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This is a heated issue, but please keep the debate civil.
Personal insult is not 'discussion' and will be moderated. -Pg 36 |
wow, this is so sad. Genna being one of the most awesome people in this scene, having to leave because of this drama. >o<
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So disapointed in Dennis Gehlen #NoHSC2014 lol
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On August 16 2013 17:23 CarbonTwelve wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 17:15 fleeze wrote:On August 16 2013 17:03 CarbonTwelve wrote:On August 16 2013 16:46 OblivionMage wrote:On August 16 2013 16:40 Advantageous wrote:
why is TaKe doing this... i thought TaKe was a cool guy until now... All he did was privately write "I wonder if there is legal action against this?" referring to Genna posting private conversation logs that he felt poorly represented Acer. He didn't say "I wonder", he said "I hope". Very different. On August 16 2013 17:01 namste wrote:On August 16 2013 16:57 CarbonTwelve wrote:On August 16 2013 16:28 ptbl wrote:On August 16 2013 16:22 CarbonTwelve wrote:On August 16 2013 16:11 OblivionMage wrote:On August 16 2013 16:09 Shebuha wrote:On August 16 2013 16:04 OblivionMage wrote:
[quote]
So let me get this straight:
Misc. issues cause Axiom to not be able to attend an event.
Genna posts announcement.
Minor (MINOR) disgruntlement from community.
Genna seeks to defend herself and her team, posting private chats of her and TaKe.
TaKe sees these, and realizes it could make Acer look bad, and in this money-starved business, that's the worst thing you could do.
TaKe gets mad, writes angrily to Genna.
Genna again posts a private conversation and calls it quits.
At the end of the day, TaKe was just paranoid about making a sponsor look bad, I don't think that's at all problematic. Yeah, the legal threats were dumb, but Genna's posting them publicily to try to crucify TaKe seems worse. 1. lol. 2. No, he thought it could make Acer look bad, which it in no way could. 3. That was not her intention. 4. The more I read from Genna and TB the more I love the both of them. I will support them both, as well as Axiom itself, until the end. So you think it was a good idea to post private business conversations to make you and your organization look good in the communities eyes at the expense of another individual and at the expense of a sponsor? You support that, right? That's totally cool with you? It wasn't at the expense of another individual or the expense of a sponsor. Did you actually read the blog? Genna mentioned several times that she thought TaKe was awesome and that he was going out of his way to help out their team, and that in no way was it Acer's fault. No matter her intent, she should have afforded take the professional courtesy to notify and receive his consent to post the private conversations to the public. It's like Nazgul let's TB know in private that he received 50k from a sponsor. That's good news right? But that doesn't give TB the right to tell the public about the content of the conversation he had with nazgul without notification and consent. It's a matter of professional courtesy Yeah, I can agree that professionally courtesy would suggest you should get permission first, but I don't agree with TaKe's response that he hopes someone can get punished by law for that. If this was actual business world and not eSports business world, there could and most likely would be legal consequences. But I'm not a lawyer of any sorts so I'm just guessing. For the first post, no, there couldn't, and there wouldn't, and I have studied law. The second post is a bit more possible, but still unlikely. YOU did you study WORLD LAW or what? as a fucking lawyer you should know different countries have different laws. germany has some pretty strict laws on private data, btw. I never said I was a lawyer, but as someone who has studied law I also know about jurisdiction, and what German law can do about something that someone from the US posted whilst in the US on a US site hosted in the US.
what's legal in the US isn't necessarily legal in germany. that's my point. as a person who studied law, you should know.
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Infigthing won't help to move the eSports industry forward :/
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Germany423 Posts
So the management of a SC2 team is no hobby for a bored wife that plays with the money of her man, especially if you can't handle the stress. Surprise.
Now prepare (if it has not already happened) for drama from TB for more reddit and YT views.
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To me, all this drama just doesnt make any sense. Both parties have done a lot for E-sports and are passionate about it. I find it hard to believe that either just wants to save face by screwing the other over. This may go a lot deeper or it could simply be some petty differences that werent handled in a mature manner.
