On September 02 2011 07:39 ClydeFrog wrote: this isn't poker....you cant split the prize when you don't feel like playing anymore.
you can split any amount of money you like in any fucking thing as long as both agrees to play their best
When the money given to you is directly tied into spectators WANTING to watch your game, I can't understand how selfish you sound right now. In any thing? How about a GSL finals? TSL3 finals? Both go 6pool vs 1base carrier? You shit on the people that tune in, pay money in the instances of Gom/NASL/MLG, just to watch a farce?
Give me a break.
You are on a pro team, I really hope this isn't something you all agree with over on in Reign. You riled me up, grats.
get ready to hate on every fucking pro gamer out there, have fun
Really, care to back this up with any solid information? Although thanks for the heads up, won't be cheering Reign on in anything going forward.
Well, ToD's already said he's done it before with Grubby:
On September 02 2011 07:57 ToD wrote: Splitting when meeting a teammate in finals of a tour is standard imo, ofcourse both players should feel as motivated to take the championship as usual otherwise the finals might be ruined, i remember splitting in the finals of at least 2 major tournaments in WC3 which i actually ended up winning, one of them actually was 30k$ for first prize, i kept my word, went to the bank and wired what was agreed to Grubby.
On September 02 2011 07:39 ClydeFrog wrote: this isn't poker....you cant split the prize when you don't feel like playing anymore.
Um, why not? Because people say so? And just because they players agree to split doesn't mean they won't be trying to win. Getting 1st place gets you much more fame/prestige than getting 2nd. You always hear progamers in interviews say that they play to win and the money is just bonus. And there is also NO way you can stop it from happening. If two friends/teammates are in the finals and 1st get 2k and 2nd gets 1k, the player who gets 1st can just give his friend $500, cause he's a nice friend and is feeling generous after winning so much money.
I don't care about things that can't be policed or enforced. If players want to even split 1st and 2nd place and just play for fun, it's basically impossible to stop that. Now, traditionally I prefer the idea of doing a 60-40 split when I'm up for 1st/2nd of a tournament because the distribution is close, but still gives incentive to play your best and not just feel like wasting time.
On September 02 2011 07:39 ClydeFrog wrote: this isn't poker....you cant split the prize when you don't feel like playing anymore.
you can split any amount of money you like in any fucking thing as long as both agrees to play their best
When the money given to you is directly tied into spectators WANTING to watch your game, I can't understand how selfish you sound right now. In any thing? How about a GSL finals? TSL3 finals? Both go 6pool vs 1base carrier? You shit on the people that tune in, pay money in the instances of Gom/NASL/MLG, just to watch a farce?
Give me a break.
You are on a pro team, I really hope this isn't something you all agree with over on in Reign. You riled me up, grats.
get ready to hate on every fucking pro gamer out there, have fun
Really, care to back this up with any solid information? Although thanks for the heads up, won't be cheering Reign on in anything going forward.
reign, eg, mouz, dignitas, slayers
whatever man, just hate on people for trying to reduce variance in a lifestyle where money isn't abundant
it's not like you really know what's going on, you won't even realize it, most pros will still play to win in the finals even if the prize has been split
what is the incentive to use your best builds, secret strats, special tactics if the money ISNT on the line?
If the money difference is really high and you generally go 50:50 with the other guy, i think it'd be dumb not to split with him. At the moment, most tournaments are winner takes a majority of the money and the game is still quite volatile. Also if the other guy backs off can't you sue him because you made an oral agreement?
On September 02 2011 07:39 ClydeFrog wrote: this isn't poker....you cant split the prize when you don't feel like playing anymore.
you can split any amount of money you like in any fucking thing as long as both agrees to play their best
When the money given to you is directly tied into spectators WANTING to watch your game, I can't understand how selfish you sound right now. In any thing? How about a GSL finals? TSL3 finals? Both go 6pool vs 1base carrier? You shit on the people that tune in, pay money in the instances of Gom/NASL/MLG, just to watch a farce?
Give me a break.
You are on a pro team, I really hope this isn't something you all agree with over on in Reign. You riled me up, grats.
get ready to hate on every fucking pro gamer out there, have fun
No wonder the foreigner talent pool is so shallow. No one gives a shit about winning.
On September 02 2011 07:39 ClydeFrog wrote: this isn't poker....you cant split the prize when you don't feel like playing anymore.
you can split any amount of money you like in any fucking thing as long as both agrees to play their best
When the money given to you is directly tied into spectators WANTING to watch your game, I can't understand how selfish you sound right now. In any thing? How about a GSL finals? TSL3 finals? Both go 6pool vs 1base carrier? You shit on the people that tune in, pay money in the instances of Gom/NASL/MLG, just to watch a farce?
Give me a break.
