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On August 14 2025 18:53 Harris1st wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2025 15:44 Optimus Prime2 wrote:On August 14 2025 07:37 WombaT wrote:
I personally really enjoyed season 1. I think Tasteless was more energised than I’ve seen him for a while,
I’m interested to see where they go moving forwards. With his salary for 2h casting a day, anyone would be. Games were super bad and not exciting, Clem just gave up twice in a row with Classic, other series were just a roflstomps. Only real good series was Classic vs ByuN. But even there, it feels like Classic wasn't been playing his full strength with a lead, and gave ByuN too many chances for comeback, so it went 2-0 > 3-2 You think this tournament is a scam because the games were not to your liking? Do you even hear yourself?
thats your idea, not mine. i didnt connect players line up / games quality with money transparency.
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Northern Ireland26535 Posts
On August 14 2025 22:33 Optimus Prime2 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2025 18:53 Harris1st wrote:On August 14 2025 15:44 Optimus Prime2 wrote:On August 14 2025 07:37 WombaT wrote:
I personally really enjoyed season 1. I think Tasteless was more energised than I’ve seen him for a while,
I’m interested to see where they go moving forwards. With his salary for 2h casting a day, anyone would be. Games were super bad and not exciting, Clem just gave up twice in a row with Classic, other series were just a roflstomps. Only real good series was Classic vs ByuN. But even there, it feels like Classic wasn't been playing his full strength with a lead, and gave ByuN too many chances for comeback, so it went 2-0 > 3-2 You think this tournament is a scam because the games were not to your liking? Do you even hear yourself? thats your idea, not mine. i didnt connect players line up / games quality with money transparency.
No, you merely brought it up in a thread about just that topic, which you yourself started.
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On August 14 2025 23:15 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2025 22:33 Optimus Prime2 wrote:On August 14 2025 18:53 Harris1st wrote:On August 14 2025 15:44 Optimus Prime2 wrote:On August 14 2025 07:37 WombaT wrote:
I personally really enjoyed season 1. I think Tasteless was more energised than I’ve seen him for a while,
I’m interested to see where they go moving forwards. With his salary for 2h casting a day, anyone would be. Games were super bad and not exciting, Clem just gave up twice in a row with Classic, other series were just a roflstomps. Only real good series was Classic vs ByuN. But even there, it feels like Classic wasn't been playing his full strength with a lead, and gave ByuN too many chances for comeback, so it went 2-0 > 3-2 You think this tournament is a scam because the games were not to your liking? Do you even hear yourself? thats your idea, not mine. i didnt connect players line up / games quality with money transparency. No, you merely brought it up in a thread about just that topic, which you yourself started.
i just replyed to a guy, who was overly excited on season 1 and upcoming season 2 , which was just mediocre level at its best and line up is not getting better.
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On August 14 2025 17:40 MJG wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2025 00:01 RogueTheGOAT wrote:
If your crowdfunding pays out 5 different individuals more than the sum paid out to ALL players for the entire different year despite claiming to "help carry the torch of SC2 into the future", then it is reasonable to characterize it as a scam and the individuals running it as scammers. Note, something being a scam does not inherently require it to be a crime. Anyone who knows anything about timeshares would characterize those as scams.
A scam is when someone doesn't fulfil their obligations or lies about their obligations. It requires dishonesty on the part of the scammer. RSL have thus far done exactly what they said they would do in their Patreon pitch. How is that a scam? EDIT: There are plenty of legitimate criticisms you can make of this tournament. That they haven't done what they said they'd do isn't one of them.
You're conflating a scam with criminal fraud. They are frequently related, but they are not the same thing. A deception can be a scam without being fraud. e.g. Selling a PICTURE of a gaming console on eBay for the price of a gaming console is a scam but not necessarily fraud if the listing makes it clear what is being sold.
RSL presents itself as trying to "help carry the torch of SC2 into the future". RSL does note their proposed prize pools (in a currency that the audience is unlikely to be familiar), so they aren't engaging in fraud, but there isn't a single person in the world who would think that paying Gemini, Ziggy, and State over ten thousand dollars a year is a necessary part of the future of SC2. I would, however, expect that a vast majority of people would think that the players need to receive more than 10% of the money raised.
