On September 28 2011 04:56 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote: Just a quick question: are the bad apples of the gypsies comparable to say, drug cartels in Mexico on a smaller scale? Just a question for the guys who actually have to deal with them as I live in America.
Yep. That's a fair compare. When you talk about the bad apples of the gypsies, you pretty much mean complete outlaws, who don't respect any sort of rules, laws and regulations. Being them jurisdictional or moral. Child abuse - check. Drug abuse - check. Robbery - check. Child labor - check. Pedophilia - check. Prostitution - check. Child prostitution - check. Tax avoidance - check. Smuggling - check. Bribery - check. Pretty much whatever crime you can think of, the bad apples amongst the gypsies are masters of it. The only crimes they're not very good at, are the ones over the internet. Thou there has been attempts. But then again - that applies to every ethnical or racial group, so it's kinda off-topic question. If we had to judge all hispanic people because of how the Mexican cartel acted, I bet there would be a few guys around here saying "hey, wtf TL ?!". But nah, since they're gypsies ... Srlsy ?
Then again, the whole idea about the protests here in Bulgaria is about fighting crime and corruption. Nothing to do with gypsies. It's about the incapable politicians and authorities. Nothing to do with ethnical or racial hatred. The media are trying to paint it whatever they like. But that's not news. The news is that a bunch of 75+ years old men (most of them well educated, as in university degrees) got arrested in the city of Varna and are charged with hooliganism. That's how our authorities are handing protests.
Dang, y'all happy discussing hatred of race or whatever in here, while you got no freaking clue what this whole deal has been up for. Hats off to the incredibly well educated TL community that turned this tread into "fuck the gypsies" one. Kudos lads !
On September 28 2011 04:53 Shiragaku wrote: Well this thread is incredibly surprising...I sense the lock coming soon. But do you think we are acting similar to what the whites were saying in the South about the African Americans about a century ago?
People who reach high post counts by being the ignorant guy with opinion on everything make me wanna cry.
---------------- THE RIOTS AREN'T ANTI - GYPSY ---------------
This thread, however, for some reason IS.
Jesus Christ, this thread is more ignorance-filled with the Alexander the Macedon thread. No, it's even worse than the mathematical priorities thread. How many times do we have to say that THE RIOTS AREN'T ANTI - GYPSY. And even if out of a hundred guys out there protesting there is one sick nazi jerk - so what, 1 idiot out of 100 isn't something that bad, right ? These people would come as nazi protesters, even if the riots are about taxes or sth like that, why focus on them ?
I sense the locking soon, too. Because commenting on the Bayern Munich : Manchester City game would be more on topic than what's happening here. Several pages before, some Bulgarians who know what they are talking about tried to create a discussion, but they get flooded by finger-pointing judgemental comments of 6k-posts people who make less sense than a 1-post guy on an Idra-Cruncher thread and have ZERO knowledge about the issue, but are programmed to use the word "RACISM" on as many places as they can ... And I'm sick of being called a racist by retards
On topic (surprisingly) : Now the breaking news says that after one of the palaces of the man who ordered the murder got ignited and almost burnt to the ground, documents from the secret services about this guy's crimes were found. This is no rumor, it has been confirmed. Apparently he has been informed by an insider on everything that might have threatened his status. The minister who's responsible about interior businesses (or however it's called in English) is apparently on vacation since yesterday. Just some food for thought about the awesome country we're living in xD
On September 28 2011 05:16 n00b3rt wrote: On topic (surprisingly) : Now the breaking news says that after one of the palaces of the man who ordered the murder got ignited and almost burnt to the ground, documents from the secret services about this guy's crimes were found. This is no rumor, it has been confirmed. Apparently he has been informed by an insider on everything that might have threatened his status. The minister who's responsible about interior businesses (or however it's called in English) is apparently on vacation since yesterday. Just some food for thought about the awesome country we're living in xD
By the way, did you hear the young party (БСП) activists found those documents in the ruins of the house that was set on fire? LOLOLOLOL
Fucking magic... 500 hundred pages of documentation, untouched.
I'm gonna make a note to this video: This "show" was aired on a Hungarian national commercial broadcasting network. We havetwo of those here, and a bunch of cable networks. This was aired from 5:30 pm to 6:30 from monday to friday. Yes, on a national network in the afternoons... If you think, you'd just flip to the other network, it had the exact same kind of show running.
IMO this topic should be closed, people just get emotional, angry and get banned, while others who doesn't have the roma problem have no idea what is going on in here.
