This blog is literally the opposite of demage control.
Maybe it is not always about professional damage control, but revealing the personal experience of a matter. I rather like this open approach by the Bain family than professionally managed damage control.
On August 16 2013 17:00 zul wrote: Lesson to learn: seal everything with a NDA.
Sad that this has to be done, but all of this would have been avoided. In Addition: why dont you deal with this shit behind closed doors completely? Going public when you are disapointed does not help here. Tbh genna should have thought about legal actions herself.
Anyways, thanks for your Engagement.
I would insult you for your stupidity but I won't, Genna has no grounds to take legal action and never did. I seriously doubt TaKe ever seriously considered taking legal action himself, if he did he wouldn't have put a questionmark behind it and would've phrased it differently. Nothing in the entire world would ever get done if you had to put an NDA on every stupid little thing, there is professional courtesy but some people don't seem to understand this very basic principle.
On August 16 2013 16:40 Advantageous wrote: why is TaKe doing this... i thought TaKe was a cool guy until now...
All he did was privately write "I wonder if there is legal action against this?" referring to Genna posting private conversation logs that he felt poorly represented Acer.
He didn't say "I wonder", he said "I hope". Very different.
On August 16 2013 17:01 namste wrote:
On August 16 2013 16:57 CarbonTwelve wrote:
On August 16 2013 16:28 ptbl wrote:
On August 16 2013 16:22 CarbonTwelve wrote:
On August 16 2013 16:11 OblivionMage wrote:
On August 16 2013 16:09 Shebuha wrote:
On August 16 2013 16:04 OblivionMage wrote:
[6:51:49 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: i guess if acer gonna read this they will get mad [6:51:54 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: that you posted it online [6:51:55 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: 10 times [6:52:02 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: more than u can ever imagine [6:52:14 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: cause there you let acer look very bad
So let me get this straight:
Misc. issues cause Axiom to not be able to attend an event. Genna posts announcement. Minor (MINOR) disgruntlement from community. Genna seeks to defend herself and her team, posting private chats of her and TaKe. TaKe sees these, and realizes it could make Acer look bad, and in this money-starved business, that's the worst thing you could do. TaKe gets mad, writes angrily to Genna. Genna again posts a private conversation and calls it quits.
At the end of the day, TaKe was just paranoid about making a sponsor look bad, I don't think that's at all problematic. Yeah, the legal threats were dumb, but Genna's posting them publicily to try to crucify TaKe seems worse.
1. lol.
2. No, he thought it could make Acer look bad, which it in no way could.
3. That was not her intention.
4. The more I read from Genna and TB the more I love the both of them. I will support them both, as well as Axiom itself, until the end.
So you think it was a good idea to post private business conversations to make you and your organization look good in the communities eyes at the expense of another individual and at the expense of a sponsor?
You support that, right? That's totally cool with you?
It wasn't at the expense of another individual or the expense of a sponsor. Did you actually read the blog? Genna mentioned several times that she thought TaKe was awesome and that he was going out of his way to help out their team, and that in no way was it Acer's fault.
No matter her intent, she should have afforded take the professional courtesy to notify and receive his consent to post the private conversations to the public.
It's like Nazgul let's TB know in private that he received 50k from a sponsor. That's good news right? But that doesn't give TB the right to tell the public about the content of the conversation he had with nazgul without notification and consent.
It's a matter of professional courtesy
Yeah, I can agree that professionally courtesy would suggest you should get permission first, but I don't agree with TaKe's response that he hopes someone can get punished by law for that.
If this was actual business world and not eSports business world, there could and most likely would be legal consequences. But I'm not a lawyer of any sorts so I'm just guessing.
For the first post, no, there couldn't, and there wouldn't, and I have studied law. The second post is a bit more possible, but still unlikely.
YOU did you study WORLD LAW or what? as a fucking lawyer you should know different countries have different laws. germany has some pretty strict laws on private data, btw.
I never said I was a lawyer, but as someone who has studied law I also know about jurisdiction, and what German law can do about something that someone from the US posted whilst in the US on a US site hosted in the US.
On August 16 2013 14:17 BroOd wrote: You know what would be so refreshing? If both parties could sort this privately while publicly apologizing for turning it into a spectacle in the first place. Save 10 pages of bickering and refuting this and that, save one more shovel of shit on the pile, and surprise everyone in the community by acting like business-minded individuals. I'm sure all players involved with both parties will be grateful.
This post is so good it made the front page of reddit, but I have to say I don't think Take has to publicly apologize for anything. He did absolutely nothing to turn this into a public spectacle, if anything he wanted the opposite.
So good it made it on Reddit. Please allow me to detach myself of your notion of "good".
It was already a public spectacle because it's public information that a team will not fly to the ATC finals. Everything that came later was damage control.
This blog is literally the opposite of demage control.
Maybe it is not always about professional damage control, but revealing the personal experience of a matter. I rather like this open approach by the Bain family than professionally managed damage control.
Like it or don't like it, I think it'll end up eventually hurting the team and the players in it. That's what is supposed to matter the most, not saving a person's face or anything like that.
On August 16 2013 16:40 Advantageous wrote: why is TaKe doing this... i thought TaKe was a cool guy until now...
All he did was privately write "I wonder if there is legal action against this?" referring to Genna posting private conversation logs that he felt poorly represented Acer.
He didn't say "I wonder", he said "I hope". Very different.
On August 16 2013 17:01 namste wrote:
On August 16 2013 16:57 CarbonTwelve wrote:
On August 16 2013 16:28 ptbl wrote:
On August 16 2013 16:22 CarbonTwelve wrote:
On August 16 2013 16:11 OblivionMage wrote:
On August 16 2013 16:09 Shebuha wrote:
On August 16 2013 16:04 OblivionMage wrote: [quote]
So let me get this straight:
Misc. issues cause Axiom to not be able to attend an event. Genna posts announcement. Minor (MINOR) disgruntlement from community. Genna seeks to defend herself and her team, posting private chats of her and TaKe. TaKe sees these, and realizes it could make Acer look bad, and in this money-starved business, that's the worst thing you could do. TaKe gets mad, writes angrily to Genna. Genna again posts a private conversation and calls it quits.
At the end of the day, TaKe was just paranoid about making a sponsor look bad, I don't think that's at all problematic. Yeah, the legal threats were dumb, but Genna's posting them publicily to try to crucify TaKe seems worse.
1. lol.
2. No, he thought it could make Acer look bad, which it in no way could.
3. That was not her intention.
4. The more I read from Genna and TB the more I love the both of them. I will support them both, as well as Axiom itself, until the end.
So you think it was a good idea to post private business conversations to make you and your organization look good in the communities eyes at the expense of another individual and at the expense of a sponsor?
You support that, right? That's totally cool with you?
It wasn't at the expense of another individual or the expense of a sponsor. Did you actually read the blog? Genna mentioned several times that she thought TaKe was awesome and that he was going out of his way to help out their team, and that in no way was it Acer's fault.
No matter her intent, she should have afforded take the professional courtesy to notify and receive his consent to post the private conversations to the public.
It's like Nazgul let's TB know in private that he received 50k from a sponsor. That's good news right? But that doesn't give TB the right to tell the public about the content of the conversation he had with nazgul without notification and consent.
It's a matter of professional courtesy
Yeah, I can agree that professionally courtesy would suggest you should get permission first, but I don't agree with TaKe's response that he hopes someone can get punished by law for that.
If this was actual business world and not eSports business world, there could and most likely would be legal consequences. But I'm not a lawyer of any sorts so I'm just guessing.
For the first post, no, there couldn't, and there wouldn't, and I have studied law. The second post is a bit more possible, but still unlikely.
YOU did you study WORLD LAW or what? as a fucking lawyer you should know different countries have different laws. germany has some pretty strict laws on private data, btw.
I never said I was a lawyer, but as someone who has studied law I also know about jurisdiction, and what German law can do about something that someone from the US posted whilst in the US on a US site hosted in the US.
what's legal in the US isn't necessarily legal in germany. that's my point. as a person who studied law, you should know.
So the management of a SC2 team is no hobby for a bored wife that plays with the money of her man, especially if you can't handle the stress. Surprise. Now prepare (if it has not already happened) for drama from TB for more reddit and YT views.
To me, all this drama just doesnt make any sense. Both parties have done a lot for E-sports and are passionate about it. I find it hard to believe that either just wants to save face by screwing the other over. This may go a lot deeper or it could simply be some petty differences that werent handled in a mature manner.
Wasnt expecting to ever see something like this, your an out-standing manager to axiom, and the things you talk about to do with crank etc are amazing, im sure all the guys will miss you in that role it is a pretty hefty loss for them IMO.
Was a very good run though of multiple top positions in tournaments, i hope some day you return to continuing guiding the guys, but until then good luck with future endeavours
This is ridiculous, as a fan of e-Sports I am completely and utterly disappointed in which the manner TaKe has dealt with this. Completely lost my respect for TaKe and will be avoiding his events from hereon in. Some transparency is good in a startup industry and in an e-Sport, fans should know if there are issues like this, threatening to sue for someone revealing truths to fans is just low. Axiom qualified 2nd in the group stage, was not given funds to travel and you expect them to keep it a secret without explaining to fans? I hope TaKe will take a good hard look on his own conduct, defending sponsors is no reason to act like a douche.
On August 16 2013 13:51 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:
On August 16 2013 13:44 ptbl wrote:
On August 16 2013 13:36 dcemuser wrote:
On August 16 2013 13:35 ptbl wrote: Take has the right to be angry. He is the "injured" party. It wasn't take who revealed the private conversations without the other parties consent nor notification.
Irrelevant. She stepped on toes (while painting him as a good person), he stepped over the line.
uhh, Genna exposed the fact that Liquid needed monetary support to send players to the ATC final. Take told Genna the information in confidence, but she revealed it without proper notification nor consent.
So, what do you mean it made Take look good. Airing dirty laundry is never good.
Take volunteered to pay thousands of dollars to help Axiom come to ATC.
No he didn't.
as they are public might aswell
Dennis : okay i see but lets be honest thier chances doing pretty okay at the finale are there if we cant find a deal at all it would be the worst solution right? the point is i dont have big budgets that i can pay from my own pocket 3-4-5 flights
Genna : Worst case scenario, we forfeit and Millenium takes our slot.
Dennis : but before a team is not coming i really wanna help and even willing to pay some of my money into it thats why i ask i just try to find options
Genna : I'll have to talk to John about it to see if we have anything leftover from our sponsor pool for the month.
Dennis : okay and i will talk to acer about it if they would cover another 1500+ i think i am willing to help to on top
"If Acer will pay an additional fee I will try and help" is not the same thing.
Why are you leaving the "on top" part out? Since he said "<requirement> i am willing to help to (sic!) on top"
Say it would cost 5k (example) and you / Acer would be able to cover 4k of it, he would cover the 1k, which is him volunteering to help Axiom come to ATC. He apparently wasnt in a position to pay 5k alone (or wasnt willing to) but he was willing to help. So yes, he did.
On August 16 2013 17:37 Khai wrote: This is ridiculous, as a fan of e-Sports I am completely and utterly disappointed in which the manner TaKe has dealt with this. Completely lost my respect for TaKe and will be avoiding his events from hereon in. Some transparency is good in a startup industry and in an e-Sport, fans should know if there are issues like this, threatening to sue for someone revealing truths to fans is just low. Axiom qualified 2nd in the group stage, was not given funds to travel and you expect them to keep it a secret without explaining to fans? I hope TaKe will take a good hard look on his own conduct, defending sponsors is no reason to act like a douche.
Act like a douche? He even offered Genna to ask Acer if they could help in this situation. There is only one douche in this matter, and that's the person who writes "fuck you, take" in his twitter.
On August 16 2013 17:37 Khai wrote: This is ridiculous, as a fan of e-Sports I am completely and utterly disappointed in which the manner TaKe has dealt with this. Completely lost my respect for TaKe and will be avoiding his events from hereon in. Some transparency is good in a startup industry and in an e-Sport, fans should know if there are issues like this, threatening to sue for someone revealing truths to fans is just low. Axiom qualified 2nd in the group stage, was not given funds to travel and you expect them to keep it a secret without explaining to fans? I hope TaKe will take a good hard look on his own conduct, defending sponsors is no reason to act like a douche.
Act like a douche? He even offered Genna to ask Acer if they could help in this situation. There is only one douche in this matter, and that's the person who writes "fuck you, take" in his twitter.
And he also offered to pay for some of the costs out of his own pocket to make the event possible.
On August 16 2013 12:53 sumsaR wrote: I'm not sure I understand why you're retiring. Because of something stupid someone said in a private chat about something stupid?
I guess it should have been spelled out in the post. What just happened is just a tiny taste of the sheer amount of bullshit, backroom nonsense, immaturity and general awfulness that happens in this scene on a daily basis. This is the straw that broke the camels back after a years worth of stress that would have crushed a lesser person far sooner. Sorry, people aren't robots, emotions exist, stress is a real thing and there comes a point where its' better to step back for your own health. The audacity that anyone is questioning her decision to leave and pretending to know what's going on in her head, the sheer audacity.
Yeah I read so many stupid posts saying she's an idiot blah blah blah. People dont seem to understand what it takes to do what Genna does. They're just being ignorant sadly. I'm not saying that I know everything that has happened but I do realize she didnt just make this decision because she is weak, but in fact the opposite. Strong enough to do what is best for her :-/
On August 16 2013 17:37 Khai wrote: This is ridiculous, as a fan of e-Sports I am completely and utterly disappointed in which the manner TaKe has dealt with this. Completely lost my respect for TaKe and will be avoiding his events from hereon in. Some transparency is good in a startup industry and in an e-Sport, fans should know if there are issues like this, threatening to sue for someone revealing truths to fans is just low. Axiom qualified 2nd in the group stage, was not given funds to travel and you expect them to keep it a secret without explaining to fans? I hope TaKe will take a good hard look on his own conduct, defending sponsors is no reason to act like a douche.
Act like a douche? He even offered Genna to ask Acer if they could help in this situation. There is only one douche in this matter, and that's the person who writes "fuck you, take" in his twitter.
And he also offered to pay for some of the costs out of his own pocket to make the event possible.
And then he threatened to sue? I guess some things outweight others. And John and Genna has done so much good and so little bad has come out about that I believe their words untill TaKe proves otherwise. You know its easy to offer things when you know you wont have to live up to them.
On August 16 2013 17:33 Gr33d wrote: So the management of a SC2 team is no hobby for a bored wife that plays with the money of her man, especially if you can't handle the stress. Surprise. Now prepare (if it has not already happened) for drama from TB for more reddit and YT views.
Recall SlayerS incident, when another team manager was mad and posted private / compromising team information before calling it quits. Recall Axioms (TBs) stance & comments about said person back then. Laugh or cry, whatever you feel like
Sigh I'm sorry that things turned out this way. Every time I talked to you your love for your team and individual players was so evident - honestly feel it's rare to see that level of personal love and concern for the players from team owners (minus victor). I wish you only the best and hope I can continue seeing you at events in the future. <3
On August 16 2013 13:10 Bagi wrote: Feels like overreaction. The childish "fuck Take"-stuff isn't helping anyone either.
Yeah man we should totally just hug it out after he threatened my wife and the team with legal action.
Is this the first time you got threatened with legal action? My mom deals with that daily at her work with clients. Grow up. I got threatened with legal action and racism a couple days ago. You know what I did? I played it cool, stayed calm, and finished my transaction with the buyer.
News just in, eSports is not the same as working at a supermarket.
You're right, people who work at supermarkets actually have professionalism and don't act like children every time there's an altercation. Very useful talent to(i) have.
On August 16 2013 14:17 BroOd wrote: You know what would be so refreshing? If both parties could sort this privately while publicly apologizing for turning it into a spectacle in the first place. Save 10 pages of bickering and refuting this and that, save one more shovel of shit on the pile, and surprise everyone in the community by acting like business-minded individuals. I'm sure all players involved with both parties will be grateful.
This post is so good it made the front page of reddit, but I have to say I don't think Take has to publicly apologize for anything. He did absolutely nothing to turn this into a public spectacle, if anything he wanted the opposite.
So good it made it on Reddit. Please allow me to detach myself of your notion of "good".
It was already a public spectacle because it's public information that a team will not fly to the ATC finals. Everything that came later was damage control.
This blog is literally the opposite of demage control.
Maybe it is not always about professional damage control, but revealing the personal experience of a matter. I rather like this open approach by the Bain family than professionally managed damage control.
Like it or don't like it, I think it'll end up eventually hurting the team and the players in it. That's what is supposed to matter the most, not saving a person's face or anything like that.
Before they "hurt" the team, they at least created one. Maybe it is better to create a good team like Axiom and "hurting" it a little bit that creating a blood-dry team with personality-free smooth talkers. Maybe the scene is big enough for both types of teams.
On August 16 2013 17:37 Khai wrote: This is ridiculous, as a fan of e-Sports I am completely and utterly disappointed in which the manner TaKe has dealt with this. Completely lost my respect for TaKe and will be avoiding his events from hereon in. Some transparency is good in a startup industry and in an e-Sport, fans should know if there are issues like this, threatening to sue for someone revealing truths to fans is just low. Axiom qualified 2nd in the group stage, was not given funds to travel and you expect them to keep it a secret without explaining to fans? I hope TaKe will take a good hard look on his own conduct, defending sponsors is no reason to act like a douche.
Act like a douche? He even offered Genna to ask Acer if they could help in this situation. There is only one douche in this matter, and that's the person who writes "fuck you, take" in his twitter.
After reading Genna's post before I had absolutely no ill feelings towards either party. Axiom got shafted on air fares a week or so before, so it was totally understandable why they couldn't afford to fly the whole team over to Germany. Dennis' responses seemed helpful in trying to resolve the situation and actually increased my opinion of him and he has been a great guy all around providing us with some premier type tournaments just out of his house! Acer obviously did nothing wrong in this whole thing. If anyones reputation was damaged, it was Gennas by assuming the air fares would be paid for from some distant memory, while not being true.
Hell, I've been enjoying Dennis' BecomeAPro broadcasts with Harstem and Daishi so much lately and in addition to the last thread that I wanted to buy a sub again as soon as my money wire into paypal completed.
I wake up this morning and see all this bullshit. The money wire has been completed but now I can't really support bullying like this. In addition, who the hell expects privacy on a chat program like Skype? A chat program that sends your stuff in plaintext over Microsofts servers?
Please Dennis, don't internet if you're angry. Send emails with a confidentiality clause on the bottom if you really want things private. In any case, yeah that twitch sub isn't going to happen any time soon.
And then he threatened to sue? I guess some things outweight others. And John and Genna has done so much good and so little bad has come out about that I believe their words untill TaKe proves otherwise. You know its easy to offer things when you know you wont have to live up to them.
But he did not. The fun thing with making these chatlogs available for the public is that you can read them too. Wishing that someone gets sued (by a third party even) is not the same as threatening someone with legal action.
I really read the whole blog even though I normally don't care anymore after 4-5 lines. This shows how much that means to a random guy of the Sc2 community. I am really sad about it. This reflects the recent change in the community which isn't a good one :/ I wish you good luck in whatever you will do in the future!
From now i will not wacht Take.tv again, not even for HSC. Of course they do great stuff, but Take being this bitchy is just too much. Srsly F*** you Dennis.
EDIT: OOOPS. See thats how much rage posting is worth :D
Raise your pitchforks.... I just imagine what happened if Axiom just said they couldnt attend ATC because they got no money... Most likely there wouldnt have been any drama, maybe a fundraiser would have been a solution. I don't really think it was the best way to show the whole conversations just to make Axiom look good. Ofc there were mistakes by TaKeTV as well, but reveiling all the background conversations is just not the right way imho. Sry for my bad english and have a nice day
On August 16 2013 18:04 plgElwood wrote: From now i will not wacht Take.tv again, not even for HSC. Of course they do great stuff, but Take being this bitchy is just too much. Srsly F*** you Dennis.
This is terrible news. I always liked Genna's way of doing things. Especially after i've watched Climbing the Ladder i had nothing but respect for her, with how she wanted to improve teams in and player conditions. Is there any other team/manager that even thought about what their players will do after they're done playing? I'm kind of shocked that Dennis lashes out in the way he did. It's one thing to be angry or unhappy that private logs get posted, but legal action is just way off - especially as a spokesman of a business. It's not just some internet playground where you toss that stuff around lightly. Genna's Blog post provided some precious insight that we usually don't get (for obvious reasons as it seems today). And i'm sad to see her go.
It is bad business practice to publicly reveal private conversations on the internet. It is a clear breach of trust, even without a NDA. Phone calls and skype conversations and emails are all private. Twitter, internet forums, interviews and youtube are all public. There is a difference. When you communicate with someone over the phone/email or skype there is a clear understanding and expectation that this is a private communique and not for publication. This is not something that needs to be explicitly stated within every phone-call/email/skype chat. The convention of expectation of privacy is understood and established. If Gemma wanted to publicise the skype conversations, she should have asked Take for prior permission, even if her intent was not to harm Take. Maybe just a miscommunication or oversight, but publicly revealing Skype transcripts without permission is a clear breach of business ethics and is a deliberate act rather than accidental. The whole recent NSA monitoring scandal is precisely because people have expectations of privacy for their emails and confidential conversations that take part online. It is understandable that people could get angry when someone breaches their trust in this way. I think posting the skype transcripts here on TL was a bad call.
I am very sad and disappointed that it appears TB and Axiom have now seemingly become estranged with Take and his organisation. I think that both Take and TB have both given a lot to the SC2 community and the community has been enriched by both their efforts. I have personally enjoyed Tournaments organised by both TB and Take and consequently have a lot of respect and admiration for both individuals. They wll always have my gratitude for their efforts to grow the SC2 scene and the entertainment they have provided me. It is my hope that when the dust has settled, TB and Take can have a reconciliation and resolve their differences. Mistakes have been made, words have been said, but I hope that no bridges have been burnt permanently. Time is a healer. It is my hope that TB and Take can get over this issue sometime down the road. Having a schism is of no benefit to the scene and working together in the future can be of mutual benefit to TB and Take from a business perspective.
I am sorry to hear that Genna has decided to step down from running Axiom. It is a shame but obviously it is her decision to make. She is the only one who walks in her shoes and knows her situation. I respect that. I would like to say thanks to Genna for her contributions and efforts for the SC2 scene in general and running Axiom specifically. Good luck to her in the future. Hopefully she will remain an insightful contributor here at TL. Thanks for your efforts, Genna. I appreciate them. Whatever her future path, I wish her success and joy. ** Applauds**
I honestly don't see the point in owning/running a team. If people like him break promises causing you to spend much more in return, fans going batshit crazy about stuff, you having to explain things to them and then receiving threats like that.. why bother? Regardless of what you do, it's a lose-lose situation. I don't even think it's just this tournament doing shit like that. We just don't hear about it.
While sad for the players, I'd have pulled out long ago. Pun not intended.
On August 16 2013 17:37 Khai wrote: This is ridiculous, as a fan of e-Sports I am completely and utterly disappointed in which the manner TaKe has dealt with this. Completely lost my respect for TaKe and will be avoiding his events from hereon in. Some transparency is good in a startup industry and in an e-Sport, fans should know if there are issues like this, threatening to sue for someone revealing truths to fans is just low. Axiom qualified 2nd in the group stage, was not given funds to travel and you expect them to keep it a secret without explaining to fans? I hope TaKe will take a good hard look on his own conduct, defending sponsors is no reason to act like a douche.
Fans dont need to know shit, all fans need to know is where and who of their favorite players are playing what and when, everything else is none of their business. And your post shows exactly why. Axiom wasn't given full travel funds cause it was never announced that there would be travel funds, Axiom just assumed it would be so. Well, lesson number one, when you run a business, never assume anything. If you dont get information, then you better make sure you get it yourself.
And Take is not going to sue anyone and it was not a treat. Why do people take everything so damn literally, how hard it is to put something in perspective? Axiom is trying to safe face and failed pretty hard. Genna stops (from what i understand bigger issues then a upset Take) and now we have a loose dog on TL with the name TotalBiscuit.
So yeah, everyone is a winner by throwing private conversations around and doesn't help anyone.
On August 16 2013 18:08 zdfgucker wrote: I honestly don't see the point in owning/running a team. If people like him break promises causing you to spend much more in return, fans going batshit crazy about stuff, you having to explain things to them and then receiving threats like that.. why bother? Regardless of what you do, it's a lose-lose situation. I don't even think it's just this tournament doing shit like that. We just don't hear about it.
While sad for the players, I'd have pulled out long ago. Pun not intended.
It was never promised full travel costs were provided. (Which is right IMHO, if you own more or less a korean based team you should expect to pay more for travel expenses to a european or NA event than if you live there...) You can read this a) in the mails and b) in this thread. It was said that 1500$ would be paid, right in the announcement thread for this tournament. Some teams apparently did participate without having the ability to pay for the costs and he either helped them with more money out of his own (Liquid) or offered it (Axiom). So where are the other team owners bitching about this? With all the recent stuff and constant bitching from TB I would not be surprised if this is another welcome opportunity to stir some drama.
Take is such a nice guy, he just felt betrayed maybe.
Why does everything in eSports always end up with silly apologies followed by someone capable being fired or leaving the scene?
Posting logs of someone you like and trust is not good imo but that doesn't mean he was suing.. besides a german lawsuit against a american in american soil.. we know how that would work out..
well i guess her retirement has its reasons. perhaps she has more things to do as she claims that she is An eSports fan, event makeup artist, talent manager, event organizer/producer, and TB's manager, so i guess she has tons of work to do. i wish all the best to genna and TB and hope that he can bring the team to even bigger accomplishments.
On August 16 2013 13:10 Bagi wrote: Feels like overreaction. The childish "fuck Take"-stuff isn't helping anyone either.
Yeah man we should totally just hug it out after he threatened my wife and the team with legal action.
Is this the first time you got threatened with legal action? My mom deals with that daily at her work with clients. Grow up. I got threatened with legal action and racism a couple days ago. You know what I did? I played it cool, stayed calm, and finished my transaction with the buyer.
News just in, eSports is not the same as working at a supermarket.
Ugh this comment combined with the "if I don't have to read the bullshit from YOU PEOPLE" comment make it hard to respect you at all. Such a douchey way to communicate with people. You're not always right man, just because you're shooting people straight and speaking your mind, it doesn't make it right to talk to people like that.
Here are all the comments from TB so far, which should clarify some for people that dont seem to know a lot about the situation. I really think its worth reading before you throw shit at him:
On August 16 2013 12:53 sumsaR wrote: I'm not sure I understand why you're retiring. Because of something stupid someone said in a private chat about something stupid?
I guess it should have been spelled out in the post. What just happened is just a tiny taste of the sheer amount of bullshit, backroom nonsense, immaturity and general awfulness that happens in this scene on a daily basis. This is the straw that broke the camels back after a years worth of stress that would have crushed a lesser person far sooner. Sorry, people aren't robots, emotions exist, stress is a real thing and there comes a point where its' better to step back for your own health. The audacity that anyone is questioning her decision to leave and pretending to know what's going on in her head, the sheer audacity.
On August 16 2013 12:58 Joedaddy wrote: Pretty shitty move when you make what one presumed to be a private conversation public. Even if you didn't think it was a big deal, Dennis obviously did.
Fuck Dennis. If he wasn't so concerned about saving face rather than being honest with everybody about his mismanaged tournament then some of this might not have happened. When you say "I hope there are legal consequences for what you've done" all bets are off, I lose any respect I've had for you. I hope Take enjoyed the free casting and the numbers, I'll never deal with him and his organisation ever again.
Oh that is so mature TB. I really agree witht you on most topics but you can't see that everyone made a mistake in this situation? You just trying to shitstorm him now... "classy". To post privat discussion openly in a forum is a big no-no even if you don't want to see it his way. The lawbullshit by take it obviously just angryman talking and not smart either. So everyone looses.
Other things that are unprofessional.
Threatening legal action on another team. Bullshiting the community and trying to save face.
You know why this scene is such a mess? Because it's riddled with incompetence and dishonesty. Gennas first duty was to the team, that means damage control, that means showing our side of the story and that means minimizing how slammed we got because the statement that was put out threw Axiom under the boss while saving face for ATC, regardless of poor communication and mismanagement that event suffered.
I have always believed shit gets done by being honest and forthright with people and I believe that massively overrides any expectation of "privacy" you might have. Your definition of maturity is irrelevant, it gets nothing done.
On August 16 2013 12:58 Joedaddy wrote: Pretty shitty move when you make what one presumed to be a private conversation public. Even if you didn't think it was a big deal, Dennis obviously did.
Fuck Dennis. If he wasn't so concerned about saving face rather than being honest with everybody about his mismanaged tournament then some of this might not have happened. When you say "I hope there are legal consequences for what you've done" all bets are off, I lose any respect I've had for you. I hope Take enjoyed the free casting and the numbers, I'll never deal with him and his organisation ever again.
I have to agree with that sentiment. Maybe that first blog post was not entirely thought through (directly quoting private conversations instead of paraphrasing or summarizing). It's a small mistake, Genna could have reached out to Acer directly if she felt the need to apologize after Take points out that some feathers are ruffled. I'm sure Axiom has a pretty decent relationship with Acer. Take is taking it over the top with the legal threats, I'm rather disgusted. Regardless, it sounds like if it wasn't this bullshit, the next one would have been the straw that broke the camel's back. All the best to Genna.
Genna had already talked about all of this with Acer, we maintain a good relationship with them and they were not in fact pissed off that we posted that stuff at all. Acer would have no doubt done exactly the same thing if they had come under fire. The first duty of a team manager is to protect their team, not protect 3rd parties. We learned that when we tried to do what was right for Demuslim and Sasquatch in WCS after MLGs admin fucked up and were crucified for that as well.
On August 16 2013 13:51 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:
On August 16 2013 13:44 ptbl wrote:
On August 16 2013 13:36 dcemuser wrote:
On August 16 2013 13:35 ptbl wrote: Take has the right to be angry. He is the "injured" party. It wasn't take who revealed the private conversations without the other parties consent nor notification.
Irrelevant. She stepped on toes (while painting him as a good person), he stepped over the line.
uhh, Genna exposed the fact that Liquid needed monetary support to send players to the ATC final. Take told Genna the information in confidence, but she revealed it without proper notification nor consent.
So, what do you mean it made Take look good. Airing dirty laundry is never good.
Take volunteered to pay thousands of dollars to help Axiom come to ATC.
On August 16 2013 13:51 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:
On August 16 2013 13:44 ptbl wrote:
On August 16 2013 13:36 dcemuser wrote:
On August 16 2013 13:35 ptbl wrote: Take has the right to be angry. He is the "injured" party. It wasn't take who revealed the private conversations without the other parties consent nor notification.
Irrelevant. She stepped on toes (while painting him as a good person), he stepped over the line.
uhh, Genna exposed the fact that Liquid needed monetary support to send players to the ATC final. Take told Genna the information in confidence, but she revealed it without proper notification nor consent.
So, what do you mean it made Take look good. Airing dirty laundry is never good.
Take volunteered to pay thousands of dollars to help Axiom come to ATC.
No he didn't.
as they are public might aswell
Dennis : okay i see but lets be honest thier chances doing pretty okay at the finale are there if we cant find a deal at all it would be the worst solution right? the point is i dont have big budgets that i can pay from my own pocket 3-4-5 flights
Genna : Worst case scenario, we forfeit and Millenium takes our slot.
Dennis : but before a team is not coming i really wanna help and even willing to pay some of my money into it thats why i ask i just try to find options
Genna : I'll have to talk to John about it to see if we have anything leftover from our sponsor pool for the month.
Dennis : okay and i will talk to acer about it if they would cover another 1500+ i think i am willing to help to on top
"If Acer will pay an additional fee I will try and help" is not the same thing.
On August 16 2013 14:19 Aylear wrote: TB's thoughts on Genna's retirement went mostly unnoticed in this thread, but it really is superb and everyone should listen to it.
Sanctimony in stereo guys, worth a listen just for that.
The one positive is he promises to take a step back from TL/reddit and twitter now so at least he might stop putting his foot in his mouth all the time.
If I don't have to read retarded shit from you guys then it'll probably be the best thing that's ever happened to me.
On August 16 2013 14:53 Terran1234 wrote: So Axiom/Genna and TaKe sides both have miscommunication that leads to Axiom not participating. Nothing major here, happens all the time in business. Next step is Axiom throwing TaKe infront of the bus, posting private business messages on a internet forum portraying them as the "innocent" side while their only motivation to do so is polish their image. Maybe their reasons was that "we are not participating anymore so might aswell portray us in better light". Maybe she was naieve.
They dont even consider that TaKe was oblivious to their mistake, and probably had buffered Acer that "really famous TB and his succesfull team is participating and it will give us a lot of publicity" to increase Acer contribution to the tournament. Then out of the blue he gets informed they wont participate, then post their private messages and portray him in bad light. Now he lost a major team in the tournament, got screwed over by selfish motives and got trouble with his main sponsor.
Maybe if TotalBiscuit looked from TaKes eyes he would be less mad about words said in anger.
The only people that could possibly believe Take was thrown under the bus by Gennas post with the chatlogs are people that didn't bother to read it. There's nothing in that post that makes Acer or Take look bad, in fact quite the opposite. The original statement was causing confusion and people were lashing out, the second post was meant to clarify the situation and share the facts to show how it could have possibly got to that point. Acer looked GOOD in that post, so did Take. Sure, mistakes were made on the communication front but that post showed that all parties had worked really hard to try and solve the situation. Axiom was getting crucified over it for no apparent reason and Gennas duty as manager was to do what she could to alleviate that. She did exactly what any other team owner would have done in that situation, tried to clear the air.
As we have seen though, the reason why we're dishonest with the community is because apparently they can't handle the truth and it causes more problems than it solves. You guys crave openness and detailed statements but lose your shit when you get them? You demand detailed explanations from people like MLG when they make statements like "Hey, we're not doing SC2 at Columbus"? This is why you don't get them, because if you found out everything you'd lose your shit.
When i read Intricacy first blog about ATC i was wondering if Dennis would be ok with that. There were some serious damaging stuff in it. For example: ( i already promised liquid quiet some time ago that i will pay some extracost which actually was planed to get paid by acer but they refused this) This makes Acer look very bad. I really hope this incident won't have any effect of further sponsering of acer... I don't know what happened there but that is not something that you should make public before talking to dennis. You should NEVER make PRIVATE conversations public without the permission of the people involved.