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On August 14 2025 23:29 RogueTheGOAT wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2025 17:40 MJG wrote:On August 14 2025 00:01 RogueTheGOAT wrote:
If your crowdfunding pays out 5 different individuals more than the sum paid out to ALL players for the entire different year despite claiming to "help carry the torch of SC2 into the future", then it is reasonable to characterize it as a scam and the individuals running it as scammers. Note, something being a scam does not inherently require it to be a crime. Anyone who knows anything about timeshares would characterize those as scams.
A scam is when someone doesn't fulfil their obligations or lies about their obligations. It requires dishonesty on the part of the scammer. RSL have thus far done exactly what they said they would do in their Patreon pitch. How is that a scam? EDIT: There are plenty of legitimate criticisms you can make of this tournament. That they haven't done what they said they'd do isn't one of them. You're conflating a scam with criminal fraud.
I'm not conflating anything.
Buy a dictionary.
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On August 14 2025 23:46 MJG wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2025 23:29 RogueTheGOAT wrote:On August 14 2025 17:40 MJG wrote:On August 14 2025 00:01 RogueTheGOAT wrote:
If your crowdfunding pays out 5 different individuals more than the sum paid out to ALL players for the entire different year despite claiming to "help carry the torch of SC2 into the future", then it is reasonable to characterize it as a scam and the individuals running it as scammers. Note, something being a scam does not inherently require it to be a crime. Anyone who knows anything about timeshares would characterize those as scams.
A scam is when someone doesn't fulfil their obligations or lies about their obligations. It requires dishonesty on the part of the scammer. RSL have thus far done exactly what they said they would do in their Patreon pitch. How is that a scam? EDIT: There are plenty of legitimate criticisms you can make of this tournament. That they haven't done what they said they'd do isn't one of them. You're conflating a scam with criminal fraud. I'm not conflating anything. Buy a dictionary.
Which dictionary provides your definition?
From Merriam-Webster:
Scam - a fraudulent or deceptive act or operation
RSL purports to "help carry the torch of SC2 into the future" while its intent is to funnel money to the organizers. That's deceptive and therefore a scam under that definition.
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On August 15 2025 00:04 RogueTheGOAT wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2025 23:46 MJG wrote:On August 14 2025 23:29 RogueTheGOAT wrote:On August 14 2025 17:40 MJG wrote:On August 14 2025 00:01 RogueTheGOAT wrote:
If your crowdfunding pays out 5 different individuals more than the sum paid out to ALL players for the entire different year despite claiming to "help carry the torch of SC2 into the future", then it is reasonable to characterize it as a scam and the individuals running it as scammers. Note, something being a scam does not inherently require it to be a crime. Anyone who knows anything about timeshares would characterize those as scams.
A scam is when someone doesn't fulfil their obligations or lies about their obligations. It requires dishonesty on the part of the scammer. RSL have thus far done exactly what they said they would do in their Patreon pitch. How is that a scam? EDIT: There are plenty of legitimate criticisms you can make of this tournament. That they haven't done what they said they'd do isn't one of them. You're conflating a scam with criminal fraud. I'm not conflating anything. Buy a dictionary. Which dictionary provides your definition? From Merriam-Webster: Scam - a fraudulent or deceptive act or operation RSL purports to "help carry the torch of SC2 into the future" while its intent is to funnel money to the organizers. That's deceptive and therefore a scam under that definition.
It's neither fraudulent nor deceptive if they do exactly what they said they were going to do.
+ Show Spoiler [What they said they'd do...] +On April 17 2025 23:13 Gemini_19 wrote:
Goal 1: Base level - we will be operating at this level for 2025 regardless of what level we hit
Event Scope: Two online seasons of your StarCraft 2 tournament.
Prize Pool: 5 million KRW per season (10 million KRW total).
Hosted from a new studio space in Seoul, casters would be offline and together for the broadcast
Features:
Professional broadcast production. 2 broadcasts a week during the season with professional commentators in person and together (State, Gemini, Tasteless, and more!)
Goal 2: Enhanced Online Seasons ($11,000/month)
Event Scope: Three online seasons of your Starcraft 2 tournament.
All features from Goal 1
Launch a regular Patreon-only podcast hosted by Gemini and Ziggy to discuss events, have guest pros and community figures on for interviews.
Increased marketing and promotion efforts.
Potentially bring in guest commentators or analysts for certain matches.
