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AraMoOse
Canada66 Posts
On July 14 2011 05:33 bonifaceviii wrote: Fucking quebecois. You lost, get the hell over it! Why you friggin square-headed beige turtleneck wearing Anglo-Saxon redneck you! I will répondre by the bouche of my Cannons! Sacrebleu! | ||
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AirbladeOrange
United States2574 Posts
Words have connotations and some, such as these, carry an especially heavy and demeaning connotation. Also, there is a good chance that many people who don't feel like these words are a problem have never been victimized themselves. I'm talking about being gay and having someone come up to you and call you a faggot to try to demean you. Even seeing this happen or knowing someone who this happens to could change your opinion on the subject. Although context certainly plays a role in this discussion, I think people should seriously consider if using racial and sexual-oriented slurs are necessary to convey their ideas. | ||
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jarrydesque
584 Posts
On July 14 2011 01:32 Lucidity wrote: I find it hilarious that you can see that the word "gay" in this context doesn't refer to homosexuals or anything to do with homosexuals, but you're still offended by it. Gay's former meaning was "homosexual". It was also "happy" before that. It just has MORE meanings now. Many words have multiple meanings. I guess this requires some ability of the reader to determine in which context it is being used, but really... You're being gay with all this offensive talk! (READ: You're being a retard! And why is it less offensive to use a derogatory term for the mentally handicapped?) Watch some Penn and Teller. If we're too worried about "offending" people we end up with terms like "African American". If you look at the composition of the term it seems to indicate that these citizens aren't fully American citizens? (lol). But these black people aren't African at all. They have no idea what's going on in Africa and the majority of them have no African relatives... Why is it offensive to call someone black?! They are black. Imagine "German American" was used instead of white... No person of German descent (multiple generations ago) would take offense at being called white. By the same logic of "African American", most of the white people in the US should be called "English Americans" lul. So, so silly. And don't point to the past history of discrimination as an explanation for this. Black people in SA were living in conditions much worse than the US much more recently and yet they are still called black! Sorry, you're not getting this so I'm going to explain it in a step by step manner using "gay" as the main example. - I don't care if you call a gay person gay, because they are. - My problem is not with calling people discriminatory names over the internet (yes, I know what trolling is) My problem is that the word "gay" is being used as an insult in the English language. Let's look at an example. Friends want to do something. One friend does not. "Come on, dude, don't be gay." Does he mean "homosexual"? It could, in this context - he may mean, don't be a pansy or a sissy. But lets say that we know with 100% certainty that, no, he does not. Can you still look at that sentence and honestly say that the use of "gay" is not discriminatory even though it does not directly mean "homosexual"? Yes, of course it is. The word "gay" (and I'll indulge your little argument here) now has a new meaning of "lame" or something similar. 1 - The word gay is used as a vehicle for this new meaning. 2 - This new meaning is (in the above context) something that is seen as undesirable to be. Why else would he threaten that he may be seen that way if he does not comply? So this new meaning for the word gay is seen as negative. 3 - Even if we IGNORE the above two statements the entire concept of using the word gay as an insult (before the meaning "changed") was born from discrimination, so regardless of the development of the word it is still not acceptable. 4 - Lastly, it's also extremely dependent on perception. You and your friends might have a good understanding of that the "new meaning" of the word gay has but what about when you meet new people? What if you are sitting at a dinner table and you call someone gay and there is a gay person sitting at that table and is not familiar with the "new" use of the word. Do you think they will be offended? I think I'm allowed to have a problem with it. I'm not really sure about all the African American talk - you sort of went off on a tangent. There is nothing wrong with calling a black person black... because they are black. It's wrong to use the word "black" as a vehicle of insult, just like I explained above. I'd recommend you reread your posts, I'm not sure you even know where you were going with that one. Oh and and I think using the word "retard" is bad. I'll even explain why. If I went to a friendly gathering and (while joking) called someone a retard, only to late find out that one of the mothers sitting at the table has a retarded child, I would feel very sheepish. Why? Because I used a word I had no place using as a vehicle for a insult or joke - Even though I did not actually mean mentally disabled. On July 14 2011 01:39 Cyba wrote: I don't see how you find anything here irelevant to your op lol, besides the fact they're mostly oposed to your opinion. I don't know what you're saying boyo, you're going to have to elaborate. | ||
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Chopin-
United States11 Posts
