On July 13 2011 01:19 Mordiford wrote: Guys, you have a variety of options online that don't exist in your day to day life in regards to slurs and offensive behavior. Firstly, I hardly think it's "discrimination" online, so much so as more loose use of slurs. Unless you're saying, "I'm black, gl hf" and he responds, "Fuck you nigger", it's not really "discriminatory" because he probably called white, asian, latino people a "nigger" that day, it's just someone using slurs.
It's a derogatory term for black people, that people use as a word to basically put somebody else down. How do you not see the connection here? I'm not saying people are being purposefully malicious when they use derogatory terms online, but I think people have to learn to understand that things like this aren't socially acceptable, so why do we have to put up with it online? There are plenty of words you can use to insult somebody without the implication that you consider being that minority makes you a lesser person.
Again people, You are taking a word and putting your own assumptions on it.
In regards to being socially acceptable? How many times on TV do you see Negroes, calling their friend(s) "nigger(s)"? LOADS It's about context and personal meaning. Learn that please. Yes It can be taken personally. Yes it has historically "negative" connections. But guess what. Bitching about it won't help anyone. What will help is using the words like gay/nigger/cunt/bitch/etc in positive terms.
AND yes, they can be used in positive terms.
I do understand context. That's why I understand that somebody getting mad on the internet and calling somebody "nigger" does imply that you think being black means you're less of a human. We're not talking about the context of people using these terms in a positive light, or if such a thing even exists (it doesn't, by the way.) What I'm talking about is people using these words as a putdown and the very real implications behind them and how they can affect other people.
There is a report function, if getting severely harassed you can use that. I have personally used it a couple of times against people who were being completely morons and assaulting me as a person, rather than the usual stuff like "WTF ZERG IMBA [insert unit here] BLA BLA".
I don't see any issue, at least as long as that function is used and Blizzard actually takes action, which I do believe is the case.
On July 13 2011 01:19 Mordiford wrote: Guys, you have a variety of options online that don't exist in your day to day life in regards to slurs and offensive behavior. Firstly, I hardly think it's "discrimination" online, so much so as more loose use of slurs. Unless you're saying, "I'm black, gl hf" and he responds, "Fuck you nigger", it's not really "discriminatory" because he probably called white, asian, latino people a "nigger" that day, it's just someone using slurs.
It's a derogatory term for black people, that people use as a word to basically put somebody else down. How do you not see the connection here? I'm not saying people are being purposefully malicious when they use derogatory terms online, but I think people have to learn to understand that things like this aren't socially acceptable, so why do we have to put up with it online? There are plenty of words you can use to insult somebody without the implication that you consider being that minority makes you a lesser person.
Again people, You are taking a word and putting your own assumptions on it.
In regards to being socially acceptable? How many times on TV do you see Negroes, calling their friend(s) "nigger(s)"? LOADS It's about context and personal meaning. Learn that please. Yes It can be taken personally. Yes it has historically "negative" connections. But guess what. Bitching about it won't help anyone. What will help is using the words like gay/nigger/cunt/bitch/etc in positive terms.
AND yes, they can be used in positive terms.
I do understand context. That's why I understand that somebody getting mad on the internet and calling somebody "nigger" does imply that you think being black means you're less of a human. We're not talking about the context of people using these terms in a positive light, or if such a thing even exists (it doesn't, by the way.) What I'm talking about is people using these words as a putdown and the very real implications behind them and how they can affect other people.
Ok, this is where you and I differ. Also, I am just going have to stop replying to this thread.
I don't hold the belief the word "nigger" inherently implies that the user of the word thinks blacks are less of a human, OR even infers that in using the word generates the belief that blacks are less of a human in others.
So this is my last response to this thread.
Finishing summary. Words hold within humans only the meaning that is given to them. These meanings can change. Both negative and positive meanings can co-exists within 1 word.
I truly hope you can see this.
Edit: Updated from "things" to "thinks" - Minor mistake
On July 13 2011 01:19 Mordiford wrote: Guys, you have a variety of options online that don't exist in your day to day life in regards to slurs and offensive behavior. Firstly, I hardly think it's "discrimination" online, so much so as more loose use of slurs. Unless you're saying, "I'm black, gl hf" and he responds, "Fuck you nigger", it's not really "discriminatory" because he probably called white, asian, latino people a "nigger" that day, it's just someone using slurs.