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Wasnt expecting to ever see something like this, your an out-standing manager to axiom, and the things you talk about to do with crank etc are amazing, im sure all the guys will miss you in that role it is a pretty hefty loss for them IMO.
Was a very good run though of multiple top positions in tournaments, i hope some day you return to continuing guiding the guys, but until then good luck with future endeavours 
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This is ridiculous, as a fan of e-Sports I am completely and utterly disappointed in which the manner TaKe has dealt with this. Completely lost my respect for TaKe and will be avoiding his events from hereon in. Some transparency is good in a startup industry and in an e-Sport, fans should know if there are issues like this, threatening to sue for someone revealing truths to fans is just low. Axiom qualified 2nd in the group stage, was not given funds to travel and you expect them to keep it a secret without explaining to fans? I hope TaKe will take a good hard look on his own conduct, defending sponsors is no reason to act like a douche.
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On August 16 2013 13:56 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 13:55 teddyoojo wrote:On August 16 2013 13:52 TotalBiscuit wrote:On August 16 2013 13:51 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:On August 16 2013 13:44 ptbl wrote:On August 16 2013 13:36 dcemuser wrote:On August 16 2013 13:35 ptbl wrote:
Take has the right to be angry. He is the "injured" party. It wasn't take who revealed the private conversations without the other parties consent nor notification. Irrelevant. She stepped on toes (while painting him as a good person), he stepped over the line. uhh, Genna exposed the fact that Liquid needed monetary support to send players to the ATC final. Take told Genna the information in confidence, but she revealed it without proper notification nor consent. So, what do you mean it made Take look good. Airing dirty laundry is never good. Take volunteered to pay thousands of dollars to help Axiom come to ATC. No he didn't. as they are public might aswell Dennis : okay i see but lets be honest thier chances doing pretty okay at the finale are there if we cant find a deal at all it would be the worst solution right? the point is i dont have big budgets that i can pay from my own pocket 3-4-5 flights
Genna : Worst case scenario, we forfeit and Millenium takes our slot.
Dennis : but before a team is not coming i really wanna help and even willing to pay some of my money into it thats why i ask i just try to find options
Genna : I'll have to talk to John about it to see if we have anything leftover from our sponsor pool for the month.
Dennis : okay and i will talk to acer about it if they would cover another 1500+ i think i am willing to help to on top
"If Acer will pay an additional fee I will try and help" is not the same thing.
Why are you leaving the "on top" part out?
Since he said
"<requirement> i am willing to help to (sic!) on top"
Say it would cost 5k (example) and you / Acer would be able to cover 4k of it, he would cover the 1k, which is him volunteering to help Axiom come to ATC.
He apparently wasnt in a position to pay 5k alone (or wasnt willing to) but he was willing to help.
So yes, he did.
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On August 16 2013 17:37 Khai wrote:
This is ridiculous, as a fan of e-Sports I am completely and utterly disappointed in which the manner TaKe has dealt with this. Completely lost my respect for TaKe and will be avoiding his events from hereon in. Some transparency is good in a startup industry and in an e-Sport, fans should know if there are issues like this, threatening to sue for someone revealing truths to fans is just low. Axiom qualified 2nd in the group stage, was not given funds to travel and you expect them to keep it a secret without explaining to fans? I hope TaKe will take a good hard look on his own conduct, defending sponsors is no reason to act like a douche.
Act like a douche? He even offered Genna to ask Acer if they could help in this situation.
There is only one douche in this matter, and that's the person who writes "fuck you, take" in his twitter.
