EPTGSL vs. The World: Team Korea Vote (2019) - Page 18
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Linaas
3 Posts
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Elentos
55553 Posts
On July 28 2019 22:34 Linaas wrote: inno plays so bad this year, I don't think he deserves a position He played worse last year and easily won the vote then. He's just very popular. | ||
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fronkschnonk
Germany622 Posts
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DieuCure
France3713 Posts
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Kalera
United States338 Posts
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DieuCure
France3713 Posts
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On July 28 2019 21:17 fronkschnonk wrote: The problem is: you're comparing a potential scenario with a tournament that actually happened - 3 times in this format over the course of 3 years. Also, from those players making it into GSL Ro16 in 2017/18/19 Special and Neeb are matching with the ones being capable of reaching IEM top16 (the only other ones being Scarlett and Reynor). We also had multiple times with no foreigner appearance at all in GSL Ro16, despite almost always some strong players participating. I'm not saying that the foreigners we'll have at GSLvsWorld wouldn't be capable of reaching GSL Ro16 at all but experience shows that they don't perform that well at the same time. The list of potential Ro16 players is just still so much deeper in South Korea that it's just not very likely that more than 2-4 foreigners would make it in there - as IEM has demonstrated multiple times. Also the foreigners we saw in GSL Ro16 and further are also candidates who made it into the top16 of IEM What IEM shows is only that foreigners don't perform well at the tournament for some reason(s); BlizzCon's results sayotherwise(yes, they qualify separately but I will never cease repeating some results just can't happen if there is a very big skill cap) and actually in Code S itself we see foreigners perform better than we could predict if we only consider IEM. Scarlett in top shape went to ro8, Special in good shape is making ro16 on a regular basis; which are those other strong players failing to get to ro16 you mention? Elazer in 2018? I cannot stress enough how the majority of the most competitive WCS players do not even try to qualify for Code S, I think your estimation of two or three foreigners in one ideal Code S ro16 is too restrictive. Coming to GSL vs the World, I agree with your idea that people should vote for players of all of three races. | ||
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MrFreeman
207 Posts
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fronkschnonk
Germany622 Posts
Blizzcon doesn't have an open qualification process. It's not featuring the currently best players as some of'em are qualified via pointgathering without ever performing great or by successes long before the actual tournament. Also Blizzcon has a 8/16 foreigner rate per definition which makes chances for foreigners much higher as the participating player pool of Koreans isn't as deep as if it was an open tournament. Other strong players not qualifying for GSL Ro16? Well, Scarlett and Special multiple times which stresses my point: they're capable of making Ro16 but it's also not surprising if not. The only thing that could make it easier for foreigner in GSL compared to IEM is the greater amount of grid luck in the qualifiers. In qualifiers for IEM one has to potentially compete against the whole player field in every online qualifier and the offline qualifier brackets are much bigger and double elim from the beginning. Also Ro32 group stage can go quite lucky while one has to compete vs 5 other players in IEM group stage. | ||
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StarcraftSquall
United States196 Posts
FanTaSy has accumulated 1,100. This is the 40th best. The only players to accumulate more in the same time period: Serral, Dark, Maru, Classic, INnoVation and soO. If you’re in the top ten overall there’s absolutely no reason you should be left out here. NONE. That is all. This would be the equivalent of Reynor not getting a seed on the Circuit side, it’s that bad of a look. | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On July 29 2019 00:38 fronkschnonk wrote: @Xainon Blizzcon doesn't have an open qualification process. It's not featuring the currently best players as some of'em are qualified via pointgathering without ever performing great or by successes long before the actual tournament. Also Blizzcon has a 8/16 foreigner rate per definition which makes chances for foreigners much higher as the participating player pool of Koreans isn't as deep as if it was an open tournament. Other strong players not qualifying for GSL Ro16? Well, Scarlett and Special multiple times which stresses my point: they're capable of making Ro16 but it's also not surprising if not. The only thing that could make it easier for foreigner in GSL compared to IEM is the greater amount of grid luck in the qualifiers. In qualifiers for IEM one has to potentially compete against the whole player field in every online qualifier and the offline qualifier brackets are much bigger and double elim from the beginning. Also Ro32 group stage can go quite lucky while one has to compete vs 5 other players in IEM group stage. You can have inferior players seeded in exceeding number and they still won't win(see foreigners vs koreans during the entire HOTS expansion). If you really believe there are two foreigners in World's top 16 entirely based on IEM(a tournament that comes very early in the season and that either sees very few foreigners qualifying or foreigners underperforming after having qualified), it's fine, but you won't convince me that mirrors the truth since the indications coming from other cross region tournaments are marginally or substantially better, there is no way out. Even strong koreans don't always make ro16 in Code S. | ||
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Elentos
55553 Posts
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On July 29 2019 02:25 Elentos wrote: The Terran poll now has more votes than any of the Korean votes had last year. But can it catch up to the Brazilian CS:GO voting numbers? How many votes did the brazilian madness produce? | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15973 Posts
On July 29 2019 00:52 Xain0n wrote: You can have inferior players seeded in exceeding number and they still won't win(see foreigners vs koreans during the entire HOTS expansion). If you really believe there are two foreigners in World's top 16 entirely based on IEM(a tournament that comes very early in the season and that either sees very few foreigners qualifying or foreigners underperforming after having qualified), it's fine, but you won't convince me that mirrors the truth since the indications coming from other cross region tournaments are marginally or substantially better, there is no way out. Even strong koreans don't always make ro16 in Code S. So foreigners just happened to underperform at IEM Katowice 3 years in a row? | ||
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Elentos
55553 Posts
On July 29 2019 02:35 Xain0n wrote: How many votes did the brazilian madness produce? Over 11k. There was a super close race between uThermal and Heromarine going on and then Kelazhur beat them by over 4000 votes  | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On July 29 2019 02:35 Charoisaur wrote: So foreigners just happened to underperform at IEM Katowice 3 years in a row? Either this or they overperformed almost everywhere else, choose the one you prefer. | ||
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JJH777
United States4409 Posts
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Poopi
France12894 Posts
On July 29 2019 02:39 Elentos wrote: Over 11k. There was a super close race between uThermal and Heromarine going on and then Kelazhur beat them by over 4000 votes Only to get 3-0ed by Serral. Fantasy will probably know a similar fate if he manages to get in by votes. As for Trap, it depends on when the patch hits I guess? He has a lot more chances than fantasy anyways. | ||
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KalWarkov
Germany4126 Posts
looks like TY / Innovation / Fantasy / Stats / soO will make it though | ||
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StarcraftSquall
United States196 Posts
Voting for Trap means you put more emphasis on good results in offline tournaments that actually matter to the majority of the SC2 fan base Voting for FanTaSy means you put more emphasis on streaming popularity even if they have no solid results in offline events to back it up during the year, you’re interested in a popularity contest. I am not voting for Trap because I am a fan of his, not because he is a Protoss or because I’m annoyed with some Terran fans whining: i genuinely believe he should be there above everyone else in the voting process except soO. I want to see results get rewarded, especially for someone who has been trying to break through for years and finally has a resume to warrant, and really demand inclusion. (I kind of feel if he didn’t play Toss his campaign wouldn’t be so scrutinized - I am a little surprised Maru hasn’t gone to bat for him more yet considering they are teammates.) Simply put I want the players having the best seasons to play. If the resumes were reversed I’d be arguing for FanTaSy just as hard. But it’s Trap’s year as far as I’m concerned. He deserves this shot. Who knows what will happen next year? | ||
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