Community engagement initiatives (e.g., player spotlights, fan contests).
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On August 15 2025 00:12 MJG wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2025 00:04 RogueTheGOAT wrote:On August 14 2025 23:46 MJG wrote:On August 14 2025 23:29 RogueTheGOAT wrote:On August 14 2025 17:40 MJG wrote:On August 14 2025 00:01 RogueTheGOAT wrote:
If your crowdfunding pays out 5 different individuals more than the sum paid out to ALL players for the entire different year despite claiming to "help carry the torch of SC2 into the future", then it is reasonable to characterize it as a scam and the individuals running it as scammers. Note, something being a scam does not inherently require it to be a crime. Anyone who knows anything about timeshares would characterize those as scams.
A scam is when someone doesn't fulfil their obligations or lies about their obligations. It requires dishonesty on the part of the scammer. RSL have thus far done exactly what they said they would do in their Patreon pitch. How is that a scam? EDIT: There are plenty of legitimate criticisms you can make of this tournament. That they haven't done what they said they'd do isn't one of them. You're conflating a scam with criminal fraud. I'm not conflating anything. Buy a dictionary. Which dictionary provides your definition? From Merriam-Webster: Scam - a fraudulent or deceptive act or operation RSL purports to "help carry the torch of SC2 into the future" while its intent is to funnel money to the organizers. That's deceptive and therefore a scam under that definition. It's neither fraudulent nor deceptive if they do exactly what they said they were going to do. + Show Spoiler [What they said they'd do...] +On April 17 2025 23:13 Gemini_19 wrote:
Goal 1: Base level - we will be operating at this level for 2025 regardless of what level we hit
Event Scope: Two online seasons of your StarCraft 2 tournament.
Prize Pool: 5 million KRW per season (10 million KRW total).
Hosted from a new studio space in Seoul, casters would be offline and together for the broadcast
Features:
Professional broadcast production. 2 broadcasts a week during the season with professional commentators in person and together (State, Gemini, Tasteless, and more!)
Goal 2: Enhanced Online Seasons ($11,000/month)
Event Scope: Three online seasons of your Starcraft 2 tournament.
All features from Goal 1
Launch a regular Patreon-only podcast hosted by Gemini and Ziggy to discuss events, have guest pros and community figures on for interviews.
Increased marketing and promotion efforts.
Potentially bring in guest commentators or analysts for certain matches.
Community engagement initiatives (e.g., player spotlights, fan contests).
Can you point out to me where it says they will use the rest of the money to pay each of themselves more than the combined sum the RSL Patreon pays out to the players?
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On August 15 2025 00:44 RogueTheGOAT wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2025 00:12 MJG wrote:On August 15 2025 00:04 RogueTheGOAT wrote:On August 14 2025 23:46 MJG wrote:On August 14 2025 23:29 RogueTheGOAT wrote:On August 14 2025 17:40 MJG wrote:On August 14 2025 00:01 RogueTheGOAT wrote:
If your crowdfunding pays out 5 different individuals more than the sum paid out to ALL players for the entire different year despite claiming to "help carry the torch of SC2 into the future", then it is reasonable to characterize it as a scam and the individuals running it as scammers. Note, something being a scam does not inherently require it to be a crime. Anyone who knows anything about timeshares would characterize those as scams.
A scam is when someone doesn't fulfil their obligations or lies about their obligations. It requires dishonesty on the part of the scammer. RSL have thus far done exactly what they said they would do in their Patreon pitch. How is that a scam? EDIT: There are plenty of legitimate criticisms you can make of this tournament. That they haven't done what they said they'd do isn't one of them. You're conflating a scam with criminal fraud. I'm not conflating anything. Buy a dictionary. Which dictionary provides your definition? From Merriam-Webster: Scam - a fraudulent or deceptive act or operation RSL purports to "help carry the torch of SC2 into the future" while its intent is to funnel money to the organizers. That's deceptive and therefore a scam under that definition. It's neither fraudulent nor deceptive if they do exactly what they said they were going to do. + Show Spoiler [What they said they'd do...] +On April 17 2025 23:13 Gemini_19 wrote:
Goal 1: Base level - we will be operating at this level for 2025 regardless of what level we hit
Event Scope: Two online seasons of your StarCraft 2 tournament.
Prize Pool: 5 million KRW per season (10 million KRW total).
