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Poll: What should we do with players who using discriminatory languageDo nothing.--It's not an issue. (456) 72% Tell them to stop, and report them if they don't. (58) 9% Do nothing.--It's Blizzard's problem. (38) 6% Ban them only if they don't stop after repeatedly warnings. (27) 4% Shun them online and block them from communication. (25) 4% Ban them outright. (19) 3% Tarnish their good name online wherever you can. (5) 1% Tell them to stop repeatedly, but nothing else. (3) 0% Tell them to stop, and get others to harass them if they don't. (3) 0% 634 total votes Your vote: What should we do with players who using discriminatory language (Vote): Do nothing.--It's Blizzard's problem.
(Vote): Do nothing.--It's not an issue.
(Vote): Tell them to stop repeatedly, but nothing else.
(Vote): Tell them to stop, and report them if they don't.
(Vote): Tell them to stop, and get others to harass them if they don't.
(Vote): Shun them online and block them from communication.
(Vote): Ban them outright.
(Vote): Ban them only if they don't stop after repeatedly warnings.
(Vote): Tarnish their good name online wherever you can.
Across online gaming communities people feel that it is okay to use discriminating language to demean other people. Homophobic language is by far the most common but racist and sexist language appears a lot as well. People who use it are explicitly using it with a negative connotation in order to put another player down.--In Starcraft 2 it's often for using a cheese strategy. The way people are using this discriminatory discourse goes beyond smack talk, which I believe is a healthy and fun part of the game. There's a difference between making fun of someone and calling them a "f*cking f*ggot" and other countless examples.
That being said.--
I wonder what people think are the appropriate response by the people in our community.
As a kickoff.--
I believe that people should ask someone to stop using the language and then if they don't should be reported to Blizzard, the forum, or the event coordinator who should warn the player. If the player doesn't stop after the official warning then they should be banned. I think the warning should also explain the rationale behind trying to stamp out discriminatory language--namely to keep the online gaming community a welcoming and safe one for people of all types to enjoy and participate in.
Other answers could be socially stigmatize them, multiple warnings, refusing to play with them (aka shun them), or any other number of solutions.
What are people's thoughts?
Or do people think it's too trivial of an issue to talk about?--From what I've talked with others in game about it seems like the community would like to take action to do something.
Feel free to respond or just vote in my poll.
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It's the internet. Who gets offended by that stuff?
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^this.
You can filter it out if you don't want to see it so what is the problem?
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I think a certain gorilla said something quite fitting when asked why he used the F-word...
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My lay person response:
Why just because it's the Internet should we not care? Is it different than schools, in malls, or other public places? Put another way- Is because it's the Internet we're allowed to do whatever we want and say whatever we want to others?
My academic response:
The more we tolerate things like homophobic discourse the more acceptable it becomes, which lays the foundation for people to use actual violence against people as they take what they learn in online gaming communities into the real world and then act upon that hate. See Judith Butler or Michel Foucault on how normalizing discourses creates a growing impact on communities that ripples out.
The in between response:
If it wasn't on the Internet would it be tolerable or would you say something? If you wouldn't say something, I would argue that the belief that using such language against other people is at the root of discriminatory beliefs. Bottom line, why not try to make our community hate-free and open to people of all kinds... even those who take offense (even if not everyone does take offense).
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This is only a problem, IF you make it your problem.
No one knows who you really are on the internet. UNLESS you let them know.
Your best option, is just make friends with good people, and block the haters.
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In response to filtering:
1) New people joining the community will experience the language before they set the filter.
2) The filter doesn't educate the people using problematic language that they should stop using it.
3) Seeing it with *#!*#* or the actual word is more or less the same.
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On July 12 2011 09:06 sailorferret wrote:
In response to filtering:
1) New people joining the community will experience the language before they set the filter.
2) The filter doesn't educate the people using problematic language that they should stop using it.
3) Seeing it with *#!*#* or the actual word is more or less the same.
actually the filter is on by default.
Just because i call ppl faggots all the time online or not, doesn't make me an homophobic. Its just a curse word.
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@Aruno
If it's only a problem if YOU make it a problem who will speak up for the people who it is a problem for? A problem for one is a problem for a whole community.
First they came for the gays and I did not speak up because I was not gay
Then they came for the jews and I did not speak up because I was not a jew
Then they came for the blacks and I did not speak up because I was not black
Then they came for me and no one was left to speak up
It's a rough quote from a famous poem that I don't have the cite for off hand. But you get the idea.
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Honestly, starcraft has a better online community than most online communities.
Blizzard has no responsibility over it, and honestly I don't think they could realistically do anything about it without a really serious backlash. I agree with the first reply.
First they came for the gays and I did not speak up because I was not gay
Then they came for the jews and I did not speak up because I was not a jew
Then they came for the blacks and I did not speak up because I was not black
Then they came for me and no one was left to speak up
This quote has nothing to do with anything (and it is misquoted anyway). We're talking about the shit people say on the internet. These people cannot touch you or harm you in any way. You are in absolutely no danger.
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As I see the responses come in... I can say I'm a little disheartened at the least that 70% of the people who have voted thus far think it's not an issue.
@DoubleReed- people said that we couldn't ban slavery without a backlash, or that we couldn't eliminate segregation without a backlash... Should fear of a backlash prevent us from trying?
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On July 12 2011 09:12 sailorferret wrote:
As I see the responses come in... I can say I'm a little disheartened at the least that 70% of the people who have voted thus far think it's not an issue.
