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In a recent thread it has been stated that is is quite acceptable behaviour, in the eyes of some SC2 Professionals, to prearrange the finals match of a tournament to be a non-competition in the spirit of "friendliness" between the 2 said competitors such that they can split the total winnings of the tournament between the of them, regardless of the outcome of the game.
A couple of quotes from current competing players:
we made the agreed BEFORE the tournament had started, this is something that is common which several other players from different teams have done aswell.. just gotta know who your dealing with i guess =] i learned my lesson tho
when the money becomes fairly significant to 2 teammates and they are playing each other, agreeing to splitting money sounds like the most reasonable move imo, unless they can afford to gamble 5000$
Now, seeing as this is a purely community driven spectator online gaming industry, surely the opinion of the spectators are what count the most?
I ask of you TL, to shed your opinion:
Poll: Do you consider "Deal Making" a form of "Match fixing"? Not as bad as match fixing, but still quite wrong (834) 40% No (707) 34% Yes (563) 27% 2104 total votes Your vote: Do you consider "Deal Making" a form of "Match fixing"? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): Not as bad as match fixing, but still quite wrong
The term "Match Fixing" is quite contentious, I am fully aware, because the purest form of Match fixing is to predetermine the victor or loser, or any small controllable element in a game, for which there can be benefit to someone such as betting or tournament point distribution.
There is the perception that in the interest of 2 friends, or 2 teammates who's livelihood rests with income generated within the game that in the interest of trust or friendship they can both mutually agree to split the winnings if they think it is likely, or actually any possibility, that they meet in the finals.
The problem that immediately occurs with this is a "Fake" finals. When 2 competitors no longer have the motivation or requirement to compete in the final, because the outcome is essentially irrelevant, is that the viewers are immediately robbed of any form of meaningful "Match".
Now I know this might not be a big deal to many people, that many poker players here might feel an affinity to this particular situation because in a long tournament when you get to the final table, to the last few or 2 competitors that splitting the prize is a common thing and an understandable thing. But for a game like SC2 which is totally dependent on being a honest & watchable spectator sport in order to succeed, surely this is wrong on every level?
More polls:
Poll: Should this be illegal?Yes (1062) 64% No (483) 29% Don't care, not a big deal. (116) 7% 1661 total votes Your vote: Should this be illegal? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): Don't care, not a big deal.
TL;DR: I'm surprised to witness out of the mouth of a couple of pro's that they believe match "dealing" is acceptable, happens multiple times in the past & will continue to in future. Theres a problem defining this as "match fixing" when it that can be thrown in the same pool as "betting scandal". It's a big pool.
But all in all, I considering it cheating, regardless of the definitions of match fixing or deal making. It's pointless to debate on the semantics of it, so it merely becomes the question of whether or not we accept it, do we punish it and or do we turn a blind eye to it.
Please don't turn this into a "This progamer cheated X out of money!!" or "This gamer is an excheater bla bla bla." Those guys made their beds, let them sleep in it, what really worries me is the frequency of this happening in general, how much it happens and if it's really possible to clamp down on it so it's unfair to make this into a witch hunt or anything else when we need to understand the whole scope of it.
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Where's the incentive to play better if it's the same either way? Plus it defeats the purpose of rewarding the winner, when the loser earns equal shares.
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You can't do anything about it and it's very hard to prove anything.
It's not as bad as match-fixing (not even close) but the games will most likely be less entertaining if they don't try as hard.
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When the difference between first and second is huge and both of them think its basically a 50/50 chance I can see why they would want to split the winnings instead. Playing without nerves will probably make better games for the spectators anyway.
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your tl;dr didn't help me understand the situation at all :/
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What tourney is this in reference too?
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On September 02 2011 07:34 nkulu wrote:
When the difference between first and second is huge and both of them think its basically a 50/50 chance I can see why they would want to split the winnings instead. Playing without nerves will probably make better games for the spectators anyway.
wheres your proof of this?
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I do agree with you, to me this basically is the same as match fixing. It takes the excitement out of the game as both players aren't really fighting for their money. Thereby I feel kinda cheated if this happens. You are made to believe that they battle for 1st place spot with grand prize. Then behind the scenes they just split the money. It should be illegal.
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Fans shouldn't approve of it. Any reassurance a player has of easy money* in a tournament will undoubtedly affect performance whether they notice it, admit to it, or neither.
*easy money being a larger sum of money should you pool your earnings together with someone who places above you
But now I've said my piece, and I will leave this thread for good. I just don't care for any of the shitty drama that has been stirred up recently.
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This is the same thing with anything when gambling in sports or anywhere. Making a deal PRE-Match/Game/Whatever is ILLEGAL.
I don't see how this isn't Match Fixing. When people make deals so that it will benefit BOTH parties, that is Match Fixing.
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Certainly should be illegal IMO if it isn't already.
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i feel that if the two players are on the same team, its completely acceptable since you will be good friends and dont want to make any difficulties between you.
not entirely sure how i feel about it happening in other ways though since it could affect how 'good' a series/final could be since players may just mess around and not play seriously.
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I think making it illegal is going to be impossible since you can't really tell people what to do with their money.
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I'm fine with people making a deal to share prize pool, for example, X and Y are in the finals of a tourney for 15 Billion dollars (the future of eSports), and they agree to play their normal game and see who wins. Second place is 10 billion. Y loses, X wins, and because X and Y are buddies X shares 5 billion with his good friend Y. What a bro.
I'm not fine with people throwing games because of this deal. Anything that ruins the viewing experience for no good reason other then that of the players personal benefit is wrong in my opinion.
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It's an absolutely shitty thing to do, and the proof is in that they are never official ...
If it was 'okay' the would just announce it before the match for everyone to know, and you'd see the reactions ...
To me it's pretty much the same as match fixing ...
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Honestly I think the answer is fairly obvious: duh.
Better question is how can we prevent it from happening? Pretty sure those guilty would a choose to stream the skype call and disclose a deal.
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It's funny because the winner ends up getting screwed.
If the winner wins 10k, he has to pay taxes on all of that. 2nd place only has to pay on whatever he wins. So 2nd place actually ends up making more. It would be a preference to lose then.
Also, yes, definitely a form of match-fixing.
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I don't think that deal making will make for boring games for the spectators. If anything, it should make the players more relaxed and give them the confidence to play some crowd pleasing styles as opposed to the same old established meta game that the audience has seen thousands of times before.
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My problem with it is that it often leads to matches being played differently than they would if the deal wasn't in place. TT1 commented about going 1 base carrier against fenix in the tournament everyone was talking about. That is absurd and wrong.
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this isn't poker....you cant split the prize when you don't feel like playing anymore.
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EPT