"No, we won't let a mafia baron, all the more so a gypsy, boss us around! There is no justice for him! There is no court! He buys them with whole briefcases of money!"
The firm vow, voiced by a local from the southern village of Katunitsa near the town of Plovdiv, sums up best the recent bloody events there, which shook the whole country. Ten years of smoldering tensions between an affluent self-proclaimed Roma "tsar" and the residents, escalated at the end of the week into riots, cutting short the lives of two young Bulgarians. Their murder stirred sheer outrage in social networks and a wave of rallies across the country.
The unprecedented for Bulgaria events were widely described as ethnic clashes, but that is something of, though not entirely, a misnomer.
The violence erupted Friday after a 19-year old teenager was struck and killed by a mini-bus driver linked to the local Roma leader Kiril Rashkov, who piled up his huge wealth thanks to unscrupulous trade in fake alcohol and votes.
Rashkov and the boy, friend of the former mayor's son, had unsettled scores over land plots. Apparently the Roma baron decided to settle scores by killing the boy - an insolent and hideous act, which (accidentally) coincides with the launch of the presidential election campaign.
The issue here is not the bravado of a Roma. The issue here is the bravado of a man - who happens to be a Roma - that he can place himself above the law and terrorize the locals.
The question here is why the (obviously) corrupt police has left this mafia (not just Roma) clan do whatever they want?
"Tsar" Kiro comes from the typical derelict, garbage-strewn streets of Bulgarian Roma ghettos, which are home to most of the country's 375,000 Roma - although unofficial data estimates their true numbers come closer to 750,000, out of a population of 7.8 million. Here he lived together with skinny men rooting through piles of rubbish alongside pigs and fat women in flowing skirts cradling babies.
Today he has turned into a clan chief, one of those who struck it rich after the collapse of Communism, lives in luxury, drives gleaming cars and has replaced his ramshackle house, made of poorly "cemented" bricks of clay and straw, with a true royal palace.
It was this palace that the rioters torched, creating a powerful symbol of what happens when there is no rule of law – people just take the law into their own hands.
The widely touted muscle-flexing police exercises failed to yield satisfactory results during the riots as well – the men in uniforms just stood in silence and watched.
It turns out that the authorities in Bulgaria, generally not held in high esteem, have little power not only over the larger Roma ghettos, where clan chiefs are left to rule, but also at villages and towns where the Slav people are majority, but Roma clan chiefs are left to rule. So the culture of the local Roma ghetto easily takes the upper hand and the place becomes rife with extortion, human trafficking, baby selling and other menaces.
And this is exactly why the simple wrangling over land plots escalated into a so-called ethnic clash, giving politicians the chance to play the ethnic card.
The Roma baron's power has been so extensive that Katunitsa was on the brink of becoming the "first private village" in popular parlance. His control relied on a small squad of Roma hitmen, who terrified anyone who dared to disobey.
It was only natural that at one point nationalists, chanting racist abuse, joined the riots. The culprit is a Roma man (and a mafia boss at that) and the stereotype is hard to fight for many reasons. Pickpockets and thieves, dirty, lazy, uneducated people, who have tons of kids and sponge off social assistance. This is how the average Bulgarian perceives the Gypsy people, despite the inroads the politically correct term "Roma" has made in people's everyday speech.
The self-proclaimed Roma tsar and a virtual landlord of the village of Katunitsa has been delivered a number of sentences, totaling thirty years in prison. But that was before the communist regime collapsed in 1989.
After that he seems to have been the darling of all those in power – none of the complaints or investigations against him has ended up in court. Reports say Rashkov was ready to fork out a whopping BGN 100,000 in bribes to make officials "forget" his case.
Besides it is more than clear that those in power need Rashkov – he is the man they rely upon to secure the votes of the Roma minority, who tip the balance in any elections in Bulgaria.
The events are clear defeats for Prime Minister Boiko Borisov and his interior minister Tsvetan Tsvetanov who, since taking office in late July 2009, repeatedly pledged to send top-level criminals to jail.
Katunitsa has turned into a symbol of the consequences of an inefficient judicial system and rule of law deficit. The conflict is a national problem, which perfectly illustrates the corruption and hideous perversions of justice that reign in Bulgaria.
And this is exactly why the country was forced, just days before Katunitsa's cauldron boiled over, to say goodbye to its bright Schengen hopes.