Everyone in the community should be thankful to what you Intricacy have done for the community and the players. I am sad that you leave but i am also very disappointed how you leave on the same time. We all know dennis is very passionate and emotional. I am sure that he didn't mean the part with the legal actions. That was not very professional and not very nice towards you. It's a mistake of him but it is at least understanable since he thinks you broke his trust. What you did with this post on the other hand that's probably more serious than you think. You damage the reputation of one of the hardest working people in e-sports. You indirectly blaming him for your retirement and i am sure that this incident wasn't the main reason. You damaging dennis sponser which will influnce acer's future sponserships for his company. And last but not least you are not admitting your mistake of publishing PRIVATE conversations without consent and do it again...
On August 16 2013 18:23 SamuelGreen wrote: Here are all the comments from TB so far, which should clarify some for people that dont seem to know a lot about the situation. I really think its worth reading before you throw shit at him:
This is not how a thread in a forum works. Don't do that.
Firstly, to clear up some of the thoughts flying about TaKe's 'threat' to sue. Firstly, the basis of private law, be it Germany, the US or Antarctica, is that if you can prove that someone did something to hurt your interests, you have a case. However, in this case, it is obvious that TaKe was simply furious because a) Axiom cancelled, and b) despite his decent attempt at damage control, it spiraled into a shit storm which might very well tarnish his image with Acer, but even so, the notion of him taking legal action is absolutely silly. It is obvious that he simply said it in a moment of rage - something he should not have done, as understandable as it is to be uber pissed off at this stage after so much work and effort.
TB's 'attack dog' approach is childish and misguided. Calling TaKe dishonest, incompetent and trying to save face is not only extremely rude and out of line, it is also hypocritical, because the reason why Genna posted the chat logs in the first place was for her to save face. Yes, TaKe's staff should have sent that email, but the 1,500$ per team was PUBLIC KNOWLEDGE by March - the fact that you didn't know about it, and didn't bother clarifying, is more of a mistake on your part. It is not your job to read TL threads, but it is your job as team manager to know this information, and if you don't know it, make sure to ask about it. The assumption that in the absence of an email stating otherwise, that TaKe would enter into thousands of euros of expenses to fly your team from Korea to Germany and back, whilst paying for the team's food and hotels and transportation, is negligent. But it's ok, everyone makes mistakes. A few people from the community were annoyed and disappointed by it, but I do believe there was an overreaction on Axiom's side at this point. There were no crucifixions and angry mobs, just some people stating their disappointment - that's not hate. People who are in the limelight should make sure that they have somewhat of a thick skin, otherwise, yes, you will be facing a shitload of stress and pressure.
It's a pity you didn't think of solving this privately before going to war with TaKe. I hope both parties can man up and issue a public apology.
Genna leaving Axiom is a huge hit to the team, I hope what this really means is that she no longer will be at the forefront, she'll just manage from the background. She's an amazing person with admirable passion, and I wish her all the luck in whatever she's doing.
And Please TB, stop treating people in here like idiots. I'm sure that managing an eSports team is stressful, but you're not the only people in the world facing stress, depression and insurmountable odds at the workplace. Not everyone here is a prepubescent kid with no responsibilities in life and whose career highlight is stacking products at a supermarket. eSports is not the only business where despite all your efforts, you get the rage of thousands of people barreling towards you, or the disdain of an ungrateful boss who gets rich off the sweat of your back. You should be thankful that most threats in the eSports industry, legal or otherwise, are, in the 99.9999999% of the cases, just empty talk. I'm sure there are people here who work in more sensitive, and volatile industries, so stop insulting people in here, and treating them as though no one here knows what living in a (non-literal) hell means. It's insulting.
Somebody got mad.. I mean, wtf, why not let Acer get actually mad if they think it's so serious, instead of getting mad on their behalf in advance. Seriously, learn to read people. How could it make Acer look bad? This is actually a great example of what is wrong with esports - everybody gives too much fucks about image and brand perception.
On August 16 2013 18:39 mikkmagro wrote: Firstly, to clear up some of the thoughts flying about TaKe's 'threat' to sue. Firstly, the basis of private law, be it Germany, the US or Antarctica, is that if you can prove that someone did something to hurt your interests, you have a case. However, in this case, it is obvious that TaKe was simply furious because a) Axiom cancelled, and b) despite his decent attempt at damage control, it spiraled into a shit storm which might very well tarnish his image with Acer, but even so, the notion of him taking legal action is absolutely silly. It is obvious that he simply said it in a moment of rage - something he should not have done, as understandable as it is to be uber pissed off at this stage after so much work and effort.
TB's 'attack dog' approach is childish and misguided. Calling TaKe dishonest, incompetent and trying to save face is not only extremely rude and out of line, it is also hypocritical, because the reason why Genna posted the chat logs in the first place was for her to save face. Yes, TaKe's staff should have sent that email, but the 1,500$ per team was PUBLIC KNOWLEDGE by March - the fact that you didn't know about it, and didn't bother clarifying, is more of a mistake on your part. It is not your job to read TL threads, but it is your job as team manager to know this information, and if you don't know it, make sure to ask about it. The assumption that in the absence of an email stating otherwise, that TaKe would enter into thousands of euros of expenses to fly your team from Korea to Germany and back, whilst paying for the team's food and hotels and transportation, is negligent. But it's ok, everyone makes mistakes. A few people from the community were annoyed and disappointed by it, but I do believe there was an overreaction on Axiom's side at this point. There were no crucifixions and angry mobs, just some people stating their disappointment - that's not hate. People who are in the limelight should make sure that they have somewhat of a thick skin, otherwise, yes, you will be facing a shitload of stress and pressure.
It's a pity you didn't think of solving this privately before going to war with TaKe. I hope both parties can man up and issue a public apology.
Genna leaving Axiom is a huge hit to the team, I hope what this really means is that she no longer will be at the forefront, she'll just manage from the background. She's an amazing person with admirable passion, and I wish her all the luck in whatever she's doing.
And Please TB, stop treating people in here like idiots. I'm sure that managing an eSports team is stressful, but you're not the only people in the world facing stress, depression and insurmountable odds at the workplace. Not everyone here is a prepubescent kid with no responsibilities in life and whose career highlight is stacking products at a supermarket. eSports is not the only business where despite all your efforts, you get the rage of thousands of people barreling towards you, or the disdain of an ungrateful boss who gets rich off the sweat of your back. You should be thankful that most threats in the eSports industry, legal or otherwise, are, in the 99.9999999% of the cases, just empty talk. I'm sure there are people here who work in more sensitive, and volatile industries, so stop insulting people in here, and treating them as though no one here knows what living in a (non-literal) hell means. It's insulting.
thank you for sharing your thoughts. You couldn't have said it better.
On August 16 2013 18:39 mikkmagro wrote: It's a pity you didn't think of solving this privately before going to war with TaKe. I hope both parties can man up and issue a public apology.
i hope Take remains silent because he really has nothing to do with Gennas retirement, and will only get attacked by TB if he says anything more, he is not even allowed to be angry at a breach of trust...
I never write anything on TL, but here everything just look way too stupid.
Would take a thousands of words to explain the story but anyways, why do you quoto a private conversation again when you retire ? You want to "hurt" him ? make him feel bad ? Who are you to do that, seriously. As he said it's simply not allowed.
And as I know all the story, I can tell that your management has simply be terrible. When you don't answer to a shit tons of mail during a shit tons of day, you can't blame or say anything to anyone.
All of it is simply retarded to me, and your reaction aswell. It's like two kids fighting. "but he started first, buuuuuh, he is a very bad bad boy"
That might look a bit naughty but everything is fine =)
Have fun at your next job, hope it will make you happier !
All of it was ofc my own opinion and nobody should take it personnaly
Would take a thousands of words to explain the story but anyways, why do you quoto a private conversation again when you retire ? You want to "hurt" him ? make him feel bad ? Who are you to do that, seriously. As he said it's simply not allowed.
I can see why Take would not want the second log to go public but why the harsh reaction about the first one? It did show him and Acer acting in the best way possible, trying to help fix a problem they had not caused. Secrecy for secrecy's sake?
On August 16 2013 18:39 mikkmagro wrote: Firstly, to clear up some of the thoughts flying about TaKe's 'threat' to sue. Firstly, the basis of private law, be it Germany, the US or Antarctica, is that if you can prove that someone did something to hurt your interests, you have a case. However, in this case, it is obvious that TaKe was simply furious because a) Axiom cancelled, and b) despite his decent attempt at damage control, it spiraled into a shit storm which might very well tarnish his image with Acer, but even so, the notion of him taking legal action is absolutely silly. It is obvious that he simply said it in a moment of rage - something he should not have done, as understandable as it is to be uber pissed off at this stage after so much work and effort.
TB's 'attack dog' approach is childish and misguided. Calling TaKe dishonest, incompetent and trying to save face is not only extremely rude and out of line, it is also hypocritical, because the reason why Genna posted the chat logs in the first place was for her to save face. Yes, TaKe's staff should have sent that email, but the 1,500$ per team was PUBLIC KNOWLEDGE by March - the fact that you didn't know about it, and didn't bother clarifying, is more of a mistake on your part. It is not your job to read TL threads, but it is your job as team manager to know this information, and if you don't know it, make sure to ask about it. The assumption that in the absence of an email stating otherwise, that TaKe would enter into thousands of euros of expenses to fly your team from Korea to Germany and back, whilst paying for the team's food and hotels and transportation, is negligent. But it's ok, everyone makes mistakes. A few people from the community were annoyed and disappointed by it, but I do believe there was an overreaction on Axiom's side at this point. There were no crucifixions and angry mobs, just some people stating their disappointment - that's not hate. People who are in the limelight should make sure that they have somewhat of a thick skin, otherwise, yes, you will be facing a shitload of stress and pressure.
It's a pity you didn't think of solving this privately before going to war with TaKe. I hope both parties can man up and issue a public apology.
Genna leaving Axiom is a huge hit to the team, I hope what this really means is that she no longer will be at the forefront, she'll just manage from the background. She's an amazing person with admirable passion, and I wish her all the luck in whatever she's doing.
And Please TB, stop treating people in here like idiots. I'm sure that managing an eSports team is stressful, but you're not the only people in the world facing stress, depression and insurmountable odds at the workplace. Not everyone here is a prepubescent kid with no responsibilities in life and whose career highlight is stacking products at a supermarket. eSports is not the only business where despite all your efforts, you get the rage of thousands of people barreling towards you, or the disdain of an ungrateful boss who gets rich off the sweat of your back. You should be thankful that most threats in the eSports industry, legal or otherwise, are, in the 99.9999999% of the cases, just empty talk. I'm sure there are people here who work in more sensitive, and volatile industries, so stop insulting people in here, and treating them as though no one here knows what living in a (non-literal) hell means. It's insulting.
Well said. Actually, I really, really do not like when professional COMPANIES (which is what a team is) provide clarifications or the posting of chatlogs. Posting this sort of information would annoy me too, because it implies that everything I write in skype can be published - and be honest, in business you can say hard words 'off the record', but you tone-down when you know that half the world can see what you're writing. In any other industry, this would be considered a breach of trust, childish and not professional. Maybe it is because I'm a little older, but I'm really getting ticked-off by professionals engaging in this behaviour. Contrast this with everything that happened between Idra and EG - there was nothing, not a single bad word, reasonable responses on both sides, and Idra (and EG) refusing to trash-talk on each other. If Axiom and Take would have just TALKED to each other beforehand, and put-out a JOINT statement about Axiom not able to go, everything would be fine.
Again, maybe this is a clash between German and English/American culture, but in Germany privacy is a very highly appreciated good. You can blurr your house from Google maps, you can't just photograph people on the street without their permission, etc. Even if no harm was intended (or done), I would also be ticked-off if someone posted my chat-logs, and I'm not even German! (lived there for a long time though) Yeah, threatening with lawsuits is silly - he was angry at that point, and what you need to do is calm down, not talk for 2 days and have a phonecall. All will be fine then.
Really, all of this has nothing to do with any professionalism whatsoever. Really, just have a look at EG and TL - they are professional teams, that put out honest and well-thought-out press releases. This means a lot less drama, and higher trust from sponsors, etc. If I were Acer (a large company), I'd be in disbelief that my professional partners argue openly online with chatlogs and whatever. I've (involuntarily) a mediator between companies with conflicts of interest, with harsh words being said on both sides (including legal threats), but I've never, ever seen something fall-out in a childish way as this. This whole fiasco agains shows that there are only a few professional teams out there, and with this Axiom hasn't really improved their ranking, unfortunately.
On August 16 2013 18:39 mikkmagro wrote: Firstly, to clear up some of the thoughts flying about TaKe's 'threat' to sue. Firstly, the basis of private law, be it Germany, the US or Antarctica, is that if you can prove that someone did something to hurt your interests, you have a case. However, in this case, it is obvious that TaKe was simply furious because a) Axiom cancelled, and b) despite his decent attempt at damage control, it spiraled into a shit storm which might very well tarnish his image with Acer, but even so, the notion of him taking legal action is absolutely silly. It is obvious that he simply said it in a moment of rage - something he should not have done, as understandable as it is to be uber pissed off at this stage after so much work and effort.
TB's 'attack dog' approach is childish and misguided. Calling TaKe dishonest, incompetent and trying to save face is not only extremely rude and out of line, it is also hypocritical, because the reason why Genna posted the chat logs in the first place was for her to save face. Yes, TaKe's staff should have sent that email, but the 1,500$ per team was PUBLIC KNOWLEDGE by March - the fact that you didn't know about it, and didn't bother clarifying, is more of a mistake on your part. It is not your job to read TL threads, but it is your job as team manager to know this information, and if you don't know it, make sure to ask about it. The assumption that in the absence of an email stating otherwise, that TaKe would enter into thousands of euros of expenses to fly your team from Korea to Germany and back, whilst paying for the team's food and hotels and transportation, is negligent. But it's ok, everyone makes mistakes. A few people from the community were annoyed and disappointed by it, but I do believe there was an overreaction on Axiom's side at this point. There were no crucifixions and angry mobs, just some people stating their disappointment - that's not hate. People who are in the limelight should make sure that they have somewhat of a thick skin, otherwise, yes, you will be facing a shitload of stress and pressure.
It's a pity you didn't think of solving this privately before going to war with TaKe. I hope both parties can man up and issue a public apology.
Genna leaving Axiom is a huge hit to the team, I hope what this really means is that she no longer will be at the forefront, she'll just manage from the background. She's an amazing person with admirable passion, and I wish her all the luck in whatever she's doing.
And Please TB, stop treating people in here like idiots. I'm sure that managing an eSports team is stressful, but you're not the only people in the world facing stress, depression and insurmountable odds at the workplace. Not everyone here is a prepubescent kid with no responsibilities in life and whose career highlight is stacking products at a supermarket. eSports is not the only business where despite all your efforts, you get the rage of thousands of people barreling towards you, or the disdain of an ungrateful boss who gets rich off the sweat of your back. You should be thankful that most threats in the eSports industry, legal or otherwise, are, in the 99.9999999% of the cases, just empty talk. I'm sure there are people here who work in more sensitive, and volatile industries, so stop insulting people in here, and treating them as though no one here knows what living in a (non-literal) hell means. It's insulting.
*signed a hundred times
going against Dennis is .... to say the least just bullshit.
Everyhing I always hear from the Bains is complaints, complaints, complaints.. but they don't do it better.
I can understand Dennis attitude, you simple DON'T RELEASE A PRIVATE CONVERSATION BEFORE SPEAKING TO EACH OTHER!!!! This makes me so angry...
She is talking shit about Dennis, but in fact she screwed up. o_0
Would take a thousands of words to explain the story but anyways, why do you quoto a private conversation again when you retire ? You want to "hurt" him ? make him feel bad ? Who are you to do that, seriously. As he said it's simply not allowed.
I can see why Take would not want the second log to go public but why the harsh reaction about the first one? It did show him and Acer acting in the best way possible, trying to help fix a problem they had not caused. Secrecy for secrecy's sake?
Yes. As I said above, it's a German thing, and it comes across as hugely unprofessional. I'm not the one who's getting mad easily (on the contrary), but I'd also be fucking pissed off about this...
"I can understand Dennis attitude, you simple DON'T RELEASE A PRIVATE CONVERSATION BEFORE SPEAKING TO EACH OTHER!!!! This makes me so angry..." Thats it, exactly. This is a lack of respect from her, or idk but something wrong. It's.. just wow.
Would take a thousands of words to explain the story but anyways, why do you quoto a private conversation again when you retire ? You want to "hurt" him ? make him feel bad ? Who are you to do that, seriously. As he said it's simply not allowed.
I can see why Take would not want the second log to go public but why the harsh reaction about the first one? It did show him and Acer acting in the best way possible, trying to help fix a problem they had not caused. Secrecy for secrecy's sake?
Yes. As I said above, it's a German thing, and it comes across as hugely unprofessional. I'm not the one who's getting mad easily (on the contrary), but I'd also be fucking pissed off about this...
I think most reasonable people will agree, German or not, that you don't post private conversations online, especially not in a professional setting.
Just listened to TBs thoughts on the issue. I really hope u will get better Genna. Soul issues are the hardest, cause there is not a lot of wisdom about this things any more in the so called "modern world". Look up, look as high as you can. There you will find not only hope but everything that you are lacking at the moment. Best wishes!
On August 16 2013 18:56 Dayshi wrote: why do you quoto a private conversation again when you retire ? You want to "hurt" him ? make him feel bad ? Who are you to do that, seriously. As he said it's simply not allowed.
It's the Slayer's curse ! Remember when Slayer's disbanded how Jessica threw shit at everyone on earth starting from ESF and down to her own players... It's certainly a little bit more subtile this time but looks like everyone in this scene needs a scapegoat anytime he has to justify his own difficulties and save face.
The irony is that anytime TB et alii come to post something it's to rant on internet trolls because they don't respect others. How is posting professional exchanges between two companies any better? You have to defend yourself against internet hate ? - Sure, but certainly not by walking on others !
Sad it hurts Take because he tries hard to bring not only good matches but original tournament formats.
And come on - ATC looked from the start like a small experimental event, even if you believed that every expenses will be paid you have at least to be suspicious about the final solvency of the whole thing and discuss more precisely these matters beforehand.
Topic: So you will be doing it from the back as before? Ok, but throwing more shit in the air and then try to push it in the "oh this wasn't meant to embarass someone.."-corner looks like shittalk in middleschool. *edit* oh, and it was cleary you that fucked up this shit with posting private chat without asking all involved parties. Doesn't count that Acer was ok with it...what if not is the question. In Dennis' case it was not ok for him. So don't try to put the ball in his corner *edit*
TB-Rage: For someone that yells at everyone for being unprofessional, acting like idiots and all that stuff you're pretty good at being one of the total douchebags you are bragging about everyday. But keep on treating everyone like they don't know what kind of stress and problems you are facing. I'm pretty sure there is no other human being out there that is in a comparable positon (or even worse). If you want to be professional learn to handle your shit without looking like an enraged rhino: "Uh I will never deal again with him".. Grow up. Some of my business partners where driving (sometimes successful) lawsuits against me and we still work with each other because it would be fucking silly to not to. Be thankful if you can do stunts like this and simply never work again with people if you don't want to. If E-sports gets bigger and more professional this "solution" will not work out good for you in most cases. When this happens, pls remember your "stress" to simply not work with ppl. you personally don't like.
Nice timewaster for the last 30 minutes... have to say. The backfire will also be "funny to deal with".
Irrespective of the Take situation and anyones opinions on what's really just a few misunderstandings it's very sad news for the industry to lose Genna, what she has done with Axiom is truly amazing.
I remember reading the concept of the team and how it all formed; I knew at that point that it was the best of intentions made Axiom a reality and the conditions they provide to their players are remarkable for their size.
I wish Genna all the best, I hope that her medical conditions can be improved quickly and that in the future she can be involved in the team and the industry once again. <3 to the Bains and Axiom.
On August 16 2013 18:56 Dayshi wrote: why do you quoto a private conversation again when you retire ? You want to "hurt" him ? make him feel bad ? Who are you to do that, seriously. As he said it's simply not allowed.
It's the Slayer's curse ! Remember when Slayer's disbanded how Jessica threw shit at everyone on earth starting from ESF and down to her own players... It's certainly a little bit more subtile this time but looks like everyone in this scene needs a scapegoat anytime he has to justify his own difficulties and save face.
The irony is that anytime TB et alii come to post something it's to rant on internet trolls because they don't respect others. How is posting professional exchanges between two companies any better? You have to defend yourself against internet hate ? - Sure, but certainly not by walking on others !
Sad it hurts Take because he tries hard to bring not only good matches but original tournament formats.
And come on - ATC looked from the start like a small experimental event, even if you believed that every expenses will be paid you have at least to be suspicious about the final solvency of the whole thing and discuss more precisely these matters beforehand.
He's just a giant hypocrite. And no, I didn't take the test. He will react negatively to what people say, say they shouldn't act like that, that the community is toxic, then respond by being equally toxic, if not more so due to his visibility (I won't say standing).
He's also the "PR co-ordinator" for Axiom. I guess that job doesn't involve co-ordinating the things that are said by the team manager.
If you contribute to creating a toxic, radioactive scene
Pot. Kettle. Darker than most people in the crowd.
Take did nothing wrong in my eyes later on. Genna wanted to harm the reputation of his organization by posting sensitive information without asking him. It basically made everyone there, except Take, look bad. It's like taking a photo of someone in a bad mood and uploading it to the internet without asking him. He is a public person but is this really right? You may take legal action but not self-administered justice. And I'm pretty sure theres only a part of the conversation posted on TL and not the whole one for a reason. Very unprofessional from both sides in my eyes.
This is a god damned shame and a massive loss to e-sports. I have faith in TB's ability and passion, but that doesn't undermine your contribution. Thank you for your efforts Genna, we're sorry to see you go .
On August 16 2013 18:25 StarGalaxy wrote: When i read Intricacy first blog about ATC i was wondering if Dennis would be ok with that. There were some serious damaging stuff in it. For example: ( i already promised liquid quiet some time ago that i will pay some extracost which actually was planed to get paid by acer but they refused this) This makes Acer look very bad. I really hope this incident won't have any effect of further sponsering of acer... I don't know what happened there but that is not something that you should make public before talking to dennis. You should NEVER make PRIVATE conversations public without the permission of the people involved.
Bullshit. This isn't private at all. This is business. Don't tell lies or dirty secrets if you don't want them out there.
Take shouldn't say stuff that might make Acer look bad. It's his sponsor. Besides, this situation probably was his fuck up to start with - he planned on Acer paying something they never agreed upon. Rather stupid. In any case, Acer supports esports with their money, which is awesome. Not sure how anything could make them look bad...
And again, if there's no non-disclosure agreement, everything is fair game.
In general, I can't believe the shit TL is giving TB et al , starting page one with remarks like this;
On August 16 2013 12:47 geokilla wrote: Axiom is screwed. Slayers is dead. Again. Genna is avoiding the problem instead of facing it.
Are you fucking seriously? All most people here have ever done for this passion of ours is ruin its taste by pissing all over it. Thank you so much.
Posting private conversations (multiple times now) is a disgrace. Even someone like Genna must realise that, so this is nothing more than a poor smear campaign. Unfortunately this probably isn't enough to sue for, although I'm no expert on German law.
Just read some post about some "Team comes first"-stuff. If that means you leak private chats without asking involved parties in order to "protect your Team" and your own credibility: Good luck with that in the future. At least some people will have a serious look at what they are texting with someone that acts like this.
On August 16 2013 20:03 Passion wrote: And again, if there's no non-disclosure agreement, everything is fair game.
Do you ask your friends to sign non-disclosure agreements every time you tell them something you might not want them to write on facebook that you said? No, you probably don't, because there's mutual trust and understanding, which is important in business as well.
On August 16 2013 12:58 Joedaddy wrote: Pretty shitty move when you make what one presumed to be a private conversation public. Even if you didn't think it was a big deal, Dennis obviously did.
Fuck Dennis. If he wasn't so concerned about saving face rather than being honest with everybody about his mismanaged tournament then some of this might not have happened. When you say "I hope there are legal consequences for what you've done" all bets are off, I lose any respect I've had for you. I hope Take enjoyed the free casting and the numbers, I'll never deal with him and his organisation ever again.
There were many small things in the past that made me feel that Take's company is kind of unprofessional, but I never had any proof. Now, threatening to sue someone in a scene as small as SC2 - what the fuck. I don't feel like supporting his company via watching anymore after reading this. There seems to be some serious bullshiting going on behind the scenes, and I will keep my views down to the professional streams then. Before reading this post, I felt like "Hm, I kinda don't like what take is doing, but hey, it's still a good portion of scene support and stuff". Well, Take lost at least one viewer permanently now, which is me.
Bullshit. This isn't private at all. This is business. Don't tell lies or dirty secrets if you don't want them out there.
Take shouldn't say stuff that might make Acer look bad. It's his sponsor. Besides, this situation probably was his fuck up to start with - he planned on Acer paying something they never agreed upon. Rather stupid. In any case, Acer supports esports with their money, which is awesome. Not sure how anything could make them look bad...
And again, if there's no non-disclosure agreement, everything is fair game.
...and how much experience in business do you exactly have? This absolutely NOT fair game. If anything gets released to the public about something to do with you and a partner (one you'd like to cooperate with in the future, that is), you normally FIRST send it to the partner and then make it public, and you never, never, ever release direct quotes from emails, transcripts from phonecalls or chatlogs. You. Do. Not. Do. This.
Not a serious organization in the world will release phonecalls, emails or chatlogs between companies. As I said above, I've been a mediator between parties in dispute over some things, and things like this are a huge, huge no-no. It is better to get a lawyer and sue someone, than to throw dirt. By hiring a lawyer at least you show that you're serious, if you throw dirt you kinda show that you're a douchebag.
Maybe for the younger generation chatlogs and emails are no private information, but for business purposes they very much are. Then, later in this TL thread TB says that he will never, ever do business ever again with Take. Really, is that the attitude? This is so incredibly toxic that it is absolutely beyond any belief. The company I work for has intense competition and even lawsuits going on against their competitors - yet do they work together where they can? Hell yes.
You only isolate yourself with this kind of Scorched-Earth approach, and you'll drive yourself out of business. Get a PR manager, someone with a boiling point that is considerably higher than yours, TB - and give him full control over the shit you're posting online, because you're incredibly damaging to the team and the scene. TB, you're an awesome person with lots of passion, but just leave the hate, ok?
I wonder how TB would respond if the roles were changed though. If Take would put skype logs online saying WASDkeyboards or any other axiom sponsor don't want to pay for expenses and stuff like that. Pretty sure it would be a lot worse than whatever happened now.
Btw Take never really said he's gonna sue Genna.. he said about him hoping theres gonna be some legal action, this doesnt mean he's gonna sue. I understand him being upset you just don't spread private conversations about each other's sponsors or business.
Conclusion: Bad move to spread private conversations and overreaction on the reaction. I feel bad for the players if something would happen to Axiom. Going from Slayers shitfest into a new one.. shame.
On August 16 2013 20:03 Passion wrote: And again, if there's no non-disclosure agreement, everything is fair game.
Do you ask your friends to sign non-disclosure agreements every time you tell them something you might not want them to write on facebook that you said? No, you probably don't, because there's mutual trust and understanding, which is important in business as well.
Edit: Why I'm reacting to this I'm not entirely sure - it's an utterly retarded comparison. As I stated before, this isn't private but pure business. Companies don't have moral values, companies don't know ethics, it's the whole reason we've created companies - so we can fuck each other over without getting personal. Anyway, here it comes;
I wouldn't say things I'd be embarrassed to have published. Also, unless I specifically state that this shouldn't be made public (which you can consider an NDA), I couldn't be mad about this happening.
Finally, if I'd treat them in such manner or threaten them with all kinds of stuff, I'd be slightly naive to expect them to keep it to themselves.
On August 16 2013 18:25 StarGalaxy wrote: When i read Intricacy first blog about ATC i was wondering if Dennis would be ok with that. There were some serious damaging stuff in it. For example: ( i already promised liquid quiet some time ago that i will pay some extracost which actually was planed to get paid by acer but they refused this) This makes Acer look very bad. I really hope this incident won't have any effect of further sponsering of acer... I don't know what happened there but that is not something that you should make public before talking to dennis. You should NEVER make PRIVATE conversations public without the permission of the people involved.
Bullshit. This isn't private at all. This is business. Don't tell lies or dirty secrets if you don't want them out there.
Take shouldn't say stuff that might make Acer look bad. It's his sponsor. Besides, this situation probably was his fuck up to start with - he planned on Acer paying something they never agreed upon. Rather stupid. In any case, Acer supports esports with their money, which is awesome. Not sure how anything could make them look bad...
And again, if there's no non-disclosure agreement, everything is fair game.
In general, I can't believe the shit TL is giving TB et al , starting page one with remarks like this;
On August 16 2013 12:47 geokilla wrote: Axiom is screwed. Slayers is dead. Again. Genna is avoiding the problem instead of facing it.
Are you fucking seriously? All most people here have ever done for this passion of ours is ruin its taste by pissing all over it. Thank you so much.
So i assume you dont run a business? Every business conversation is by default private, thats not a law but common sense and you basically digging a hole for yourself and your business. Now esports is a mess anyway but in any other industry you would be fucked cause no one would want to work with you again unless you come with deals they cant resist.
You dont bring your dirty laundry to the public, you handle it like grown up business folk and take responsibility for your own faults and dont blame others cause some people are upset and it makes you look bad. Take it like a grown up.
Btw what lies and dirty secrets did Take say? All i read is that Genna assumed the travel costs would be paid fully cause she didn't hear otherwise and Take tried to help to make something out of it. Axiom didn't get the travel funds and Genna lost her mind and thought it would be smart to make private conversations public where everyone can read that she fucked up.
Your a Axiom fan or something and i get that but your really making yourself look foolish with defending this crap.
On August 16 2013 20:03 Passion wrote: And again, if there's no non-disclosure agreement, everything is fair game.
Do you ask your friends to sign non-disclosure agreements every time you tell them something you might not want them to write on facebook that you said? No, you probably don't, because there's mutual trust and understanding, which is important in business as well.
Edit: Why I'm reacting to this I'm not entirely sure - it's an utterly retarded comparison. As I stated before, this isn't private but pure business. Companies don't have moral values, companies don't know ethics, it's the whole reason we've created companies - so we can fuck each other over without getting personal. Anyway, here it comes;
I wouldn't say things I'd be embarrassed to have published. Also, unless I specifically state that this shouldn't be made public (which you can consider an NDA), I couldn't be mad about this happening.
Finally, if I'd treat them in such manner or threaten them with all kinds of stuff, I'd be retarded to expect them to keep it to themselves.
Are you fucking trolling? Good luck trying to find a company who agrees with you. Things said over the phone or in chat are strictly 'off the record', and should not be made public. There's a reason why companies have a PR manager. Again, read the chats - Take didn't threat anything - he said he hopes that legal action will be taken. There is literally no threat there. And yes, companies regularly play with these sort of words, and no, they do not make these public.
Hey this is the first time i gonna put a statement her to the whole situation after the statements.
I don t get why this had to happen and Genna now gonna leave it but she might be even more emotional than me but then i dont actually understand why she reacted like this - everyone is different but here my story.
First of all i wanna appologize that i reacted emotional! This is not correct and nothing i can take back.
And now you get my 100% honest thought about the situation and this probably even pushed her to stop?
I really didnt wanna say to much about the whole situation cause i think it just hurts both sites and makes no sense at all i am always the guy who tries to find a solution together in every single way in privat at work family whatever.
So what do i do? I try to talk to people to solve problems if they happen which can always happen sometimes i fuck up sometimes someone else or whoever but in the end for me its just important to find a solution with everyone TOGETHER!
For myself i would never post privat chats which i had with someone- if its about privat stuff like friends/Girlfriend whatever even if i am angry or businessstuff like in this case cause this can hurt everyone not only one person and for myself you hurt my privacy which is very important to me.
A few things i wanna ADD. i kept talking to Genna about a statement about Axiom not attending she did saturday, sunday, monday, tuesday and i think she posted it wednesday? She never responded just saturday once she is in a broadcast or so and will come back to me later. i reminded her 5 times or more on different days and she even talked to other people that she got my messages but never wanted to answer me - and in the end she said cause of the timezones we missed each other!??! I dont know but this is pretty lame. I really hate it that i have to do a statement like this and its also kinda emotional cause all this means alot to me i have one aim doing a good job make alot of people happy and enjoy what i do but no its me getting shit because i tried to calm down for the whole situation and dont bring up any bad words about anyone cause everyone does mistakes from time to time and she publishes every single word we discussed in private about this thing - Is this what we call professional? At least i dont see that.
I will still not publish stuff she said cause even if i am angry i will just describe a little bit...
In the whole season she almost never replied to emails once she didnt answer 11 days or so? on 10 mails...as you probably realized we even had to do replaycasts cause axiom didnt play thier matches - Genna (when she answered) mentioned they have stuff to do but with the day we talked to Crank instead of her it worked perfectly fine and even the players thought they have to wait and dont have to play games even when we were pushing it alot and reminded her etc..
Its really frustrating to me tbh cause what i wanted from the start was just a statement from both sites that the situation was fucked up abit and both sites did some mistakes and no one would ever be angry so why Genna didn you try to get something solved together and now act like this? I even told you before saturday that if you do a statement please lets do it together and find the best possible way for everyone. THE MOST IMPORTANT THING!!! But lets come back to why this all started - Axiom expected us to pay 100% of the trip which we never said/Promised or even mentioned we with a single word. We cant promise stuff like this if we dont have the ressources for it. So we didnt.
We sent an email which said we have 20k pricemoney and an offline finale and they agreed to play it via mail. After they played the last playday they realize we dont pay the whole trip cause we give them a reminder that we offer 1500 and hotels and then this happens? This is very sad honestly.
How would you ever expect we can pay 4 teams fulltrips from korea and wouldnt even mention it to the teams? I think the only organizazion who can provide it is Blizzard at the moment?
One thing which was just meant as a help for the teams was the support we give and i know that the costs are very high for all teams thats why i wanted to have this support and kept talking to sponsors about it and for Season 2 we even want to raise it that was sure from the beginning but we never knew if the league will work out it was a nice try. But well our mistake was to not communicate it. We wanted and thought the mail was sent to everyone at Cebit in March but it wasn t. I am sorry about that to all teams!