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Germany423 Posts
On August 16 2013 17:40 Roqshu wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 17:37 Khai wrote:
This is ridiculous, as a fan of e-Sports I am completely and utterly disappointed in which the manner TaKe has dealt with this. Completely lost my respect for TaKe and will be avoiding his events from hereon in. Some transparency is good in a startup industry and in an e-Sport, fans should know if there are issues like this, threatening to sue for someone revealing truths to fans is just low. Axiom qualified 2nd in the group stage, was not given funds to travel and you expect them to keep it a secret without explaining to fans? I hope TaKe will take a good hard look on his own conduct, defending sponsors is no reason to act like a douche. Act like a douche? He even offered Genna to ask Acer if they could help in this situation. There is only one douche in this matter, and that's the person who writes "fuck you, take" in his twitter.
And he also offered to pay for some of the costs out of his own pocket to make the event possible.
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On August 16 2013 12:56 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 12:53 sumsaR wrote:
I'm not sure I understand why you're retiring. Because of something stupid someone said in a private chat about something stupid? I guess it should have been spelled out in the post. What just happened is just a tiny taste of the sheer amount of bullshit, backroom nonsense, immaturity and general awfulness that happens in this scene on a daily basis. This is the straw that broke the camels back after a years worth of stress that would have crushed a lesser person far sooner. Sorry, people aren't robots, emotions exist, stress is a real thing and there comes a point where its' better to step back for your own health. The audacity that anyone is questioning her decision to leave and pretending to know what's going on in her head, the sheer audacity.
Yeah I read so many stupid posts saying she's an idiot blah blah blah. People dont seem to understand what it takes to do what Genna does. They're just being ignorant sadly. I'm not saying that I know everything that has happened but I do realize she didnt just make this decision because she is weak, but in fact the opposite. Strong enough to do what is best for her :-/
On August 16 2013 17:44 Gr33d wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 17:40 Roqshu wrote:On August 16 2013 17:37 Khai wrote:
This is ridiculous, as a fan of e-Sports I am completely and utterly disappointed in which the manner TaKe has dealt with this. Completely lost my respect for TaKe and will be avoiding his events from hereon in. Some transparency is good in a startup industry and in an e-Sport, fans should know if there are issues like this, threatening to sue for someone revealing truths to fans is just low. Axiom qualified 2nd in the group stage, was not given funds to travel and you expect them to keep it a secret without explaining to fans? I hope TaKe will take a good hard look on his own conduct, defending sponsors is no reason to act like a douche. Act like a douche? He even offered Genna to ask Acer if they could help in this situation. There is only one douche in this matter, and that's the person who writes "fuck you, take" in his twitter. And he also offered to pay for some of the costs out of his own pocket to make the event possible.
And then he threatened to sue? I guess some things outweight others. And John and Genna has done so much good and so little bad has come out about that I believe their words untill TaKe proves otherwise. You know its easy to offer things when you know you wont have to live up to them.
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On August 16 2013 17:33 Gr33d wrote:
So the management of a SC2 team is no hobby for a bored wife that plays with the money of her man, especially if you can't handle the stress. Surprise.
Now prepare (if it has not already happened) for drama from TB for more reddit and YT views.
Recall SlayerS incident, when another team manager was mad and posted private / compromising team information before calling it quits.
Recall Axioms (TBs) stance & comments about said person back then.
Laugh or cry, whatever you feel like 
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Smix
United States4549 Posts
Sigh I'm sorry that things turned out this way. Every time I talked to you your love for your team and individual players was so evident - honestly feel it's rare to see that level of personal love and concern for the players from team owners (minus victor). I wish you only the best and hope I can continue seeing you at events in the future. <3
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On August 16 2013 13:17 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 13:15 geokilla wrote:On August 16 2013 13:11 TotalBiscuit wrote:On August 16 2013 13:10 Bagi wrote:
Feels like overreaction. The childish "fuck Take"-stuff isn't helping anyone either. Yeah man we should totally just hug it out after he threatened my wife and the team with legal action. Is this the first time you got threatened with legal action? My mom deals with that daily at her work with clients. Grow up. I got threatened with legal action and racism a couple days ago. You know what I did? I played it cool, stayed calm, and finished my transaction with the buyer. News just in, eSports is not the same as working at a supermarket.