@DoubleReed- people said that we couldn't ban slavery without a backlash, or that we couldn't eliminate segregation without a backlash... Should fear of a backlash prevent us from trying?
Slavery and Segregation =\= Bad Language.
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The only reason these words and actions are so powerful is because idiots keep getting fucking offended by them. Please, explain to me how the word Niger is just fine, but the moment you add a second squiggle in the middle, it is worth blowing a fit over to the point where people have literally died because of it. This is because PEOPLE give it power. People call it taboo, and evil, and worth getting offended about.
Words are powerful devices. But, like many hundreds of millions of words throughout history, when people stop paying attention to them, they lose their power and their value.
People need to stop giving power to words, because the moment you give power to something as abstract and universal as a word, that power gets abused. Especially by children. They soon realize they possess the capability to wield a word, without possessing the maturity and intellect to understand the consequences or ramifications of that word. All they know is that the word is so damn powerful because people keep getting offended by it!
I have quite a few gay friends who have gotten past the whole "faggot' thing. It is a universal derogative term that can be applied to anything negative. If you are gay and you still haven't realized this, then you best ponder on that. If you aren't gay and are offended by the term on behalf of a friend, then I can guarantee you (from personal experience), that you are more offended than they are. Of course if you are straight and offended yourself by the term, then you should take a good hard look at yourself...
So long story short. STFU and let the world get on with it's life.
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On July 12 2011 09:09 sailorferret wrote:
@Aruno
If it's only a problem if YOU make it a problem who will speak up for the people who it is a problem for? A problem for one is a problem for a whole community.
First they came for the gays and I did not speak up because I was not gay
Then they came for the jews and I did not speak up because I was not a jew
Then they came for the blacks and I did not speak up because I was not black
Then they came for me and no one was left to speak up
It's a rough quote from a famous poem that I don't have the cite for off hand. But you get the idea.
Martin Niemöller and he was a pastor by trade...
And I think it is a wrong picture to paint. People who say "faggot" probably don't mean to insult the gay community - it happens by extension because they don't really now any swear words and when most of us were raised gays were sadly still something which was looked down upon.
I think this is a non-issue and if you ignore it and refrain from getting insulted it will stop working as an insult and people will move on to other silly things to call each other...
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On July 12 2011 09:06 sailorferret wrote:
In response to filtering:
1) New people joining the community will experience the language before they set the filter.
2) The filter doesn't educate the people using problematic language that they should stop using it.
3) Seeing it with *#!*#* or the actual word is more or less the same.
The bolded part in particular scares the crap out of me, for reasons I shouldn't even have to articulate.
Words are an expression of thought. You cannot stop people from thinking. Stop trying.
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DoubleReed you're drawing a false distinction between discourse and reality in my mind. The languages we use often create the realities in which we live. The closeted homosexual living at home playing games online as on outlet to get away from the "real world" to then have to face that harassment there has a tangible impact on that person. The fact that the Internet is not real in my mind is more of a reason why we can work to protect it for people who use it as a way to get away from their problems... to just have fun... and play a game... or even compete.
I'd also say that it becomes much easier for people to do ACTUAL violence and ACTUAL enslavement once people are denied their humanity through discriminatory language. It was okay to enslave people because they were animals, n*ggers, and savages. Germans called jews rats and other demeaning language. And there's significant sociological data showing people who use discriminatory language (especially in relation to homophobia) are more likely to commit actual violence when not dealt with or educated.
Both language and the Internet are not "real" by the certainly have a real effect on reality... just as much as reality has on our language or our gaming communities.
If the Internet can be anything... why not work to make it an inclusive utopia rather than a discriminatory place filled with bigotry and hate?
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Lol destiny style:
Tell them to stop, and get others to harass them if they don't. (0)
Really tho just ignore it...
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On July 12 2011 09:05 sailorferret wrote:
My academic response:
The more we tolerate things like homophobic discourse the more acceptable it becomes, which lays the foundation for people to use actual violence against people as they take what they learn in online gaming communities into the real world and then act upon that hate. See Judith Butler or Michel Foucault on how normalizing discourses creates a growing impact on communities that ripples out.
First, I doubt that is what they are saying. Why? Because these people don't say anything. Well maybe they state something, but cannot argue for it as they find definitions to be too constricting and truths to be inaccessible to the human.
Second, that is a claim they make. It's based on their "perception shapes reality" (precisely not reality shapes perception) and the following "language shapes perception shapes reality".
This though is trivially untrue when talking about objects.
This might have some basis for more abstract things, I can't think of any though. Right now they say that the formerly hate filled "faggot" while being used by a person, still has this "hate" attached and will infect every person that uses the word, thus causing them to discriminate. That is trivially wonky. A machete does not cause every user to hack of limbs.
Instead, it was hate filled, today it is intended as a word of frustration with a person, not even referring to their sexuality anymore, much less the hate that was once attached to it. In conclusion, the meaning of words shifts and it doesn't do anything to the speaker that wasn't there already.
tl;dr: It's the internet. Nobody gets hurt.
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Not an issue. Freedom of speech trumps all. If you don't like it, don't read it. You can ignore, block, filter, whatever. This is no different anywhere else on the internet, people are who they are, and there will always be hate, misunderstood jokes, discrimination, angry people and so on - especially when you can be anonymouse on the internet. It's naive to think you can moderate it on such a large scale as battle.net, and there will never be an agreement to do it in the first place. It's doing no harm apart from hurting your feelings, and only because you let it. Use the filter!
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EPT