But still i think if i dont communicate any help you won t expect any support at all cause you dont go to a Dreamhack or HomeStorycup and expect we pay all trips and not even tell you.
I really love what i do and i do it every day 7 days 80hours+ a week almost all over the year and only take very small breaks from esport to get some privat time and vacation etc. Cause i love esport and i appreciate it soo much that i can have a job in this business but honestly this really hurts me my motivation my heart and i am honestly sad really sad that this has to happen.
Right now i have almost all emotions in me but also i am angry about what Genna does and how she handled it.now i also wrote what i think she did wrong but if i wouldnt do it i could not live with what she did and on the same moment feel okay.
@Genna - If you finally wanna talk for the first time about the statement and how everything went seriously i am still up for it even if so much shit flew around.
Since she posted so much she also posted that i pay costs for Liquid from my own privat wallet cause the situation was not perfect and i wanted to find a solution and LIQUID kept talking to me and really wanted to find a solution. One more thing i even offered Genna that i would think about also helping them also from my own money to bring them here - She never reacted on that and tried to find a conversation about this and in the very end after she almost never replied i said okay well we cant pay it cause i already felt bad that i offer solutions and try to find options but the other site seems like they not even care.
I want to appologize to the whole community for what i did wrong and the whole situation i honestly think no one is perfect expecially me and everyone does some mistakes but this makes me look so bad cause someone probably even wanted this happen...and didnt even try to fix stuff together.
This was MY honest statement which could even have more stuff in it - Its what I think and no one else.
I ve seen comments about NOW i won t watch TaKeTV anymore which really hurted me alot tbh but i think i explained my situation and what happend if people still say okay TaKe is an Idiot i respect it and i lost viewers cause this is what i think and did cause its me.
On August 16 2013 18:25 StarGalaxy wrote: When i read Intricacy first blog about ATC i was wondering if Dennis would be ok with that. There were some serious damaging stuff in it. For example: ( i already promised liquid quiet some time ago that i will pay some extracost which actually was planed to get paid by acer but they refused this) This makes Acer look very bad. I really hope this incident won't have any effect of further sponsering of acer... I don't know what happened there but that is not something that you should make public before talking to dennis. You should NEVER make PRIVATE conversations public without the permission of the people involved.
Bullshit. This isn't private at all. This is business. Don't tell lies or dirty secrets if you don't want them out there.
Take shouldn't say stuff that might make Acer look bad. It's his sponsor. Besides, this situation probably was his fuck up to start with - he planned on Acer paying something they never agreed upon. Rather stupid. In any case, Acer supports esports with their money, which is awesome. Not sure how anything could make them look bad...
And again, if there's no non-disclosure agreement, everything is fair game.
In general, I can't believe the shit TL is giving TB et al , starting page one with remarks like this;
On August 16 2013 12:47 geokilla wrote: Axiom is screwed. Slayers is dead. Again. Genna is avoiding the problem instead of facing it.
Are you fucking seriously? All most people here have ever done for this passion of ours is ruin its taste by pissing all over it. Thank you so much.
So i assume you dont run a business? Every business conversation is by default private, thats not a law but common sense and you basically digging a hole for yourself and your business. Now esports is a mess anyway but in any other industry you would be fucked cause no one would want to work with you again unless you come with deals they cant resist.
You dont bring your dirty laundry to the public, you handle it like grown up business folk and take responsibility for your own faults and dont blame others cause some people are upset and it makes you look bad. Take it like a grown up.
Btw what lies and dirty secrets did Take say? All i read is that Genna assumed the travel costs would be paid fully cause she didn't hear otherwise and Take tried to help to make something out of it. Axiom didn't get the travel funds and Genna lost her mind and thought it would be smart to make private conversations public where everyone can read that she fucked up.
Your a Axiom fan or something and i get that but your really making yourself look foolish with defending this crap.
Three prominent community figures going at it is terrible for the scene. I don't really give a hoot who is in the right here. But I will say I'll miss Genna, however I fully respect Take wanting private discussions to stay private and also for being the bigger man and staying silent at a time when TB is doing his weekly jackass rounds.
I believe that a community where prominent community figures and the general public go hand-in-hand, is not ready for total transparency and happenings such as MLG not elaborating on their decisions is the right way to go. We are simply too close to the sun to handle truth and disputes without a shitstorm of pointlessness.
On August 16 2013 19:22 Dayshi wrote: "I can understand Dennis attitude, you simple DON'T RELEASE A PRIVATE CONVERSATION BEFORE SPEAKING TO EACH OTHER!!!! This makes me so angry..." Thats it, exactly. This is a lack of respect from her, or idk but something wrong. It's.. just wow.
i can't get it :'(
yeah exactly!
I rarely post in this forum, but this situation makes me change my mind.
Thing is: TB also thinks that he has the right to critizise everyone and everything,while he and also his wife don't understand that professional business is made in private and it is kept that way! always.
I am a project manager for a german software company, that I don't want to call by name, but believe me... If someone would release private conversations about a business partner... he would not only be fired... he would never get a job in the business again!
And this is basically what Genna did... and that makes me so angry! She could have simply called Dennis via skype and they could have had a little talk... but now you post private conversations in the public like a little child.
Fact is: It doesn't matter if she was correct or not, she didn't even talk with Dennis about the stuff... so he was angry. UNDERSTANDABLE!!!
ah man I can't comprehend the shit that is going on in the last few weeks in the SC2 scene...
To TB: You think you are the god of managing event? Man I do this for multi million dollar projects. Last project I managed, we installed our software on a pharma site that produces medicine for over 7 billion a year and you think you are doing important stuff????? Man you don't even know how it feels like to screw up, if I screw up even 5 hours in my job the companies that use our software loose millions of money... AND I AM RESPONSIBLE.
So from a professional manager: The way you behave, the way you bring your critizism to the public, especially against blizzard and in the past against "Take TV" as a company is SO unprofessional I can't even comprehend how bad you handle situations.
If you wan't bliz to change the WCS, if you want to change how business is made in esports... You have to be and make an example: Instead you publicly throw shit at everyone and everything. Which is exactly not the way you treat people that do mistakes, because then they don't have any chance to do better... And also: Everyone is waiting for one of your next mistakes..... just because: If you critizise in public, you have to do it a hundret times better of your own... And I promize you,... you will do a mistake... and I will be there waiting...
Funny thing is: I have the money and connections to support a team... I really do. I thought about it for quite a while... but what I see in the last few weeks... I changed my mind again... If I can't be certain that private conversations are kept a secret.. I can't be sure that business agreements with sponsors are kept a secret aswell...
On August 16 2013 20:33 Resilient wrote: Three prominent community figures going at it is terrible for the scene. I don't really give a hoot who is in the right here. But I will say I'll miss Genna, however I fully respect Take wanting private discussions to stay private and also for being the bigger man and staying silent at a time when TB is doing his weekly jackass rounds.
I believe that a community where prominent community figures and the general public go hand-in-hand, is not ready for total transparency and happenings such as MLG not elaborating on their decisions is the right way to go. We are simply too close to the sun to handle truth and disputes without a shitstorm of pointlessness.
One person posting a selection of private communications without talking to the other party beforehand is not "total transparency". According to Take's post, he wanted to discuss a statement prior to what eventually got said. Genna doesn't appear to have posted those up?
Total transparency isn't one party picking and choosing what they reveal without discussing it with other people first. Having one side's view isn't transparency.
Apparently Axiom have a PR co-ordinator. Must have been asleep at the wheel.
On August 16 2013 18:25 StarGalaxy wrote: When i read Intricacy first blog about ATC i was wondering if Dennis would be ok with that. There were some serious damaging stuff in it. For example: ( i already promised liquid quiet some time ago that i will pay some extracost which actually was planed to get paid by acer but they refused this) This makes Acer look very bad. I really hope this incident won't have any effect of further sponsering of acer... I don't know what happened there but that is not something that you should make public before talking to dennis. You should NEVER make PRIVATE conversations public without the permission of the people involved.
Bullshit. This isn't private at all. This is business. Don't tell lies or dirty secrets if you don't want them out there.
Take shouldn't say stuff that might make Acer look bad. It's his sponsor. Besides, this situation probably was his fuck up to start with - he planned on Acer paying something they never agreed upon. Rather stupid. In any case, Acer supports esports with their money, which is awesome. Not sure how anything could make them look bad...
And again, if there's no non-disclosure agreement, everything is fair game.
In general, I can't believe the shit TL is giving TB et al , starting page one with remarks like this;
On August 16 2013 12:47 geokilla wrote: Axiom is screwed. Slayers is dead. Again. Genna is avoiding the problem instead of facing it.
Are you fucking seriously? All most people here have ever done for this passion of ours is ruin its taste by pissing all over it. Thank you so much.
So i assume you dont run a business? Every business conversation is by default private, thats not a law but common sense and you basically digging a hole for yourself and your business. Now esports is a mess anyway but in any other industry you would be fucked cause no one would want to work with you again unless you come with deals they cant resist.
You dont bring your dirty laundry to the public, you handle it like grown up business folk and take responsibility for your own faults and dont blame others cause some people are upset and it makes you look bad. Take it like a grown up.
Btw what lies and dirty secrets did Take say? All i read is that Genna assumed the travel costs would be paid fully cause she didn't hear otherwise and Take tried to help to make something out of it. Axiom didn't get the travel funds and Genna lost her mind and thought it would be smart to make private conversations public where everyone can read that she fucked up.
Your a Axiom fan or something and i get that but your really making yourself look foolish with defending this crap.
You're funny
You're wrong in every assumption, good job!
Thanks, im here all night and good job in proofing me wrong.
On August 16 2013 20:29 TaKeSeN wrote: Hey this is the first time i gonna put a statement her to the whole situation after the statements.
[snip] //Dennis
Good post Dennis. Good job on trying to keep talking, and offering the hand to Axiom, well done. Won't really comment on specifics (bit pointless), but I appreciate your post, and like the attitude that transpires from it.
Good luck with everything, and I hope you guys can talk this out in a professional manner...
On August 16 2013 18:25 StarGalaxy wrote: When i read Intricacy first blog about ATC i was wondering if Dennis would be ok with that. There were some serious damaging stuff in it. For example: ( i already promised liquid quiet some time ago that i will pay some extracost which actually was planed to get paid by acer but they refused this) This makes Acer look very bad. I really hope this incident won't have any effect of further sponsering of acer... I don't know what happened there but that is not something that you should make public before talking to dennis. You should NEVER make PRIVATE conversations public without the permission of the people involved.
Bullshit. This isn't private at all. This is business. Don't tell lies or dirty secrets if you don't want them out there.
Take shouldn't say stuff that might make Acer look bad. It's his sponsor. Besides, this situation probably was his fuck up to start with - he planned on Acer paying something they never agreed upon. Rather stupid. In any case, Acer supports esports with their money, which is awesome. Not sure how anything could make them look bad...
And again, if there's no non-disclosure agreement, everything is fair game.
In general, I can't believe the shit TL is giving TB et al , starting page one with remarks like this;
On August 16 2013 12:47 geokilla wrote: Axiom is screwed. Slayers is dead. Again. Genna is avoiding the problem instead of facing it.
Are you fucking seriously? All most people here have ever done for this passion of ours is ruin its taste by pissing all over it. Thank you so much.
So i assume you dont run a business? Every business conversation is by default private, thats not a law but common sense and you basically digging a hole for yourself and your business. Now esports is a mess anyway but in any other industry you would be fucked cause no one would want to work with you again unless you come with deals they cant resist.
You dont bring your dirty laundry to the public, you handle it like grown up business folk and take responsibility for your own faults and dont blame others cause some people are upset and it makes you look bad. Take it like a grown up.
Btw what lies and dirty secrets did Take say? All i read is that Genna assumed the travel costs would be paid fully cause she didn't hear otherwise and Take tried to help to make something out of it. Axiom didn't get the travel funds and Genna lost her mind and thought it would be smart to make private conversations public where everyone can read that she fucked up.
Your a Axiom fan or something and i get that but your really making yourself look foolish with defending this crap.
You're funny
You're wrong in every assumption, good job!
If you're in a business that feels that it is ok to publish any information I write to you without an NDA, than I hope I do never have to do any business with you. Thuggish behaviour like this only plays in the hands of lawyers (who write NDAs), not anyone else.
On August 16 2013 20:03 Passion wrote: And again, if there's no non-disclosure agreement, everything is fair game.
Do you ask your friends to sign non-disclosure agreements every time you tell them something you might not want them to write on facebook that you said? No, you probably don't, because there's mutual trust and understanding, which is important in business as well.
Edit: Why I'm reacting to this I'm not entirely sure - it's an utterly retarded comparison. As I stated before, this isn't private but pure business. Companies don't have moral values, companies don't know ethics, it's the whole reason we've created companies - so we can fuck each other over without getting personal. Anyway, here it comes;
I wouldn't say things I'd be embarrassed to have published. Also, unless I specifically state that this shouldn't be made public (which you can consider an NDA), I couldn't be mad about this happening.
Finally, if I'd treat them in such manner or threaten them with all kinds of stuff, I'd be slightly naive to expect them to keep it to themselves.
You must have a terrible experience with businesses, and it saddens me to hear you have your own business after comments such as "companies don't know ethics". Good companies do, which is why they are good companies. Professional people know how to handle themselves in business. Just look at TL for example, could you see them in a situation such as this, leaking skype conversations publicly? Hardly.
We sent an email which said we have 20k pricemoney and an offline finale and they agreed to play it via mail. After they played the last playday they realize we dont pay the whole trip cause we give them a reminder that we offer 1500 and hotels and then this happens? This is very sad honestly.
//Dennis
This is where it all stemmed from, i keep saying it and everyone else is jumping up and down about bullshit that doesnt matter. Genna assumed this, never looked into it or had any information regarding it and everything went to shit because of it. She realised she fucked up and started trying to strawman / put blame where it wasnt (at people and other information) then all of a sudden has a breakdown and leaves the team when it doesnt work.
Its sad honestly, both that she fucked up and she has other personal / business issues not regarding the team, but its no excuse to 1) fuck up and especially 2) start throwing around private emails / walls of text that dont even matter and shitflinging at people.
This could have been solved with one line.
"I didnt realise my team would have to pay for travel and accommodation to an offline finals" Followed by "It is my fault, i assumed the costs would be paid with no information stating or remotely hinting at this and i neglected to read the email properly that informed us of an offline finals" Ending with! "Im sorry."
Instead of lying about not being told about an offline finals (in the same post she posted a private email saying there WAS an offline finals) and untold other crap.
Hopefully everyone will still support Axiom and TakeTV. If you're even considering to not do so based on this mess I'd say you are a fanatic not a fan.
On August 16 2013 20:29 TaKeSeN wrote: Hey this is the first time i gonna put a statement her to the whole situation after the statements.
I don t get why this had to happen and Genna now gonna leave it but she might be even more emotional than me but then i dont actually understand why she reacted like this - everyone is different but here my story.
First of all i wanna appologize that i reacted emotional! This is not correct and nothing i can take back.
And now you get my 100% honest thought about the situation and this probably even pushed her to stop?
I really didnt wanna say to much about the whole situation cause i think it just hurts both sites and makes no sense at all i am always the guy who tries to find a solution together in every single way in privat at work family whatever.
So what do i do? I try to talk to people to solve problems if they happen which can always happen sometimes i fuck up sometimes someone else or whoever but in the end for me its just important to find a solution with everyone TOGETHER!
For myself i would never post privat chats which i had with someone- if its about privat stuff like friends/Girlfriend whatever even if i am angry or businessstuff like in this case cause this can hurt everyone not only one person and for myself you hurt my privacy which is very important to me.
A few things i wanna ADD. i kept talking to Genna about a statement about Axiom not attending she did saturday, sunday, monday, tuesday and i think she posted it wednesday? She never responded just saturday once she is in a broadcast or so and will come back to me later. i reminded her 5 times or more on different days and she even talked to other people that she got my messages but never wanted to answer me - and in the end she said cause of the timezones we missed each other!??! I dont know but this is pretty lame. I really hate it that i have to do a statement like this and its also kinda emotional cause all this means alot to me i have one aim doing a good job make alot of people happy and enjoy what i do but no its me getting shit because i tried to calm down for the whole situation and dont bring up any bad words about anyone cause everyone does mistakes from time to time and she publishes every single word we discussed in private about this thing - Is this what we call professional? At least i dont see that.
I will still not publish stuff she said cause even if i am angry i will just describe a little bit...
In the whole season she almost never replied to emails once she didnt answer 11 days or so? on 10 mails...as you probably realized we even had to do replaycasts cause axiom didnt play thier matches - Genna (when she answered) mentioned they have stuff to do but with the day we talked to Crank instead of her it worked perfectly fine and even the players thought they have to wait and dont have to play games even when we were pushing it alot and reminded her etc..
Its really frustrating to me tbh cause what i wanted from the start was just a statement from both sites that the situation was fucked up abit and both sites did some mistakes and no one would ever be angry so why Genna didn you try to get something solved together and now act like this? I even told you before saturday that if you do a statement please lets do it together and find the best possible way for everyone. THE MOST IMPORTANT THING!!! But lets come back to why this all started - Axiom expected us to pay 100% of the trip which we never said/Promised or even mentioned we with a single word. We cant promise stuff like this if we dont have the ressources for it. So we didnt.
We sent an email which said we have 20k pricemoney and an offline finale and they agreed to play it via mail. After they played the last playday they realize we dont pay the whole trip cause we give them a reminder that we offer 1500 and hotels and then this happens? This is very sad honestly.
How would you ever expect we can pay 4 teams fulltrips from korea and wouldnt even mention it to the teams? I think the only organizazion who can provide it is Blizzard at the moment?
One thing which was just meant as a help for the teams was the support we give and i know that the costs are very high for all teams thats why i wanted to have this support and kept talking to sponsors about it and for Season 2 we even want to raise it that was sure from the beginning but we never knew if the league will work out it was a nice try. But well our mistake was to not communicate it. We wanted and thought the mail was sent to everyone at Cebit in March but it wasn t. I am sorry about that to all teams!
But still i think if i dont communicate any help you won t expect any support at all cause you dont go to a Dreamhack or HomeStorycup and expect we pay all trips and not even tell you.
I really love what i do and i do it every day 7 days 80hours+ a week almost all over the year and only take very small breaks from esport to get some privat time and vacation etc. Cause i love esport and i appreciate it soo much that i can have a job in this business but honestly this really hurts me my motivation my heart and i am honestly sad really sad that this has to happen.
Right now i have almost all emotions in me but also i am angry about what Genna does and how she handled it.now i also wrote what i think she did wrong but if i wouldnt do it i could not live with what she did and on the same moment feel okay.
@Genna - If you finally wanna talk for the first time about the statement and how everything went seriously i am still up for it even if so much shit flew around.
Since she posted so much she also posted that i pay costs for Liquid from my own privat wallet cause the situation was not perfect and i wanted to find a solution and LIQUID kept talking to me and really wanted to find a solution. One more thing i even offered Genna that i would think about also helping them also from my own money to bring them here - She never reacted on that and tried to find a conversation about this and in the very end after she almost never replied i said okay well we cant pay it cause i already felt bad that i offer solutions and try to find options but the other site seems like they not even care.
I want to appologize to the whole community for what i did wrong and the whole situation i honestly think no one is perfect expecially me and everyone does some mistakes but this makes me look so bad cause someone probably even wanted this happen...and didnt even try to fix stuff together.
This was MY honest statement which could even have more stuff in it - Its what I think and no one else.
I ve seen comments about NOW i won t watch TaKeTV anymore which really hurted me alot tbh but i think i explained my situation and what happend if people still say okay TaKe is an Idiot i respect it and i lost viewers cause this is what i think and did cause its me.
Thank you for reading my horrible text!
//Dennis
After reading this, I'm just wondering what the whole shitstorm was about. I mean, if Genna really didn't answer mails etc. And it seems like Take really tried his best to find teh best solution, but felt like the Axiom didn't really care. After putting in that much effort to get things right for both parties he sees this blogpost from Genna which puts him in a bad spotlight, including the private messages I totally get him being mad.
I appreciate what Genna did for the community/esports, and still do. But I believe this is jsut really unfortionate. And I totally get Take for being mad for seeing his private messages being posted. And then getting shat on because one sentense was completely blown out of proportion (the sueing) and his emotional reaction was ALSO posted publicly.
So what started as just a small messup with the organization of a tournament, with Take doing everything in his power to fix it, and help the people out. Genna's approach of transparancy seems to have blown this all out of proportion, hurt multiple organisations, and made this whole discussion less rational than it's ever been.
The shitstorm is genna fucked up and instead of owning up to it and being professional / responsible / mature she started throwing her toys out the pram and her faeces at people so they would take the blame.
EDIT: I mean im not trying to be rude but im extracting all of this information from Genna's own posts and information she provided within them. Why couldnt she do the same i wonder?
Although i will say that Take and co didnt explicitly state either way that they would or wouldnt pay for the teams travel, its still not on them if a team assumes either way. The thought process would basically be "Oh they didnt say if they would be paying or not. So they must be!"
We sent an email which said we have 20k pricemoney and an offline finale and they agreed to play it via mail. After they played the last playday they realize we dont pay the whole trip cause we give them a reminder that we offer 1500 and hotels and then this happens? This is very sad honestly.
//Dennis
This is where it all stemmed from, i keep saying it and everyone else is jumping up and down about bullshit that doesnt matter. Genna assumed this, never looked into it or had any information regarding it and everything went to shit because of it. She realised she fucked up and started trying to strawman / put blame where it wasnt (at people and other information) then all of a sudden has a breakdown and leaves the team when it doesnt work.
Its sad honestly, both that she fucked up and she has other personal / business issues not regarding the team, but its no excuse to 1) fuck up and especially 2) start throwing around private emails / walls of text that dont even matter and shitflinging at people.
This could have been solved with one line.
"I didnt realise my team would have to pay for travel and accommodation to an offline finals" Followed by "It is my fault, i assumed the costs would be paid with no information stating or remotely hinting at this and i neglected to read the email properly that informed us of an offline finals" Ending with! "Im sorry."
Instead of lying about not being told about an offline finals (in the same post she posted a private email saying there WAS an offline finals) and untold other crap.
Again. AssUMe
I totally agree, good communication eliminates the assuming.
what a great response from Take, still simply pursuing repair and recovery, even dismissing the breach of trust, i imagined he would just let Axion sort their problems out, but coming out still trying to reconcile takes a lot.
On August 16 2013 12:58 Joedaddy wrote: Pretty shitty move when you make what one presumed to be a private conversation public. Even if you didn't think it was a big deal, Dennis obviously did.
Fuck Dennis. If he wasn't so concerned about saving face rather than being honest with everybody about his mismanaged tournament then some of this might not have happened. When you say "I hope there are legal consequences for what you've done" all bets are off, I lose any respect I've had for you. I hope Take enjoyed the free casting and the numbers, I'll never deal with him and his organisation ever again.
There were many small things in the past that made me feel that Take's company is kind of unprofessional, but I never had any proof. Now, threatening to sue someone in a scene as small as SC2 - what the fuck. I don't feel like supporting his company via watching anymore after reading this. There seems to be some serious bullshiting going on behind the scenes, and I will keep my views down to the professional streams then. Before reading this post, I felt like "Hm, I kinda don't like what take is doing, but hey, it's still a good portion of scene support and stuff". Well, Take lost at least one viewer permanently now, which is me.
Now, after reading Takes statement, I feel a bit different. Guess I shouldn't judge before reading both sides (I just leave the TB rage apart). It feels like a mixture of unprofessional behaviour, misscommunication and maybe even some language difficulties - Take speaks a very "german" english .
Oh hell, I don't know how to judge anything here, I just hope that you guys find a solution to this and can be friends again. It's pretty hard to see who did what wrong, still - the biggest mistake in my eyes that was made was Genna pulling the trigger and quitting - because that way, the silent fart rose to a huge pile of crap, that is threatining to smother Take and TB as well.
I would suppose that you find a in-between person to calm things down (like Victor from TL maybe, or one of the EG management (those guys have a strong reputation of being professional!) and give it a real-time skypecall or so?
We had now both sides stated in this thread, and it kind of feels like it should be closed now. 99.5% percent of the readers in here, me included, have no full knowledge of the things going on behind the curtain, and fights like Take vs. Genna should be discussed privately, not publicly, as it is now.
I'm SURE she'll have no input into team affairs when her husband is the manager...lol, this seems like a political move, or that she's stepping down for show, more than anything else. As far as the ATC guy being secretive...it makes me think he's doing shady shit, otherwise he wouldn't be so paranoid.
I would suppose that you find a in-between person to calm things down (like Victor from TL maybe, or one of the EG management (those guys have a strong reputation of being professional!) and give it a real-time skypecall or so?
We had now both sides stated in this thread, and it kind of feels like it should be closed now. 99.5% percent of the readers in here, me included, have no full knowledge of the things going on behind the curtain, and fights like Take vs. Genna should be discussed privately, not publicly, as it is now.
On August 16 2013 20:29 TaKeSeN wrote: Hey this is the first time i gonna put a statement her to the whole situation after the statements.
....
Thank you for reading my horrible text!
//Dennis
Really Dennis I must back you up there. Firstly: If you ever plan to participate in a tournament with an offline possibility you always check the financial backing from the hosters side. If they are not given and you can not pay for it on your own there is absolutly no reason to accept an invite. ALSO if you do not realize early enough, like Genna and just assume something that is actually the most important thing in participating in an offline event (financial plan on trips) you CAN NOT demand the right to be payed for. Dennis even wanted to pull in some of his money (which we all know he always does when needed and never stopped doing from the very first day on he got his apartment) but STILL Genna was not able to just pull of the tournament and give the spot to Millenium. Hell even before playing the online games Dennis should just have kicked em out. It was a not professional decision by Genna hoping for a solution on the hosters side he / they never even once stated to them. Clearly in this one I have to back up Dennis not considering the health status of Genna (for which I would have wished she had already pulled out the whole e-sports thing early, as we all just want the best for her). Summing up this I can just say it is probably gone to a better way for Genna despite the bad ending.
Openly showing chats of hosters and teams also seems not the right way and I for my part will in NO way STOP supporting Dennis and his team because of this "incident". It is time for everyone to understand the urgent need for professionality if you are working as a professional. ALSO TotalBiscuit STOP taking everything personal. People have their opinion and if you do not like it fuck it ok? Do not try to defend every single shit that surrounds you...
Dennis I will never stop supporting you!!! Thanks for your honesty.
On August 16 2013 12:58 Joedaddy wrote: Pretty shitty move when you make what one presumed to be a private conversation public. Even if you didn't think it was a big deal, Dennis obviously did.
Fuck Dennis. If he wasn't so concerned about saving face rather than being honest with everybody about his mismanaged tournament then some of this might not have happened. When you say "I hope there are legal consequences for what you've done" all bets are off, I lose any respect I've had for you. I hope Take enjoyed the free casting and the numbers, I'll never deal with him and his organisation ever again.
Yeah and who was concerned about saving face when he made private conversations public? And who was conerned about saving face when he made private conversations public a second time just now? Once again the most hypocritical personality in esports acting immature while calling others so. This is like the third time you pull this exact same publicity stunt and get mad at the shitstorm community while you are the shitty wizard summoning all the shitstorm tornados got fucking dammit why dont you just leave if you hate this community so much, you said it again and again, just go. Do your youtube thing and stop causing drama where none is needed.
On August 16 2013 20:29 TaKeSeN wrote: First of all i wanna appologize that i reacted emotional! This is not correct and nothing i can take back.
I want to appologize to the whole community for what i did wrong and the whole situation i honestly think no one is perfect expecially me and everyone does some mistakes but this makes me look so bad cause someone probably even wanted this happen...and didnt even try to fix stuff together.
This was MY honest statement which could even have more stuff in it - Its what I think and no one else.
I ve seen comments about NOW i won t watch TaKeTV anymore which really hurted me alot tbh but i think i explained my situation and what happend if people still say okay TaKe is an Idiot i respect it and i lost viewers cause this is what i think and did cause its me.
//Dennis
You're the man. Keep it up, I can't frikkin wait for the ATC Finals, don't let this get you down. Even though TaKeTV is not DreamHack, MLG, ESL or a big organisation with deep pockets and resources, you always manage to put up an amazing show, rivaling the best. You don't deserve to be involved in this shitstorm.
On August 16 2013 20:29 TaKeSeN wrote: Hey this is the first time i gonna put a statement her to the whole situation after the statements.
...
Thank you for reading my horrible text!
//Dennis
Take I just hope you realize that you still have much support and love from everybody and despite a few "I won't watch TakeTV any more" comments, if you look on Reddit and TL everyone is fed up with the TB and Genna drama train, leaking private conversations and insulting people is just not the way to go, regardless of what happened.
BTW I met you at HSC, you took us to Köngisburg and you are a great and honest guy, I hope you have a great ATC and keep doing what you do, greetings to Scarlett, she looks comfy on your couch .
Edit: Let's hope since we had the first official statement from Take, this thing is finally over and we can just enjoy this weekend. I will distance myself from the drama now.
On August 16 2013 20:46 Penev wrote: Hopefully everyone will still support Axiom and TakeTV. If you're even considering to not do so based on this mess I'd say you are a fanatic not a fan.
I'll keep supporting TakeTV because Take has always been a great guy and didn't do anything wrong. I'll keep supporting Axiom because of the players, not of TB. Never been a fan of him.
On August 16 2013 21:03 baeric wrote: My only hope that this will have no consequences on both sides. It's sad that genna already quitted.
And please people let it rest. Overanalyzing the whole thing just makes it worse.
yeah, that's the only thing I want to say to this as well. I hope when the dust settles and the community moves on to the next drama (that'll happen sooner or later anyway) that everyone will be fine. I hope that ATC Finals will be a success for Take and his crew and I hope that Axiom will work well under TB and that Genna will find some rest and live a happier life after this is all over.
On August 16 2013 21:06 Musicus wrote: on Reddit and TL everyone is fed up with the TB and Genna drama train, leaking private conversations and insulting people is just not the way to go, regardless of what happened.
Take - hey, great post straight from the heart, thank you. We respect you a lot and nobody is "mad" of course... I am sure you did nothing wrong and you are an absolute KEY asset to the SC2 and esport-community.
What happened is just too bad really. I cant say more since only the involved parties know. We have to look within ourselves and just do your best, nothing more can be asked.
On August 16 2013 20:52 boxerfred wrote:Guess I shouldn't judge before reading both sides
That's what I thought right from the start and tbh a lot of people here should do this too, instead of being so trigger happy as soon as an opportunity to throw shit at someone pops up.
Both sides have made mistakes, but that can happen. Dragging it into public to start a shitstorm and try to look good oneself is just childish.
do both parties really have to create this big internet thing that causes a lot of fighting/picking sides within the community? can't they just work this out via private messages?
some might know i am not the biggest taketv fan of all, but besides from overreacting slightly and afterwards apologizing (what is a very minor thing), he did nothing wrong and i totally understand to be angry if you leak private (business) chat. I dont like genna and tb are blaming him so bad here :/
Would take a thousands of words to explain the story but anyways, why do you quoto a private conversation again when you retire ? You want to "hurt" him ? make him feel bad ? Who are you to do that, seriously. As he said it's simply not allowed.
I can see why Take would not want the second log to go public but why the harsh reaction about the first one? It did show him and Acer acting in the best way possible, trying to help fix a problem they had not caused. Secrecy for secrecy's sake?
IMO why Take did not want the mail to be public: 1500$ per team were more or less communicated. Ax cannot make it at this rate of compensation, Liquid aswell, Take tries to make it happen by raising the amount of compensation (apparently was not possible/was aborted after mails went public). Isn't it obvious that other teams would also demand higher compensations?
On August 16 2013 21:16 partydude89 wrote: do both parties really have to create this big internet thing that causes a lot of fighting/picking sides within the community? can't they just work this out via private messages?
with posting privat chat from take Genna fcked over herself so every1 will think twice what he says to her and also fcked up her Team by reacting like a child very bad moves Genna very bad
Lol this is hilarious. Genna's first blog post goes way too indepth to explain everything, it could have been summarized in 1/3 of the text. She fucked up not checking the financial aspect. TakeTV fucked up not providing that information. In the end everyone fucked up and i honestly don't see what the point of her first blog post even was.
Then this gets blown way out of proportion like a bunch of six year olds. Genna quit's over some silly drama(maybe just looking for an exscuse to get out anyway) Take overreacts to some silly skype logs and then TB goes of the rails as usual and starts throwing insults around.
This is hurting e-sports etc but really, this is just a bunch of people being very unprofessional and messing up in a lot of aspects.
On August 16 2013 21:16 partydude89 wrote: do both parties really have to create this big internet thing that causes a lot of fighting/picking sides within the community? can't they just work this out via private messages?
That's what Take was trying to do and all he wished for.
On August 16 2013 21:20 unkkz wrote: Lol this is hilarious. Genna's first blog post goes way too indepth to explain everything, it could have been summarized in 1/3 of the text. She fucked up not checking the financial aspect. TakeTV fucked up not providing that information. In the end everyone fucked up and i honestly don't see what the point of her first blog post even was.
Then this gets blown way out of proportion like a bunch of six year olds. Genna quit's over some silly drama(maybe just looking for an exscuse to get out anyway) Take overreacts to some silly skype logs and then TB goes of the rails as usual and starts throwing insults around.
This is hurting e-sports etc but really, this is just a bunch of people being very unprofessional and messing up in a lot of aspects.
I agree with this POV, it's pretty mindboggling that this is essentially a simple misunderstanding and it has blown up to this.
Whatever happens I'd say both parties made mistakes. But I feel like Axiom is kinda making a drama, and TakeTV did nothing wrong tbh. I wouldn't like it either when my private convo's get put online etc.
Wow. Those poor Axiom players. First they have to deal with Jessica and her passion for public shitfests and after that, they get on a team that is run by an incompetent manager who wants to only be praised by the community and never sticks up to her mistakes. And on top of that they are financed by one of the most toxic figures in this community. It seems those guys cant catch a breake. I really hope the players of Axiom can get on a better team with a stable managment and enjoy their career as players.
Sad to see a Good Bye Thread with mix of manipulation going on. Btw I dont read why you are going? Do you have to go because Axiom Sponsors dont want you? Learn of your mistakes and keep going you can just improve on this.