Yes, you may not know if this person you are playing is black or gay but it doesn't mean that he/she isn't. Yes, you may know one or more people from a group of people who say the use of that negative word is okay but it isn't for others in that group. Yes, you can put up a filter but it doesn't mean that something wasn't said to you or that you can't see that a filterable world was used. I've been struggling with my feelings on this I think because cyberbullying is quite real, even if not actively directed towards a specific person. I played SC1 a lot when I was growing up as a closeted teen with low self-esteem. I hid it, was ashamed by it. Even though I lived in a liberal area (Northern California) and have gay relatives, have good friends, something still happened during high school that led me to consider suicide. When I played SC1, I didn't play against other players that much, instead mostly A.I. or I don't remember if I was just lucky enough to not get called a faggot in-game. I think if I were in that or a worse situation again now (teenager, closeted, bullied, etc.) and was getting that level of negativity and having players say "oh great, we're playing with faggots", I can't say for sure that I would have been as lucky to consider life when I was looking for an exactoknife. Obviously the burden is hard for Blizzard to regulate, this is just more of my appeal to people that words carry weight and it could be said to someone who is young, impressionable, and feel that he/she has to be ashamed of who he/she is. I feel that when people are young, everything just feels bigger and carries more weight, it's harder to see a future or an exit where things can be better. | ||
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Xevious
United States2086 Posts
On July 12 2011 09:05 sailorferret wrote: My lay person response: Why just because it's the Internet should we not care? Is it different than schools, in malls, or other public places? Put another way- Is because it's the Internet we're allowed to do whatever we want and say whatever we want to others? Because it's already standard for people to use offensive language on the internet, and if you're that easily offended by it you don't belong here. On July 12 2011 09:05 sailorferret wrote: My academic response: The more we tolerate things like homophobic discourse the more acceptable it becomes, which lays the foundation for people to use actual violence against people as they take what they learn in online gaming communities into the real world and then act upon that hate. See Judith Butler or Michel Foucault on how normalizing discourses creates a growing impact on communities that ripples out. First of all, what demographic are you referring to? Is what you're trying to say that the average online gamer will somehow be motivated to "act upon that hate" (which isn't really hate, because when I call my opponent a fag for 6pooling me I don't think he's a homosexual nor am I trying to insult homosexuals in general) just because it's part of their own gaming vocabulary? On July 12 2011 09:05 sailorferret wrote: The in between response: If it wasn't on the Internet would it be tolerable or would you say something? If you wouldn't say something, I would argue that the belief that using such language against other people is at the root of discriminatory beliefs. Bottom line, why not try to make our community hate-free and open to people of all kinds... even those who take offense (even if not everyone does take offense). Because it already is, and the people who legitimately believe in the offensive things they say online aren't going to change because of what we do, not to mention they're also in the very strong minority. If you can't accept that it's your problem, gaming culture won't change for you. I couldn't live with myself if I was offended simply by a word. The meaning behind a word when used seriously, maybe, but not just a word itself. That's effectively what people are doing when they take everything they hear on the internet seriously. | ||
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sailorferret
United States66 Posts
Because it already is, and the people who legitimately believe in the offensive things they say online aren't going to change because of what we do, not to mention they're also in the very strong minority. If you can't accept that it's your problem, gaming culture won't change for you. The belief that this is how it is so people won't change just because a minority cares strongly is an excuse for not doing anything... not an argument. Many many many examples in history where people said "it can't be changed," "that's the way it is," "they really are too small of a minority to care about," etc... and the situation changed. Why is online gaming culture different? Why here is it ok to say because this is how it is it'll never change and we shouldn't even bother? People and communities change. Perhaps it's time for the e-sports world to change to be more inclusive now as well. Or are online gamers so self-centered they only care about themselves to such a degree they won't even try to expand their vocabulary or smack talk to evolve beyond level one homophobic insults? I think we can change. And I know that people do. Brick by brick, post by post. | ||
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Good1
Russian Federation138 Posts
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sailorferret
United States66 Posts
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ElPeque.fogata
Uruguay462 Posts
You go to the police? Wtf! Just say "fuck you too <3" and go on with your life you fucker. (  ) | ||
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