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Hello, i would like to bring a topic of insane money on https://www.patreon.com/ReviveSC2 , (12500$/month = insane 150.000$ / year + constant 6 min ads every 1/2 games) which Tastless currently rising.
There is several donation-based events, such as endless Wardi events, PiG Fest, Homestory cups , which are somewhat compared with money they get/money they spend on tournaments, for example PiG and Wardi spending almost everthing they get with donations, TaKe also puts most of donation's into event.
But not the case with Tastless , while he currently rises 150.000$ , he only plan to invest 14.000$ of them into prizepool , with 2 expected seasons. And with ADs spam of course total money is way higher, than this.
To me all this event is huge manipulaton/abuse on sc2 fans, which starts with idea of bringing SC2 back to life, Revive title etc , but only stuff which is planned to be revived currently is Tastless's wallet.
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It's only just got started, let them settle in. They have big plans.
And spreading rumours like this ("he probably-") is dangreous, you've probably been on reddit for too long.
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i said its rumours on topic , but i personally certain this is not, i just wont put it that way without serral's comment.
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On July 11 2025 19:53 bulldozer06701 wrote:
It's only just got started, let them settle in. They have big plans.
And spreading rumours like this ("he probably-") is dangreous, you've probably been on reddit for too long.
settle in to what? you expect season every month or what? 3 season's is end goal with 210.000 rised , which doesnt change picture too much.
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Let's not spread rumors if there isn't any notable source
It's just starting, if they want to host something properly, then everyone needs to be paid a real salary for their part-time or full-time work. There is a lot that goes into a league, especially one that they are trying to produce to a professional standard.
"i said its rumours on topic , but i personally certain this is not, i just wont put it that way without serral's comment."
Wait, you're forcing Serral to have to clear this up? Instead of removing it unless if it's confirmed? That's extremely backwards.
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On July 11 2025 19:59 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
Let's not spread rumors if there isn't any notable source
Wait, you're forcing Serral to have to clear this up? Instead of removing it unless if it's confirmed? That's extremely backwards.
How you expect this to be confirmed? For Serral to just go into media war with Tasteless for not much reason? This is why its said as rumours once again.
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On July 11 2025 19:59 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
It's just starting, if they want to host something properly, then everyone needs to be paid a real salary for their part-time or full-time work. There is a lot that goes into a league, especially one that they are trying to produce to a professional standard.
"
Single bo7 or 2 bo5's without offline presence for players per day is professional standard?
6 min ADs every 1/2 games , while you rise 12500$ monthly already is another professional standard? Got ya
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On July 11 2025 19:40 Optimus Prime2 wrote:
p.s. There are rumours (!) Serral probably declined his invitation because of this .
Serral is simply continuing his long-storied tradition of ducking Korean tournaments with preparation time.
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On July 11 2025 20:03 Optimus Prime2 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2025 19:59 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
Let's not spread rumors if there isn't any notable source
Wait, you're forcing Serral to have to clear this up? Instead of removing it unless if it's confirmed? That's extremely backwards. How you expect this to be confirmed? For Serral to just go into media war with Tasteless for not much reason? This is why its said as rumours once again.
How about don't spread rumors that can be harmful to people?
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On July 11 2025 20:11 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2025 20:03 Optimus Prime2 wrote:On July 11 2025 19:59 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
Let's not spread rumors if there isn't any notable source
Wait, you're forcing Serral to have to clear this up? Instead of removing it unless if it's confirmed? That's extremely backwards. How you expect this to be confirmed? For Serral to just go into media war with Tasteless for not much reason? This is why its said as rumours once again. How about don't spread rumors that can be harmful to people?
Harmful to whom? By what? Explain?
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another high quality thread, tl delivers once again
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Show proof that Tasteless is actually pocketing the money for the prizepool as well as proof regarding Serral's refusal to join RSL, OP.
Otherwise you are just spewing bullshit.
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On July 11 2025 22:03 Toshinou-Kyouko wrote:
Show proof that Tasteless is actually pocketing the money for the prizepool as well as proof regarding Serral's refusal to join RSL, OP.
Otherwise you are just spewing bullshit.
14.000$ been spent on prizemoney of total donations isnt proof? whats type of proof you expect then lol ? photo set of tasteless buying lamborghini at car showroom in seoul ?
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Patreon started mid april , since then was only 1 regular "wardi summer online tournament" with slightly enhanced prizepool been made, only difference it had Reynor in , same line up , same system. What for Tasteless want his donations? For that insanely cute face of him Gemini and State? Completely worth their, how much? 40000$ ? Whats already been rised?
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Northern Ireland25273 Posts
It’s not really manipulative to lay out what you plan to do, how you intend to distribute the money, and leave folks to decide if they want to contribute or not.
I said it at the time of the original announcement, but I think it bears repeating and often isn’t in such conversations.
I don’t think the RSL was conceived with the intention to run alongside regular tournaments, but as a replacement. GSL in particular. I think enough of the groundwork and planning was already done, so they decided to proceed anyway.
Choices and ambitions, especially given production and a stretch goal to do some offline make a lot of sense if you consider it through that lens.
I think it’s a good endeavour that I wanna support anyway, but that’s my read.
Perhaps not something anyone will confirm or deny in terms of friction it may cause if true, but it 100% screams to me ‘man we’re done waiting for announcements, fuck it we need to do something ourselves’, only for EWC to then get announced along with some GSL seasons.
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On July 11 2025 22:19 WombaT wrote:
I don’t think the RSL was conceived with the intention to run alongside regular tournaments, but as a replacement. GSL in particular. I think enough of the groundwork and planning was already done, so they decided to proceed anyway.
GSL replacement with 2000$ first place? Really ? PiG fest and especially lan-based Homestory cups are more relevant to be GSL replacement then, higher prizepool , better line up (on pig fest) , Homestory is made as LAN .
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Northern Ireland25273 Posts
On July 11 2025 19:59 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
Let's not spread rumors if there isn't any notable source
It's just starting, if they want to host something properly, then everyone needs to be paid a real salary for their part-time or full-time work. There is a lot that goes into a league, especially one that they are trying to produce to a professional standard.
"i said its rumours on topic , but i personally certain this is not, i just wont put it that way without serral's comment."
Wait, you're forcing Serral to have to clear this up? Instead of removing it unless if it's confirmed? That's extremely backwards.
The Serral rumour is ludicrous.
Unlike most here, I’ve done live LANs, with audiences and on-site casters (one of which is me), observers (also me), DJ during downtime (also me), bit of crowd interaction. Oh and a big chunk of tech setup and testing often with our own gear either fully or partly. My multitasking ain’t quite up to it, but ‘good enough’, but in the past has necessitated big 10-12 hour stints trying to keep things running and entertaining until the end of day’s play and beer time kicks in. My co-caster keeps up with the bracket, chooses what matches we’re gonna cast and has to frequently swap to the players’ room to keep things smooth there. So I’ve got a little insight although not into a full pro level production.
We don’t have to worry about venue hiring, as we do it out of Ireland’s largest (and by far best) anime and gaming/general nerd convention. Would highly recommend on goes if they’re in the neighbourhood when Q-Con is going! But it’s only as good as it is because it’s entirely staffed by volunteers
Anyway, there’s a good reason that, to my knowledge only our SC group consistently, does offline events full stop, at least once annually much less with casters and a bit of pageantry. I think it adds enough value and fun to be worth doing, but it’s a ton of work, and work you have to do for free.
The convention we’ve long been attached to puts on a good prize pool for the level of competition we’re at, it’s better than most pro weeklies.
That would just evaporate if we paid minimum wage to a few of us. The absolute bare minimum of me doing multiple jobs, co-caster doing a few too, and one person doing the boring job of keeping the door and checking tickets, would still give us a negative prize pool.
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Tasteless and Artosis never cared about SC2 but they cared enough about the money. But I guess SC2 players are desperate enough to even participate in this obvious grift.
User was banned for this post.
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Northern Ireland25273 Posts
On July 11 2025 22:26 Optimus Prime2 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2025 22:19 WombaT wrote:
I don’t think the RSL was conceived with the intention to run alongside regular tournaments, but as a replacement. GSL in particular. I think enough of the groundwork and planning was already done, so they decided to proceed anyway.
GSL replacement with 2000$ first place? Really ? PiG fest and especially lan-based Homestory cups are more relevant to be GSL replacement then, higher prizepool , better line up (on pig fest) , Homestory is made as LAN .
Where is Homestory Cup?
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150k a year is a lot, but since RSL was announced in April, only a fraction of that income will have actually been disbursed. In terms of non-prize pool expenses, there are:
(1) Studio costs (rent, all kinds of equipment, etc)
(2) Some kind of compensation to the people involved in planning, setting up invitations, casting, etc - this is probably hundreds upon hundreds of hours already
(3) Paying for graphics, etc
I also doubt the companies Tasteless is advertising has a huge advertising budget, I'd be surprised if the sponsorship is more than a few thousand. I'd actually be shocked if the organizers haven't had to pay out of pocket some to get RSL set up. I imagine they'll be made whole if the 150k a year gets paid out, but even that's not guaranteed - if they put out a bad product that could dry up.
Serral not playing because of the prize pool wouldn't surprise me - he rarely plays smaller tournaments, and as a top contender to win EWC probably sees hiding prep and squeezing in more practice time as far more sensible than playing RSL (no doubt that's the decision Maru made too, I imagine he got an invite.) That's not the same as a moral stand over spending decisions.
That being said, I do have some criticisms of how RSL is being run. The scene has plenty of medium size online tournaments - I feel RSL would add more to the scene if it just committed to being offline, even if that means only a single tournament a year. Not going to get mad at anyone making an honest effort to give us more tournaments though.
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On July 11 2025 23:30 dysenterymd wrote:
150k a year is a lot, but since RSL was announced in April, only a fraction of that income will have actually been disbursed. In terms of non-prize pool expenses, there are:
(1) Studio costs (rent, all kinds of equipment, etc)
(2) Some kind of compensation to the people involved in planning, setting up invitations, casting, etc - this is probably hundreds upon hundreds of hours already
(3) Paying for graphics, etc
I also doubt the companies Tasteless is advertising has a huge advertising budget, I'd be surprised if the sponsorship is more than a few thousand. I'd actually be shocked if the organizers haven't had to pay out of pocket some to get RSL set up. I imagine they'll be made whole if the 150k a year gets paid out, but even that's not guaranteed - if they put out a bad product that could dry up.
Serral not playing because of the prize pool wouldn't surprise me - he rarely plays smaller tournaments, and as a top contender to win EWC probably sees hiding prep and squeezing in more practice time as far more sensible than playing RSL (no doubt that's the decision Maru made too, I imagine he got an invite.) That's not the same as a moral stand over spending decisions.
That being said, I do have some criticisms of how RSL is being run. The scene has plenty of medium size online tournaments - I feel RSL would add more to the scene if it just committed to being offline, even if that means only a single tournament a year. Not going to get mad at anyone making an honest effort to give us more tournaments though.
"Studio" which is some random apartments, which dont make much sense is only reason to have excuse for money gathering more than prizepool. Reality is this webcam additions are free on any other stream, such as Wardi , Pig etc , nobody pays anything for being represented at webcamera during stream.
RSL doesnt add anything , which Wardi online tournaments already doing, this is another non-regular online cup, with huge money syphon machine being added. Prizepool is minimal, words are big, role is non existent.
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On July 11 2025 22:52 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2025 19:59 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
Let's not spread rumors if there isn't any notable source
It's just starting, if they want to host something properly, then everyone needs to be paid a real salary for their part-time or full-time work. There is a lot that goes into a league, especially one that they are trying to produce to a professional standard.
"i said its rumours on topic , but i personally certain this is not, i just wont put it that way without serral's comment."
Wait, you're forcing Serral to have to clear this up? Instead of removing it unless if it's confirmed? That's extremely backwards. The Serral rumour is ludicrous. Unlike most here, I’ve done live LANs, with audiences and on-site casters (one of which is me), observers (also me), DJ during downtime (also me), bit of crowd interaction. Oh and a big chunk of tech setup and testing often with our own gear either fully or partly. My multitasking ain’t quite up to it, but ‘good enough’, but in the past has necessitated big 10-12 hour stints trying to keep things running and entertaining until the end of day’s play and beer time kicks in. My co-caster keeps up with the bracket, chooses what matches we’re gonna cast and has to frequently swap to the players’ room to keep things smooth there. So I’ve got a little insight although not into a full pro level production. We don’t have to worry about venue hiring, as we do it out of Ireland’s largest (and by far best) anime and gaming/general nerd convention. Would highly recommend on goes if they’re in the neighbourhood when Q-Con is going! But it’s only as good as it is because it’s entirely staffed by volunteers Anyway, there’s a good reason that, to my knowledge only our SC group consistently, does offline events full stop, at least once annually much less with casters and a bit of pageantry. I think it adds enough value and fun to be worth doing, but it’s a ton of work, and work you have to do for free. The convention we’ve long been attached to puts on a good prize pool for the level of competition we’re at, it’s better than most pro weeklies. That would just evaporate if we paid minimum wage to a few of us. The absolute bare minimum of me doing multiple jobs, co-caster doing a few too, and one person doing the boring job of keeping the door and checking tickets, would still give us a negative prize pool.
wanna bet money on Serral's statement been ludicrous? i can take your bet no problem
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I don't post much, but it seems weird to be upset over something like this. If people choose to donate, then that is their prerogative. People are giving money and getting high-quality SC2. How the money is distributed is left in the hands of the people who run it. If I feel like I'm not getting my money's worth, I won't donate. I do donate because I like watching high-level SC2. If I feel that what I am donating to doesn't produce the level of entertainment I want, I will stop. What is the problem?
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Northern Ireland25273 Posts
On July 11 2025 23:45 Optimus Prime2 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2025 22:52 WombaT wrote:On July 11 2025 19:59 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
Let's not spread rumors if there isn't any notable source
It's just starting, if they want to host something properly, then everyone needs to be paid a real salary for their part-time or full-time work. There is a lot that goes into a league, especially one that they are trying to produce to a professional standard.
"i said its rumours on topic , but i personally certain this is not, i just wont put it that way without serral's comment."
Wait, you're forcing Serral to have to clear this up? Instead of removing it unless if it's confirmed? That's extremely backwards. The Serral rumour is ludicrous. Unlike most here, I’ve done live LANs, with audiences and on-site casters (one of which is me), observers (also me), DJ during downtime (also me), bit of crowd interaction. Oh and a big chunk of tech setup and testing often with our own gear either fully or partly. My multitasking ain’t quite up to it, but ‘good enough’, but in the past has necessitated big 10-12 hour stints trying to keep things running and entertaining until the end of day’s play and beer time kicks in. My co-caster keeps up with the bracket, chooses what matches we’re gonna cast and has to frequently swap to the players’ room to keep things smooth there. So I’ve got a little insight although not into a full pro level production. We don’t have to worry about venue hiring, as we do it out of Ireland’s largest (and by far best) anime and gaming/general nerd convention. Would highly recommend on goes if they’re in the neighbourhood when Q-Con is going! But it’s only as good as it is because it’s entirely staffed by volunteers Anyway, there’s a good reason that, to my knowledge only our SC group consistently, does offline events full stop, at least once annually much less with casters and a bit of pageantry. I think it adds enough value and fun to be worth doing, but it’s a ton of work, and work you have to do for free. The convention we’ve long been attached to puts on a good prize pool for the level of competition we’re at, it’s better than most pro weeklies. That would just evaporate if we paid minimum wage to a few of us. The absolute bare minimum of me doing multiple jobs, co-caster doing a few too, and one person doing the boring job of keeping the door and checking tickets, would still give us a negative prize pool. wanna bet money on Serral's statement been ludicrous? i can take your bet no problem
What statement? He hasn’t made one.
If the claim is that he declined because he didn’t see the prize pool as sufficient to show some of his hands with EWC, I’d have no disagreement with that being plausible.
Your OP implies that he declined because he had issues with how the tournament is organised and how they’re spending their Patreon money.
If I’m reading you wrong there then that’s my bad
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On July 11 2025 23:55 HooTie wrote:
I don't post much, but it seems weird to be upset over something like this. If people choose to donate, then that is their prerogative. People are giving money and getting high-quality SC2. How the money is distributed is left in the hands of the people who run it. If I feel like I'm not getting my money's worth, I won't donate. I do donate because I like watching high-level SC2. If I feel that what I am donating to doesn't produce the level of entertainment I want, I will stop. What is the problem?
Problem is shady business, which is running under big words of sc2 saving, reviving etc, in reality just trying to get rich with donations of people, who really love this game. After time community will realise , what is happening, both players and supporters (viewers) , but it will take just more time. Which could be saved if you would have just good look/review on sitation right now, what is happening.
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On July 12 2025 00:06 WombaT wrote:
What statement? He hasn’t made one.
If the claim is that he declined because he didn’t see the prize pool as sufficient to show some of his hands with EWC, I’d have no disagreement with that being plausible.
Your OP implies that he declined because he had issues with how the tournament is organised and how they’re spending their Patreon money.
If I’m reading you wrong there then that’s my bad
He didn't made any statement, i was saying, thats was his reason to decline invitation, and i can proove my words , if you wanna bet on me being ludicrous here.
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While it is fair to question funding distribution and ROI, so to speak, for those donating, the manner in which you presented your case here is extremely incendiary and based on not much at all. Tasteless, to me at least, is an absolute professional and a legend of the scene and I will not tolerate unsubstantiated slander. Like WTH even is that Serral allegation...
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Wait so they're only making 150k a year and you think thats too much for 3 people + the contractors they need to pay + prizepool? So confused.
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United States33388 Posts
relevant topic, bad OP
debated closing it, but I'll keep it open for a bit longer since I don't wanna make a new OP 
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On July 12 2025 00:09 Optimus Prime2 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2025 23:55 HooTie wrote:
I don't post much, but it seems weird to be upset over something like this. If people choose to donate, then that is their prerogative. People are giving money and getting high-quality SC2. How the money is distributed is left in the hands of the people who run it. If I feel like I'm not getting my money's worth, I won't donate. I do donate because I like watching high-level SC2. If I feel that what I am donating to doesn't produce the level of entertainment I want, I will stop. What is the problem? Problem is shady business, which is running under big words of sc2 saving, reviving etc, in reality just trying to get rich with donations of people, who really love this game. After time community will realise , what is happening, both players and supporters (viewers) , but it will take just more time. Which could be saved if you would have just good look/review on sitation right now, what is happening.
To me, it is doing exactly what it's advertised to do. People need to get paid to do this. It sounds like you are under the impression that this is just a fly-by-night tournament run by a clan like I used to do for the Team Gosu Bounty Brawl. It is A LOT of work, and it was funded by mostly me, but my clan put in a large chunk of their own hard earned money. We made a total of $-2,000.00 (yeah we lost every dime we put in PLUS our time). We did it because we love the game and we wanted to do something special, but it is 100% unsustainable. This is what sustainability looks like. People who are part of the project are being paid to do the work that they do. If you think Tasteless is disingenuous, fine, that's your opinion, but I think coming to one of the few spaces that exist for our now niche game, and just making wild negative accusations about something that is actually GOOD for the game, is doing no one any favors.
Also, who thinks someone is "getting rich" off of any amount of money that has been spoken about so far? Making a living? MAYBE, but to say anyone is "getting rich" off of this is just insane, and makes it seem like you are just being a tad sour, and out of touch with reality. The numbers being tossed around seem big to some people sure, but realistically in today's world, it's peanuts.
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Hello 
Even though I personally have no experience with what it takes or costs to produce such an event, I am very interested in knowing exactly (or at least roughly) what the money donated by the community for the RSL is being used for.
This actually applies regardless of the event. Especially when something is funded by donations within a relatively small community like SC2, I personally believe it's very important—and also responsible—to provide transparency in this context.
One reason for that is, for example, this very thread
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Northern Ireland25273 Posts
On July 12 2025 02:21 HooTie wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2025 00:09 Optimus Prime2 wrote:On July 11 2025 23:55 HooTie wrote:
I don't post much, but it seems weird to be upset over something like this. If people choose to donate, then that is their prerogative. People are giving money and getting high-quality SC2. How the money is distributed is left in the hands of the people who run it. If I feel like I'm not getting my money's worth, I won't donate. I do donate because I like watching high-level SC2. If I feel that what I am donating to doesn't produce the level of entertainment I want, I will stop. What is the problem? Problem is shady business, which is running under big words of sc2 saving, reviving etc, in reality just trying to get rich with donations of people, who really love this game. After time community will realise , what is happening, both players and supporters (viewers) , but it will take just more time. Which could be saved if you would have just good look/review on sitation right now, what is happening. To me, it is doing exactly what it's advertised to do. People need to get paid to do this. It sounds like you are under the impression that this is just a fly-by-night tournament run by a clan like I used to do for the Team Gosu Bounty Brawl. It is A LOT of work, and it was funded by mostly me, but my clan put in a large chunk of their own hard earned money. We made a total of $-2,000.00 (yeah we lost every dime we put in PLUS our time). We did it because we love the game and we wanted to do something special, but it is 100% unsustainable. This is what sustainability looks like. People who are part of the project are being paid to do the work that they do. If you think Tasteless is disingenuous, fine, that's your opinion, but I think coming to one of the few spaces that exist for our now niche game, and just making wild negative accusations about something that is actually GOOD for the game, is doing no one any favors. Also, who thinks someone is "getting rich" off of any amount of money that has been spoken about so far? Making a living? MAYBE, but to say anyone is "getting rich" off of this is just insane, and makes it seem like you are just being a tad sour, and out of touch with reality. The numbers being tossed around seem big to some people sure, but realistically in today's world, it's peanuts.