You're right, people who work at supermarkets actually have professionalism and don't act like children every time there's an altercation. Very useful talent to(i) have.
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On August 16 2013 17:24 namste wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 17:22 [F_]aths wrote:On August 16 2013 16:10 Awesomeness wrote:On August 16 2013 16:08 Ghanburighan wrote:On August 16 2013 16:06 Bagi wrote:On August 16 2013 14:17 BroOd wrote:
You know what would be so refreshing? If both parties could sort this privately while publicly apologizing for turning it into a spectacle in the first place. Save 10 pages of bickering and refuting this and that, save one more shovel of shit on the pile, and surprise everyone in the community by acting like business-minded individuals. I'm sure all players involved with both parties will be grateful. This post is so good it made the front page of reddit, but I have to say I don't think Take has to publicly apologize for anything. He did absolutely nothing to turn this into a public spectacle, if anything he wanted the opposite. So good it made it on Reddit. Please allow me to detach myself of your notion of "good". It was already a public spectacle because it's public information that a team will not fly to the ATC finals. Everything that came later was damage control. This blog is literally the opposite of demage control. Maybe it is not always about professional damage control, but revealing the personal experience of a matter. I rather like this open approach by the Bain family than professionally managed damage control. Like it or don't like it, I think it'll end up eventually hurting the team and the players in it. That's what is supposed to matter the most, not saving a person's face or anything like that. Before they "hurt" the team, they at least created one. Maybe it is better to create a good team like Axiom and "hurting" it a little bit that creating a blood-dry team with personality-free smooth talkers. Maybe the scene is big enough for both types of teams.
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On August 16 2013 17:45 SamuelGreen wrote:
And John and Genna has done so much good and so little bad
You know nothing about those people, except what they want you to know.
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On August 16 2013 17:40 Roqshu wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 17:37 Khai wrote:
This is ridiculous, as a fan of e-Sports I am completely and utterly disappointed in which the manner TaKe has dealt with this. Completely lost my respect for TaKe and will be avoiding his events from hereon in. Some transparency is good in a startup industry and in an e-Sport, fans should know if there are issues like this, threatening to sue for someone revealing truths to fans is just low. Axiom qualified 2nd in the group stage, was not given funds to travel and you expect them to keep it a secret without explaining to fans? I hope TaKe will take a good hard look on his own conduct, defending sponsors is no reason to act like a douche. Act like a douche? He even offered Genna to ask Acer if they could help in this situation. There is only one douche in this matter, and that's the person who writes "fuck you, take" in his twitter.
He phrased it differently.
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I don't even know what to think of all this.
After reading Genna's post before I had absolutely no ill feelings towards either party. Axiom got shafted on air fares a week or so before, so it was totally understandable why they couldn't afford to fly the whole team over to Germany. Dennis' responses seemed helpful in trying to resolve the situation and actually increased my opinion of him and he has been a great guy all around providing us with some premier type tournaments just out of his house! Acer obviously did nothing wrong in this whole thing. If anyones reputation was damaged, it was Gennas by assuming the air fares would be paid for from some distant memory, while not being true.
Hell, I've been enjoying Dennis' BecomeAPro broadcasts with Harstem and Daishi so much lately and in addition to the last thread that I wanted to buy a sub again as soon as my money wire into paypal completed.
I wake up this morning and see all this bullshit. The money wire has been completed but now I can't really support bullying like this. In addition, who the hell expects privacy on a chat program like Skype? A chat program that sends your stuff in plaintext over Microsofts servers?
Please Dennis, don't internet if you're angry. Send emails with a confidentiality clause on the bottom if you really want things private. In any case, yeah that twitch sub isn't going to happen any time soon.
And Genna, glhf with Cynical Brit in the future!
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I really thought Genna had what it took to be a strong solid team manager.
Guess i was wrong, what a pussy move do make rather than stand up for yourself and your team...
GLHF
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EPT
