|
On August 27 2011 17:24 Deezl wrote:
This guide is a really good and fleshed out, so thanks for that. Its potentially the strongest way to win vs. 3gate robo PvP; just run it over with upgraded tier 2 and dont attack into a choke.
There's a part that I disagree with, though; where you say if you scout xxx you delay your expansion. I dont think you can. This build works because you can overcome your 400 mineral detriment by mining from your second base by the time a 2gas tech push hits. You do this by:
Feigning 4-gate
Mining from expo ASAP
Delaying any push or timing however you can
If anything 'delays' your nexus, making it leaves you vulnerable to the normal timings that occur from blink and robo. Instead, just make a few extra probes and transition into a robust 1
-base blinkstalker or roblink build, which should hold 4gate and put you slightly ahead in workers and tech.
Yeah I've never delayed the nexus on purpose. The only delay I was talking about is waiting until you have extracted all of the info before you make your decision.
|
On August 27 2011 01:57 Skyro wrote:
Do you always tend to transition into Blink after you expand? I've had a lot of success going Robo after my 3rd Gate so that I can squeeze out an Immortal vs Blink pushes, whereas I see myself having a lot of issues holding a Blink push if I went for Blink myself since they'll hit a timing where they have it and I don't. I could also go Forge + cannons but going Robo seems much more robust. IMO a well-timed Blink push is the hardest to hold for this build, assuming you scouted properly.
Yeah blink is pretty much the only way. I don't see how you could afford to get immortals in time for a delayed 4 gate or a blink stalker rush while still having enough gateway units to support.
|
have you ever faced a warpprism dt after the expo is scouted? I can see that being a problem for the main base as there are no cannons there...hummm this is totally theorycraftin lol
|
I want to note that this build is a result of the general fact that going for Forge and cannons instead of a lot of gates holds off many gateway based timing attacks. You can use a forge with a variety of styles to hold of early aggression, in addition to fast expanding. I personally like to go 1gateway, 1 stargate, 1 forge, and get a lot of phoenix. If you see him going for gates you get cannons early. its pretty effective if you know your timings.
|
Yay thank you so much. Laddering has been getting a little boring for me lately (I'm only Diamond though) and this will be something new to try out. PvP used to be one of my best MU's but lately I've been losing more and a change of pace sounds nice to the early robo builds I have been using.
|
On August 28 2011 07:00 Cloudshade wrote:
have you ever faced a warpprism dt after the expo is scouted? I can see that being a problem for the main base as there are no cannons there...hummm this is totally theorycraftin lol
When I get a forge with this build and scout a passive player with not that many sentries yes I get a forge in my main min line
edit: played a game vs jf and got a cannon in mine line. If theres no pressure you should assume dt or robo. robo will have at least a sentry so they don't die to delayed 4gate. might as well get a cannon in main min line just in case
|
http://sc2bc.com/download/451
vs ???
If you don't see blink and can't confirm robo and you don't see a relatively quick expand (timing of 3g expand, 3g robo expand and you can pretty much rule out colossus expand because you can't confirm robo) I recommend getting a cannon in your main mineral line for the possibility of dt drop or phoenix play. Phoenix play really isn't scary if you open this way because you are SOOOOOO far ahead if they open air with no expansion so it's really just for dt drop.
Against late game colossus armies, I don't recommend transitioning into colossus though that might be alright; haven't had enough games like that though. If you find that your chargelot/archon army with some blink stalkers can't kill his army straight up because of the terrain of certain maps bolstering the strength of colossi, I recommend getting void rays to deal with them. The only way he can fight your void rays is with stalkers, and a decent amount of void rays with chargelot/archon support is extremely good against colossus/WG armies as you can see from this replay.
|
First thought when i read the title "that man must be absolutely insane" second thought after done reading, "that's pretty sexy"
|
|
|
Why doesn't this build achive more attention? :O Seems like a quite intresting build, however hard to learn.
|
On August 26 2011 07:49 Alejandrisha wrote:
I've never seen ANYONE fake a 21st probe and then cancel it. It can still mean a non-balls 4gate, so you need to be careful still.
[/b]
I fake probe production every time I 4 gate. I start the probe and cancel it at the last second until I can deny scouting. It costs 12 minerals a pop, but all they see is a constantly active nexus. Encouraging them to lower their guard is well worth the 24 minerals spent. Hats off to my opponent if they're constantly watching the nexus and can tell that nothing is coming out.
|
On September 21 2011 04:37 kcdc wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2011 07:49 Alejandrisha wrote:
I've never seen ANYONE fake a 21st probe and then cancel it. It can still mean a non-balls 4gate, so you need to be careful still.