Beautifully put.
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https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/1lv6b4d/rsl_revival_hows_it_going_so_far/n24aztn/
this guy makes far better point than OP and still on topic
I've been meaning to say this, but I haven't had an account for a while. I made a new one because this has been burning in my mind.
I feel like Tasteless and Co. at RSL are going the UFC route. Insane money for the production company and Dana White, but very slim payouts for the players (for the UFC, about 20% of the actual revenue only goes to fighters). All the other major sports leagues pay 50% of the revenue to players.
I get that RSL is a new venture and the effort is going to be a money sink for a while. However, the scale of the rewards just doesn't make any sense. The REAL talent is the players. The REAL reason why we are watching SC2 still in 2025 is because the players are able to play the game in a way that is worth watching. Once everyone retires, we will stop watching. There won't be any RSL. We won't want to watch gold league players duking it out on the ladder. It's just not worth our time.
The goal should be 50/50 split between players and production. Currently, the players have < 8% of the actual pot that the crowd is funding. $12,000/mo and 3 tournaments for a total prize pool of $10,918.22. That's actually WORSE than the UFC. Again, I understand this is a new venture so there's going to be a lot of initial costs for production. But even at $20,000/month, you're looking at $240,000/year revenue and $29,116 total payout for the players. I'm not including the $1,000 for a map making contest as a payout for players because it isn't. At the $20,000/mo goal, the payout for players is 12.13% of the crowdfunded amount. Dogshit.
What's going on is exploitative and predatory. RSL is taking advantage of players who need to get paid, and an eager and hungry audience willing to shell out money for games.
And PLEASE stop using KRW to try to inflate your dogshit prize pool. Yes, we get that you all think we're stupid. How much of your money is being paid from Patreon in KRW? So why advertise the prize pool in KRW to the people you're taking money from?
Alright, I gotta stop because I'm getting more and more disrespectful. Seriously, though, for anyone paying into RSL, just remember that the players are getting <10% of what you're putting into. $10/mo? not even $1/mo for the players. I highly advise RSL to be more transparent about their finances or for everyone to stop funding this money scheme for the RSL company.
Great games from the players. Everyone is bringing it, as expected. Just give them a percentage that they are worth.
Honestly, I think its reasonable that fraction of total pool is prizepool to prioritize production/legitimacy of the tournament so it's not another online cup #134234, but it is bit too much as of now compared to amount of community funding it's been shown. And yea, organizing tourney of the scale takes a lot of work and people to pay but final prize pool number seems tad low.
Hopefully its growing pains
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People who still want to support SC2 with their money is their business, and I would never expect anyone to cast or organize something for free. But this patreon shit does seem manipulative to me, and has gotten totally out of control. The rhetoric of “saving a game” does a good job of tenderizing people for their cash.
Tasteless does the same thing in StarCraft 1. His slogan is “keep the memory of Brood War alive”. More like keep the career of Tasteless alive. Alive and soaring.
The ASL patreon makes 11K per month in the off-season. I switched to Korean commentary years ago and haven't looked back.
I think Tasteless should prove he cares enough about something to do it for a lot less money. Or do something else. He just comes across as a guy in a suit with metal eyes, instead of the funny dufus he was like 15 years ago. The last thing you want is that slimy feeling with someone you once thought was cool. Who knows though, maybe Tasteless was always a secret asshole. Probably.
There's my wild accusation of the day. Call it a hunch.
To anyone who does support these patreons: see if Tasteless, Artosis, State—whoever else—will still cast with a smaller budget first. If they refuse to cast a game on a much smaller budget, or refuse to give a larger chunk of the money to the prize pool they're casting, it should tell you something about their character and whether you should maybe pull back on the funding. You've probably earned your money and should spend it more intelligently.
I hope I get banned.
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To anyone who does support these patreons: see if Tasteless, Artosis, State—whoever else—will still cast with a smaller budget first. If they refuse to cast a game on a much smaller budget, or refuse to give a larger chunk of the money to the prize pool they're casting, it should tell you something about their character and whether you should maybe pull back on the funding. You've probably earned your money and should spend it more intelligently.
I have spend a lot of my youth casting WC3 for free. Now I see that the Back2Warcraft guys live from that. And I'm more than happy for them.
What is this particularly stupid argument? "You have to prove that you love the game by working for free first" or what? I know Artosis has children, I think Tasteless has aswell, not sure though. Expecting them to cast and invest hours and hours for free is just ludicrous.
Wardi, Pig...no one should doubt their love and investment into SC2. But it is hilarious to think they would just go on like they do now if they couldn't live from it. What is this attitude? "We love the game, but how dare you want to make a living out of it"?
If you have proof that RSL embezzles funds, show them. Better yet, go directly to Patreon and report them there. If you have none except "hurrdurr, I would totally do it for free and much better but dinner was ready", then stfu...
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On July 12 2025 04:56 jinjin5000 wrote:https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/1lv6b4d/rsl_revival_hows_it_going_so_far/n24aztn/this guy makes far better point than OP and still on topic Show nested quote +I've been meaning to say this, but I haven't had an account for a while. I made a new one because this has been burning in my mind.
I feel like Tasteless and Co. at RSL are going the UFC route. Insane money for the production company and Dana White, but very slim payouts for the players (for the UFC, about 20% of the actual revenue only goes to fighters). All the other major sports leagues pay 50% of the revenue to players.
I get that RSL is a new venture and the effort is going to be a money sink for a while. However, the scale of the rewards just doesn't make any sense. The REAL talent is the players. The REAL reason why we are watching SC2 still in 2025 is because the players are able to play the game in a way that is worth watching. Once everyone retires, we will stop watching. There won't be any RSL. We won't want to watch gold league players duking it out on the ladder. It's just not worth our time.
The goal should be 50/50 split between players and production. Currently, the players have < 8% of the actual pot that the crowd is funding. $12,000/mo and 3 tournaments for a total prize pool of $10,918.22. That's actually WORSE than the UFC. Again, I understand this is a new venture so there's going to be a lot of initial costs for production. But even at $20,000/month, you're looking at $240,000/year revenue and $29,116 total payout for the players. I'm not including the $1,000 for a map making contest as a payout for players because it isn't. At the $20,000/mo goal, the payout for players is 12.13% of the crowdfunded amount. Dogshit.
What's going on is exploitative and predatory. RSL is taking advantage of players who need to get paid, and an eager and hungry audience willing to shell out money for games.
And PLEASE stop using KRW to try to inflate your dogshit prize pool. Yes, we get that you all think we're stupid. How much of your money is being paid from Patreon in KRW? So why advertise the prize pool in KRW to the people you're taking money from?
Alright, I gotta stop because I'm getting more and more disrespectful. Seriously, though, for anyone paying into RSL, just remember that the players are getting <10% of what you're putting into. $10/mo? not even $1/mo for the players. I highly advise RSL to be more transparent about their finances or for everyone to stop funding this money scheme for the RSL company.
Great games from the players. Everyone is bringing it, as expected. Just give them a percentage that they are worth.
Honestly, I think its reasonable that fraction of total pool is prizepool to prioritize production/legitimacy of the tournament so it's not another online cup #134234, but it is bit too much as of now compared to amount of community funding it's been shown. Hopefully its growing pains
Thank you for posting this. I agree with the main points and it saves me the time to write it out.
To be honest, I'm quite baffled how uncritical and defensive many are of the funding system of RSL, especially given that we have multiple other online tournaments where most or even all of the money donated directly goes to the players – PigstyFestival, Wardi's tournament series, the Duckling series, etc.
Yes, RSL has a few extra features, but I do not see how these justify 85-90% of the money going to the producers. More casters, yes, but this also means each caster has less work to do. The prize pool is poor, as already pointed out; it's literally less than that of some of the above-mentioned tournaments which receive much less funding. The only special feature I see is the small studio, which obviously caused upfront costs, but still the ratio is off. And as OP mentioned there are constant adds und sales pitches.
Besides, I find it slightly weird to say that RSL is trying to revive or save SC2 when Wardi and Pig and Ducklings and Take and others have been doing essentially the same or similar things for years on end with much less funding. Pig's festival even had more extra entertainment with the player fun interviews and so on.
To be clear, I greatly appreciate the idea behind RSL and the efforts involved and hope it will be a success but I too feel much more money should go to the players.
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Northern Ireland25273 Posts
On July 12 2025 05:03 RogerChillingworth wrote:
People who still want to support SC2 with their money is their business, and I would never expect anyone to cast or organize something for free. But this patreon shit does seem manipulative to me, and has gotten totally out of control. The rhetoric of “saving a game” does a good job of tenderizing people for their cash.
Tasteless does the same thing in StarCraft 1. His slogan is “keep the memory of Brood War alive”. More like keep the career of Tasteless alive. Alive and soaring.
The ASL patreon makes 11K per month in the off-season. I switched to Korean commentary years ago and haven't looked back.
I think Tasteless should prove he cares enough about something to do it for a lot less money. Or do something else. He just comes across as a guy in a suit with metal eyes, instead of the funny dufus he was like 15 years ago. The last thing you want is that slimy feeling with someone you once thought was cool. Who knows though, maybe Tasteless was always a secret asshole. Probably.
There's my wild accusation of the day. Call it a hunch.
To anyone who does support these patreons: see if Tasteless, Artosis, State—whoever else—will still cast with a smaller budget first. If they refuse to cast a game on a much smaller budget, or refuse to give a larger chunk of the money to the prize pool they're casting, it should tell you something about their character and whether you should maybe pull back on the funding. You've probably earned your money and should spend it more intelligently.
I hope I get banned.
He went out there to Korea on a wing and prayer and fudged a pathway via passion but I think people forget that Tasteless has been a salaried caster for 15 years now.
Just because his interests at one point aligned with mine, doesn’t mean he’s been doing it purely for the love in the past. I don’t think he lacked interest necessarily, but I think this framing of Tasteless is way off base. It’s holding him to a past standard that he never really actually embodied himself.
Personally I just prefer Stateless to other options, but I haven’t chosen to dig into the Patreon myself. I still think some of the criticism is fucking ridiculous at a time where EWC has shit on the wider SC2 scene from a great height
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On July 12 2025 05:35 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2025 05:03 RogerChillingworth wrote:
People who still want to support SC2 with their money is their business, and I would never expect anyone to cast or organize something for free. But this patreon shit does seem manipulative to me, and has gotten totally out of control. The rhetoric of “saving a game” does a good job of tenderizing people for their cash.
Tasteless does the same thing in StarCraft 1. His slogan is “keep the memory of Brood War alive”. More like keep the career of Tasteless alive. Alive and soaring.
The ASL patreon makes 11K per month in the off-season. I switched to Korean commentary years ago and haven't looked back.
I think Tasteless should prove he cares enough about something to do it for a lot less money. Or do something else. He just comes across as a guy in a suit with metal eyes, instead of the funny dufus he was like 15 years ago. The last thing you want is that slimy feeling with someone you once thought was cool. Who knows though, maybe Tasteless was always a secret asshole. Probably.
There's my wild accusation of the day. Call it a hunch.
To anyone who does support these patreons: see if Tasteless, Artosis, State—whoever else—will still cast with a smaller budget first. If they refuse to cast a game on a much smaller budget, or refuse to give a larger chunk of the money to the prize pool they're casting, it should tell you something about their character and whether you should maybe pull back on the funding. You've probably earned your money and should spend it more intelligently.
I hope I get banned. He went out there to Korea on a wing and prayer and fudged a pathway via passion but I think people forget that Tasteless has been a salaried caster for 15 years now. Just because his interests at one point aligned with mine, doesn’t mean he’s been doing it purely for the love in the past. I don’t think he lacked interest necessarily, but I think this framing of Tasteless is way off base. It’s holding him to a past standard that he never really actually embodied himself. Personally I just prefer Stateless to other options, but I haven’t chosen to dig into the Patreon myself. I still think some of the criticism is fucking ridiculous at a time where EWC has shit on the wider SC2 scene from a great height ]
"I still think some of the criticism is fucking ridiculous at a time where EWC has shit on the wider SC2 scene from a great height" what do you mean?
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United States33388 Posts
On July 12 2025 05:48 ZombieGrub wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2025 05:35 WombaT wrote:On July 12 2025 05:03 RogerChillingworth wrote:
People who still want to support SC2 with their money is their business, and I would never expect anyone to cast or organize something for free. But this patreon shit does seem manipulative to me, and has gotten totally out of control. The rhetoric of “saving a game” does a good job of tenderizing people for their cash.
Tasteless does the same thing in StarCraft 1. His slogan is “keep the memory of Brood War alive”. More like keep the career of Tasteless alive. Alive and soaring.
The ASL patreon makes 11K per month in the off-season. I switched to Korean commentary years ago and haven't looked back.
I think Tasteless should prove he cares enough about something to do it for a lot less money. Or do something else. He just comes across as a guy in a suit with metal eyes, instead of the funny dufus he was like 15 years ago. The last thing you want is that slimy feeling with someone you once thought was cool. Who knows though, maybe Tasteless was always a secret asshole. Probably.
There's my wild accusation of the day. Call it a hunch.
To anyone who does support these patreons: see if Tasteless, Artosis, State—whoever else—will still cast with a smaller budget first. If they refuse to cast a game on a much smaller budget, or refuse to give a larger chunk of the money to the prize pool they're casting, it should tell you something about their character and whether you should maybe pull back on the funding. You've probably earned your money and should spend it more intelligently.
I hope I get banned. He went out there to Korea on a wing and prayer and fudged a pathway via passion but I think people forget that Tasteless has been a salaried caster for 15 years now. Just because his interests at one point aligned with mine, doesn’t mean he’s been doing it purely for the love in the past. I don’t think he lacked interest necessarily, but I think this framing of Tasteless is way off base. It’s holding him to a past standard that he never really actually embodied himself. Personally I just prefer Stateless to other options, but I haven’t chosen to dig into the Patreon myself. I still think some of the criticism is fucking ridiculous at a time where EWC has shit on the wider SC2 scene from a great height ] "I still think some of the criticism is fucking ridiculous at a time where EWC has shit on the wider SC2 scene from a great height" what do you mean?
he thinks it's ethically gross, like many other fans—but you prolly knew this already
Both of you can stop derailing the thread (feel free to bump the old ones tho  )
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Getting one guy'd from leddit of all places is comical. Also it's <current year> and we still have people mentioning ads. The cattle never stop branding themselves.
Going any more aggressive than they did would have been foolish especially for starting out, regardless of how much money was raised. Sure in retrospect minor prize pool adjustments could have been made but I think it's pretty obvious it will be put to use in the future.
Concerning yourself at all with what other people decide to do with their money is asinine.
As long as the tournament has at least some form open qualifiers I'll continue to support it. (Invitationals will always be trash.)
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On July 12 2025 09:05 Waxangel wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2025 05:48 ZombieGrub wrote:On July 12 2025 05:35 WombaT wrote:On July 12 2025 05:03 RogerChillingworth wrote:
People who still want to support SC2 with their money is their business, and I would never expect anyone to cast or organize something for free. But this patreon shit does seem manipulative to me, and has gotten totally out of control. The rhetoric of “saving a game” does a good job of tenderizing people for their cash.
Tasteless does the same thing in StarCraft 1. His slogan is “keep the memory of Brood War alive”. More like keep the career of Tasteless alive. Alive and soaring.
The ASL patreon makes 11K per month in the off-season. I switched to Korean commentary years ago and haven't looked back.
I think Tasteless should prove he cares enough about something to do it for a lot less money. Or do something else. He just comes across as a guy in a suit with metal eyes, instead of the funny dufus he was like 15 years ago. The last thing you want is that slimy feeling with someone you once thought was cool. Who knows though, maybe Tasteless was always a secret asshole. Probably.
There's my wild accusation of the day. Call it a hunch.
To anyone who does support these patreons: see if Tasteless, Artosis, State—whoever else—will still cast with a smaller budget first. If they refuse to cast a game on a much smaller budget, or refuse to give a larger chunk of the money to the prize pool they're casting, it should tell you something about their character and whether you should maybe pull back on the funding. You've probably earned your money and should spend it more intelligently.
I hope I get banned. He went out there to Korea on a wing and prayer and fudged a pathway via passion but I think people forget that Tasteless has been a salaried caster for 15 years now. Just because his interests at one point aligned with mine, doesn’t mean he’s been doing it purely for the love in the past. I don’t think he lacked interest necessarily, but I think this framing of Tasteless is way off base. It’s holding him to a past standard that he never really actually embodied himself. Personally I just prefer Stateless to other options, but I haven’t chosen to dig into the Patreon myself. I still think some of the criticism is fucking ridiculous at a time where EWC has shit on the wider SC2 scene from a great height ] "I still think some of the criticism is fucking ridiculous at a time where EWC has shit on the wider SC2 scene from a great height" what do you mean? he thinks it's ethically gross, like many other fans—but you prolly knew this already Both of you can stop derailing the thread (feel free to bump the old ones tho )
No, that is not why I asked. Why would he phrase it that way to then talk about its ethical issues? I thought he, like some others, may have the notion that EWC has impacted the creation of tournaments because of their delay in announcing the tournament. I didn't want to assume that was why he was bringing it up, so I asked. I also think it is pertinent to the discussion since we are talking about tournament creation and perhaps RSL's impact on it as well.
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the fault lies with the people giving them money.
don’t support charity when the organization running the charity claims extremely high overhead costs and most of your money doesn’t go towards what you want.
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This is clearly a cashgrab. Anyone that doesn't see that or raises their pitchforks to defend against that statement is either a Tasteless fanboy, someone who doesn't know how to do proper math, or people who don't have common sense.
I've been lurking, watching since this whole thing started and was waiting to see if others would see the clear discrepancy and the lack of transparency in how this tournament series operates.
At the time of writing the Patreon stats are: RSL
| Let's bring back StarCraft II |
1,914 members | 22 posts | $12,430/month
This is the current tier that Patreon is on:
Goal 2: Enhanced Online Seasons ($11,000/month)
Event Scope: Three online seasons of your Starcraft 2 tournament.
All features from Goal 1 <-- Remember this, as it's very important.
Launch a regular Patreon-only podcast hosted by Gemini and Ziggy to discuss events, have guest pros and community figures on for interviews.
Increased marketing and promotion efforts.
Potentially bring in guest commentators or analysts for certain matches.
Community engagement initiatives (e.g., player spotlights, fan contests).
If you read the perks of Goal 1:
Goal 1: Base level - we will be operating at this level for 2025 regardless of what level we hit
Event Scope: Two online seasons of your StarCraft 2 tournament.
Prize Pool: 5 million KRW per season (10 million KRW total).
Hosted from a new studio space in Seoul, casters would be offline and together for the broadcast
Features:
Professional broadcast production. 2 broadcasts a week during the season with professional commentators in person and together (State, Gemini, Tasteless, and more!)
-----
The features of Goal 1 and Goal 2 are pretty much the same, other than an extra online season with an assumed prizepool of 5m won or $3625 USD.
It was said that they will operate two online events with a guaranteed prizepool of 10m won or $7,250 USD total between the two. It was stated that this was going to happen regardless of how much is raised.
So, this first tier was pretty much guaranteed already going into this. Studio must've been paid. Sponsorship deals must've been agreed to beforehand to cover the prizepools, because it's highly unlikely they would use funds out of their own pockets to cover these two events. It's high risk without guaranteed returns.
And since they specifically stated that Goal 1: Base level - we will be operating at this level for 2025 regardless of what level we hit
the Patreon could've raised any amount, ranging for several hundred to a couple thousand a month and they still would've been covered for the first tier.
Have you noticed that the Tier 1 is the only tier where they don't give a figure or goal they are trying to reach? I wonder why that is? Could it perhaps be because it was all fully paid for to begin with? Or perhaps because they didn't want to correlate a specific amount to the number of tournaments ran. Because as we can see, moving from Goal 1 to Goal 2, which starts at a whopping $11,000 a month, and for what, really?
The only thing that people are getting for funding that amount are these perks:
Launch a regular Patreon-only podcast hosted by Gemini and Ziggy to discuss events, have guest pros and community figures on for interviews.
Increased marketing and promotion efforts.
Potentially bring in guest commentators or analysts for certain matches.
Community engagement initiatives (e.g., player spotlights, fan contests).
Oh, I forgot, also another online tournament spaced out in the year, with a $3,625 prizepool.
If you can't see how insane that is, let me help you do the math...
$11,000 (current patreon amount) x 12 (months in a year) = $132,000
Let's assume that everything in Goal 1 (since there was no set starting amount) was already paid for before this tournament series was shared with the sc2 community.
So their studio costs, their $7,250 prizepool, and whatever else Goal 1 needed was covered.
The only thing that people are getting for supporting the Goal 2 is an extra online tournament, and some perks that have nothing to do with helping the playerbase and scene thrive.
So that's $132,000 - $3,625 = $128,375 that doesn't go to the talent. Unless of course the casters consider themselves to be the talent, and the players are just there so they have something to talk about.
