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I do understand your concern for social control and outright censorship.
Three things:
1) You're saying that killing all the gays is a better world than losing the right to say homophobic things... it seems
2) 1984 fears top-down solutions... my proposal is bottom-up from the community itself
3) Language is already being used to debase humanity currently but in a direction that hurts minority populations more than majority populations... so you're argument is (a) non-unique; and (b) answered by the fact that people inevitably try to influence each all the time... the only question is in what direction it goes.
Also, people should read Herbert Marcuse's short article titled "Repressive Tolerance"
http://www.marcuse.org/herbert/pubs/60spubs/65repressivetolerance.htm
The article is very good at explaining how the right to speech is less than the right to life, liberty, or the pursuit of happiness by showing how the right to free speech is a tool used by those in power to maintain power since not everyone has equal access to speech so those in power control the majority of it. Liberal, conservative, irrelevant... bottom-line is that the majority simple has more speaking power than the minority because they have more voices. Democracy was set up to protect against the tyranny of the majority. The question of speech is still a question for democracy and society to deal with. And, of course, there are already limits on speech (can't scream fire in a crowded place) and legislation against hate crime (that combines violent language with violent action)... so you're defense of free speech for free speech is something that most people have already come down against. In short, there needs to be limits on free speech so people can speak freely.
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They have the filter, which is one thing.
If they use the language once, and it has good context or is being used constructively to further a point then go ahead.
However, if they just drop 80 offensive terms on the drop of a hat because speedlings ran into their main, just report and block them. Chances are those people aren't going to agree to stop any which way and they are technically violating EULA (I think, haven't read it).
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Usually the only people who give a shit aren't the people who it SHOULD offend. I hate when people who it shouldn't offend, get offended. If the "discriminated" against party feels offended, then they should be thing ones bitching (sorry to any female dogs out there) about it. Until then, I feel like they don't care, and they shouldn't. No one means to insult gays when they call someone a fag, and I think most gays understand that.
Unless it is directed TO the party (calling a fag a fag) with malicious intent to demean a person for that ACTUAL trait (not because they cheesed, but because they're gay (for example)), then I don't think it's a problem.
I'm kinda chubby. Do I get offended when other people who aren't fat get called fat for, let's say, eating alot? Fuck no.Do I get offended if I shove a whole donut in my mouth at once and someone calls me a fattie? Fuck no. Do I get offended when someone messes around and calls me fat? Fuck no.
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Just popping in again to say I don't really consider this discrimination.
Discrimination in the dictionary is:
treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit
If a random battlenet troll call you a faggot or a jew but doesn't know if you are one or not, its an insult, not discriminaton. Real discrimination is more serious and yes, it should be stamped out wherever it is found.
Finally, since its sort of related, theres a difference between insults and hate speech. Hate speech normally incites a group to do something. i.e. A black radical using a "kill the farmer song" in South Africa.
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Not an issue, plus the use of "faggot" and "nigger" in gaming is a completely different meaning than the norm. They have a different significance. Plus I garuntee you that gamers are easily more left wing (social causes, such as gay marriage, and social equality), than other populations.
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I think there should be SOME sort of repercussion to being an asshole
The most people should do is just flag to Blizzard and let them figure it out.
There's no need to overreact to it though.
Just click that little Report button and move on with their lives.
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If it upsets you, use the filter... It will take all that out, and there is always the freedom of speech issue. Generally, the reasons I can't call you a "if you read spoiler its at your own risk"+ Show Spoiler +nigger/fagget/cocksucker/maid/kitchen whore
I preferably try to be as manner as possible online, everyone seems to be friendly towards me. If someone gets angry and says something, they probably are upset because you won a match and you should just be kind about it, and understanding.
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The idea of "cyberbullying" makes me laugh. It's nothing more than a construct by groups of people seeking power/advantages that they believe they deserve, and that they believe others have (which they usually don't).
Though the OP's opinion is easy to see, he inaccurately calls it "discrimination". Discrimination would imply that you were treated poorly due to a trait or belief. Unless your ID is something like "GayNProud", or something that clearly identifies certain factual traits about you, a kid calling you "faggot" on the internet is just juvenile name-calling/harassment. For the majority of the world, the word doesn't even carry a sexual-preference connotation with it.
The real hypocrisy of the situation is that if you would have been called "fatso", "nerd", "cheeser", "noob", "douche", or even "asshole", the thread wouldn't exist, though the exact same intent and malice would be conveyed.. It's a real shame that there are even such a thing as "protected groups" when it comes to speech. I feel like it's a slippery slope we're already on, and it's only going to be a matter of time before "hatespeak", and the associated punishments of it will apply to people that are really tall, really short, overweight, too skinny, have too round of a head, have eyelashes that aren't very long, or have toe-thumbs, and then we'll also have to give protection to people who are too pretty, and too normal-looking, because they'll be the minority and the only ones without protection from the cruelness and deadliness of anonymous internet smacktalking.
TL;DR - It's the internet, use your filters. If it ruins your day that much, Blizzard has a system in place to deal with it, but don't think you're going to eradicate Bnet's troll infestation..
@Aladdin - Mind explaining to me why it's not taboo to say "serf", then? Does calling someone the N-word really cause that much more pain than calling them "slave"? For me, the country of Niger reminds me of that other word, with the additional G...so we should probably rename that country, right?
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I talk crap simply to get a rise out of people. It's pretty fun sometimes.
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On July 12 2011 09:09 sailorferret wrote:
@Aruno
If it's only a problem if YOU make it a problem who will speak up for the people who it is a problem for? A problem for one is a problem for a whole community.