Hosted from a new studio space in Seoul, casters would be offline and together for the broadcast
Features:
Professional broadcast production. 2 broadcasts a week during the season with professional commentators in person and together (State, Gemini, Tasteless, and more!)
Goal 2: Enhanced Online Seasons ($11,000/month)
Event Scope: Three online seasons of your Starcraft 2 tournament.
All features from Goal 1
Launch a regular Patreon-only podcast hosted by Gemini and Ziggy to discuss events, have guest pros and community figures on for interviews.
Increased marketing and promotion efforts.
Potentially bring in guest commentators or analysts for certain matches.
Community engagement initiatives (e.g., player spotlights, fan contests). Can you point out to me where it says they will use the rest of the money to pay each of themselves more than the combined sum the RSL Patreon pays out to the players?
The amount of money going towards the prize pool is part of the list so...
I agree that the prize pool could do with being higher.
I disagree that they deceived anyone about it.
Thus I don't think it can be characterised as a scam.
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On August 15 2025 00:55 MJG wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2025 00:44 RogueTheGOAT wrote:On August 15 2025 00:12 MJG wrote:On August 15 2025 00:04 RogueTheGOAT wrote:On August 14 2025 23:46 MJG wrote:On August 14 2025 23:29 RogueTheGOAT wrote:On August 14 2025 17:40 MJG wrote:On August 14 2025 00:01 RogueTheGOAT wrote:
If your crowdfunding pays out 5 different individuals more than the sum paid out to ALL players for the entire different year despite claiming to "help carry the torch of SC2 into the future", then it is reasonable to characterize it as a scam and the individuals running it as scammers. Note, something being a scam does not inherently require it to be a crime. Anyone who knows anything about timeshares would characterize those as scams.
A scam is when someone doesn't fulfil their obligations or lies about their obligations. It requires dishonesty on the part of the scammer. RSL have thus far done exactly what they said they would do in their Patreon pitch. How is that a scam? EDIT: There are plenty of legitimate criticisms you can make of this tournament. That they haven't done what they said they'd do isn't one of them. You're conflating a scam with criminal fraud. I'm not conflating anything. Buy a dictionary. Which dictionary provides your definition? From Merriam-Webster: Scam - a fraudulent or deceptive act or operation RSL purports to "help carry the torch of SC2 into the future" while its intent is to funnel money to the organizers. That's deceptive and therefore a scam under that definition. It's neither fraudulent nor deceptive if they do exactly what they said they were going to do. + Show Spoiler [What they said they'd do...] +On April 17 2025 23:13 Gemini_19 wrote:
Goal 1: Base level - we will be operating at this level for 2025 regardless of what level we hit
Event Scope: Two online seasons of your StarCraft 2 tournament.
Prize Pool: 5 million KRW per season (10 million KRW total).
Hosted from a new studio space in Seoul, casters would be offline and together for the broadcast
Features:
Professional broadcast production. 2 broadcasts a week during the season with professional commentators in person and together (State, Gemini, Tasteless, and more!)
Goal 2: Enhanced Online Seasons ($11,000/month)
Event Scope: Three online seasons of your Starcraft 2 tournament.
All features from Goal 1
Launch a regular Patreon-only podcast hosted by Gemini and Ziggy to discuss events, have guest pros and community figures on for interviews.
Increased marketing and promotion efforts.
Potentially bring in guest commentators or analysts for certain matches.
Community engagement initiatives (e.g., player spotlights, fan contests). Can you point out to me where it says they will use the rest of the money to pay each of themselves more than the combined sum the RSL Patreon pays out to the players? The amount of money going towards the prize pool is part of the list so... I agree that the prize pool could do with being higher. I disagree that they deceived anyone about it. Thus I don't think it can be characterised as a scam.
They did not deceive, but they did manipulate people's best objectives to save sc2 in order to get more profit off their Patreon.
Example : Tasteless Mega Cup would gather 2k$ patreon at its best, "Supersaving sc2 + gsl reviving cup" got more attention and more interest, pure manipulation.
