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On July 29 2019 03:52 Poopi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2019 02:39 Elentos wrote:On July 29 2019 02:35 Xain0n wrote:On July 29 2019 02:25 Elentos wrote:
The Terran poll now has more votes than any of the Korean votes had last year. But can it catch up to the Brazilian CS:GO voting numbers? How many votes did the brazilian madness produce? Over 11k. There was a super close race between uThermal and Heromarine going on and then Kelazhur beat them by over 4000 votes  Only to get 3-0ed by Serral. Fantasy will probably know a similar fate if he manages to get in by votes. As for Trap, it depends on when the patch hits I guess? He has a lot more chances than fantasy anyways.
To be fair last year Kelazhur played better against Serral than Inno did.
On a serious note Fantasy stands a good chance of being able to lose to any foreigner in Team World should he get voted in.
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So what the hell is going on here? I did not really pay attention to this until it has been brought to my attention that Fantasy is in the running. How is that even possible, the guy is literally irrelevant in sc2 ...
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On July 29 2019 04:26 opisska wrote:
So what the hell is going on here? I did not really pay attention to this until it has been brought to my attention that Fantasy is in the running. How is that even possible, the guy is literally irrelevant in sc2 ...
People and Fantasy himself want to see him lose to foreigners, because that's what gonna happen.
(also he has quite big and loyal fanbase)
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People can't even vote intelligently in real elections, what's so surprising about this video game election?
If Fantasy wins, it means more people like him. Popularity is not the same as competence. But popularity is what decides victory. Vote for whomever you choose, everyone else votes for whonever they choose, and let the most popular choice win. That's just how democracy works.
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France12907 Posts
On July 29 2019 04:26 opisska wrote:
So what the hell is going on here? I did not really pay attention to this until it has been brought to my attention that Fantasy is in the running. How is that even possible, the guy is literally irrelevant in sc2 ...
He is not really irrelevant, his level is probably a bit above the average level of the World crew coming to this event.
If he is there there'll be probably more close matches between koreans and foreigners so it's not that bad, but he is not as good as Trap this year for sure.
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On July 29 2019 00:52 Xain0n wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2019 00:38 fronkschnonk wrote:
@Xainon
Blizzcon doesn't have an open qualification process. It's not featuring the currently best players as some of'em are qualified via pointgathering without ever performing great or by successes long before the actual tournament. Also Blizzcon has a 8/16 foreigner rate per definition which makes chances for foreigners much higher as the participating player pool of Koreans isn't as deep as if it was an open tournament.
Other strong players not qualifying for GSL Ro16? Well, Scarlett and Special multiple times which stresses my point: they're capable of making Ro16 but it's also not surprising if not.
The only thing that could make it easier for foreigner in GSL compared to IEM is the greater amount of grid luck in the qualifiers. In qualifiers for IEM one has to potentially compete against the whole player field in every online qualifier and the offline qualifier brackets are much bigger and double elim from the beginning. Also Ro32 group stage can go quite lucky while one has to compete vs 5 other players in IEM group stage. You can have inferior players seeded in exceeding number and they still won't win(see foreigners vs koreans during the entire HOTS expansion). If you really believe there are two foreigners in World's top 16 entirely based on IEM(a tournament that comes very early in the season and that either sees very few foreigners qualifying or foreigners underperforming after having qualified), it's fine, but you won't convince me that mirrors the truth since the indications coming from other cross region tournaments are marginally or substantially better, there is no way out. Even strong koreans don't always make ro16 in Code S.
But I'm not talking about inferior players per se. We do have quite some foreigners who can compete vs top Koreans, but: most of them on a very unconsistent level. Also, the amount of evenly high skilled players from Korea is still that much higher that the probability of foreigners getting into a Ro16 in high numbers isn't that high - assuming an open qualifying process.
Your arguments about IEM are ... weird:
Why should "early in the season" mean anything? And how would you like to differentiate this between foreigners and Koreans? That's just guesswork.
Foreigners are not underperforming at IEM. Most of them show respectable results by taking some matches also against strong Koreans. Not getting into top16 doesn't mean one has a bad performance.