First they came for the gays and I did not speak up because I was not gay
Then they came for the jews and I did not speak up because I was not a jew
Then they came for the blacks and I did not speak up because I was not black
Then they came for me and no one was left to speak up
It's a rough quote from a famous poem that I don't have the cite for off hand. But you get the idea.
Nobody is coming for anyone. They are just using offensive language.
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Here's a related forum thread:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=240225
It follows whether or not the community should support Reddit given that Reddit endorses child porn and the sexualization of children... and other forms of harassment. People on that thread smee to overwhelmingly say we should not support Reddit because of how it represents our community.
Why is this different? Do you also disagree with the Reddit thread?
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On July 12 2011 10:11 sailorferret wrote:Here's a related forum thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=240225It follows whether or not the community should support Reddit given that Reddit endorses child porn and the sexualization of children... and other forms of harassment. People on that thread smee to overwhelmingly say we should not support Reddit because of how it represents our community. Why is this different? Do you also disagree with the Reddit thread?
That thread is about the sexualization of children. That is different than a kid calling you bad words over the internet.
Child abuse adversely affects a child for the rest of their life. Internet discrimination and name calling won't. Provided they don't have your home address or phone number.
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Yes, Battle.net has a mature language filter. That should be more than enough. If you try to draw an arbitrary line of offensiveness you will just end up with collateral censorship when actually people should be able to say whatever they want with their friends. And in the case that you find your friends offensive, you have to suck it up, talk to them about it, or meet new people just like you would in real life. I pity anyone who wants a game studio to baby them through the internet. Lastly and proverbially: it's not words, it's how you use them.
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as a white male, but thinking from a minority/female perspective, i don't think i would want to play online so much. sure, the starcraft community is a lot better than most gaming communities, a ton better, i admit that. but how many times have i ran into random people on bnet cursing me with racial slurs at the end of ladder games i've just won?
how about joining a mafia game and having someone name themselves a racial slur nearly every single game?
orr... say i meet a player and become friends and start playing alot with them. and one day they're pissed about getting cheesed on ladder and complain to me about *racial slur* *homophobic slur*s? what if i was black or gay? this happens to me all the time, and it's got to be a lot more annoying/awkward for minorities.
and now we have the majority of the community defending professional players who throw around racial slurs.
i mean i think few minorities are seriously offended by this stuff, and it gets old pretty fast, especially for players who are really interested in the game, *hardcore* gamers. but for the casual gamers who pick up the game and experience it, they probably won't keep playing battle.net.
and while fixing the masses on battle.net will never happen, you would think that at least the tl community would understand this plight; and minorities who got this far into the community/game could at least have some solace in the fact that the core community disagrees. however that doesn't seem to be the case.
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Actually, the peripheral problem is something like that there's no private channel moderation in Battle.net right now. The community needs tools to build itself, not condescension from a huge company.
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On July 12 2011 09:32 Aladdin wrote:
Sailorferret don't expect sympathy, compassion or true understanding of the issue of discrimination from white middle class males. They have no concept, truly no concept of what being a minority or being discriminated against feels like and respond with ignorant excuses like "it's the Internet," "I have an [insert minority] friend who is just fine with it" or "people give power to words and the words themselves are powerless." They are totally missing the point in its entirety.
If you allow a climate of intimidation, discrimination and ignorance time to breed, it will overflow from its container and seep into real society.
Your "friend" may not have a problem but neither you or your friend can speak for a whole population of people.
Words have power, we gave them that power and the people who forget why are simply troglodytes. The reason "Thrasymachus725" that it is acceptable to say the country Niger and not the word with an extra G is because it reminds people of a time when they were subhuman, a subclass and slaves.
I think the poster should have realised who he was talking to before posting. Personally if someone uses discriminatory language I troll them for as long as possible, report and then ban.
That is probably the stupidest statement I have ever read... And having corrected high-school kids essays I've read a lot of stupid stuff...
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Awww did some person you've never met call you a bad name over the internet? Poor baby.
This thread's a joke. Grow up.
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None of that is actually discriminatory language, only offensive to some, because they are arbitrarily directed and not targeting any actual group of people based on physical traits or sexual orientation. Faggot on the internet is a stronger word for someone who is lame/annoying, not homosexual.
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Define "discriminatory language"!
If somebody's been raging and something slipped from his mouth, I wouldn't care at all.
If there is a player, who is the head of the local KKK division and talks about extermination of blacks/jews/gays/puppies/etc., he should be banned from the community.
Since the latter doesn't seem to be the case amongst any known sc2 players, I'd suggest people to just stop bothering about what somebody might have said in a moment of anger.
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On July 12 2011 10:11 sailorferret wrote:Here's a related forum thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=240225It follows whether or not the community should support Reddit given that Reddit endorses child porn and the sexualization of children... and other forms of harassment. People on that thread smee to overwhelmingly say we should not support Reddit because of how it represents our community. Why is this different? Do you also disagree with the Reddit thread?
What you just wrote is simply libel. reddit does not "endorse child porn", it simply will not censor anything that isn't illegal. Are there creepy pics of young teen kids in bathing suits? Yeah, probably, as the thread attests to that (I don't go to reddit very often, though I did read that thread..something you obviously didn't do...). But saying that they endorse child pornography is nothing short of a lie. ..And how is this on related/topic?? Child abuse is actually physically and psychological screwing up a kid...talking shit anonymously on the internet is..well..talking shit on the internet..
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EPT