Is it a Baby break? If yes gratz! Just plz dont let the kid get TB Hair
Every German in this thread backing up their e-sports hero. How i'm not surprised.
This is the best fucking response i've seen in this thread for a while. Exactly my thoughts and thanks for saying it.
On August 16 2013 21:20 unkkz wrote: Lol this is hilarious. Genna's first blog post goes way too indepth to explain everything, it could have been summarized in 1/3 of the text. She fucked up not checking the financial aspect. TakeTV fucked up not providing that information. In the end everyone fucked up and i honestly don't see what the point of her first blog post even was.
Then this gets blown way out of proportion like a bunch of six year olds. Genna quit's over some silly drama(maybe just looking for an exscuse to get out anyway) Take overreacts to some silly skype logs and then TB goes of the rails as usual and starts throwing insults around.
This is hurting e-sports etc but really, this is just a bunch of people being very unprofessional and messing up in a lot of aspects.
This is like the third time you pull this exact same publicity stunt and get mad at the shitstorm community while you are the shitty wizard summoning all the shitstorm tornados got fucking dammit
Why am i laughing so hard haha, even the bolded part
On August 16 2013 21:24 NerdFace wrote: Whatever happens I'd say both parties made mistakes. But I feel like Axiom is kinda making a drama, and TakeTV did nothing wrong tbh. I wouldn't like it either when my private convo's get put online etc.
So both sides made mistakes ... but one side did nothing wrong?
On August 16 2013 17:33 Gr33d wrote: So the management of a SC2 team is no hobby for a bored wife that plays with the money of her man, especially if you can't handle the stress. Surprise. Now prepare (if it has not already happened) for drama from TB for more reddit and YT views.
Every time when I think that I read the wrongest post possible, another one is right there which is even worse.
As Axiom team owner, Genna did more for Starcraft in a day that you will do in your life.
Yes, both sides did mistakes, but not everyone wanted this drama and it certainly wasn't necessary to publish private chats. I think Genna overreacted, but whatever she seems to be kind of emotional (similar to Jessica I guess).
On August 16 2013 17:37 Khai wrote: This is ridiculous, as a fan of e-Sports I am completely and utterly disappointed in which the manner TaKe has dealt with this. Completely lost my respect for TaKe and will be avoiding his events from hereon in. Some transparency is good in a startup industry and in an e-Sport, fans should know if there are issues like this, threatening to sue for someone revealing truths to fans is just low. Axiom qualified 2nd in the group stage, was not given funds to travel and you expect them to keep it a secret without explaining to fans? I hope TaKe will take a good hard look on his own conduct, defending sponsors is no reason to act like a douche.
Act like a douche? He even offered Genna to ask Acer if they could help in this situation. There is only one douche in this matter, and that's the person who writes "fuck you, take" in his twitter.
Firstly, if you organise an event as big as this and invite a team from another country how can you not take into account travel costs for them? That's bad management, from what I understood team MVP had to raise some funds to attend, they're first and have a good chance so they decided to take the risk. 4th place gives $2000 which might not even cover travel. If that was the case he shouldn't have allowed Korean teams to compete.
Secondly, ok he offered to pay for travel? In the end was it enough? No, Axiom had to pull out. MVP tried to raise funds and takes a risk. Refer to first point, lack of foresight, TaKe has to take responsibility.
Thirdly, he threatened to sue because someone revealed what he said? Why is it that it has to be a secret? Protecting sponsors is fine but rather than trying to fix stuff he goes aggressive, hardly kind.
You can't blame me for losing my respect for that guy as an organiser, I knew of a TaKe with plenty of credibility hosting events but this is one too many scandal and I refer to Axiom (a small privately owned team) having to pull out this way + threat of legal action is just douchey in my books.
Her leaving Axiom is a defeated for herself. Winner's don't give up, and try to do their best. In this case doing her atmost best is communicating with you about a good solution.
Like I said at her post "Winners gain from pain", and "Losers quit". She should have just continued, not left her team (which was the most terrible decision she could made) and the most important thing: show something to the community. I think the biggest mistake she made was just leaving her team, which is "very bad" for the community itself.
I hope she will apologize to her team and to the community, and will make a solution together with you which will benefit both you, axiom, taketv and the community.
Those are my words, based on the information sources that you both shared with the community, and based on trust from the words spoken. It is my opinion based on that, and this information might not be 100% true, if one of you told a different story from the trueth.
Ok so I stumbled on this. "GLHF" the title is. Seemed more like a Ragequit to me.
(Worst part is Take complaining about private conversation disclosures in a private conversation and Genna publishing this very conversation as a retirement gift)
Khai just to make one thing sure cause otherwise its getting into a wrong direction.
MVP knew for a very long time and even then signed up. They knew they have to pay the trips by themselfs mostly but even them i paid more hotelrooms cause they had to pay the trips and asked to work together on it and find solutions.
They had this plan i guess since a long plan to get money with the thing they did.
On August 16 2013 21:20 unkkz wrote: Lol this is hilarious. Genna's first blog post goes way too indepth to explain everything, it could have been summarized in 1/3 of the text. She fucked up not checking the financial aspect. TakeTV fucked up not providing that information. In the end everyone fucked up and i honestly don't see what the point of her first blog post even was.
Then this gets blown way out of proportion like a bunch of six year olds. Genna quit's over some silly drama(maybe just looking for an exscuse to get out anyway) Take overreacts to some silly skype logs and then TB goes of the rails as usual and starts throwing insults around.
This is hurting e-sports etc but really, this is just a bunch of people being very unprofessional and messing up in a lot of aspects.
Honestly... not every german. I am american livin in germany and working for a german software company as a manager. To be completely clear on this: I am in no way backing up take for what he said... It's just a miserable childish practise to release private chats.
This is what destroys this community. You can't even trust a business partner.
For me it means: My company can't invest in SC2 as a sponsor because you never know what is released to the public with guys like TB and Genna. And I don't care if she did much for esports... This is about trust. And if trust is lost... you loose everything. It's a shame really to see a soap opera like this happen. Fact is: It most of the time happens as soon as TB is involved. It seems he likes the drama. Also the way he is critizising blizzard as a company for the way they managed WCS. It doesn't matter if he is correct or not. It matters how he approaches the problems. And he and also Genna are continously doing it in an unprofessional way: meaning going public.
As usual there are three sides to this story, yours, mine and the truth.
As usual the truth lies somewhere between yours and mine. It looks like, to me, at least, mistakes have been made by all parties involved. And we will never know all the details, nor should we expect to.
It would be awesome if Genna/TB and Dennis could put these petty differences and emotional vitriol aside and get together and talked this through, like the adults and pillars of this scene they profess to be. Maybe as others have suggested with a moderator. (Looking at you for this, Nazgul)
I love you Genna, but you shouldn't have posted those emails and skype logs. Dennis, you produce great content, but threatening legal action like that is not going to get you anywhere.
At the end of the day I'll continue to support my favorite team, Axiom, and watch the great tournaments hosted by TakeTV.
Wtf, why does this have to be discussed in public, genna? I mean its impossible this is really the reason you quit your own team. If it is.. you must be really foolish.
I mean, this looks like someone who just didnt want to manage a team anymore, but didnt want to face it and instead making other people bad to not look bad herself. But for being so long in eSports this is REALLY immature und unprofessional. I am pretty sure Dennis made even other mistakes beside his small faux pas, but thats, as mentioned, pretty normal, even if he is a professional one, but he apologized for them. Of course it is normal, that most things that are discussed are done behind closed curtains. Posting this in public doesnt just destroy the image of a company, it mires the whole work the company(in this case TaKeTV) did in the past.
This shows that esports is still not that professional as it needs to be. Without professionality growth cant be considered. Without growth, esports will fall back to its status 10 years ago. Means to nothing.
Nevertheless i am certain this is something that doesnt happen everyday, so everyone calm down, its sad this had to happen, but its not the end of the world.
Dennis is no bad person, he puts A LOT effort in his work. Alone this fact deserved to be respected, because there are not that many people who put in this that much effort.
Keep on going TaKe, shit must taste good, to be able to reach the top of the line, because you will have to face it some more times in the future
/edit: nice i started a new page, now i have all the attention, muahaha :D/
Khai you are missing the point. Months ago it was already made public that 1500 $ will be paid towards the teamsas travel expenses and not more as it was the first season. Its not bad planning or foresight. Its simply a matter of budget and sponsoring.
While taketv fucked up not providing Genna with the email she/axiom fucked up assuming all travel expenses will be paid. Mistakes on both sides, no need for drama. The real drama started when her transparency leaked privat logs of conversations they had and take didnt handle that very well. Once again mistakes on both sides. Its a loss for us all and a shame. I wish people would move on
You may say I am biased towards Take as a German, but let me tell you, I don't always agree with what Dennis says or does.
But how can you blame Take on that topic? To break this book of blabla down to a single fact, the manager of a participating team of a cup just assumed the trip to offline finals would get payed and shitstormed the shit out of the host involving private chats?
That's unprofessional in any kind I can think of. As a manager, you never have to assume anything, you have to ensure important facts. Terrible managing, terrible acting as a personality afterwards.
Bad played Genna, your acting casts a cloud over Team Axiom. Well played Dennis this time (apart from the sueing), I'm sure ATC Finals will still be pretty damn good.
Wow what a mess . I think posting the last chatlog here is a really low blow. Take was probably really upset when he wrote it as he was afraid his relationship with sponsor Acer was in danger, and as we all know getting sponsors is really, really hard. Also he probably worked really hard on the tournament and was dissapointed in the way Axiom handled the situation. (just assuming you would get free flights is a bit naive to say the least...)
A second reason why you shouldn't post personal chat logs is that it is not a good way to communicate about complicated matters. Words can be misinterpreted and a sentence can turn out to be read differently than the author had in mind. Type a sentence, press enter, boom. Especially since Take is not a native english speaker and is not 100% fluid. (my opinion after seeing his interviews at dreamhack). Also we just can't know if it is just a exempt of the whole log or not.
I also understand the way Gemma Bain feels, as in this community you will always get shit on for whatever, so it takes a special mindset to be able to deal with that. If you let it affect you personally by focusing on the negative feedback instead of the positive feedback, I understand that you will feel very bad and I feel sorry for her. Gemma feeling bad is probably one of the main reasons TB is raging and cursing, but he should just stop doing that as it is helping nobody and a bit disrespectful towards Take imo.
We sent an email which said we have 20k pricemoney and an offline finale and they agreed to play it via mail. After they played the last playday they realize we dont pay the whole trip cause we give them a reminder that we offer 1500 and hotels and then this happens? This is very sad honestly.
//Dennis
This is where it all stemmed from, i keep saying it and everyone else is jumping up and down about bullshit that doesnt matter. Genna assumed this, never looked into it or had any information regarding it and everything went to shit because of it. She realised she fucked up and started trying to strawman / put blame where it wasnt (at people and other information) then all of a sudden has a breakdown and leaves the team when it doesnt work.
Its sad honestly, both that she fucked up and she has other personal / business issues not regarding the team, but its no excuse to 1) fuck up and especially 2) start throwing around private emails / walls of text that dont even matter and shitflinging at people.
This could have been solved with one line.
"I didnt realise my team would have to pay for travel and accommodation to an offline finals" Followed by "It is my fault, i assumed the costs would be paid with no information stating or remotely hinting at this and i neglected to read the email properly that informed us of an offline finals" Ending with! "Im sorry."
Instead of lying about not being told about an offline finals (in the same post she posted a private email saying there WAS an offline finals) and untold other crap.
Again. AssUMe
This, I wanted to type basically the same thing but since you did it for me. **bows** Take said he was sorry like 5-10 times in his post and in his direct messages but not a single time did the Axiom team every say they were sorry for assuming something. Also though I want to applaud Genna for recognizing that Take did everything he could to try and straighten out the situation. It was/is a very frustrating situation and it would be very easy to get mad at the people involved rather than the circumstances.
Sucky situation where neither party wins.
Take you are an upstanding gentleman and Genna thank you for being mature and not attacking Take.
On August 16 2013 21:33 Grettin wrote: Every German in this thread backing up their e-sports hero. How i'm not surprised.
This is the best fucking response i've seen in this thread for a while. Exactly my thoughts and thanks for saying it.
On August 16 2013 21:20 unkkz wrote: Lol this is hilarious. Genna's first blog post goes way too indepth to explain everything, it could have been summarized in 1/3 of the text. She fucked up not checking the financial aspect. TakeTV fucked up not providing that information. In the end everyone fucked up and i honestly don't see what the point of her first blog post even was.
Then this gets blown way out of proportion like a bunch of six year olds. Genna quit's over some silly drama(maybe just looking for an exscuse to get out anyway) Take overreacts to some silly skype logs and then TB goes of the rails as usual and starts throwing insults around.
This is hurting e-sports etc but really, this is just a bunch of people being very unprofessional and messing up in a lot of aspects.
Honestly... not every german. I am american livin in germany and working for a german software company as a manager. To be completely clear on this: I am in no way backing up take for what he said... It's just a miserable childish practise to release private chats.
It was a 'figure of speech' if you will. Obviously i'm not calling out every German. But people who are biased towards something, usually forget that there is the other side in the story as well.
Take, you should really start using more commas, paragraphs etc The rest are pretty obvious, many noob mistakes. Pros should double-check everything. But here, some things weren't even checked once ... Then TB had to support his wife/the person who he co-decided should be Axiom's team owner/manager. What I don't get is how TB & GB didn't expect mistakes from their part to happen, when none of them had previous experience in running an esports team. Genna should be giving HERSELF some time to adjust and learn. TB describes her involvement in esports being a very bad and stressing experience for her. We don't have enough info, maybe it was. Its her right to quit and it might be better for the team if someone more experienced took over. Take's part should have sent the info about the 1500$ and shouldn't have mentioned anything legal related. Both parties showed immaturity at some degree. Esports is mostly about young people, either they're watching or organizing/hosting. Mistakes will happen. People should learn and get better.
PS: I have a complaint to make about some kind of big European tournaments only being cast by taketv in German. Is this taketv's choice? Or no other European casting parties are interested?
After reading all of TB's comments here and the podcast on soundcloud concerning the retirement i want to voice my opinion too.
1. It was very clearly communicated from the beginning that theres going to be an offline final. It wasnt directly communicated how travel costs will be handled. - minor screw up for TakeTV
2. Axiom manager Genna assumes falsely that there was no offline final despite it being stated in the first email that the finals are being held at Takes apartement in Krefeld. When finding out there was an offline final, she assumes that all travel costs will be covered by the tournament absent any indication of that. Since those information are crucial for the participation of Axiom it would have been compulsory for Axiom to ask about it or inform themselves. (the needed information where out there for everyone to see) Covering full travel expenses by tournaments in esports is in no way silently implied. not for teamleagues, not for wcs, not for any tournament. (TB disagrees with this opinion) - big screw up for Axiom
3. Axiom decides not to invest private funds to be used for the travel costs to ATC, prioritizing to limit costs for this period and in hope to have operations break even instead of finding a similar solution to MVP to somehow save their ATC participation. MVP's model in my eye: Offering community content in exchange for teleological donations to fund their travels. MVP's model in TB's eye: putting out the begging bowl (perceived unethical for a team with allegedly good sponsors)
Hard decision. You got to respect that they dont want to put in more of their private funds. But MVP showed that there are other options. The sponsorship exposure at an event like ATC is unparalleled so my personal opinion would be like Take funding private money or go with the MVP model. - I would give a slight edge to Take
4. Axioms decision wasnt perceived well. Instead of just admitting that faults have been made on both sides and focussing on the good side that someone is replacing them, the explanation is just about blaming circumstances and TakeTV for not mentioning what they wont pay. Although assuming that travel costs will be fully paid is a fault of Axiom alone. It would have been better just to say: " I falsely assumed travel costs would be fully paid and i failed to come up with an adequate solution to save Axioms participation in time. I'm sorry, i've made a mistake and i feel horrible about it."
Everyone would support you and say, "dont take it too hard. mistakes happen. You've tried your best but it didnt work out." Thats what you want to hear. But you dont achieve that by blaming everything and everyone else when they are not to blame. Also it doesnt help to be aggressive towards people on forums and insult and talk down on people like TB does. Always playing the "I'm the mighty TotalBiscuit, who the fuck are you, midget? Do you even know who i am? I do so much, i work so hard, be grateful! Why are you not grateful, you ungrateful prick?"-card Some people might enjoy that if you do that to someone else who truely deserves it. But not to people that make good points on this forum.
5. In an effort to reduce the hate Axiom was getting, Genna posts her first blog post, revealing a lot of inside chats with take, he might get in trouble for, because he tries to do everything to save a participation of Axiom. The thing that Take has to put in some of his own money and that he doesnt treat all teams equally by providing more for some teams that cant afford it are things that might get him in trouble. Also it makes it seem like Acer wasnt providing enough money to run such a teamleague. Thats not what you would call positive PR for Acer. I would feel uneasy to publish private chats without the consent of the people involved. It should be common sense to ask everyone for their consent first. - mistake on Axioms side
6. Take is not pleased and overreacts a little bit by threatening legal actions. I can understand where hes coming from, you really should have asked first. But i doubt it will lead to anything. - small minus point for take because it could have been handled better
7. So now Genna decides to retire because this is one issue too much for her to handle. The podcast also mentions depressions and suicide thoughts and such. Im not a psychiatrists but from personal experience it helps for me if you just admit faults and move on instead of just searching for blame somewhere else all the time. Its kinda releasing stress to do that. So the situation is: Take is pissed about publishing private chats. What does Genna do? Publish more private chats. In attempt to display herself as the victim and martyr herself to prove that point. Thats how it comes across. and it stirs up so much drama.
In the end i think its good for her to retire, because it seems like the more she does to calm things down, the worse it gets. Especially because TB always stirs up more trouble in the comments and ruining her-well meant attempts to clear the air.
On August 16 2013 17:37 Khai wrote: This is ridiculous, as a fan of e-Sports I am completely and utterly disappointed in which the manner TaKe has dealt with this. Completely lost my respect for TaKe and will be avoiding his events from hereon in. Some transparency is good in a startup industry and in an e-Sport, fans should know if there are issues like this, threatening to sue for someone revealing truths to fans is just low. Axiom qualified 2nd in the group stage, was not given funds to travel and you expect them to keep it a secret without explaining to fans? I hope TaKe will take a good hard look on his own conduct, defending sponsors is no reason to act like a douche.
Act like a douche? He even offered Genna to ask Acer if they could help in this situation. There is only one douche in this matter, and that's the person who writes "fuck you, take" in his twitter.
Firstly, if you organise an event as big as this and invite a team from another country how can you not take into account travel costs for them? That's bad management, from what I understood team MVP had to raise some funds to attend, they're first and have a good chance so they decided to take the risk. 4th place gives $2000 which might not even cover travel. If that was the case he shouldn't have allowed Korean teams to compete.
Secondly, ok he offered to pay for travel? In the end was it enough? No, Axiom had to pull out. MVP tried to raise funds and takes a risk. Refer to first point, lack of foresight, TaKe has to take responsibility.
Thirdly, he threatened to sue because someone revealed what he said? Why is it that it has to be a secret? Protecting sponsors is fine but rather than trying to fix stuff he goes aggressive, hardly kind.
You can't blame me for losing my respect for that guy as an organiser, I knew of a TaKe with plenty of credibility hosting events but this is one too many scandal and I refer to Axiom (a small privately owned team) having to pull out this way + threat of legal action is just douchey in my books.
So it is the responsibility of a tournament organizer that the TEAMS can come to the offline finals? (yes it was clear that it was an offline final) Really, if I organize something at location A, I'm not responsible if people from Timbuktu want to come but don't have the means - that is not my fucking problem.
Sorry, but your post is absolute bollocks. And again, Take didn't threat with legal action, he phrased it differently. There is a distinct difference between "actually i hope that by law this is something you can get punnished (sic) for?", and 'I am going to sue you, my lawyer will be filing a suit in court within 24hrs'. His statement was that what she did was (under German law) illegal, and that she COULD get punished for it - not a direct threat of legal action.
Hey this is the first time i gonna put a statement her to the whole situation after the statements.
I don t get why this had to happen and Genna now gonna leave it but she might be even more emotional than me but then i dont actually understand why she reacted like this - everyone is different but here my story.
First of all i wanna appologize that i reacted emotional! This is not correct and nothing i can take back.
And now you get my 100% honest thought about the situation and this probably even pushed her to stop?
I really didnt wanna say to much about the whole situation cause i think it just hurts both sites and makes no sense at all i am always the guy who tries to find a solution together in every single way in privat at work family whatever.
So what do i do? I try to talk to people to solve problems if they happen which can always happen sometimes i fuck up sometimes someone else or whoever but in the end for me its just important to find a solution with everyone TOGETHER!
For myself i would never post privat chats which i had with someone- if its about privat stuff like friends/Girlfriend whatever even if i am angry or businessstuff like in this case cause this can hurt everyone not only one person and for myself you hurt my privacy which is very important to me.
A few things i wanna ADD. i kept talking to Genna about a statement about Axiom not attending she did saturday, sunday, monday, tuesday and i think she posted it wednesday? She never responded just saturday once she is in a broadcast or so and will come back to me later. i reminded her 5 times or more on different days and she even talked to other people that she got my messages but never wanted to answer me - and in the end she said cause of the timezones we missed each other!??! I dont know but this is pretty lame. I really hate it that i have to do a statement like this and its also kinda emotional cause all this means alot to me i have one aim doing a good job make alot of people happy and enjoy what i do but no its me getting shit because i tried to calm down for the whole situation and dont bring up any bad words about anyone cause everyone does mistakes from time to time and she publishes every single word we discussed in private about this thing - Is this what we call professional? At least i dont see that.
I will still not publish stuff she said cause even if i am angry i will just describe a little bit...
In the whole season she almost never replied to emails once she didnt answer 11 days or so? on 10 mails...as you probably realized we even had to do replaycasts cause axiom didnt play thier matches - Genna (when she answered) mentioned they have stuff to do but with the day we talked to Crank instead of her it worked perfectly fine and even the players thought they have to wait and dont have to play games even when we were pushing it alot and reminded her etc..
Its really frustrating to me tbh cause what i wanted from the start was just a statement from both sites that the situation was fucked up abit and both sites did some mistakes and no one would ever be angry so why Genna didn you try to get something solved together and now act like this? I even told you before saturday that if you do a statement please lets do it together and find the best possible way for everyone. THE MOST IMPORTANT THING!!! But lets come back to why this all started - Axiom expected us to pay 100% of the trip which we never said/Promised or even mentioned we with a single word. We cant promise stuff like this if we dont have the ressources for it. So we didnt.
We sent an email which said we have 20k pricemoney and an offline finale and they agreed to play it via mail. After they played the last playday they realize we dont pay the whole trip cause we give them a reminder that we offer 1500 and hotels and then this happens? This is very sad honestly.
How would you ever expect we can pay 4 teams fulltrips from korea and wouldnt even mention it to the teams? I think the only organizazion who can provide it is Blizzard at the moment?
One thing which was just meant as a help for the teams was the support we give and i know that the costs are very high for all teams thats why i wanted to have this support and kept talking to sponsors about it and for Season 2 we even want to raise it that was sure from the beginning but we never knew if the league will work out it was a nice try. But well our mistake was to not communicate it. We wanted and thought the mail was sent to everyone at Cebit in March but it wasn t. I am sorry about that to all teams!
But still i think if i dont communicate any help you won t expect any support at all cause you dont go to a Dreamhack or HomeStorycup and expect we pay all trips and not even tell you.
I really love what i do and i do it every day 7 days 80hours+ a week almost all over the year and only take very small breaks from esport to get some privat time and vacation etc. Cause i love esport and i appreciate it soo much that i can have a job in this business but honestly this really hurts me my motivation my heart and i am honestly sad really sad that this has to happen.
Right now i have almost all emotions in me but also i am angry about what Genna does and how she handled it.now i also wrote what i think she did wrong but if i wouldnt do it i could not live with what she did and on the same moment feel okay.
@Genna - If you finally wanna talk for the first time about the statement and how everything went seriously i am still up for it even if so much shit flew around.
Since she posted so much she also posted that i pay costs for Liquid from my own privat wallet cause the situation was not perfect and i wanted to find a solution and LIQUID kept talking to me and really wanted to find a solution. One more thing i even offered Genna that i would think about also helping them also from my own money to bring them here - She never reacted on that and tried to find a conversation about this and in the very end after she almost never replied i said okay well we cant pay it cause i already felt bad that i offer solutions and try to find options but the other site seems like they not even care.
I want to appologize to the whole community for what i did wrong and the whole situation i honestly think no one is perfect expecially me and everyone does some mistakes but this makes me look so bad cause someone probably even wanted this happen...and didnt even try to fix stuff together.
This was MY honest statement which could even have more stuff in it - Its what I think and no one else.
I ve seen comments about NOW i won t watch TaKeTV anymore which really hurted me alot tbh but i think i explained my situation and what happend if people still say okay TaKe is an Idiot i respect it and i lost viewers cause this is what i think and did cause its me.
Thank you for reading my horrible text!
//Dennis
Pretty much how i thought the whole thing went without even knowing this side of the story, emotional people can't run a business in any sector, let alone E-Sports. There is a way to do things at a business level and there is a way not to do things. Genna's way is the way you DONT do things and Takes way is the way you do things. Hell i don't even care who is right on the whole situation, i haven't even followed the ATC as i found it rather silly format, but the way Axiom have portrayed themselves is really poorly. If you don't want to participate in the tournament just make a sure sweet announcement that your not participating in it due to some "communication" issues, not create pointless, needless drama. Then think you have a god given right to lay the whole conversations with the people involved out as if it is some which hunt. THAT IS NOT HOW TO GO ABOUT IT, whether your right or wrong. This is getting worst and worst, and people seriously need to grow up and think how business' are run. Do you see any sports teams releasing skype conversations between owners and sponsors or league organizations and teams?! No, they do it more professionally!
Now we thought SlayerS Jessica was a big problem, when she finally stepped down a sigh of relief happened as she was hurting the image of E-Sports, we have had no other (major) problems/issues since and now we have this again making the whole image of the scene look childish and unprofessional. And in a sense cost someone there job even though im sure all the players loved Genna being in charge of Axiom.
We need to stop causing these pointless dramas because people act like children and don't understand how business works!
STOP WITCH HUNTING AND START SUPPORTING E-SPORTS!
On August 16 2013 21:55 SpikeStarcraft wrote: After reading all of TB's comments here and the podcast on soundcloud concerning the retirement i want to voice my opinion too.
1. It was very clearly communicated from the beginning that theres going to be an offline final. It wasnt directly communicated how travel costs will be handled. - minor screw up for TakeTV
2. Axiom manager Genna assumes falsely that there was no offline final despite it being stated in the first email that the finals are being held at Takes apartement in Krefeld. When finding out there was an offline final, she assumes that all travel costs will be covered by the tournament absent any indication of that. Since those information are crucial for the participation of Axiom it would have been compulsory for Axiom to ask about it or inform themselves. (the needed information where out there for everyone to see) Covering full travel expenses by tournaments in esports is in no way silently implied. not for teamleagues, not for wcs, not for any tournament. (TB disagrees with this opinion) - big screw up for Axiom
3. Axiom decides not to invest private funds to be used for the travel costs to ATC, prioritizing to limit costs for this period and in hope to have operations break even instead of finding a similar solution to MVP to somehow save their ATC participation. MVP's model in my eye: Offering community content in exchange for teleological donations to fund their travels. MVP's model in TB's eye: putting out the begging bowl (perceived unethical for a team with allegedly good sponsors)
Hard decision. You got to respect that they dont want to put in more of their private funds. But MVP showed that there are other options. The sponsorship exposure at an event like ATC is unparalleled so my personal opinion would be like Take funding private money or go with the MVP model. - I would give a slight edge to Take
4. Axioms decision wasnt perceived well. Instead of just admitting that faults have been made on both sides and focussing on the good side that someone is replacing them, the explanation is just about blaming circumstances and TakeTV for not mentioning what they wont pay. Although assuming that travel costs will be fully paid is a fault of Axiom alone. It would have been better just to say: " I falsely assumed travel costs would be fully paid and i failed to come up with an adequate solution to save Axioms participation in time. I'm sorry, i've made a mistake and i feel horrible about it."
Everyone would support you and say, "dont take it too hard. mistakes happen. You've tried your best but it didnt work out." Thats what you want to hear. But you dont achieve that by blaming everything and everyone else when they are not to blame. Also it doesnt help to be aggressive towards people on forums and insult and talk down on people like TB does. Always playing the "I'm the mighty TotalBiscuit, who the fuck are you, midget? Do you even know who i am? I do so much, i work so hard, be grateful! Why are you not grateful, you ungrateful prick?"-card Some people might enjoy that if you do that to someone else who truely deserves it. But not to people that make good points on this forum.
5. In an effort to reduce the hate Axiom was getting, Genna posts her first blog post, revealing a lot of inside chats with take, he might get in trouble for, because he tries to do everything to save a participation of Axiom. The thing that Take has to put in some of his own money and that he doesnt treat all teams equally by providing more for some teams that cant afford it are things that might get him in trouble. Also it makes it seem like Acer wasnt providing enough money to run such a teamleague. Thats not what you would call positive PR for Acer. I would feel uneasy to publish private chats without the consent of the people involved. It should be common sense to ask everyone for their consent first. - mistake on Axioms side
6. Take is not pleased and overreacts a little bit by threatening legal actions. I can understand where hes coming from, you really should have asked first. But i doubt it will lead to anything. - small minus point for take because it could have been handled better
7. So now Genna decides to retire because this is one issue too much for her to handle. The podcast also mentions depressions and suicide thoughts and such. Im not a psychiatrists but from personal experience it helps for me if you just admit faults and move on instead of just searching for blame somewhere else all the time. Its kinda releasing stress to do that. So the situation is: Take is pissed about publishing private chats. What does Genna do? Publish more private chats. In attempt to display herself as the victim and martyr herself to prove that point. Thats how it comes across. and it stirs up so much drama.
In the end i think its good for her to retire, because it seems like the more she does to calm things down, the worse it gets. Especially because TB always stirs up more trouble in the comments and ruining her-well meant attempts to clear the air.
Just my thoughts to this whole odyssey
This also is pretty much how everything is portrayed, so Genna TB and Take read this, and look in the mirror!
On August 16 2013 12:58 Joedaddy wrote: Pretty shitty move when you make what one presumed to be a private conversation public. Even if you didn't think it was a big deal, Dennis obviously did.
Fuck Dennis. If he wasn't so concerned about saving face rather than being honest with everybody about his mismanaged tournament then some of this might not have happened. When you say "I hope there are legal consequences for what you've done" all bets are off, I lose any respect I've had for you. I hope Take enjoyed the free casting and the numbers, I'll never deal with him and his organisation ever again.
Why no temp ban or warning for the first rly proffesional word ?!? TB and Genna sounds like 8year old kids. Grow up, all of u, such a shame for the E-Sport scene.
On August 16 2013 21:33 Grettin wrote: Every German in this thread backing up their e-sports hero. How i'm not surprised.
This is the best fucking response i've seen in this thread for a while. Exactly my thoughts and thanks for saying it.
On August 16 2013 21:20 unkkz wrote: Lol this is hilarious. Genna's first blog post goes way too indepth to explain everything, it could have been summarized in 1/3 of the text. She fucked up not checking the financial aspect. TakeTV fucked up not providing that information. In the end everyone fucked up and i honestly don't see what the point of her first blog post even was.
Then this gets blown way out of proportion like a bunch of six year olds. Genna quit's over some silly drama(maybe just looking for an exscuse to get out anyway) Take overreacts to some silly skype logs and then TB goes of the rails as usual and starts throwing insults around.
This is hurting e-sports etc but really, this is just a bunch of people being very unprofessional and messing up in a lot of aspects.
Honestly... not every german. I am american livin in germany and working for a german software company as a manager. To be completely clear on this: I am in no way backing up take for what he said... It's just a miserable childish practise to release private chats.
It was a 'figure of speech' if you will. Obviously i'm not calling out every German. But people who are biased towards something, usually forget that there is the other side in the story as well.
i don't agree with you at all. i like take for what he's doing but i also disagree with him when he does things wrong.
the thing is: private in germany means PRIVATE. you NEVER release private conversations without consent. this is a german thing and to remind you there are also many germans that don't like take.
TL;DR: german mentality and not german take love are the reason germans support take.
Did anyone even bother to listen to TB's soundcloud? https://soundcloud.com/totalbiscuit/gennas-retirement Genna's evidently had a lot of shit around her head for not just the past couple of weeks, and as TB starts off it's the ''straw that broke the camel's back''. Therefore, I don't think it was just the problems with the ATC that caused her to call it completely.
It's very unfortunate that things happen like this. I normally am very for releasing everything as publicly and honestly as possible, but I understand why TaKe wouldn't want this out there. You've got to respect his privacy. Dennis, thanks for the honest statement and I still think that saying you hope legal action can be taken against her is a bit too much, that was really not necessary. It seems like a weird thing to say when you're mad but that's of course personal. Honestly I think Genna just needed that last conversation in her final statement to call it quits, and yes that put you in a bad spot, but most people will be able to figure out that it was just frustration from your side. I hope Genna+TB/TaKe can try to fix things up if possible, maybe even without Genna because it might cause even more stress.
On that note I'm also very sorry to hear about Genna's conditions, and hope she takes some time off, relaxes a bit, and recovers. You were or actually still ARE a great personality and team owner, sad that it had to get this far.
On August 16 2013 12:58 Joedaddy wrote: Pretty shitty move when you make what one presumed to be a private conversation public. Even if you didn't think it was a big deal, Dennis obviously did.
Fuck Dennis. If he wasn't so concerned about saving face rather than being honest with everybody about his mismanaged tournament then some of this might not have happened. When you say "I hope there are legal consequences for what you've done" all bets are off, I lose any respect I've had for you. I hope Take enjoyed the free casting and the numbers, I'll never deal with him and his organisation ever again.
Why no temp ban or warning for the first rly proffesional word ?!? TB and Genna sounds like 8year old kids. Grow up, all of u, such a shame for the E-Sport scene.
Why no temp ban for all the morons in these threads that bash either side without bothering to listen to both stories?
On August 16 2013 12:58 Joedaddy wrote: Pretty shitty move when you make what one presumed to be a private conversation public. Even if you didn't think it was a big deal, Dennis obviously did.