The "indications coming from other cross region tournaments" are hardly usable data as those tournaments are "rigged". from the get go. The difference in the qualification process is substantial because even if all the 8 foreigners were Ro16 material skill wise (which I doubt) they wouldn't have all qualified via open quailifiers because of the laws of stochastics, considering the much greater amount of "Ro16 material"-Koreans.
It also doesn't matter that "even strong koreans don't always make ro16 in Code S" because there are enough other strong Koreans to step in.
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On July 29 2019 05:20 Poopi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2019 04:26 opisska wrote:
So what the hell is going on here? I did not really pay attention to this until it has been brought to my attention that Fantasy is in the running. How is that even possible, the guy is literally irrelevant in sc2 ... He is not really irrelevant, his level is probably a bit above the average level of the World crew coming to this event. If he is there there'll be probably more close matches between koreans and foreigners so it's not that bad, but he is not as good as Trap this year for sure.
Well, he's the weakest Korean, he's not a Code S RO8 material player(while being at the group A may result in an advancement) and he's the weakest Korean there and that's not in the measurement that he's 8th best Korean. I dare to say he's the 5th weakest player of the tournament if the foreigner polls ends in the current state. And that's mostly because I have no clue how's Fanta's, Heromarine's and μThermal's TvT and I placed Fanta above them.
Edit> screw it, i'm not rewriting it and yes, I write as an idiot
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There are four foreigners that can compete with the Koreans without any debate:
Serral, Reynor, Neeb and SpeCial. They have proven this. The foreign scene is much stronger than it used to be and also has the strongest player in the world in Serral.
Another reason to vote Trap’s competence: last year’s IEM he may have been the closest player to take out Serral in a Bo5 for the entire season. He really is showing he’s that good. Stats is going to win the Korean Protoss vote it looks like but I would argue Trap is doing even better than him.
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On July 29 2019 05:33 fronkschnonk wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2019 00:52 Xain0n wrote:On July 29 2019 00:38 fronkschnonk wrote:
@Xainon
Blizzcon doesn't have an open qualification process. It's not featuring the currently best players as some of'em are qualified via pointgathering without ever performing great or by successes long before the actual tournament. Also Blizzcon has a 8/16 foreigner rate per definition which makes chances for foreigners much higher as the participating player pool of Koreans isn't as deep as if it was an open tournament.
Other strong players not qualifying for GSL Ro16? Well, Scarlett and Special multiple times which stresses my point: they're capable of making Ro16 but it's also not surprising if not.
The only thing that could make it easier for foreigner in GSL compared to IEM is the greater amount of grid luck in the qualifiers. In qualifiers for IEM one has to potentially compete against the whole player field in every online qualifier and the offline qualifier brackets are much bigger and double elim from the beginning. Also Ro32 group stage can go quite lucky while one has to compete vs 5 other players in IEM group stage. You can have inferior players seeded in exceeding number and they still won't win(see foreigners vs koreans during the entire HOTS expansion). If you really believe there are two foreigners in World's top 16 entirely based on IEM(a tournament that comes very early in the season and that either sees very few foreigners qualifying or foreigners underperforming after having qualified), it's fine, but you won't convince me that mirrors the truth since the indications coming from other cross region tournaments are marginally or substantially better, there is no way out. Even strong koreans don't always make ro16 in Code S. But I'm not talking about inferior players per se. We do have quite some foreigners who can compete vs top Koreans, but: most of them on a very unconsistent level. Also, the amount of evenly high skilled players from Korea is still that much higher that the probability of foreigners getting into a Ro16 in high numbers isn't that high - assuming an open qualifying process. Your arguments about IEM are ... weird: Why should "early in the season" mean anything? And how would you like to differentiate this between foreigners and Koreans? That's just guesswork. Foreigners are not underperforming at IEM. Most of them show respectable results by taking some matches also against strong Koreans. Not getting into top16 doesn't mean one has a bad performance. The "indications coming from other cross region tournaments" are hardly usable data as those tournaments are "rigged". from the get go. The difference in the qualification process is substantial because even if all the 8 foreigners were Ro16 material skill wise (which I doubt) they wouldn't have all qualified via open quailifiers because of the laws of stochastics, considering the much greater amount of "Ro16 material"-Koreans. It also doesn't matter that "even strong koreans don't always make ro16 in Code S" because there are enough other strong Koreans to step in.