I estimate that the other 3 are getting paid $2k a month, while Tasteless is probably making $4k a month from the Patreon, plus whatever else from the ads.
Now having said all that, I also believe that people should spend their money on whatever they want to support. If they want to support Tasteless and Co. while getting some good sc2 games, feel free to continue supporting the Patreon.
But if the reason people are supporting this is because they want to help keep the scene alive and support the players, then I would ask for some more transparency, and also accountability instead of silence when people mention these things.
I, too, like Wax was super amused to see another "Documentary" included in the final tier's perks. Alas, some things just never change.
My two cents
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A classic SC2 and SC1 Problem - Perspective!
The sums that are being discussed here a not for "getting rich" off some poor peoples naiveté.
I'm pretty sure that all people participating in the fundraiser are working people - we are a more and more becoming an old scene, lets face it. So before I go into a patreon nowadays I made my calculations if I can afford it.
Many of "us" are middle aged men and women with some brains, so I m not really all for the "people are getting fooled or scammed" approach.
Also important: not everybody likes Tasteless in his Caster Persona, as we can see in this thread. How he is privatly? Not a lot of us know! So people dislike him and conclude, that he is acting in bad faith and trying to do whatever.
Again - perspective: not trying to defend him, just saying most of us in normal day life jobs know, that earning lets say 50 - 60 000 Dollars a year will give you in most countries a decent living condition, and not being super rich or anything.
Third - and for me the most valid question, like stated above: how is the money distributed? Not because I think Tasteless (and the others) are getting rich.
I decided not to chip in, because I follow the argument above: I feel that most of my money should go to the players, because they are giving me what I want: committed athletes trying to play their best and most entertaining games!
So called "overhead" or background costs should be covered by sponsoring and ad revenue.
For that, I would argue, more transparency would be helpful. In SC1, BSL Organizer is trying that as good as he can by showing the stats and money splits, production costs and so on.
I truly believe that such tranparancy would be helpful. I experienced it many times in other contexts, that it helps people get that: perspective. More connection, less suspicion.
Lets see how that journey goes...
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Just for some perspective, players who participate in the FIFA world cup collect less than 10% of the total revenue, granted that most of these players making a tons more money from their club anyway so nobody crying about it.
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I think people massively underestimate the costs of putting on productions like these. Even for a hybrid event like this one, the prize pool will generally be a small cost compared to the execution costs. They kitted out and are running from a professional studio, which will not be cheap at all. They also plan to reinvest some of the money into improving and growing the event - e.g. extra seasons, and hopefully going offline eventually.
Sure, the people involved are drawing a salary, because of course they aren't working for free, but I highly doubt they are seeing amazing day rates at this point in time.
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I wouldn't necessarily assume it's malicious rather than just something that was planned backwards so-to-say. I think it's pretty clear they started with the goal of making a tournament to potentially replace GSL, they would have already been planning when it was unclear if there would be GSL this year at all. But because that's a big goal, they started out big, so RSL probably has very high costs (studio, production, etc.) for something that, in its current form, could be organized and produced at home.
I think they overextended trying to make RSL appealing quickly to the audience in hopes of being able to do at least offline finals soon, but whatever is left of SC2's audience would have been perfectly happy with the tournament being run from Tasteless' apartment for a while and having better payouts for the players.
Also I don't think they're getting nearly enough money from the Patreon for this to be a viable cash grab scheme while actually putting on the tournament they promised.
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On July 12 2025 19:10 Elentos wrote:
they started out big, so RSL probably has very high costs (studio, production, etc.) for something that, in its current form, could be organized and produced at home.
yes. exactly. if you asked me "do you want this online tournament to be casted from a studio, or casted from home and the players get an extra $80,000 a year in prizepool", i would have said prizepool. I think studio is only really necessary if you are going to play offline. i dont see the point otherwise. It looks more professional sure, i guess, but how much of a difference does that really make when other online tournaments like pigsty get the same viewership. I would have liked to see it all online then if you reach whatever crowdfunding benchmark to play matches offline THEN you get the studio and production team etc.
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Northern Ireland25273 Posts
On July 12 2025 09:59 ZombieGrub wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2025 09:05 Waxangel wrote:On July 12 2025 05:48 ZombieGrub wrote:On July 12 2025 05:35 WombaT wrote:On July 12 2025 05:03 RogerChillingworth wrote:
People who still want to support SC2 with their money is their business, and I would never expect anyone to cast or organize something for free. But this patreon shit does seem manipulative to me, and has gotten totally out of control. The rhetoric of “saving a game” does a good job of tenderizing people for their cash.
Tasteless does the same thing in StarCraft 1. His slogan is “keep the memory of Brood War alive”. More like keep the career of Tasteless alive. Alive and soaring.
The ASL patreon makes 11K per month in the off-season. I switched to Korean commentary years ago and haven't looked back.
I think Tasteless should prove he cares enough about something to do it for a lot less money. Or do something else. He just comes across as a guy in a suit with metal eyes, instead of the funny dufus he was like 15 years ago. The last thing you want is that slimy feeling with someone you once thought was cool. Who knows though, maybe Tasteless was always a secret asshole. Probably.
There's my wild accusation of the day. Call it a hunch.
To anyone who does support these patreons: see if Tasteless, Artosis, State—whoever else—will still cast with a smaller budget first. If they refuse to cast a game on a much smaller budget, or refuse to give a larger chunk of the money to the prize pool they're casting, it should tell you something about their character and whether you should maybe pull back on the funding. You've probably earned your money and should spend it more intelligently.
I hope I get banned. He went out there to Korea on a wing and prayer and fudged a pathway via passion but I think people forget that Tasteless has been a salaried caster for 15 years now. Just because his interests at one point aligned with mine, doesn’t mean he’s been doing it purely for the love in the past. I don’t think he lacked interest necessarily, but I think this framing of Tasteless is way off base. It’s holding him to a past standard that he never really actually embodied himself. Personally I just prefer Stateless to other options, but I haven’t chosen to dig into the Patreon myself. I still think some of the criticism is fucking ridiculous at a time where EWC has shit on the wider SC2 scene from a great height ] "I still think some of the criticism is fucking ridiculous at a time where EWC has shit on the wider SC2 scene from a great height" what do you mean? he thinks it's ethically gross, like many other fans—but you prolly knew this already Both of you can stop derailing the thread (feel free to bump the old ones tho ) No, that is not why I asked. Why would he phrase it that way to then talk about its ethical issues? I thought he, like some others, may have the notion that EWC has impacted the creation of tournaments because of their delay in announcing the tournament. I didn't want to assume that was why he was bringing it up, so I asked. I also think it is pertinent to the discussion since we are talking about tournament creation and perhaps RSL's impact on it as well.
You assumed correctly, and OK my phrasing was a bit hyperbolic. But at almost every juncture, to me EWC makes calls that aren’t beneficial to the wider SC2 scene’s health.
Is having a set of show matches between washed-up legends at Gamers 8 cool? Sure. Is it worth putting more prize money into than a GSL or something in terms of wider sustainability? Probably not.
In some quarters I feel they get given a pass via a ‘please sir can we have some more?’ or a ‘well it’s all we got’ rationale.
Which, by itself I have no issue with especially. I’ve also no issue with the microscope being put on Tasteless et al either, I just find the combination of one but not the other somewhat aggravating.
In the interests of not derailing, I think they intersect here, but I’m reading between many lines and don’t have insider information.
The RSL screams to me something that was initially planned to fill a GSL-sized hole eventually. Similar format, featuring the Korean-based casters etc, offline stretch goals.
Basically what Elentos said.
Then EWC gets announced and GSL returns and you’re left with all this groundwork you did in a period of uncertainty, and what to do with it.
In a nutshell I feel the Revival boys and gals are getting criticism for trying to deliver something they wouldn’t have cooked up in the first place but for the genuinely preposterous delays on EWC confirmation.
Again, to reiterate I don’t think it makes them immune to criticism, but I don’t think some people are doing it through that particular lens, or factoring in that aspect of it.
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On July 11 2025 22:03 Toshinou-Kyouko wrote:
Show proof that Tasteless is actually pocketing the money for the prizepool
Can you direct me to where they've publicly posted their accounting journal or at least the business's (I'm assuming they incorporated rather than are running this as a non-profit) balance sheet and statement of cash flows?
I'd be particularly interested in seeing entries related to Tasteless paying the corporation to advertise his merchandise and how those payments compare to the other advertising on the event.
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I don't think it's a scam and don't really see why someone like Serral would accept and then decline due to this because they made everything clear from the beginning. It was very simple math from the moment the patreon was announced to determine that <10% of the money was prize pool. I do personally disagree with the prize/production split and chose not to donate for that reason despite regularly donating to other events that give more to the players.
I am disappointed in the scene itself for the amount of money going to this though. I'm pretty sure it's near equal to if not higher than the peak GSL patreon which was for an offline event and gave all patreon money to players (last year). I love Tastosis but between this and ASL the hold they have on the scenes money is kind of crazy. $25k/month between those two things with barely a fraction going to players. Imagine if the GSL patreon had hit $25k/month. We likely would have had at least some type of small GSL indefinitely.
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The situation is quite simple.
I will begin with an assumption: Tasteless does not have a reliable full time career besides casting at the moment. If I'm wrong about this, then everything that follows is kinda moot, so forgive me if that is the case and please let me know. I did some cursory searches online and have found nothing indicating that he is reliably employed in some other field, though.
Anyway, Tasteless has dedicated decades of his life to a career which is now in its twilight phase. He had risen to the top of the niche he occupied (StarCraft). At this juncture, pivoting to a different game and repeating the feat would be more attainable for him than most, but still a mountain to climb (yes, he has casted other games, but I will bravely assume that he did not hold the same position on the metaphorical totem pole, so to speak).
He is 40 years old. While his successful generational peers have spent the past 20 years building careers in finance, science, politics, etc., he has spent them on a video game that is in its inevitable decline and has no new installments on the horizon. While his peers have gone to graduate school, attained certifications, and developed sought-after skills which allowed them to climb their respective career ladders, he has been investing himself into this game. He cannot compete with them in their fields, just as they cannot compete with him in his. However, while StarCraft as a whole is in a decline, industries like banking, software, engineering, etc. will likely be around for generations to come.
In short, he followed his passion and is now faced with a choice:
A. Cold pivot to another industry and start practically from scratch while competing with fresh college graduates*, or
B. Pivot to a different game/scene as a caster/organizer and hope that his accolades and experience will allow him to eventually bring him to the same level of income and job stability he enjoyed in StarCraft's heyday, or
C. Milk this dying cow for every drop it has left while (hopefully) considering/pursuing A or B. I think we can all agree that unless something significant changes - such as the well-funded and well-received release of StarCraft 3 - that Tasteless will not be able to continue doing this for the next 27 years and be able to retire comfortably by casting/organizing hybrid StarCraft tournaments.
I think the choice is obvious.
So, yes, I think everyone donating to this should be doing so with the knowledge that Tasteless & co. are likely positioning themselves to be as much the talent and beneficiaries as the players are. If you don't think they deserve the "salary" they will be getting for what they are promising to do, then don't donate. If you think they deserve more, donate more. Simple as.
For example, the English-speaking BW scene - or at least hundreds of donors within it - believe(s) that Tastosis deserve $12k/month year-round to release weeks-delayed English broadcasts of ASL games. From my perspective, that is ludicrous, but it's not my money to give, and it's certainly not my place to tell donors how to spend their money. It's clear in this case that Tasteless + Artosis ARE the talent/service which is being donated to; for RSL, it can be viewed as a tournament series + that. Again, simple.
Perhaps another way of looking at it is that the community is rewarding Tasteless for his dedication to the community and the work he has done over the past 20 years, much like how our taxes are used to fund veterans' pensions. Except, in this case, it is purely optional.
Would more transparency be welcome? Of course, always. But no matter what that final $ amount going into Tasteless' pocket is, it was voluntarily placed there by the community, and I wouldn't say it's entirely undeserved.
To close out on a more personal note, I had the opportunity to hang out with Tasteless and several other prominent StarCraft people for a bit in what I think was IdrA's hotel room in a relaxed setting (not a "meet and greet" or whatever) many years ago, and he seemed like a swell guy. It's always plausible that over the course of several years and when put into a tough financial disposition, a person can pull a 180 and become a profit-driven asshole, using the good will they've built up to take advantage of the community that helped them build a career in the first place. Tasteless didn't strike me as that kind of guy, nor does this tournament seem to be a manifestation of those kinds of motivations, though.
* ETA: I guess there is also the possibility that he might get a foot in the door in some soft skill position through the connections he made in the scene, but let's just consider this a subset of this broader point.
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Regarding Serral, he said on his discord he forfeited because he wanted to focus on EWC.
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On July 13 2025 00:45 JJH777 wrote:
I don't think it's a scam and don't really see why someone like Serral would accept and then decline due to this because they made everything clear from the beginning. It was very simple math from the moment the patreon was announced to determine that <10% of the money was prize pool. I do personally disagree with the prize/production split and chose not to donate for that reason despite regularly donating to other events that give more to the players.
I am disappointed in the scene itself for the amount of money going to this though. I'm pretty sure it's near equal to if not higher than the peak GSL patreon which was for an offline event and gave all patreon money to players (last year). I love Tastosis but between this and ASL the hold they have on the scenes money is kind of crazy. $25k/month between those two things with barely a fraction going to players. Imagine if the GSL patreon had hit $25k/month. We likely would have had at least some type of small GSL indefinitely.
There is a pretty easy reason for this though: Tastosis (or just Tasteless in this case) make it pretty clear that they couldn't do it without the support and they deliver.
GSL (or Afreeca in general) from the very beginning basically said "fuck the foreign viewers, we don't need or want them". Even when the Patreon was on, they didn't care at all about the non-korean viewers, they half-assed the entire thing. Ffs they couldn't even care enough to turn the Patreon off during the EWC-induced downtime.
They really went "please finance our entire tournament and don't expect anything for it, we rather want the sixty people in Korea who watch this than the thousands globally" and you are surprised people went "nah, fuck that"?
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I genuinely don't know which is true, whether people (casters, organizers, players) generally believe the scene to be in its final moments and are OK with any money that comes their way, or if they are still very passionate about the scene and want it to be healthy and grow back even stronger over a long period of time. Depending on how you feel, you'll likely want and expect very different shit. As in, maybe you thought all hope was lost so some RSL prize money is alright with you, even if it's a bad deal and production is taking most of it. Or maybe you want SC2 to be really healthy and awesome and you think this is all a big load of crap.
If it's the latter, and I were a SC2 pro in this situation, I would form a coalition with other players that stimulates a tournament circuit that's in everyone's best interest. I wouldn't wait around for someone else to do it. I certainly wouldn't want the cookie monster of esports money to do it. Drive a truck through the thing and take the scene into your own hands. Appoint someone to lead the charge—Scarlett? Showtime? Astrea? Solar?—and hire some passionate commentators who are cool taking a more appropriate cut.
Organizing the whole shebang, renting studio space, and figuring out all the logistics is probably not second nature to most players, and might make me feel uncomfortable if all I did was play. But honestly, probably good shit to learn how to do well. You can cut the bloat and have clear, transparent finances. No more clowns at the birthday party.
But I would assume, deep down, that everyone does want a new modern Blizz-style RTS, or perhaps a diff game altogether. But the baton hasn't been passed yet, so it's awkward. It's a weird situation. Almost comical, actually. But also very sad indeed.
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As a patron I just want more transparency, that's all.
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I wonder if RSL has written permission from Blizzard to operate outside of the rules listed in the Blizzard Community Competition License.
Crowdfunding:
You must use all of the proceeds of the crowdfunding campaign for the development and promotion of the event, and you may not retain any portion of the crowdfunding proceeds as profit.
If RSL is owned by Tasteless, paying the other casters probably does not run afoul of this, but paying himself almost certainly does. If it is a shared ownership, then I can't see how they can pay themselves.
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Reading through the thread leaves me with a weird feeling. Hard to put in words:
We only have the little patreon page details to go on, and everything else is speculation, isn't it? So we don't really know what's what. What if, just hypothetically, they’re acting in good faith and genuinely trying to do something positive for the SC2 scene? If that’s the case, then some of the post here might be pretty harsh. Idk. It's not like they are unkown people in the scene that nobody here has the possibility to simply ask. Maybe that’s what we should do: ask them for a bit more transparency and see how they respond, before jumping to conclusions or heavy criticism. And maybe giving them the benefit of the doubt for now -- after all, they've been part of this community for over a decade, haven’t they?
2 posts i appreciate:
On July 13 2025 01:59 MrBrown wrote:
Regarding Serral, he said on his discord he forfeited because he wanted to focus on EWC.
On July 13 2025 05:31 Ransgor wrote:
As a patron I just want more transparency, that's all.
1 post I like to anwser to, derayling from this thread (sry & edit):
On July 12 2025 17:52 tigera6 wrote:
Just for some perspective, players who participate in the FIFA world cup collect less than 10% of the total revenue, granted that most of these players making a tons more money from their club anyway so nobody crying about it.
First of all, even though RSL and FIFA WC are both sport tournaments, is there any merrit at all to compare those two in this context?
Second, of course people don't cry out if some poor professional football player only gets 1 mio dollars instead of 10. I wonder why...
Third, why would you, in this context, name FIFA and RSL producers in one sentence? By fact FIFA is a bunch of corrupt male dudes giving zero fucks about human rights or even lifes. One could even sensibly argue they don't give a fuck about the sport they are supposed to represent...
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On July 13 2025 01:10 Jealous wrote:
The situation is quite simple.
I will begin with an assumption: Tasteless does not have a reliable full time career besides casting at the moment. If I'm wrong about this, then everything that follows is kinda moot, so forgive me if that is the case and please let me know. I did some cursory searches online and have found nothing indicating that he is reliably employed in some other field, though.
Anyway, Tasteless has dedicated decades of his life to a career which is now in its twilight phase. He had risen to the top of the niche he occupied (StarCraft). At this juncture, pivoting to a different game and repeating the feat would be more attainable for him than most, but still a mountain to climb (yes, he has casted other games, but I will bravely assume that he did not hold the same position on the metaphorical totem pole, so to speak).
He is 40 years old. While his successful generational peers have spent the past 20 years building careers in finance, science, politics, etc., he has spent them on a video game that is in its inevitable decline and has no new installments on the horizon. While his peers have gone to graduate school, attained certifications, and developed sought-after skills which allowed them to climb their respective career ladders, he has been investing himself into this game. He cannot compete with them in their fields, just as they cannot compete with him in his. However, while StarCraft as a whole is in a decline, industries like banking, software, engineering, etc. will likely be around for generations to come.
In short, he followed his passion and is now faced with a choice:
A. Cold pivot to another industry and start practically from scratch while competing with fresh college graduates*, or
B. Pivot to a different game/scene as a caster/organizer and hope that his accolades and experience will allow him to eventually bring him to the same level of income and job stability he enjoyed in StarCraft's heyday, or
C. Milk this dying cow for every drop it has left while (hopefully) considering/pursuing A or B. I think we can all agree that unless something significant changes - such as the well-funded and well-received release of StarCraft 3 - that Tasteless will not be able to continue doing this for the next 27 years and be able to retire comfortably by casting/organizing hybrid StarCraft tournaments.
I think the choice is obvious.
So, yes, I think everyone donating to this should be doing so with the knowledge that Tasteless & co. are likely positioning themselves to be as much the talent and beneficiaries as the players are. If you don't think they deserve the "salary" they will be getting for what they are promising to do, then don't donate. If you think they deserve more, donate more. Simple as.
For example, the English-speaking BW scene - or at least hundreds of donors within it - believe(s) that Tastosis deserve $12k/month year-round to release weeks-delayed English broadcasts of ASL games. From my perspective, that is ludicrous, but it's not my money to give, and it's certainly not my place to tell donors how to spend their money. It's clear in this case that Tasteless + Artosis ARE the talent/service which is being donated to; for RSL, it can be viewed as a tournament series + that. Again, simple.
Perhaps another way of looking at it is that the community is rewarding Tasteless for his dedication to the community and the work he has done over the past 20 years, much like how our taxes are used to fund veterans' pensions. Except, in this case, it is purely optional.
Would more transparency be welcome? Of course, always. But no matter what that final $ amount going into Tasteless' pocket is, it was voluntarily placed there by the community, and I wouldn't say it's entirely undeserved.
To close out on a more personal note, I had the opportunity to hang out with Tasteless and several other prominent StarCraft people for a bit in what I think was IdrA's hotel room in a relaxed setting (not a "meet and greet" or whatever) many years ago, and he seemed like a swell guy. It's always plausible that over the course of several years and when put into a tough financial disposition, a person can pull a 180 and become a profit-driven asshole, using the good will they've built up to take advantage of the community that helped them build a career in the first place. Tasteless didn't strike me as that kind of guy, nor does this tournament seem to be a manifestation of those kinds of motivations, though.
* ETA: I guess there is also the possibility that he might get a foot in the door in some soft skill position through the connections he made in the scene, but let's just consider this a subset of this broader point.
Well said I appreciate your post
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Getting a new event is awesome... if the prize pool split is like someone said <10% that would be outrageous. I hope this is not true. If so - I wish people would not donate to this one. This could be a blow to the whole scene if true.
