|
On August 17 2025 16:40 Telephone wrote:
I love RSL, I think it's a ton of fun. I'm contributing to the patreon and I'm happy about it. Stateless and company are great, and I hope that they continue to put out this product.
As long as remaining players will support this clownfiesta and sign to play, surely it will continue .
|
If any of Serral, Reynor, or Clem happen to read this site and want to do something positive for Starcraft 2, publicly decry the revenue split (90/10 current) and refuse to play until it becomes more equitable. A 50/50 split which is approximately standard in U.S. professional sports which have a lot more inherent overhead than an online event would see player compensation increase from $11,000 for the year from RSL pledges to ~$60,000. While Tasteless's name is a huge part of RSL being able to generate the revenue it does, it wouldn't do it without the best players and they need to leverage that power.
|
Northern Ireland25898 Posts
On August 17 2025 23:01 RogueTheGOAT wrote:
If any of Serral, Reynor, or Clem happen to read this site and want to do something positive for Starcraft 2, publicly decry the revenue split (90/10 current) and refuse to play until it becomes more equitable. A 50/50 split which is approximately standard in U.S. professional sports which have a lot more inherent overhead than an online event would see player compensation increase from $11,000 for the year from RSL pledges to ~$60,000. While Tasteless's name is a huge part of RSL being able to generate the revenue it does, it wouldn't do it without the best players and they need to leverage that power.
Yeah I’d love that. Players who had nothing critical to say about sportswashing whatsoever, finding their balls for the much bigger crime of whatever you’re annoyed about.
That would be defanged entirely if Patreons dropped it, which they are seemingly not doing. That option is absolutely there.
Prominent SC figures coming out over Tasteless’ endeavour for being unethical having said nothing about Saudi sportswashing, yeah it’s not a great look.
|
United States33463 Posts
https://fr.ulule.com/maestros-of-the-game/
I think the new ComebackTV tournament is a very relevant direct comparison, with a 52:40:8 split of donations between production : prize money : cut from the crowdfunding platform.
By reaching 41,000 Euros of crowdfunding, they've locked in €15,000 of prize money for a one-month season with a higher volume of games (the formats are essentially the same but they've included one extra preliminary stage), AND a 4-player offline finals component with flights paid.
|
On August 18 2025 10:37 Waxangel wrote:https://fr.ulule.com/maestros-of-the-game/I think the new ComebackTV tournament is a very relevant direct comparison, with a 52:40:8 split of donations between production : prize money : cut from the crowdfunding platform. By reaching 41,000 Euros of crowdfunding, they've locked in €15,000 of prize money for a one-month season with a higher volume of games (the formats are essentially the same but they've included one extra preliminary stage), AND a 4-player offline finals component with flights paid.
not a fair comparison because you have to take into account the cost of living expenses for the casters living in korea
|
On August 18 2025 11:05 CHEONSOYUN wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2025 10:37 Waxangel wrote:https://fr.ulule.com/maestros-of-the-game/I think the new ComebackTV tournament is a very relevant direct comparison, with a 52:40:8 split of donations between production : prize money : cut from the crowdfunding platform. By reaching 41,000 Euros of crowdfunding, they've locked in €15,000 of prize money for a one-month season with a higher volume of games (the formats are essentially the same but they've included one extra preliminary stage), AND a 4-player offline finals component with flights paid. not a fair comparison because you have to take into account the cost of living expenses for the casters living in korea
It's crazy that the casters have all of these cost of living expenses but the 10 players from season 1 also living in Korea don't.
|
United States33463 Posts
On August 18 2025 11:05 CHEONSOYUN wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2025 10:37 Waxangel wrote:https://fr.ulule.com/maestros-of-the-game/I think the new ComebackTV tournament is a very relevant direct comparison, with a 52:40:8 split of donations between production : prize money : cut from the crowdfunding platform. By reaching 41,000 Euros of crowdfunding, they've locked in €15,000 of prize money for a one-month season with a higher volume of games (the formats are essentially the same but they've included one extra preliminary stage), AND a 4-player offline finals component with flights paid. not a fair comparison because you have to take into account the cost of living expenses for the casters living in korea
true, the French tournament should cost more 
|
Northern Ireland25898 Posts
The French tournament is a one-shot, as far as I’m aware. Money raised = money spent on this specific tournament.
RSL isn’t, they’re clearly ringfencing funds for latter seasons. Like the Patreon started out as a recurring event from day one.
