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On September 08 2011 10:37 Shootemup. wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2011 07:14 Zoia wrote:On September 08 2011 03:02 Shootemup. wrote:On September 07 2011 21:49 Zoia wrote:
Sorry but iEchoic loses to thor rush It is very possible to hold, but your build is hardly a Thor rush, and Thors coming off of your build are going to be very late and easy to hold using the iEchoic Sky Terran style. As outlined in his thread, the best solution is to use all your scvs and units to take down the Thor, since the repairing SCVs on the Thor have the same priority, they will help take down SCVs and they and the rest of your units can take down the Thor. Okay my build vs Iechoic against a thor rush Iechoic - Thors > banshees Thors > hellions My build - Ghost > repairing SCVs Maruader > thor What exactly is your point? Your build hardcounters a rarely used TvT build, and the iEchoic style is quite capable of holding a Thor rush. Also, if we are comparing styles, the iEchoic is much more suited for the midgame, as it easily transitions to a really strong lategame style and gets a lot of really useful tech which allows you to play a macro game quite easily. Your build is a very allin 1 base bio build that has a strong first attack, but good players are going to hold your attack and at that point you are in trouble as your tech is very lacking as is your economy as you don't expand till 10 minutes.
Some guy said Iechoic was good vs thor rush and mine wasn't I was pointing out that he was wrong
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I find by transitioning into nuke by going:
3rd ghost in prod,
Build fact
4th ghost begins just as factory is up and begin nuke while moving out
I am able to reach their base with at most 2 depots & bunker backed by two siege tanks.
By nuking in a position where the marines must move around the ramp, I buy enough time to either force unseige which is cleaned up by stimming in and target firing the tanks & sniping the marines OR the nuke lands, wiping the units out with rage quit.
*replay included later.
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I tried your build several time and it work great. I'm only a gold terran player but i beat diamand players and destroy a master at the first push and then lose in macro game. But cos i'm bad, you know.
With more practice in the transition, it will be imba in my league ^^
So thanks for your guide.
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This build is pretty effective like any other terran all in.
Thank you for sharing  . Another strat for the repertory
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This build is mounds of fun!
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On September 09 2011 02:14 Darkkak wrote:
I tried your build several time and it work great. I'm only a gold terran player but i beat diamand players and destroy a master at the first push and then lose in macro game. But cos i'm bad, you know.
With more practice in the transition, it will be imba in my league ^^
So thanks for your guide.
I'm glad you've enjoyed it! I've received lots of positive feedback on this build so I'm going to try and create more creative builds for you guys on TL!
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Zoia,
I really enjoy this build because, above all, it's fun. However I consistently lose to the same thing... I do damage with the opening and the follow up and I'm ahead. Then he hits with a couple of tanks and medivacs and a sh*t load of marines as basically an all-in and I can't hold.
Anyway I'm only a gold level player - would love to improve + appreciate my macro/micro aren't a patch on yours but if you (or any other kind soul) could have a look at this and give me some pointers I'd appreciate it.
Thanks
Terrantosaur
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/13304
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When using this particular build (I'm about 500-ish master), more and more lately it's been losing its hold to 3rax bio pushes, which normally wouldn't be an issue except that they can produce so many more units since you're tied up in ghosts.
However, I've even gone against foes who will go for the fast hellions/banshee and even after mopping them up by the time I'm ready to push they still have tanks and endless marines, and I start to feel like this build has really just lost viability as since the bfh nerf Terrans are less inclined to just mass up hellions and dump their gas into banshees. I'll try to get some replays up but I feel like I pretty much just get guaranteed to be all-inned as soon as my push fails even after I take out all of his harass, even if my reapers manage to take out 3+ workers.
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Would this opening be viable against protoss ?
I think Emp would be good against all gateway unit and if he's heavy on zealot snipe would be great...
Marauder would take care of stalkers.
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I was curious about how this matched up specifically against a gas-first banshee opener, and here is what I found.
In the replays you showed, you could cut Reapers at about 3 produced and instantly begin building ghosts, getting you some ghosts around the 6:30 mark. You CAN scout the gas first easily with your initial reaper scout, so if you keep that alive you can ascertain if you're dealing with gas first banshee or something else. A gas first banshee timing will get the banshee out (at his base) at around 6:10, maybe a couple seconds earlier, and if you add in flight time the banshee will reach your base at some point between 6:25 and 6:50 depending on map and positions.
I like this build order because of the flexibility that your building choice and scouting gives you. You can transition into other builds from your early game building composition (scoutable) and once you've committed to ghosts you still have choice in what comes out of your barracks, greatly varying your options.