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On July 13 2025 15:20 jodljodl wrote:Reading through the thread leaves me with a weird feeling. Hard to put in words: We only have the little patreon page details to go on, and everything else is speculation, isn't it? So we don't really know what's what. What if, just hypothetically, they’re acting in good faith and genuinely trying to do something positive for the SC2 scene? If that’s the case, then some of the post here might be pretty harsh. Idk. It's not like they are unkown people in the scene that nobody here has the possibility to simply ask. Maybe that’s what we should do: ask them for a bit more transparency and see how they respond, before jumping to conclusions or heavy criticism. And maybe giving them the benefit of the doubt for now -- after all, they've been part of this community for over a decade, haven’t they? 2 posts i appreciate: Show nested quote +On July 13 2025 01:59 MrBrown wrote:
Regarding Serral, he said on his discord he forfeited because he wanted to focus on EWC. Show nested quote +On July 13 2025 05:31 Ransgor wrote:
As a patron I just want more transparency, that's all. 1 post I like to anwser to, derayling from this thread (sry & edit): Show nested quote +On July 12 2025 17:52 tigera6 wrote:
Just for some perspective, players who participate in the FIFA world cup collect less than 10% of the total revenue, granted that most of these players making a tons more money from their club anyway so nobody crying about it. First of all, even though RSL and FIFA WC are both sport tournaments, is there any merrit at all to compare those two in this context? Second, of course people don't cry out if some poor professional football player only gets 1 mio dollars instead of 10. I wonder why... Third, why would you, in this context, name FIFA and RSL producers in one sentence? By fact FIFA is a bunch of corrupt male dudes giving zero fucks about human rights or even lifes. One could even sensibly argue they don't give a fuck about the sport they are supposed to represent...
Where did I say that because the World Cup has such split, other sports or tournaments must follow the same rule? And I dont give a damn if you hate FIFA so much and boycott all of their events, Blizzard arent doing better things for BW/SC. I was simply making a case about how tournament prizepool that go into players is just a small portion of the total revenue, and the World Cup is probably the biggest one with known data. Stop getting triggered and making a big deal out of everything.
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I feel that the main points were made already. Maybe somebody closer to the guys should ask them? Maybe some of the patreon supporters? I feel they have the leverage here to just ask nicely. Like someone said above: they are part of "our" scene and community for many years already, benefit of the doubt and such...
On the other hand I have to say I m a bit torn: as somebody who had to lead a insolvency of a small business I made the experience that giving numbers always leads to people opening their calculator on windows and or on their phone and start making home made business plans and always know it better...
And yes I know earlier I said transparency is generally good but it has its limited usefulness :D Ah man, complicated.
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On July 13 2025 18:11 Lambertus wrote:
I feel that the main points were made already. Maybe somebody closer to the guys should ask them? Maybe some of the patreon supporters? I feel they have the leverage here to just ask nicely. Like someone said above: they are part of "our" scene and community for many years already, benefit of the doubt and such...
On the other hand I have to say I m a bit torn: as somebody who had to lead a insolvency of a small business I made the experience that giving numbers always leads to people opening their calculator on windows and or on their phone and start making home made business plans and always know it better...
And yes I know earlier I said transparency is generally good but it has its limited usefulness :D Ah man, complicated.
Ask them what? There are no secrets, it is public how much money goes to players and how much they get monthly from Patreon.
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First of all, HUGE fan of Artosis and Tasteless and I hope this post will not be seen as negative. As a person that supports multiple SC tournament organizers I would like to have more clearer picture how money is spent, because people like Wardi do better job.
I am confident RSL is designed to eventually replace GSL, but to start the project with the model where players who are your main ingredient get less than 10 % of the money raised just doesn't seem right. I hope this will be only in initial stage (first year).
There is another parallel some others have made, ASL cast. Basically it raises over 11000 $ per month, and I as supporter feel like I am not getting anymore my money's worth. Basically, ASL is running twice a year, let's stretch it to 6 months a year. With money raised in other months I feel more content should be produced. So, if we view it like that, more people should be complaining about money raised for ASL, because RSL is trying to run tournaments.
I think most of the people in this topic are on the same page, we want to support SC tournaments, but give us better insight how many is being spent, and why players are not getting more. No one is saying caster talents should not earn money, or that production should not be great, but players deserve more.
Otherwise, I will seriously consider to change my subscription in order to support these causes only in months in which content is being provided. Others also made another great point, most of us are middle aged lurkers, and being older in life means you pay more attention to the things you are willing to invest your money.
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Northern Ireland25273 Posts
On July 13 2025 18:11 Lambertus wrote:
I feel that the main points were made already. Maybe somebody closer to the guys should ask them? Maybe some of the patreon supporters? I feel they have the leverage here to just ask nicely. Like someone said above: they are part of "our" scene and community for many years already, benefit of the doubt and such...
On the other hand I have to say I m a bit torn: as somebody who had to lead a insolvency of a small business I made the experience that giving numbers always leads to people opening their calculator on windows and or on their phone and start making home made business plans and always know it better...
And yes I know earlier I said transparency is generally good but it has its limited usefulness :D Ah man, complicated.
I’m generally for transparency but people can get a bit weird with it at the same time. Often you’ll see people compare the transparent data with unknowns or assumptions. Or have unrealistic demands.
Whatever salary Tasteless is pulling, you’ll get some people saying he’s being greedy or whatever and I could 100% see that being lower than his going rate as a SC2 caster for much of the game’s existence.
Frost Giant is a good example of transparency being a double-edged sword of sorts.
Again, I’m not advocating against transparency but I think it can open the door to criticisms that are frankly unreasonable at the same time.
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On July 13 2025 19:00 riche wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2025 18:11 Lambertus wrote:
I feel that the main points were made already. Maybe somebody closer to the guys should ask them? Maybe some of the patreon supporters? I feel they have the leverage here to just ask nicely. Like someone said above: they are part of "our" scene and community for many years already, benefit of the doubt and such...
On the other hand I have to say I m a bit torn: as somebody who had to lead a insolvency of a small business I made the experience that giving numbers always leads to people opening their calculator on windows and or on their phone and start making home made business plans and always know it better...
And yes I know earlier I said transparency is generally good but it has its limited usefulness :D Ah man, complicated. Ask them what? There are no secrets, it is public how much money goes to players and how much they get monthly from Patreon.
What I mean is for example what is being asked here a lot:
how much of it is costs for technical production, studio rent, digital content like logos, graphics, as well as caster salaries.
Now, just speaking in general terms, not every company is obliged to give these numbers in great detail, it really depends on the legal form of the company, what country they reside and so on.
If they are operating in Korea, I m not sure how it works there. In Germany there are different forms and possibilities to operate these kind of events or production. At the very least, if you are registered as a company or some form of legal entity, you will have to give some numbers of your balance sheet, some of them for the state, some you will have to go public with.
Again, I like the RSL guys, I consider myself one of the faction that says: good, that they are doing stuff! Don't want to come on as somebody wanting to make unnecessary pressure. Just asking things that are for many of us normal to ask the moment there are larger sums of money (for "us" in SC at least) involved...
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You may even say I ask them out of curiosity - wouldnt it be interesting for other people to know about these numbers? It can help to gain perspective if we want to do these kind of things ourselfs!
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It definitely is not a good look no matter how you look at it. For now looks like milking the dead cow. I hope it is not the case.
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On July 13 2025 17:33 tigera6 wrote:
Where did I say that because the World Cup has such split, other sports or tournaments must follow the same rule? And I dont give a damn if you hate FIFA so much and boycott all of their events, Blizzard arent doing better things for BW/SC. I was simply making a case about how tournament prizepool that go into players is just a small portion of the total revenue, and the World Cup is probably the biggest one with known data. Stop getting triggered and making a big deal out of everything.
Okay mate
What was the point of your original post?
You're trying to add another perspective to the discussion — specifically, regarding the share of revenue that RSL organizers pass on to the participating players.
To do so, you bring up the example of the FIFA Men’s World Cup.
If I focus only on that particular point, I think your example is poorly chosen. On one side, we have the RSL organizers; on the other, FIFA. And on one side we have the Men’s Football World Cup; on the other, RSL.
The only relevant connection I can see between FIFA and the RSL organizers — or between the World Cup and the RSL — is that both are tournament organizers and both are sports tournaments.
Other than that, these examples couldn’t be more different. The Men’s Football World Cup: in many ways, the biggest sporting event in the world — a sports tournament, not an esports one. The RSL: a relatively small and quite young tournament in the now niche game SC2 — an esports tournament.
So yeah… no idea why this comparison is supposed to be meaningful. Wow — two tournaments, that otherwise couldn’t be further apart.
Now about the organizers. The same thing applies, more or less. No idea what this comparison is supposed to add.
That’s my view regarding what you explicitly stated in your post.
Now, the overall discussion isn’t just about how much of the revenue goes to the players. Another part is that many people underestimate how much work and cost go into organizing something like the RSL;
or there’s also the issue of transparency — how open the organizers are, and how different hypothetical situations would be judged morally.
That’s why I think it’s quite fair to interpret your post in that broader context too. And since FIFA is known for being corrupt and non-transparent — that’s not an opinion, that’s fact (if you don’t know, do a bit of googling…) —
and I assume you didn’t randomly choose this example, I find it very problematic to compare RSL organizers to FIFA in this particular context, at this time. That’s what I tried to express, informally, in my third point.
Now to your reply
"Where did I say that because the World Cup has such split, other sports or tournaments must follow the same rule?"
Nowhere. You're just giving us this perspective — for whatever reason. But I also never claimed that you said that.
What I am implying is that comparing RSL participants to World Cup participants in this context makes no sense — because it’s two completely different worlds…
"And I dont give a damn if you hate FIFA so much and boycott all of their events, Blizzard arent doing better things for BW/SC."
I don't hate FIFA. But morally speaking, they're just a bunch of shitty people I’d only talk to if they were in immediate danger. Why? I already hinted at.
Also, I don’t boycott their events — but I would, if I had any interest in professional football.
I really don’t understand why you're bringing up Blizzard at all. They haven’t been mentioned anywhere in the discussion.
It’s like me bringing up the woman who invented football.
"I was simply making a case about how tournament prizepool that go into players is just a small portion of the total revenue, and the World Cup is probably the biggest one with known data."
I wouldn’t call 10% of total revenue a small portion — but I was genuinely surprised by how much the FIFA gives to the teams, and how much usually ends up with the players. I never would’ve guessed it was that high.
But as mentioned before: cool that the wealthiest football federation in the world pays 10% of the revenue to the teams at the biggest sports event on earth.
We’re talking about average payouts to each individual player that are probably higher than what the RSL organizers will ever collect for the RSL, total.
When I was younger, I played in an orchestra and did some chamber music. The events weren’t organized by me or the other musicians, but by third parties.
Sometimes we had commercial gigs. In those cases, all the money went to the musicians — nothing to the organizers.
How useful do you think that perspective would be in a discussion about how much the musicians of the London Symphony Orchestra should earn?
"Stop getting triggered and making a big deal out of everything."
My two cents: People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
Have a nice day, dude
ps: if you wanna continue to discuss please write an pm. not gonna follow up on any fifa shizzle in this thread. thank you
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> Sometimes we had commercial gigs. In those cases, all the money went to the musicians — nothing to the organizers.
This is only possible if organizers are doing it for charity, or they get all the money from sold drinks / food / whatever is sold there. To organize a music event is quite expensive - rent the venue, equipment, specialists to work with that equipment etc. And unless it's a charity event - people rarely do that for free.
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On July 14 2025 19:52 ZeroByte13 wrote:
> Sometimes we had commercial gigs. In those cases, all the money went to the musicians — nothing to the organizers.
This is only possible if organizers are doing it for charity, or they get all the money from sold drinks / food / whatever is sold there. To organize a music event is quite expensive - rent the venue, equipment, specialists to work with that equipment etc. And unless it's a charity event - people rarely do that for free.
All of it was charity on the side of the organizers. And yes, of course people rarely do it for free, because everybody has to make a living. But this is not my point. My point is, comparing any two organizers just because the organize the same typ of event (musical, sports or whatever) does not make it sensible in every case. For example FIFA or the Tasteless & Co. when it comes to the % of revenue the RSL participants get. Or my orchestra and the London Symphony Orchestra in the analogue context.
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People advocating for a small private company to have their staff work for free and publish all their numbers are insane. Can we shut this thread down? I don't know why it wasn't when OP was banned for making it.
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On July 14 2025 19:07 jodljodl wrote:
Now, the overall discussion isn’t just about how much of the revenue goes to the players. Another part is that many people underestimate how much work and cost go into organizing something like the RSL;
I've literally seen Wardi organize a new tournament on stream and it took him less than an hour. Even if you pretend that they have to do all of the qualifiers from scratch rather than just taking the format they've written and change the dates and server, you're talking approximately 5 hours for the actual tournament organization.
A majority of the costs associated with this event are a product of choices they've made for the event. Renting a studio isn't an absolute requirement. If they bought new equipment for that studio, that's not an absolute requirement as Tasteless was already a streamer/caster. Even if you pretend those costs are required, if the goal was to "save Starcraft", they could just run the tournament like those that allow community casts and let those be paid by the people who are already paying them and would likely cast the event for free.
On July 14 2025 19:07 jodljodl wrote:
I wouldn’t call 10% of total revenue a small portion
10% is an absurdly low portion, especially considering the lack of inherent costs.
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On July 14 2025 21:41 Haighstrom wrote:
People advocating for a small private company to have their staff work for free and publish all their numbers are insane. Can we shut this thread down? I don't know why it wasn't when OP was banned for making it.
nice 10% tourney advocating yourself buddy, well done here
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What makes no sense is that there are months where there are no tournaments running but they are raising money. What happens to that money?
There are no games, no content, just a month-long break.
Why don't they use those off-season months where money is coming in to put into the prizepool of the next round? They could easily raise the prizepool by $12k, but instead they keep it.
With the amount they are currently raising every month, they could run a tournament a month.
You can tell how shady this shit is when they kept asking people to subscribe to the Patreon even though it was the last series of the season.
Even shadier now with this thread being up for over a week, nothing is clarified, and they are just continue leaving the community in the dark.
And supporters are saying that everything is on the up and up. Blind loyalty is funny sometimes.
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I just skimmed this thread and I didn't see the revenue made from actually streaming on twitch and YT mentioned once. The Patreon is not the only source of income.
I do expect the pricepools go up longterm, especially after the inital start up costs are back in.
Only with attractive pricepools will there be enough talent worth watching after all.
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If they really raised more than 100k and offer only 10% to save starcraft scene... How can you even call that? More than absurd. It's not about the money even. Just don't pretend you do something for the community.
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United States33388 Posts
The budget/prize distribution was very clear from the start. Even accounting for the fact that people tend to skim over walls of text, I think it's pretty disingenuous to claim RSL was trying to trick people . Even though the "saving StarCraft 2" sales pitch makes me roll my eyes, it's hardly the kind of exaggerated marketing that feels shady.
The more interesting and relevant discussion is around the kind of donors they attracted, and whether or not they could be convinced to contribute to other events with a more equitable donation split.
One key factor is just lack of information. I'd venture to guess that most SC2 viewers are fairly casual, and they're not getting news about tournaments unless it's ESL or streamers with the biggest platforms promoting them. Tasteless definitely has a way bigger platform than others, so naturally more interest/money is going to flow his way.
The other aspect is whether or not people would actually support other events if they did know about them. It might be hard for hardcore fans to process (I count me and most of the people who are still reading TL.net as among the most hardcore fans), but I can see how more casual fans just don't have the bandwidth to think about how their spending affects the broader scene. They just like Tasteless, they probably liked the GSL, so if they have an extra $5-10 to spend on SC2, they're probably just going to send it to the thing that feels most familiar. Personally, I'd prefer to donate to Wardi/PiG/TakeTV/whoever over current RSL 100% of the time, but I'm still glad the RSL patrons are supporting something related to SC2.
To make a strained analogy (many such cases), you could consider how donations to charity work. A lot of people who have some extra change to donate are probably going to go with the biggest name charities that they've familiar with, even though a lot of them are inefficient and not as 'effective' as smaller charities. Not many people are going to do the research to find the 'best' cause for them to donate to, and are content to have done SOME good by donating to the [big charity X].
While you'd hope the big charities improve their practices, in realistic terms, the onus is on the people who DO care about efficient donating to get the information out and convince people to contribute to what they perceive as better causes. In the case of charitable donations, that actually has happened, and you notice some shifts in the way people think about it. Could that happens for the post-ESL/Blizzard StarCraft II scene as well? Time will tell
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Honestly, what we need at this point is for someone to email Blizzard and ask if tournament organizers are allowed to pay themselves out of community raised funds, and if not, if RSL has written permission to do so.
If Blizzard says it is ok or they have permission, then the debate about whether people who are donating are being adequately informed as to where the money is going and whether the amount that seems to be going to RSL's pockets is acceptable.
If Blizzard says it is not ok and they do not have written permission, then obviously things get interesting.
I've thought about doing it, but I've been lazy.
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Northern Ireland25273 Posts
On July 16 2025 10:12 Waxangel wrote:The budget/prize distribution was very clear from the start. Even accounting for the fact that people tend to skim over walls of text, I think it's pretty disingenuous to claim RSL was trying to trick people . Even though the "saving StarCraft 2" sales pitch makes me roll my eyes, it's hardly the kind of exaggerated marketing that feels shady. The more interesting and relevant discussion is around the kind of donors they attracted, and whether or not they could be convinced to contribute to other events with a more equitable donation split. One key factor is just lack of information. I'd venture to guess that most SC2 viewers are fairly casual, and they're not getting news about tournaments unless it's ESL or streamers with the biggest platforms promoting them. Tasteless definitely has a way bigger platform than others, so naturally more interest/money is going to flow his way. The other aspect is whether or not people would actually support other events if they did know about them. It might be hard for hardcore fans to process (I count me and most of the people who are still reading TL.net as among the most hardcore fans), but I can see how more casual fans just don't have the bandwidth to think about how their spending affects the broader scene. They just like Tasteless, they probably liked the GSL, so if they have an extra $5-10 to spend on SC2, they're probably just going to send it to the thing that feels most familiar. Personally, I'd prefer to donate to Wardi/PiG/TakeTV/whoever over current RSL 100% of the time, but I'm still glad the RSL patrons are supporting something related to SC2. To make a strained analogy (many such cases), you could consider how donations to charity work. A lot of people who have some extra change to donate are probably going to go with the biggest name charities that they've familiar with, even though a lot of them are inefficient and not as 'effective' as smaller charities. Not many people are going to do the research to find the 'best' cause for them to donate to, and are content to have done SOME good by donating to the [big charity X]. While you'd hope the big charities improve their practices, in realistic terms, the onus is on the people who DO care about efficient donating to get the information out and convince people to contribute to what they perceive as better causes. In the case of charitable donations, that actually has happened, and you notice some shifts in the way people think about it. Could that happens for the post-ESL/Blizzard StarCraft II scene as well? Time will tell
Excellent post sir
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Northern Ireland25273 Posts
On July 16 2025 11:00 RogueTheGOAT wrote:
Honestly, what we need at this point is for someone to email Blizzard and ask if tournament organizers are allowed to pay themselves out of community raised funds, and if not, if RSL has written permission to do so.
If Blizzard says it is ok or they have permission, then the debate about whether people who are donating are being adequately informed as to where the money is going and whether the amount that seems to be going to RSL's pockets is acceptable.
If Blizzard says it is not ok and they do not have written permission, then obviously things get interesting.
I've thought about doing it, but I've been lazy.
And why do we need this exactly?
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On July 16 2025 11:00 RogueTheGOAT wrote:
Honestly, what we need at this point is for someone to email Blizzard and ask if tournament organizers are allowed to pay themselves out of community raised funds, and if not, if RSL has written permission to do so.
If Blizzard says it is ok or they have permission, then the debate about whether people who are donating are being adequately informed as to where the money is going and whether the amount that seems to be going to RSL's pockets is acceptable.
If Blizzard says it is not ok and they do not have written permission, then obviously things get interesting.
I've thought about doing it, but I've been lazy.
This argument needs to drop quickly. Are we really going to police the use of ANY crowdfunding going to organizers when the scene is going to be almost 100% grassroots from here on out? That doesn't sound right. Nor do I really appreciate the tattling to a father who doesn't love us anymore lol. Let's make sure Blizzard doesn't care about us AND strikes down any attempt by people to make somewhat of a living off of it.
To be clear, I have issues with the RSL split too. I think it was meant to replace GSL and so the studio was seen as a requirement, but I don't think shooting to replace something that was making no money makes sense. It also isn't that fun, or I should say, it's not what makes the product fun. The guys casting together is what is fun. Go back to SC2 roots, get a nicer setup in someone's apartment than the equivalent in 2010, and have at it.
