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UchihaAndy
Sweden15 Posts
Tried this three times on Xel´Naga. You were right in saying that a Blink push is very hard to defend, especially on a map like that. I lost all three games, but it was very close. I dont think it was the strat that made me lose but rather my execution. | ||
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Lobber
Canada414 Posts
Defiantly looking to try more FE style builds with this new patch. | ||
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Fairwell
Austria195 Posts
On September 21 2011 19:25 Lobber wrote: I still like to do a Huk PvT 23 food expo. Are you talking about his 20 food PvT expo version he did for quite a while (lately i've seen him switch it up a bit because 2rax mit scvs + bunkers had been troublesome partly). So you get a nexus, 3 more gates, all cb on nexus and then warp in 4 more stalkers making it 5 at the 5:40min mark? Why is it 23 food, what is the 21st probe for? (I assume one to start ninja expo, 16 on minerals, 3 on gas and one to fake push to xel nagas/his base to fake a 4gate on your own). | ||
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Lobber
Canada414 Posts
On September 21 2011 23:36 Fairwell wrote: Are you talking about his 20 food PvT expo version he did for quite a while (lately i've seen him switch it up a bit because 2rax mit scvs + bunkers had been troublesome partly). So you get a nexus, 3 more gates, all cb on nexus and then warp in 4 more stalkers making it 5 at the 5:40min mark? Why is it 23 food, what is the 21st probe for? (I assume one to start ninja expo, 16 on minerals, 3 on gas and one to fake push to xel nagas/his base to fake a 4gate on your own). Huh? No, probe to 21, stalker on 21, nexus on 23, 2 gates on 23, stalker on 23, another probe, a proxy pylon and an inbase pylon (really only need one or the other, but if the proxy gets sniped or has to be cancelled it's bad to be so supply blocked. 2 CB on nexus, rest on warpgate. | ||
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Chemist391
United States362 Posts
I've only attempted this build thrice on ladder, but so far my winrate with it is 100%. That's not to say that I didn't make some mistakes... vs Blink/Immo/obs/expand vs Blink/obs/dts/this is messy. vs Blink/immo | ||
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Contractor
United States41 Posts
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Lobber
Canada414 Posts
3 replays Not scouted, huge army, ez win PVP fe 1 4 gated, I cancel, win PvPfe2 4 gated, I don't cancel, I win. PvPfe3 | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
On September 22 2011 15:17 Contractor wrote: LOL. Just did this and my opponent went phoenix!!! But he didn't rage quit like the person vs you. He tried to see if he could win. Sorry for him =X. Nice guide. Good to hear  I feel that this patch will favor robo openings which will in turn make blink openers and blink rushers weaker, which inherently makes stargate openings stronger and more appealing. The more appealing stargate openers become, the better this strategy becomes in the blind coinflipping of builds.. so long as it doesn't get scouted too early  | ||
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TyrantPotato
Australia1541 Posts
however i recommend as you get more replays and what not. you clean up the guide a bit more. make it a bit easier to follow structrue it better. (by that i mean the random bold parts distract from some of what is being said. other then that thank you very much | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
On September 22 2011 15:49 TyrantPotato wrote: brilliant guide thank you. however i recommend as you get more replays and what not. you clean up the guide a bit more. make it a bit easier to follow structrue it better. (by that i mean the random bold parts distract from some of what is being said. other then that thank you very much I've found the bold text helps break away from the bland wall of text style I'm afraid of showing.. it's all for you guys so if people don't like it, it doesn't need to be there I will continue to re-tool it with the new patch; I haven't been using it recently and have been trying out some other things but I will definitely start using it again. | ||
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RisingTide
Australia769 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + CreatorPRIME uses a 1 gate expand in response to a gas steal against ST Ace. Granted Ace played pretty badly, but it's cool to see this build in use in a televised game. | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
On September 22 2011 19:11 RisingTide wrote: GSTL Spoilers + Show Spoiler + CreatorPRIME uses a 1 gate expand in response to a gas steal against ST Ace. Granted Ace played pretty badly, but it's cool to see this build in use in a televised game. Thank you so much for bringing this to my attention! I love moletrap's quote "I wonder if he was trying to make it look like he was 4gating!" after suiciding his probe stalker zealot up the ramp haha. + Show Spoiler + Well, Creator gets way far ahead when he sees the delayed gates at the ramp AND the sentry meaning he can do w/e the hell he wants. That kind of information is HUGE when doing this build. However, he still should have kept stalkers out by his 2nd ramp to prevent the probe scout at 6:00. It might tip your expo, but it also might just look like you're going for a defensive posture and waiting on blink, though it might not be as convincing after you get your gas stolen. You'll see that Creator adds a pylon before the nexus because he felt safe enough to add more probes after 26 food and before the nexus because of the information he got with his zealot stalker poke. That probe scout actually came all the way from Ace's base and there is no reason not to keep stalkers outside his base at that timing as there is no way Ace can have blink. The game pretty much ended when the DTs did no damage but Creator was playing pretty greedy having not seen an expansion from ace and going up to 40 probes, anyway. Ideally I think Ace needed to expand either when he saw the expansion or when the dts did no damage and still go for charge but not warp in any more DTs for archons until he got his expo up or if Creator was attacking and he had extra gas. | ||
