EPTDealing With Discrimination - Page 4
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MrDudeMan
Canada973 Posts
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TanGeng
Sanya12364 Posts
Ask them to stop if they are your friends or you want them to be. Block them if you don't care to talk to them again. Report them and get others to shun the offenders if it's particularly distasteful. People who care enough to be considerate make for a good community. Usually these people will be self-conscious and will shape up when asked. A small segment you can just ignore. If you really think that it's out of control, you can report it to Blizzard - with the added threat that you will stop playing the game if Blizzard doesn't fix the problem. This is more of an issue the more social a game becomes. Quite a few companies are trying to figure out how to police their own gaming communities or help their users police the gaming communities. | ||
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Squalish
United States137 Posts
On July 12 2011 10:36 AimForTheBushes wrote: What you just wrote is simply libel. reddit does not "endorse child porn", it simply will not censor anything that isn't illegal. Are there creepy pics of young teen kids in bathing suits? Yeah, probably, as the thread attests to that (I don't go to reddit very often, though I did read that thread..something you obviously didn't do...). But saying that they endorse child pornography is nothing short of a lie. ..And how is this on related/topic?? Child abuse is actually physically and psychological screwing up a kid...talking shit anonymously on the internet is..well..talking shit on the internet.. talking shit anonymously on the internet with discriminatory language is more than just talking shit on the internet. while it may be less serious than child abuse(or not, i don't claim to know), as history can teach us, words have power. on the surface, what we can deduct logically is that discriminatory language discourages minorities from playing this game. this makes the starcraft community into something more niched towards white middle class males. if that's what the community wants, then that's what the community will get, for better or for worse. | ||
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Supamang
United States2298 Posts
First of all, I think "discrimination" is a slight misnomer. Those BMers will scream racial, homophobic, and misogynistic slurs at anyone, regardless of race, sexuality, or gender. Thats pretty much the opposite of discrimination. Yea, its racism/homophobia/sexism, but they sure as hell arent discriminating who they sling those insults at. Secondly, its really not a big deal unless you have a young, impressionable 12-year old who cant really take it. In which case, it might be a good time to either give them some hard truths about the world or just not let them on bnet. For most of us, we are old enough to realize that its just some random faceless rager who will probably never impact our lives outside of SC (and even then well probably forget about them by the next day). Its really not a big deal | ||
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DoubleReed
United States4130 Posts
On July 12 2011 10:11 sailorferret wrote: Here's a related forum thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=240225 It follows whether or not the community should support Reddit given that Reddit endorses child porn and the sexualization of children... and other forms of harassment. People on that thread smee to overwhelmingly say we should not support Reddit because of how it represents our community. Why is this different? Do you also disagree with the Reddit thread? Okay, he's made comparisons to segregation, slavery, and now somehow pedophilia. At this point, I honestly think the OP is trolling. | ||
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VPCursed
1044 Posts
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Moldwood
United States280 Posts
On July 12 2011 09:21 shabby wrote: Not an issue. Freedom of speech trumps all. If you don't like it, don't read it. You can ignore, block, filter, whatever. This is no different anywhere else on the internet, people are who they are, and there will always be hate, misunderstood jokes, discrimination, angry people and so on - especially when you can be anonymouse on the internet. It's naive to think you can moderate it on such a large scale as battle.net, and there will never be an agreement to do it in the first place. It's doing no harm apart from hurting your feelings, and only because you let it. Use the filter! Absolutely agree. Don't even understand why 'Do nothing -- its blizzards problem' was an option. Its a social issue, which we must overcome as an open-minded people. And if we can't overcome it? Well the issue lies with those who discriminate -- and may we all cast them out of our social circles forever. | ||
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Tektos
Australia1321 Posts
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PITN
New Zealand158 Posts
On July 12 2011 09:55 sailorferret wrote: I do understand your concern for social control and outright censorship. Three things: 1) You're saying that killing all the gays is a better world than losing the right to say homophobic things... it seems 2) 1984 fears top-down solutions... my proposal is bottom-up from the community itself 3) Language is already being used to debase humanity currently but in a direction that hurts minority populations more than majority populations... so you're argument is (a) non-unique; and (b) answered by the fact that people inevitably try to influence each all the time... the only question is in what direction it goes. Also, people should read Herbert Marcuse's short article titled "Repressive Tolerance" http://www.marcuse.org/herbert/pubs/60spubs/65repressivetolerance.htm The article is very good at explaining how the right to speech is less than the right to life, liberty, or the pursuit of happiness by showing how the right to free speech is a tool used by those in power to maintain power since not everyone has equal access to speech so those in power control the majority of it. Liberal, conservative, irrelevant... bottom-line is that the majority simple has more speaking power than the minority because they have more voices. Democracy was set up to protect against the tyranny of the majority. The question of speech is still a question for democracy and society to deal with. And, of course, there are already limits on speech (can't scream fire in a crowded place) and legislation against hate crime (that combines violent language with violent action)... so you're defense of free speech for free speech is something that most people have already come down against. In short, there needs to be limits on free speech so people can speak freely. Are you serious with number 1? Wow, you seem willfully obtuse about what people are saying. Basically, this thread is a mountain out of a molehill. People say mean things. Especially on the internet. Get over it. | ||