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On July 16 2025 10:12 Waxangel wrote:To make a strained analogy (many such cases), you could consider how donations to charity work. A lot of people who have some extra change to donate are probably going to go with the biggest name charities that they've familiar with, even though a lot of them are inefficient and not as 'effective' as smaller charities. Not many people are going to do the research to find the 'best' cause for them to donate to, and are content to have done SOME good by donating to the [big charity X]. While you'd hope the big charities improve their practices, in realistic terms, the onus is on the people who DO care about efficient donating to get the information out and convince people to contribute to what they perceive as better causes. In the case of charitable donations, that actually has happened, and you notice some shifts in the way people think about it. Could that happens for the post-ESL/Blizzard StarCraft II scene as well? Time will tell
it’s also highly effective to publicly shame such charities
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United States33388 Posts
On July 16 2025 13:16 CHEONSOYUN wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2025 10:12 Waxangel wrote:To make a strained analogy (many such cases), you could consider how donations to charity work. A lot of people who have some extra change to donate are probably going to go with the biggest name charities that they've familiar with, even though a lot of them are inefficient and not as 'effective' as smaller charities. Not many people are going to do the research to find the 'best' cause for them to donate to, and are content to have done SOME good by donating to the [big charity X]. While you'd hope the big charities improve their practices, in realistic terms, the onus is on the people who DO care about efficient donating to get the information out and convince people to contribute to what they perceive as better causes. In the case of charitable donations, that actually has happened, and you notice some shifts in the way people think about it. Could that happens for the post-ESL/Blizzard StarCraft II scene as well? Time will tell it’s also highly effective to publicly shame such charities
people should express their opinions as they please (but with some minimum civility on TL.net )
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On July 16 2025 10:12 Waxangel wrote:
The budget/prize distribution was very clear from the start. Even accounting for the fact that people tend to skim over walls of text, I think it's pretty disingenuous to claim RSL was trying to trick people.
Only ever talking about the prize pool in Won while the funding in $ made it very unclear. Players that had accepted invites and community members supporting the patreon had no idea about the difference in prize vs donations even like one month later. Hard to say this isn't being done with the intention of keeping people in the dark about it as it's never been clarified a single time months later.
Edit: also of course you can pay yourself as part of the tournament cost from the crowdfunding - it is no difference to it being a part of the product cost if you hire other casters. You can put any number you want on it and it's a justified cost as far as Blizzard would care. Realistically nothing in the community tournament license is holding back anything from happening with RSL events and other events of this size.
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On July 16 2025 16:50 WardiTV wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2025 10:12 Waxangel wrote:
The budget/prize distribution was very clear from the start. Even accounting for the fact that people tend to skim over walls of text, I think it's pretty disingenuous to claim RSL was trying to trick people. Players that had accepted invites and community members supporting the patreon had no idea about the difference in prize vs donations even like one month later.
This makes it sound like there were people who thought that the prize pool was $10,000,000.
A fool and his money are easily parted.
EDIT:
I really don't see how it's possible to confuse ₩ and $ given the ~1000 fold difference between them.
If this was an intentional attempt to trick people then it was a poorly thought out attempt.
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On July 16 2025 20:41 MJG wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2025 16:50 WardiTV wrote:On July 16 2025 10:12 Waxangel wrote:
The budget/prize distribution was very clear from the start. Even accounting for the fact that people tend to skim over walls of text, I think it's pretty disingenuous to claim RSL was trying to trick people. Players that had accepted invites and community members supporting the patreon had no idea about the difference in prize vs donations even like one month later. This makes it sound like there were people who thought that the prize pool was $10,000,000. "A fool and his money are easily parted." EDIT: I really don't see how it's possible to confuse ₩ and $ given the ~1000 fold difference between them. If this was an intentional attempt to trick people then it was a poorly thought out attempt.
1000 won is worth about 0.7 dollar. So if you say " just divide by thousand" you are getting fooled.
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On July 16 2025 20:46 Harstem wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2025 20:41 MJG wrote:On July 16 2025 16:50 WardiTV wrote:On July 16 2025 10:12 Waxangel wrote:
The budget/prize distribution was very clear from the start. Even accounting for the fact that people tend to skim over walls of text, I think it's pretty disingenuous to claim RSL was trying to trick people. Players that had accepted invites and community members supporting the patreon had no idea about the difference in prize vs donations even like one month later. This makes it sound like there were people who thought that the prize pool was $10,000,000. "A fool and his money are easily parted." EDIT: I really don't see how it's possible to confuse ₩ and $ given the ~1000 fold difference between them. If this was an intentional attempt to trick people then it was a poorly thought out attempt. 1000 won is worth about 0.7 dollar. So if you say " just divide by thousand" you are getting fooled.
I'd feel really dumb if I hadn't used an approximation symbol...
... because I was too lazy to look up the actual exchange rate.
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On July 16 2025 20:41 MJG wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2025 16:50 WardiTV wrote:On July 16 2025 10:12 Waxangel wrote:
The budget/prize distribution was very clear from the start. Even accounting for the fact that people tend to skim over walls of text, I think it's pretty disingenuous to claim RSL was trying to trick people. Players that had accepted invites and community members supporting the patreon had no idea about the difference in prize vs donations even like one month later. This makes it sound like there were people who thought that the prize pool was $10,000,000. A fool and his money are easily parted. EDIT: I really don't see how it's possible to confuse ₩ and $ given the ~1000 fold difference between them. If this was an intentional attempt to trick people then it was a poorly thought out attempt.
It's not that people thought the prize pool was $10,000,000 lol. You are asking people to donate in $, and asking for $8k+ per month as your first goal. Presenting your prize money in a currency that people are not familiar with means that a lot of people don't do the math, they just assume it's going to be an impressive prize pool based on what you are asking for in the currency they do understand.
Considering the general approach of crowdfunding in SC2 I don't think it's crazy that people were just naturally expecting the prize pool of 2 tournaments over the next year to be more than the monthly crowdfunding is raising. I wouldn't call it a trick, but it's definitely a strategy that helps people look over one of the few negatives of the initial RSL announcement.
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On July 16 2025 22:16 WardiTV wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2025 20:41 MJG wrote:On July 16 2025 16:50 WardiTV wrote:On July 16 2025 10:12 Waxangel wrote:
The budget/prize distribution was very clear from the start. Even accounting for the fact that people tend to skim over walls of text, I think it's pretty disingenuous to claim RSL was trying to trick people. Players that had accepted invites and community members supporting the patreon had no idea about the difference in prize vs donations even like one month later. This makes it sound like there were people who thought that the prize pool was $10,000,000. A fool and his money are easily parted. EDIT: I really don't see how it's possible to confuse ₩ and $ given the ~1000 fold difference between them. If this was an intentional attempt to trick people then it was a poorly thought out attempt. It's not that people thought the prize pool was $10,000,000 lol. You are asking people to donate in $, and asking for $8k+ per month as your first goal. Presenting your prize money in a currency that people are not familiar with means that a lot of people don't do the math, they just assume it's going to be an impressive prize pool based on what you are asking for in the currency they do understand.
This is true.
Put the other way round, there is no obvious purpose of presenting the price pool in an unfamiliar currency different from that in which people donate except to conceal how much (or little) it is in actuality. It is not a common practice, still less for a tournament directed at an international audience where everything else is stated in English and in Dollars. It was a deliberate choice.
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On July 16 2025 22:16 WardiTV wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2025 20:41 MJG wrote:On July 16 2025 16:50 WardiTV wrote:On July 16 2025 10:12 Waxangel wrote:
The budget/prize distribution was very clear from the start. Even accounting for the fact that people tend to skim over walls of text, I think it's pretty disingenuous to claim RSL was trying to trick people. Players that had accepted invites and community members supporting the patreon had no idea about the difference in prize vs donations even like one month later. This makes it sound like there were people who thought that the prize pool was $10,000,000. A fool and his money are easily parted. EDIT: I really don't see how it's possible to confuse ₩ and $ given the ~1000 fold difference between them. If this was an intentional attempt to trick people then it was a poorly thought out attempt. It's not that people thought the prize pool was $10,000,000 lol. You are asking people to donate in $, and asking for $8k+ per month as your first goal. Presenting your prize money in a currency that people are not familiar with means that a lot of people don't do the math, they just assume it's going to be an impressive prize pool based on what you are asking for in the currency they do understand. Considering the general approach of crowdfunding in SC2 I don't think it's crazy that people were just naturally expecting the prize pool of 2 tournaments over the next year to be more than the monthly crowdfunding is raising. I wouldn't call it a trick, but it's definitely a strategy that helps people look over one of the few negatives of the initial RSL announcement.
For this to be an intentional strategy from RSL, they would've had to make the assumption that a large number of their target audience were too stupid and/or too lazy to perform a currency conversion.
That seems unrealistic to me.
EDIT:
On July 16 2025 22:56 Antithesis wrote:
Put the other way round, there is no obvious purpose of presenting the price pool in an unfamiliar currency different from that in which people donate except to conceal how much (or little) it is in actuality.
The obvious purpose is to emulate the GSL by having a prize pool in ₩.
I really don't think that RSL were intentionally trying to fool anyone.
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I feel that a compromise could be had here where prize pool is increased to at least 25% of the Patreon donation. Tripling the prize pool increases prestige, player and audience satisfaction while still maintaining a good amount for production cost/expansion.
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On July 16 2025 22:57 MJG wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2025 22:16 WardiTV wrote:On July 16 2025 20:41 MJG wrote:On July 16 2025 16:50 WardiTV wrote:On July 16 2025 10:12 Waxangel wrote:
The budget/prize distribution was very clear from the start. Even accounting for the fact that people tend to skim over walls of text, I think it's pretty disingenuous to claim RSL was trying to trick people. Players that had accepted invites and community members supporting the patreon had no idea about the difference in prize vs donations even like one month later. This makes it sound like there were people who thought that the prize pool was $10,000,000. A fool and his money are easily parted. EDIT: I really don't see how it's possible to confuse ₩ and $ given the ~1000 fold difference between them. If this was an intentional attempt to trick people then it was a poorly thought out attempt. It's not that people thought the prize pool was $10,000,000 lol. You are asking people to donate in $, and asking for $8k+ per month as your first goal. Presenting your prize money in a currency that people are not familiar with means that a lot of people don't do the math, they just assume it's going to be an impressive prize pool based on what you are asking for in the currency they do understand. Considering the general approach of crowdfunding in SC2 I don't think it's crazy that people were just naturally expecting the prize pool of 2 tournaments over the next year to be more than the monthly crowdfunding is raising. I wouldn't call it a trick, but it's definitely a strategy that helps people look over one of the few negatives of the initial RSL announcement. For this to be an intentional strategy from RSL, they would've had to make the assumption that a large number of their target audience were too stupid and/or too lazy to perform a currency conversion. That seems unrealistic to me. EDIT: Show nested quote +On July 16 2025 22:56 Antithesis wrote:
Put the other way round, there is no obvious purpose of presenting the price pool in an unfamiliar currency different from that in which people donate except to conceal how much (or little) it is in actuality. The obvious purpose is to emulate the GSL by having a prize pool in ₩. I really don't think that RSL were intentionally trying to fool anyone.
2000$ first place doesnt emulate GSL in any type of form, it might emulate Wardi Spring Championship
 WardiTV Spring Championship/2025
What emulations you found here? Name which sounds similar? Tasteless? Wow real GSL is back much wow
Core of GSL was prestige , huge prizemoney which for most years were over 100k$ for single event.
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I dont think most people would mind if RSL was a monthly event, so the money can just be given out in small amount but at high frequency. But people expect GSL-type of money when the organizer trying to set up the tournament that way, even the current "poorer" GSL still have 30k USD prizepool
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On July 17 2025 00:40 Optimus Prime2 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2025 22:57 MJG wrote:On July 16 2025 22:16 WardiTV wrote:On July 16 2025 20:41 MJG wrote:On July 16 2025 16:50 WardiTV wrote:On July 16 2025 10:12 Waxangel wrote:
The budget/prize distribution was very clear from the start. Even accounting for the fact that people tend to skim over walls of text, I think it's pretty disingenuous to claim RSL was trying to trick people. Players that had accepted invites and community members supporting the patreon had no idea about the difference in prize vs donations even like one month later. This makes it sound like there were people who thought that the prize pool was $10,000,000. A fool and his money are easily parted. EDIT: I really don't see how it's possible to confuse ₩ and $ given the ~1000 fold difference between them. If this was an intentional attempt to trick people then it was a poorly thought out attempt. It's not that people thought the prize pool was $10,000,000 lol. You are asking people to donate in $, and asking for $8k+ per month as your first goal. Presenting your prize money in a currency that people are not familiar with means that a lot of people don't do the math, they just assume it's going to be an impressive prize pool based on what you are asking for in the currency they do understand. Considering the general approach of crowdfunding in SC2 I don't think it's crazy that people were just naturally expecting the prize pool of 2 tournaments over the next year to be more than the monthly crowdfunding is raising. I wouldn't call it a trick, but it's definitely a strategy that helps people look over one of the few negatives of the initial RSL announcement. For this to be an intentional strategy from RSL, they would've had to make the assumption that a large number of their target audience were too stupid and/or too lazy to perform a currency conversion. That seems unrealistic to me. EDIT: On July 16 2025 22:56 Antithesis wrote:
Put the other way round, there is no obvious purpose of presenting the price pool in an unfamiliar currency different from that in which people donate except to conceal how much (or little) it is in actuality. The obvious purpose is to emulate the GSL by having a prize pool in ₩. I really don't think that RSL were intentionally trying to fool anyone. 2000$ first place doesnt emulate GSL in any type of form, it might emulate Wardi Spring Championship WardiTV Spring Championship/2025What emulations you found here? Name which sounds similar? Tasteless? Wow real GSL is back much wow Core of GSL was prestige , huge prizemoney which for most years were over 100k$ for single event.
Perhaps the fact that we don't have that anymore is evidence of the fact that those prize payouts are no longer financially viable, if they ever were in the first place?
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someone from twitch chat recommended I come here to see what the fuss is about?
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On July 16 2025 12:00 ZombieGrub wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2025 11:00 RogueTheGOAT wrote:
Honestly, what we need at this point is for someone to email Blizzard and ask if tournament organizers are allowed to pay themselves out of community raised funds, and if not, if RSL has written permission to do so.
If Blizzard says it is ok or they have permission, then the debate about whether people who are donating are being adequately informed as to where the money is going and whether the amount that seems to be going to RSL's pockets is acceptable.
If Blizzard says it is not ok and they do not have written permission, then obviously things get interesting.
I've thought about doing it, but I've been lazy.
This argument needs to drop quickly. Are we really going to police the use of ANY crowdfunding going to organizers when the scene is going to be almost 100% grassroots from here on out? That doesn't sound right. Nor do I really appreciate the tattling to a father who doesn't love us anymore lol. Let's make sure Blizzard doesn't care about us AND strikes down any attempt by people to make somewhat of a living off of it. To be clear, I have issues with the RSL split too. I think it was meant to replace GSL and so the studio was seen as a requirement, but I don't think shooting to replace something that was making no money makes sense. It also isn't that fun, or I should say, it's not what makes the product fun. The guys casting together is what is fun. Go back to SC2 roots, get a nicer setup in someone's apartment than the equivalent in 2010, and have at it.
This!
If you follow other e-sports, you know SC2 is lucky to be able to organize community-run events without a ton of red tape. Ask the Smash community how their community tourneys have gone...
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On July 17 2025 00:40 Optimus Prime2 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2025 22:57 MJG wrote:On July 16 2025 22:16 WardiTV wrote:On July 16 2025 20:41 MJG wrote:On July 16 2025 16:50 WardiTV wrote:On July 16 2025 10:12 Waxangel wrote:
The budget/prize distribution was very clear from the start. Even accounting for the fact that people tend to skim over walls of text, I think it's pretty disingenuous to claim RSL was trying to trick people. Players that had accepted invites and community members supporting the patreon had no idea about the difference in prize vs donations even like one month later. This makes it sound like there were people who thought that the prize pool was $10,000,000. A fool and his money are easily parted. EDIT: I really don't see how it's possible to confuse ₩ and $ given the ~1000 fold difference between them. If this was an intentional attempt to trick people then it was a poorly thought out attempt. It's not that people thought the prize pool was $10,000,000 lol. You are asking people to donate in $, and asking for $8k+ per month as your first goal. Presenting your prize money in a currency that people are not familiar with means that a lot of people don't do the math, they just assume it's going to be an impressive prize pool based on what you are asking for in the currency they do understand. Considering the general approach of crowdfunding in SC2 I don't think it's crazy that people were just naturally expecting the prize pool of 2 tournaments over the next year to be more than the monthly crowdfunding is raising. I wouldn't call it a trick, but it's definitely a strategy that helps people look over one of the few negatives of the initial RSL announcement. For this to be an intentional strategy from RSL, they would've had to make the assumption that a large number of their target audience were too stupid and/or too lazy to perform a currency conversion. That seems unrealistic to me. EDIT: On July 16 2025 22:56 Antithesis wrote:
Put the other way round, there is no obvious purpose of presenting the price pool in an unfamiliar currency different from that in which people donate except to conceal how much (or little) it is in actuality. The obvious purpose is to emulate the GSL by having a prize pool in ₩. I really don't think that RSL were intentionally trying to fool anyone. 2000$ first place doesnt emulate GSL in any type of form, it might emulate Wardi Spring Championship WardiTV Spring Championship/2025What emulations you found here? Name which sounds similar? Tasteless? Wow real GSL is back much wow Core of GSL was prestige , huge prizemoney which for most years were over 100k$ for single event.
My comment on emulating GSL was limited to displaying the prize pool in the same currency.
I made no comment on anything else you've mentioned.
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so the organizers are making more than the tournament winners? interesting split
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In their defense, you can't calculate yearly from a monthly Patreon alone. For example April had 13k/ month and then they announce "wohoo we'll make big tournaments with big prices" and then by August Patreon had dropped to say 6k/ month and they promised way too much and can't do it. Maybe they just need to build a buffer first.
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On July 17 2025 15:03 MJG wrote:
My comment on emulating GSL was limited to displaying the prize pool in the same currency.
I made no comment on anything else you've mentioned.
Your comment makes no sense, as well as idea you trying to bring, emulating prizepool doesnt benefit tournament in any type of form. Only reason i have for you to say this, is you are huge tasteless fanboy, nothing else fits here.
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Northern Ireland25273 Posts
On July 17 2025 22:11 Optimus Prime2 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2025 15:03 MJG wrote:
My comment on emulating GSL was limited to displaying the prize pool in the same currency.
I made no comment on anything else you've mentioned. Your comment makes no sense, as well as idea you trying to bring, emulating prizepool doesnt benefit tournament in any type of form. Only reason i have for you to say this, is you are huge tasteless fanboy, nothing else fits here.
Have you tried not being abrasive and actually engaging with what people have said in the thread? Would recommend
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On July 17 2025 22:39 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2025 22:11 Optimus Prime2 wrote:On July 17 2025 15:03 MJG wrote:
My comment on emulating GSL was limited to displaying the prize pool in the same currency.
I made no comment on anything else you've mentioned. Your comment makes no sense, as well as idea you trying to bring, emulating prizepool doesnt benefit tournament in any type of form. Only reason i have for you to say this, is you are huge tasteless fanboy, nothing else fits here. Have you tried not being abrasive and actually engaging with what people have said in the thread? Would recommend
But he is the righteous paladin of the righteousness, who is primed to bring righteousness to the less righteous who lack righteousness.
...aaaaand he speculated* about the reason Serral did drop out of RSL and has brought light** accusations into the public that leave room for speculation***
*completly made up
**mostly unproven accusations, even though the topic warrants discussion
***a complete and utter anti-Tasteless bias
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On July 17 2025 22:11 Optimus Prime2 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2025 15:03 MJG wrote:
My comment on emulating GSL was limited to displaying the prize pool in the same currency.
I made no comment on anything else you've mentioned. Your comment makes no sense, as well as idea you trying to bring, emulating prizepool doesnt benefit tournament in any type of form. Only reason i have for you to say this, is you are huge tasteless fanboy, nothing else fits here.
So this is what has happened:
- Wardi posted that RSL were "keeping people in the dark" about the prize pool by using ₩ instead of $.
- I responded that I believe it's more likely that RSL were simply copying GSL by using ₩ instead of $.
- You responded with a completely unrelated set of comments about the names of the tournaments sounding similar, Tasteless being involved, the prestige of the tournaments, and the amount of prize money involved.
- I responded that none of those were things that I was discussing.
- Somehow I'm the one who doesn't make sense, and I'm a Tasteless fanboy because of it.
Can someone who wasn't banned once already in this thread explain to me what I've missed?
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On July 17 2025 23:03 MJG wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2025 22:11 Optimus Prime2 wrote:On July 17 2025 15:03 MJG wrote:
My comment on emulating GSL was limited to displaying the prize pool in the same currency.
I made no comment on anything else you've mentioned. Your comment makes no sense, as well as idea you trying to bring, emulating prizepool doesnt benefit tournament in any type of form. Only reason i have for you to say this, is you are huge tasteless fanboy, nothing else fits here. So this is what has happened: - Wardi posted that RSL were "keeping people in the dark" about the prize pool by using ₩ instead of $.
- I responded that I believe it's more likely that RSL were simply copying GSL by using ₩ instead of $.
- You responded with a completely unrelated set of comments about the names of the tournaments sounding similar, Tasteless being involved, the prestige of the tournaments, and the amount of prize money involved.
- I responded that none of those were things that I was discussing.
- Somehow I'm the one who doesn't make sense, and I'm a Tasteless fanboy because of it.