It's a derogatory term for black people, that people use as a word to basically put somebody else down. How do you not see the connection here? I'm not saying people are being purposefully malicious when they use derogatory terms online, but I think people have to learn to understand that things like this aren't socially acceptable, so why do we have to put up with it online? There are plenty of words you can use to insult somebody without the implication that you consider being that minority makes you a lesser person.
Again people, You are taking a word and putting your own assumptions on it.
In regards to being socially acceptable? How many times on TV do you see Negroes, calling their friend(s) "nigger(s)"? LOADS It's about context and personal meaning. Learn that please. Yes It can be taken personally. Yes it has historically "negative" connections. But guess what. Bitching about it won't help anyone. What will help is using the words like gay/nigger/cunt/bitch/etc in positive terms.
AND yes, they can be used in positive terms.
People do understand that nigger is a derogatory word for a Negro/African american/other culturally sensitive word here. They do see the connection that it can be a put down.
Also. Please, please understand that you have no "rights" to be protected from negative words on the internet. People will continue to use these words. AND it will be socially acceptable. BECAUSE socially acceptable is whatever the social group accepts at any given time.
It's not law, you have no 'internet' rights, No one is harming you. YOU ARE ON THE INTERNET. Get off the internet if you are truly offended.
Edit: Grammar
Ok man, I agree that there are no "rights" to be protected from harsh language online.
However, the bolded part is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. I'm not gonna go into a whole "nigger" vs "nigga" debate, but its funny that you think that using the N-word in a positive light will change everything when, as you say so yourself, black people have been using that word positively for decades now. Centuries even.
And yet people who dont like black people will still use it as a derogatory slur. As long as there are people who want to use those words as an insult, it doesnt matter how many people try to use it as a positive term. It will just make it so people will use the term in both ways.
People say that something is "sick" or something is "filthy" in a positive manner all the time. I hear those words used in a positive way more often than I hear them used in a negative way. And yet it would still carry weight as an insult if someone used it to describe a person or a race or anything.
PS - Negro is not a very culturally sensitive word
On July 13 2011 01:19 Mordiford wrote: Guys, you have a variety of options online that don't exist in your day to day life in regards to slurs and offensive behavior. Firstly, I hardly think it's "discrimination" online, so much so as more loose use of slurs. Unless you're saying, "I'm black, gl hf" and he responds, "Fuck you nigger", it's not really "discriminatory" because he probably called white, asian, latino people a "nigger" that day, it's just someone using slurs.
It's a derogatory term for black people, that people use as a word to basically put somebody else down. How do you not see the connection here? I'm not saying people are being purposefully malicious when they use derogatory terms online, but I think people have to learn to understand that things like this aren't socially acceptable, so why do we have to put up with it online? There are plenty of words you can use to insult somebody without the implication that you consider being that minority makes you a lesser person.
Again people, You are taking a word and putting your own assumptions on it.
In regards to being socially acceptable? How many times on TV do you see Negroes, calling their friend(s) "nigger(s)"? LOADS It's about context and personal meaning. Learn that please. Yes It can be taken personally. Yes it has historically "negative" connections. But guess what. Bitching about it won't help anyone. What will help is using the words like gay/nigger/cunt/bitch/etc in positive terms.
AND yes, they can be used in positive terms.
I do understand context. That's why I understand that somebody getting mad on the internet and calling somebody "nigger" does imply that you think being black means you're less of a human. We're not talking about the context of people using these terms in a positive light, or if such a thing even exists (it doesn't, by the way.) What I'm talking about is people using these words as a putdown and the very real implications behind them and how they can affect other people.
Ok, this is where you and I differ. Also, I am just going have to stop replying to this thread.
I don't hold the belief the word "nigger" inherently implies that the user of the word things blacks are less of a human, OR even infers that in using the word generates the belief that blacks are less of a human in others.
So this is my last response to this thread.