Fuck Dennis. If he wasn't so concerned about saving face rather than being honest with everybody about his mismanaged tournament then some of this might not have happened. When you say "I hope there are legal consequences for what you've done" all bets are off, I lose any respect I've had for you. I hope Take enjoyed the free casting and the numbers, I'll never deal with him and his organisation ever again.
Why no temp ban or warning for the first rly proffesional word ?!? TB and Genna sounds like 8year old kids. Grow up, all of u, such a shame for the E-Sport scene.
Why no temp ban for all the morons in these threads that bash either side without bothering to listen to both stories?
I did, trust me but i dont get why someone can use bad words and someone not? Can u tell me?
ok, so both sides fuck up, make mad posts to try to save face, the whole stuff gets blown out of proportion and in the end you have the hordes of internet trolls climbing the bandwagon and shit just got real.
e-sports drama - the reason to surf TL/reddit since 20xx
On August 16 2013 21:48 kingy19s wrote: At the end of the day I'll continue to support Axiom, and watch the great tournaments hosted by TakeTV.
On August 16 2013 21:42 Khai wrote: Firstly, if you organise an event as big as this and invite a team from another country how can you not take into account travel costs for them?
Not every, actually barely any tournament pays for travelling costs. It's just too much. The standard practice is that the team sponsors pay for travelling.
On August 16 2013 21:42 Khai wrote: That's bad management, from what I understood team MVP had to raise some funds to attend, they're first and have a good chance so they decided to take the risk. 4th place gives $2000 which might not even cover travel. If that was the case he shouldn't have allowed Korean teams to compete.
MVP knew that there were no funds provided for travelling, but they still participated and tried to find a solution together with TaKe. Genna just didn't return mails. She doesn't even deny that. And not allowing Korean teams to compete? Why? Every team can decide for themselves if they have the resources to travel to Germany for offline finals.
On August 16 2013 21:42 Khai wrote: Secondly, ok he offered to pay for travel? In the end was it enough? No, Axiom had to pull out. MVP tried to raise funds and takes a risk. Refer to first point, lack of foresight, TaKe has to take responsibility.
He offered helping them as soon as he heard they couldn't pay the travelling cost. But it was way too late, because Genna didn't return her mails. What lack of foresight? How do you manage such a situation if your contact doesn't respond?
On August 16 2013 21:42 Khai wrote: Thirdly, he threatened to sue because someone revealed what he said? Why is it that it has to be a secret? Protecting sponsors is fine but rather than trying to fix stuff he goes aggressive, hardly kind
It was obviously something he said in the heat of the moment, because his privacy was violated. He tried to apologize for it in the post above. And even then, he has all reason to be mad when private business conversations get released to the public.
On August 16 2013 21:42 Khai wrote: You can't blame me for losing my respect for that guy as an organiser, I knew of a TaKe with plenty of credibility hosting events but this is one too many scandal and I refer to Axiom (a small privately owned team) having to pull out this way + threat of legal action is just douchey in my books
I can blame you for being absolutely unreasonable. Axiom doesn't HAVE to pull out because of this. Genna just doesn't want to manage the team anymore because she made mistakes and can't handle accepting that. Instead she makes other people responsible who did close to nothing wrong.
The only thing TaKe did wrong, was forgetting to send an e-mail (the one he THOUGHT was sent at the time of CeBIT where he was very busy). Apparently every team was able to still get a grip on the situation without that information, except Axiom.
Kinda looks like there want someone to see Take suffer and let him look bad... Or i am just totally blind... but i think there was more than enough response from Take's side... Dont he tried hard to find a solution, tbh i also understand Genna but it just overall felt like there was some miss communicating between TakeTV and Axiom and the Blog rly. just looks like a "through some dirt around-blog" I mean
"B ) TakeTV for not communicating clearly with teams."
or
"Acer for not providing enough sponsorship to support travel for the offline portion of ATC."
I Did the Same in my Childhood everytime i wanted the Support of my Friends and let someone look bad xD "sponsorship to support travel" But that just killed my mind... I am a german GM not the best but good enough to travel to some Offline Events (gc next week ) but to think that the Sponsors of a Tournament rly should Pay all the Teams for even Playing the Cup... All HSC Qauli, only Place 1 good Paid no Problems at all so wtf is the problem...
If someone never said he will pay the full TravelCosts... u just ask. If i invite my Mates over for a Houseparty they dont think i will pay a taxi for them or drive to them to get them ... They just Ask "how we can come to you/who drives to Denis"... And tbh its kinda the same... its only about Ask/Writte an Email about "TakeTV/Acer pay the travel costs?" and dont believe they will do because they asked us to play the Cup.
Maybe i am just dumb or dont read something but its a KINDERGARTTTTEN!
On August 16 2013 12:58 Joedaddy wrote: Pretty shitty move when you make what one presumed to be a private conversation public. Even if you didn't think it was a big deal, Dennis obviously did.
Fuck Dennis. If he wasn't so concerned about saving face rather than being honest with everybody about his mismanaged tournament then some of this might not have happened. When you say "I hope there are legal consequences for what you've done" all bets are off, I lose any respect I've had for you. I hope Take enjoyed the free casting and the numbers, I'll never deal with him and his organisation ever again.
Why no temp ban or warning for the first rly proffesional word ?!? TB and Genna sounds like 8year old kids. Grow up, all of u, such a shame for the E-Sport scene.
Why no temp ban for all the morons in these threads that bash either side without bothering to listen to both stories?
I did, trust me but i dont get why someone can use bad words and someone not? Can u tell me?
Pretty sure it says in the TL Ten Commandments thread that important community figures/contributors are given a lot more leeway than the average poster. Deal with it.
This is such a massive non-issue. A communication breakdown spirals out of control and makes us all look bad as a result. I know we're a young industry with many first time DIY entrepreneurs but we need a heavy dose of perspective and professionalism after this incident. Sorry to all the parties involved.
On August 16 2013 12:58 Joedaddy wrote: Pretty shitty move when you make what one presumed to be a private conversation public. Even if you didn't think it was a big deal, Dennis obviously did.
Fuck Dennis. If he wasn't so concerned about saving face rather than being honest with everybody about his mismanaged tournament then some of this might not have happened. When you say "I hope there are legal consequences for what you've done" all bets are off, I lose any respect I've had for you. I hope Take enjoyed the free casting and the numbers, I'll never deal with him and his organisation ever again.
Why no temp ban or warning for the first rly proffesional word ?!? TB and Genna sounds like 8year old kids. Grow up, all of u, such a shame for the E-Sport scene.
Why no temp ban for all the morons in these threads that bash either side without bothering to listen to both stories?
Well i think he is meaning, you cant say "Fuck" against someone in the manner TB, i don't think he cares about the half decent replies in the thread, but when you just blatantly BM someone on a forum your just looking silly and make the forum look bad.
I think, Dennis´ statement clears the air in this arguement. Given, he did overreact at some point, but that was in response to Genna making their private conversation puplic (thats an absolute "no-go" in any case).
From my point of view - i only managed some amateur-teams in WC3 - it is rather unprofessinal as a Pro-Team-Manager to not take the initiative and ask about any travel expenses. Maybe Take had the responsibility to inform evry team in detail regarding the tournament - but its also evry Team-Managers responsibility to at least double-check.
If you believe Take, that he tried to solve the argument with Genna by contacting her several times - without reaction on her side - and that Take pays for Liquids trip with his private money, it is - at least to me - quite clear, who deserves more credibility. And: Private conversations are private.
Besides, ive known Dennis from his WC3-times as "Rine". I sometimes dislike his way of doing things (e.g. quality and choice of casters for his Dota-2 project), but i would never deny him his passion and his positive way to bring esports forward - as he said even with his private money. It is somewhat sad to read about the disrespect a lot of you are showing to a man who has sacrificed a lot by making casting/streaming his main profession.
On August 16 2013 12:58 Joedaddy wrote: Pretty shitty move when you make what one presumed to be a private conversation public. Even if you didn't think it was a big deal, Dennis obviously did.
Fuck Dennis. If he wasn't so concerned about saving face rather than being honest with everybody about his mismanaged tournament then some of this might not have happened. When you say "I hope there are legal consequences for what you've done" all bets are off, I lose any respect I've had for you. I hope Take enjoyed the free casting and the numbers, I'll never deal with him and his organisation ever again.
Why no temp ban or warning for the first rly proffesional word ?!? TB and Genna sounds like 8year old kids. Grow up, all of u, such a shame for the E-Sport scene.
Why no temp ban for all the morons in these threads that bash either side without bothering to listen to both stories?
I did, trust me but i dont get why someone can use bad words and someone not? Can u tell me?
Pretty sure it says in the TL Ten Commandments thread that important community figures/contributors are given a lot more leeway than the average poster. Deal with it.
Thx alot, I am only a small light here on TL but u make things more shiny. Sound like a two-tier society. I said it before, grow up and do the best for E-sport, all of u.
Okay, please don't take this the wrong way, but it's probably for the best that Genna is now not running an esports team. Of course she's passionate about it and wants to do the best job she can, but I just don't see her as capable. It still boggles my mind that those private conversations were posted online, and even still there. In my opinion, there are people who are way too invested in the community for their own good. Sorry for including you, but incontrol is another example. I could be wrong, but I strongly get the impression that these people really take to heart what's said about them and how the community will react to them. I feel like a lot of personalities in the community have a long way to go to get to at least the semi-professional level necessary. This 'drama' is so ridiculous that for once I'm even surprised it happened.
Seriously, I don't get all the fuzz about releasing "private conversations" in this case. First of all, Genna depicted Take in a rather positive light. The messages she posted clearly showed Take trying to find a solution and help Axiom out (as he mentioned e.g. paying part of the cost out of his own pocket as part of an arrangement). The remaining e-mail-logs just lend structure to her line of argument. They serve both as a piece of evidence and a clear depicition of what happened in order to avoid misunderstanding and to adhere to the facts. As far as I am concerned, neither private matters nor sensitive business information were revealed. It is only logical to fortify one's argument with accompanying evidence as long as no sensitive information is revealed to the public.
As much as Take's stance in keeping all of this matter private on his part is honorable, his statement is just that: it has nothing backing it up. I can only trust in his words. As for the matter regarding the travel expenses: As Genna's logs show, Axiom wasn't informed that they had to pay for the flights themselves. This was confirmed by staff of TakeTv. Mistakes happen, but it is not okay to seek responsibility in Axiom by claiming that TakeTv simply never said that travel-costs would be paid for by the organizers. It was their responsibility to inform the participating teams beforehand - in my opinion, participating in an extended teamleague including offline-finals is not the same as sending players to a tournament like Dreamhack or HSC. Therefore, you can't expect the invited teams to assume that they're having to cover the travel-expenses themselves.
I am not taking any sides here, I am just trying to stick to the facts that I know of. But then again, this is still just my opinion.
We sent an email which said we have 20k pricemoney and an offline finale and they agreed to play it via mail. After they played the last playday they realize we dont pay the whole trip cause we give them a reminder that we offer 1500 and hotels and then this happens? This is very sad honestly.
//Dennis
This is where it all stemmed from, i keep saying it and everyone else is jumping up and down about bullshit that doesnt matter. Genna assumed this, never looked into it or had any information regarding it and everything went to shit because of it. She realised she fucked up and started trying to strawman / put blame where it wasnt (at people and other information) then all of a sudden has a breakdown and leaves the team when it doesnt work.
Its sad honestly, both that she fucked up and she has other personal / business issues not regarding the team, but its no excuse to 1) fuck up and especially 2) start throwing around private emails / walls of text that dont even matter and shitflinging at people.
This could have been solved with one line.
"I didnt realise my team would have to pay for travel and accommodation to an offline finals" Followed by "It is my fault, i assumed the costs would be paid with no information stating or remotely hinting at this and i neglected to read the email properly that informed us of an offline finals" Ending with! "Im sorry."
Instead of lying about not being told about an offline finals (in the same post she posted a private email saying there WAS an offline finals) and untold other crap.
Thank you alot for this whole tread, many people may think this very conflict is unnecessary and even hurts the scene and i do to agree, but i think it also bears some educational,teaching, far deeper value within it self. This whole story showed, at least my humble self, what a "shitstorm" is, how it can start and some more.
I think communication in our day and age has developed, new mechanics like this so called "shitstorm", have emerged but we have yet to grow accustomed to them, no one actually wanted this "shitstorm" to happen, no one profits from it it just hurts everyone, the readers the fans and foremost the people involved.
So i dare to say, this tread should be read and people should try learn from it that the communication in the interent has its own dynamics, its own flow.
On August 16 2013 22:40 aliquis wrote: Thank you alot for this whole tread, many people may think this very conflict is unnecessary and even hurts the scene and i do to agree, but i think it also bears some educational,teaching, far deeper value within it self. This whole story showed, at least my humble self, what a "shitstorm" is, how it can start and some more.
I think communication in our day and age has developed, new mechanics like this so called "shitstorm", have emerged but we have yet to grow accustomed to them, no one actually wanted this "shitstorm" to happen, no one profits from it it just hurts everyone, the readers the fans and foremost the people involved.
So i dare to say, this tread should be read and people should try learn from it that the communication in the interent has its own dynamics, its own flow.
Well, unless you're entirely new to the internet, I disagree with your post. This garbage is getting really old. It should have been learned from even the beta SC2 days not to take issues publicly to the community.
I wrote about a good page's worth of something intelligent here, but then I just decided to delete it. Talking about sc2 just ends up in a convoluted mess of problems anyways.
Instead, I'll just chime in and say, TB, just leave. Go TMZ and "let your passion for e-sports out" reviewing World of Tanks 2 or something else. Talking heads pushing garbage like this and publicly arguing like the teenagers they monetize just belittles and ruins the scene to no end.
When you and other people in this community act like this, all it does is take substance away from the game, and that's salt in the wound when you consider how much substance blizzard had the game come boxed with.
When anyone gives people a reason to focus on this stupid shit, it takes away from the hard work of the players. Like any game or sport, the players make the game worth watching. Baseball is just some dipshit hitting a ball and some other noobs trying to catch it, if no one puts and incredible competitve energy into it. SC2 is no different. The players that work so hard to show us again and again where the pinnacle of play is, and that is what gives the game any value. They make the scene worth being interested in. When people TMZ/Dramatize/ect and act childish for whatever purpose, you belittle that effort, and take away from it. The attraction to the scene then instead comes from fluff and drama instead of big plays and big cheers. Not so sure? Maybe you should compare /r/dota2 to /r/starcraft on almost any given day. I will certainly say, It sure is refreshing to watch GIF's of amazing plays at Ti3 instead of browsing /r/starcraft to see what some talking head weighs in on about some bullshit that has no importance to begin with.
So if you (or anyone else who bothered to read this) don't want to set a good example, then just leave. Any attention you intentionally or inadvertently draw to this shit, while maybe good for you or your image or your wallet, just belittles the players, kills their game, and eventually saddens their fans.
On August 16 2013 22:46 ppp wrote: So, Axiom did assume Take's organization should pay for the travel expenses.. and they were wrong. What a big drama!
...and it looked like she was playing innocent and ignorant to try and get more compensation from TakeTV. I thought her blog made her look completely unprofessional, like a disgruntled customer haggling with customer service for some bullshit.
On August 16 2013 22:34 Sharean wrote: It was their responsibility to inform the participating teams beforehand - in my opinion, participating in an extended teamleague including offline-finals is not the same as sending players to a tournament like Dreamhack or HSC. Therefore, you can't expect the invited teams to assume that they're having to cover the travel-expenses themselves.
I am not taking any sides here, I am just trying to stick to the facts that I know of. But then again, this is still just my opinion.
You can't seriously expect someone to provide up to 10k on flight costs for you without checking it with them.
On August 16 2013 22:48 Vansetsu wrote: I wrote about a good page's worth of something intelligent here, but then I just decided to delete it. Talking about sc2 just ends up in a convoluted mess of problems anyways.
Instead, I'll just chime in and say, TB, just leave. Go TMZ and "let your passion for e-sports out" reviewing World of Tanks 2 or something else. Talking heads pushing garbage like this and publicly arguing like the teenagers they monetize just belittles and ruins the scene to no end.
Haha. Sadly, I'm going to have to agree, even when this thread isn't so much about him. At least, take a vacation/break for a while and learn how to be a better community personality.
On August 16 2013 22:34 Sharean wrote: As far as I am concerned, neither private matters nor sensitive business information were revealed.
Well, there is at least the fact that some teams get more money to cover their expenses than others do.
Or that fact that Take offered to pay more money, which may cause problems in future if other teams expect him to help them out when they don't have the money required.
There are repercussions to this type of thing that people on one side might not consider.
On August 16 2013 22:34 Sharean wrote: As far as I am concerned, neither private matters nor sensitive business information were revealed.
Well, there is at least the fact that some teams get more money to cover their expenses than others do.
Or that fact that Take offered to pay more money, which may cause problems in future if other teams expect him to help them out when they don't have the money required.
There are repercussions to this type of thing that people on one side might not consider.
Yes, I don't see how something like this is blatantly obvious. ESPECIALLY for a team owner. It isn't 'uncovering the veil', it's just bad business.
Meh i still think TaKe should have lay low and not said anything, Genna stepped down as a manager and it says enough, this just stirs more shit around this drama.
I hope it won't affect ATC in the long run, keep it up Denis !
Poor PR handling aside, I hope the community tends to side with TB when these conflicts come up. He's had a track record of trying to do the right thing.
On August 16 2013 12:49 philliechease wrote: I don't understand what the problem is. :/ So because she posted a part of a private skype chat (which is done all the time btw) he wants legal action against her?
You don't release a private chat between business partners in an official capacity. TaKe might very well speak differently if he thought it would be published, but he assumed like any other reasonable person that Axiom wouldn't use the chats publicly.
On August 16 2013 23:05 c0ldfusion wrote: lol @ TB being TB
Poor PR handling aside, I hope the community tends to side with TB when these conflicts come up. He's had a track record of trying to do the right thing.
Why do you hope that? Why should they tend to side with him from the get go? The community will side with whomever they deem more reasonable. Once TB stops summoning shitstorms, insulting people and acts professionally the community (or at least I) will glady side with him if he hasn't done anything wrong. Best case scenario we won't have to side with anybody of course, because matters like these are best kept privat.
People talk all the time about the EG curse and Artosis curse etc. But what about the Slayer's curse? These poor players are plagued by the deadliest curse in all of esports! It seems if you gather more then 2 of them on the same team disaster is sure to strike followed by a shitstorm hurricane of drama.
My thoughts on what happened... Both sides fucked up, Genna and TB dealing with personal problems let things get too personal/emotional in their statement. I don't agree with what TB is saying but I get it, the man is defending his wife. Like I said I don't agree with him but I fully respect that he is willing to stand up for Genna like this.
TLDR: Both sides fucked up, Axiom probably a little bit more but meh. Either way I still love both parties and will support both in the future.
Also on a side note, it's been a while since some stupid shit storm drama popped up(Unless I missed something?) This has to be a record for E-sports on going like 3 weeks with no drama -.-
It's really unfortunate how all this has played out and how so many people need to 'pick a side' and attack the other as if we all know who was right and who was wrong (or as if it was so simple as to have one side be right and one be wrong). This whole situation sucks and no one benefits from it.
It's sad that you are retiring, but more sad that so many people want to attack you on your way out. Thanks for all you've done in creating and running Axiom and wish you all the best in the future. I hope people will still support and cheer for Axiom and their players, and I hope people will still support Take. Most of all I hope people stop trying to find out who the 'guilty party' is in every bit of drama and destroy their career. Startcraft 2 can't afford that kind of pettiness if it wants to thrive.
On August 16 2013 13:10 Bagi wrote: Feels like overreaction. The childish "fuck Take"-stuff isn't helping anyone either.
Yeah man we should totally just hug it out after he threatened my wife and the team with legal action.
Is this the first time you got threatened with legal action? My mom deals with that daily at her work with clients. Grow up. I got threatened with legal action and racism a couple days ago. You know what I did? I played it cool, stayed calm, and finished my transaction with the buyer.
News just in, eSports is not the same as working at a supermarket.
you're so fucking condescending, losing all respect for you along with so many others
If thers one great person in eSports its most def Dennis Gehlen, the work and effort he has put into making eSports become what it is today, is simply put extraordinary.
But ye, posting conversations without the approvel of the ones u've spoken with is both immature and a "dick-move" in my book.
GL HF with ur life, hopefully you won't break down next time u meet bump on the road.
Listened to it. Still don't like TBs attitude, he's again burning bridges, saying that what Take did was horrible, and that he had 'to defend' whoever is close. Yet NO THREATS WERE MADE. Take expressed hope that under the law, what Genna did was illegal. Seriously, for a native English speaker with more than 2 braincells this must be completely clear. This public 'attack dog' mentality is the last thing that the scene can do right now - please just be caster, or (as suggested above) joint TMZ. I really like their passion, but I hate their 'elephant in the porcelain store' approach.
It seems that there could have been a little more consideration on both sides... and neither party's offenses really warrant holding a grudge.
From what I've read and understand, - TaKe was trying to help by attempting to get more money from Acer to fund travel - Genna was trying to explain to everyone why Axiom was not able to attend ATC - TaKe took offense to public posting, Genna took offense to TaKe's reactions
Not sure of specific conversations or name-calling involved, but it really seems like both parties have their points but could apologize. Hopefully this all works out, TaKe and TB/Genna are all great IMO.
On August 16 2013 23:05 c0ldfusion wrote: lol @ TB being TB
Poor PR handling aside, I hope the community tends to side with TB when these conflicts come up. He's had a track record of trying to do the right thing.
On August 16 2013 13:10 Bagi wrote: Feels like overreaction. The childish "fuck Take"-stuff isn't helping anyone either.
Yeah man we should totally just hug it out after he threatened my wife and the team with legal action.
Is this the first time you got threatened with legal action? My mom deals with that daily at her work with clients. Grow up. I got threatened with legal action and racism a couple days ago. You know what I did? I played it cool, stayed calm, and finished my transaction with the buyer.
News just in, eSports is not the same as working at a supermarket.
you're so fucking condescending, losing all respect for you along with so many others
Didn't even see that chain. See, this is what I don't get. What drives TB to actually respond to people on TL, especially like that? This guy just isn't mature enough to handle his position, imo.
Sad to hear that Gena has health problems. If she still lives in USA I feel terrible for her. I would serious feel death frightened if i am not a billionaire and would have to live in this health system. Hope she lives in UK with TB
you see the quality of a human being in his will to apologize.
... sadly most clever people nowadays know, that winning an argument/politics is not about being right or wrong. it's just about expressing your opinion the "right" or loudest way. and dodging everyone elses.
this is the way to win the much less clever masses.
very proud people also tend to see apologizing as a weakness, so they rather consider one of the other two options: throw more shit to cover, if possible, the whole surface. or dodge/deny even more.
On August 16 2013 23:39 tadL wrote: Sad to hear that Gena has health problems. If she still lives in USA I feel terrible for her. I would serious feel death frightened if i am not a billionaire and would have to live in this health system. Hope she lives in UK with TB
TB is still in the US, not sure about Genna, but I guess she's as well.
On August 16 2013 13:10 Bagi wrote: Feels like overreaction. The childish "fuck Take"-stuff isn't helping anyone either.
Yeah man we should totally just hug it out after he threatened my wife and the team with legal action.
Uhm....where I come from, you don't have to be afraid of legal actions, if you did not break the law.
On the other hand, if you are afraid of legal actions, you have usualy broken the law and that really is not cool, because law is there for a reason.
But aslong as she's your wife, she can do whatever she wants to do I guess.
He isn’t talking about criminal law, he is talking about civil litigation. Civil litigation has very little to do with “breaking laws”.
Is has everything to with breaking the law! If party A broke the law and party B has injury because of that, party B will sue party A. Maybe it is not criminal law, but the issue here is most definitely 'breaking the law'. Read what Take wrote - it was clear that he was sure that the law was broken.
C'mon be real, this isn't about Take, Genna or TB. It's about the SC2 eSports scene being run badly. Meanwhile Riot and Valve just laugh and watch MLP.
Really rough to see, I guess I didn't realize the amount of crap that goes on, but in retrospect it's pretty obvious given the amount that spills over into public.
If TB is managing now on top of it, gad, he's busy as all hell as it is...
On August 16 2013 13:10 Bagi wrote: Feels like overreaction. The childish "fuck Take"-stuff isn't helping anyone either.
Yeah man we should totally just hug it out after he threatened my wife and the team with legal action.
Uhm....where I come from, you don't have to be afraid of legal actions, if you did not break the law.
On the other hand, if you are afraid of legal actions, you have usualy broken the law and that really is not cool, because law is there for a reason.
But aslong as she's your wife, she can do whatever she wants to do I guess.
He isn’t talking about criminal law, he is talking about civil litigation. Civil litigation has very little to do with “breaking laws”.
Is has everything to with breaking the law! If party A broke the law and party B has injury because of that, party B will sue party A. Maybe it is not criminal law, but the issue here is most definitely 'breaking the law'. Read what Take wrote - it was clear that he was sure that the law was broken.
Law breaking isn’t directly related to civil litigation most of the time. It is not illegal to break a contract and people do it all the time. The other side can seek damages and we have rules in place as to what constitutes a valid contract. When you evict someone, there are laws that dictated the valid causes for an eviction and so for, but the tenant does not “break the law” by not paying rent.
Law is not a math problem that has a solution. You can’t say “Person did X, which broke law A, and therefore I should get $2000 because of Law C”. Its not that simple. Also, even if they did break the contract, good luke to Take bringing a legal action against them, since they are a company based in the US
On August 16 2013 13:10 Bagi wrote: Feels like overreaction. The childish "fuck Take"-stuff isn't helping anyone either.
Yeah man we should totally just hug it out after he threatened my wife and the team with legal action.
Uhm....where I come from, you don't have to be afraid of legal actions, if you did not break the law.
On the other hand, if you are afraid of legal actions, you have usualy broken the law and that really is not cool, because law is there for a reason.
But aslong as she's your wife, she can do whatever she wants to do I guess.
He isn’t talking about criminal law, he is talking about civil litigation. Civil litigation has very little to do with “breaking laws”.
Is has everything to with breaking the law! If party A broke the law and party B has injury because of that, party B will sue party A. Maybe it is not criminal law, but the issue here is most definitely 'breaking the law'. Read what Take wrote - it was clear that he was sure that the law was broken.
On August 16 2013 13:10 Bagi wrote: Feels like overreaction. The childish "fuck Take"-stuff isn't helping anyone either.
Yeah man we should totally just hug it out after he threatened my wife and the team with legal action.
Is this the first time you got threatened with legal action? My mom deals with that daily at her work with clients. Grow up. I got threatened with legal action and racism a couple days ago. You know what I did? I played it cool, stayed calm, and finished my transaction with the buyer.
News just in, eSports is not the same as working at a supermarket.
you're so fucking condescending, losing all respect for you along with so many others
Guys, come on, calm down your discussion here is completely dispensable. There was no threat of sueing anybody from Take. Its just a line in an angry and emotional skype conversation between Take and Gemma, saying something along the lines "I wish you'd get sued for that". Thats obviously not a nice thing to say, and he later put up a public excuse, but it miles away from any REAL law case. Its just a statement of anger. It's like you belive TB tries make a sexual offer towards Take when he's barking "Fuck TAke!" all over the forums. It's shows a gross lack of reading competence.
Well, and TB's behaviour, I mean its just disgusting, really. I don't even wanna go into who acted more professional, and who didnt, but acting like in those quotes above is incredibly childish, self-righteous and narcissistic. Yes I understand, beeing cynical and funny is what you earn your money with TB, but this behaviour is just sad. Too me it looks your just pooring some strange self-hatred all over everybody else. Well everybody has his way to deal with stuff, right? I feel ashamed for you.
I am truly disappointed that TB and Genna are acting like two high school children. TB is trying to "defend" Genna? Maybe she shouldn't have done what she did. She made her bed, let her sleep in it. A terrible attitude from both of you and shitty business practices by posting conversations with a BUSINESS PARTNER. I am all for "lifting the veil" of eSports but not like this... I want some clarity on which organizations are not paying winners and what teams are doing shady shit like KespA with Flash. But this is just fucking sad. Dennis had every right to not only be pissed about you posting it but should be pissed about your unprofessional conduct leading up to this point. You two need to step back, look at the situation, and grow up.
Also, I know TB is going to eventually come out and make some sort of public statement where he uses big words and mild intellect to sound smart but remember he is acting like a damn child and is burning bridges he should have never touched.
- Some teams get more money than others from the organization of some events, independently of performance - Some tournaments hold offline events and teams have to fund the travel expenses I always thought this was something you take for granted, offline event = organization pays. At least for TEAM events. - Everyone involved started this being nice and polite, but they ended up being rude and over dramatic.
I find it amazing how people can discuss minor issues to death but fail to realise the real problem.
Who did fail at communication or whatever is basicly irrelevant. Stuff like that happens all the time.
THE ONLY thing that is worth discussing, and quite frankly, the thing where the fuss is about is the revalation of the private chat.
I read through this whole thread and basicly nobody emphasiced that Take didn't even POST his statement about legal actions, that too was a leaked privat chat by Mrs.Bain (look at the op).
You ask why Take is getting mad about something that lets him look good? Read the chat logs and this time realise that it isn't only about Axiom and TakeTV:
- Take revealed parts of the agreement with Acer which could get him into trouble (and yes Axiom said that Acer isn't mad about the leaking BUT that doesn't mean Acer could have a problem with Take talking to Mrs.Bain about that)
- Take said he helped Liquid out and he offered the same to Axiom. Did he do that for every team? Or only the teams in need? Or the teams clever enough to SAY they are in need (hypopheticaly). THAT is a huge deal. It implicates that not every team got the same treatment from the getgo. This could get Take into trouble as well.
- Liquid accepted Takes help. Ok Take is a nice person right, how is that a problem? Well maybe Liquid doesn't want people to know, that they got that help. Maybe especially not other teammanagers. So suddenly they realise that Take shared that information with someone else without their consent. You know where I'm getting with this.
And there are minor things concering the methods of communication, persons involved, etc which Take perhaps didn't want to be public.
In the end what Mrs.Bain did can hurt Take as a person and TakeTV as a company.
And THAT in my opinion is entitled to threat legal actions.
On August 16 2013 12:58 Joedaddy wrote: Pretty shitty move when you make what one presumed to be a private conversation public. Even if you didn't think it was a big deal, Dennis obviously did.
Fuck Dennis. If he wasn't so concerned about saving face rather than being honest with everybody about his mismanaged tournament then some of this might not have happened. When you say "I hope there are legal consequences for what you've done" all bets are off, I lose any respect I've had for you. I hope Take enjoyed the free casting and the numbers, I'll never deal with him and his organisation ever again.
There were many small things in the past that made me feel that Take's company is kind of unprofessional, but I never had any proof. Now, threatening to sue someone in a scene as small as SC2 - what the fuck. I don't feel like supporting his company via watching anymore after reading this. There seems to be some serious bullshiting going on behind the scenes, and I will keep my views down to the professional streams then. Before reading this post, I felt like "Hm, I kinda don't like what take is doing, but hey, it's still a good portion of scene support and stuff". Well, Take lost at least one viewer permanently now, which is me.
After reading Intracacys blog “AxiomHate 2013 : The ATC Edition” I was, in spite of the sensationalist title, pleasantly surprised by how transparent it was in explaining how, quoted from the blog: “When communication fails, there are no winners”. However, I assumed that she asked for permission to place the private messages between her and TakeTV so that both/ all parties involved could benefit from the blog. The part in it about Liquid tingled my Spider sense a bit but I chose to ignore it I guess, thinking something like “I don't have all information, maybe Liquid was contacted and didn't mind”. Now that I know that that assumption was wrong I must say I feel very sorry for Take. He really didn't do anything wrong in my opinion and the way Total Biscuit responded to him after the emotional PRIVATE Skype call comes of as extremely self centered. Sure, it's hard to stay impartial if someone has an argument with your better half but you could at least try to understand someones position before, again, post the Skype conversation without permission (It was posted by Intracacy but I think I can now, safely assume Total Biscuit is not opposed to it). “Fuck Take” Really?
<3 to Take and I also sincerely hope that all of this doesn't have any repercussions for the axiom players; The've been through enough already.
I'm very curious to know why it's ok for Take to be emotional but it's not ok for Genna or myself to do the same. I guess the double standards shouldn't be surprising by now though.
On August 17 2013 00:24 TotalBiscuit wrote: I'm very curious to know why it's ok for Take to be emotional but it's not ok for Genna or myself to do the same. I guess the double standards shouldn't be surprising by now though.
because being emotional and shit talking people and this community are different things. There was "Fuck take" and "we can talk this out, im still up for it" and you dont see the difference? The only thing you do is create drama and then complain about it like always.
Take was emotional in private, and only after Genna violated his privacy in the first place, and then proceeded to not take the hint and did it again. Then TB decided to spew emotional vitriol in all directions in public for no reason whatsoever. It's pretty pathetic actually when you break it down.
On August 17 2013 00:24 TotalBiscuit wrote: I'm very curious to know why it's ok for Take to be emotional but it's not ok for Genna or myself to do the same. I guess the double standards shouldn't be surprising by now though.
Because Take was emotional behind closed doors and Genna decided to drag it out into the public. He apologised for what he did ,but you can't see anything wrong with how your wife handled the whole situation and you are now blaming each and everyone for everything that happened, most of all Take himself with your childish "Fuck Take" tweet.
You absolutly lack the ability to admit that you and/or your wife are also to blame for this, but instead of manning up and apologising like Take did you go on a witchhunt and throw aroung words in hope some of them will stick.
On August 17 2013 00:24 TotalBiscuit wrote: I'm very curious to know why it's ok for Take to be emotional but it's not ok for Genna or myself to do the same. I guess the double standards shouldn't be surprising by now though.
On August 17 2013 00:24 TotalBiscuit wrote: I'm very curious to know why it's ok for Take to be emotional but it's not ok for Genna or myself to do the same. I guess the double standards shouldn't be surprising by now though.
On August 17 2013 00:24 TotalBiscuit wrote: I'm very curious to know why it's ok for Take to be emotional but it's not ok for Genna or myself to do the same. I guess the double standards shouldn't be surprising by now though.
Well atleast Take doesnt shit talk ppl and the whole community in public.
I'm very curious to know why it's ok for Take to be emotional but it's not ok for Genna or myself to do the same. I guess the double standards shouldn't be surprising by now though.
