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Should "Deal Making" be illegal? - Page 6

Forum Index > SC2 General
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piknic
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada59 Posts
September 01 2011 23:10 GMT
#101
I still don't agree with the practice on principle but I suppose the reality of the situation is that prize pools simply just are not large enough and I suppose this is perhaps even necessary. I guess it just shouldn't really be discussed that much. To suggest though, that the level of competition is not diminished by this practice, I can't buy that.
Angelbelow
Profile Joined September 2010
United States3728 Posts
September 01 2011 23:10 GMT
#102
This only happens when the players are really good friends right?

I can't imagine complete strangers doing this so I dont think its big deal.

In some cases it improves the quality of play because of players are more relaxed.

I think the winner should be able to do whatever the fuck he wants with the money, this is a similar concept. Dont have a problem with it.
You may delay, but time will not. Current Music obsession: Opeth
ronpaul012
Profile Joined March 2011
United States769 Posts
September 01 2011 23:10 GMT
#103
That's absolutely fine. The majority of these guys aren't completely rolling in the dough, and if they can guarantee each other an extra 10k, whats the problem? In fact, this pretty much prevents match fixing because they'll split all the money.
I'm a gooner.
intotheheart
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Canada33091 Posts
September 01 2011 23:10 GMT
#104
On September 02 2011 08:07 ReignFayth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 02 2011 08:03 dgwow wrote:
On September 02 2011 07:59 ReignFayth wrote:
On September 02 2011 07:57 pksens wrote:
On September 02 2011 07:49 ReignFayth wrote:
On September 02 2011 07:39 ClydeFrog wrote:
this isn't poker....you cant split the prize when you don't feel like playing anymore.

you can split any amount of money you like in any fucking thing as long as both agrees to play their best


When the money given to you is directly tied into spectators WANTING to watch your game, I can't understand how selfish you sound right now. In any thing? How about a GSL finals? TSL3 finals? Both go 6pool vs 1base carrier? You shit on the people that tune in, pay money in the instances of Gom/NASL/MLG, just to watch a farce?

Give me a break.

You are on a pro team, I really hope this isn't something you all agree with over on in Reign. You riled me up, grats.

get ready to hate on every fucking pro gamer out there, have fun


No offense but splitting the pot is NOT PROFESSIONAL every player should have as a goal to win a tournament, just the thought of splitting the pot before a final match to me cannot put the player in the right mindset to give his utmost.

I don't think players who do this deserve to be called progamers. (My opinion)

so let's assume you have 55% of winning against a player in the final of a tournament, your salary is pretty mediocre, 1st prize is 75 000$, 2nd prize is 25 000$ and other players agree to split

you'd say NO just to please the spectators?


I just feel that you should be willing to give it all regardless anyway. But I would say NO just to please the spectators, yes. I don't like losing $50 000 but there's a bigger picture than my pay cheque.
kiss kiss fall in love
Herculix
Profile Joined May 2010
United States946 Posts
September 01 2011 23:11 GMT
#105
On September 02 2011 08:04 ReignFayth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 02 2011 08:01 Synwave wrote:
On September 02 2011 07:59 ReignFayth wrote:
On September 02 2011 07:57 pksens wrote:
On September 02 2011 07:49 ReignFayth wrote:
On September 02 2011 07:39 ClydeFrog wrote:
this isn't poker....you cant split the prize when you don't feel like playing anymore.

you can split any amount of money you like in any fucking thing as long as both agrees to play their best


When the money given to you is directly tied into spectators WANTING to watch your game, I can't understand how selfish you sound right now. In any thing? How about a GSL finals? TSL3 finals? Both go 6pool vs 1base carrier? You shit on the people that tune in, pay money in the instances of Gom/NASL/MLG, just to watch a farce?

Give me a break.