I absolutely think the split could, and should be better. I’d probably be arguing that now if the thread wasn’t so full of fanatical haters. But even factoring that I think there are some mitigating factors at least.
|
On August 18 2025 11:35 WombaT wrote:
RSL isn’t, they’re clearly ringfencing funds for latter seasons. Like the Patreon started out as a recurring event from day one.
This claim is completely baseless and contradicts actual evidence. The $11,000 pledge level unlocks a third tournament which brings the total prize pool for all 3 to be ~$11,000. They don't need to accumulate funds for future seasons when the costs of a season are significantly less than the funds raised over the duration of the tournament.
On August 18 2025 11:35 WombaT wrote:
I absolutely think the split could, and should be better.
No, you don't. You have an excuse for literally anything anyone says.
On August 18 2025 11:35 WombaT wrote:
I’d probably be arguing that now if the thread wasn’t so full of fanatical haters.
"I'd think the players deserve more money, but some other people were less than eloquent in bringing up the issue, so let them eat cake." -WombaT
|
I think the new ComebackTV tournament is a very relevant direct comparison, with a 52:40:8 split of donations between production : prize money : cut from the crowdfunding platform.
By reaching 41,000 Euros of crowdfunding, they've locked in €15,000 of prize money for a one-month season with a higher volume of games (the formats are essentially the same but they've included one extra preliminary stage), AND a 4-player offline finals component with flights paid.
Interesting, thank you.
First of all, I don't speak French, so I have no idea about most of what that website says. I hope "refuser" at least locked me out of cookies.
My main question is: How will this website be casted in English? If it's just some guy in a chair talking to himself and Twitchchat for 10 hours, then I don't really see the comparison, since they will be offering the exact product that I donated to RSL to avoid.
|
On August 18 2025 10:37 Waxangel wrote:https://fr.ulule.com/maestros-of-the-game/I think the new ComebackTV tournament is a very relevant direct comparison, with a 52:40:8 split of donations between production : prize money : cut from the crowdfunding platform. By reaching 41,000 Euros of crowdfunding, they've locked in €15,000 of prize money for a one-month season with a higher volume of games (the formats are essentially the same but they've included one extra preliminary stage), AND a 4-player offline finals component with flights paid.
This definitely demonstrates that the donated money could be split better by RSL.
EDIT:
I do think Wombat is right in that RSL seem to be ringfencing funding for the future with an eye towards making their dream of being a fully offline GSL replacement come to fruition. He's also right to point out that it remains to be seen whether the funding split ComebackTV are using is sustainable in the long run because this is only one event. All of these things can be true at the same time.
|
Northern Ireland25898 Posts
On August 18 2025 19:43 MJG wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2025 10:37 Waxangel wrote:https://fr.ulule.com/maestros-of-the-game/I think the new ComebackTV tournament is a very relevant direct comparison, with a 52:40:8 split of donations between production : prize money : cut from the crowdfunding platform. By reaching 41,000 Euros of crowdfunding, they've locked in €15,000 of prize money for a one-month season with a higher volume of games (the formats are essentially the same but they've included one extra preliminary stage), AND a 4-player offline finals component with flights paid. This definitely demonstrates that the donated money could be split better by RSL. EDIT: I do think Wombat is right in that RSL seem to be ringfencing funding for the future with an eye towards making their dream of being a fully offline GSL replacement come to fruition. He's also right to point out that it remains to be seen whether the funding split ComebackTV are using is sustainable in the long run because this is only one event. All of these things can be true at the same time.
As an aside, with the GSL as a limited example given that was prize pool boosting not funding the whole thing, seems the fans can crowdfund decent tournaments without too much bother, one just needs to ask.
Perhaps not enough to fund a pro scene by ourselves of equivalent size, that’s possibly a stretch. But it’s starting to look like it could be sustainable, or at least a more gradual decline if only for a little support.
The lack thereof is, rather frustrating to say the least. I don’t expect Blizz to do what they used to, and indeed I don’t think they get enough credit for likely losing rather a lot of money supporting the eSports side of things.
But stick a few skins and announcers or whatever up, like the old Warchests, pool some of that into an eSports fund, or hey, let people donate directly to that fund.