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Northern Ireland26535 Posts
On August 15 2025 00:04 RogueTheGOAT wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2025 23:46 MJG wrote:On August 14 2025 23:29 RogueTheGOAT wrote:On August 14 2025 17:40 MJG wrote:On August 14 2025 00:01 RogueTheGOAT wrote:
If your crowdfunding pays out 5 different individuals more than the sum paid out to ALL players for the entire different year despite claiming to "help carry the torch of SC2 into the future", then it is reasonable to characterize it as a scam and the individuals running it as scammers. Note, something being a scam does not inherently require it to be a crime. Anyone who knows anything about timeshares would characterize those as scams.
A scam is when someone doesn't fulfil their obligations or lies about their obligations. It requires dishonesty on the part of the scammer. RSL have thus far done exactly what they said they would do in their Patreon pitch. How is that a scam? EDIT: There are plenty of legitimate criticisms you can make of this tournament. That they haven't done what they said they'd do isn't one of them. You're conflating a scam with criminal fraud. I'm not conflating anything. Buy a dictionary. Which dictionary provides your definition? From Merriam-Webster: Scam - a fraudulent or deceptive act or operation RSL purports to "help carry the torch of SC2 into the future" while its intent is to funnel money to the organizers. That's deceptive and therefore a scam under that definition.
Where is the fraud or deception?
Your username is RogueTheGOAT, I don’t think he is the GOAT, ergo sir, I hereby call you a scam good sir!
Being serious, who’s behind the RSL ‘scam?’ who are the ringleaders? Is it just Tasteless that fraudulent bastard, manipulating others to his malicious tune?
Here’s a question I’ve asked both here and on Reddit when this topic comes up. That nobody seems to have a good answer for
If Tasteless, the Cabal, the Illuminati or whoever wanted to line their pockets, why not just do a cast from a bedroom and save money on all those overheads? They’d make more money.
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Northern Ireland26535 Posts
On August 15 2025 06:31 Optimus Prime2 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2025 00:55 MJG wrote:On August 15 2025 00:44 RogueTheGOAT wrote:On August 15 2025 00:12 MJG wrote:On August 15 2025 00:04 RogueTheGOAT wrote:On August 14 2025 23:46 MJG wrote:On August 14 2025 23:29 RogueTheGOAT wrote:On August 14 2025 17:40 MJG wrote:On August 14 2025 00:01 RogueTheGOAT wrote:
If your crowdfunding pays out 5 different individuals more than the sum paid out to ALL players for the entire different year despite claiming to "help carry the torch of SC2 into the future", then it is reasonable to characterize it as a scam and the individuals running it as scammers. Note, something being a scam does not inherently require it to be a crime. Anyone who knows anything about timeshares would characterize those as scams.
A scam is when someone doesn't fulfil their obligations or lies about their obligations. It requires dishonesty on the part of the scammer. RSL have thus far done exactly what they said they would do in their Patreon pitch. How is that a scam? EDIT: There are plenty of legitimate criticisms you can make of this tournament. That they haven't done what they said they'd do isn't one of them. You're conflating a scam with criminal fraud. I'm not conflating anything. Buy a dictionary. Which dictionary provides your definition? From Merriam-Webster: Scam - a fraudulent or deceptive act or operation RSL purports to "help carry the torch of SC2 into the future" while its intent is to funnel money to the organizers. That's deceptive and therefore a scam under that definition. It's neither fraudulent nor deceptive if they do exactly what they said they were going to do. + Show Spoiler [What they said they'd do...] +On April 17 2025 23:13 Gemini_19 wrote:
Goal 1: Base level - we will be operating at this level for 2025 regardless of what level we hit
Event Scope: Two online seasons of your StarCraft 2 tournament.
Prize Pool: 5 million KRW per season (10 million KRW total).
Hosted from a new studio space in Seoul, casters would be offline and together for the broadcast
Features:
Professional broadcast production. 2 broadcasts a week during the season with professional commentators in person and together (State, Gemini, Tasteless, and more!)
Goal 2: Enhanced Online Seasons ($11,000/month)
Event Scope: Three online seasons of your Starcraft 2 tournament.
All features from Goal 1
Launch a regular Patreon-only podcast hosted by Gemini and Ziggy to discuss events, have guest pros and community figures on for interviews.
Increased marketing and promotion efforts.
Potentially bring in guest commentators or analysts for certain matches.