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jdseemoreglass
United States3773 Posts
On July 12 2011 10:50 Squalish wrote: talking shit anonymously on the internet with discriminatory language is more than just talking shit on the internet. while it may be less serious than child abuse(or not, i don't claim to know), as history can teach us, words have power. on the surface, what we can deduct logically is that discriminatory language discourages minorities from playing this game. this makes the starcraft community into something more niched towards white middle class males. if that's what the community wants, then that's what the community will get, for better or for worse. A few individuals who say stupid shit online do not constitute "the community." Hopefully most sane "minorities" will recognize this common sense truth and not assume that battle.net is a forum for the KKK because some idiot starts spamming backwards swastikas. It's absurd in my mind to arbitrarily suggest that "minorities are being discouraged from playing." I could say all the people stereotyping "white males on TL" are discriminating against me and that I am being discouraged from visiting the site. But I'm not someone who gets upset when people say dumb things on the internet. It's called being a mature adult, to not feel the need to run to the teacher when someone is being a meanie. Since this whole thread topic is kind of juvenile, let's take it a step further. Let's say you are on the playground, and someone is being a "meanie" and calling you bad names. How do you respond? The responses can range from running to the teacher, to crying in a corner, to ignoring the person, to kicking their ass. Now take your preferred response and apply it to this type of situation online. Adults have semantics and words for redefining stupid people saying stupid things as "discriminatory speech" etc. but really this is nothing more than learning very basic conflict resolution. People who haven't learned such basic skills are going to revert to the "complain to mommy/complain to the community"-so-they-can-make-everything-better mentality. Most people don't have that mentality, which is why such a high percentage of people are voting "it's not an issue," which leads to the likewise childish "you don't know what it's like to be discriminated against" argument. In either case, the OP asked a question, got his answer, and he's clearly not happy with the response, unless of course he made this thread in order to have his own little debate on speech. | ||
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Aruno
New Zealand748 Posts
How could you even change the minds of racists into not being racists? Are you trying to solve racism? Or are you just trying to get some sympathy from others and get others to say you're "right"? Lastly, Your on the internet. You could be a purple and green alien from Pluto and no one would know. *People will find any excuses to insult you. It doesn't mean it's true or that they even hate you. It only means they are angry* If you are afraid of racism in real life, then I suggest you do something in the "Real World" about it. | ||
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Madoga
Netherlands471 Posts
Besides, there is a "mature language filter", enable it. Problem solved. | ||
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sailorferret
United States66 Posts
Just because someone does not say something dergatory to someone who actual fits that category doesn't mean that it doesn't create a culture that upholds the norms that reward use of language in that way. People "don't mean it that way" may mean that they don't think all gays should be killed but certainly means that they can easily connect being gay with being someone lame, cheesy, and 6 pools. I would contend that that almost puts it in the outright conscious discrimination definition. However, I am more concerned here with the culture that it promotes and the community it fosters. Outright discrimination is obviously worse but implicit forms of discrimination creates a cultural currency that paves the way for it to happen. As for legal precedent the Supreme Court ruled that discrimination does not have to be intentional or conscious for it to be discriminatory. The rationale behind this was that intentional discrimination is (a) next to impossible to prove; and (b) next to irrelevant because it's about the society that's created and its impact. The implication: if language or norms created within a community create discriminatory conditions that fosters exclusion that it is the obligation of society to help curb the discriminatory effects of this. The Supreme Court didn't lay out an enforcement mechanism however. Nor do I. But I think that regardless of people's intentions or whoever the person who is demeaned by this language actually is, doing nothing tolerates it and creates the conditions for a community who doesn't care about what others may feel or may be offended. I would also wager, based upon these responses- the bn community is more left than the Republican right but not as left as many pieces of Democrat legislation and rulings that work to target hate speech as well. So I don't know if the bn community is really more left than most. | ||
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sailorferret
United States66 Posts