You are on a pro team, I really hope this isn't something you all agree with over on in Reign. You riled me up, grats.

get ready to hate on every fucking pro gamer out there, have fun

Really, care to back this up with any solid information?
Although thanks for the heads up, won't be cheering Reign on in anything going forward.

reign, eg, mouz, dignitas, slayers

whatever man, just hate on people for trying to reduce variance in a lifestyle where money isn't abundant

it's not like you really know what's going on, you won't even realize it, most pros will still play to win in the finals even if the prize has been split


see that's the problem. cuz really who cares where the money ends up? i don't watch tournaments to see where all the big money goes and i don't root for people cuz they make more money. that's their livelihood n if they can improve it, power to them. but it's a different thing entirely to throw games to make sure you're improving your livelihood. it's when you're not playing to win anymore because you're trying to weasel out more money that makes it a big deal. disagree?
fishinguy
Profile Joined November 2010
Russian Federation798 Posts
September 01 2011 23:11 GMT
#106
Like it or not, how are you going to stop it? If you are in the same clan you can meet up 2 months later and split the money when everyone has forgotten about the event. If
ThatGuy89
Profile Joined February 2011
United Kingdom1968 Posts
September 01 2011 23:11 GMT
#107
On September 02 2011 08:03 Utinni wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 02 2011 07:59 Yaki wrote:
I don't mind players splitting the money as long as it doesn't affect the quality of the final.

It already has... It's shitty knowing TT1 went 1 base carriers and lost. If he actually practiced a good strat or attempted one. He woulda earned his money.

Now knowing that TT1 wasn't giving 100 percent kind of brings down the win. Knowing that apparently a lot of pro's do this kind of brings you down.

if pro's are happy to take the less money, and not try but take 2nd instead of first its their loss tbh.Getting higher ranked should be priority to all players imo.

I bet the likesof Puma and hero at last MLG would happily have taken first spot with no prize cash just for the prestige and having the code s spot and what not
insaneMicro
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Germany761 Posts
September 01 2011 23:11 GMT
#108
On September 02 2011 08:09 ReignFayth wrote:

sponsors, fame etc.

obviously, sorry I had to point out the obvious


not to mention winning in itself is a lot of fun. Have you ever competed in anything?
(not Fayth, the guy you quoted )
"Damn I played some fine Zerg right there". -Fruitdealer
itsben
Profile Joined July 2010
435 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-01 23:12:32
September 01 2011 23:11 GMT
#109
On September 02 2011 08:10 zev318 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 02 2011 08:05 Looms wrote:
On September 02 2011 08:04 ReignFayth wrote:
On September 02 2011 08:01 Synwave wrote:
On September 02 2011 07:59 ReignFayth wrote:
On September 02 2011 07:57 pksens wrote:
On September 02 2011 07:49 ReignFayth wrote:
On September 02 2011 07:39 ClydeFrog wrote:
this isn't poker....you cant split the prize when you don't feel like playing anymore.

you can split any amount of money you like in any fucking thing as long as both agrees to play their best


When the money given to you is directly tied into spectators WANTING to watch your game, I can't understand how selfish you sound right now. In any thing? How about a GSL finals? TSL3 finals? Both go 6pool vs 1base carrier? You shit on the people that tune in, pay money in the instances of Gom/NASL/MLG, just to watch a farce?

Give me a break.

You are on a pro team, I really hope this isn't something you all agree with over on in Reign. You riled me up, grats.

get ready to hate on every fucking pro gamer out there, have fun

Really, care to back this up with any solid information?
Although thanks for the heads up, won't be cheering Reign on in anything going forward.

reign, eg, mouz, dignitas, slayers

whatever man, just hate on people for trying to reduce variance in a lifestyle where money isn't abundant

it's not like you really know what's going on, you won't even realize it, most pros will still play to win in the finals even if the prize has been split


what is the incentive to use your best builds, secret strats, special tactics if the money ISNT on the line?


bragging rights and if its like a grand final of a GSL or WCG, even if money wasn't on the line, you bet they would try their hardest.

im ok with sharing money as long as they try to win. in the fighting game community, i recall seeing that once on stream, forget which event it was, but the two teams in the team finals didn't even play and just went to dinner instead.


It was a really late and the tournament was just a side tournament (not that much money) and unofficial (no evo points or anything). Assuming same tournament of course. Quite different than a big tournament and grand finals.
babybell
Profile Joined June 2011
776 Posts
September 01 2011 23:12 GMT
#110
Maybe they should organize events and then randomize the results. Then they could even not bother sending the prize money to the random winners and just splitting them equally from the beginning. Viewers are welcome to watch consecutive 2 second games commented by Day 9 who can act suprised that one player left the game every single time it happens. Of course the players need not show up. They can have their dogs clicking join game and leave game.
TERRANLOL
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States626 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-01 23:13:07
September 01 2011 23:12 GMT
#111
Why are we at liberty to tell the progamers what to do with the money they earn? It's not like the money is just some gift. They have to make money. It's their job.
ToD
Profile Joined December 2008
France222 Posts
September 01 2011 23:13 GMT
#112
match fixing : agreeing to who wins the match, so that includes someone throwing the game = not ok at all
prizemoney splitting : both players try their best to win, the best way to do it is not to split 50/50 but like 45/55 and trust me at the highest level championships matter so much to players that even if #1 and #2 would get the same money, they would still probably try their best in the finals.

