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On September 05 2011 17:25 DreamRaider wrote: how does ghost sniper work on scv? Scv are mechanical units and snipe only works on biological You can snipe SCVs
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On September 05 2011 11:51 GeisArchrion wrote: Thanks for sharing this Zoia. I like you have been fascinated by the ghost and i've been using them in TvT particularly for a number of months now. My ghost play has always been marine ghost really, which has been fantastic against openers like hellions, banshee, marine rush or just MMM. The build wasn't very successful against early tanks or even just a couple of bunkers however, and nukes didn't always solve the problem.
This build though packs much more of a punch with being marauder heavy, so tanks and bunkers are no longer a problem with the ghosts still working wonders against hellions banshees and marines. I think this build really suits the style i'm comfortable playing. I'm only plat but I can snipe pretty well, so the deciding factor is more to do with macro and being able to keep up production during all the micro.
I'll let you know of a couple of games I tried:
After some practise I played a Terran on the ladder and the build was pretty succesful. He reaper expanded, but luckily i was able to snipe the reaper with my own before he got into my base. He then got about 4 tanks and a bunker at his cliff but I was able to drop a nice nuke on the edge, and snipe all the marines he sent to try and take out the ghost. Cleaning the rest of his army was quite easy, I sniped all his scv's, however somehow I couldn't finish him right away, he had medivacs and was able to keep some of his units alive enough to drop my mineral lines frequently. I won in the end but I was certain I had won at about the 10 minute mark.
I then practised against a team mate who is in Diamond now. He commonly opens with banshee in TvT's, I probably could have used this bit of metagame to my advantage but I wanted to make sure by scouting. Unfortunately he spotted my reaper and was able to deny scouting to his base, meaning I missed the tech starport. Either way I expected he might go banshees so I had a ghost academy down in time. The issue was after building the extra 4 reapers I started building marauders. When I sent the next lot of reapers i saw his starport, but by then it was too late, since his banshee was already in my base killing workers and I had no ghosts out. By the time I had 2 ghosts I had probably lost a 3rd of my scv's, which left me behind the entire game. I think if I had the two ghosts before the banshee arrived I might have won quite confidently against the rest of his build.
I'm trying to fix the timing of the ghosts when it comes to banshees, since it takes so long for ghosts to come out.
I was wondering what your thinking was on the matter. If I see a starport should I build ghosts after reapers immediately? If so could this delay marauder production or the expansion longer than intended?
Another thing is that 3 reapers is the magic number to 1 shot scv's. So 5 reapers is a confusing number to attack with. Any reason for 5? or was this just a good size to go with in case a couple die?
Good luck with improving the build further.
Idk why I did 5 reapers just something I would do I'll try out just 3 and see how well it goes. If i see a quick banshee build I get the 2 ghost asap
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I just played vs this build on ladder. I did 1 rax fe into 3 rax fast combat shield and crushed it. I'm sure that my opponent didn't play it perfectly and whatnot, but it didn't seem like there was a point where his reapers really had a chance to do damage to me and after that it was a pretty straightforward game.
I'm a ~700 points masters terran. Here's the rep: http://drop.sc/32296
edit: drop.sc doesn't seem to be working so here's another link to the same rep: http://www.sc-replay.com/replay/05-09-11/205764-NMxeieio-VS-Ponyo.html?justUp=1
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Just used this on a few custom 1v1's and ladder games. So far out of 8 TvT's, I won 7 using this build with most games ending on the first push. Had a few end immediately after my 4-5 reapers destroyed 5-7 scv's and their counter attack was stopped with the marauders / ghosts I had macro built during the reaper attack. All opponents were diamond ~ master level.
The rank 5 master terran I did this on, reacted just as the OP stated, my opening reapers only killed 3-4 scvs / delayed his CC and tech lab on Factory. He immediately counter attacked with 4 marine 2 helion drop which my 2 marauders and 1 ghost I had built easily stopped. After which his banshee hit my base about 45-50sec later and I already had 3 ghosts by then. Then just build up to 8 marauders and 2 more ghosts and pushed his ramp. He had 1 bunker 6 marines 2 helions and 2 banshees at the front. Just like the OP stated, I sniped the repairing scvs and marines while stimmed marauders destroyed the bunker and helions and 5 ghosts > 2 banshee's thus leading to the GG.
The only game I lost so far was against a diamond terran who opened with Pride's 3 reaper rush and got to my base with 3 reapers vs my 2 and he scouted my ghost acadamy and immediately went 2 port banshee. His banshee numbers got too high and forced me to GG
I would say overall this build is very solid against most T openings and its very fun to play since its not the norm. Anyways thanks OP for this fun build
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On September 05 2011 20:50 eieio wrote:I just played vs this build on ladder. I did 1 rax fe into 3 rax fast combat shield and crushed it. I'm sure that my opponent didn't play it perfectly and whatnot, but it didn't seem like there was a point where his reapers really had a chance to do damage to me and after that it was a pretty straightforward game. I'm a ~700 points masters terran. Here's the rep: http://drop.sc/32296edit: drop.sc doesn't seem to be working so here's another link to the same rep: http://www.sc-replay.com/replay/05-09-11/205764-NMxeieio-VS-Ponyo.html?justUp=1 Ah yeah, the combat shield + medivacs would be strong against any sniping so I can see how you were able to win that one. From looking at it I think he missed his chance to bust in with a push and snipe before any medivacs were out, also he didn't get a chance to harrass the worker line so your economy got quite a bit ahead as well.
