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Should "Deal Making" be illegal? - Page 75

Forum Index > SC2 General
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risk.nuke
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden2825 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-03 13:00:10
September 03 2011 12:51 GMT
#1481
Some time ago when I were more active, there were alot of tournaments that didn't even have a second place money price. And tournaments with disproportionately large differences between 1 and 2,3 & 4th price. This is where it started.

As I recall it, deals where beeing made all the time between the players to split the pool once they got down to Ro8 or so with the share based on final placement.

This is not Matchfixing which we don't need a bloody vote to decide what we think about.

OP is confusing alot of people by not clearing out what deal making really is. And what in hell is an unpurer form of matchfixing anyway?

Edit: + Show Spoiler +
If I may also add, that if two people finalists wants share the money and settle their final with some unserious games. That's their choice to make, it's their reputation and their fans thats going to feel the effects.
Neo.G Soulkey, Best, firebathero. // http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31
Fubi
Profile Joined March 2011
2228 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-03 12:55:54
September 03 2011 12:54 GMT
#1482
On September 03 2011 09:48 Truedot wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 03 2011 09:43 applejuice wrote:
On September 03 2011 09:36 Fubi wrote:
On September 03 2011 09:33 applejuice wrote:
On September 03 2011 09:30 ReignFayth wrote:
On September 03 2011 09:27 Saturnize wrote:
Been reading through most of this thread. I see the argument "well its their money they can do what they want with it so deal with it!!!!!!!!!!" a lot in this thread as if we are arguing about the ethics of it vs whether it is something that will degrade competitive SC2 in the long run/make it less exciting if there is always going to be that stigma of two 1/2 placers agreeing to split the stash. While it may be with in their rights to do whatever they want to with the money, it does make competitive SC2 look really lame compared to any other competitive event like golf or poker when you have people agreeing to throw matches in order to get a share of the 1st prize. Do I blame these actions when you look at how much a top 10 SC2 progamer makes in relation to a sub 100 golfer makes? Of course not! When you get bigger prizepools and more cash finishes I think that there will be less of an incentive to "rig matches" than there will be in a tournament with a smaller prizepool.

Most of the people in this thread want to argue the ethics/morals of what people do with their own money vs if it is good for the professional SC2 scene in the long run. I think that if SC2 is ever to be taken "seriously" people need to stop "fixing" these games.

just my 2 cents.

once again

nobody talked about fixing games or rigging matches... just altering the prize money for 1st and 2nd



It's like playing poker without real money to back it up. It doesn't work.

It's a moot point whether the match is actually fixed or not, the competition is going to suck either way.

Not a moot point. The difference is, fixing games and rigging matches are usually illegal or at the minimum, against tournament rules, but there is no rules regarding splitting your prize money. The money is yours and you can split it however you want.


...but there is no rules regarding splitting your prize money. The money is yours and you can split it however you want.

While your straw man is intriguing, the split you are referring to occurs before the match begins, not after. It's a fix.


pretty much. you're saying to split money you don't yet have, creating a third party in the agreement between you and the tournament holders who you signed a contract with. And since you don't tell the tournament holders beforehand, and since they can't know about this deal and modify their contract, its fraud..

Or else, why would any SC2 player keep it from the tournament holders. I assume that if its not wrong, people would just tell the tournament holders, "hey, me and my teammate have an agreement to split the winnings". Why don't SC players do this, so that the tournament holders know what they're paying for, i.e. two people who will not play competitively and just split the prize after? because they know they will get told they can't compete as long as they have that agreement.

Show nested quote +
If you can't, there's no need to be rude.


If you can't make a good counterargument, call the other person rude. makes sense.


Again I ask, why don't these "pros" tell the tournament holders about the deal so that the tournament holders have FULL DISCLOSURE of what they're paying for? I can see bullshit a mile away, I used to have a grandparent with the same mentality of "what they don't know is fine, as long as we make money".

I don't find it amusing that you're this base.

The Tournament Holders are paying the winner, and that is all there is to it. The winner (who actually played REAL games, ie non-fixed), then can decide whatever the hell he wants with the money he won. He may decide to treat his teammate to a high-class fancy feast, buy him a present as a consolidating gift, or straight out give him half of the money, what is the difference and what is wrong with this?

The main point here is, the two people are still playing actual matches to win, and the winner still receives full prize money. The money is then his, and he can decide what he wants with it, there is nothing wrong here. From the tournament holder's point of view, they are paying out the exact amount of money to the winner regardless of the situation, there is no difference for them.
pecore
Profile Joined May 2010
Germany62 Posts
September 03 2011 13:58 GMT
#1483
I understand why players who make these deals do them. It probably makes sense to them to minimize risk/variance of their profession and this will probably only happen with team mates, close friends or relatives. Additionally as many people have pointed out already you can't really make it 'illegal' as it is not possible or at very least extremely hard to prove this happened (much like it was a mess with forbidden 'team orders' in formula 1).

Nevertheless I dislike the idea. I feel this is some kind of bad sportsmanship. I admit this is only true if the deal affects how the games are played, but simply stating that 'usually' this doesnt affect the game 'at all' is a bit naive in my eyes.

In the end no one should even talk about this or defend it or whatever. This can't be stopped anyway. So people who feel they need to do it, do it properly and give us exciting finals nonetheless. If a deal like this becomes public because one player 'threw' the game I think people have a right to complain about it. And in my oppinion it is not cool to proudly defend this behaviour.

I hope StarCraft 2 will come to a point where each and every pro gamer can enjoy a minimum amount of stability through this profession and deals like this are not even 'necessary' anymore.
Dont Panic!
Jibba
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States22883 Posts
September 03 2011 14:06 GMT
#1484
This thread has been stuck on loop for a while now and it's only getting further stuck in the mud. Most people are getting caught up on semantics, which makes for a silly discussion. Even if you don't think players should share their money, there is no recourse against it and there's no way for you to know. If they put up obviously silly games with Mothership rushes and so on, then criticize them for that.
ModeratorNow I'm distant, dark in this anthrobeat
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