You are on a pro team, I really hope this isn't something you all agree with over on in Reign. You riled me up, grats.
get ready to hate on every fucking pro gamer out there, have fun
Really, care to back this up with any solid information? Although thanks for the heads up, won't be cheering Reign on in anything going forward.
You ever played a game with variance for a living? TT1 and fenix are morons if they fucked around, stop cheering for them... not the people who have to live off sc2 winnings and play their hardest. 2 top SC2 players will reach the finals of a tournament like once a year unless they are the best in the world. The difference between 1st and 2nd prize is like rent for an entire year for their family or a mortgage on a house. You tell me why you want to be pissed when they make a deal to secure less maximum money but less risk. Do you realize how pathetic you sound right now?
People who fuck around in the finals should never be invited to tournaments. It's their own fucking fault for being idiots. Hate them, not people who make deals to lessen the variance in their profession.
On September 02 2011 08:01 Fugue wrote: I think this actually highlights something - the money is too important to risk for players that consider this.
Does anyone here know how many teams pay their players a decent amount of cash for either the amount of time they're working/practicing or whether said amount (assuming they even have a wage) is good enough for living expenses and some extra things? And I mean live comfortably... healthy food and such...
On September 02 2011 07:39 ClydeFrog wrote: this isn't poker....you cant split the prize when you don't feel like playing anymore.
you can split any amount of money you like in any fucking thing as long as both agrees to play their best
When the money given to you is directly tied into spectators WANTING to watch your game, I can't understand how selfish you sound right now. In any thing? How about a GSL finals? TSL3 finals? Both go 6pool vs 1base carrier? You shit on the people that tune in, pay money in the instances of Gom/NASL/MLG, just to watch a farce?
Give me a break.
You are on a pro team, I really hope this isn't something you all agree with over on in Reign. You riled me up, grats.
get ready to hate on every fucking pro gamer out there, have fun
No offense but splitting the pot is NOT PROFESSIONAL every player should have as a goal to win a tournament, just the thought of splitting the pot before a final match to me cannot put the player in the right mindset to give his utmost.
I don't think players who do this deserve to be called progamers. (My opinion)
so let's assume you have 55% of winning against a player in the final of a tournament, your salary is pretty mediocre, 1st prize is 75 000$, 2nd prize is 25 000$ and other players agree to split
On September 02 2011 07:39 ClydeFrog wrote: this isn't poker....you cant split the prize when you don't feel like playing anymore.
you can split any amount of money you like in any fucking thing as long as both agrees to play their best
When the money given to you is directly tied into spectators WANTING to watch your game, I can't understand how selfish you sound right now. In any thing? How about a GSL finals? TSL3 finals? Both go 6pool vs 1base carrier? You shit on the people that tune in, pay money in the instances of Gom/NASL/MLG, just to watch a farce?
Give me a break.
You are on a pro team, I really hope this isn't something you all agree with over on in Reign. You riled me up, grats.
get ready to hate on every fucking pro gamer out there, have fun
Really, care to back this up with any solid information? Although thanks for the heads up, won't be cheering Reign on in anything going forward.
reign, eg, mouz, dignitas, slayers
whatever man, just hate on people for trying to reduce variance in a lifestyle where money isn't abundant
it's not like you really know what's going on, you won't even realize it, most pros will still play to win in the finals even if the prize has been split
Random names thrown out there after making a random statement. So you have nothing to point to that actually backs you up, just what ever you feel like saying to make your point, gotcha. Oh and people are realizing whats going on...ie this thread.
With the prize handouts so top-heavy, I sympathize with the players who do this. Having dedicated so much time to practicing SC2, it would be awful to have to miss out on making any money despite being one of the best players in the world.
That said, I can't agree with it as it's neither fair to the tournament hosts or the viewers. If the money is to be split it should be offered by the winner only after the finals are over. However, it's clear that these top-heavy prize handouts are incentives for players to do these things, and if E-sports is ever going to be recognized as a legitimate form of competition, players are going to have to be payed by contract rather than third-to-first place prize money. After all, how is anyone going to be enticed into becoming a progamer if there's a chance they won't ever even make any money doing it?
[Edit]: At the very least, every player who qualifies for a money-making tournament should be given a decent cash prize.
I think you are kind of getting the example you used in your thread wrong as compared to what everyone else in this thread is interpreting as "deals" as.
In your example the person states they agreed to split but then in the finals "carried him on 1 base carriers to win".... I mean that is a clear cut definition of Fixing a game - WHO EVER goes 1 base carriers in a Final against another pro? - On the other hand your definition of a deal would have been them having played a "more" normal game and at the end splitting.
I do not see how someone can look at that example and clearly ignore that one crucial line "carried on 1 base carrier" and not interpret the example as FIXING! He clearly altered his gameplay in order to let the other person get "carried on to [win]".
