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InfCereal
Canada1759 Posts
On March 30 2021 01:45 Crozo64 wrote: No, this happens because right now the API doesnt return stats for EU, that's why the number drop so drastically ( already happened in the past ). Oh that's a good catch. Thought they fixed that  | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12128 Posts
On March 30 2021 01:12 NonY wrote: i think proxy shield batteries should be nerfed. shield batteries are already flagged for being in range of overcharge or not in range of overcharge. make it so being out of range of overcharge reduces the rate of healing and also reduces the efficiency (so same cost but reduce the healing per tick). this would also affect defensive shield batteries on some maps. After offensive pylons we have offensive shield batteries and offensive queens. And Blizzard won't touch the game. They really knew the highest place to leave the game  | ||
NonY
8748 Posts
On March 30 2021 01:58 deacon.frost wrote: After offensive pylons we have offensive shield batteries and offensive queens. And Blizzard won't touch the game. They really knew the highest place to leave the game i think there are some tweaks they could make to help with the game without ruining what's good about the game. the main problem with the game right now is the strategies people are choosing to play. such a high amount of cheese and all-ins. it's not necessarily a problem with the game itself. but some tweaks would change the way people play without drastically changing the game | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland23745 Posts
On March 30 2021 01:12 NonY wrote: i think proxy shield batteries should be nerfed. shield batteries are already flagged for being in range of overcharge or not in range of overcharge. make it so being out of range of overcharge reduces the rate of healing and also reduces the efficiency (so same cost but reduce the healing per tick). this would also affect defensive shield batteries on some maps. That would make sense, you could still employ some aggressive cheeses but the execution difficulty between attacker and defender would be made a bit more forgiving for the latter. Some funky all-ins should be there in an RTS for variety’s sake, so not something I’d want removed entirely by any means. | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12128 Posts
On March 30 2021 02:10 NonY wrote: i think there are some tweaks they could make to help with the game without ruining what's good about the game. the main problem with the game right now is the strategies people are choosing to play. such a high amount of cheese and all-ins. it's not necessarily a problem with the game itself. but some tweaks would change the way people play without drastically changing the game I hope they do. Thanks for the input! | ||
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Monochromatic
United States989 Posts
On March 30 2021 02:10 NonY wrote: i think there are some tweaks they could make to help with the game without ruining what's good about the game. the main problem with the game right now is the strategies people are choosing to play. such a high amount of cheese and all-ins. it's not necessarily a problem with the game itself. but some tweaks would change the way people play without drastically changing the game Do you think more 4 player maps would reduce the amount of cheese? | ||
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LHK
204 Posts
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12128 Posts
On March 30 2021 12:40 Monochromatic wrote: Do you think more 4 player maps would reduce the amount of cheese? 4p maps without forced spawns or revealed spawns IMO create more cheese because scouting is harder. Especially with 12worker start. But I'm not Nony  | ||
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iMECH_KolosS
Canada61 Posts
On March 30 2021 17:28 deacon.frost wrote: 4p maps without forced spawns or revealed spawns IMO create more cheese because scouting is harder. Especially with 12worker start. But I'm not Nony I have to disagree regarding the 4 player map creating more cheeses. To me, the undisclosed starting location inhibits some cheeses depending on map layout and rush distances of course. I think a well designed 4p map will reduce the use of proxy gateways, proxy voids w/shield battery (yes protoss are cheesy bastards sometimes ;-) ) and proxy barracks to name a few. Also, I kind of like the idea the distance to opponent is not the same in cross spawn vs close spawn and could affect harassing options/decisions, much like in broodwar. At least 4p (IMO) makes cheesing more risky for the cheeser I think. For instance, I like the 4 player map Nautilus that replaced submarine in Season 1 of the 2021 GSL. I also liked Frost as a 4 player map and according to liquipedia numbers it seemed to be 50% winrate roughly for each matchup. EDIT: I'm not saying this at it was a defined fact. But I think the game would benefit from putting 4 player maps back into the map pool as the gameplay is a bit different from when they were common on the ladder. If they tried 1 or 2, people could try them out and VETO them if they just don't like them or if they have too much variance. | ||
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Vision_
844 Posts
you only lose about 60 minerals to scout your opponent... That s said 10+ workers with 150 minerals works like a charm and the game would begin 24 seconds sooner. Competitive players could scout their opponent safely. But you know it s hell for commentators to hold on.... | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12128 Posts