Finishing summary. Words hold within humans only the meaning that is given to them. These meanings can change. Both negative and positive meanings can co-exists within 1 word.
I truly hope you can see this.
Ok, tell me this then.
What is a "nigger" and why would you use it as an insult?
On July 13 2011 01:19 Mordiford wrote: Guys, you have a variety of options online that don't exist in your day to day life in regards to slurs and offensive behavior. Firstly, I hardly think it's "discrimination" online, so much so as more loose use of slurs. Unless you're saying, "I'm black, gl hf" and he responds, "Fuck you nigger", it's not really "discriminatory" because he probably called white, asian, latino people a "nigger" that day, it's just someone using slurs.
It's a derogatory term for black people, that people use as a word to basically put somebody else down. How do you not see the connection here? I'm not saying people are being purposefully malicious when they use derogatory terms online, but I think people have to learn to understand that things like this aren't socially acceptable, so why do we have to put up with it online? There are plenty of words you can use to insult somebody without the implication that you consider being that minority makes you a lesser person.
Again people, You are taking a word and putting your own assumptions on it.
In regards to being socially acceptable? How many times on TV do you see Negroes, calling their friend(s) "nigger(s)"? LOADS It's about context and personal meaning. Learn that please. Yes It can be taken personally. Yes it has historically "negative" connections. But guess what. Bitching about it won't help anyone. What will help is using the words like gay/nigger/cunt/bitch/etc in positive terms.
AND yes, they can be used in positive terms.
I do understand context. That's why I understand that somebody getting mad on the internet and calling somebody "nigger" does imply that you think being black means you're less of a human. We're not talking about the context of people using these terms in a positive light, or if such a thing even exists (it doesn't, by the way.) What I'm talking about is people using these words as a putdown and the very real implications behind them and how they can affect other people.
Ok, this is where you and I differ. Also, I am just going have to stop replying to this thread.
I don't hold the belief the word "nigger" inherently implies that the user of the word things blacks are less of a human, OR even infers that in using the word generates the belief that blacks are less of a human in others.
So this is my last response to this thread.
Finishing summary. Words hold within humans only the meaning that is given to them. These meanings can change. Both negative and positive meanings can co-exists within 1 word.
I truly hope you can see this.
Ok, tell me this then.
What is a "nigger" and why would you use it as an insult?
Id wager it wraps up dumb piece of shit/retard/poor bitch in a singular word package, rather than mean someone who's black and therefore inferior. Words used to change meaning all the time, and people used to use words that went bad to good to bad, just like eggs and cholesterol talk. except now everyones become so pussified and sheep-like that Words are starting to die off. Soon we'll only be able to refer to each other as this person and that person, ignoring gender or race completely, like how its now "server" instead of "waiter" "waitress". its as if people want to erase all sexuality and individuality. Even though all terms, all stereotypes, all categoriies, exist because the human mind naturally puts things in a set of this or that. its the main reason girls and boys wonder so early about their genitalia. because it belongs to the "other" and not "them". its separating. The human mind naturally works like that. It wants to draw up dividing lines and sections. thats how it built the world thats around us today.
replacing waiter and waitress with server is still bullshit imo. its actually legal mandate or something because even at hooters they say server, even though its a sexist joint.
There's a few things that I think are worth contributing in this discussion since last I posted...
1) What constitutes the bright-line between language that is offensive and not offensive is a moving target because what offends some people doesn't offend others.--Retard, gay, fatso, etc. I think it's interesting to to interrogate why some discourses are considered more offensive and intolerable than others. What is even more interesting to note is which discourses society says are okay to use and which ones are not. I have yet to see someone say "kike" as an insult on bn or "redneck" or "cracker." The fact that the bn community is predominately middle and upper class has a large reason to do with people are "naturally" picking certain slurs over others.
2) I'm not sure why we wouldn't want to adopt a precautionary principle in regards to the language we use. Whether I meet someone in person, online, or any other circumstance I would want to interact with them in a way that would minimize my chances of offending. If an entire community decides that it is ok to say whatever slur they want (or more in actually a very specific set of homophobic and racial slurs) it is saying that "we don't know who you are so we can say whatever we want and f*ck you if you don't like it" opposed to thinking that we would want to expand our community and make it open for people to participate in from whatever subject position they come from.