But in both regards it is quite unsatisfactory being the viewer and KNOWING that there are deals/fixing going on. IT just leaves that question of "Was that really them playing their best?" after the game was over.
edit - btw I believe Morrow has had an example between another pro gamer WAAAAY back where they had a legit "deal" rather than a fix of a shame this example in the OP used.
Guys don't hate on the teams so much, hate the system. There needs to be rules against this kind of thing. Just like how rules regulate all other professions, progaming won't really be a "professional" sport until this kind of thing is fixed.
As long as its kept under the table and both players put 100% effort into the finals I see no problem with it. If they are both playing their best then the 1st place player actually earned his money, since he earned the money its up to him to choose what to do with it(split with teammates etc). If both players aren't playing competitively then I feel the money isn't earned and they're robbing everyone of a proper finals game.
why is this even a thread? if first place gets $10k and second place gets $5k, it's the players money and they can do whatever they want with it. if they decide to split it 8k-7k or whatever, that's their business. players are intelligent enough to recognise that if major tournaments will set themselves up that the variance is through the roof and hugely top heavy, they will seek to minimise risk while maintaining expectation
On September 02 2011 07:39 ClydeFrog wrote: this isn't poker....you cant split the prize when you don't feel like playing anymore.
you can split any amount of money you like in any fucking thing as long as both agrees to play their best
When the money given to you is directly tied into spectators WANTING to watch your game, I can't understand how selfish you sound right now. In any thing? How about a GSL finals? TSL3 finals? Both go 6pool vs 1base carrier? You shit on the people that tune in, pay money in the instances of Gom/NASL/MLG, just to watch a farce?
Give me a break.
You are on a pro team, I really hope this isn't something you all agree with over on in Reign. You riled me up, grats.
get ready to hate on every fucking pro gamer out there, have fun
Really, care to back this up with any solid information? Although thanks for the heads up, won't be cheering Reign on in anything going forward.
reign, eg, mouz, dignitas, slayers
whatever man, just hate on people for trying to reduce variance in a lifestyle where money isn't abundant
it's not like you really know what's going on, you won't even realize it, most pros will still play to win in the finals even if the prize has been split
Random names thrown out there after making a random statement. So you have nothing to point to that actually backs you up, just what ever you feel like saying to make your point, gotcha. Oh and people are realizing whats going on...ie this thread.
so tod and grubby openly admitting they've done it isn't enough?
On September 02 2011 07:39 ClydeFrog wrote: this isn't poker....you cant split the prize when you don't feel like playing anymore.
you can split any amount of money you like in any fucking thing as long as both agrees to play their best
When the money given to you is directly tied into spectators WANTING to watch your game, I can't understand how selfish you sound right now. In any thing? How about a GSL finals? TSL3 finals? Both go 6pool vs 1base carrier? You shit on the people that tune in, pay money in the instances of Gom/NASL/MLG, just to watch a farce?
Give me a break.
You are on a pro team, I really hope this isn't something you all agree with over on in Reign. You riled me up, grats.
get ready to hate on every fucking pro gamer out there, have fun
Really, care to back this up with any solid information? Although thanks for the heads up, won't be cheering Reign on in anything going forward.
reign, eg, mouz, dignitas, slayers
whatever man, just hate on people for trying to reduce variance in a lifestyle where money isn't abundant
it's not like you really know what's going on, you won't even realize it, most pros will still play to win in the finals even if the prize has been split
what is the incentive to use your best builds, secret strats, special tactics if the money ISNT on the line?
On September 02 2011 07:39 ClydeFrog wrote: this isn't poker....you cant split the prize when you don't feel like playing anymore.
you can split any amount of money you like in any fucking thing as long as both agrees to play their best
When the money given to you is directly tied into spectators WANTING to watch your game, I can't understand how selfish you sound right now. In any thing? How about a GSL finals? TSL3 finals? Both go 6pool vs 1base carrier? You shit on the people that tune in, pay money in the instances of Gom/NASL/MLG, just to watch a farce?
Give me a break.
You are on a pro team, I really hope this isn't something you all agree with over on in Reign. You riled me up, grats.
get ready to hate on every fucking pro gamer out there, have fun
Really, care to back this up with any solid information? Although thanks for the heads up, won't be cheering Reign on in anything going forward.
reign, eg, mouz, dignitas, slayers
whatever man, just hate on people for trying to reduce variance in a lifestyle where money isn't abundant
it's not like you really know what's going on, you won't even realize it, most pros will still play to win in the finals even if the prize has been split
what is the incentive to use your best builds, secret strats, special tactics if the money ISNT on the line?
bragging rights and if its like a grand final of a GSL or WCG, even if money wasn't on the line, you bet they would try their hardest.
im ok with sharing money as long as they try to win. in the fighting game community, i recall seeing that once on stream, forget which event it was, but the two teams in the team finals didn't even play and just went to dinner instead.
EPT
