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This is a heated issue, but please keep the debate civil.
Personal insult is not 'discussion' and will be moderated. -Pg 36 |
Kinda looks like there want someone to see Take suffer and let him look bad...
Or i am just totally blind... but i think there was more than enough response from Take's side...
Dont he tried hard to find a solution, tbh i also understand Genna but it just overall felt like there was some miss communicating between TakeTV and Axiom and the Blog rly. just looks like a "through some dirt around-blog"
I mean
"B ) TakeTV for not communicating clearly with teams."
or
"Acer for not providing enough sponsorship to support travel for the offline portion of ATC."
I Did the Same in my Childhood everytime i wanted the Support of my Friends and let someone look bad xD
"sponsorship to support travel" But that just killed my mind... I am a german GM not the best but good enough to travel to some Offline Events (gc next week  ) but to think that the Sponsors of a Tournament rly should Pay all the Teams for even Playing the Cup... All HSC Qauli, only Place 1 good Paid no Problems at all so wtf is the problem...
If someone never said he will pay the full TravelCosts... u just ask.
If i invite my Mates over for a Houseparty they dont think i will pay a taxi for them or drive to them to get them ... They just Ask "how we can come to you/who drives to Denis"... And tbh its kinda the same... its only about Ask/Writte an Email about "TakeTV/Acer pay the travel costs?" and dont believe they will do because they asked us to play the Cup.
Maybe i am just dumb or dont read something but its a KINDERGARTTTTEN!
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On August 16 2013 22:08 akaRobin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 22:07 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On August 16 2013 21:58 akaRobin wrote:On August 16 2013 13:00 TotalBiscuit wrote:On August 16 2013 12:58 Joedaddy wrote:
Pretty shitty move when you make what one presumed to be a private conversation public. Even if you didn't think it was a big deal, Dennis obviously did. Fuck Dennis. If he wasn't so concerned about saving face rather than being honest with everybody about his mismanaged tournament then some of this might not have happened. When you say "I hope there are legal consequences for what you've done" all bets are off, I lose any respect I've had for you. I hope Take enjoyed the free casting and the numbers, I'll never deal with him and his organisation ever again. Why no temp ban or warning for the first rly proffesional word ?!? TB and Genna sounds like 8year old kids. Grow up, all of u, such a shame for the E-Sport scene. Why no temp ban for all the morons in these threads that bash either side without bothering to listen to both stories? I did, trust me but i dont get why someone can use bad words and someone not? Can u tell me?
Pretty sure it says in the TL Ten Commandments thread that important community figures/contributors are given a lot more leeway than the average poster. Deal with it.
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TB and Genna, the kind of neighbours you never want to have.
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Why do people expect to be paid in full when they enter a tournament?
You are supposed to perform before you get paid, no?
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This is such a massive non-issue. A communication breakdown spirals out of control and makes us all look bad as a result. I know we're a young industry with many first time DIY entrepreneurs but we need a heavy dose of perspective and professionalism after this incident. Sorry to all the parties involved.
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Vatican City State582 Posts
Oh, my beloved SC2 community, full of drama and scandals from day 1
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If we don't see ATC season 2 because of this I will be soooo mad...
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51485 Posts
On August 16 2013 22:07 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 21:58 akaRobin wrote:On August 16 2013 13:00 TotalBiscuit wrote:On August 16 2013 12:58 Joedaddy wrote:
Pretty shitty move when you make what one presumed to be a private conversation public. Even if you didn't think it was a big deal, Dennis obviously did. Fuck Dennis. If he wasn't so concerned about saving face rather than being honest with everybody about his mismanaged tournament then some of this might not have happened. When you say "I hope there are legal consequences for what you've done" all bets are off, I lose any respect I've had for you. I hope Take enjoyed the free casting and the numbers, I'll never deal with him and his organisation ever again. Why no temp ban or warning for the first rly proffesional word ?!? TB and Genna sounds like 8year old kids. Grow up, all of u, such a shame for the E-Sport scene. Why no temp ban for all the morons in these threads that bash either side without bothering to listen to both stories?
Well i think he is meaning, you cant say "Fuck" against someone in the manner TB, i don't think he cares about the half decent replies in the thread, but when you just blatantly BM someone on a forum your just looking silly and make the forum look bad.
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I think, Dennis´ statement clears the air in this arguement. Given, he did overreact at some point, but that was in response to Genna making their private conversation puplic (thats an absolute "no-go" in any case).
From my point of view - i only managed some amateur-teams in WC3 - it is rather unprofessinal as a Pro-Team-Manager to not take the initiative and ask about any travel expenses. Maybe Take had the responsibility to inform evry team in detail regarding the tournament - but its also evry Team-Managers responsibility to at least double-check.
If you believe Take, that he tried to solve the argument with Genna by contacting her several times - without reaction on her side - and that Take pays for Liquids trip with his private money, it is - at least to me - quite clear, who deserves more credibility. And: Private conversations are private.
Besides, ive known Dennis from his WC3-times as "Rine". I sometimes dislike his way of doing things (e.g. quality and choice of casters for his Dota-2 project), but i would never deny him his passion and his positive way to bring esports forward - as he said even with his private money. It is somewhat sad to read about the disrespect a lot of you are showing to a man who has sacrificed a lot by making casting/streaming his main profession.