3) The continual defense that we don't know who we interact with so it isn't meant that way is a flawed argument because (a) it assumes a race and gender neutrality that priveldges the assumption that people are not a sexual or racial minority and therefore wouldn't take offense; (b) doesn't excuse the choice of discriminatory language that is directly connected with being lame, a loser, bad, etc. This in terms replicates the belief that being gay is really as bad as being someone who 6 pools all the time; and (c) ignores the precautionary principle I would think anyone who wanted interact positively with other people would want to adhere to in this instance.
4) People who say "You don't like it get off the internet" are flat out advocating segregation of communities. In short, if someone is offended because they are gay, are black, are whatever, you're saying get out. This is a white online gaming community and if you don't like people saying nigger than stay out because it's our space is basically what it can be boiled down to. Why should people who want to play games online have to leave because people want to harass them using language that if used in schools, in the workplace, in almost any other context would be reprimanded if done in the way it happens online? Why shouldn't the people who bullies others get out or learn how to get along with others?
On July 13 2011 12:19 sailorferret wrote: Why shouldn't the people who bullies others get out or learn how to get along with others?
Because a lot of gamers are bullied nerds who, far from becoming more sensitive, actually dream of taking the bully pulpit themselves and pick on easier targets.
I used to do it all the time when I was younger. Don't like something? Compare it to a gay. A black. A Jew. Any easy target that you and your friends can all laugh at together. The words (nigger, faggot, etc.) didn't hurt my feelings, so why should they hurt anyone else's, right? Never mind the fact that I would never have actually called a black guy a nigger to his face. It was just the internet, where feelings aren't real and trolling trumps honest discussion.
On July 13 2011 01:19 Mordiford wrote: Guys, you have a variety of options online that don't exist in your day to day life in regards to slurs and offensive behavior. Firstly, I hardly think it's "discrimination" online, so much so as more loose use of slurs. Unless you're saying, "I'm black, gl hf" and he responds, "Fuck you nigger", it's not really "discriminatory" because he probably called white, asian, latino people a "nigger" that day, it's just someone using slurs.
It's a derogatory term for black people, that people use as a word to basically put somebody else down. How do you not see the connection here? I'm not saying people are being purposefully malicious when they use derogatory terms online, but I think people have to learn to understand that things like this aren't socially acceptable, so why do we have to put up with it online? There are plenty of words you can use to insult somebody without the implication that you consider being that minority makes you a lesser person.
This isn't relevant to what I said. Because of the anonymity of the internet, you can't be discriminatory against someone based on their race if you don't know what it is. If someone calls someone else a "nigger", that not discrimination, that's them using a slur.
I'm not addressing the power of the word, or it's acceptability, merely that in an online setting, it's not necessarily discrimination.
Ok, seriously now, what is all this nonsense. Using a word in a positive light... what?
Calling someone nigger/gay/Jew is NOT ok because they are not black/gay/Jewish. As mentioned many times before, it's got nothing to do with the person person you are insulting, but rather it is an insult to those groups (gays, jews, blacks) as they are being used as an everyday insult or they are being made to be seen as "undesireable to be".
And the funniest is all these people going "But it's not offensive!!!". Thats because you're not gay, black or Jewish. I'm gay and I find it very offensive that my sexuality is referred to whenever a halfwit wants to say something is bad/undesirable. Saying these things was born from discrimination and even through they now (mostly) no longer represent their former meaning they still point back to an "offending" minority, single it out and compare it with something bad. It's is STILL discrimination.
Saying that to someone as an insult (even though they are white, straight, christian) and saying that to your friend is very different. I think it's very easy to tell the difference between a term of endearment and an insult. It's kind of impossible to comment on the term of endearment and how that is right/wrong because it depends heavily on the context and how it's said.
I also want to point out that as a gay person, this never really bothered me before. I've even said it myself! But recently, I've given it some thought and it's actually not right and has to stop. I'm taking steps to stop my friends from saying these sorts of things and I hope other gays will too.