Combat shield is something to watch out for I guess, unless the reapers can snipe the tech lab perhaps.
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On September 05 2011 17:25 DreamRaider wrote: how does ghost sniper work on scv? Scv are mechanical units and snipe only works on biological
SCVs count both as biological and mechanical. Hence why they can repair each other and get healed from medivacs.
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After watching this build its pretty sick! Really impressive, vs Iechoic i see that massing ghost would be a problem, Although since your get a factory straight after expand and if scout the 2 port react hellion rush 2 thor and that just counters it hard, if you read the echoic posts he even says that thor just all out counter to this until BC'S come out ( just push and win before they come as there build time is ridiculously long)
EDIT- Any long macro game replays please? Would be good to see how you transition if the push fails!
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Zoia, I think alot of people just don't understand how effective this build is, because they don't look at it from both sides. Most people when they scout your base with the scv, they will assume oh reaper FE (because thats the norm if you see a tech lab on the rax immidiately after 1 marine). Now if I was the person that scouted the Techlab, I would go ok time to punish his FE by either helion drop or banshees. Normally I wouldn't go OH TANK RUSH ! or 3 Rax combat shield push ! because normally a 1 Rax FE reaper would have a bunker at his ramp and usually a factory (to get tanks/helions) right after the CC is put down. And your build directly counters the normal reaction to a 1rax techlab.
Most people don't want to deviate from the norm, and probably don't want a build that counters the norm to become popular, thus all the negative criticism.
The majority of the diamond / master lvl players I did this on, reacted just like you stated in your post, usually going for some type of helion / banshee harass into Expand.
Also the reapers don't even have to be that effective to win the game, you can kill only a few scvs with your reapers, and it will provoke an immediate response / counter attack with helion/marine drop or banshee, and then you get to make them go surprise face when they see you have ghosts and marauders.
Your build is very effective, the negative critics just can't think outside the box
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This build looks cool, I'll definitely give it a go! :D I like more unorthodox builds, I had great fun with the iEchoic hellion/banshee build for a while, this looks like it'll be a lot of fun too! I tend to suck at using most standard TvT builds for some reason, and I really don't enjoy doing them, gets pretty boring..It makes me really hate the matchup sometimes
Thanks dude!
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Here is a transition replay: http://replayfu.com/download/qKLLxc
Youll need to fast forward to the second match since its a 1v1 obs game.
@eieio That may have been the build but it was executed rather poorly. At the 9 minute mark he has 3 Marauders and 3 ghosts. Usually I will have 3 ghosts and 6 marauders at that point and Im only gold. Basically this is the army composition:
4 Marauders, 14 marines (you) 3 Ghosts (9 snipes), 3 Marauders, 5 Reapers (him)
He also made a late transition to tanks which is IMO a bad idea. If anything this transitions best into heavy bio play and late mech play.
edit: fixed link
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On September 06 2011 01:52 jazzman wrote:Here is a transition replay: http://replayfu.com/r/qKLLxcYoull need to fast forward to the second match since its a 1v1 obs game. @eieio That may have been the build but it was executed rather poorly. At the 9 minute mark he has 3 Marauders and 3 ghosts. Usually I will have 3 ghosts and 6 marauders at that point and Im only gold. Basically this is the army composition: 4 Marauders, 14 marines (you) 3 Ghosts (9 snipes), 3 Marauders, 5 Reapers (him) He also made a late transition to tanks which is IMO a bad idea. If anything this transitions best into heavy bio play and late mech play. Replay link is dead
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Cheers
Also under counters to this build is turtle siege tank, anyone tried snipping the tech-labs on the factory when u go in with the 4 reapers? 2 shot it and the tanks delayed quite a bit ! making your push basically easy win?
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Surprise when i saw a player doing that against me, in fact, i made this BO. Nothing to add.
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On September 06 2011 02:47 VirusSonG wrote: Surprise when i saw a player doing that against me, in fact, i made this BO. Nothing to add. NO WAI I DID IT FURST!
I like the logical response about your opponents reaction while scouting. Makes a lot of sense. Course, the jig is up if they Reaper Expand and you don't catch it with your own SCV for some reason, otherwise its too late.
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thanks for all the input and support guys!
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Awesome build, I've been looking for a way to move away from siege tanks. Do you have any replays of you losing to the iechoic style? Also, keep in mind that if you do find a way to deal with the high amount of banshees while keeping the core of ghost marauder, the eventual transition for the build it to tech to battle cruisers. Making ghosts basically useless against air.
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On September 06 2011 03:59 Zoia wrote: thanks for all the input and support guys!
Hi Zoia, i've been practising this build a lot and even though i lost 4-5 times at first, i've ironed out some kinks and started winning with it. have won 3 times so far.
Played a ladder game earlier where I won with this strat and my opponent was streaming so you can see how it went if you're interested :D
http://www.twitch.tv/vondarkmore/b/294392998
fast forward to 46:08
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On September 06 2011 10:44 E.H Eager wrote: Awesome build, I've been looking for a way to move away from siege tanks. Do you have any replays of you losing to the iechoic style? Also, keep in mind that if you do find a way to deal with the high amount of banshees while keeping the core of ghost marauder, the eventual transition for the build it to tech to battle cruisers. Making ghosts basically useless against air.
I reckon after a factory you could reactor out medivacs and vikings. I dunno how efficient this is cost wise but I think that's what you'd want to aim for against mass banshee and BC's if need be.
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Hey Zoia thanks for the video you put up explaining this build, really appreciate the time and effort you put into it. Going to try this tonight.
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