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CicadaSC
United States1813 Posts
On August 13 2025 10:08 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: OP is just slandering or trolling, can we close this thread I don't know who the op is but I think it's perfectly fine to criticize how crowdfunding is spent. The money comes from us and a discussion could change future seasons prize distribution as a result. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25905 Posts
On August 13 2025 10:08 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: OP is just slandering or trolling, can we close this thread I think the thread existing is fine, it’s a legitimate topic of discussion and it also keeps it out of the main RSL thread. How OP themselves choose to discuss it on the other hand… | ||
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duckTemplar
United States198 Posts
$5,000 $4,250 / month Thor $1,000 $850 / month is the 2 most expensive plans that i can see, ofc there is the SCV $5 $4.25 / month plan. | ||
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RogueTheGOAT
166 Posts
Lets say they get $120,000 after Patreon's cut. Suppose the costs of rent, business insurance, equipment, set up costs, taxes, and any other expenses that are not paying players or casters is an absurd $40,000 or $3,333/month. The RSL page promises 15,000,000 Korean Won over three seasons which is ~$11,000. They paid out more for season 1, but that was due to an additional sponsorship, not RSL contributions. 120,000 - 40,000 - 11,000 = $69,000. The TL thread mentions 4 people (Tasteless, Gemini, Ziggy, and State), but let's assume they add someone else to do the observing and they split the leftover evenly. That's $13,800 per person. If your crowdfunding pays out 5 different individuals more than the sum paid out to ALL players for the entire different year despite claiming to "help carry the torch of SC2 into the future", then it is reasonable to characterize it as a scam and the individuals running it as scammers. Note, something being a scam does not inherently require it to be a crime. Anyone who knows anything about timeshares would characterize those as scams. All that being said, random individuals should not make claims of the motivations of players who decline to participate in the event. You would hope that players who are aware of the money disparity and are thus boycotting the event would publicly explain that, but if they're not, then that's their choice. | ||
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Optimus Prime2
64 Posts
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tigera6
3432 Posts
On August 14 2025 00:01 RogueTheGOAT wrote: The RSL patreon is generating $12,000 a month. That's $144,000 per year. Lets say they get $120,000 after Patreon's cut. Suppose the costs of rent, business insurance, equipment, set up costs, taxes, and any other expenses that are not paying players or casters is an absurd $40,000 or $3,333/month. The RSL page promises 15,000,000 Korean Won over three seasons which is ~$11,000. They paid out more for season 1, but that was due to an additional sponsorship, not RSL contributions. 120,000 - 40,000 - 11,000 = $69,000. The TL thread mentions 4 people (Tasteless, Gemini, Ziggy, and State), but let's assume they add someone else to do the observing and they split the leftover evenly. That's $13,800 per person. If your crowdfunding pays out 5 different individuals more than the sum paid out to ALL players for the entire different year despite claiming to "help carry the torch of SC2 into the future", then it is reasonable to characterize it as a scam and the individuals running it as scammers. Note, something being a scam does not inherently require it to be a crime. Anyone who knows anything about timeshares would characterize those as scams. All that being said, random individuals should not make claims of the motivations of players who decline to participate in the event. You would hope that players who are aware of the money disparity and are thus boycotting the event would publicly explain that, but if they're not, then that's their choice. 13800$ per person for the whole year is about 1150$/month, its not that absurd of an salary. Besides, you need to think of this as a cashflow, and do not count chickens before they hatch. So far we have 4 months since they made the announcement, that means we have 48k collected in total, minus the % for Patreon (base on your rate) would give a 40k. And during that they have paid 3500/month (your assumption) for the cost of the event, and the prize pool of 2 season which are about 7500$ total. So what they have remained today is about 18k for 5 people, meaning 3600$ each person for 4 months, or 900$ a month. Yeah, I guess caster and organizer need to make some money especially with living cost in Seoul. Any adult person knows the organizers arent doing free stuff to "save SC2", they need to make profit for themselves as well. So calling anything a scam just because its making some profit isnt appropriate imo. | ||