ESL likewise don’t have to prop up a whole circuit, but surely a one-off tournament or two is in their wheelhouse?
|
I wonder why is "GSL back" idea is even exist for people? GSL will never be old GSL , there will never be same prizemoney for each season, everything decreased 3x in comparsion to best seasons before, amount of players, hype of the tournament, preparation , prestige of winning this, just overall game quality. And it wont restore. Even 100k$ prizemoney for GSL season won't change much, as overall prizemoney in a year for korean players is still miserable in comparsion to last years, and doesnt motivate to work hard. As an example Maru, the GSL GOAT of all times, played protoss vs Gumiho, and lost in a kinda terrible way @ this years "GSL", that telegraphs alot about overall current GSL state.
|
Northern Ireland25898 Posts
On August 18 2025 11:53 RogueTheGOAT wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2025 11:35 WombaT wrote:
RSL isn’t, they’re clearly ringfencing funds for latter seasons. Like the Patreon started out as a recurring event from day one. This claim is completely baseless and contradicts actual evidence. The $11,000 pledge level unlocks a third tournament which brings the total prize pool for all 3 to be ~$11,000. They don't need to accumulate funds for future seasons when the costs of a season are significantly less than the funds raised over the duration of the tournament. Show nested quote +On August 18 2025 11:35 WombaT wrote:
I absolutely think the split could, and should be better. No, you don't. You have an excuse for literally anything anyone says. Show nested quote +On August 18 2025 11:35 WombaT wrote:
I’d probably be arguing that now if the thread wasn’t so full of fanatical haters. "I'd think the players deserve more money, but some other people were less than eloquent in bringing up the issue, so let them eat cake." -WombaT
Eloquence or the lack thereof has very little to do with it.
I think the split should be better, I’ve said so in the past.
The option to just you know, not donate to the Patreon is absolutely there, one doesn’t necessarily have to brigade against it. Something that particularly irks me given the rather striking absence of ethical concerns in many quarters when it comes to SC2 as a sportswashing pawn, which is apparently fine by many.
I don’t possess an itemised list of all their expenses and how that works, nor do I pretend to.
What I think is the initial Patreon did better than expected. I think the initial attempt was to start small, and gauge interest, for a more ambitious future goal and they way exceeded those goals.
Like if I decided to seek interest to run like a death metal night in a local venue, and was looking just to hold a few, and get way more money and interest than expected, what do I do with it? Do I supercharge the first three planned events, or think bigger for future ones?
My pitchfork is merely holstered by virtue of somewhat justified good faith in the motives of those involved for now,
If RSL #4 isn’t a step up in ambition, without a better prize pool split, or whatever, then I’ll completely flip my stance. You can trust me on that one.
|
Northern Ireland25898 Posts
On August 19 2025 10:05 Optimus Prime2 wrote:
I wonder why is "GSL back" idea is even exist for people? GSL will never be old GSL , there will never be same prizemoney for each season, everything decreased 3x in comparsion to best seasons before, amount of players, hype of the tournament, preparation , prestige of winning this, just overall game quality. And it wont restore. Even 100k$ prizemoney for GSL season won't change much, as overall prizemoney in a year for korean players is still miserable in comparsion to last years, and doesnt motivate to work hard. As an example Maru, the GSL GOAT of all times, played protoss vs Gumiho, and lost in a kinda terrible way @ this years "GSL", that telegraphs alot about overall current GSL state.
Why run any tournaments then?
|
On August 19 2025 10:46 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2025 10:05 Optimus Prime2 wrote:
I wonder why is "GSL back" idea is even exist for people? GSL will never be old GSL , there will never be same prizemoney for each season, everything decreased 3x in comparsion to best seasons before, amount of players, hype of the tournament, preparation , prestige of winning this, just overall game quality. And it wont restore. Even 100k$ prizemoney for GSL season won't change much, as overall prizemoney in a year for korean players is still miserable in comparsion to last years, and doesnt motivate to work hard. As an example Maru, the GSL GOAT of all times, played protoss vs Gumiho, and lost in a kinda terrible way @ this years "GSL", that telegraphs alot about overall current GSL state. Why run any tournaments then?
Thing is, starcraft is just losing his weight, ageing, and this process changes game state from full time job, which is well paid to a more partial job , when you just need to maintain your average skill or slightly improve to payoff in a good way, but have other priorities in life, others than sc2. It used to be other way around, sc2 was only thing for most progamers in 2010-2019, bootcamps, practise 10-14h a day. And without big changes by blizzard or asian developers nothing happens, maybe sc3 will do it, but not indi donation tournaments for sure.
|
On August 19 2025 10:44 WombaT wrote:
What I think is the initial Patreon did better than expected. I think the initial attempt was to start small, and gauge interest, for a more ambitious future goal and they way exceeded those goals.
They had an initial goal to fund a 3rd tournament with an equally pathetic prize pool if they reach $11,000 per month which they did extremely quickly. It doesn't take 6 months and $60,000+ to pay out more than peanuts to the players.