PROBABLY.....because he did it privately and not like a fucking child. Just a guess though.
On August 17 2013 00:24 TotalBiscuit wrote: I'm very curious to know why it's ok for Take to be emotional but it's not ok for Genna or myself to do the same. I guess the double standards shouldn't be surprising by now though.
If you really do not understand the difference (posting private things public and only react to it) you REALLY have to learn A LOT about being professional!!!!!
On August 17 2013 00:24 TotalBiscuit wrote: I'm very curious to know why it's ok for Take to be emotional but it's not ok for Genna or myself to do the same. I guess the double standards shouldn't be surprising by now though.
Maybe because you are being a complete dick to everyone involved, swearing at people, calling them hurtful names and just spewing bullshit. Take on the other hand, stated his was angry.
So lets see...
Take:"I will still not publish stuff she said cause even if i am angry i will just describe a little bit..." and then explains the situation.
TB : "Fuck Dennis."
Hmm now TB let us think about this for a moment.......
On August 17 2013 00:24 TotalBiscuit wrote: I'm very curious to know why it's ok for Take to be emotional but it's not ok for Genna or myself to do the same. I guess the double standards shouldn't be surprising by now though.
When are you leaving again? Or are you sticking around to stir more crap in an already murky community?
On August 17 2013 00:24 TotalBiscuit wrote: I'm very curious to know why it's ok for Take to be emotional but it's not ok for Genna or myself to do the same. I guess the double standards shouldn't be surprising by now though.
He apologized for being emotional, recognized he made made mistakes, and feels sorry or the situation.
It would be nice if the same gestures would come from the other party. Fess-up, say sorry and move on. And next time, try to avoid doing this on a public forum. (and hire a PR manager with a bit longer fuse than yourself)
On August 16 2013 14:19 Aylear wrote: TB's thoughts on Genna's retirement went mostly unnoticed in this thread, but it really is superb and everyone should listen to it.
Sanctimony in stereo guys, worth a listen just for that.
The one positive is he promises to take a step back from TL/reddit and twitter now so at least he might stop putting his foot in his mouth all the time.
If I don't have to read retarded shit from you guys then it'll probably be the best thing that's ever happened to me.
Oh and it's in mono.
Just keep it going buddy, you are really helping yourself out here.
On August 17 2013 00:24 TotalBiscuit wrote: I'm very curious to know why it's ok for Take to be emotional but it's not ok for Genna or myself to do the same. I guess the double standards shouldn't be surprising by now though.
Maybe because you are being a complete dick to everyone involved, swearing at people, calling them hurtful names and just spewing bullshit.
[...]
Do you get it?
No? Ok whatever. You're hopeless.
Oh, you mean a complete dick just like you are right now, along with 90% of people in these threads?
[6:50:52 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: hey genna [6:51:04 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: are you serious putting [6:51:07 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: my private chats with you [6:51:09 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: online [6:51:15 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: where i talk about acers [6:51:16 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: decisions? [6:51:23 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: which never have to be public? [6:51:25 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: this is crazy [6:51:33 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: actually i hope that by law [6:51:40 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: this is something you can get punnished for?
Actually, when you look at the "threat" in context, it's less a "I hope you, Genna, can get punished" and more a "I hope one in general can get punished". In other words, he hopes it is illegal to make private chats public without everyones consent.
On August 17 2013 00:24 TotalBiscuit wrote: I'm very curious to know why it's ok for Take to be emotional but it's not ok for Genna or myself to do the same. I guess the double standards shouldn't be surprising by now though.
Maybe because you are being a complete dick to everyone involved, swearing at people, calling them hurtful names and just spewing bullshit. Take on the other hand, stated his was angry.
No? Ok whatever. You're hopeless.
The funny thing is that he always points out how "toxic" communities are when they withhunt or attack public figures because the provide a valueable service, but now he is doing the exact same thing even though he is completly wrong, but he has not the balls to admit it.
On August 17 2013 00:24 TotalBiscuit wrote: I'm very curious to know why it's ok for Take to be emotional but it's not ok for Genna or myself to do the same. I guess the double standards shouldn't be surprising by now though.
People just like the drama and the underdog. If you make yourself look like the humble one being preyed upon by someone bigger and badder than you, everyone will love you. No one cares about who is right and who isn't. They just want to cheer for someone who is easiest to like while they egg other people on and stir up the drama while doing their best to drive people out of the SC2 scene.
On August 17 2013 00:24 TotalBiscuit wrote: I'm very curious to know why it's ok for Take to be emotional but it's not ok for Genna or myself to do the same. I guess the double standards shouldn't be surprising by now though.
People just like the drama and the underdog. If you make yourself look like the humble one being preyed upon by someone bigger and badder than you, everyone will love you. No one cares about who is right and who isn't. They just want to cheer for someone who is easiest to like while they egg other people on and stir up the drama while doing their best to drive people out of the SC2 scene.
Pretty much. Nobody gives a shit about the game. All that matters is the drama.
On August 17 2013 00:24 TotalBiscuit wrote: I'm very curious to know why it's ok for Take to be emotional but it's not ok for Genna or myself to do the same. I guess the double standards shouldn't be surprising by now though.
because being emotional and shit talking people and this community are different things. There was "Fuck take" and "we can talk this out, im still up for it" and you dont see the difference? The only thing you do is create drama and then complain about it like always.
yeah, this right here. The responses were 100% different. I don't see how you could call it any other way =/
On August 17 2013 00:24 TotalBiscuit wrote: I'm very curious to know why it's ok for Take to be emotional but it's not ok for Genna or myself to do the same. I guess the double standards shouldn't be surprising by now though.
People just like the drama and the underdog. If you make yourself look like the humble one being preyed upon by someone bigger and badder than you, everyone will love you. No one cares about who is right and who isn't. They just want to cheer for someone who is easiest to like while they egg other people on and stir up the drama while doing their best to drive people out of the SC2 scene.
That is absolutly not what is happening here. People already explained what the HUGE difference between the are, but TB will just ignore it so can live in his bubble where he is in the right completly and Take is the one who deserves to be harassed over Twitter. Or could you explain or justify why Take deserves to be insulted publically on TB's Twitter ?
On August 16 2013 13:19 F4ble wrote: TB's reaction to someone threatening to legally pursue his wife is absolutely justified. What would you do - NOT support the women you love and is married to? Come on...
Despite whatever may be the issue you have to realize that threatening with a lawsuit is a 100% sure way to make enemies. If you expect otherwise then you're not very bright.
Wait wait wait...... so if someone has ground for a civil lawsuit against someone for making private information public and they mention legal actions may be needed due to the actions of the party at fault then they are just stupid asshats?
Maybe I'm just not bright as you said but maybe when your wife fucks up and does something wrong like this, where potential legal action could be a realistic problem you probably shouldn't verbally attack the other party AND the community that will be devouring every single word put out there. MAYBE you should instead talk to your wife, and decide as a couple that you should step back, shut the fuck up, and let it blow over in two days like you know it will. But instead he just has to pour fucking gasoline on a little tiny fire and turn it into this.
TIL If you have a reason to take legal actions against someone and you mention it (on a public forum wasn't the best idea but lets remember who made it all public) you are "not very bright"
[6:50:52 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: hey genna [6:51:04 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: are you serious putting [6:51:07 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: my private chats with you [6:51:09 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: online [6:51:15 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: where i talk about acers [6:51:16 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: decisions? [6:51:23 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: which never have to be public? [6:51:25 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: this is crazy [6:51:33 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: actually i hope that by law [6:51:40 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: this is something you can get punnished for?
Actually, when you look at the "threat" in context, it's less a "I hope you, Genna, can get punished" and more a "I hope one in general can get punished". In other words, he hopes it is illegal to make private chats public without everyones consent.
In Germany it actually is, it's the same law/set of laws that makes it illegal to record e.g. a phone conversation without consent. ("Persönlichkeitsrecht")
On August 17 2013 00:24 TotalBiscuit wrote: I'm very curious to know why it's ok for Take to be emotional but it's not ok for Genna or myself to do the same. I guess the double standards shouldn't be surprising by now though.
People just like the drama and the underdog. If you make yourself look like the humble one being preyed upon by someone bigger and badder than you, everyone will love you. No one cares about who is right and who isn't. They just want to cheer for someone who is easiest to like while they egg other people on and stir up the drama while doing their best to drive people out of the SC2 scene.
Pretty much. Nobody gives a shit about the game. All that matters is the drama.
erm the people who support take, his privacy, and his silent approach to solve the problem are probably not out for drama, and wished all this would never have come to the public...
[6:50:52 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: hey genna [6:51:04 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: are you serious putting [6:51:07 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: my private chats with you [6:51:09 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: online [6:51:15 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: where i talk about acers [6:51:16 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: decisions? [6:51:23 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: which never have to be public? [6:51:25 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: this is crazy [6:51:33 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: actually i hope that by law [6:51:40 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: this is something you can get punnished for?
Actually, when you look at the "threat" in context, it's less a "I hope you, Genna, can get punished" and more a "I hope one in general can get punished". In other words, he hopes it is illegal to make private chats public without everyones consent.
In Germany it actually is, it's the same law/set of laws that makes it illegal to record a phone conversation without consent. ("Persönlichkeitsrecht")
We have similar laws in the US, but they only cover audio recordings, not written correspondence. There is an implied understand that anything you put in an email or letter can be released or shown to others. That’s why written contracts are preferable to verbal ones. Unless an NDA was signed, I do not believe there would be any legal action that Take could bring against them. Also, they are a US company, so it could be very very costly for him to bring that action.
I have always believed shit gets done by being honest and forthright with people and I believe that massively overrides any expectation of "privacy" you might have. Your definition of maturity is irrelevant, it gets nothing done.
What in the actual fuck makes you think you can override any humans expectation of privacy because you feel like being honest is more important. What fucking world do you live in? Overrides any expectation of privacy, that is the single dumbest fucking this I have seen anyone say during this entire ordeal. You just became worse than the most fail trolls I have ever seen.
On August 17 2013 00:24 TotalBiscuit wrote: I'm very curious to know why it's ok for Take to be emotional but it's not ok for Genna or myself to do the same. I guess the double standards shouldn't be surprising by now though.
People just like the drama and the underdog. If you make yourself look like the humble one being preyed upon by someone bigger and badder than you, everyone will love you. No one cares about who is right and who isn't. They just want to cheer for someone who is easiest to like while they egg other people on and stir up the drama while doing their best to drive people out of the SC2 scene.
This is SHIT. TB is making him humble himself with his noob comments. And where he is bigger (ok he is bigger) or better than Take I cant see. The Problem is, TB thinks he is BETTER or the BEST. But s.o. has to tell him: YOU ARE NOT!
On August 17 2013 00:24 TotalBiscuit wrote: I'm very curious to know why it's ok for Take to be emotional but it's not ok for Genna or myself to do the same. I guess the double standards shouldn't be surprising by now though.
People just like the drama and the underdog. If you make yourself look like the humble one being preyed upon by someone bigger and badder than you, everyone will love you. No one cares about who is right and who isn't. They just want to cheer for someone who is easiest to like while they egg other people on and stir up the drama while doing their best to drive people out of the SC2 scene.
Pretty much. Nobody gives a shit about the game. All that matters is the drama.
erm the people who support take, his privacy, and his silent approach to solve the problem are probably not out for drama, and wished all this would never have come to the public...
You can support TaKe without shitting all over important community figures who have done much more for this scene than you ever will.
But hey this community shits on literally everyone so I'm not surprised...
On August 17 2013 00:24 TotalBiscuit wrote: I'm very curious to know why it's ok for Take to be emotional but it's not ok for Genna or myself to do the same. I guess the double standards shouldn't be surprising by now though.
People just like the drama and the underdog. If you make yourself look like the humble one being preyed upon by someone bigger and badder than you, everyone will love you. No one cares about who is right and who isn't. They just want to cheer for someone who is easiest to like while they egg other people on and stir up the drama while doing their best to drive people out of the SC2 scene.
This is SHIT. TB is making him humble himself with his noob comments. And where he is bigger (ok he is bigger) or better than Take I cant see. The Problem is, TB thinks he is BETTER or the BEST. But s.o. has to tell him: YOU ARE NOT!
No, this is pretty honest. You will get a lot of internet support if you act like the victim, rather than stick up for yourself. If you say “you were here to help the community, that you love the game and are just doing the best you can”, you will get support. If you are honest and say “I am trying to make a live and stick up for my players, which sometimes means I don’t get along with other this guy” everyone shits on you.
[6:50:52 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: hey genna [6:51:04 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: are you serious putting [6:51:07 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: my private chats with you [6:51:09 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: online [6:51:15 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: where i talk about acers [6:51:16 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: decisions? [6:51:23 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: which never have to be public? [6:51:25 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: this is crazy [6:51:33 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: actually i hope that by law [6:51:40 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: this is something you can get punnished for?
Actually, when you look at the "threat" in context, it's less a "I hope you, Genna, can get punished" and more a "I hope one in general can get punished". In other words, he hopes it is illegal to make private chats public without everyones consent.
In Germany it actually is, it's the same law/set of laws that makes it illegal to record a phone conversation without consent. ("Persönlichkeitsrecht")
We have similar laws in the US, but they only cover audio recordings, not written correspondence.
The German law doesn't cover written correspondence either. What Genna did isn't illegal in Germany. What Take could do if he can proof that Acer (or someone else) won't do any business with him due to those chat logs, he could sue Genna for compensation.
On August 17 2013 00:24 TotalBiscuit wrote: I'm very curious to know why it's ok for Take to be emotional but it's not ok for Genna or myself to do the same. I guess the double standards shouldn't be surprising by now though.
People just like the drama and the underdog. If you make yourself look like the humble one being preyed upon by someone bigger and badder than you, everyone will love you. No one cares about who is right and who isn't. They just want to cheer for someone who is easiest to like while they egg other people on and stir up the drama while doing their best to drive people out of the SC2 scene.
Pretty much. Nobody gives a shit about the game. All that matters is the drama.
erm the people who support take, his privacy, and his silent approach to solve the problem are probably not out for drama, and wished all this would never have come to the public...
You can support TaKe without shitting all over important community figures who have done much more for this scene than you ever will.
But hey this community shits on literally everyone so I'm not surprised...
What are you crying for? That your favorite guy gets slaughterd with his own weapons? Which are: Go and denigrate People? Make private things public. Or just write nonsense?
On August 17 2013 00:24 TotalBiscuit wrote: I'm very curious to know why it's ok for Take to be emotional but it's not ok for Genna or myself to do the same. I guess the double standards shouldn't be surprising by now though.
People just like the drama and the underdog. If you make yourself look like the humble one being preyed upon by someone bigger and badder than you, everyone will love you. No one cares about who is right and who isn't. They just want to cheer for someone who is easiest to like while they egg other people on and stir up the drama while doing their best to drive people out of the SC2 scene.
Pretty much. Nobody gives a shit about the game. All that matters is the drama.
erm the people who support take, his privacy, and his silent approach to solve the problem are probably not out for drama, and wished all this would never have come to the public...
You can support TaKe without shitting all over important community figures who have done much more for this scene than you ever will.
But hey this community shits on literally everyone so I'm not surprised...
No one is shitting on anyone. Please stop being a delusional fanboy. You still haven't answered how is TB in the right and justified to witchhunt, insult and blame Take publically for all of this. I am eagerly awaiting an explanation.
You know what Take did, he manned up and apologised for what he did wrong. You know what TB does, he spouts his hateful and ignorant rants at everyone who does not agree with his childish bevahiour.
On August 17 2013 00:24 TotalBiscuit wrote: I'm very curious to know why it's ok for Take to be emotional but it's not ok for Genna or myself to do the same. I guess the double standards shouldn't be surprising by now though.
People just like the drama and the underdog. If you make yourself look like the humble one being preyed upon by someone bigger and badder than you, everyone will love you. No one cares about who is right and who isn't. They just want to cheer for someone who is easiest to like while they egg other people on and stir up the drama while doing their best to drive people out of the SC2 scene.
Pretty much. Nobody gives a shit about the game. All that matters is the drama.
erm the people who support take, his privacy, and his silent approach to solve the problem are probably not out for drama, and wished all this would never have come to the public...
You can support TaKe without shitting all over important community figures who have done much more for this scene than you ever will.
But hey this community shits on literally everyone so I'm not surprised...
No one is shitting on anyone. Please stop being a delusional fanboy. You still haven't answered how is TB in the right and justified to witchhunt, insult and blame Take publically for all of this. I am eagerly awaiting an explanation.
You know what Take did, he manned up and apologised for what he did wrong. You know what TB does, he spouts his hateful and ignorant rants at everyone who does not agree with his childish bevahiour.
Makes sense that someone from Germany would call me a fanboy.
I don't care about who is right or wrong. I care about the fact that all of you drama-hungry kids are acting like fucking morons all the time. That's what makes this community so fucking cancerous. Not what happens, but how "the people" react to it.
On August 17 2013 00:24 TotalBiscuit wrote: I'm very curious to know why it's ok for Take to be emotional but it's not ok for Genna or myself to do the same. I guess the double standards shouldn't be surprising by now though.
People just like the drama and the underdog. If you make yourself look like the humble one being preyed upon by someone bigger and badder than you, everyone will love you. No one cares about who is right and who isn't. They just want to cheer for someone who is easiest to like while they egg other people on and stir up the drama while doing their best to drive people out of the SC2 scene.
Pretty much. Nobody gives a shit about the game. All that matters is the drama.
erm the people who support take, his privacy, and his silent approach to solve the problem are probably not out for drama, and wished all this would never have come to the public...
You can support TaKe without shitting all over important community figures who have done much more for this scene than you ever will.
But hey this community shits on literally everyone so I'm not surprised...
On August 17 2013 00:24 TotalBiscuit wrote: I'm very curious to know why it's ok for Take to be emotional but it's not ok for Genna or myself to do the same. I guess the double standards shouldn't be surprising by now though.
People just like the drama and the underdog. If you make yourself look like the humble one being preyed upon by someone bigger and badder than you, everyone will love you. No one cares about who is right and who isn't. They just want to cheer for someone who is easiest to like while they egg other people on and stir up the drama while doing their best to drive people out of the SC2 scene.
That is absolutly not what is happening here. People already explained what the HUGE difference between the are, but TB will just ignore it so can live in his bubble where he is in the right completly and Take is the one who deserves to be harassed over Twitter. Or could you explain or justify why Take deserves to be insulted publically on TB's Twitter ?
I'm not going to justify someone else's behavoiur and I'm not going to sit here and judge either side. What I'm saying is that people care more about drama and shit than they care about the game. People are in love with being outraged and people don't really care about SC2. Just because people a spat is happening in public doesn't mean we all need to get involved and start taking sides. It's such garbage and benefits no one. The community doesn't help in the slightest in trying to resolve anything between Take and TB. They are both capable of having an argument and dealing with it without our ignorant help.
I'm not defending either side. I'm just saying people love to get wrapped up in any business that happens in public, even when it doesn't involve them - and that helps no one.
EDIT: and this thread is Genna's retirement letter and people can't be decent enough to come here and wish her well as she retires without needing to shit on her and be outraged. People want to make a bigger deal out of this than it ever needs to be and offer crap legal advice to Take or pick a side and trash the other. All of this behaviour is really toxic and unhelpful. Even if people think they are being helpful by being outraged on someone else's behalf.
On August 17 2013 00:24 TotalBiscuit wrote: I'm very curious to know why it's ok for Take to be emotional but it's not ok for Genna or myself to do the same. I guess the double standards shouldn't be surprising by now though.
People just like the drama and the underdog. If you make yourself look like the humble one being preyed upon by someone bigger and badder than you, everyone will love you. No one cares about who is right and who isn't. They just want to cheer for someone who is easiest to like while they egg other people on and stir up the drama while doing their best to drive people out of the SC2 scene.
This is SHIT. TB is making him humble himself with his noob comments. And where he is bigger (ok he is bigger) or better than Take I cant see. The Problem is, TB thinks he is BETTER or the BEST. But s.o. has to tell him: YOU ARE NOT!
No, this is pretty honest. You will get a lot of internet support if you act like the victim, rather than stick up for yourself. If you say “you were here to help the community, that you love the game and are just doing the best you can”, you will get support. If you are honest and say “I am trying to make a live and stick up for my players, which sometimes means I don’t get along with other this guy” everyone shits on you.
Thats right. BUT. This is not happenig in this thread!!!! Nobody says "oh poor Take" NO but everybody says to put private things public is SHIT. And so it is. And to defend this Point with the knowing that it was wrong is the silliest Thing TB could do!!! So everybody wishes him to understand that he is wrong. But he cant accept!! (sorry for my poor english)
On August 17 2013 00:24 TotalBiscuit wrote: I'm very curious to know why it's ok for Take to be emotional but it's not ok for Genna or myself to do the same. I guess the double standards shouldn't be surprising by now though.
People just like the drama and the underdog. If you make yourself look like the humble one being preyed upon by someone bigger and badder than you, everyone will love you. No one cares about who is right and who isn't. They just want to cheer for someone who is easiest to like while they egg other people on and stir up the drama while doing their best to drive people out of the SC2 scene.
Pretty much. Nobody gives a shit about the game. All that matters is the drama.
erm the people who support take, his privacy, and his silent approach to solve the problem are probably not out for drama, and wished all this would never have come to the public...
You can support TaKe without shitting all over important community figures who have done much more for this scene than you ever will.
But hey this community shits on literally everyone so I'm not surprised...
What has this "he has done so much for the community" to do with it? Can´t say what I think because he is untouchable cause of his great accomplishments ? Is he god and no one has to doubt him ? Aside from that : I see rarely any harsh comments, no one of them nearly as harsh as TBs own words.
On August 17 2013 00:24 TotalBiscuit wrote: I'm very curious to know why it's ok for Take to be emotional but it's not ok for Genna or myself to do the same. I guess the double standards shouldn't be surprising by now though.
People just like the drama and the underdog. If you make yourself look like the humble one being preyed upon by someone bigger and badder than you, everyone will love you. No one cares about who is right and who isn't. They just want to cheer for someone who is easiest to like while they egg other people on and stir up the drama while doing their best to drive people out of the SC2 scene.
Pretty much. Nobody gives a shit about the game. All that matters is the drama.
erm the people who support take, his privacy, and his silent approach to solve the problem are probably not out for drama, and wished all this would never have come to the public...
You can support TaKe without shitting all over important community figures who have done much more for this scene than you ever will.
But hey this community shits on literally everyone so I'm not surprised...
No one is shitting on anyone. Please stop being a delusional fanboy. You still haven't answered how is TB in the right and justified to witchhunt, insult and blame Take publically for all of this. I am eagerly awaiting an explanation.
You know what Take did, he manned up and apologised for what he did wrong. You know what TB does, he spouts his hateful and ignorant rants at everyone who does not agree with his childish bevahiour.
Makes sense that someone from Germany would call me a fanboy.
I don't care about who is right or wrong. I care about the fact that all of you drama-hungry kids are acting like fucking morons all the time. That's what makes this community so fucking cancerous. Not what happens, but how "the people" react to it.
I don't even care about Take, I have only seen the third HSC. They way TB and his wife handeled this was absolutly disgusting and dishonest. Also, whose idea was it to drag this out in the open ? Take's ? The communite's ? Or TB and his wife ? You reap what you sow.
And people here really have the audacity to even wonder why guys like Tasteless, Day9, Artosis or who-have-you don't check TL (anymore) and why MLG (among many others) have been so sparse with the intel they give out.
Good grief, why is this still my browser's homepage yet?
On August 17 2013 01:15 Azelja wrote: And people here really have the audacity to even wonder why guys like Tasteless, Day9, Artosis or who-have-you don't check TL (anymore) and why MLG (among many others) have been so sparse with the intel they give out.
On August 17 2013 00:24 TotalBiscuit wrote: I'm very curious to know why it's ok for Take to be emotional but it's not ok for Genna or myself to do the same. I guess the double standards shouldn't be surprising by now though.
People just like the drama and the underdog. If you make yourself look like the humble one being preyed upon by someone bigger and badder than you, everyone will love you. No one cares about who is right and who isn't. They just want to cheer for someone who is easiest to like while they egg other people on and stir up the drama while doing their best to drive people out of the SC2 scene.
Pretty much. Nobody gives a shit about the game. All that matters is the drama.
erm the people who support take, his privacy, and his silent approach to solve the problem are probably not out for drama, and wished all this would never have come to the public...
You can support TaKe without shitting all over important community figures who have done much more for this scene than you ever will.
But hey this community shits on literally everyone so I'm not surprised...
No one is shitting on anyone. Please stop being a delusional fanboy. You still haven't answered how is TB in the right and justified to witchhunt, insult and blame Take publically for all of this. I am eagerly awaiting an explanation.
You know what Take did, he manned up and apologised for what he did wrong. You know what TB does, he spouts his hateful and ignorant rants at everyone who does not agree with his childish bevahiour.
Makes sense that someone from Germany would call me a fanboy.
I don't care about who is right or wrong. I care about the fact that all of you drama-hungry kids are acting like fucking morons all the time. That's what makes this community so fucking cancerous. Not what happens, but how "the people" react to it.
I don't even care about Take, I have only seen the third HSC. They way TB and his wife handeled this was absolutly disgusting and dishonest. Also, whose idea was it to drag this out in the open ? Take's ? The communite's ? Or TB and his wife ? You reap what you sow.
Well TB and his wife have done a lot for the community and their their players, including invest tons of money into the scene. This is a minor issue compaired to all the good stuff they have done. At the end of the day, I don't think it will a huge problem. Just drama of the day.
On August 17 2013 01:15 Azelja wrote: And people here really have the audacity to even wonder why guys like Tasteless, Day9, Artosis or who-have-you don't check TL (anymore) and why MLG (among many others) have been so sparse with the intel they give out.
Good grief, why is this still my browser's homepage yet?
And this is exactly how this whole shitstorm could have been prevented. Just not make anything public. I don't quite get, why it had to be made public in the first place ? Was it supposed to be a smear campaign towards Take ?
people should drop the "but xyz did good stuff in the past", when someone fucks up he fucks up and has to be accountable for it. (thats a general statement for all who are bad at comprehending )
Tbh i liked Total Biscuit before this whole sharade. But after getting to the bottom of the dispute and reading all of his comments here I must say his image took a nosedive in my eyes.
Im amazed at how bad he handled the situation and how blinded he is to see that his wife screwed up royally. Ofcourse you will defend your better half, I got nothing against that, but he goes full aggresive against the majority of the community who didnt happen to take their side and defends that by saying we only know a tiny part of the story. Well than, if you want to call people here retards for having reasonable conclusions on the situation that YOU (or your wife) presented, then at least first fill us in on the blanks and explain why indeed we are retards. Oh and the irony is this whole thing wouldnt have happened if you didnt publish the chatlogs in the first place , but then you complain that we dont know anything.
Because make no mistake, this thing, as it stands now with the limited (or not) story presented, is entirelly a screw up made by your wife. Please explain how its not. Or you can do the thing you like and call me and other retards.
You just DONT publish private chatlogs. You should know better and probably when you cool of a bit from this whole situation as its very personal and thus stressful for you and your wife, you will see that what she did was wrong and inexcusable.
On August 17 2013 01:21 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Quality people are leaving SC2 eSports in droves for the simple reasons I predicted about months ago. No Money.
The oracle has spoken. He predicted this long ago by making overly broad statements that can be interpreted in almost any fashion, allowing them to be true at almost all time.
On August 17 2013 01:21 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Quality people are leaving SC2 eSports in droves for the simple reasons I predicted about months ago. No Money.
The oracle has spoken. He predicted this long ago by making overly broad statements that can be interpreted in almost any fashion, allowing them to be true at almost all time.
On August 17 2013 01:21 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Quality people are leaving SC2 eSports in droves for the simple reasons I predicted about months ago. No Money.
The oracle has spoken. He predicted this long ago by making overly broad statements that can be interpreted in almost any fashion, allowing them to be true at almost all time.
On August 17 2013 01:21 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Quality people are leaving SC2 eSports in droves for the simple reasons I predicted about months ago. No Money.
The oracle has spoken. He predicted this long ago by making overly broad statements that can be interpreted in almost any fashion, allowing them to be true at almost all time.
it was obvious to any one in the biz. how are the Blue Jays doing? Ovechkin won the Hart. Lawrie is injured again. Carlyle did a great job. My track record is pretty specific and pretty good, but not perfect.
On August 17 2013 01:15 Azelja wrote: And people here really have the audacity to even wonder why guys like Tasteless, Day9, Artosis or who-have-you don't check TL (anymore) and why MLG (among many others) have been so sparse with the intel they give out.
Good grief, why is this still my browser's homepage yet?
Are you saying TB is responsible for Tasteless, Day9 and Artosis withdrawing? Otherwise I don't get your point, as he's the one posting the most toxic content in here, is he not?
Or maybe you're saying that the community constantly posts private conversations with Tasteless, Day9 and Artosis in public without asking for permission?
On August 17 2013 01:15 Azelja wrote: And people here really have the audacity to even wonder why guys like Tasteless, Day9, Artosis or who-have-you don't check TL (anymore) and why MLG (among many others) have been so sparse with the intel they give out.
Good grief, why is this still my browser's homepage yet?
And this is exactly how this whole shitstorm could have been prevented. Just not make anything public. I don't quite get, why it had to be made public in the first place ? Was it supposed to be a smear campaign towards Take ?
When Axiom started they stated they wanted to be as transparent as possible, of course this turned out to be a mistake sadly. Being transparent in anything business isn't a good idea.
On August 17 2013 00:00 Chon231 wrote: I am truly disappointed that TB and Genna are acting like two high school children. TB is trying to "defend" Genna? Maybe she shouldn't have done what she did. She made her bed, let her sleep in it. A terrible attitude from both of you and shitty business practices by posting conversations with a BUSINESS PARTNER. I am all for "lifting the veil" of eSports but not like this... I want some clarity on which organizations are not paying winners and what teams are doing shady shit like KespA with Flash. But this is just fucking sad. Dennis had every right to not only be pissed about you posting it but should be pissed about your unprofessional conduct leading up to this point. You two need to step back, look at the situation, and grow up.
Also, I know TB is going to eventually come out and make some sort of public statement where he uses big words and mild intellect to sound smart but remember he is acting like a damn child and is burning bridges he should have never touched.
Meh, rant over go TL!
Just a point of advice. Dont know if you are married or what. But you should defend your wife. You need to defend your wife. You have to defend your wife. You can argue about how he defended, but never about if he should.
On August 17 2013 01:21 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Quality people are leaving SC2 eSports in droves for the simple reasons I predicted about months ago. No Money.
The oracle has spoken. He predicted this long ago by making overly broad statements that can be interpreted in almost any fashion, allowing them to be true at almost all time.
it was obvious to any one in the biz. how are the Blue Jays doing? Ovechkin won the Hart. Lawrie is injured again. Carlyle did a great job. My track record is pretty specific and pretty good.
Well when your predictions are akin to "The stock market will rise!" or "The stock market will fall" is pretty easy to have a good track record.
On August 17 2013 01:21 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Quality people are leaving SC2 eSports in droves for the simple reasons I predicted about months ago. No Money.
The oracle has spoken. He predicted this long ago by making overly broad statements that can be interpreted in almost any fashion, allowing them to be true at almost all time.
it was obvious to any one in the biz. how are the Blue Jays doing? Ovechkin won the Hart. Lawrie is injured again. Carlyle did a great job. My track record is pretty specific and pretty good.
Well when your predictions are akin to "The stock market will rise!" or "The stock market will fall" is pretty easy to have a good track record.
actually.. my long drawn out "sell your ATVI stock now" was dead bang on the money. but let's not derail this thread. let's keep it on topic.
it'll be interesting to see how much longer Axiom sticks around with Genna gone.
On August 17 2013 01:21 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Quality people are leaving SC2 eSports in droves for the simple reasons I predicted about months ago. No Money.
On August 17 2013 01:15 Azelja wrote: And people here really have the audacity to even wonder why guys like Tasteless, Day9, Artosis or who-have-you don't check TL (anymore) and why MLG (among many others) have been so sparse with the intel they give out.
Good grief, why is this still my browser's homepage yet?
And this is exactly how this whole shitstorm could have been prevented. Just not make anything public. I don't quite get, why it had to be made public in the first place ? Was it supposed to be a smear campaign towards Take ?
When Axiom started they stated they wanted to be as transparent as possible, of course this turned out to be a mistake sadly. Being transparent in anything business isn't a good idea.
Being transparent is always good. But it does not involve releasing private mails or chatlogs. He could have just made a statement, and would be done. But to me it seems like he wanted to start a witchhunt against Take (Fuck Take - TB 2013).
On August 17 2013 01:15 Azelja wrote: And people here really have the audacity to even wonder why guys like Tasteless, Day9, Artosis or who-have-you don't check TL (anymore) and why MLG (among many others) have been so sparse with the intel they give out.
Good grief, why is this still my browser's homepage yet?
And this is exactly how this whole shitstorm could have been prevented. Just not make anything public. I don't quite get, why it had to be made public in the first place ? Was it supposed to be a smear campaign towards Take ?
When Axiom started they stated they wanted to be as transparent as possible, of course this turned out to be a mistake sadly. Being transparent in anything business isn't a good idea.
You can be transparent if you want, but at least arrange it with all parties involved in your transparency.
On August 17 2013 00:24 TotalBiscuit wrote: I'm very curious to know why it's ok for Take to be emotional but it's not ok for Genna or myself to do the same. I guess the double standards shouldn't be surprising by now though.
People just like the drama and the underdog. If you make yourself look like the humble one being preyed upon by someone bigger and badder than you, everyone will love you. No one cares about who is right and who isn't. They just want to cheer for someone who is easiest to like while they egg other people on and stir up the drama while doing their best to drive people out of the SC2 scene.
Pretty much. Nobody gives a shit about the game. All that matters is the drama.
erm the people who support take, his privacy, and his silent approach to solve the problem are probably not out for drama, and wished all this would never have come to the public...
You can support TaKe without shitting all over important community figures who have done much more for this scene than you ever will.
But hey this community shits on literally everyone so I'm not surprised...
I do not shit over TB, i read and heard all the material avaible and have come to the conclusion that TB is wrong and should apologize, his aggressive behavior, as yours, is unnescessary and uncalled for, especially if it is directed towards Take. The best thing would have been to solve this behind the scenes, equaling no drama at all, but that is no longer possible.
lastly, dont lump you and me (or the whole community) together.