Can someone who wasn't banned once already in this thread explain to me what I've missed?
the only thing you're missing is that the righteous paladin of the righteousness didn't and doesn't wanna hear what you're saying. Don't worry, I know this. I also am in the habit of doing this when my grumpy 'n stupid mode is active
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On July 17 2025 23:03 MJG wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2025 22:11 Optimus Prime2 wrote:On July 17 2025 15:03 MJG wrote:
My comment on emulating GSL was limited to displaying the prize pool in the same currency.
I made no comment on anything else you've mentioned. Your comment makes no sense, as well as idea you trying to bring, emulating prizepool doesnt benefit tournament in any type of form. Only reason i have for you to say this, is you are huge tasteless fanboy, nothing else fits here. So this is what has happened: - Wardi posted that RSL were "keeping people in the dark" about the prize pool by using ₩ instead of $.
- I responded that I believe it's more likely that RSL were simply copying GSL by using ₩ instead of $.
- You responded with a completely unrelated set of comments about the names of the tournaments sounding similar, Tasteless being involved, the prestige of the tournaments, and the amount of prize money involved.
- I responded that none of those were things that I was discussing.
- Somehow I'm the one who doesn't make sense, and I'm a Tasteless fanboy because of it.
Can someone who wasn't banned once already in this thread explain to me what I've missed?
What you missing , that it just was a trick by organizers, and Wardi just trying to stay polite with words like "keeping in the dark" , but obviously thats was a trick for donators.
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Northern Ireland25273 Posts
On July 18 2025 00:59 Optimus Prime2 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2025 23:03 MJG wrote:On July 17 2025 22:11 Optimus Prime2 wrote:On July 17 2025 15:03 MJG wrote:
My comment on emulating GSL was limited to displaying the prize pool in the same currency.
I made no comment on anything else you've mentioned. Your comment makes no sense, as well as idea you trying to bring, emulating prizepool doesnt benefit tournament in any type of form. Only reason i have for you to say this, is you are huge tasteless fanboy, nothing else fits here. So this is what has happened: - Wardi posted that RSL were "keeping people in the dark" about the prize pool by using ₩ instead of $.
- I responded that I believe it's more likely that RSL were simply copying GSL by using ₩ instead of $.
- You responded with a completely unrelated set of comments about the names of the tournaments sounding similar, Tasteless being involved, the prestige of the tournaments, and the amount of prize money involved.
- I responded that none of those were things that I was discussing.
- Somehow I'm the one who doesn't make sense, and I'm a Tasteless fanboy because of it.
Can someone who wasn't banned once already in this thread explain to me what I've missed? What you missing , that it just was a trick by organizers, and Wardi just trying to stay polite with words like "keeping in the dark" , but obviously thats was a trick for donators.
Is it a trick if the organisers go ‘here’s what we want to do, donate if you want?’
Some Patreons may be donating for the good of the wider scene, it’s worth noting that I’m sure a good chunk are literally just donating because they want to have Tasteless cast some more.
You might not like that and want people to fund players more, but perhaps you need to get over it a bit.
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On July 18 2025 00:59 Optimus Prime2 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2025 23:03 MJG wrote:On July 17 2025 22:11 Optimus Prime2 wrote:On July 17 2025 15:03 MJG wrote:
My comment on emulating GSL was limited to displaying the prize pool in the same currency.
I made no comment on anything else you've mentioned. Your comment makes no sense, as well as idea you trying to bring, emulating prizepool doesnt benefit tournament in any type of form. Only reason i have for you to say this, is you are huge tasteless fanboy, nothing else fits here. So this is what has happened: - Wardi posted that RSL were "keeping people in the dark" about the prize pool by using ₩ instead of $.
- I responded that I believe it's more likely that RSL were simply copying GSL by using ₩ instead of $.
- You responded with a completely unrelated set of comments about the names of the tournaments sounding similar, Tasteless being involved, the prestige of the tournaments, and the amount of prize money involved.
- I responded that none of those were things that I was discussing.
- Somehow I'm the one who doesn't make sense, and I'm a Tasteless fanboy because of it.
Can someone who wasn't banned once already in this thread explain to me what I've missed? What you missing , that it just was a trick by organizers, and Wardi just trying to stay polite with words like "keeping in the dark" , but obviously thats was a trick for donators.
I already gave my opinion on that...
On July 16 2025 22:57 MJG wrote:
For this to be an intentional strategy from RSL, they would've had to make the assumption that a large number of their target audience were too stupid and/or too lazy to perform a currency conversion.
That seems unrealistic to me.
... but you're welcome to disagree because there's no way of truly knowing their intent.
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On July 18 2025 00:59 Optimus Prime2 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2025 23:03 MJG wrote:On July 17 2025 22:11 Optimus Prime2 wrote:On July 17 2025 15:03 MJG wrote:
My comment on emulating GSL was limited to displaying the prize pool in the same currency.
I made no comment on anything else you've mentioned. Your comment makes no sense, as well as idea you trying to bring, emulating prizepool doesnt benefit tournament in any type of form. Only reason i have for you to say this, is you are huge tasteless fanboy, nothing else fits here. So this is what has happened: - Wardi posted that RSL were "keeping people in the dark" about the prize pool by using ₩ instead of $.
- I responded that I believe it's more likely that RSL were simply copying GSL by using ₩ instead of $.
- You responded with a completely unrelated set of comments about the names of the tournaments sounding similar, Tasteless being involved, the prestige of the tournaments, and the amount of prize money involved.
- I responded that none of those were things that I was discussing.
- Somehow I'm the one who doesn't make sense, and I'm a Tasteless fanboy because of it.
Can someone who wasn't banned once already in this thread explain to me what I've missed? What you missing , that it just was a trick by organizers, and Wardi just trying to stay polite with words like "keeping in the dark" , but obviously thats was a trick for donators.
Stop derailing your own thread my man! :-D
No need to be an asshat just because you think you are smarter then the rest of us.
We discussed fairly civil the core issues that can be discussed regarding the topic until you showed up again!
In general we discussed so much of it that I feel the only ones that could add some value would be the RSL-Guys themselves, but I guess that will not happen...
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This is why we can't have nice things.
For starters, I am a perfectly satisfied donator at the stalker tier.
The reason I am perfectly satisfied is that it is perfectly transparent from the Patreon what I donated to and what I would get in return - not that I had to donate. It was made clear right from the start that an event similar to the one that just ended would be hosted regardless of what donation target was reached.
Which makes the claim that nothing was "given back to the community" utter nonsense in my book. The community got a free-to-watch event and, based on reading this thread, that is a whole lot more than it deserves. I can only hope that the organizers will pay more attention to all the positive feedback than the conspiratorial drivel posted in this thread.
As an aside on that point - how exactly does putting a larger lump sum into the pocket of whoever would have won this event constitute "developing the community"? I could understand your point if you suggested that part of the proceeds went to some bootcamp for young masters and GM players or something like that, but simply further lining the pockets of already well-compensated players is hardly the sort of grassroots development you are insinuating - which is in no way me implying that I begrudge these players their earnings, I am happy for them to earn as much as is financially sustainable for this sport, which is important to say and for you to read, because it needs to be in mind for my next point:
The prize pool isn't all that important to me, personally. What matters to me is that it is large enough for the best players to take the tournament seriously and deliver their A-game. If that is achieved at 25 cents, fine. If it takes 100,000$, well, the communtiy had better start donating rather than pontificating on the internet, because once the EWC gravy train runs out, no tournament is going to deliver that.
In that regard, please bear in mind that this tournament was conceived when the assumption was that there would be no EWC, meaning that the 7,250$ prize pool can only be reasonably compared to the 10,000$ prize pools we had at Stara Zagora and HSC 27. So roughly 25% less than the highest tier tournaments we could expect at the time, based on a 36,000$ donation budget. Scandalous.
On that 36,000$ question... How on earth have we gotten to page 6 in this thread before anyone points out how OP's math is completely asinine? He apparently argues that the organizers should start handing out shares of the projected yearly donations after a mere 3 months of collecting. I'm glad he's not my accountant.
Please also bear in mind that the Patreon is 3,000$ short of the prize pool tripling, so if you want to see larger prize pools, there is an obvious way to bring that about.
Not that the prize pool is what matters to me, what I wanted was a studio hosted, multi-casted event. As it happens, I did do what some people in this thead have suggested, and I asked around in the community where I could donate to bring that about. One of the first things people told me is that for that to happen, we would require donations in the range of hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not millions, before we even started talking about prize pools. Tasteless et al. have gotten there after 36.000$, so if they are scamming anyone, it seems to be mainly themselves.
Which brings me to my next point, which is that this is absolutely not a zero-sum game. The organizers here are in no way taking money that would have otherwise gone to some other parts of the SC2 ecosystem. I am perfectly capable of donating the same amount to someone else willing to credibly offer something similar.
I hate to see mom and dad fighting, so for ZG, Wardi and Harstem to chime in with snarky, unhelpful and, frankly. conspiratorial remarks saddens me a great deal. I love the work you people do, and if you went about hosting something similar to this, I can absolutely guarantee you that I would donate the exact same amount. Double that if you brought back the Casters Civil War. Until then, please stop making nonsensical insinuations, such as that they posted the prize money in Won to lure in gullible donators.
I think the fact that Tasteless et al. have raised an amount large enough to inspire this kind of passion should actually be a wake-up call for all of us. I don't see why the community has to tear itself apart in sour grapes infighting over it - Money can apparently be raised, heall yeah, let's get to organizing some tournaments. We don't need the ESL, but we should have something similar to the Pro Tour back. A consolidated scene, where we can compare results across different tournaments at the highest level. Rather than fighting over these breadcrumbs, I would love to see the likes of ZG, Wardi or Harstem join in on the casting of these events, or hold their own. Perhaps we can defer some proceeds from the various events into a season finale, and have our own, community-driven world championship.
TLDR: Rather than complain, host your own tournaments. I would love to see them.
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+ Show Spoiler +On July 18 2025 03:40 Admiral Yang wrote:
This is why we can't have nice things.
For starters, I am a perfectly satisfied donator at the stalker tier.
The reason I am perfectly satisfied is that it is perfectly transparent from the Patreon what I donated to and what I would get in return - not that I had to donate. It was made clear right from the start that an event similar to the one that just ended would be hosted regardless of what donation target was reached.
Which makes the claim that nothing was "given back to the community" utter nonsense in my book. The community got a free-to-watch event and, based on reading this thread, that is a whole lot more than it deserves. I can only hope that the organizers will pay more attention to all the positive feedback than the conspiratorial drivel posted in this thread.
As an aside on that point - how exactly does putting a larger lump sum into the pocket of whoever would have won this event constitute "developing the community"? I could understand your point if you suggested that part of the proceeds went to some bootcamp for young masters and GM players or something like that, but simply further lining the pockets of already well-compensated players is hardly the sort of grassroots development you are insinuating - which is in no way me implying that I begrudge these players their earnings, I am happy for them to earn as much as is financially sustainable for this sport, which is important to say and for you to read, because it needs to be in mind for my next point:
The prize pool isn't all that important to me, personally. What matters to me is that it is large enough for the best players to take the tournament seriously and deliver their A-game. If that is achieved at 25 cents, fine. If it takes 100,000$, well, the communtiy had better start donating rather than pontificating on the internet, because once the EWC gravy train runs out, no tournament is going to deliver that.
In that regard, please bear in mind that this tournament was conceived when the assumption was that there would be no EWC, meaning that the 7,250$ prize pool can only be reasonably compared to the 10,000$ prize pools we had at Stara Zagora and HSC 27. So roughly 25% less than the highest tier tournaments we could expect at the time, based on a 36,000$ donation budget. Scandalous.
On that 36,000$ question... How on earth have we gotten to page 6 in this thread before anyone points out how OP's math is completely asinine? He apparently argues that the organizers should start handing out shares of the projected yearly donations after a mere 3 months of collecting. I'm glad he's not my accountant.
Please also bear in mind that the Patreon is 3,000$ short of the prize pool tripling, so if you want to see larger prize pools, there is an obvious way to bring that about.
Not that the prize pool is what matters to me, what I wanted was a studio hosted, multi-casted event. As it happens, I did do what some people in this thead have suggested, and I asked around in the community where I could donate to bring that about. One of the first things people told me is that for that to happen, we would require donations in the range of hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not millions, before we even started talking about prize pools. Tasteless et al. have gotten there after 36.000$, so if they are scamming anyone, it seems to be mainly themselves.
Which brings me to my next point, which is that this is absolutely not a zero-sum game. The organizers here are in no way taking money that would have otherwise gone to some other parts of the SC2 ecosystem. I am perfectly capable of donating the same amount to someone else willing to credibly offer something similar.
I hate to see mom and dad fighting, so for ZG, Wardi and Harstem to chime in with snarky, unhelpful and, frankly. conspiratorial remarks saddens me a great deal. I love the work you people do, and if you went about hosting something similar to this, I can absolutely guarantee you that I would donate the exact same amount. Double that if you brought back the Casters Civil War. Until then, please stop making nonsensical insinuations, such as that they posted the prize money in Won to lure in gullible donators.
I think the fact that Tasteless et al. have raised an amount large enough to inspire this kind of passion should actually be a wake-up call for all of us. I don't see why the community has to tear itself apart in sour grapes infighting over it - Money can apparently be raised, heall yeah, let's get to organizing some tournaments. We don't need the ESL, but we should have something similar to the Pro Tour back. A consolidated scene, where we can compare results across different tournaments at the highest level. Rather than fighting over these breadcrumbs, I would love to see the likes of ZG, Wardi or Harstem join in on the casting of these events, or hold their own. Perhaps we can defer some proceeds from the various events into a season finale, and have our own, community-driven world championship.
TLDR: Rather than complain, host your own tournaments. I would love to see them.
"I hate to see mom and dad fighting, so for ZG, Wardi and Harstem to chime in with snarky, unhelpful and, frankly. conspiratorial remarks saddens me a great deal. I love the work you people do, and if you went about hosting something similar to this, I can absolutely guarantee you that I would donate the exact same amount."
wtf how was I being snarky, unhelpful, and conspiratorial? I think a studio is unnecessary in our new phase as an e-sport, and I think a casual atmosphere is what made SC2 what it was casting-wise to begin with. I don't see how that accounts for any of your accusations lol.
I don't want this to turn into mud-slinging between posters. I do think telling Wardi to host his own tournaments rather than complaining is interesting though - do you not think it is more interesting that Wardi, who has done so many of his own tournaments and split his prize pools in the way he does, may take issue with how RSL is proceeding? Telling Wardi to host his own tournaments rather than complain is a bit odd since he very obviously does his own tournaments. All the time. With crowdfunding that is very public.
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This should be the end of the video right sal?
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The question is whether the prize pool and the quality of the product are commensurate with the amount of money being donated. Are they or not? I'm just a casual fan now wondering whether this is another good source of drama like Stormgate. I stopped watching after the first few days due to the production quality issues, but the finals look vastly better.
So, why specifically is the prize pool for the year less than one month of donations? Is the organizers' appetite for risk such that they need donations to remain this high for longer before the prize pool is more substantial? Are the graphics, studio, and other production factors they chose that expensive? Are the people involved investing that much of their time, and is their time that valuable? These aren't rhetorical questions; a "yes" answer could be true, but no one seems to have made the case yet. And again: is the result worth the money? It's up to the donors to decide, but scrutinizing, discussing, and even "complaining" are perfectly reasonable, even responsible, things to do.
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"wtf how was I being snarky, unhelpful, and conspiratorial? I think a studio is unnecessary in our new phase as an e-sport, and I think a casual atmosphere is what made SC2 what it was casting-wise to begin with. I don't see how that accounts for any of your accusations lol."
Fair. I painted unreasonably broad strokes there and recognize that you weren't party to the currency insinuations. Regarding the studio/home discussion, I would very much be interested in what a tournament like that would look like.
Regarding the Wardii issue. I certainly recognize and respect the massive effort the man puts in. If that wasn't apparent in my post, I can only apologize.
"So, why specifically is the prize pool for the year less than one month of donations?"
It is obviously entirely up to you if you want to speculate on these issues, but I don't think the conspiratorial insinuations helps anyone. Framing matters here, of course. At present, 36,000$ has been raised. Roughly 7,000$ has been redistrubted as prize money. The remaining 29,000$ has presumably paid salaries for casters and organizers on top of rented studios, scouted a new studio, and paid for production, on top of creating a buffer for season 2. Given what I understand to be the general costs of media production nowadays, that really doesn't seem like a controversial number.
But, as you say, that is really up to the donors to decide, isn't it? And those numbers were there from the start.
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RSL creators be like
User was warned for this post
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there’s no issue with their patreon or tournament series as long as no one is under illusions about who it is for:
it’s for the casters living in korea, not the players.
tasteless and artosis already have $11,000/per month doing ASL which is essentially just a dub-over the ASL broadcast and ASL only runs half of the year.
https://x.com/CallMeTasteless/status/1226094758860226560
tasteless and artosis are notoriously two of the most expensive casters, even after changing their tune about which game they prefer between SC1 and SC2 when GSL started declining heavily and they were no longer in studio.
don’t think it’s a surprise that people have doubts about how the money is being allocated.
if the patreon was SC2-english casts no one would be batting an eye at the moment
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i love ya'll though, more sc2 is good for everyone <3
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"tasteless and artosis already have $11,000/per month doing ASL which is essentially just a dub-over the ASL broadcast and ASL only runs half of the year."
Not necessarily doubting you, but what is the source on this number?
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On July 18 2025 07:54 Admiral Yang wrote:
"tasteless and artosis already have $11,000/per month doing ASL which is essentially just a dub-over the ASL broadcast and ASL only runs half of the year."
Not necessarily doubting you, but what is the source on this number?
https://www.patreon.com/ASLenglish
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On July 18 2025 07:42 CHEONSOYUN wrote:there’s no issue with their patreon or tournament series as long as no one is under illusions about who it is for: it’s for the casters living in korea, not the players. tasteless and artosis already have $11,000/per month doing ASL which is essentially just a dub-over the ASL broadcast and ASL only runs half of the year. https://x.com/CallMeTasteless/status/1226094758860226560tasteless and artosis are notoriously two of the most expensive casters, even after changing their tune about which game they prefer between SC1 and SC2 when GSL started declining heavily and they were no longer in studio. don’t think it’s a surprise that people have doubts about how the money is being allocated. if the patreon was SC2-english casts no one would be batting an eye at the moment
While I can understand your point, just three inputs on this:
1)You can't really control how much your Patreon makes. And this is specifically ASLEnglish...considering some of the BW-fans on here, I could see how they would be very angry if some of this money would be relocated for SC2.
2)If I recall correctly, Ziggy is also in on the mix, doing all the translations for the interviews etc. So you are splitting your money in three here per months and I assume Patreon also takes a certain cut. "11k per month" sounds great, but it is at best somewhere in the vicinity of 3.6k per person. Still good money, but you also have to consider that this is not a guaranteed salary
3)ASL only running for half a year is not really an issue here. For one, you can just cancel your subscription for those months if you feel like it. Plus it ensures that they can commit to it. If your job would only pay you half the year and expects you to finance yourself for the other half through some other means...you might want to switch to a different job that pays you for the entire year
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Northern Ireland25273 Posts
I’ll also add that State, Gemini, that British bloke who I never encountered before and whose name I forget (but enjoyed his casting!), plus Reynor as a guest all casted.
It was rotated quite a bit. If it’s some money-spinner, why hire additional talent to split that more?
Given how much Tastosis get for delayed ASL casts, if they wanted to maximise returns from this endeavour they could also easily just committed to a bedroom cast setup and probably have pulled in a much better profit margin.
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[quote][QUOTE]On July 18 2025 07:11 Admiral Yang wrote:
Fair. I painted unreasonably broad strokes there and recognize that you weren't party to the currency insinuations. Regarding the studio/home discussion, I would very much be interested in what a tournament like that would look like.[/quote]
If you are referring to home studio setups - PiG, Wardi and others are operating exactly in that mode for many years now.
As ZG pointed out, it is part of our "scene" in SC2 from the beginning and I feel it as potential to live on for a long time.
What I really miss is Proleague with teams in Studio Setup I can root for...but that for example is really difficult to impossible to pull off nowadays...
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On July 18 2025 07:11 Admiral Yang wrote:
At present, 36,000$ has been raised. Roughly 7,000$ has been redistrubted as prize money. The remaining 29,000$ has presumably paid salaries for casters and organizers on top of rented studios, scouted a new studio, and paid for production, on top of creating a buffer for season 2. Given what I understand to be the general costs of media production nowadays, that really doesn't seem like a controversial number.
Just to keep us on track - the prize pool was only $7,000 because of a sponsor which doubled the prize pool. You could probably cover the prize pool RSL put in directly from the revenue they made from ads/streeaming in general, so pretty much 100% of patreon should be going into production/other costs.
I'm not going to play the guessing game, but the reason people are not happy is because what is not being put into the production & prize pool is a controversial number compared to what it is - which is a community funded tournament. The product they have put out is not equivelant to the money they are spending. The tournament was great, but it was not $30,000 greater than other tournaments of similar/larger prize pools.
SC2 is in a weird place, it's understandable players and community members are concerned about how communtiy funded money is being used. Personal opinion, if they scrapped the studio and all these other costs and put together a big prize money league, they could dominate the SC2 tournament scene with an awesome tournament series that all players take seriously and want to be a part of and it would be infinitely better for their goal of "saving StarCraft 2" than what is currently being done.