It is impossible to solve racism through a single forum, a single report of a player, or anything else. However, I am looking to help start the process of ending it from being tolerated like other -isms. Again- people said slavery could not be stopped, indigenous populations were savages, and that women really are less then men... However, society and culture changes... piece by piece... maybe post by post. Either way, complacency is as good as consent. Not everyone in Nazi Germany agreed with the Holocaust. Sadly, the majority decided not to say anything. Obviously, this is different than the Holocaust... but should we not do anything against language that people seem to agree if said in person to someone who would be offended is wrong? The internet is our new medium of communication, fostering connections and communities with each other. Creating a division between what happens on the web from what happens on the crust of the Earth can make for a very sad future as we become more connected electronically. | ||
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jdseemoreglass
United States3773 Posts
On July 12 2011 11:15 sailorferret wrote: The internet is our new medium of communication, fostering connections and communities with each other. Creating a division between what happens on the web from what happens on the crust of the Earth can make for a very sad future as we become more connected electronically. The sad future I envision is one where society is a bunch of wimps who can't handle people thinking or saying anything remotely negative to/about them. The sad future I envision is where every person in the world has a mentality of victimization and wears their victimhood like a badge of honor, which they can use to control and stifle the behavior of people around them. Long story short: Grow some thicker skin OP. The faster society as a whole grows thicker skin, the better. And quit bringing up ridiculous shit like the holocaust to try and bolster your weak argument. | ||
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sailorferret
United States66 Posts
If "Okay, he's made comparisons to segregation, slavery, and now somehow pedophilia. At this point, I honestly think the OP is trolling." @ DoubleReed And "the OP asked a question, got his answer, and he's clearly not happy with the response, unless of course he made this thread in order to have his own little debate on speech." @ jdseemoreglass Is this not my free speech and should be encouraged? My honest answer- I think better than reporting players is create a forum or thread for it to be discussed to educate each other about the effects of things. I should have put that up there as a poll answer. Sorry if you feel otherwise. Either way, I'd say it's better than not caring at all. | ||
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ShatterZer0
United States1843 Posts
JK | ||
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Aruno
New Zealand748 Posts
On July 12 2011 11:15 sailorferret wrote: @Aruno It is impossible to solve racism through a single forum, a single report of a player, or anything else. However, I am looking to help start the process of ending it from being tolerated like other -isms. Again- people said slavery could not be stopped, indigenous populations were savages, and that women really are less then men... However, society and culture changes... piece by piece... maybe post by post. Either way, complacency is as good as consent. Not everyone in Nazi Germany agreed with the Holocaust. Sadly, the majority decided not to say anything. Obviously, this is different than the Holocaust... but should we not do anything against language that people seem to agree if said in person to someone who would be offended is wrong? The internet is our new medium of communication, fostering connections and communities with each other. Creating a division between what happens on the web from what happens on the crust of the Earth can make for a very sad future as we become more connected electronically. So you are trying to solve racism....(one post at a time ^_^) | ||
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jdseemoreglass
United States3773 Posts
On July 12 2011 11:20 sailorferret wrote: One last thing- If "Okay, he's made comparisons to segregation, slavery, and now somehow pedophilia. At this point, I honestly think the OP is trolling." @ DoubleReed And "the OP asked a question, got his answer, and he's clearly not happy with the response, unless of course he made this thread in order to have his own little debate on speech." @ jdseemoreglass Is this not my free speech and should be encouraged? My honest answer- I think better than reporting players is create a forum or thread for it to be discussed to educate each other about the effects of things. I should have put that up there as a poll answer. Sorry if you feel otherwise. Either way, I'd say it's better than not caring at all. So your purpose of making this thread was to educate us neanderthals who don't know "about the effects of things," that we aren't aggressive enough towards stupid people online? Maybe you are the one who needs to be educated, and learn to accept speech you don't like from other people, instead of feeling the knee-jerk response to do something to stop them. The "effects" of someone saying something stupid online depends entirely on your chosen response to such statements. | ||
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OsoVega
926 Posts
On July 12 2011 11:20 sailorferret wrote: One last thing- If "Okay, he's made comparisons to segregation, slavery, and now somehow pedophilia. At this point, I honestly think the OP is trolling." @ DoubleReed And "the OP asked a question, got his answer, and he's clearly not happy with the response, unless of course he made this thread in order to have his own little debate on speech." @ jdseemoreglass Is this not my free speech and should be encouraged? My honest answer- I think better than reporting players is create a forum or thread for it to be discussed to educate each other about the effects of things. I should have put that up there as a poll answer. Sorry if you feel otherwise. Either way, I'd say it's better than not caring at all. Just because you're allowed to say stupid shit and it's good that you are allowed to say stupid shit doesn't mean it should be encouraged. I'm sorry that you're sorry that we feel either way. I'd say not caring at all is the best option. | ||
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