Commentator
ROOTFayth
Profile Joined January 2004
Canada3351 Posts
September 01 2011 23:13 GMT
#113
On September 02 2011 08:11 Herculix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 02 2011 08:04 ReignFayth wrote:
On September 02 2011 08:01 Synwave wrote:
On September 02 2011 07:59 ReignFayth wrote:
On September 02 2011 07:57 pksens wrote:
On September 02 2011 07:49 ReignFayth wrote:
On September 02 2011 07:39 ClydeFrog wrote:
this isn't poker....you cant split the prize when you don't feel like playing anymore.

you can split any amount of money you like in any fucking thing as long as both agrees to play their best


When the money given to you is directly tied into spectators WANTING to watch your game, I can't understand how selfish you sound right now. In any thing? How about a GSL finals? TSL3 finals? Both go 6pool vs 1base carrier? You shit on the people that tune in, pay money in the instances of Gom/NASL/MLG, just to watch a farce?

Give me a break.

You are on a pro team, I really hope this isn't something you all agree with over on in Reign. You riled me up, grats.

get ready to hate on every fucking pro gamer out there, have fun

Really, care to back this up with any solid information?
Although thanks for the heads up, won't be cheering Reign on in anything going forward.

reign, eg, mouz, dignitas, slayers

whatever man, just hate on people for trying to reduce variance in a lifestyle where money isn't abundant

it's not like you really know what's going on, you won't even realize it, most pros will still play to win in the finals even if the prize has been split


see that's the problem. cuz really who cares where the money ends up? i don't watch tournaments to see where all the big money goes and i don't root for people cuz they make more money. that's their livelihood n if they can improve it, power to them. but it's a different thing entirely to throw games to make sure you're improving your livelihood. it's when you're not playing to win anymore because you're trying to weasel out more money that makes it a big deal. disagree?

I totally agree that throwing games is fucking stupid, but really though most pro gamers are highly competitive and very few will actually throw games even if there is no more prize money involved (there is still some extra equity from getting first, sponsors etc.)
Tschis
Profile Joined November 2010
Brazil1511 Posts
September 01 2011 23:13 GMT
#114
I don't think it's wrong, but I don't think it's good for the sport. Besides, they can just play the games in a competitive way and just share the money anyways.

"A coward is not someone that runs from a battle knowing he will lose. A coward is someone who challenges a weak knowing he will win."
babylon
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
8765 Posts
September 01 2011 23:13 GMT
#115
On September 02 2011 08:07 Synwave wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 02 2011 08:04 ReignFayth wrote:
On September 02 2011 08:01 Synwave wrote:
On September 02 2011 07:59 ReignFayth wrote:
On September 02 2011 07:57 pksens wrote:
On September 02 2011 07:49 ReignFayth wrote:
On September 02 2011 07:39 ClydeFrog wrote:
this isn't poker....you cant split the prize when you don't feel like playing anymore.

you can split any amount of money you like in any fucking thing as long as both agrees to play their best


When the money given to you is directly tied into spectators WANTING to watch your game, I can't understand how selfish you sound right now. In any thing? How about a GSL finals? TSL3 finals? Both go 6pool vs 1base carrier? You shit on the people that tune in, pay money in the instances of Gom/NASL/MLG, just to watch a farce?

Give me a break.

You are on a pro team, I really hope this isn't something you all agree with over on in Reign. You riled me up, grats.

get ready to hate on every fucking pro gamer out there, have fun

Really, care to back this up with any solid information?
Although thanks for the heads up, won't be cheering Reign on in anything going forward.

reign, eg, mouz, dignitas, slayers

whatever man, just hate on people for trying to reduce variance in a lifestyle where money isn't abundant

it's not like you really know what's going on, you won't even realize it, most pros will still play to win in the finals even if the prize has been split


Random names thrown out there after making a random statement. So you have nothing to point to that actually backs you up, just what ever you feel like saying to make your point, gotcha.
Oh and people are realizing whats going on...ie this thread.