Community engagement initiatives (e.g., player spotlights, fan contests). Can you point out to me where it says they will use the rest of the money to pay each of themselves more than the combined sum the RSL Patreon pays out to the players? The amount of money going towards the prize pool is part of the list so... I agree that the prize pool could do with being higher. I disagree that they deceived anyone about it. Thus I don't think it can be characterised as a scam. They did not deceive, but they did manipulate people's best objectives to save sc2 in order to get more profit off their Patreon. Example : Tasteless Mega Cup would gather 2k$ patreon at its best, "Supersaving sc2 + gsl reviving cup" got more attention and more interest, pure manipulation.
Tastosis make like, I believe way more than that from doing delayed English ASL casts. With the marketing hook of ‘do you want Tastosis to cast this?’
Your definition of manipulation is frankly utterly bonkers, as are basically all your posts.
I think all community casters should be forced to rename their future tournaments something like ‘[insert name] Wants to Cast Videogames for a Living Classic’
It’s long overdue, people have been getting away with such blatantly manipulative marketing for far too long!
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On August 15 2025 06:41 WombaT wrote:
Here’s a question I’ve asked both here and on Reddit when this topic comes up. That nobody seems to have a good answer for
If Tasteless, the Cabal, the Illuminati or whoever wanted to line their pockets, why not just do a cast from a bedroom and save money on all those overheads? They’d make more money.
I can give you a number of possible explanations, but you'd dismiss them since they would be backed purely by speculation. The best answer is that it gives people with a weird, para-social relationship to these casters ammunition they can use to justify why their player payout is so low. i.e. they have all these expenses, so they CAN'T pay more than 10% of the RSL pledges to the players.
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Northern Ireland26535 Posts
On August 15 2025 07:12 RogueTheGOAT wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2025 06:41 WombaT wrote:
Here’s a question I’ve asked both here and on Reddit when this topic comes up. That nobody seems to have a good answer for
If Tasteless, the Cabal, the Illuminati or whoever wanted to line their pockets, why not just do a cast from a bedroom and save money on all those overheads? They’d make more money. I can give you a number of possible explanations, but you'd dismiss them since they would be backed purely by speculation. The best answer is that it gives people with a weird, para-social relationship to these casters ammunition they can use to justify why their player payout is so low. i.e. they have all these expenses, so they CAN'T pay more than 10% of the RSL pledges to the players.
Try me.
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On August 15 2025 06:41 WombaT wrote:
Here’s a question I’ve asked both here and on Reddit when this topic comes up. That nobody seems to have a good answer for
If Tasteless, the Cabal, the Illuminati or whoever wanted to line their pockets, why not just do a cast from a bedroom and save money on all those overheads? They’d make more money.
The answer in my view is that the premise of the question is flawed.
It is not at all obvious, indeed very doubtful, that more money could be made by dispensing with the small studio. The studio is one of the few unique selling points of RSL, in fact the only one other than the presence of Tasteless. It is the only thing lending some credence to the claim of RSL continuing the legacy of GSL. Without the studio, RSL would be virtually indistinguishable from all the other online tournaments such as Wardi's and Pig's. It is very unlikely that people could be moved to spend the same enormous amount of $10.000+/month without there being at least the studio. So, no, I do not think a bedroom cast would generate more money.
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Northern Ireland26535 Posts
On August 15 2025 08:03 Antithesis wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2025 06:41 WombaT wrote:
Here’s a question I’ve asked both here and on Reddit when this topic comes up. That nobody seems to have a good answer for
If Tasteless, the Cabal, the Illuminati or whoever wanted to line their pockets, why not just do a cast from a bedroom and save money on all those overheads? They’d make more money. The answer in my view is that the premise of the question is flawed. It is not at all obvious, indeed very doubtful, that more money could be made by dispensing with the small studio. The studio is one of the few unique selling points of RSL, in fact the only one other than the presence of Tasteless. It is the only thing lending some credence to the claim of RSL continuing the legacy of GSL. Without the studio, RSL would be virtually indistinguishable from all the other online tournaments such as Wardi's and Pig's. It is very unlikely that people could be moved to spend the same enormous amount of $10.000+/month without there being at least the studio. So, no, I do not think a bedroom cast would generate more money.
People are already paying 10k a month (even with big off-seasons) for Tastosis’ bedroom ASL casts, broadcast after the event. Different game of course!
People like Tasteless more than Pig and Wardi. No shade on those two admirable fellows, people will absolutely pay for more Tasteless, and have. Demonstrably, twice now.