Good job, but you had better fully refine this build order and its transitions before someone else does and claims it from you.
edit: basing banshee timings off of this thread -- specifically darkone vs reverie : http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=232194
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Been having a great deal of fun and success with this vT and vP... in 2v2. =p
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Hi, without having read most of the posts etc. I'm already very excited about this style. But I wondered about the following:
On September 04 2011 15:19 Zoia wrote:
What it is weak against
IEchoic 2fact2port
If I remember correctly there was a post about a Reaper Rush that is able to beat iEchoic/early Banshees and I have tried that myself. iEchoic style has a lot of difficulties with early and consistent reaper pressure since Hellions die to Reapers 1v1 and iEchoic doesn't focus on many Hellions early but, stronger Hellions somewhat later. Although you probably need to get turrets to defend vs the Banshee(s), you can kill their Hellions and harass them, thus pinning them down. So the advice vs iEchoic "put turrets up and expand" is reasonable, but I wouldn't say it's broken, you just need to try to send the reapers earlier and pressure a lot.
I think it was http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=235989 but I'm not sure, since the op doesn't state it's strong vs iEchoic.
Sorry for just suggesting this without considering what it does to your opener, but I think from the Reaper pressure the transition to this 3 Rax Ghost/Marauder style should be straight forward.
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On September 26 2011 21:43 Nathanias wrote:
When using this particular build (I'm about 500-ish master), more and more lately it's been losing its hold to 3rax bio pushes, which normally wouldn't be an issue except that they can produce so many more units since you're tied up in ghosts.
[...] by the time I'm ready to push they still have tanks and endless marines [...]
Wouldn't earlier and less Reapers like in the thread I provided together with a bunker postpone/neutralise the bio threat?
Besides, bio is just one of the builds you might be up against, so you might create a viable hold while being strong against the others, no?
What's the time you're ready to push? He should either have less Marines/defense early or less Tanks or something later, if it is plain Marine/Tank.
The style might still be viable in my eyes.
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On September 04 2011 17:19 Zoia wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2011 16:02 Pillage wrote:
Wouldn't this build lose outright to mass, marine heavy bio? I realize ghosts are good against light units and that reapers do pretty well against them too, but your barracks production time is tied up extremely long building ghosts + reapers, so I would think you could just be run over by a big bio ball since you have 0 tanks. I'd like to see some reps where you lose with this, just so we can pin down its weaknesses. How often do you play against someone who is going pure marine right off the bat especially when players are going hellions all the damn time. Even if they do you would scout it with your reaper and you can just bunker up. I've had to do it once and it really wasn't that big of a deal. You'll hold and it'll end up being more all in than what you are doing. I'll dig up some of the replays and add them
Because marines counter hellions? They shouldn't, but they do. Stimmed marines melt hellions much casters than bfh do marines. Pure marine is actually really common now in Tvt, adding tanks when taking third.
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vs iechoic style, could you not try put down 2 reactor ports and get air superiority?
pure vikings, although i guess this would cut into your ghost count.
then again, ghosts wouldnt be as important since you cant snipe hellions.
so maybe transition straight into marauder viking?
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Walker Vikings do strangely well against hellions. Their size actually works to their advantage in this case.
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"I'm Master league I'm Master league"
Calm down I was top 50 GM league and I've microed FAR worse than this. I like the guide, but this build just doesn't really have potential. This is a gimmicky one in a while build at best, and pretty much relies on surprising the opponent. Just one step above cheese.
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On November 06 2011 15:51 ZiegFeld wrote:
"I'm Master league I'm Master league"
Calm down I was top 50 GM league and I've microed FAR worse than this. I like the guide, but this build just doesn't really have potential. This is a gimmicky one in a while build at best, and pretty much relies on surprising the opponent. Just one step above cheese.
By GM you meant "Grannies Master" dint ya ?  You obviously didnt even try this thing and you are just throwing shit at it.
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On November 06 2011 16:18 YosHGo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2011 15:51 ZiegFeld wrote:
"I'm Master league I'm Master league"
Calm down I was top 50 GM league and I've microed FAR worse than this. I like the guide, but this build just doesn't really have potential. This is a gimmicky one in a while build at best, and pretty much relies on surprising the opponent. Just one step above cheese. By GM you meant "Grannies Master" dint ya ? You obviously didnt even try this thing and you are just throwing shit at it. Nope, it is what it is. Gimmicky with no real potential like the iEchoic build.
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EPT