This community is amazingly toxic, if this blows up to the point Axiom closes we will have one less team in the scene. The scene is stagnating and this reddit mentality helps nothing. I see this over and over again, anonymous posters pestering a public figure of the community until they snap and start lashing out, seen this with incontrol, idra, tb and countless others before. Like highschool bullying of some sort. The sad thing is when the game starts losing more and more presence these trolls will jump ship to whatever game.
I hope TB and Genna have the strength to keep on trucking, the voice of the community has become the bane of the people trying to advance Starcraft.
On August 17 2013 01:15 Azelja wrote: And people here really have the audacity to even wonder why guys like Tasteless, Day9, Artosis or who-have-you don't check TL (anymore) and why MLG (among many others) have been so sparse with the intel they give out.
Good grief, why is this still my browser's homepage yet?
And this is exactly how this whole shitstorm could have been prevented. Just not make anything public. I don't quite get, why it had to be made public in the first place ? Was it supposed to be a smear campaign towards Take ?
When Axiom started they stated they wanted to be as transparent as possible, of course this turned out to be a mistake sadly. Being transparent in anything business isn't a good idea.
You can be transparent if you want, but at least arrange it with all parties involved in your transparency.
There wasn't anything bad in what she released, so I dont see a problem. It mostly showed that both sides worked very hard to work something out. Really, I don't know why TakeTV is upset about it, because it really just shows that they both give a shit and it just didn't make sense for them to come.
On August 17 2013 01:31 theBlues wrote: This community is amazingly toxic, if this blows up to the point Axiom closes we will have one less team in the scene. The scene is stagnating and this reddit mentality helps nothing. I see this over and over again, anonymous posters pestering a public figure of the community until they snap and start lashing out, seen this with incontrol, idra, tb and countless others before. Like highschool bullying of some sort. The sad thing is when the game starts losing more and more presence these trolls will jump ship to whatever game.
I hope TB and Genna have the strength to keep on trucking, the voice of the community has become the bane of the people trying to advance Starcraft.
You know who has been the most toxic during this whole thing, TB himself. He publically insulted and started a witchhunt against Take, please explain to me how this is justified or the appropriate thing to do.
On August 17 2013 01:15 Azelja wrote: And people here really have the audacity to even wonder why guys like Tasteless, Day9, Artosis or who-have-you don't check TL (anymore) and why MLG (among many others) have been so sparse with the intel they give out.
Good grief, why is this still my browser's homepage yet?
Are you saying TB is responsible for Tasteless, Day9 and Artosis withdrawing? Otherwise I don't get your point, as he's the one posting the most toxic content in here, is he not?
Or maybe you're saying that the community constantly posts private conversations with Tasteless, Day9 and Artosis in public to make them look bad?
I'm not quite sure if you are serious or not... but oh well. What I am saying is that this community (I think given recent occurrences I should mention that obviously I'm not referring to the actually reasonable and genuinely nice people both here and the ones that go to offline tournaments to cheer) has gone so far downhill in it's (hurtful) flaming, trolling and drama-inducing bullshit that it can't even see the light of better days anymore yet still for some reason wonders why nobody likes it and many of the "community figures" are avoiding the forums.
On August 17 2013 01:15 Azelja wrote: And people here really have the audacity to even wonder why guys like Tasteless, Day9, Artosis or who-have-you don't check TL (anymore) and why MLG (among many others) have been so sparse with the intel they give out.
Good grief, why is this still my browser's homepage yet?
And this is exactly how this whole shitstorm could have been prevented. Just not make anything public. I don't quite get, why it had to be made public in the first place ? Was it supposed to be a smear campaign towards Take ?
When Axiom started they stated they wanted to be as transparent as possible, of course this turned out to be a mistake sadly. Being transparent in anything business isn't a good idea.
You can be transparent if you want, but at least arrange it with all parties involved in your transparency.
There wasn't anything bad in what she released, so I dont see a problem. It mostly showed that both sides worked very hard to work something out. Really, I don't know why TakeTV is upset about it, because it really just shows that they both give a shit and it just didn't make sense for them to come.
It was explained several times already why it was bad what she released (Take paying for Liquid, Acer looking bad, maybe Liquid does not want that anyone knows that Take helps them out f.e.), i absolutely see why TakeTV is upset about it, and you should, too. The whole things was a minor problem, not even worth mentioning, just some mistakes that can happen...as long as it was private.
I feel like I am watching an episode of "Days of our Lives" or some shit when it comes to this stuff now. People seem to always shit on each other every week over this miscommunication or that inconvenience and it is really starting to get out of control. Stop posting private messages between you and said party that you think fucked you over to try and prove to the community that you are not a bad guy and just release a statement that explains your situation without giving out every single detail. In the long run it makes you look petty, and it makes other people hate you.
On August 17 2013 01:31 theBlues wrote: This community is amazingly toxic, if this blows up to the point Axiom closes we will have one less team in the scene. The scene is stagnating and this reddit mentality helps nothing. I see this over and over again, anonymous posters pestering a public figure of the community until they snap and start lashing out, seen this with incontrol, idra, tb and countless others before. Like highschool bullying of some sort. The sad thing is when the game starts losing more and more presence these trolls will jump ship to whatever game.
I hope TB and Genna have the strength to keep on trucking, the voice of the community has become the bane of the people trying to advance Starcraft.
You know who has been the most toxic during this whole thing, TB himself. He publically insulted and started a witchhunt against Take, please explain to me how this is justified or the appropriate thing to do.
That is what happens when you get pestered by anonymous bullies, people are not robots and will start to get hurt and stressed out eventually.
The ¨community backlash¨ is what started all of this like it always does.
On August 17 2013 00:24 TotalBiscuit wrote: I'm very curious to know why it's ok for Take to be emotional but it's not ok for Genna or myself to do the same. I guess the double standards shouldn't be surprising by now though.
He apologized for being emotional, recognized he made made mistakes, and feels sorry or the situation.
It would be nice if the same gestures would come from the other party. Fess-up, say sorry and move on. And next time, try to avoid doing this on a public forum. (and hire a PR manager with a bit longer fuse than yourself)
TB is borderline narcissistic in my non-expert opinion. How many times have we seen him at the center of this kind of crap? I'm sick of his "I'm incapable of being wrong" attitude and childish behavior.
Much love Take <3 We need more people like you and a whole lot less of TB imo. I just hope the Axiom players come out of all this alright. They're going to be the real losers if Axiom fails in the end.
On August 17 2013 01:31 theBlues wrote: This community is amazingly toxic, if this blows up to the point Axiom closes we will have one less team in the scene. The scene is stagnating and this reddit mentality helps nothing. I see this over and over again, anonymous posters pestering a public figure of the community until they snap and start lashing out, seen this with incontrol, idra, tb and countless others before. Like highschool bullying of some sort. The sad thing is when the game starts losing more and more presence these trolls will jump ship to whatever game.
I hope TB and Genna have the strength to keep on trucking, the voice of the community has become the bane of the people trying to advance Starcraft.
You know who has been the most toxic during this whole thing, TB himself. He publically insulted and started a witchhunt against Take, please explain to me how this is justified or the appropriate thing to do.
That is what happens when you get pestered by anonymous bullies, people are not robots and will start to get hurt and stressed out eventually.
The ¨community backlash¨ is what started all of this like it always does.
Can you stop treating TB like a saint? He started this shit with "fuck take" "fuck take he should stop trying to save face" Every fucking public message of him had only 1 purpose: hopefully the community will get mad at take
Or can you tell me 1 other reason for making these rants public? that is literally the start of a shitstorm but it backfired.
One last word, something I don't get. If I was in this situation, of course I would want to protect my wife. Sure as hell! What would protect her the most, would be to keep this thing small, not shout insults at everybody saying a wortd, which multiplies the amount of attention the whole sad story gets. Ok so finally, get better with your health issues Gemma, apart from everything else this is what matters in the end.
On August 17 2013 01:31 theBlues wrote: This community is amazingly toxic, if this blows up to the point Axiom closes we will have one less team in the scene. The scene is stagnating and this reddit mentality helps nothing. I see this over and over again, anonymous posters pestering a public figure of the community until they snap and start lashing out, seen this with incontrol, idra, tb and countless others before. Like highschool bullying of some sort. The sad thing is when the game starts losing more and more presence these trolls will jump ship to whatever game.
I hope TB and Genna have the strength to keep on trucking, the voice of the community has become the bane of the people trying to advance Starcraft.
You know who has been the most toxic during this whole thing, TB himself. He publically insulted and started a witchhunt against Take, please explain to me how this is justified or the appropriate thing to do.
The ¨community backlash¨ is what started all of this like it always does.
Bullshit. All of this was started because Genna made the chatlogs private, no one else is to blame for this public drama. The community/bullies/trolls or whoever did not demand for this to made public. They released this stuff to have the higher ground, and did it again after Take complained.
On August 17 2013 01:15 Azelja wrote: And people here really have the audacity to even wonder why guys like Tasteless, Day9, Artosis or who-have-you don't check TL (anymore) and why MLG (among many others) have been so sparse with the intel they give out.
Good grief, why is this still my browser's homepage yet?
And this is exactly how this whole shitstorm could have been prevented. Just not make anything public. I don't quite get, why it had to be made public in the first place ? Was it supposed to be a smear campaign towards Take ?
When Axiom started they stated they wanted to be as transparent as possible, of course this turned out to be a mistake sadly. Being transparent in anything business isn't a good idea.
You can be transparent if you want, but at least arrange it with all parties involved in your transparency.
There wasn't anything bad in what she released, so I dont see a problem. It mostly showed that both sides worked very hard to work something out. Really, I don't know why TakeTV is upset about it, because it really just shows that they both give a shit and it just didn't make sense for them to come.
It was explained several times already why it was bad what she released (Take paying for Liquid, Acer looking bad, maybe Liquid does not want that anyone knows that Take helps them out f.e.), i absolutely see why TakeTV is upset about it, and you should, too. The whole things was a minor problem, not even worth mentioning, just some mistakes that can happen...as long as it was private.
I'm not upset at all in any way. As I said in another thread, I am at work today preparing a motion to release another attorney's emails to the court to show he has been misleading the court and acting in bad faith. Although he never lies outright, he is a pain and likes to omit information he provides to the court and my attorneys are sick of it. It is considered unprofessional by some, but at the end of the day it gets what we want. Its mean, but we want him to knock it off and this is a slap in the face to get that done.
Business is a mean and people don't always get along. We are not one big happy SC2 family, but a small group of teams and events all trying to make a living.
Not too interested in the starcraft side of eSports these days - nor the matter at hand - but it's definitely not acceptable to post (meant to be) private business correspondence for people to gawk at. Much less not to omit identifiable details like names and such.
Sorry, but it's pretty obvious who's in the wrong here. "Lifting the veil" doesn't necessitate inviting people into your home to see how things are run and then also leaving the bathroom door open as you take a shit.
On August 17 2013 01:31 theBlues wrote: This community is amazingly toxic, if this blows up to the point Axiom closes we will have one less team in the scene. The scene is stagnating and this reddit mentality helps nothing. I see this over and over again, anonymous posters pestering a public figure of the community until they snap and start lashing out, seen this with incontrol, idra, tb and countless others before. Like highschool bullying of some sort. The sad thing is when the game starts losing more and more presence these trolls will jump ship to whatever game.
I hope TB and Genna have the strength to keep on trucking, the voice of the community has become the bane of the people trying to advance Starcraft.
You know who has been the most toxic during this whole thing, TB himself. He publically insulted and started a witchhunt against Take, please explain to me how this is justified or the appropriate thing to do.
That is what happens when you get pestered by anonymous bullies, people are not robots and will start to get hurt and stressed out eventually.
The ¨community backlash¨ is what started all of this like it always does.
Can you stop treating TB like a saint? He started this shit with "fuck take" "fuck take he should stop trying to save face" Every fucking public message of him had only 1 purpose: hopefully the community will get mad at take
Or can you tell me 1 other reason for making these rants public? that is literally the start of a shitstorm but it backfired.
That is how I see it aswell. TB tried to start a withhunt with the backing of his mindless fanboys to take Take down. That is one of the most toxic actions I have ever seen a public figure of SC2 has ever done.
On August 17 2013 01:31 theBlues wrote: This community is amazingly toxic, if this blows up to the point Axiom closes we will have one less team in the scene. The scene is stagnating and this reddit mentality helps nothing. I see this over and over again, anonymous posters pestering a public figure of the community until they snap and start lashing out, seen this with incontrol, idra, tb and countless others before. Like highschool bullying of some sort. The sad thing is when the game starts losing more and more presence these trolls will jump ship to whatever game.
I hope TB and Genna have the strength to keep on trucking, the voice of the community has become the bane of the people trying to advance Starcraft.
You know who has been the most toxic during this whole thing, TB himself. He publically insulted and started a witchhunt against Take, please explain to me how this is justified or the appropriate thing to do.
The ¨community backlash¨ is what started all of this like it always does.
Bullshit. All of this was started because Genna made the chatlogs private, no one else is to blame for this public drama. The community/bullies/trolls or whoever did not demand for this to made public. They released this stuff to have the higher ground, and did it again after Take complained.
No, thats wrong. The backlash started when they pulled out of the team league and people got upset about that, claiming they were unprofessional. They explained they tried to work it out and the money for the travel wasn't there. People didn't accept that and kept complaining, saying they should have known Take wouldn't cover the whole cost. Then they released the chat logs.
On August 17 2013 01:31 theBlues wrote: This community is amazingly toxic, if this blows up to the point Axiom closes we will have one less team in the scene. The scene is stagnating and this reddit mentality helps nothing. I see this over and over again, anonymous posters pestering a public figure of the community until they snap and start lashing out, seen this with incontrol, idra, tb and countless others before. Like highschool bullying of some sort. The sad thing is when the game starts losing more and more presence these trolls will jump ship to whatever game.
I hope TB and Genna have the strength to keep on trucking, the voice of the community has become the bane of the people trying to advance Starcraft.
You know who has been the most toxic during this whole thing, TB himself. He publically insulted and started a witchhunt against Take, please explain to me how this is justified or the appropriate thing to do.
The ¨community backlash¨ is what started all of this like it always does.
Bullshit. All of this was started because Genna made the chatlogs private, no one else is to blame for this public drama. The community/bullies/trolls or whoever did not demand for this to made public. They released this stuff to have the higher ground, and did it again after Take complained.
No, thats wrong. The backlash started when they pulled out of the team league and people got upset about that, claiming they were unprofessional. They explained they tried to work it out and the money for the travel wasn't there. People didn't accept that and kept complaining, saying they should have known Take wouldn't cover the whole cost. Then they released the chat logs.
Could you please point me in the direction where this happened. I remember that it was mostly a small minority who was complaining. Especially on Reddit people were just sad to see that Axiom couldn't be there.
On August 17 2013 01:15 Azelja wrote: And people here really have the audacity to even wonder why guys like Tasteless, Day9, Artosis or who-have-you don't check TL (anymore) and why MLG (among many others) have been so sparse with the intel they give out.
Good grief, why is this still my browser's homepage yet?
Are you saying TB is responsible for Tasteless, Day9 and Artosis withdrawing? Otherwise I don't get your point, as he's the one posting the most toxic content in here, is he not?
Or maybe you're saying that the community constantly posts private conversations with Tasteless, Day9 and Artosis in public to make them look bad?
I'm not quite sure if you are serious or not... but oh well. What I am saying is that this community (I think given recent occurrences I should mention that obviously I'm not referring to the actually reasonable and genuinely nice people both here and the ones that go to offline tournaments to cheer) has gone so far downhill in it's (hurtful) flaming, trolling and drama-inducing bullshit that it can't even see the light of better days anymore yet still for some reason wonders why nobody likes it and many of the "community figures" are avoiding the forums.
I guess my point is this.
You generalize too much. The community encompasses a wide variety of people that all speak out in different fashions and on different subjects.
And the only reason for this particular drama-inducing bullshit is because of Genna releasing private conversations publicly without permission (twice) and TB pouring gasoline on the situation by publicly flaming Take and the community without reason. The community has zero blame in this.
On August 17 2013 01:22 {ToT}ColmA wrote: people should drop the "but xyz did good stuff in the past", when someone fucks up he fucks up and has to be accountable for it. (thats a general statement for all who are bad at comprehending )
"A good act does not wash out the bad, nor a bad act the good. Each should have its own reward." (George R. R. Martin)
To speak of a debacle would be an understatement. Still, I don't understand why TB didn't already hire someone to handle his PRs, as he's clearly incapable of being a reasonable adult. Every time there's drama he acts like an immature child while spewing toxic around like a hydra. He's a far from being a rational beeing as it gets in this situation, which makes it really difficult to take him seriously.
On August 17 2013 01:31 theBlues wrote: This community is amazingly toxic, if this blows up to the point Axiom closes we will have one less team in the scene. The scene is stagnating and this reddit mentality helps nothing. I see this over and over again, anonymous posters pestering a public figure of the community until they snap and start lashing out, seen this with incontrol, idra, tb and countless others before. Like highschool bullying of some sort. The sad thing is when the game starts losing more and more presence these trolls will jump ship to whatever game.
I hope TB and Genna have the strength to keep on trucking, the voice of the community has become the bane of the people trying to advance Starcraft.
People notice the tree that falls, not the growing forest. Most people here still highly appreciate what TB and Genna have done/are doing for sc. Nobody is being crucified etc (except maybe TB following his agressive statements).
Most people here recognize Genna's good intentions but also voice their opinion she has carried them out in wrong fashion. Many of us here agree Axiom is to 'blame' for a big part in this case. Yeah, they made a mistake boo hoo. Axiom is in the top 3 most popular teams in teh community, receives support and will still receive support from it.
TLDR: Many people are critical of how Axiom handled this situation, which doesn't equal a public witch-hunt. I for one strongly disapprove with the way they handled this situation. TB's reaction was way over the top. But I will still support him and what he does, and appreciate the contributions they make to sc as a whole.
Edit: since Martin quotes are popular these days: “We all need to be mocked from time to time, lest we take ourselves too seriously.” ― George R.R. Martin
On August 17 2013 01:31 theBlues wrote: This community is amazingly toxic, if this blows up to the point Axiom closes we will have one less team in the scene. The scene is stagnating and this reddit mentality helps nothing. I see this over and over again, anonymous posters pestering a public figure of the community until they snap and start lashing out, seen this with incontrol, idra, tb and countless others before. Like highschool bullying of some sort. The sad thing is when the game starts losing more and more presence these trolls will jump ship to whatever game.
I hope TB and Genna have the strength to keep on trucking, the voice of the community has become the bane of the people trying to advance Starcraft.
You know who has been the most toxic during this whole thing, TB himself. He publically insulted and started a witchhunt against Take, please explain to me how this is justified or the appropriate thing to do.
The ¨community backlash¨ is what started all of this like it always does.
Bullshit. All of this was started because Genna made the chatlogs private, no one else is to blame for this public drama. The community/bullies/trolls or whoever did not demand for this to made public. They released this stuff to have the higher ground, and did it again after Take complained.
No, thats wrong. The backlash started when they pulled out of the team league and people got upset about that, claiming they were unprofessional. They explained they tried to work it out and the money for the travel wasn't there. People didn't accept that and kept complaining, saying they should have known Take wouldn't cover the whole cost. Then they released the chat logs.
Could you please point me in the direction where this happened. I remember that it was mostly a small minority who was complaining. Especially on Reddit people were just sad to see that Axiom couldn't be there.
I can't do a post by post break down at work, but the news came out via twitter, with a response from Take about an hour later, all on August 15th(TL time, it was the 14th for me). The blog was released 8-9 hours after the news broke and people were still going on and on about it.
On August 17 2013 01:15 Azelja wrote: And people here really have the audacity to even wonder why guys like Tasteless, Day9, Artosis or who-have-you don't check TL (anymore) and why MLG (among many others) have been so sparse with the intel they give out.
Good grief, why is this still my browser's homepage yet?
And this is exactly how this whole shitstorm could have been prevented. Just not make anything public. I don't quite get, why it had to be made public in the first place ? Was it supposed to be a smear campaign towards Take ?
When Axiom started they stated they wanted to be as transparent as possible, of course this turned out to be a mistake sadly. Being transparent in anything business isn't a good idea.
You can be transparent if you want, but at least arrange it with all parties involved in your transparency.
There wasn't anything bad in what she released, so I dont see a problem. It mostly showed that both sides worked very hard to work something out. Really, I don't know why TakeTV is upset about it, because it really just shows that they both give a shit and it just didn't make sense for them to come.
It was explained several times already why it was bad what she released (Take paying for Liquid, Acer looking bad, maybe Liquid does not want that anyone knows that Take helps them out f.e.), i absolutely see why TakeTV is upset about it, and you should, too. The whole things was a minor problem, not even worth mentioning, just some mistakes that can happen...as long as it was private.
I'm not upset at all in any way. As I said in another thread, I am at work today preparing a motion to release another attorney's emails to the court to show he has been misleading the court and acting in bad faith. Although he never lies outright, he is a pain and likes to omit information he provides to the court and my attorneys are sick of it. It is considered unprofessional by some, but at the end of the day it gets what we want. Its mean, but we want him to knock it off and this is a slap in the face to get that done.
Business is a mean and people don't always get along. We are not one big happy SC2 family, but a small group of teams and events all trying to make a living.
see i am curious, i already read your posts in the other thread and i agree that in business you sometimes need to cut someone loose or end a businessrelation for (primarily financial) gains.
But looking at this situation, there was no gain for Axiom, not participating in future Take events hurts them, they do not get money out of this either, the publicity is also not positive, if you take away simple exposure (which TB should have enough of) i cannot fathom any viable reason for Axiom / Genna / TB to worsen their image and their relations with Take at all, its simply not smart for their little venture, thus unprofessional imo.
On August 17 2013 01:15 Azelja wrote: And people here really have the audacity to even wonder why guys like Tasteless, Day9, Artosis or who-have-you don't check TL (anymore) and why MLG (among many others) have been so sparse with the intel they give out.
Good grief, why is this still my browser's homepage yet?
And this is exactly how this whole shitstorm could have been prevented. Just not make anything public. I don't quite get, why it had to be made public in the first place ? Was it supposed to be a smear campaign towards Take ?
When Axiom started they stated they wanted to be as transparent as possible, of course this turned out to be a mistake sadly. Being transparent in anything business isn't a good idea.
You can be transparent if you want, but at least arrange it with all parties involved in your transparency.
There wasn't anything bad in what she released, so I dont see a problem. It mostly showed that both sides worked very hard to work something out. Really, I don't know why TakeTV is upset about it, because it really just shows that they both give a shit and it just didn't make sense for them to come.
It was explained several times already why it was bad what she released (Take paying for Liquid, Acer looking bad, maybe Liquid does not want that anyone knows that Take helps them out f.e.), i absolutely see why TakeTV is upset about it, and you should, too. The whole things was a minor problem, not even worth mentioning, just some mistakes that can happen...as long as it was private.
I'm not upset at all in any way. As I said in another thread, I am at work today preparing a motion to release another attorney's emails to the court to show he has been misleading the court and acting in bad faith. Although he never lies outright, he is a pain and likes to omit information he provides to the court and my attorneys are sick of it. It is considered unprofessional by some, but at the end of the day it gets what we want. Its mean, but we want him to knock it off and this is a slap in the face to get that done.
Business is a mean and people don't always get along. We are not one big happy SC2 family, but a small group of teams and events all trying to make a living.
see i am curious, i already read your posts in the other thread and i agree that in business you sometimes need to cut someone loose or end a businessrelation for (primarily financial) gains.
But looking at this situation, there was no gain for Axiom, not participating in future Take events hurts them, they do not get money out of this either, the publicity is also not positive, if you take away simple exposure (which TB should have enough of) i cannot fathom any viable reason for Axiom / Genna / TB to worsen their image and their relations with Take at all, its simply not smart for their little venture, thus unprofessional imo.
It was a little unprofessional, but that doesn't make it bad outright or anything people should be upset about. TB does not like Take and the world will continue spinning even though that it true. He isn't asking other people to hate Take TV and we shouldn't do that. This isn't highschool and two people not liking eachother does not mean that we need to pick a side or do anything of the sort. He is just being honest about his relationship with the group and we can take that into account in the future.
On August 17 2013 01:31 theBlues wrote: This community is amazingly toxic, if this blows up to the point Axiom closes we will have one less team in the scene. The scene is stagnating and this reddit mentality helps nothing. I see this over and over again, anonymous posters pestering a public figure of the community until they snap and start lashing out, seen this with incontrol, idra, tb and countless others before. Like highschool bullying of some sort. The sad thing is when the game starts losing more and more presence these trolls will jump ship to whatever game.
I hope TB and Genna have the strength to keep on trucking, the voice of the community has become the bane of the people trying to advance Starcraft.
You know who has been the most toxic during this whole thing, TB himself. He publically insulted and started a witchhunt against Take, please explain to me how this is justified or the appropriate thing to do.
The ¨community backlash¨ is what started all of this like it always does.
Bullshit. All of this was started because Genna made the chatlogs private, no one else is to blame for this public drama. The community/bullies/trolls or whoever did not demand for this to made public. They released this stuff to have the higher ground, and did it again after Take complained.
No, thats wrong. The backlash started when they pulled out of the team league and people got upset about that, claiming they were unprofessional. They explained they tried to work it out and the money for the travel wasn't there. People didn't accept that and kept complaining, saying they should have known Take wouldn't cover the whole cost. Then they released the chat logs.
This is whats going to taint everything from now on. Only because some people and it really is some people, not even a hounded wanted this. Literally everyone else didn't give a fuck, they were disappointed but hey lets try to save face (as mighty TB put it) instead and listen to these 100people that seem to give a lot of fucks.
- But hey don't we risk hurting SC2 eSports by posting it? Could there be a backlash because they'll read it and don't side with us?
HEY LETS POST IT ANYWAY AND BLAME IT ON OTHERS INSTEAD!
Seriously this whole fucking situation should now with everything in hand never have been published. Nothing good could have come from this!
On August 17 2013 01:15 Azelja wrote: And people here really have the audacity to even wonder why guys like Tasteless, Day9, Artosis or who-have-you don't check TL (anymore) and why MLG (among many others) have been so sparse with the intel they give out.
Good grief, why is this still my browser's homepage yet?
And this is exactly how this whole shitstorm could have been prevented. Just not make anything public. I don't quite get, why it had to be made public in the first place ? Was it supposed to be a smear campaign towards Take ?
When Axiom started they stated they wanted to be as transparent as possible, of course this turned out to be a mistake sadly. Being transparent in anything business isn't a good idea.
You can be transparent if you want, but at least arrange it with all parties involved in your transparency.
There wasn't anything bad in what she released, so I dont see a problem. It mostly showed that both sides worked very hard to work something out. Really, I don't know why TakeTV is upset about it, because it really just shows that they both give a shit and it just didn't make sense for them to come.
It was explained several times already why it was bad what she released (Take paying for Liquid, Acer looking bad, maybe Liquid does not want that anyone knows that Take helps them out f.e.), i absolutely see why TakeTV is upset about it, and you should, too. The whole things was a minor problem, not even worth mentioning, just some mistakes that can happen...as long as it was private.
I'm not upset at all in any way. As I said in another thread, I am at work today preparing a motion to release another attorney's emails to the court to show he has been misleading the court and acting in bad faith. Although he never lies outright, he is a pain and likes to omit information he provides to the court and my attorneys are sick of it. It is considered unprofessional by some, but at the end of the day it gets what we want. Its mean, but we want him to knock it off and this is a slap in the face to get that done.
Business is a mean and people don't always get along. We are not one big happy SC2 family, but a small group of teams and events all trying to make a living.
see i am curious, i already read your posts in the other thread and i agree that in business you sometimes need to cut someone loose or end a businessrelation for (primarily financial) gains.
But looking at this situation, there was no gain for Axiom, not participating in future Take events hurts them, they do not get money out of this either, the publicity is also not positive, if you take away simple exposure (which TB should have enough of) i cannot fathom any viable reason for Axiom / Genna / TB to worsen their image and their relations with Take at all, its simply not smart for their little venture, thus unprofessional imo.
It was a little unprofessional, but that doesn't make it bad outright or anything people should be upset about. TB does not like Take and the world will continue spinning even though that it true. He isn't asking other people to hate Take TV and we shouldn't do that. This isn't highschool and two people not liking eachother does not mean that we need to pick a side or do anything of the sort. He is just being honest about his relationship with the group and we can take that into account in the future.
There would be no reason what so ever to post private conversations if Axiom/Genna didn't specifically want people to take sides. Same with TB writing Fuck TaKe on twitter. It's all about throwing shit at people, hoping that other people will find them stinky afterwards.
On August 17 2013 01:15 Azelja wrote: And people here really have the audacity to even wonder why guys like Tasteless, Day9, Artosis or who-have-you don't check TL (anymore) and why MLG (among many others) have been so sparse with the intel they give out.
Good grief, why is this still my browser's homepage yet?
And this is exactly how this whole shitstorm could have been prevented. Just not make anything public. I don't quite get, why it had to be made public in the first place ? Was it supposed to be a smear campaign towards Take ?
When Axiom started they stated they wanted to be as transparent as possible, of course this turned out to be a mistake sadly. Being transparent in anything business isn't a good idea.
You can be transparent if you want, but at least arrange it with all parties involved in your transparency.
There wasn't anything bad in what she released, so I dont see a problem. It mostly showed that both sides worked very hard to work something out. Really, I don't know why TakeTV is upset about it, because it really just shows that they both give a shit and it just didn't make sense for them to come.
It was explained several times already why it was bad what she released (Take paying for Liquid, Acer looking bad, maybe Liquid does not want that anyone knows that Take helps them out f.e.), i absolutely see why TakeTV is upset about it, and you should, too. The whole things was a minor problem, not even worth mentioning, just some mistakes that can happen...as long as it was private.
I'm not upset at all in any way. As I said in another thread, I am at work today preparing a motion to release another attorney's emails to the court to show he has been misleading the court and acting in bad faith. Although he never lies outright, he is a pain and likes to omit information he provides to the court and my attorneys are sick of it. It is considered unprofessional by some, but at the end of the day it gets what we want. Its mean, but we want him to knock it off and this is a slap in the face to get that done.
Business is a mean and people don't always get along. We are not one big happy SC2 family, but a small group of teams and events all trying to make a living.
see i am curious, i already read your posts in the other thread and i agree that in business you sometimes need to cut someone loose or end a businessrelation for (primarily financial) gains.
But looking at this situation, there was no gain for Axiom, not participating in future Take events hurts them, they do not get money out of this either, the publicity is also not positive, if you take away simple exposure (which TB should have enough of) i cannot fathom any viable reason for Axiom / Genna / TB to worsen their image and their relations with Take at all, its simply not smart for their little venture, thus unprofessional imo.
It was a little unprofessional, but that doesn't make it bad outright or anything people should be upset about. TB does not like Take and the world will continue spinning even though that it true. He isn't asking other people to hate Take TV and we shouldn't do that. This isn't highschool and two people not liking eachother does not mean that we need to pick a side or do anything of the sort. He is just being honest about his relationship with the group and we can take that into account in the future.
I think by publicly stating you hate x and wont particpate in X you are hoping others will follow your lead. Otherwise you would simply do it and not announce it.
That was not a good move in any way, but I don't really expect rational responses from people when their families are involved. As someone who is in the legal field, professionalism goes out the door when family becomes involved. Its likely why they hired a manager, to add a bit of buffer between TB and the events.
On August 17 2013 01:25 NovemberstOrm wrote: [quote] When Axiom started they stated they wanted to be as transparent as possible, of course this turned out to be a mistake sadly. Being transparent in anything business isn't a good idea.
You can be transparent if you want, but at least arrange it with all parties involved in your transparency.
There wasn't anything bad in what she released, so I dont see a problem. It mostly showed that both sides worked very hard to work something out. Really, I don't know why TakeTV is upset about it, because it really just shows that they both give a shit and it just didn't make sense for them to come.
It was explained several times already why it was bad what she released (Take paying for Liquid, Acer looking bad, maybe Liquid does not want that anyone knows that Take helps them out f.e.), i absolutely see why TakeTV is upset about it, and you should, too. The whole things was a minor problem, not even worth mentioning, just some mistakes that can happen...as long as it was private.
I'm not upset at all in any way. As I said in another thread, I am at work today preparing a motion to release another attorney's emails to the court to show he has been misleading the court and acting in bad faith. Although he never lies outright, he is a pain and likes to omit information he provides to the court and my attorneys are sick of it. It is considered unprofessional by some, but at the end of the day it gets what we want. Its mean, but we want him to knock it off and this is a slap in the face to get that done.
Business is a mean and people don't always get along. We are not one big happy SC2 family, but a small group of teams and events all trying to make a living.
see i am curious, i already read your posts in the other thread and i agree that in business you sometimes need to cut someone loose or end a businessrelation for (primarily financial) gains.
But looking at this situation, there was no gain for Axiom, not participating in future Take events hurts them, they do not get money out of this either, the publicity is also not positive, if you take away simple exposure (which TB should have enough of) i cannot fathom any viable reason for Axiom / Genna / TB to worsen their image and their relations with Take at all, its simply not smart for their little venture, thus unprofessional imo.
It was a little unprofessional, but that doesn't make it bad outright or anything people should be upset about. TB does not like Take and the world will continue spinning even though that it true. He isn't asking other people to hate Take TV and we shouldn't do that. This isn't highschool and two people not liking eachother does not mean that we need to pick a side or do anything of the sort. He is just being honest about his relationship with the group and we can take that into account in the future.
I think by publicly stating you hate x and wont particpate in X you are hoping others will follow your lead. Otherwise you would simply do it and not announce it.
That was not a good move in any way, but I don't really expect rational responses from people when their families are involved. As someone who is in the legal field, professionalism goes out the door when family becomes involved. Its likely why they hired a manager, to add a bit of buffer between TB and the events.
I guess my main issues is with why the family is involved. I find it hard to feel sorry for someone who created the mess.
Well I don't think they were going to become un-married. They are a husband and wife team, my parents are the same way. My father lights people up when they give my mother shit and the same thing goes for me.
On August 17 2013 02:35 Turboteckel wrote: In theory we could also leave this mess for what it is and focus on the brighter and more positive things in our lives.