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Skyro
United States1823 Posts
On September 22 2011 19:11 RisingTide wrote: GSTL Spoilers + Show Spoiler + CreatorPRIME uses a 1 gate expand in response to a gas steal against ST Ace. Granted Ace played pretty badly, but it's cool to see this build in use in a televised game. Yeah I've found expanding as a response to a gas steal to be pretty good since usually your opponent does it with the intention to be ahead on gas (and thus tech) and/or force a 4-gate reaction that they are prepared for. This means he is likely to get his 2nd gas himself and is actually 150 minerals behind you (plus the fact probes will be mining gas instead of minerals) and this allows you to safely get your expo up. | ||
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biteMe
Germany241 Posts
playing random race, i ve been having some probs with protoss lately not going for 4gate anymore and this is a very nice practice build. still im missing an answer to the dt rush. maybe its just because of me playing in diamond but why wouldnt a master protoss play a greedy dt rush build in pvp? | ||
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Ruscour
5233 Posts
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
On September 23 2011 06:52 Ruscour wrote: Hey Alej, any chance you could write some sort of primer on post-patch PvP? I (hope) it's not just me that's having a lot of trouble right now trying to figure out how to play the matchup when 4gate can't kill you on one base. Haha I wish I could help you out right now. I'm still trying to figure it out myself at the moment. It will be a while til I can figure out a new style that harnesses the power of the new anti-blink immortal without being too safe (and thus not greedy). Robo builds that cut colossus to attack when they scout you 1gate fe are stronger now so it's another thing that it used to lolol all over that you really have to take seriously now. I'll update OP or make another guide when I find what I'm looking for. Sorry! | ||
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
Not saying that 2 games means much, but it's worth remembering that robo openings are stronger now. | ||
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blabber
United States4448 Posts
On September 24 2011 05:07 kcdc wrote: I played twice against this today while going robo. You have to remember that since it's easier to defend 4 gate, robo builds are now more efficient. In both games, I responded by counter-expanding while pressing my tech advantage for free kills that more than made up for his econ advantage with the earlier nexus. Not saying that 2 games means much, but it's worth remembering that robo openings are stronger now. depends on what the other protoss gets. If he's making a good number of stalkers, yes your immortal army will allow you to do damage and get free kills. But if he's just massing zealots with sentries, i don't see you doing that much damage to him if i'm playing defensive (like after expanding) and i see the other protoss has immortal tech and will likely be aggressive, my reaction would not be... "make stalkers." anyways regarding 1gate expo, it is viable vs anything non "balls" 4-gate. I remember before balls 4-gate became popular it was mainly Minigun that would do the 1gate expo vs me. I also remember a game vs Whiplash where we both went 1gate expo and we just turtled until we were both 200/200 lol | ||
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
On September 24 2011 05:15 blabber wrote: depends on what the other protoss gets. If he's making a good number of stalkers, yes your immortal army will allow you to do damage and get free kills. But if he's just massing zealots with sentries, i don't see you doing that much damage to him if i'm playing defensive (like after expanding) and i see the other protoss has immortal tech and will likely be aggressive, my reaction would not be... "make stalkers." anyways regarding 1gate expo, it is viable vs anything non "balls" 4-gate. I remember before balls 4-gate became popular it was mainly Minigun that would do the 1gate expo vs me. I also remember a game vs Whiplash where we both went 1gate expo and we just turtled until we were both 200/200 lol I teched straight to colossi off of 2 gates and abused FF's + burst damage to score free kills before he had any way to deal with the FF's. Not saying it will always work like that. But more efficient robo openings will be something to watch for after 1.4. | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
On September 24 2011 05:29 kcdc wrote: I teched straight to colossi off of 2 gates and abused FF's + burst damage to score free kills before he had any way to deal with the FF's. Not saying it will always work like that. But more efficient robo openings will be something to watch for after 1.4. This is true. The way I would deal with 1 base robo pre patch would be to harass extensively with blink and really get in his face when he would try to move out for his timing and I could delay the push up to 3-4 minutes. With the stronger immortal, you really can't harass the push indefinitely if they keep the immortal in front without taking a decent amount of damage (and of course you're not able to do as much free damage per blink away) | ||
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