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On August 16 2013 22:11 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 22:08 akaRobin wrote:On August 16 2013 22:07 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On August 16 2013 21:58 akaRobin wrote:On August 16 2013 13:00 TotalBiscuit wrote:On August 16 2013 12:58 Joedaddy wrote:
Pretty shitty move when you make what one presumed to be a private conversation public. Even if you didn't think it was a big deal, Dennis obviously did. Fuck Dennis. If he wasn't so concerned about saving face rather than being honest with everybody about his mismanaged tournament then some of this might not have happened. When you say "I hope there are legal consequences for what you've done" all bets are off, I lose any respect I've had for you. I hope Take enjoyed the free casting and the numbers, I'll never deal with him and his organisation ever again. Why no temp ban or warning for the first rly proffesional word ?!? TB and Genna sounds like 8year old kids. Grow up, all of u, such a shame for the E-Sport scene. Why no temp ban for all the morons in these threads that bash either side without bothering to listen to both stories? I did, trust me but i dont get why someone can use bad words and someone not? Can u tell me? Pretty sure it says in the TL Ten Commandments thread that important community figures/contributors are given a lot more leeway than the average poster. Deal with it.
Thx alot, I am only a small light here on TL but u make things more shiny. Sound like a two-tier society. I said it before, grow up and do the best for E-sport, all of u.
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I have to agree with most of you. Gennna acted unprofessional and assumed the trip would be paid. She has to apologies!
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one thing is still missing to close this topic:
TBs apology.
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Okay, please don't take this the wrong way, but it's probably for the best that Genna is now not running an esports team. Of course she's passionate about it and wants to do the best job she can, but I just don't see her as capable. It still boggles my mind that those private conversations were posted online, and even still there. In my opinion, there are people who are way too invested in the community for their own good. Sorry for including you, but incontrol is another example. I could be wrong, but I strongly get the impression that these people really take to heart what's said about them and how the community will react to them. I feel like a lot of personalities in the community have a long way to go to get to at least the semi-professional level necessary. This 'drama' is so ridiculous that for once I'm even surprised it happened.
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On August 16 2013 22:21 fleeze wrote:
one thing is still missing to close this topic:
TBs apology.
Never going to happen.
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Seriously, I don't get all the fuzz about releasing "private conversations" in this case. First of all, Genna depicted Take in a rather positive light. The messages she posted clearly showed Take trying to find a solution and help Axiom out (as he mentioned e.g. paying part of the cost out of his own pocket as part of an arrangement). The remaining e-mail-logs just lend structure to her line of argument. They serve both as a piece of evidence and a clear depicition of what happened in order to avoid misunderstanding and to adhere to the facts. As far as I am concerned, neither private matters nor sensitive business information were revealed. It is only logical to fortify one's argument with accompanying evidence as long as no sensitive information is revealed to the public.
As much as Take's stance in keeping all of this matter private on his part is honorable, his statement is just that: it has nothing backing it up. I can only trust in his words. As for the matter regarding the travel expenses: As Genna's logs show, Axiom wasn't informed that they had to pay for the flights themselves. This was confirmed by staff of TakeTv. Mistakes happen, but it is not okay to seek responsibility in Axiom by claiming that TakeTv simply never said that travel-costs would be paid for by the organizers. It was their responsibility to inform the participating teams beforehand - in my opinion, participating in an extended teamleague including offline-finals is not the same as sending players to a tournament like Dreamhack or HSC. Therefore, you can't expect the invited teams to assume that they're having to cover the travel-expenses themselves.
I am not taking any sides here, I am just trying to stick to the facts that I know of. But then again, this is still just my opinion.
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On August 16 2013 20:45 Capped wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 20:29 TaKeSeN wrote:
We sent an email which said we have 20k pricemoney and an offline finale and they agreed to play it via mail.
After they played the last playday they realize we dont pay the whole trip cause we give them a reminder that we offer 1500 and hotels and then this happens? This is very sad honestly.
//Dennis This is where it all stemmed from, i keep saying it and everyone else is jumping up and down about bullshit that doesnt matter. Genna assumed this, never looked into it or had any information regarding it and everything went to shit because of it. She realised she fucked up and started trying to strawman / put blame where it wasnt (at people and other information) then all of a sudden has a breakdown and leaves the team when it doesnt work. Its sad honestly, both that she fucked up and she has other personal / business issues not regarding the team, but its no excuse to 1) fuck up and especially 2) start throwing around private emails / walls of text that dont even matter and shitflinging at people. This could have been solved with one line. "I didnt realise my team would have to pay for travel and accommodation to an offline finals" Followed by "It is my fault, i assumed the costs would be paid with no information stating or remotely hinting at this and i neglected to read the email properly that informed us of an offline finals" Ending with! "Im sorry." Instead of lying about not being told about an offline finals (in the same post she posted a private email saying there WAS an offline finals) and untold other crap. Again. Ass UMe
This.
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On August 16 2013 22:34 Sharean wrote:
As far as I am concerned, neither private matters nor sensitive business information were revealed.
Obviously, TaKe is of a different opinion and since it was his conversation that was leaked, that makes all the difference.
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Thank you alot for this whole tread, many people may think this very conflict is unnecessary and even hurts the scene and i do to agree, but i think it also bears some educational,teaching, far deeper value within it self.
This whole story showed, at least my humble self, what a "shitstorm" is, how it can start and some more.
I think communication in our day and age has developed, new mechanics like this so called "shitstorm", have emerged but we have yet to grow accustomed to them, no one actually wanted this "shitstorm" to happen, no one profits from it it just hurts everyone, the readers the fans and foremost the people involved.
So i dare to say, this tread should be read and people should try learn from it that the communication in the interent has its own dynamics, its own flow.
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EPT