On September 28 2011 05:16 n00b3rt wrote: On topic (surprisingly) : Now the breaking news says that after one of the palaces of the man who ordered the murder got ignited and almost burnt to the ground, documents from the secret services about this guy's crimes were found. This is no rumor, it has been confirmed. Apparently he has been informed by an insider on everything that might have threatened his status. The minister who's responsible about interior businesses (or however it's called in English) is apparently on vacation since yesterday. Just some food for thought about the awesome country we're living in xD
By the way, did you hear the young party (БСП) activists found those documents in the ruins of the house that was set on fire? LOLOLOLOL
Fucking magic... 500 hundred pages of documentation, untouched.
Yep, political games is all it is about. Too made up to make anyone believe in it, but it would still put pressure on the current government so it's good news :D I was actually hoping to see a non-Bulgarian comment on that, just to check if anyone would use his brain on this instead of embracing it as the truth, just as a little test. Oh well ...
Don't forget that the murder organizer - Kiril Rashkov, is an honorary member of the ruling party - GERB, thou they're trying everything they can to deny it. Another member of that party is the "german slayer" - Yordan Letchkov, as he was known in that magical summer of '94 (World Cup USA '94). Nowdays he's more known as The Yambol slayer, for his monstrosities in the region around the city of Yambol, where he's the mayor and acts like a complete outlaw.
Basically, riots have begun in Bulgaria following the murder of a teenage boy by a nephew of a gypsy clan leader. The murder and the accident were intentional. the same thing happened in Romania in 1993 following gypsy criminality in a small village, and the Romanians were forced y the European Court of justice to give compensations to the gypsies. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hădăreni_riots Is Europe being hypocritical in the gypsy problem? Because France, Italy and other countries started deporting them, but when Romania and Bulgaria deported gypsies back in 1943 it was considered a "war crime". What do you think about the violences in Bulgaria and the gypsy problem in Europe in general?
I just wonder what people "who are not hypocritical" want to do with gypsies. Kill them all? That's a serious question. I don't say i have a solution, because modern societies are really not adapted to the culture and the way of life that this people has. But what is your solution? What would you like?
From what I know, Gypsies face an enormous amount of racism everywhere in Europe. That might be a good way to start to solve the "problem".
I can't say anything else than THE INTEGRATIONS of Gypsies is just bad,the government gave them apartments and they bring their horses in WTF? They live in their own world,i often go with the tram through one of the parts in Sofia where there are alot of gypsies,and there can be burning barrels,partying on the street or anything crazy..They are different people and are really difficult to be integrated..
Basically, riots have begun in Bulgaria following the murder of a teenage boy by a nephew of a gypsy clan leader. The murder and the accident were intentional. the same thing happened in Romania in 1993 following gypsy criminality in a small village, and the Romanians were forced y the European Court of justice to give compensations to the gypsies. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hădăreni_riots Is Europe being hypocritical in the gypsy problem? Because France, Italy and other countries started deporting them, but when Romania and Bulgaria deported gypsies back in 1943 it was considered a "war crime". What do you think about the violences in Bulgaria and the gypsy problem in Europe in general?
I just wonder what people "who are not hypocritical" want to do with gypsies. Kill them all? That's a serious question. I don't say i have a solution, because modern societies are really not adapted to the culture and the way of life that this people has. But what is your solution? What would you like?
From what I know, Gypsies face an enormous amount of racism everywhere in Europe. That might be a good way to start to solve the "problem".
Why should the people, who created their society there since 681 adapt to the newcomers, who came to steal ? Shouldn't it be the other way around ? Your country found the perfect solution to this problem. They deported the gypsies to Romania. If Romania does this, it would be racist.
On September 28 2011 05:16 n00b3rt wrote: On topic (surprisingly) : Now the breaking news says that after one of the palaces of the man who ordered the murder got ignited and almost burnt to the ground, documents from the secret services about this guy's crimes were found. This is no rumor, it has been confirmed. Apparently he has been informed by an insider on everything that might have threatened his status. The minister who's responsible about interior businesses (or however it's called in English) is apparently on vacation since yesterday. Just some food for thought about the awesome country we're living in xD
By the way, did you hear the young party (БСП) activists found those documents in the ruins of the house that was set on fire? LOLOLOLOL
Fucking magic... 500 hundred pages of documentation, untouched.
Yep, political games is all it is about. Too made up to make anyone believe in it, but it would still put pressure on the current government so it's good news :D I was actually hoping to see a non-Bulgarian comment on that, just to check if anyone would use his brain on this instead of embracing it as the truth, just as a little test. Oh well ...