I fake probe production every time I 4 gate. I start the probe and cancel it at the last second until I can deny scouting. It costs 12 minerals a pop, but all they see is a constantly active nexus. Encouraging them to lower their guard is well worth the 24 minerals spent. Hats off to my opponent if they're constantly watching the nexus and can tell that nothing is coming out. [/b]
Er you get a full refund for cancelling a unit. You even get the full refund if the building was destroyed while the unit was in production. It's only cancelling buildings where you get the 75% refund.
|
On September 21 2011 03:58 Neneu wrote:
Why doesn't this build achive more attention? :O Seems like a quite intresting build, however hard to learn.
Because it's risky against most of the popular PvP builds out there (4 gate, blink).
|
Yeah I haven't been updating this OP/thread for a while because I've been losing to Time's 3gate pressure build every time we've done it which has shaken my confidence greatly. Turns out it is more of a coinflip than I had originally thought; This build is not so bad against blink builds and will only get much stronger against them after the patch, so I have hope yet; also I think that with blink builds being less common post patch, we will see more stargate builds which also makes this stronger. IDK yet, though.
|
On September 21 2011 05:12 Alejandrisha wrote:
Yeah I haven't been updating this OP/thread for a while because I've been losing to Time's 3gate pressure build every time we've done it which has shaken my confidence greatly. Turns out it is more of a coinflip than I had originally thought; This build is not so bad against blink builds and will only get much stronger against them after the patch, so I have hope yet; also I think that with blink builds being less common post patch, we will see more stargate builds which also makes this stronger. IDK yet, though.
Care to elaborate or have some replays to share? Curious what exactly it is about 3-gate pressure that is breaking you.
|
Thank you so much for this and i will be trying it out soon. Though right now some many people are just being so greedy that many times i can just 4 gate and win. Currently I am doing what I call the TL or Hero PvP which is the 3(or 4) gate blink robo build. But I am glad that with this I will have a little more freedom to do other things cause I have been doing the same build in PvP for like 2 months now and want something new.
P.S. Thanks Alejandrisha for all the help you give the Toss community I greatly appreciate it. Cecil you also 
|
On September 21 2011 05:31 Skyro wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 05:12 Alejandrisha wrote:
Yeah I haven't been updating this OP/thread for a while because I've been losing to Time's 3gate pressure build every time we've done it which has shaken my confidence greatly. Turns out it is more of a coinflip than I had originally thought; This build is not so bad against blink builds and will only get much stronger against them after the patch, so I have hope yet; also I think that with blink builds being less common post patch, we will see more stargate builds which also makes this stronger. IDK yet, though. Care to elaborate or have some replays to share? Curious what exactly it is about 3-gate pressure that is breaking you.
Comes at 4gate timing but instead of getting 3 more gates you get 2 more gates, a gas and a faster 3rd pylon in your base.. though I'm not 100% sure how I feel about where/when the 3rd pylon should go.
|
|
|
How does this face up against a 3 stalker opening into anything aggressive (blink or 4g specifically)? Seems like you're forcing them into a defensive posture with your early zealot/probe/stalker move-out, but the 3 stalker opening is designed to kill this early move-out and even if you skip probes 21 and 22 to get the 2nd stalker, 3 stalkers will still win against 2 stalkers and 1 zealot.
|
On September 21 2011 06:15 the p00n wrote:
How does this face up against a 3 stalker opening into anything aggressive (blink or 4g specifically)? Seems like you're forcing them into a defensive posture with your early zealot/probe/stalker move-out, but the 3 stalker opening is designed to kill this early move-out and even if you skip probes 21 and 22 to get the 2nd stalker, 3 stalkers will still win against 2 stalkers and 1 zealot.
Yeah I like this vs a 3 stalker rush because you can repel all three with warpin before they get to your ramp and the only way they would push the issue is if they were 4 gating behind it and this build will net you enough to units to at least fight to force a farther proxy pylon. Since you can scout 3 stalker rush before your probe leaves, you should be very hesitant as to how far you send your initial zealot as it's going to die no matter what if he catches them in the middle of the map which usually leads to them being a bit more aggressive with those stalkers, at least in a scouting sense.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