I personally don’t think most of the RSL Patreon is that fussed on the studio, and that kinda stuff. I may be wrong there, I think most just like Tasteless.
I think some (like myself, incidentally haven’t Patreoned) like the studio, it feels a bit more of an ‘event’, and I’d love the online finals to be a thing. But I dunno how big that cohort really is.
Unlike some on this thread, I’m not going to claim I know things I can’t prove. On intuition, completely arbitrary, but I think it’s conceivable the ‘Tasteless bedroom tournament’ drops from the RSL numbers, say it’s 7 or 8K now. Tasteless and crew still potentially better off even with that drop, with the overheads minimised.
Another factor is the supporting cast. The accusations seem to be directed primarily at Tasteless.
Why have Gemini, why have others? Just have State and yourself and you don’t have to pay other people.
I’m 100% down with criticism of the way they’re doing things, provided it’s fair, vaguely grounded in logical or values or whatever. This thread and the ones I’ve encountered are (mostly) absolutely not that at all, it’s a baseless, illogical witch hunt.
Made even more ridiculous by the fucking crickets that you get if you raise EWC’s sportswashing nonsense.
Oh, can’t do that. You’re hurting the scene by doing that!
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On August 15 2025 07:54 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2025 07:12 RogueTheGOAT wrote:On August 15 2025 06:41 WombaT wrote:
Here’s a question I’ve asked both here and on Reddit when this topic comes up. That nobody seems to have a good answer for
If Tasteless, the Cabal, the Illuminati or whoever wanted to line their pockets, why not just do a cast from a bedroom and save money on all those overheads? They’d make more money. I can give you a number of possible explanations, but you'd dismiss them since they would be backed purely by speculation. The best answer is that it gives people with a weird, para-social relationship to these casters ammunition they can use to justify why their player payout is so low. i.e. they have all these expenses, so they CAN'T pay more than 10% of the RSL pledges to the players. Try me.
I'm not familiar with Korean tax law, but if it were in the United States, the rent for the office/studio would decrease an incorporated RSL's income for tax purposes. If the office/studio were being used by one of the people involved in RSL or someone they knew during the 99.9999% of the time that RSL is not being cast, then the "rent" paid could actually save them money overall by getting a tax benefit that might not exist otherwise.
There are ways to take even further advantage of possible tax benefits, but I'm not going to write anything that could be construed as a libelous accusation of tax fraud.
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Northern Ireland26535 Posts
On August 15 2025 08:40 RogueTheGOAT wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2025 07:54 WombaT wrote:On August 15 2025 07:12 RogueTheGOAT wrote:On August 15 2025 06:41 WombaT wrote:
Here’s a question I’ve asked both here and on Reddit when this topic comes up. That nobody seems to have a good answer for
If Tasteless, the Cabal, the Illuminati or whoever wanted to line their pockets, why not just do a cast from a bedroom and save money on all those overheads? They’d make more money. I can give you a number of possible explanations, but you'd dismiss them since they would be backed purely by speculation. The best answer is that it gives people with a weird, para-social relationship to these casters ammunition they can use to justify why their player payout is so low. i.e. they have all these expenses, so they CAN'T pay more than 10% of the RSL pledges to the players. Try me. I'm not familiar with Korean tax law, but if it were in the United States, the rent for the office/studio would decrease an incorporated RSL's income for tax purposes. If the office/studio were being used by one of the people involved in RSL or someone they knew during the 99.9999% of the time that RSL is not being cast, then the "rent" paid could actually save them money overall by getting a tax benefit that might not exist otherwise. There are ways to take even further advantage of possible tax benefits, but I'm not going to write anything that could be construed as a libelous accusation of tax fraud.
But they’re not long-term renting, they’re doing it on an ad-hoc basis
Having played in bands, and terms would differ (some a flat fee, some initial fee, if the crowd drinks more than that, you make money), that wasn’t something that was tax deductible.
I know plenty in commercially successful wedding bands and they still make bank when work is steady, but they’re generally just hired by the bride and groom, so also can’t deduct venue expenses as they’re not paying them.