Did you not read the thread? ToD has said that he thinks this practice is standard and has said he's made deals with Grubby before, one of them involving a $30k first prize.
KingVietKong
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States170 Posts
September 01 2011 23:13 GMT
#116
Would it have been alright for Nestea and Losira to split the difference and not give a shit in the last GSL Finals?

It's shitty behavior. It's not match fixing, because it doesn't necessarily mean the players will give shitty games since it doesn't matter. It's probably largely inconsequential. But as TT1 said, he threw a game with a carrier rush because he didn't care.

It's one of those things that can be justified and explained with a bit of reason and a lot of semantics, which is something I'm always wary of.
cyprin
Profile Joined July 2010
United States1105 Posts
September 01 2011 23:14 GMT
#117
On September 02 2011 08:13 ToD wrote:
match fixing : agreeing to who wins the match, so that includes someone throwing the game = not ok at all
prizemoney splitting : both players try their best to win, the best way to do it is not to split 50/50 but like 45/55 and trust me at the highest level championships matter so much to players that even if #1 and #2 would get the same money, they would still probably try their best in the finals.




would you not agree that what tt1 did was match fixing?
he threw at least one of the games by going one base carrier
Mioraka
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada1353 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-01 23:15:41
September 01 2011 23:14 GMT
#118
Is it illegal? I don't know, I'd assume yes.

Should it be illegal? Most definitely yes, it affects the validity and integrity of a tournament, and they must be protected.

With that being said.

Am I strongly against it as a spectator? Weirdly enough, no. As long as the results are not predetermined, I don't feel terribly offended.

However, I believe a lot of people would feel strongly against this, and rightfully so. And their interest should be respected too.
Utinni
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada1196 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-01 23:16:13
September 01 2011 23:15 GMT
#119
On September 02 2011 08:04 ReignFayth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 02 2011 08:01 Synwave wrote:
On September 02 2011 07:59 ReignFayth wrote:
On September 02 2011 07:57 pksens wrote:
On September 02 2011 07:49 ReignFayth wrote:
On September 02 2011 07:39 ClydeFrog wrote:
this isn't poker....you cant split the prize when you don't feel like playing anymore.

you can split any amount of money you like in any fucking thing as long as both agrees to play their best


When the money given to you is directly tied into spectators WANTING to watch your game, I can't understand how selfish you sound right now. In any thing? How about a GSL finals? TSL3 finals? Both go 6pool vs 1base carrier? You shit on the people that tune in, pay money in the instances of Gom/NASL/MLG, just to watch a farce?

Give me a break.

You are on a pro team, I really hope this isn't something you all agree with over on in Reign. You riled me up, grats.

get ready to hate on every fucking pro gamer out there, have fun

Really, care to back this up with any solid information?
Although thanks for the heads up, won't be cheering Reign on in anything going forward.

reign, eg, mouz, dignitas, slayers

whatever man, just hate on people for trying to reduce variance in a lifestyle where money isn't abundant

it's not like you really know what's going on, you won't even realize it, most pros will still play to win in the finals even if the prize has been split

What has Reign actually won? some team arenas? Either way... weird.

Edit: sorta sounded dickish but I just don't see them having an opportunity to split the pot I guess
“... you don’t have to be Sun freakin Tzu to know that real fighting isn’t about killing or even hurting the other guy, it’s about scaring him enough to call it a day.” - Max Brooks: World War Z
-orb-
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
United States5770 Posts
September 01 2011 23:15 GMT
#120
On September 02 2011 08:13 ToD wrote:
match fixing : agreeing to who wins the match, so that includes someone throwing the game = not ok at all
prizemoney splitting : both players try their best to win, the best way to do it is not to split 50/50 but like 45/55 and trust me at the highest level championships matter so much to players that even if #1 and #2 would get the same money, they would still probably try their best in the finals.



I think this is a pretty important point people are overlooking.

What professional player is actually going to just not try in the finals of a huge tournament just because it won't affect how much money they make? Your name as a player, your reputation, and your ego are all essentially at stake. Players don't get sponsors and teams because they have money, they get them for winning tournaments. I'm pretty sure every player is going to want to win those big tournaments enough to try their hardest.
'life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery'
how sad that sc2 has no shield battery :(
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