Yeah, I bet those were taken out of someone's archive. They probably wanted to save them in case they needed to persuade him to do something, but oh well..
Also, if it puts pressure on the government... then what? Nothing. It's the same government that circulates, just pretending that we're a democratic country pretty much.
On September 28 2011 05:35 speedphlux wrote: Don't forget that the murder organizer - Kiril Rashkov, is an honorary member of the ruling party - GERB, thou they're trying everything they can to deny it. Another member of that party is the "german slayer" - Yordan Letchkov, as he was known in that magical summer of '94 (World Cup USA '94). Nowdays he's more known as The Yambol slayer, for his monstrosities in the region around the city of Yambol, where he's the mayor and acts like a complete outlaw.
C'est la vie mes amies.
He's been a member of each of the ruling parties, be it official or not. Remember the 90s when he bombed the "Trud" newspaper and the police called off the investigation because he was a valuable informant?
On September 28 2011 05:46 Medrea wrote: Holy fuck some of the people in this thread have serious racism issues. Where the fuck did some of you people come from and how can I send you back?
Thank you for you tremendous contribution to the thread. P.S. If someone says "may all gypsies die" at least no-one would take him seriously. Guys like this are hurting the thread more, shouldn't this be bannable too ?
Gypsies are all over the world and 99% of time they live in ghettos or on camps. No country has managed to integrate them. They are a social failure. The sitting Bulgarian authorities after 1989 (when Bulgaria changed from communism to democracy) are responsible for letting the gypsy population grow (approximately 2% in 1989 and around 8-9% now) I don't think any western Europe country would allow that. A gypsy in Bulgaria has more rights than a Bulgarian. It will take me hours to describe their many crimes like selling babies, rapes, thefts and many other. Once my cousin saw a gypsy on the street and him her fruit to eat, two seconds later the mother came and ripped it from her child's hands to eat it.
I am not being racist here it's just how it is. Gypsies are a social failure.
On September 28 2011 05:46 Medrea wrote: Holy fuck some of the people in this thread have serious racism issues. Where the fuck did some of you people come from and how can I send you back?
maybe they have a reason for it? from all the stuff i ever heard about "it" there has never ever been anything positive so yeah maybe some people would like not to have the ones that steal, rape, sell your kids( which is a way to high %) close to their children
giving them a place were they just have to stay alive for themselves without feeding on the rest of the country seems the only solution to me. if you have a better one please pm me with it. people will get mad when they have to pay for a group of people from which a too big part is criminal.
from what i've heard i'm happy they're not close to my home
I am a civil engineer, and in 1 class (city planning) when I was in university, we had to do a study about gypsy people in my city (there is a part of the city where many gypsy people live), and how we should integrate/upgrade the living conditions of their place and lives.
I'm not going to be a racist or anything I'm just going to state facts, please read our findings (we visited the place where they live many times (its a ghetto part of my city) with the help of a priest, the only person they respect (else we would end up dead)
Well after a lot of studying the main points are:
Many times in the last 30 years, new flats where given to them: They went in for 6 months, destroyed everything, went back to their shacks.
The majority of their children stop appearing at school after the age of around 6-7: Their parents send them to deal drugs or guns (ffs!)
At around the age of 8-9 they marry many of their children or force them to prostitution
They sometimes sell their babies.
Most of their economic activity is based on crime, and their directly connected to cops, politicians or generally people of power who use them.
There are guns in almost every house.
Their crimes go unpunished, since they dont have IDs (at least most of them, they dont want to get one and you cant force them), they dont pay taxes, they dont use tickets they generally abuse the system.
Many of them have huge amounts of money in their houses or their belongings are worth of hundrends of thousands of euros.
We weren't able to find a proper solution, due to their lifestyle. It's not that people/countries/welfare system don't want to help them, its their own choice of living like that and they dont want to change.
Another very astonishing find was that many gypsy people who actually study or want to integrate to society face racism from their own families! They become outcasts from their own families!
Οur university project ended, when in one visit 4-5 armed boys (no more than 14 or 15 y/o) tried to rob us at 12:00 in the morning with two ak 47s and some knives... Good thing the priest was constantly with us.
On September 28 2011 05:46 Medrea wrote: Holy fuck some of the people in this thread have serious racism issues. Where the fuck did some of you people come from and how can I send you back?
On September 28 2011 05:46 Medrea wrote: Holy fuck some of the people in this thread have serious racism issues. Where the fuck did some of you people come from and how can I send you back?