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RogueTheGOAT
166 Posts
On August 14 2025 00:51 tigera6 wrote: 13800$ per person for the whole year is about 1150$/month, its not that absurd of an salary. There are 3 RSLs planned under the current donation goal and each lasts a month, so that's $4,600/month for what is essentially a seasonal part time job after work. | ||
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Gescom
Canada3480 Posts
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RogueTheGOAT
166 Posts
On August 14 2025 01:11 Gescom wrote: IMO :: I think it's foolish to extrapolate into what month 11 of RSL looks like. Do we think they're gonna go dark for 6 months? So far S1 was great and S2 is shaping up to be nice as well, especially in (again) the absence of any GSL news whatsoever. Annualized plans and goals are nice, but SC2 is not stable enough right now for people to make annual commitments. The Tastosis ASL Patreon continued to generate $10,000+ in monthly pledges in the ~7 months between when ASL season 19 and season 20 were played/casted, so it is actually quite reasonable to assume that the level of pledges for RSL stay similar over the year. | ||
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Optimus Prime2
64 Posts
On August 14 2025 01:11 Gescom wrote: IMO :: I think it's foolish to extrapolate into what month 11 of RSL looks like. Do we think they're gonna go dark for 6 months? So far S1 was great and S2 is shaping up to be nice as well, especially in (again) the absence of any GSL news whatsoever. Annualized plans and goals are nice, but SC2 is not stable enough right now for people to make annual commitments. Serral out for 2 seasons, in season 2 Clem, herO , Solar and Showtime are all signed off aswell. Its shaping up to be nice due to? | ||
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CicadaSC
United States1813 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25905 Posts
On August 14 2025 01:11 Gescom wrote: IMO :: I think it's foolish to extrapolate into what month 11 of RSL looks like. Do we think they're gonna go dark for 6 months? So far S1 was great and S2 is shaping up to be nice as well, especially in (again) the absence of any GSL news whatsoever. Annualized plans and goals are nice, but SC2 is not stable enough right now for people to make annual commitments. I’m still 100% convinced that RSL was, after an initial test event or two, actively intended to fill the GSL hole. Probably not fully, but at least attempt a ‘GSL lite’ eventually. Koreans had absolutely nothing tournament wise on the horizon, in Korea. I think all of the RSL guys except for maybe Mapu are based in Korea. Then boom EWC decide to fucking announce and things appear again. Now we’re back into the unknown again. I mean do you go all-out, only for that happen to again and steal your thunder? I think you’ve got a potential headache to solve. If you do make a segment an offline extravaganza at some future juncture, then how does that look? Do you have to boost the pool to make that viable, or ban MaxPax from entering? I personally really enjoyed season 1. I think Tasteless was more energised than I’ve seen him for a while, I think State is excellent and honestly injected a bit of freshness into the Stateless combo that was lacking a bit from latter-day Tastosis. Gemini is good value too, and there was some British bloke I’d never encountered before (and asked his name, was told and forgot again ), that I also enjoyed. I quite liked the rotation of casters as well, lots of combos and we got a Reynor cameo too! I’m interested to see where they go moving forwards. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25905 Posts
On August 14 2025 06:43 CicadaSC wrote: Ideally you make the money from the livestream and the sponsors while the crowdfund goes into the prize pool. That's what PiG does and each pigsty event goes very successful. Wardi also has a patreon where 100% goes into the prize pool. The reason is they make money off that on their stream. It gives them content. This seems like a much more healthy scenario for the scene than spending most of it on what I guess is a studio and production? While not holding matches offline? I suggested more (not all) tournaments should go online for years to be more sustainable, give out bigger prize pools, and I didn’t think in many instances the LAN element actually added all that much and was continually shot down for like over a decade. Now, suddenly the shoe’s on the other foot and seemingly everyone is saying that RSL should be a bedroom cast because that’s the way to go. Where were all these concerns over production costs and non-playing talent back in the day? | ||