On March 30 2021 18:59 iMECH_KolosS wrote: I have to disagree regarding the 4 player map creating more cheeses. To me, the undisclosed starting location inhibits some cheeses depending on map layout and rush distances of course. I think a well designed 4p map will reduce the use of proxy gateways, proxy voids w/shield battery (yes protoss are cheesy bastards sometimes ;-) ) and proxy barracks to name a few. Also, I kind of like the idea the distance to opponent is not the same in cross spawn vs close spawn and could affect harassing options/decisions, much like in broodwar. At least 4p (IMO) makes cheesing more risky for the cheeser I think. For instance, I like the 4 player map Nautilus that replaced submarine in Season 1 of the 2021 GSL. I also liked Frost as a 4 player map and according to liquipedia numbers it seemed to be 50% winrate roughly for each matchup. EDIT: I'm not saying this at it was a defined fact. But I think the game would benefit from putting 4 player maps back into the map pool as the gameplay is a bit different from when they were common on the ladder. If they tried 1 or 2, people could try them out and VETO them if they just don't like them or if they have too much variance. IF we learned anything from the HotS/WoL, than it is that with hidden starting locations we get more cheeses because they're harder to scout. Go check the VODs, you find plenty of random stargates, proxy 2gates and other shit in the middle of map because they can get away with it. These are the builds which are not possible on the 2 player maps because it's easier to scout these. Sure, you won't die to a random 6pool, but still. Also these maps will get more hate on the ladder because of random opponents. Scouting your opponent last with a 12 worker start? Have you tried defending 4gate when you didn't know it's coming and opened the normal way? Aw yeah, didn't think so. Sure, it won't increase the early game cheeses which are about knowing where to build the proxy. But everything else will be on a rise. Edit> want to stress the fact that many proxies from the old era were about betting. You didn't know if the proxy was at the right place, but you hade 66 % chance it is closer to the player than further. So e.g. proxy stargete will still work. Also want to mention even before there were cannon rushes when you send multiple probes. It's more possible nowadays because you have more workers to play with. Yes, it will be a heavy all in, but if it was possible before? (OTOH FFE was a standard opening, so there's a heavy price to pay) Edit2> lol, just joined the Demuslim stream and he's in the middle of balance ranting about Protoss | ||
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iMECH_KolosS
Canada61 Posts
On March 30 2021 20:30 deacon.frost wrote: IF we learned anything from the HotS/WoL, than it is that with hidden starting locations we get more cheeses because they're harder to scout. Go check the VODs, you find plenty of random stargates, proxy 2gates and other shit in the middle of map because they can get away with it. These are the builds which are not possible on the 2 player maps because it's easier to scout these. Sure, you won't die to a random 6pool, but still. Also these maps will get more hate on the ladder because of random opponents. Scouting your opponent last with a 12 worker start? Have you tried defending 4gate when you didn't know it's coming and opened the normal way? Aw yeah, didn't think so. Sure, it won't increase the early game cheeses which are about knowing where to build the proxy. But everything else will be on a rise. Edit> want to stress the fact that many proxies from the old era were about betting. You didn't know if the proxy was at the right place, but you hade 66 % chance it is closer to the player than further. So e.g. proxy stargete will still work. Also want to mention even before there were cannon rushes when you send multiple probes. It's more possible nowadays because you have more workers to play with. Yes, it will be a heavy all in, but if it was possible before? (OTOH FFE was a standard opening, so there's a heavy price to pay) Edit2> lol, just joined the Demuslim stream and he's in the middle of balance ranting about Protoss Well they are indeed the cheesiest bunch hahaha! Totally biased. | ||
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Legan
Finland320 Posts
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12128 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
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Kabasos
6 Posts
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Sprog
New Zealand83 Posts
On March 29 2021 07:08 Beelzebub1 wrote: Ultimately I do agree to a point, a small balance patch here and there to tone down some obviously OP units like the Lurker probably wouldn't be for the worst imo Really wouldn't even mind Bile not negating FF either, seems like a thing that sounded great when LOTV came out and now it's just too strong and invalidates the sentry too much. I like your suggestions of looking at the Ravager / Sentry FF interaction. A sentry upgrade FF/energy upgrade at the TC? In general cloaked splash damage is a bit too strong as well IMO. Given how potent they are in mineral lines the mine burrow speed should be a little slower without drilling claws. Don't mine the positional aspect of them, they should be punishable if you have units in position when medivacs fly over and drop them in your mineral lines... | ||
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NonY
8748 Posts
On March 31 2021 04:21 Kabasos wrote: Why should Nathanias be involved in Map Rotation? most prominent community members have known someone at blizzard, and/or they know other people who know people, etc. but i think so many people have left blizzard at this point that the connections people had are all gone. afaik apollo is the only one to hint at anything at this point. there must be a much smaller social circle "in the loop" at this point than at any other point in sc2 | ||
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IMSupervisor
Australia138 Posts
On March 31 2021 04:21 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Note that while Blizz/ESL/TL have been discussing this for a while now, and getting some input from various parties about the "competitive map pool", what's happening with the ladder pool is still quite unclear (and might involve different people at the Blizzard end). I'd be very (unpleasantly) surprised if they had the ladder pool be different to the competitive map pool, as the whole idea is to have viewers able go and play on the same maps they see on stream, and players able to tune in and watch pros on the same maps they play on, plus they want the top guys playing ladder too instead of only playing custom games on the maps they actually need to learn. | ||
Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
On March 31 2021 09:28 IMSupervisor wrote: I'd be very (unpleasantly) surprised if they had the ladder pool be different to the competitive map pool, as the whole idea is to have viewers able go and play on the same maps they see on stream, and players able to tune in and watch pros on the same maps they play on, plus they want the top guys playing ladder too instead of only playing custom games on the maps they actually need to learn. Yeah. Unfortunately at this point it's not impossible imo, but it's extremely unlikely. | ||
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