On July 13 2011 01:07 MozzarellaL wrote: So according to your logic, calling a bunch of unsavory white individuals 'niggers' is perfectly acceptable?
That's not at all what I said, but if someone wants to do that - it's inaccurate but it's their prerogative. My friends and I jokingly use the phrase, "Yeah, niggers!" when something is going well all the time. We have no black friends, and none of our friends care, because they're not overly sensitive. It's an inside joke stemming from a recent trip to Vegas, and it's hilarious IMO.
I'm putting in my vote on shunning and blocking communication (if they're harassing me). Personally I don't hang out with people who use discriminatory language irl and I don't like it online either. There are enough people with good taste on SC that you don't have to play with assholes.
On July 13 2011 20:09 jarrydesque wrote: And the funniest is all these people going "But it's not offensive!!!". Thats because you're not gay, black or Jewish. I'm gay and I find it very offensive that my sexuality is referred to whenever a halfwit wants to say something is bad/undesirable. Saying these things was born from discrimination and even through they now (mostly) no longer represent their former meaning they still point back to an "offending" minority, single it out and compare it with something bad. It's is STILL discrimination.
I find it hilarious that you can see that the word "gay" in this context doesn't refer to homosexuals or anything to do with homosexuals, but you're still offended by it. Gay's former meaning was "homosexual". It was also "happy" before that. It just has MORE meanings now. Many words have multiple meanings. I guess this requires some ability of the reader to determine in which context it is being used, but really... You're being gay with all this offensive talk! (READ: You're being a retard! And why is it less offensive to use a derogatory term for the mentally handicapped?)
Watch some Penn and Teller.
If we're too worried about "offending" people we end up with terms like "African American". If you look at the composition of the term it seems to indicate that these citizens aren't fully American citizens? (lol). But these black people aren't African at all. They have no idea what's going on in Africa and the majority of them have no African relatives... Why is it offensive to call someone black?! They are black. Imagine "German American" was used instead of white... No person of German descent (multiple generations ago) would take offense at being called white. By the same logic of "African American", most of the white people in the US should be called "English Americans" lul. So, so silly. And don't point to the past history of discrimination as an explanation for this. Black people in SA were living in conditions much worse than the US much more recently and yet they are still called black!
Dunno about other places but it's perfectly acceptable to say 'white person' and 'black person' or even when talking collectively say 'whites' and 'blacks' around here, unless of course you're saying it with malicious intent or something.
On July 13 2011 04:26 jarrydesque wrote: Lol. Half the people in this thread are obviously not concerned about "internet discrimination" as brought up by the OP but are bringing up other very relevant points that the OP brings to light and the other half are people jumping on the bandwagon with things like "butthurt" and "get over it"
If you're going to participate in a serious conversation like an adult, please at least read the post.
Internet Discrimination....Hmmm you want everyone to replace words like gay or nigger with "I don't like how you played", or "you are annoying me" People use these words, cause they are easy, and often get a rise(or desired response out of people[see trolling]).
Please understand that you choose to go on the internet. YOU choose to play Starcraft. AND you can choose to block people.
The internet is not like real life, if it was. I would slap you through your monitor.
Real Life: I can actually bully you. Internet: I cannot actually bully you, IF you choose to just block/avoid me.
Also. Thanks for assuming being an "adult" = agreeing with your point of view.
Sigh. Just... no.
If you READ my post you might notice that I asked everyone to READ posts before they jumped on bandwagons saying how the OP was nonsense.[see post]
You will notice if you READ my post, I said nothing actually supporting the OP. I said that other issues were being brought to light in this thread that are important. But instead people like you who don't READ are missing them completely because you are too busy jumping on the bandwagon flashing your dick around saying things like "It's the internet maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan, grow some balls maaaaaaaaaaaaaan, don't be such a sissy, maaaaaaaaaaaan".
So essentially, you did exactly what I was asking people not to do, and then tried to call me out on a view that I don't share. Now I don't know if you're trolling or simply struggle with reading.
Also thanks for saying dumb, unfounded things at the end of your posts.
I don't see how you find anything here irelevant to your op lol, besides the fact they're mostly oposed to your opinion.
EPT