If I wanted for whatever reason to long-term hire out a location, then yeah maybe that comes into it, but I haven’t and it doesn’t seem to be what RSL are doing either
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On August 15 2025 06:48 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2025 06:31 Optimus Prime2 wrote:On August 15 2025 00:55 MJG wrote:On August 15 2025 00:44 RogueTheGOAT wrote:On August 15 2025 00:12 MJG wrote:On August 15 2025 00:04 RogueTheGOAT wrote:On August 14 2025 23:46 MJG wrote:On August 14 2025 23:29 RogueTheGOAT wrote:On August 14 2025 17:40 MJG wrote:On August 14 2025 00:01 RogueTheGOAT wrote:
If your crowdfunding pays out 5 different individuals more than the sum paid out to ALL players for the entire different year despite claiming to "help carry the torch of SC2 into the future", then it is reasonable to characterize it as a scam and the individuals running it as scammers. Note, something being a scam does not inherently require it to be a crime. Anyone who knows anything about timeshares would characterize those as scams.
A scam is when someone doesn't fulfil their obligations or lies about their obligations. It requires dishonesty on the part of the scammer. RSL have thus far done exactly what they said they would do in their Patreon pitch. How is that a scam? EDIT: There are plenty of legitimate criticisms you can make of this tournament. That they haven't done what they said they'd do isn't one of them. You're conflating a scam with criminal fraud. I'm not conflating anything. Buy a dictionary. Which dictionary provides your definition? From Merriam-Webster: Scam - a fraudulent or deceptive act or operation RSL purports to "help carry the torch of SC2 into the future" while its intent is to funnel money to the organizers. That's deceptive and therefore a scam under that definition. It's neither fraudulent nor deceptive if they do exactly what they said they were going to do. + Show Spoiler [What they said they'd do...] +On April 17 2025 23:13 Gemini_19 wrote:
Goal 1: Base level - we will be operating at this level for 2025 regardless of what level we hit
Event Scope: Two online seasons of your StarCraft 2 tournament.
Prize Pool: 5 million KRW per season (10 million KRW total).
Hosted from a new studio space in Seoul, casters would be offline and together for the broadcast
Features:
Professional broadcast production. 2 broadcasts a week during the season with professional commentators in person and together (State, Gemini, Tasteless, and more!)
Goal 2: Enhanced Online Seasons ($11,000/month)
Event Scope: Three online seasons of your Starcraft 2 tournament.
All features from Goal 1
Launch a regular Patreon-only podcast hosted by Gemini and Ziggy to discuss events, have guest pros and community figures on for interviews.
Increased marketing and promotion efforts.
Potentially bring in guest commentators or analysts for certain matches.
Community engagement initiatives (e.g., player spotlights, fan contests). Can you point out to me where it says they will use the rest of the money to pay each of themselves more than the combined sum the RSL Patreon pays out to the players? The amount of money going towards the prize pool is part of the list so... I agree that the prize pool could do with being higher. I disagree that they deceived anyone about it. Thus I don't think it can be characterised as a scam. They did not deceive, but they did manipulate people's best objectives to save sc2 in order to get more profit off their Patreon. Example : Tasteless Mega Cup would gather 2k$ patreon at its best, "Supersaving sc2 + gsl reviving cup" got more attention and more interest, pure manipulation. Tastosis make like, I believe way more than that from doing delayed English ASL casts. With the marketing hook of ‘do you want Tastosis to cast this?’ Your definition of manipulation is frankly utterly bonkers, as are basically all your posts. I think all community casters should be forced to rename their future tournaments something like ‘[insert name] Wants to Cast Videogames for a Living Classic’ It’s long overdue, people have been getting away with such blatantly manipulative marketing for far too long!
Surprisingly, thats how every caster does rn, "Pig fest" , "Wardi summer" . They dont pretend to be huge cup with scene changing ideas.
And funny thing Tastless cup is worse than any other listed online tournament , it has huge AD delays every map, its only played with 1-2 series per day, nobody else does this in online cups. Even now Tasteless takes 3 (!!!) week break between qualifiers and main event, in order to prolong overall processing structure. No other reason behind that.
If you wanna bring ASL season as reason , so in this case you either do qualifiers in september or you do main tournament in august completely, but scheduling qualifiers to 8 august and main event on 4 september is non-sense.
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I love RSL, I think it's a ton of fun. I'm contributing to the patreon and I'm happy about it. Stateless and company are great, and I hope that they continue to put out this product.
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EPT