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Gescom
Canada3480 Posts
On August 14 2025 05:05 Optimus Prime2 wrote: Serral out for 2 seasons, in season 2 Clem, herO , Solar and Showtime are all signed off aswell. Its shaping up to be nice due to? Don't act like a Maru/Reynor/Maxpax/Creator/Classic/Cure/ByuN/SHIN ro8 wouldn't get you hot under the collar, bud. | ||
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Optimus Prime2
64 Posts
On August 14 2025 10:51 Gescom wrote: Don't act like a Maru/Reynor/Maxpax/Creator/Classic/Cure/ByuN/SHIN ro8 wouldn't get you hot under the collar, bud. That line up is far from ideal, when you have to put Creator in the menu. I mean, thats very basic regular online cup line up, with many cuts, only difference is +Maru, which most likely won't be taking this cup seriosly, as he doesn't online for last several years. | ||
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Optimus Prime2
64 Posts
On August 14 2025 07:37 WombaT wrote: I personally really enjoyed season 1. I think Tasteless was more energised than I’ve seen him for a while, I’m interested to see where they go moving forwards. With his salary for 2h casting a day, anyone would be. Games were super bad and not exciting, Clem just gave up twice in a row with Classic, other series were just a roflstomps. Only real good series was Classic vs ByuN. But even there, it feels like Classic wasn't been playing his full strength with a lead, and gave ByuN too many chances for comeback, so it went 2-0 > 3-2 | ||
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MJG
United Kingdom1306 Posts
On August 14 2025 00:01 RogueTheGOAT wrote: If your crowdfunding pays out 5 different individuals more than the sum paid out to ALL players for the entire different year despite claiming to "help carry the torch of SC2 into the future", then it is reasonable to characterize it as a scam and the individuals running it as scammers. Note, something being a scam does not inherently require it to be a crime. Anyone who knows anything about timeshares would characterize those as scams. A scam is when someone doesn't fulfil their obligations or lies about their obligations. It requires dishonesty on the part of the scammer. RSL have thus far done exactly what they said they would do in their Patreon pitch. How is that a scam? EDIT: There are plenty of legitimate criticisms you can make of this tournament. That they haven't done what they said they'd do isn't one of them. | ||
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Lambertus
South Africa977 Posts
On August 14 2025 15:44 Optimus Prime2 wrote: With his salary for 2h casting a day, anyone would be. Games were super bad and not exciting, Clem just gave up twice in a row with Classic, other series were just a roflstomps. Only real good series was Classic vs ByuN. But even there, it feels like Classic wasn't been playing his full strength with a lead, and gave ByuN too many chances for comeback, so it went 2-0 > 3-2 Lots of emotions on your side, far from objective criticism about games and players. Personally enjoyed some games, also think its good to have tournaments that are not funded by Saudi Blood Money. I agree that the main ask and questions are good to ask, like I said earlier, but you are way to emotional to be taken seriously, sorry. | ||
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Harris1st
Germany6983 Posts
On August 14 2025 15:44 Optimus Prime2 wrote: With his salary for 2h casting a day, anyone would be. Games were super bad and not exciting, Clem just gave up twice in a row with Classic, other series were just a roflstomps. Only real good series was Classic vs ByuN. But even there, it feels like Classic wasn't been playing his full strength with a lead, and gave ByuN too many chances for comeback, so it went 2-0 > 3-2 You think this tournament is a scam because the games were not to your liking? Do you even hear yourself? | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25905 Posts
On August 14 2025 15:44 Optimus Prime2 wrote: With his salary for 2h casting a day, anyone would be. Games were super bad and not exciting, Clem just gave up twice in a row with Classic, other series were just a roflstomps. Only real good series was Classic vs ByuN. But even there, it feels like Classic wasn't been playing his full strength with a lead, and gave ByuN too many chances for comeback, so it went 2-0 > 3-2 Unless they pick a terrible format that makes it so, the actual quality of games really isn’t something one can especially give or take away much credit from tournament organisers | ||
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