On August 17 2013 01:42 Plansix wrote: No, thats wrong. The backlash started when they pulled out of the team league and people got upset about that, claiming they were unprofessional. They explained they tried to work it out and the money for the travel wasn't there. People didn't accept that and kept complaining, saying they should have known Take wouldn't cover the whole cost. Then they released the chat logs.
For someone as moderate has you, you are sticking your neck out a lot. There isn't a single ounce of rationality in this story since the announcement of Axiom leaving its place to Millenium. Blame can be thrown left and right according to personal alignment but everyone loses in the end.
On August 17 2013 01:15 Azelja wrote: And people here really have the audacity to even wonder why guys like Tasteless, Day9, Artosis or who-have-you don't check TL (anymore) and why MLG (among many others) have been so sparse with the intel they give out.
Good grief, why is this still my browser's homepage yet?
Are you saying TB is responsible for Tasteless, Day9 and Artosis withdrawing? Otherwise I don't get your point, as he's the one posting the most toxic content in here, is he not?
Or maybe you're saying that the community constantly posts private conversations with Tasteless, Day9 and Artosis in public without asking for permission?
He's saying the community is shit and it's not suprising that other big personalities don't want to wallow in it.
On August 17 2013 01:42 Plansix wrote: No, thats wrong. The backlash started when they pulled out of the team league and people got upset about that, claiming they were unprofessional. They explained they tried to work it out and the money for the travel wasn't there. People didn't accept that and kept complaining, saying they should have known Take wouldn't cover the whole cost. Then they released the chat logs.
For someone as moderate has you, you are sticking your neck out a lot. There isn't a single ounce of rationality in this story since the announcement of Axiom leaving its place to Millenium. Blame can be thrown left and right according to personal alignment but everyone loses in the end.
I like watching SC2, and I dislike people freaking out over who will attend what because plane tickets cost more than they thought. At the end of the day, these folks are putting more money on the line that I am and I am willing to type a few nice things about them in return.
Time to tone it down for all parties involved. Take a deep breath... and relax. It might be bad. But probably not as bad as you were about to say it was.
On August 17 2013 02:35 Turboteckel wrote: In theory we could also leave this mess for what it is and focus on the brighter and more positive things in our lives.
Hey this is the first time i gonna put a statement her to the whole situation after the statements.
I don t get why this had to happen and Genna now gonna leave it but she might be even more emotional than me but then i dont actually understand why she reacted like this - everyone is different but here my story.
First of all i wanna appologize that i reacted emotional! This is not correct and nothing i can take back.
And now you get my 100% honest thought about the situation and this probably even pushed her to stop?
I really didnt wanna say to much about the whole situation cause i think it just hurts both sites and makes no sense at all i am always the guy who tries to find a solution together in every single way in privat at work family whatever.
So what do i do? I try to talk to people to solve problems if they happen which can always happen sometimes i fuck up sometimes someone else or whoever but in the end for me its just important to find a solution with everyone TOGETHER!
For myself i would never post privat chats which i had with someone- if its about privat stuff like friends/Girlfriend whatever even if i am angry or businessstuff like in this case cause this can hurt everyone not only one person and for myself you hurt my privacy which is very important to me.
A few things i wanna ADD. i kept talking to Genna about a statement about Axiom not attending she did saturday, sunday, monday, tuesday and i think she posted it wednesday? She never responded just saturday once she is in a broadcast or so and will come back to me later. i reminded her 5 times or more on different days and she even talked to other people that she got my messages but never wanted to answer me - and in the end she said cause of the timezones we missed each other!??! I dont know but this is pretty lame. I really hate it that i have to do a statement like this and its also kinda emotional cause all this means alot to me i have one aim doing a good job make alot of people happy and enjoy what i do but no its me getting shit because i tried to calm down for the whole situation and dont bring up any bad words about anyone cause everyone does mistakes from time to time and she publishes every single word we discussed in private about this thing - Is this what we call professional? At least i dont see that.
I will still not publish stuff she said cause even if i am angry i will just describe a little bit...
In the whole season she almost never replied to emails once she didnt answer 11 days or so? on 10 mails...as you probably realized we even had to do replaycasts cause axiom didnt play thier matches - Genna (when she answered) mentioned they have stuff to do but with the day we talked to Crank instead of her it worked perfectly fine and even the players thought they have to wait and dont have to play games even when we were pushing it alot and reminded her etc..
Its really frustrating to me tbh cause what i wanted from the start was just a statement from both sites that the situation was fucked up abit and both sites did some mistakes and no one would ever be angry so why Genna didn you try to get something solved together and now act like this? I even told you before saturday that if you do a statement please lets do it together and find the best possible way for everyone. THE MOST IMPORTANT THING!!! But lets come back to why this all started - Axiom expected us to pay 100% of the trip which we never said/Promised or even mentioned we with a single word. We cant promise stuff like this if we dont have the ressources for it. So we didnt.
We sent an email which said we have 20k pricemoney and an offline finale and they agreed to play it via mail. After they played the last playday they realize we dont pay the whole trip cause we give them a reminder that we offer 1500 and hotels and then this happens? This is very sad honestly.
How would you ever expect we can pay 4 teams fulltrips from korea and wouldnt even mention it to the teams? I think the only organizazion who can provide it is Blizzard at the moment?
One thing which was just meant as a help for the teams was the support we give and i know that the costs are very high for all teams thats why i wanted to have this support and kept talking to sponsors about it and for Season 2 we even want to raise it that was sure from the beginning but we never knew if the league will work out it was a nice try. But well our mistake was to not communicate it. We wanted and thought the mail was sent to everyone at Cebit in March but it wasn t. I am sorry about that to all teams!
But still i think if i dont communicate any help you won t expect any support at all cause you dont go to a Dreamhack or HomeStorycup and expect we pay all trips and not even tell you.
I really love what i do and i do it every day 7 days 80hours+ a week almost all over the year and only take very small breaks from esport to get some privat time and vacation etc. Cause i love esport and i appreciate it soo much that i can have a job in this business but honestly this really hurts me my motivation my heart and i am honestly sad really sad that this has to happen.
Right now i have almost all emotions in me but also i am angry about what Genna does and how she handled it.now i also wrote what i think she did wrong but if i wouldnt do it i could not live with what she did and on the same moment feel okay.
@Genna - If you finally wanna talk for the first time about the statement and how everything went seriously i am still up for it even if so much shit flew around.
Since she posted so much she also posted that i pay costs for Liquid from my own privat wallet cause the situation was not perfect and i wanted to find a solution and LIQUID kept talking to me and really wanted to find a solution. One more thing i even offered Genna that i would think about also helping them also from my own money to bring them here - She never reacted on that and tried to find a conversation about this and in the very end after she almost never replied i said okay well we cant pay it cause i already felt bad that i offer solutions and try to find options but the other site seems like they not even care.
I want to appologize to the whole community for what i did wrong and the whole situation i honestly think no one is perfect expecially me and everyone does some mistakes but this makes me look so bad cause someone probably even wanted this happen...and didnt even try to fix stuff together.
This was MY honest statement which could even have more stuff in it - Its what I think and no one else.
I ve seen comments about NOW i won t watch TaKeTV anymore which really hurted me alot tbh but i think i explained my situation and what happend if people still say okay TaKe is an Idiot i respect it and i lost viewers cause this is what i think and did cause its me.
On August 17 2013 01:15 Azelja wrote: And people here really have the audacity to even wonder why guys like Tasteless, Day9, Artosis or who-have-you don't check TL (anymore) and why MLG (among many others) have been so sparse with the intel they give out.
Good grief, why is this still my browser's homepage yet?
Are you saying TB is responsible for Tasteless, Day9 and Artosis withdrawing? Otherwise I don't get your point, as he's the one posting the most toxic content in here, is he not?
Or maybe you're saying that the community constantly posts private conversations with Tasteless, Day9 and Artosis in public without asking for permission?
He's saying the community is shit and it's not suprising that other big personalities don't want to wallow in it.
So TB represents 'the community' now or how otherwise could one possibly claim any relevance between that and this piece of drama? You can single out a specific subset of people as 'the community' to be able to generalize it to fit any given argument at any given point. It's pointless and childish. People just need to learn to accept things at face value. Some people are dicks, some are not, and some you had no clue even existed in the first place.
Focusing on negatives and forever proclaiming that the community is shit is a self-fulfilling prophecy. It's helping make it shit by doing exactly that. If you want to make it more friendly you can actually spread positive thoughts instead of 'you're all worthless pieces of shit for saying that he's a worthless piece of shit'.
On August 17 2013 00:00 Chon231 wrote: I am truly disappointed that TB and Genna are acting like two high school children. TB is trying to "defend" Genna? Maybe she shouldn't have done what she did. She made her bed, let her sleep in it. A terrible attitude from both of you and shitty business practices by posting conversations with a BUSINESS PARTNER. I am all for "lifting the veil" of eSports but not like this... I want some clarity on which organizations are not paying winners and what teams are doing shady shit like KespA with Flash. But this is just fucking sad. Dennis had every right to not only be pissed about you posting it but should be pissed about your unprofessional conduct leading up to this point. You two need to step back, look at the situation, and grow up.
Also, I know TB is going to eventually come out and make some sort of public statement where he uses big words and mild intellect to sound smart but remember he is acting like a damn child and is burning bridges he should have never touched.
Meh, rant over go TL!
Just a point of advice. Dont know if you are married or what. But you should defend your wife. You need to defend your wife. You have to defend your wife. You can argue about how he defended, but never about if he should.
Right or wrong, I will defend my wife to the death and vice versa. Loyalty is a nice virtue to possess.
Well, they all seem like nice people who got insecure, defensive and angry and made some mistakes. I hope it hasn't cost SC2 and Esports too much. The whole thing has put me right off transparency :p
On August 17 2013 00:24 TotalBiscuit wrote: I'm very curious to know why it's ok for Take to be emotional but it's not ok for Genna or myself to do the same. I guess the double standards shouldn't be surprising by now though.
why don't you make another butthurt song on youtube if it makes you feel better ya big cry baby
On August 16 2013 12:47 geokilla wrote: Axiom is screwed. Slayers is dead. Again. Genna is avoiding the problem instead of facing it.
And can you blame her after what she has been through? Genna is a human just like me or you. Best of luck Genna! You're a lovely person and all the best!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Just going to add some additional info here. Several reasons have prevented us from participating in the offline portion of ATC.
•After WCS NA, we felt that CranK needed to focus on recovering from his injury.
•There is not much time left to prepare for DreamHack Bucharest and we want to be in top condition. (Also in the event we make it to the SC2L offline portion, we wanted to be prepared for that as well.)
•We were not directly made aware that teams would only receive $1500 for the entire team to travel from Korea to Germany until flights were ridiculously overpriced. ($1500 per team is comped by ATC, not per person)
While our team is not in any kind of financial distress (if it were, I have my primary accounts and 401K to dip into) it is my goal as owner of Axiom to break even as much as possible and not to grossly exceed our income from sponsorship. It's not always pleasant to have to be fiscally responsible, but there are other factors at work here which made my decision to keep the team at home easier.
Thank you all for your understanding in this matter. We have some wonderful sponsors and fans who expected to see us compete at this event and we are very sorry to have to let everyone down by forfeiting our position in ATC. We are sure that ATC will announce our replacement shortly, so please support them and enjoy the finals regardless of our absence."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hey everyone in the esportscene as you have seen Axiom did a post that they won`t be able to participate in the Acer TeamStoryCup powered by Intel which makes me very sad! I have seen some bad feedback from the community which gives me a very bad feeling cause Axiom same as us tried to figure out all options if they can make it and do not have to cancel thier participation.
We kept talking for along time already and also informed Millenium right after we knew that it _might_ happen that Axiom won t be able to attend. I wanna thank Axiom for keep talking to us and trying to find a solution. So as you can see Millenium will be the replacement in this case - Stuff like this can happen and is very sad for the team itself cause they fought for this place.
I hope to see Axiom back in action if there is a next season and they can do it once again to qualify for the Finals! I hope even with this bad news you are looking forward to the ATC Finale as i do which will be already saturday and i also wanna let you guys know that we try to work on this league to let stuff like this not happen again and try to have even a better communication to the teams but don t forget esport is a very very busy business and all of the people actually working here invest more time than most "normal" people would ever do.
My view on this is frankly pragmatic. Take and ATC are not suffering in any way. Millenium was confirmed as our replacement some time ago in private, which has been announced today. The roster has not suffered and the tournament will happen as normal, just like any other tournament that has a cancellation and has to find substitutes. Millenium are popular and will no doubt bring in the French crowd that otherwise might not have watched the event, balancing out the lost numbers from Axiom players not participating. The net cost to Take and ATC is zero, who are still paying out the same regardless, they are just paying it out to a different team. The tournament will go ahead as planned with a roster change, there is no disruption to the event.
On Axioms side, we have provided the following. 14 weeks of competition at unholy hours of the night for our players with no prize money. Our players have essentially worked hard for something they will no longer receive. Our sponsors will not receive exposure in the finals as we had hoped, so they are losing out. The team in general suffers, the tournament does not. ATC also received many hours of free casting from myself and the sponsors benefited from that significantly, with views 3-5x higher on average than the other English streams and an additional 20-30,000 views per series from VoDs hosted on the TotalBiscuit Starcraft Youtube channel, giving exceptional sponsor ROI Acer and Intel that would otherwise not have existed. Teams also received sponsor ROI due to use of the virtual jersey in all matches, software we developed specifically to help everyone.
So, after all that, my opinion of this is that the backlash on Axiom is unwarranted and makes little logical sense, when Axiom are the ones who put a lot into this tournament and are suffering due to a combination of unforeseen and unfortunate circumstances. If anything I would have hoped for support from the community in a difficult time for the team, but for the most part it seems that will not be happening. As always, we will endure that and push on regardless.
Then this would have passed over and been a thread filled with, Well that sucks at least mill going, and Crap wanted to see Axiom, and been over. Instead TB decided to start insulting people in the community to get some face time. Then Genna, I'm assuming thinking if people saw what she did would be more understanding posts what she did. After people including Take were offended instead of agreeing. Again instead of being calm and professional TB used his regular approach of attacking. Which cause another crap storm. Then genna quit, AND AGAIN instead of being calm or professional, even though he claimed he was going to, heads right bac into attacking people on the forums and on twitter.
This could have been a complete non issue. And the quotes I used are what people actaully said, even the one from TB. Sadly he mixed in 50 jerk posts, and cause a raging forest fire from a small camp fire. Don't feel sorry for TB he created this. Feel bad for all the others pulled into the mess. Including his wife, who instead of protecting he is making a target. Its akin to he saw his wife in a room with a bear, the bear was sleeping so he decides screw this bear I'm gonna start poking it repeadly with a stick. Not shockingly bear wakes up mad. But I digress.
If some one collected all the posts this could be a perfect case study on what not to do and then you could show how professonal organizations handle MUCH MUCH bigger issues then axiom pulling out of the live finals.
Heck they could have just said "Sorry we can't make it guys we feel awful, wish we coudl be there but with Miya retiring and Cranks health we just can't. Glad millinum is stepping up hope its a great tournment. We arn't going anywhere and are going to come back stronger. Thanks for all your support sorry to disapoint in this case, we will be back!"
Great points. Agree completely, it's not necessary, and it's all just a bit sad for everyone involved. I guess though that you need to remember that everyone involved is a person and can be emotionally affected by stuff.
It's a new industry, it doesn't have the benefit of having well worn, streamlined paths and structures ensuring that the right people are in the right positions, and the right things get said at the right time.
As bystanders I think we need to realize this, and not expect perfection from everyone, all the time.
Personally I'm all for giving everyone the benefit of the doubt. So there are warts, so what? We're all people here, enjoy the game and move on.
We need Dr. Phil in here to have all parties sit down and hug it out! I wonder if this has hit the korean forums yet and will jessica chime in? She was quite critical of genna/tb on twitter when axiom was formed. Having her say something would just be the icing on this drama filled cake, lol!
Massive overreaction in my eyes. "I hope that by law this is something you can get punished for" is hardly "threatening legal action". Especially when, as is widely known, Dennis' grasp of the English language is far from perfect.
Now I completely understand that a minor misunderstanding like this can be the straw that breaks the camels back, especially when someones health is compromised. So all in all I think this might be for the best, Genna can get some well deserved rest and or help. Good luck to everyone involved.
Well that's unfortunate. I always liked how Intricacy handled things. Don't agree with publishing chat-logs without asking though, I'd be pissed about that too even if it was nothing negative (although talking about legal action was a bit over the top).
Too bad it came to this seeing as this whole thing seems to be mostly a misunderstanding/miscommunication on both sides (even if the stepping down was due to other factors as well).
GL HF yourself, and hopefully it will be less stressful now, not having to deal with daily team affairs on top of all the rest.
In Germany you have to inform your chat partner your messenger creates log files. Also privacy and privacy protection is a much more important thing to the German people than anywhere else in the world, I guess. It's one of the most important things though. You are not allowed to share your private conversations with someone else without letting the other party know.
Well - I am pumped for the ATC finals. It's going to be awesome!
This has happened to StarLadder in dota2 like 3 seasons in a row and nobody quits, gets in forum wars, posts private emails or makes countless posts and threads about it. Starladder just doesn't invite the teams that fail to show-up to the lan finals next year and everyone goes about their business.
This whole situation and the reactions from everyone (people directly involved and the community) is why SC2 is silly. I think the Beiber community has less mindless drama than SC2 and I'd wager it's mostly 12-15 year old girls.
To be completely honest, I am disgusted by Genna's behaviour.
The whole Axiom dropping out of the ATC should have simply been a statement from Axiom saying something like:
"We incorrectly assumed that travelling costs would be $1500 per person instead of per team, we should have had further inquiries into the travelling finances but we mistakenly didn't and because of this we are forced to withdraw from the tournament due to budget concerns. We apologise to fans and the organisers of the event but we hope you all understand our situation."
Instead, we now get a thread by Genna taking subtle stabs at TaKe and what was clearly a communication error with what TaKe said because he isn't the greatest at English. I am quite sure what TaKe meant was "what you did was wrong and you can get in trouble for it", it wasn't a legal threat. But just to tarnish his reputation she decided to include it in this thread. Congratulations on making TaKe look bad, you're an incredible person.
I also love how this whole parting with Axiom blogpost is a "look how great I was for my team, I am so fucking amazing! Axiom is a great team and now TaKe just ruined it" Or at least, that is what I inferred from reading it several times over.
As much as I like the Axiom team in terms of their player roster, I can not like their (former) management for pulling crap like this.
Jesus, the childish displays in the SC2 scene are just staggering. I typically only watch the tournaments, day9, etc, but it seems like every time I poke my head into the forum ("Oh, I wonder what type of new strategy guides there are") there is always a shitstorm.
Bluntly, I believe the reason SC2 isn't ever going to become really huge is because any reputable business person wants to stay as far away from this fucking nightmare as possible. There is little money to be made (partly because businesses are probably too spooked to invest), and what little money there is is extremely risky to reach for, because you have to deal with God knows what kind of PR issues--the antics that are the daily reality in this scene would get you fired immediately in any other industry. This scene lacks respectability.
I wonder what would happen if teams were to hire professional, trained managers and PR people to clean up the scene. Yeah, you would lose the "nerd with a dream starts his own cast/stream/team" element, but I think that would be a small price to pay if the daily landmines planted for businesses to avoid were cleared out and they could invest without fear that some caster or player receiving their funds is going to explode into some extreme diatribe that paints that company in a bad light.
So after reading the entire thread and listening to TB's soundcloud the one thing that boggles me the most, is why on earth Genna decided to announce Axioms withdrawal from ATC and her own departure from Axiom. If the problems caused by misunderstandings between Genna and Take was indeed merely the last straw, these two seperate matters has nothing to do with one another. Imagine how much bullshit that could have been avoided if Axioms withdrawal from ATC had been announced and explained by a spokesperson from Axiom and not Genna herself, and if Gennas retirement had been announced next week in a seperate thread.
Of course nothing is easier than being a wise guy after the dust has settled, but i really hope that people is going to learn from this matter. Getting emotionally involved in this case was quite possibly the most stupid thing that Genna and TB could have done. Hopefully this will set an example for future disputes.
Also i think that people should avoid picking a side in this matter. Obviously this has already happened and numerous people have already proclaimed that they won't follow TB anymore or watch ATC, but honestly people - grow a pair. Nobody is going to benefit from people picking sides in a personal matter that is most likely caused by cultural differences, regarding publishing private conversations.
Wow, I thought that Acer handled the issue well and that Genna was doing them a service showing all the ways ATC tried to help, but now that Take is taking about legal action I'm pretty disappointed. Take and Acer have lost my viewership
I work in the corporate world. And I think what some of the Starcraft personalities lack is true accountability for professionalism.
It's fine for e-sports to toe the line and be a little bit 'off-color' because, lets face it, that's what the typical e-sport demographic does anyway. But this is just embarrassing. I see all these personalities that are clearly very intelligent, dedicated, and so many other great things but they are immature because they allow emotions to dictate actions.
I have some anger management issues, and there are some fucking dumb people I work with on a daily basis that I cannot stand but if I were to send a petty e-mail to them I would surely be written up and potentially fired for insubordination and un-professionalism or whatever else they decided to call it. So what do I do when I just cannot take it? I stand up and walk away for 10-15 minutes. Then I come back and I sit down and I ask myself what do I have to do RIGHT NOW to accomplish whatever my ultimate goal. If I need something from someone, I will send a very direct specific e-mail, no need to add any extra comments because that's not going to get things done faster or better. This is just silly. This wouldn't be allowed at most large corporations. I am not saying we need to go corporate, just that they know how to be productive. Lets all grow up please, acting like brats does not get anyone anywhere :-)
IMHO posting private conversation is wrong by itself. But doing shit behind others' backs, and acting like "I'm the coolest one" on the surface is even worse.
After watching state of the game with Genna, I have grown up a big respect to that lady. And she had already mentioned bullshit behind WCS and SC2 scene during that episode!
If we want SC2 to grow - we need more transparent folks like Genna, and we do need to get our shit together, no matter who's right in this dispute (imho everyone loses here).
This is so bs, now take looks bad for doing nothing wrong just because a incompetent person is telling uninformed and wrong stuff. She should definitely make a new statement where she apologizes for this unnecessary drama instead of just saying she was uninformed because in the comments i can still see people who actually think she did everything right just because they dont bother actually reading up on the topic...
Mistakes were both on both sides with regards to the ATC drama. Having said that, posting private chat logs in public is the very definition of unprofessional. I don't see how it can be inferred that Take was threatening legal action - even a douche phrase like 'I hope that's legally punishable' doesn't amount to a 'threat'.
Just to be clear: do usually offline team leagues provide travel expenses or not?
To me, it's really weird that you organize a team league but teams have to fly all the team on their own. You better take out some of the prizemoney to finance this IMO.
I'm just gonna start with the sad then fade to the good here;
To be honest, after reading the previous blog with all the convercations as a whole and this blog, I can see why Dennis is upset. Even more so, you would think it's common sense to ask peoples permissions when posting private convercations in a public blog read by thousands. This one, even containing strong implications of two buisnessparts relations and budgets.
Then you follow this whole ordeal by making statements such as "Anyway, I guess TIL that if people post chat logs even in an attempt to make you look good in a bad situation, it shouldn't be done and I should just be sued and/or arrested. " you come off as a bit of a childish attitude, making things so incredibly black\white. Take (Dennis) probably said what he said in a burst of the moment, while you've had plenty of time to formulate and write this blog. I would expect a person that have been a manager of one of the greatest teams I've seen to rise from scratch to be more level headed here and see through his rage and let it go, instead of playing it off in a blog-note to get sarcasm karma.
On August 16 2013 12:51 Tobblish wrote: Sad that it had to go this way, I supported your way of doing it but doing it without asking the parties included is just bound to fuck some people over.
Posting yet another conversation just come off childish even if you have nothing to lose.
Edit: Tbh I'm disappointed that you stepped down because of this little drama. Stand STRONG instead!!
This post pretty much summed up my immediate reaction and alltho I did love what you did for the players, the team as a whole and esports in general, I wish you would have stood tall through the incoming (shit)storm and plowed through it, instead of pulling yourself out. John allready has so many project running, how is he supposed to pull though with this without your support, I do not know, but I will continue to support Axiom, because I do love the team!
all this is just so... unnecessary. i really hope that tb and take will get along at least in business after this. we sure can't use more drama and grudges held.
On August 17 2013 10:24 Bagration wrote: Not again! First you had the problems with Jessica, the shady manager and Slayers breaking up, and now this.
I'm tired of my favorite teams going through all this drama. Maybe it's time for me to move on as well. There is a world outside of eSports.
EDIT - this is a general statement and not directed at Bagration. YOU is not Bagration. YOU is YOU.
all you have to do is stay away from the 'community'. just enjoy starcraft. hang with your friends or get your friends into it. watch the broadcasts. stay out of this and the reddit and the youtube cesspool.
it would be nice if all could take a step back and look at this thread as a representation of what is wrong with esports and gaming communities in general. So many people here, with the barest of information, are making assessments and judgments of a personal nature, on both sides. How ridiculous of any of you to think your opinion about Genna or Take is A) informed or B) remotely reflects reality. It is opinion based on an emotional response to limited information and the barest of context.
These are people, with lives. Just like all of you. Regardless of your feelings, people like Take, TB, Genna, work hard due to their passion for the game and the ecosystem around it. They do it to be an integral part of it, to help shape it, to help improve it. You and I reap the benefit, and as thanks they get shit on, mischaracterized, and over-simplified for almost everything they do. They get fed a constant stream of hate and bile and over-the-top vitriol for the slightest thing.
Take a step back and look at the landscape of this conversation. Look at the emotions being hinted at. Such strong reactions from Genna, TB, and Take over seemingly relatively small things. Perhaps there is a larger picture? If you think Genna is weak for having stepped down, you are incredibly shortsighted. If you think esports is better without people like Genna, TB, or Take, you are incredibly shortsighted.
What esports needs is less of YOU (in the plural). And me. Meaning, less forums like this for the general public to opine ad nauseum about things they know nothing about and have zero true stake in.
Show support for these people who have helped elevate this game to the place it is now, and stop there. Your consumption of entertainment entitles you to nothing. YOU kill the passion of those willing to step up and elevate this business and make it viable so that it can continue. YOU will kill the thing you claim to love, and embitter the people with the talent and drive to give you what you want. With the smallest bit of self-reflection you will know if you are the YOU I'm speaking of.
I hope that this also doesn't hurt Totalbiscuit's casting career. I can see people causing problems if there was an Axiom player who did really good in any future events that are hosted/funded by TB.
Honestly, I believe that TaKe is completely in the right throughout this controversy.
So many people are quick to notice the lines where he hopes that what Genna did was punishable, that they ignored his reasoning.
[6:51:49 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: i guess if acer gonna read this they will get mad [6:51:54 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: that you posted it online [6:51:55 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: 10 times [6:52:02 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: more than u can ever imagine [6:52:14 AM] Dennis.Gehlen: cause there you let acer look very bad
Keep in mind that this was written just after he heard the news. He was afraid that Acer would pull their sponsorship from the tournament due to the potential bad press (Acer wouldn't cover more of Axioms expenses). He had no idea that Acer would be ok with Genna posting that. If you look at it from this perspective, where Acer was potentially pulling a sponsorship, greatly hurting his business, legal action would be completely acceptable. Even if he wasn't worried about that, then it would just be something you yell at someone when mad, with no serious intent.
At this time, it was his first time hearing about it, and this was his first response. This was never intended to be public, as he didn't know what he was talking about. He expected the worst and was in a state of panic. In comparison, look at TB's first response to this controversy. Which one was more severe?
Finally, I want to talk about professionalism. I would never release private conversations publicly without consent, nor would I want a private conversation released without my consent. While I understand you were trying to be open, a sentence could of done the same effect: "Even though TaKe tried to get Acer to sponsor for travel, and even offered to pay out of his own pocket, we still couldn't afford to travel." Doing so is not only more professional, it says exactly what it needs. Releasing his first response, which was likely before he had a chance to talk to Acer, just makes you look even more unprofessional.
Furthermore, TB's response was absurd. I understand she's your wife and all, even if she's depressed, but how do you think TaKe is trying to save face? You posted his private conversation to your wife. Saving face would be releasing a statement afterwards. Not to mention things like boycotting all events held by him and your general hatred towards him was completely unprofessional, embarrassing, and childish.
I feel disgust at anyone who hates TaKe after this. Don't get me wrong, I like Genna, but I'm glad she is gone if she can't take the stress of managing a team.
funny shit u guys. tb & genna -> lil cry babies ? take ->bad english, good person. TB &Genna rethink their unbelieveable awesomeness ? Talking about how great u are while taking a shit on someone elses head while being in public is the opposite of intelligence.
This thing is so ridiculous. I have stopped reading TL's forum a long time ago because of this unprofessional comedy act that is going on. "The eSport Scene" is once again making a joke of itself. But then, most "Scenes" are only good at pretending they're meaningful.
The thing that makes me post, though, is how unable even native english speakers are to read beyond words like "law" or "punishable". Apparently, putting those two words in one sentence is enough to imply "I'm going to sue you." I'm saying this, because even with rudimentary secondary school reading skills, you should be able to read that sentence as someone being mad, true, wishing you could get into trouble for what you did, true... and that's it. Dennis doesn't have the bucks to fly a team over to his place, do you really think he's got the money to start coughing up big dough for a law suit? TB, you're even sillier than I thought...
But let's assume he did threaten. I totally stood behind him the second you involved his sponsor in those private conversations. I have no idea what you thought you were doing, Genna, but have you even given it one minute of thought before you made that post? Did you consider that by even just mentioning Acer, you may provoke reactions that neither you nor Dennis had any control over that could have repercussions to Teams not even involved with your little emotional meltdown?
Leaving aside who's right or wrong, Dennis didn't exactly initiate the drama.
@TB: I feel sorry for you. I just listened to your podcast and you seem to be a mentally challenged person. I hope life is treating you well. "Defending my own" at the price of losing your integrity? You could do that, I guess. OR you could not make it worse than it already is and calm the situation down while at the same time still be loyal to your wife. You idiot didn't only make her look worse than she is, because your actions do reflect on her, you also pretty much ruined any attempt at transparency you're trying to achieve in eSport. Which is one of the specific goals your wife expressed...
Little thought experiment: Assume you and Take make up and kiss... because you're on drugs and Take is... well, himself. Do you REALLY think, he's going to share any sensitive information with you ever again after he got burned this badly? EVER? If I was Dennis, I'd think very carefully what I tell people in "private" conversations from now on, assuming everything I say in Skype gets published eventually. How exactly is that making the SC2 eSport business more transparent? How is that instilling trust in business partners all over the place? Did you ever consider what other teams would think about you or even their own business partners when they talk about business deals the next time, how it would affect sponsor's perception of this whole SC2 eSport experiment? Because this still the stage you guys are at, just an experiment. You guys have to grow the fuck up real fast if you ever want to turn this into a broad business with a stable foundation, because as it is, SC2 dies the second Blizz loses interest or LoL reaches critical mass (ie, begins to raise interest at TV stations for broadcasts).
While I find this kind of drama amusing, and freely admit the entertainment has kept me... well, entertained for the last hour. I'm not sure that is what any of you wanted to achieve here. Yes, even the silly people not being able to read some broken english from a guy who's just trying to get his point across, that he's pissed. But I'm feeling quite certain that you achieved your goal and he won't say something silly like that to business partners again. Or anything else too sensible for you lot to read. :D
On August 17 2013 12:42 NerdCRAFT wrote: I hope that this also doesn't hurt Totalbiscuit's casting career. I can see people causing problems if there was an Axiom player who did really good in any future events that are hosted/funded by TB.
Please dude - TB can be a bitch from time to time but most certainly not in a match-fixing kinda way. While i think that TB and Genna dropped the ball on this one, it looks nothing like a scam at all. People seriously needs to grow up if they refuse to watch content from either of the involved parties because of this.
I'm not sure I fully understand why exactly your leaving after a small screw up (if it can even be considered one). But I'm not a genius here, so I don't expect to understand everything. Either way, good luck in the future, Genna! I'm sure TB will take good care of your team.
This is very saddening, as you've created one of the community's favorite teams, but it is your decision to make and I do believe I speak for the rest of us when I say we will miss you as the role of our favorite team owner, but that we wish you great success and happiness in your future endeavors. Thank you for your efforts.
Genna is one of the most passionate people I've met in eSports. It's really sad that she has decided to step down, as her dedication to the team is something unique and I wish more people were like her. I think her only "fault" was her total openess and honesty with all of us, and I don't think that deserved the mess which happened.
I refuse to say good-bye yet, as I hope there's a chance of Genna being back, doing what she clearly loved doing, alongside the team she's began.
why did she had to make all this shit public that doesnt help anyone why didnt she just said something like this "due to misscommunication axiom cannot attend to atc"
Sad news, and then on my birthday(16th). Thanks for all you have done, and for being pioneering. Pioneers being the witchhunted today, legends tomorrow. I can't even phantom the pains it must feel, that losing your "baby" must feel like. I mourn for both my, our, and your loss.
I hope you still will be pulling the strings in the dark.
The only people that could possibly believe Take was thrown under the bus by Gennas post with the chatlogs are people that didn't bother to read it. There's nothing in that post that makes Acer or Take look bad, in fact quite the opposite. The original statement was causing confusion and people were lashing out, the second post was meant to clarify the situation and share the facts to show how it could have possibly got to that point. Acer looked GOOD in that post, so did Take. Sure, mistakes were made on the communication front but that post showed that all parties had worked really hard to try and solve the situation. Axiom was getting crucified over it for no apparent reason and Gennas duty as manager was to do what she could to alleviate that. She did exactly what any other team owner would have done in that situation, tried to clear the air.
As we have seen though, the reason why we're dishonest with the community is because apparently they can't handle the truth and it causes more problems than it solves. You guys crave openness and detailed statements but lose your shit when you get them? You demand detailed explanations from people like MLG when they make statements like "Hey, we're not doing SC2 at Columbus"? This is why you don't get them, because if you found out everything you'd lose your shit.
I want to apologize for my post, made hasty assumptions.
EPT
) but to think that the Sponsors of a Tournament rly should Pay all the Teams for even Playing the Cup... All HSC Qauli, only Place 1 good Paid no Problems at all so wtf is the problem...![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/bG3ACwS.png)
