EPTAnyways, don't act like the prize money is the only incentive. Being in the finals yourself is still much favorable to pocketing free money for losing. It's not even match fixing as much as it's risk mitigation.
Should "Deal Making" be illegal? - Page 7
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Fyodor
Canada971 Posts
Anyways, don't act like the prize money is the only incentive. Being in the finals yourself is still much favorable to pocketing free money for losing. It's not even match fixing as much as it's risk mitigation. | ||
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pksens
United Kingdom156 Posts
sponsors, fame etc. obviously, sorry I had to point out the obvious And yet, the real victims of this are the lower scaled tournaments. One that Pros don't have on their checklist of "Must try to win" but still offer a decent prize pool. Do you seriously think you have all the incentives in the world to win, when theres minimal fame on the line? No, in these situations it's plainly obvious that the viewers & tournament gets shit on. It's still highly debatable whether or not you will invest 100% emotion, energy and determination to win a final of a more prestigious finals. | ||
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flodeskum
Iceland1267 Posts
The only way to reduce the chances of it happening is to make your tournament prize structure less top-heavy. Which tournaments should be doing anyway. | ||
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TT1
Canada10104 Posts
On September 02 2011 07:57 ToD wrote: Splitting when meeting a teammate in finals of a tour is standard imo, ofcourse both players should feel as motivated to take the championship as usual otherwise the finals might be ruined, i remember splitting in the finals of at least 2 major tournaments in WC3 which i actually ended up winning, one of them actually was 30k$ for first prize, i kept my word, went to the bank and wired what was agreed to Grubby. <3 ^^ its not a question of the act but of who commited the act.. and apart from 1 game(which was a 2base carrier not 1) the rest of the series was completly standard i know i said i wouldnt post anymore but i promise this is my last post | ||
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Angelbelow
United States3728 Posts
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DEN1ED
United States1087 Posts
On September 02 2011 08:05 Looms wrote: what is the incentive to use your best builds, secret strats, special tactics if the money ISNT on the line? Maybe that fact the progamers are extremely competitive people, they hate losing, don't want do be humiliated in front of thousands of people watching, and winning a large tournament will make sponsors very happy. People act like money is the only reason tournaments exist. | ||
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TumbaSC
United States78 Posts
On September 02 2011 07:45 ahx wrote: If this is actually happening, that's pretty stupid. I wouldn't split my winnings with anyone so the "pressure" was relieved, why the hell are you a professional gamer if you can't handle a finals match? You don't understand because you don't play a game FOR A LIVING. When I was a pro poker player all I did was chop. It's the reality of having to get by. I still played every bit as hard to be #1, however if the deal gives you an equitable advantage in money for time, why would you not take it? Especially if you feel you are a dog. Deals are going to happen plain and simple. It's just like poker. Before you judge these pros walk a mile in their shoes. | ||
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TuElite
Canada2123 Posts
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sixfour
England11062 Posts
On September 02 2011 08:10 piknic wrote: I still don't agree with the practice on principle but I suppose the reality of the situation is that prize pools simply just are not large enough and I suppose this is perhaps even necessary it's not that the prize pools aren't big enough, they are, but they're just not arranged sensibly. current gsl has the semi finalists winning $4.5k, the runner up winning $18.5k, and the winner taking $46k. which is insanely top heavy. if they just made it so that the winner took $30k, runner up $20k, and the semi finalists $10k, nobody would need to deal. ffs, i've dealt in the final of a £50 winner takes all pool comp. it is reducing variance in an ultra high variance environment. you'd be crazy not to. | ||
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Ownos
United States2147 Posts
On September 02 2011 08:13 KingVietKong wrote: Would it have been alright for Nestea and Losira to split the difference and not give a shit in the last GSL Finals? It's shitty behavior. It's not match fixing, because it doesn't necessarily mean the players will give shitty games since it doesn't matter. It's probably largely inconsequential. But as TT1 said, he threw a game with a carrier rush because he didn't care. It's one of those things that can be justified and explained with a bit of reason and a lot of semantics, which is something I'm always wary of. They could always deny that they made a deal and the winner just felt generous to his teammate which is something you can't exactly stop. | ||
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Cite
Australia251 Posts
On September 02 2011 08:15 Angelbelow wrote: Lol so much drama involving TT1, which game or tourney did he throw this "1 base carrier" game in? Just curious. I think it was the Gamecune lan: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=173752 going off that post | ||
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FearTheReaperMan
154 Posts
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intotheheart
Canada33091 Posts
On September 02 2011 08:16 DEN1ED wrote: Maybe that fact the progamers are extremely competitive people, they hate losing, don't want do be humiliated in front of thousands of people watching, and winning a large tournament will make sponsors very happy. People act like money is the only reason tournaments exist. Yeah, I think this is overlooked. There's a difference between a pro-gamer and the rest of us, and it's not purely skill. It's aptitude. They don't like losing so they do their best NOT TO unless it's with a very close friend. Imo winning games a tournament sometimes WOULD be the only incentive. Hasn't NesTea said that he wanted to win as many GSLs as possible and that he didn't give a damn about the prize pool? | ||
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ToD
France222 Posts
On September 02 2011 08:13 KingVietKong wrote: Would it have been alright for Nestea and Losira to split the difference and not give a shit in the last GSL Finals? It's shitty behavior. It's not match fixing, because it doesn't necessarily mean the players will give shitty games since it doesn't matter. It's probably largely inconsequential. But as TT1 said, he threw a game with a carrier rush because he didn't care. It's one of those things that can be justified and explained with a bit of reason and a lot of semantics, which is something I'm always wary of. having lived in Korea as long as i have and being quite familiar with how Korean progamers proceeded in Warcraft, i'm gonna guess that it's very likely they did split, then again its very player dependant, some players don't like the idea. About the carrier rush i agree that its not acceptable and retarded, but maybe TT1 was on tilt ? i dunno , we don't know the reasons of why he made such a strat, maybe he had been watching whitera's special taktiks on stream too much, regardless i dont think we should judge without knowing the facts. | ||
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neo_sporin
United States516 Posts
I think 50/50 splits are just stupid, that completely takes away any reason to be competitive, if its a 60/ In my opinion though if its a tournament OF ANY KIND that is winner take all that deals should not be done, not illegal, just dont do it as it completely takes away from the spirit of the competition. | ||
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StutteR
United States1903 Posts
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Fugue
Australia253 Posts
On September 02 2011 08:13 ToD wrote: match fixing : agreeing to who wins the match, so that includes someone throwing the game = not ok at all prizemoney splitting : both players try their best to win, the best way to do it is not to split 50/50 but like 45/55 and trust me at the highest level championships matter so much to players that even if #1 and #2 would get the same money, they would still probably try their best in the finals. Considering you've just suggested an uneven split, would you say the prize pool distribution is the main problem? | ||
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MajorityofOne
Canada2506 Posts
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Stropheum
United States1124 Posts
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OS.Commander
Colombia45 Posts
I don't think it would make the finals any less 'good' because both players would STILL WANT TO GET FIRST place for the fame and recognition. Plus, part of the value of the player (in other words, how much teams will offer him in the future) is based on his past tournament standings, so every player would still have the incentive to try as hard as he could to get first place. Sometimes the difference between first and second place is 10 or 20k and both players are actually pretty even in terms of skill, so why should it be illegal to play it smart and safe? After saying all that, I do think that if players do this they should never make it public, because it would be extremely bad for their reputation. But making it illegal is just ridiculous. Human beings don't have to regulate every part of life. Edit. On a side note, I think 'match-making' is a terrible thing and definitely should be illegal. | ||
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