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"Personal opinion, if they scrapped the studio and all these other costs and put together a big prize money league, they could dominate the SC2 tournament scene with an awesome tournament series that all players take seriously and want to be a part of and it would be infinitely better for their goal of "saving StarCraft 2" than what is currently being done."
Like I said, to me, that is in no way a zero-sum game. If you or anyone else with clout and credibility wants to do this, feel free to scam me all the same.
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On July 18 2025 17:24 Admiral Yang wrote:
"Personal opinion, if they scrapped the studio and all these other costs and put together a big prize money league, they could dominate the SC2 tournament scene with an awesome tournament series that all players take seriously and want to be a part of and it would be infinitely better for their goal of "saving StarCraft 2" than what is currently being done."
Like I said, to me, that is in no way a zero-sum game. If you or anyone else with clout and credibility wants to do this, feel free to scam me all the same.
Pardon me for butting in but I think there is a potential dilemma with what you are proposing. It's a circular logic type thing, or a chicken and egg type thing, something like that. Here is my admittedly cynical POV:
1. In order to have a big tournament with big prize money, one needs to galvanize the masses.
2. The masses will not be galvanized if you or I, literal nobodies in SC2, hosted said tournament. We wouldn't get the funding. We'd have to work for free to get a sliver of the support from the community at large, not just the egalitarian faithful like you.
3. Because nobodies can't do this on this level, the established personalities are in a more powerful, exclusive position. Even if we assume that you or I are capable of producing a tournament with the same quality games, organization, etc. - which is a pretty big assumption given that top players probably wouldn't join the Jealous Yang StarLeague because again, we are nobodies - we wouldn't be able to raise the same capital, whereas they can. Look at the OP of this thread; I wouldn't expect him to negotiate himself into a free open air concert at the local rec center with no security, much less an advertising deal or a venue slot. The majority of the SC2 audience isn't as hampered, but they sure are equally powerless and for the most part unmotivated to do anything like this on their own. And who can blame them? Reality is a tough wall to scale.
4. Because the personalities are performing a task that seemingly only they - with decades of experience and clout - can do, they expect to be compensated for their labor, much like they had been during the golden years.
5. As such, they will require overhead fees that rival or even dwarf the prize pool.
6. And there isn't really a way for anyone new to break into the scene without either upfront capital of their own or without putting in dozens of hours of unpaid work.
So, im summary: in order to run an event of this magnitude you need to be a well-known figure, and this game is 10 years too old for new well-known figures to emerge, meaning that everyone else has the binary option of "support" or "don't support," there is no realistic third option of "fuck that Imma do it my way."
While certain individuals are clearly fixated on the absolute dollars and cents, I think what other people may be lamenting (without even realizing it) is that besides the dollar figure going into organizers' pockets, the fact remains that there isn't really an alternative to this approach. It's not as easy as "just host your own tournament bro." As someone who has done just that, with far less funding, zero profit, countless uncompensated hours spent, I know what that's like (though I wouldn't go back and undo any of it, tbf). Side note, related to my previous post: if I could've been paid several thousand dollars for it, I absolutely would have taken that money, too.
That's the dilemma, the fault in your logic, IMO: realistically, only they (and others rivaling their position) can do it, and they will only do it for money up front in their pockets. And that makes some people mad because many people will feel some type of way when confronting their own helplessness in a situation. RSL/Tasteless can just wait a week or two and all of this will die down. They don't have to address any of it.
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"Just host your own tournament, bro" (to the extent that I said that) was directed at the people who do have that namebrand-recognition you're talking about.
Others will have to put in the work and the money upfront if they want to get there. That's life.
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startup costs are gonna take a big bite out of the funding. I expect the prize pool to be increased next season of course
I am also fine with Tasteless taking a decent salary because he's an entertaining caster and I want him to continue doing sc2
On July 18 2025 17:06 WardiTV wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2025 07:11 Admiral Yang wrote:
At present, 36,000$ has been raised. Roughly 7,000$ has been redistrubted as prize money. The remaining 29,000$ has presumably paid salaries for casters and organizers on top of rented studios, scouted a new studio, and paid for production, on top of creating a buffer for season 2. Given what I understand to be the general costs of media production nowadays, that really doesn't seem like a controversial number. I'm not going to play the guessing game, but the reason people are not happy is because what is not being put into the production & prize pool is a controversial number compared to what it is - which is a community funded tournament. The product they have put out is not equivelant to the money they are spending. The tournament was great, but it was not $30,000 greater than other tournaments of similar/larger prize pools. SC2 is in a weird place, it's understandable players and community members are concerned about how communtiy funded money is being used. Personal opinion, if they scrapped the studio and all these other costs and put together a big prize money league, they could dominate the SC2 tournament scene with an awesome tournament series that all players take seriously and want to be a part of and it would be infinitely better for their goal of "saving StarCraft 2" than what is currently being done.
the product that Tasteless has created does not have an equivalent (except for GSL). no other tournament organizer is trying to grow Korean sc2 in Korea
"just scrap the studio" - why? so that RSL can become another WardiTV? that's not the level of ambition that gets me excited about the future of sc2.
the whole point of RSL is to bring back the good ol' days of sc2. here's what the good ol' days look like:
![[image loading]](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/k2tKZBFBskw/maxresdefault.jpg)
two dudes behind a desk casting sc2, players in booths, a big screen behind them, and a live audience. the whole point of RSL is to bring at least some of that back. step 1: live cast in a dedicated studio in Korea. step 2: an offline final in Seoul where fans can show up and watch. these are the goal that TastelessTV set out at launch, so I don't understand why anyone would be surprised when a large chunk of funding is put towards that goal.
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On July 18 2025 18:34 SHODAN wrote:
"just scrap the studio" - why? so that RSL can become another WardiTV? that's not the level of ambition that gets me excited about the future of sc2.
If you put $11k/month into a tournament series it’s going to be a lot better than anything I can run and a lot more prestigious.
It was just my opinion as to what you could do to actually help SC2. An ambitious tournament series does a lot more good for the scene than a studio which allows two people to sit next to each other (which could be achieved in many cheaper ways).
At the end of the day everyone wants different things / thinks different things are important - which is why these discussions are healthy to have because it helps show what people in the community value.
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"An ambitious tournament series does a lot more good for the scene than a studio which allows two people to sit next to each other (which could be achieved in many cheaper ways)."
Are these things necessarily mutually exclusive?
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One point i'm not sure if was discussed much before, is that if they want to come off as serious and attract sponsors, they will need that professional level production - including a dedicated studio and physically casting together
(ASL style casting with a green screen is enough for online tournament + fans, but won't look professional enough)
I do hope that they achieve the goal of having an offline finals, and perhaps expand into having a ~4 studio days with a Ro24 or Ro16 where KR players can come play, and perhaps invite KR casters and everything too.
Ofc though this path is a bit muddied since GSL didn't die as many expected, and who knows if they'll continue next year too. If GSL continues it could hamper RSL's momentum a bit, but on the optimistic side it also means RSL will have had more time to position itself to take over for GSL if GSL does officially end someday.
I'm also curious if the studio they got is only big enough for the casters, or if there's room or room to expand to have a small viewing area with 2 setups for players to play live.
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On July 18 2025 17:06 WardiTV wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2025 07:11 Admiral Yang wrote:
At present, 36,000$ has been raised. Roughly 7,000$ has been redistrubted as prize money. The remaining 29,000$ has presumably paid salaries for casters and organizers on top of rented studios, scouted a new studio, and paid for production, on top of creating a buffer for season 2. Given what I understand to be the general costs of media production nowadays, that really doesn't seem like a controversial number. Just to keep us on track - the prize pool was only $7,000 because of a sponsor which doubled the prize pool. You could probably cover the prize pool RSL put in directly from the revenue they made from ads/streeaming in general, so pretty much 100% of patreon should be going into production/other costs. I'm not going to play the guessing game, but the reason people are not happy is because what is not being put into the production & prize pool is a controversial number compared to what it is - which is a community funded tournament. The product they have put out is not equivelant to the money they are spending. The tournament was great, but it was not $30,000 greater than other tournaments of similar/larger prize pools. SC2 is in a weird place, it's understandable players and community members are concerned about how communtiy funded money is being used. Personal opinion, if they scrapped the studio and all these other costs and put together a big prize money league, they could dominate the SC2 tournament scene with an awesome tournament series that all players take seriously and want to be a part of and it would be infinitely better for their goal of "saving StarCraft 2" than what is currently being done.
that is what i said: yes. exactly. if you asked me "do you want this online tournament to be casted from a studio, or casted from home and the players get an extra $80,000 a year in prizepool", i would have said prizepool. I think studio is only really necessary if you are going to play offline. i dont see the point otherwise. It looks more professional sure, i guess, but how much of a difference does that really make when other online tournaments like pigsty get the same viewership. I would have liked to see it all online then if you reach whatever crowdfunding benchmark to play matches offline THEN you get the studio and production team etc.
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Bisutopia19235 Posts
I just want to add I think it's pretty great what they are doing and I think it makes sense to fund the organizers well. It's so much effort and they have to make a living out of doing this too. Players can earn money in every tournament they play in, but the producers only earn on the tournaments they produce. They deserve to have a considerable income to make what the produce worthwhile for the community and for them personally.
I do like some of the ideas and feedback in this thread though, and maybe those ideas can help shape future versions of RSL and as always let's remember to stay positive and supportive as we discuss here.
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To me, the situation is pretty clear. Even if the OP wasn’t perfect, the question of where exactly the RSL donations are going is completely legitimate.
Obviously, only the RSL team itself can really answer that. As far as I know, they haven’t done so yet. Given that some time has passed and there have been chances to respond, that speaks volumes in my opinion.
Sure, Admiral Yang might see things differently – with his 7 posts on TL, all of which appear in this thread starting from page 6. But maybe, just maybe, if the Admiral digs really deep, he could give us some actual answers instead of just throwing around accusations and empty lines that sound more like a bruised ego talking.
Edit: Even though this does not represent my opinion, i really appreciate this post. Thanks
On July 18 2025 23:18 BisuDagger wrote:
I just want to add I think it's pretty great what they are doing and I think it makes sense to fund the organizers well. It's so much effort and they have to make a living out of doing this too. Players can earn money in every tournament they play in, but the producers only earn on the tournaments they produce. They deserve to have a considerable income to make what the produce worthwhile for the community and for them personally.
I do like some of the ideas and feedback in this thread though, and maybe those ideas can help shape future versions of RSL and as always let's remember to stay positive and supportive as we discuss here.
2nd edit: regarding quoted post: I totally agree with your statement: it makes sense to fund the organisers well and I am also greatful for another awesome SC2 event. But because RSL is a crowdfunded event, I think it's only fair to share at least roughly how the money is being spent. Especially when parts of such a small community like SC2 clearly have an interest in knowing. So far, we really only know: prize pool... and not prize pool, right?
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"But maybe, just maybe, if the Admiral digs really deep, he could give us some actual answers "
Ask away
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On July 18 2025 23:18 BisuDagger wrote:
I just want to add I think it's pretty great what they are doing and I think it makes sense to fund the organizers well. It's so much effort and they have to make a living out of doing this too. Players can earn money in every tournament they play in, but the producers only earn on the tournaments they produce. They deserve to have a considerable income to make what the produce worthwhile for the community and for them personally.
I do like some of the ideas and feedback in this thread though, and maybe those ideas can help shape future versions of RSL and as always let's remember to stay positive and supportive as we discuss here.
While that is true, players need a worthwile income too to stay active and "pro".
And Orgs are not gonna pay player salaries forever. Sooner or later players will only be able to stay pro if they win some considerable amount of price money and do some streaming.
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On July 18 2025 08:41 Balnazza wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2025 07:42 CHEONSOYUN wrote:there’s no issue with their patreon or tournament series as long as no one is under illusions about who it is for: it’s for the casters living in korea, not the players. tasteless and artosis already have $11,000/per month doing ASL which is essentially just a dub-over the ASL broadcast and ASL only runs half of the year. https://x.com/CallMeTasteless/status/1226094758860226560tasteless and artosis are notoriously two of the most expensive casters, even after changing their tune about which game they prefer between SC1 and SC2 when GSL started declining heavily and they were no longer in studio. don’t think it’s a surprise that people have doubts about how the money is being allocated. if the patreon was SC2-english casts no one would be batting an eye at the moment While I can understand your point, just three inputs on this: 1)You can't really control how much your Patreon makes. And this is specifically ASLEnglish...considering some of the BW-fans on here, I could see how they would be very angry if some of this money would be relocated for SC2. 2)If I recall correctly, Ziggy is also in on the mix, doing all the translations for the interviews etc. So you are splitting your money in three here per months and I assume Patreon also takes a certain cut. "11k per month" sounds great, but it is at best somewhere in the vicinity of 3.6k per person. Still good money, but you also have to consider that this is not a guaranteed salary 3)ASL only running for half a year is not really an issue here. For one, you can just cancel your subscription for those months if you feel like it. Plus it ensures that they can commit to it. If your job would only pay you half the year and expects you to finance yourself for the other half through some other means...you might want to switch to a different job that pays you for the entire year
Just wow dude lol.
UHHHH, ACTUALLY GUYSsss it's ACTUALLY only 3.6k per person for doing nothing, get your facts straight. And you can unsub if you want to dude no one's forcing you to pay them maaaaaaaaan, except more Tasteless shamwow salesman vibes of “we can't do this without you” and “please guys just sign up for a year”. Only said 4 times every broadcast. Those Harry's products don't buy themselves, my loyal fans.
I swear to god my dudes and dudesses you can even hear the shame in Artosis' voice as he weakly goes along with drawing more money out of people for doing something he would happily do for free. And that guy loves money enough to be abused by $3 donos all day. Even this is a bar too fucking low lolll.
Bro, McDonald's isn't making you eat their food bro, it's only cheap, easy and advertised everywhere. Get woke bro. Buy 9 dollar organic celery that tastes like shit bro. Free market maaaaannnn, we can do whatever we want maaaaaaaaan. Cancel your subscription at any time unless you forget maaaaaaaan, then you keep paying me maaaaaaaaaan.
God balnazzaaa and Admiral Yang..
No idea why anyone would respond to Admiral Yang, no offense my dude. Devil's advocate account made yesterday, doesn't google obvious things, doesn't use the quote feature, writes like a hotdog. Banned.
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On July 19 2025 12:13 RogerChillingworth wrote:
UHHHH, ACTUALLY GUYSsss it's ACTUALLY only 3.6k per person for doing nothing, get your facts straight.
Interesting thing is, i HEAVILY doubt Tasteless rates hes co-casters as much as himself, and shares 33% for each, i would say he has most money there.Obviously he has more weight in this structure, wouldnt live without him, so could be 5-7k for himself only.
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On July 19 2025 12:13 RogerChillingworth wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2025 08:41 Balnazza wrote:On July 18 2025 07:42 CHEONSOYUN wrote:there’s no issue with their patreon or tournament series as long as no one is under illusions about who it is for: it’s for the casters living in korea, not the players. tasteless and artosis already have $11,000/per month doing ASL which is essentially just a dub-over the ASL broadcast and ASL only runs half of the year. https://x.com/CallMeTasteless/status/1226094758860226560tasteless and artosis are notoriously two of the most expensive casters, even after changing their tune about which game they prefer between SC1 and SC2 when GSL started declining heavily and they were no longer in studio. don’t think it’s a surprise that people have doubts about how the money is being allocated. if the patreon was SC2-english casts no one would be batting an eye at the moment While I can understand your point, just three inputs on this: 1)You can't really control how much your Patreon makes. And this is specifically ASLEnglish...considering some of the BW-fans on here, I could see how they would be very angry if some of this money would be relocated for SC2. 2)If I recall correctly, Ziggy is also in on the mix, doing all the translations for the interviews etc. So you are splitting your money in three here per months and I assume Patreon also takes a certain cut. "11k per month" sounds great, but it is at best somewhere in the vicinity of 3.6k per person. Still good money, but you also have to consider that this is not a guaranteed salary 3)ASL only running for half a year is not really an issue here. For one, you can just cancel your subscription for those months if you feel like it. Plus it ensures that they can commit to it. If your job would only pay you half the year and expects you to finance yourself for the other half through some other means...you might want to switch to a different job that pays you for the entire year Just wow dude lol. UHHHH, ACTUALLY GUYSsss it's ACTUALLY only 3.6k per person for doing nothing, get your facts straight. And you can unsub if you want to dude no one's forcing you to pay them maaaaaaaaan, except more Tasteless shamwow salesman vibes of “we can't do this without you” and “please guys just sign up for a year”. Only said 4 times every broadcast. Those Harry's products don't buy themselves, my loyal fans. I swear to god my dudes and dudesses you can even hear the shame in Artosis' voice as he weakly goes along with drawing more money out of people for doing something he would happily do for free. And that guy loves money enough to be abused by $3 donos all day. Even this is a bar too fucking low lolll. Bro, McDonald's isn't making you eat their food bro, it's only cheap, easy and advertised everywhere. Get woke bro. Buy 9 dollar organic celery that tastes like shit bro. Free market maaaaannnn, we can do whatever we want maaaaaaaaan. Cancel your subscription at any time unless you forget maaaaaaaan, then you keep paying me maaaaaaaaaan. God balnazzaaa and Admiral Yang.. No idea why anyone would respond to Admiral Yang, no offense my dude. Devil's advocate account made yesterday, doesn't google obvious things, doesn't use the quote feature, writes like a hotdog. Banned.
10/10 d00d. I laughed.
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On July 19 2025 12:13 RogerChillingworth wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2025 08:41 Balnazza wrote:On July 18 2025 07:42 CHEONSOYUN wrote:there’s no issue with their patreon or tournament series as long as no one is under illusions about who it is for: it’s for the casters living in korea, not the players. tasteless and artosis already have $11,000/per month doing ASL which is essentially just a dub-over the ASL broadcast and ASL only runs half of the year. https://x.com/CallMeTasteless/status/1226094758860226560tasteless and artosis are notoriously two of the most expensive casters, even after changing their tune about which game they prefer between SC1 and SC2 when GSL started declining heavily and they were no longer in studio. don’t think it’s a surprise that people have doubts about how the money is being allocated. if the patreon was SC2-english casts no one would be batting an eye at the moment While I can understand your point, just three inputs on this: 1)You can't really control how much your Patreon makes. And this is specifically ASLEnglish...considering some of the BW-fans on here, I could see how they would be very angry if some of this money would be relocated for SC2. 2)If I recall correctly, Ziggy is also in on the mix, doing all the translations for the interviews etc. So you are splitting your money in three here per months and I assume Patreon also takes a certain cut. "11k per month" sounds great, but it is at best somewhere in the vicinity of 3.6k per person. Still good money, but you also have to consider that this is not a guaranteed salary 3)ASL only running for half a year is not really an issue here. For one, you can just cancel your subscription for those months if you feel like it. Plus it ensures that they can commit to it. If your job would only pay you half the year and expects you to finance yourself for the other half through some other means...you might want to switch to a different job that pays you for the entire year Just wow dude lol. UHHHH, ACTUALLY GUYSsss it's ACTUALLY only 3.6k per person for doing nothing, get your facts straight. And you can unsub if you want to dude no one's forcing you to pay them maaaaaaaaan, except more Tasteless shamwow salesman vibes of “we can't do this without you” and “please guys just sign up for a year”. Only said 4 times every broadcast. Those Harry's products don't buy themselves, my loyal fans. I swear to god my dudes and dudesses you can even hear the shame in Artosis' voice as he weakly goes along with drawing more money out of people for doing something he would happily do for free. And that guy loves money enough to be abused by $3 donos all day. Even this is a bar too fucking low lolll. Bro, McDonald's isn't making you eat their food bro, it's only cheap, easy and advertised everywhere. Get woke bro. Buy 9 dollar organic celery that tastes like shit bro. Free market maaaaannnn, we can do whatever we want maaaaaaaaan. Cancel your subscription at any time unless you forget maaaaaaaan, then you keep paying me maaaaaaaaaan. God balnazzaaa and Admiral Yang.. No idea why anyone would respond to Admiral Yang, no offense my dude. Devil's advocate account made yesterday, doesn't google obvious things, doesn't use the quote feature, writes like a hotdog. Banned.
Are you perhaps short of a marble?
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RSL Revival/Season 2
New season starts in month in a half from now , with another 24 day (!!!) "mega action".
So basicly before starting tasteless casually gets around 20000$ from his patreon in idle time, to NOT change prizepool at all, same 7000$ remains.
Just needs time to get started man...
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It is great to see a community that is very committed to ethics. This is a relief. I also am, as a patron, curious about how they divide the donations.
What is not so great is for some reason, very well-known figures in our niche game keep feeding fire to the RSL drama where Tasteless haven't answered for these concerns yet.
I wonder if the same community will stop watching a tournament funded by one of the most disgusting regimes in human history, or worse, will some members of our community stop casting or competing in that same tournament?
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On July 22 2025 15:40 Optimus Prime2 wrote:RSL Revival/Season 2 New season starts in month in a half from now , with another 24 day (!!!) "mega action". So basicly before starting tasteless casually gets around 20000$ from his patreon in idle time, to NOT change prizepool at all, same 7000$ remains. Just needs time to get started man...