On August 19 2025 10:44 WombaT wrote:
Like if I decided to seek interest to run like a death metal night in a local venue, and was looking just to hold a few, and get way more money and interest than expected, what do I do with it? Do I supercharge the first three planned events, or think bigger for future ones?
The comparison doesn't really work. If you've rented a venue and sold tickets for an event starting at a certain time, adding more performers (I'm assuming that's what you mean by supercharging) isn't always possible or even desirable. Holding an offline event also comes with significant up front costs that have to be paid before tickets are sold. An online event has no inherent costs and can be scaled upward and downward depending on funding extremely easily.
On August 19 2025 10:44 WombaT wrote:
My pitchfork is merely holstered by virtue of somewhat justified good faith in the motives of those involved for now,
There is literally no reason to have faith in their motives. The preponderance of evidence says they are pocketing the money and they've very deliberately avoided weighing in on the topic or provide information on future, larger plans other than to note that if people throw even MORE money at them that they'll have an offline finals.
|
Imagine wanting to save SC2.
Everyone donating is as retarded as the grifter.
E: And everyone playing, for that matter.
|
On August 20 2025 00:45 RogueTheGOAT wrote:
There is literally no reason to have faith in their motives. The preponderance of evidence says they are pocketing the money and they've very deliberately avoided weighing in on the topic or provide information on future, larger plans other than to note that if people throw even MORE money at them that they'll have an offline finals.
Gotta jump in to disagree on this point. There is plenty of reason to have faith in Tasteless & co. given all of the time and effort they have put into StarCraft. I don't think they would sacrifice 20 years of built-up good will and reputation for what amounts to a below-minimum-wage salary for 1 year for each of them. It's not impossible, of course, but history points to it being highly unlikely. Furthermore, "pocketing the money" is a bit unfair, but now we're getting into semantics. Either way, can't really know what's going to happen until they announce it, and doing so in a carefully-worded way when their future plans are more concrete would be the wisest way to do so, so I don't blame them for holding their tongues this long.
In short, both outcomes are possible, but saying that there is "no reason" to have faith in them is a bridge too far. Pump those brakes a bit, chief.
|
On August 20 2025 05:12 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2025 00:45 RogueTheGOAT wrote:
There is literally no reason to have faith in their motives. The preponderance of evidence says they are pocketing the money and they've very deliberately avoided weighing in on the topic or provide information on future, larger plans other than to note that if people throw even MORE money at them that they'll have an offline finals. Gotta jump in to disagree on this point. There is plenty of reason to have faith in Tasteless & co. given all of the time and effort they have put into StarCraft. I don't think they would sacrifice 20 years of built-up good will and reputation for what amounts to a below-minimum-wage salary for 1 year for each of them. It's not impossible, of course, but history points to it being highly unlikely. Furthermore, "pocketing the money" is a bit unfair, but now we're getting into semantics. Either way, can't really know what's going to happen until they announce it, and doing so in a carefully-worded way when their future plans are more concrete would be the wisest way to do so, so I don't blame them for holding their tongues this long. In short, both outcomes are possible, but saying that there is "no reason" to have faith in them is a bridge too far. Pump those brakes a bit, chief.
The time and effort that Tasteless put into SC2 was casting as a job. He might have had passion at one point, but by the time LotV came out (that's close to 10 years ago), he was just going through the motions. He showed up to the studio, shot the shit with Artosis for a few hours, then clocked out. Good for him, but having worked for GOMTV and AfreecaTV does not give him any credibility in the bourgeois side of the labor/business divide. Hell, people have spent 15+ years telling Tasteless that he's one of the main reasons they watched GSL (the consistently highest average level of SC2 competition), so him seeing himself as the show and thus the one deserving to reap the financial reward of the money he is raising is completely reasonable and predictable.
Tasteless isn't stealing money because RSL never promised to pay out more than it is doing, but the idea that people only steal or act unethical for huge amounts of money is flat out nonsense. e.g. Jontay Porter was banned for life by the NBA for his involvement in a prop bet that would have paid him ~25% of his $1,157,153 salary along with other bets that net him $22,000. Tasteless's reputation is all well and good, but that doesn't pay the bills. He's basically lost his job with Afreeca no longer paying him to cast Brood War and having an extremely abbreviated GSL cast, so supplementing he's supplementing his income with RSL. As for how much Tasteless is making from it, I split the money evenly in my napkin math for the sake of convenience, but he's the reason RSL is generating the pledges it does, so him taking more than an even piece would not be unexpected. He was always paid more for doing major SC2 tournaments than anyone other than Artosis.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