Can you please just do some basic math like how many people work on this and how much is left for each of them if you divide the money? I can't believe you couldn't figure that out. Whats your real agenda? You have a personal gripe with tasteless?
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On July 22 2025 21:25 nimbim wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2025 15:40 Optimus Prime2 wrote:RSL Revival/Season 2 New season starts in month in a half from now , with another 24 day (!!!) "mega action". So basicly before starting tasteless casually gets around 20000$ from his patreon in idle time, to NOT change prizepool at all, same 7000$ remains. Just needs time to get started man... Can you please just do some basic math like how many people work on this and how much is left for each of them if you divide the money? I can't believe you couldn't figure that out. Whats your real agenda? You have a personal gripe with tasteless?
that work has no impact on quality of the stream, on quality of video source , on players experience too, on what his "team" and studio etc etc etc does impact? what does it change ? literally nothing. only what it has behind is another reason to ask for patreon money without transparency on where those are been spent.
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On July 23 2025 04:55 Optimus Prime2 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2025 21:25 nimbim wrote:On July 22 2025 15:40 Optimus Prime2 wrote:RSL Revival/Season 2 New season starts in month in a half from now , with another 24 day (!!!) "mega action". So basicly before starting tasteless casually gets around 20000$ from his patreon in idle time, to NOT change prizepool at all, same 7000$ remains. Just needs time to get started man... Can you please just do some basic math like how many people work on this and how much is left for each of them if you divide the money? I can't believe you couldn't figure that out. Whats your real agenda? You have a personal gripe with tasteless? that work has no impact on quality of the stream, on quality of video source , on players experience too, on what his "team" and studio etc etc etc does impact? what does it change ? literally nothing. only what it has behind is another reason to ask for patreon money without transparency on where those are been spent.
RSL: We will do a studio enviroment.
People: Okay, we give money for the studio enviroment.
RSL: Spends money on a studio enviroment.
You: BUT WHAT DO THEY SPEND THEIR MONEY FOR????
You might not notice this, but people don't stop existing and studios don't just vanish just because they are not currently in use. That stuff is a permanent cost, people need to be on payroll permanently aswell.
If people think a studio is unnecessary, then they shouldn't have paid for the Patreon...but that is an entirely different conversation. Your problem seems to be of a different nature though. Personal beef? Complete lack of understanding how the world works? Who knows, maybe shine some investigative light on that? Just bring more proof than last time.
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On July 23 2025 05:56 Balnazza wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2025 04:55 Optimus Prime2 wrote:On July 22 2025 21:25 nimbim wrote:On July 22 2025 15:40 Optimus Prime2 wrote:RSL Revival/Season 2 New season starts in month in a half from now , with another 24 day (!!!) "mega action". So basicly before starting tasteless casually gets around 20000$ from his patreon in idle time, to NOT change prizepool at all, same 7000$ remains. Just needs time to get started man... Can you please just do some basic math like how many people work on this and how much is left for each of them if you divide the money? I can't believe you couldn't figure that out. Whats your real agenda? You have a personal gripe with tasteless? that work has no impact on quality of the stream, on quality of video source , on players experience too, on what his "team" and studio etc etc etc does impact? what does it change ? literally nothing. only what it has behind is another reason to ask for patreon money without transparency on where those are been spent. RSL: We will do a studio enviroment. People: Okay, we give money for the studio enviroment. RSL: Spends money on a studio enviroment. You: BUT WHAT DO THEY SPEND THEIR MONEY FOR???? You might not notice this, but people don't stop existing and studios don't just vanish just because they are not currently in use. That stuff is a permanent cost, people need to be on payroll permanently aswell. If people think a studio is unnecessary, then they shouldn't have paid for the Patreon...but that is an entirely different conversation. Your problem seems to be of a different nature though. Personal beef? Complete lack of understanding how the world works? Who knows, maybe shine some investigative light on that? Just bring more proof than last time.
they do pay not for studio, they pay for pathetic dream of reviving GSL in "RSL" , paying for big revival promises in reviving sc2. FFS xd
If that cup would be just another "Tasteless summer open" that patreon would gather 2k at its best.
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Are there any explanations that aren't rectally sourced? It's reasonable to say the studio and staff cost a lot (even in the offseason, though?). It's reasonable to say that they haven't had sustained donations over many months/years. It's reasonable to say that they had a lot of upfront costs. It's unreasonable to think that Tasteless et al. are torching their careers for, at most, five figures USD. The frustrating thing is that none of these congeal into a coherent picture, because we have such little information from the organizers themselves.
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On July 23 2025 07:04 Optimus Prime2 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2025 05:56 Balnazza wrote:On July 23 2025 04:55 Optimus Prime2 wrote:On July 22 2025 21:25 nimbim wrote:On July 22 2025 15:40 Optimus Prime2 wrote:RSL Revival/Season 2 New season starts in month in a half from now , with another 24 day (!!!) "mega action". So basicly before starting tasteless casually gets around 20000$ from his patreon in idle time, to NOT change prizepool at all, same 7000$ remains. Just needs time to get started man... Can you please just do some basic math like how many people work on this and how much is left for each of them if you divide the money? I can't believe you couldn't figure that out. Whats your real agenda? You have a personal gripe with tasteless? that work has no impact on quality of the stream, on quality of video source , on players experience too, on what his "team" and studio etc etc etc does impact? what does it change ? literally nothing. only what it has behind is another reason to ask for patreon money without transparency on where those are been spent. RSL: We will do a studio enviroment. People: Okay, we give money for the studio enviroment. RSL: Spends money on a studio enviroment. You: BUT WHAT DO THEY SPEND THEIR MONEY FOR???? You might not notice this, but people don't stop existing and studios don't just vanish just because they are not currently in use. That stuff is a permanent cost, people need to be on payroll permanently aswell. If people think a studio is unnecessary, then they shouldn't have paid for the Patreon...but that is an entirely different conversation. Your problem seems to be of a different nature though. Personal beef? Complete lack of understanding how the world works? Who knows, maybe shine some investigative light on that? Just bring more proof than last time. they do pay not for studio, they pay for pathetic dream of reviving GSL in "RSL" , paying for big revival promises in reviving sc2. FFS xd If that cup would be just another "Tasteless summer open" that patreon would gather 2k at its best.
And you have still not made a single solid point why that is a bad thing. You claimed fraud, yet the only thing you proved is that people pay for something you don't like. That's...staggeringly unhelpful.
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On July 23 2025 09:42 Balnazza wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2025 07:04 Optimus Prime2 wrote:On July 23 2025 05:56 Balnazza wrote:On July 23 2025 04:55 Optimus Prime2 wrote:On July 22 2025 21:25 nimbim wrote:On July 22 2025 15:40 Optimus Prime2 wrote:RSL Revival/Season 2 New season starts in month in a half from now , with another 24 day (!!!) "mega action". So basicly before starting tasteless casually gets around 20000$ from his patreon in idle time, to NOT change prizepool at all, same 7000$ remains. Just needs time to get started man... Can you please just do some basic math like how many people work on this and how much is left for each of them if you divide the money? I can't believe you couldn't figure that out. Whats your real agenda? You have a personal gripe with tasteless? that work has no impact on quality of the stream, on quality of video source , on players experience too, on what his "team" and studio etc etc etc does impact? what does it change ? literally nothing. only what it has behind is another reason to ask for patreon money without transparency on where those are been spent. RSL: We will do a studio enviroment. People: Okay, we give money for the studio enviroment. RSL: Spends money on a studio enviroment. You: BUT WHAT DO THEY SPEND THEIR MONEY FOR???? You might not notice this, but people don't stop existing and studios don't just vanish just because they are not currently in use. That stuff is a permanent cost, people need to be on payroll permanently aswell. If people think a studio is unnecessary, then they shouldn't have paid for the Patreon...but that is an entirely different conversation. Your problem seems to be of a different nature though. Personal beef? Complete lack of understanding how the world works? Who knows, maybe shine some investigative light on that? Just bring more proof than last time. they do pay not for studio, they pay for pathetic dream of reviving GSL in "RSL" , paying for big revival promises in reviving sc2. FFS xd If that cup would be just another "Tasteless summer open" that patreon would gather 2k at its best. And you have still not made a single solid point why that is a bad thing. You claimed fraud, yet the only thing you proved is that people pay for something you don't like. That's...staggeringly unhelpful.
Proved? You know stuff called "matchfix" in sc2? So theres extreme count of super suspicious games/plays, but nobody ever can ban matchfixing player, because only way is to have his payment transactions exposed, like jim did with firefly.
And this case is extremely rare, when someone with "inside type" of info can expose someone. Here's same case , nobody can expose Tasteless other than himself, or his environment , but for sure his not a dick like firefly , to get exposed in any way.
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can i just interrupt for one second? are you still talking about− rsl prizepool? we have so much going on.. ewc, clem playing protoss and you wanna talk about rsl prize pool? unbelievable. that just seems like a desecration.
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Northern Ireland25273 Posts
On July 23 2025 20:00 Optimus Prime2 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2025 09:42 Balnazza wrote:On July 23 2025 07:04 Optimus Prime2 wrote:On July 23 2025 05:56 Balnazza wrote:On July 23 2025 04:55 Optimus Prime2 wrote:On July 22 2025 21:25 nimbim wrote:On July 22 2025 15:40 Optimus Prime2 wrote:RSL Revival/Season 2 New season starts in month in a half from now , with another 24 day (!!!) "mega action". So basicly before starting tasteless casually gets around 20000$ from his patreon in idle time, to NOT change prizepool at all, same 7000$ remains. Just needs time to get started man... Can you please just do some basic math like how many people work on this and how much is left for each of them if you divide the money? I can't believe you couldn't figure that out. Whats your real agenda? You have a personal gripe with tasteless? that work has no impact on quality of the stream, on quality of video source , on players experience too, on what his "team" and studio etc etc etc does impact? what does it change ? literally nothing. only what it has behind is another reason to ask for patreon money without transparency on where those are been spent. RSL: We will do a studio enviroment. People: Okay, we give money for the studio enviroment. RSL: Spends money on a studio enviroment. You: BUT WHAT DO THEY SPEND THEIR MONEY FOR???? You might not notice this, but people don't stop existing and studios don't just vanish just because they are not currently in use. That stuff is a permanent cost, people need to be on payroll permanently aswell. If people think a studio is unnecessary, then they shouldn't have paid for the Patreon...but that is an entirely different conversation. Your problem seems to be of a different nature though. Personal beef? Complete lack of understanding how the world works? Who knows, maybe shine some investigative light on that? Just bring more proof than last time. they do pay not for studio, they pay for pathetic dream of reviving GSL in "RSL" , paying for big revival promises in reviving sc2. FFS xd If that cup would be just another "Tasteless summer open" that patreon would gather 2k at its best. And you have still not made a single solid point why that is a bad thing. You claimed fraud, yet the only thing you proved is that people pay for something you don't like. That's...staggeringly unhelpful. Proved? You know stuff called "matchfix" in sc2? So theres extreme count of super suspicious games/plays, but nobody ever can ban matchfixing player, because only way is to have his payment transactions exposed, like jim did with firefly. And this case is extremely rare, when someone with "inside type" of info can expose someone. Here's same case , nobody can expose Tasteless other than himself, or his environment , but for sure his not a dick like firefly , to get exposed in any way.
Expose him for doing what?
1. Tasteless and the RSL crew make a Patreon, they get money.
2. So far, they are delivering the product and benchmarks they said they would.
Your posting in this thread is increasingly unhinged, and you just completely ignore any points anyone else makes so you can basically just repeat your OP.
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i'm planning to start a patreon to make optimus prime fuck off. still unsure about hiring a studio to do it though. feel free to join.
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Northern Ireland25273 Posts
On July 23 2025 22:15 angryground wrote:
i'm planning to start a patreon to make optimus prime fuck off. still unsure about hiring a studio to do it though. feel free to join.
Unfortunately we need him to stick around in case the Decepticons show up
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On July 23 2025 22:06 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2025 20:00 Optimus Prime2 wrote:On July 23 2025 09:42 Balnazza wrote:On July 23 2025 07:04 Optimus Prime2 wrote:On July 23 2025 05:56 Balnazza wrote:On July 23 2025 04:55 Optimus Prime2 wrote:On July 22 2025 21:25 nimbim wrote:On July 22 2025 15:40 Optimus Prime2 wrote:RSL Revival/Season 2 New season starts in month in a half from now , with another 24 day (!!!) "mega action". So basicly before starting tasteless casually gets around 20000$ from his patreon in idle time, to NOT change prizepool at all, same 7000$ remains. Just needs time to get started man... Can you please just do some basic math like how many people work on this and how much is left for each of them if you divide the money? I can't believe you couldn't figure that out. Whats your real agenda? You have a personal gripe with tasteless? that work has no impact on quality of the stream, on quality of video source , on players experience too, on what his "team" and studio etc etc etc does impact? what does it change ? literally nothing. only what it has behind is another reason to ask for patreon money without transparency on where those are been spent. RSL: We will do a studio enviroment. People: Okay, we give money for the studio enviroment. RSL: Spends money on a studio enviroment. You: BUT WHAT DO THEY SPEND THEIR MONEY FOR???? You might not notice this, but people don't stop existing and studios don't just vanish just because they are not currently in use. That stuff is a permanent cost, people need to be on payroll permanently aswell. If people think a studio is unnecessary, then they shouldn't have paid for the Patreon...but that is an entirely different conversation. Your problem seems to be of a different nature though. Personal beef? Complete lack of understanding how the world works? Who knows, maybe shine some investigative light on that? Just bring more proof than last time. they do pay not for studio, they pay for pathetic dream of reviving GSL in "RSL" , paying for big revival promises in reviving sc2. FFS xd If that cup would be just another "Tasteless summer open" that patreon would gather 2k at its best. And you have still not made a single solid point why that is a bad thing. You claimed fraud, yet the only thing you proved is that people pay for something you don't like. That's...staggeringly unhelpful. Proved? You know stuff called "matchfix" in sc2? So theres extreme count of super suspicious games/plays, but nobody ever can ban matchfixing player, because only way is to have his payment transactions exposed, like jim did with firefly. And this case is extremely rare, when someone with "inside type" of info can expose someone. Here's same case , nobody can expose Tasteless other than himself, or his environment , but for sure his not a dick like firefly , to get exposed in any way. Expose him for doing what? 1. Tasteless and the RSL crew make a Patreon, they get money. 2. So far, they are delivering the product and benchmarks they said they would. Your posting in this thread is increasingly unhinged, and you just completely ignore any points anyone else makes so you can basically just repeat your OP.
I think there is no point in arguing with people like the OP. Dude has not presented evidence, has ultra vague claims, and is very aggressive and insistent on his views despite not having the concrete receipts needed to prove that he is correct.
Don't get me wrong, I do believe accountability and transparency are needed when it comes to what Tasteless and co do with the patreon money. That I agree with. However, OP throwing wild claims without showing ABSOLUTE PROOF and just crapping on people who call him out for arguing in bad faith will only make him look like a loon at best, and a fool at worst.
Ball is at OP's court, show some actual proof. Show the receipts. Not just throw bs claims without any basis.
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On July 23 2025 22:42 Toshinou-Kyouko wrote:
Ball is at OP's court, show some actual proof. Show the receipts. Not just throw bs claims without any basis.
Sure i can't and nobody other than Tastless himself can. Thats why transparency is must have thing here. If Tasteless is doing things right, he have no problem to show how he spreads this money.
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On July 24 2025 04:28 Optimus Prime2 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2025 22:42 Toshinou-Kyouko wrote:
Ball is at OP's court, show some actual proof. Show the receipts. Not just throw bs claims without any basis. Sure i can't and nobody other than Tastless himself can. Thats why transparency is must have thing here. If Tasteless is doing things right, he have no problem to show how he spreads this money.
So you sit there with your dick in your hand and have squat...which is already rounded up. Just to repeat myself: "Staggeringly unhelpful"
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On July 24 2025 04:55 Balnazza wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2025 04:28 Optimus Prime2 wrote:On July 23 2025 22:42 Toshinou-Kyouko wrote:
Ball is at OP's court, show some actual proof. Show the receipts. Not just throw bs claims without any basis. Sure i can't and nobody other than Tastless himself can. Thats why transparency is must have thing here. If Tasteless is doing things right, he have no problem to show how he spreads this money. So you sit there with your dick in your hand and have squat...which is already rounded up. Just to repeat myself: "Staggeringly unhelpful"
what you say here is useless fanboy advocating, with no facts yourself on tasteless's transparencys , you jumping around and yelling abouts proofs.
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On July 24 2025 16:02 Optimus Prime2 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2025 04:55 Balnazza wrote:On July 24 2025 04:28 Optimus Prime2 wrote:On July 23 2025 22:42 Toshinou-Kyouko wrote:
Ball is at OP's court, show some actual proof. Show the receipts. Not just throw bs claims without any basis. Sure i can't and nobody other than Tastless himself can. Thats why transparency is must have thing here. If Tasteless is doing things right, he have no problem to show how he spreads this money. So you sit there with your dick in your hand and have squat...which is already rounded up. Just to repeat myself: "Staggeringly unhelpful" what you say here is useless fanboy advocating, with no facts yourself on tasteless's transparencys , you jumping around and yelling abouts proofs.
The onus is on the accuser to bring proof.
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On July 24 2025 16:04 MJG wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2025 16:02 Optimus Prime2 wrote:On July 24 2025 04:55 Balnazza wrote:On July 24 2025 04:28 Optimus Prime2 wrote:On July 23 2025 22:42 Toshinou-Kyouko wrote:
Ball is at OP's court, show some actual proof. Show the receipts. Not just throw bs claims without any basis. Sure i can't and nobody other than Tastless himself can. Thats why transparency is must have thing here. If Tasteless is doing things right, he have no problem to show how he spreads this money. So you sit there with your dick in your hand and have squat...which is already rounded up. Just to repeat myself: "Staggeringly unhelpful" what you say here is useless fanboy advocating, with no facts yourself on tasteless's transparencys , you jumping around and yelling abouts proofs. The onus is on the accuser to bring proof.
I tend to agree with this.
But this is mostly healthy behavior, to bring things to the attention of the community.
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On July 24 2025 18:05 johnnyh123 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2025 16:04 MJG wrote:On July 24 2025 16:02 Optimus Prime2 wrote:On July 24 2025 04:55 Balnazza wrote:On July 24 2025 04:28 Optimus Prime2 wrote:On July 23 2025 22:42 Toshinou-Kyouko wrote:
Ball is at OP's court, show some actual proof. Show the receipts. Not just throw bs claims without any basis. Sure i can't and nobody other than Tastless himself can. Thats why transparency is must have thing here. If Tasteless is doing things right, he have no problem to show how he spreads this money. So you sit there with your dick in your hand and have squat...which is already rounded up. Just to repeat myself: "Staggeringly unhelpful" what you say here is useless fanboy advocating, with no facts yourself on tasteless's transparencys , you jumping around and yelling abouts proofs. The onus is on the accuser to bring proof. I tend to agree with this. But this is mostly healthy behavior, to bring things to the attention of the community.
Healthy behavior when the guy has 29 post 24 trying to create drama out of thin air and 5 responding to match fixing drama
Yep seems very healthy to me
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Northern Ireland25273 Posts
On July 24 2025 18:05 johnnyh123 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2025 16:04 MJG wrote:On July 24 2025 16:02 Optimus Prime2 wrote:On July 24 2025 04:55 Balnazza wrote:On July 24 2025 04:28 Optimus Prime2 wrote:On July 23 2025 22:42 Toshinou-Kyouko wrote:
Ball is at OP's court, show some actual proof. Show the receipts. Not just throw bs claims without any basis. Sure i can't and nobody other than Tastless himself can. Thats why transparency is must have thing here. If Tasteless is doing things right, he have no problem to show how he spreads this money. So you sit there with your dick in your hand and have squat...which is already rounded up. Just to repeat myself: "Staggeringly unhelpful" what you say here is useless fanboy advocating, with no facts yourself on tasteless's transparencys , you jumping around and yelling abouts proofs. The onus is on the accuser to bring proof. I tend to agree with this. But this is mostly healthy behavior, to bring things to the attention of the community.
Healthy behaviour would be, well not what OP is doing.
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I guess at least he is keeping his topic alive, otherwise it would go down just as I predicted:
RSL/Tasteless can just wait a week or two and all of this will die down. They don't have to address any of it.
Though I guess we'll probably end up at this conclusion either way if discussion is generated at the current rate, just a week behind schedule.
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On July 24 2025 16:02 Optimus Prime2 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2025 04:55 Balnazza wrote:On July 24 2025 04:28 Optimus Prime2 wrote:On July 23 2025 22:42 Toshinou-Kyouko wrote:
Ball is at OP's court, show some actual proof. Show the receipts. Not just throw bs claims without any basis. Sure i can't and nobody other than Tastless himself can. Thats why transparency is must have thing here. If Tasteless is doing things right, he have no problem to show how he spreads this money. So you sit there with your dick in your hand and have squat...which is already rounded up. Just to repeat myself: "Staggeringly unhelpful" what you say here is useless fanboy advocating, with no facts yourself on tasteless's transparencys , you jumping around and yelling abouts proofs.
Honey, I don't care about RSL. Or GSL for that matter. Literally no interest in it.
So you can't even get that one right...
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EPT![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/1ZG9cEw.png)