The fact is that foreigners perform worse in IEM Katowice than they do in other tournaments(we should actually look at numbers because I am under the impression the winrate itself is lower, not just the raw number of non koreans qualifying to the event or getting to the ro16). You say it's because IEM has the best qualifying system and that exposes foreigners' weaknesses(are you implying IEM is a better tournament than Code S? You seriously risk to be condemned for heresy, be wary ;') while I think there must be another explanation(considering foreigners in LoTV have generally performed better against koreans in other tournaments); the fact that, in a not unified meta with separated ladder, IEM being the first international tournament played on a new patch after months of isolation MIGHT be a factor; I never claimed this IS the truth and I don't know exactly why it should favor koreans, it just does if we accept my hypothesis.
I am not trying nor I have ever tried to adverse your statement that eight foreigners in the ro16 would be an unlikely occasion given the superior density of high level korean players; I am more concerned about statements regarding their level of skill, so if that the best eight players in WCS(a lineup pretty close to the one that's going to this event) are a suitable or decent approximation of the #9-#16 players of GSL, or that, with a certain single combination of events(and, as such, pretty unlikely), we could see a Code S with the same lineup as this GSL vs The World.
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On July 29 2019 07:00 StarcraftSquall wrote:
There are four foreigners that can compete with the Koreans without any debate:
Serral, Reynor, Neeb and SpeCial. They have proven this. The foreign scene is much stronger than it used to be and also has the strongest player in the world in Serral.
Another reason to vote Trap’s competence: last year’s IEM he may have been the closest player to take out Serral in a Bo5 for the entire season. He really is showing he’s that good. Stats is going to win the Korean Protoss vote it looks like but I would argue Trap is doing even better than him.
Trap is doing great but if you are talking about defeating Serral at the tournament, Stats has better score than anyone else against him (he even 2-0 Serral at HomeStory Cup)
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If you vote for both FanTaSy and Trap, that’s not solving the issue at this point.
Last two hours had 24 FanTaSy votes and only 11 Trap votes.
The SC2 Community can do better. Plus, if you don’t for Trap (or you cast votes for FanTasy) you’ll be disappointing his teammate, Maru, Terran fans... 😬 do you really want that? 👀
We need more Trap votes without FanTaSy votes to make it happen.
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Here’s a wide picture update:
(Barring any sudden massive changes aka Kelazhur 2018):
Korea Terran: TY seems to be safely in first.
Korea Zerg: soO is running away and hiding.
Korea Protoss: Stats has a sizable but not insurmountable lead.
Korea Wildcard: This is the point of contention. INnoVation appears he will get one spot if he doesn’t catch TY. The second card is between Trap and FanTaSy.
World Terran: HeRoMaRinE. You can stop.
World Zerg: Reynor is dominating the votes, to nobody’s surprise.
World Protoss: ShoWTimE. You can stop here as well.
World Wildcard: Scarlett has more than twice the votes of the 2nd contender. This race also appears to be over.
In short, we’re pretty much locked except for the second 🇰🇷 Wildcard.
(I urge people to vote for Trap and not FanTaSy personally - not because I am against or for either player but simply it’s the right thing to do. It’s like Neeb or Reynor being voted out by Future on the World side.)
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Vote trap for a better chance at a non-ZvZ finals.
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On July 29 2019 12:35 StarcraftSquall wrote:
Here’s a wide picture update:
(Barring any sudden massive changes aka Kelazhur 2018):
Korea Terran: TY seems to be safely in first.
Korea Zerg: soO is running away and hiding.
Korea Protoss: Stats has a sizable but not insurmountable lead.
Korea Wildcard: This is the point of contention. INnoVation appears he will get one spot if he doesn’t catch TY. The second card is between Trap and FanTaSy.
World Terran: HeRoMaRinE. You can stop.
World Zerg: Reynor is dominating the votes, to nobody’s surprise.
World Protoss: ShoWTimE. You can stop here as well.
World Wildcard: Scarlett has more than twice the votes of the 2nd contender. This race also appears to be over.
In short, we’re pretty much locked except for the second 🇰🇷 Wildcard.
(I urge people to vote for Trap and not FanTaSy personally - not because I am against or for either player but simply it’s the right thing to do. It’s like Neeb or Reynor being voted out by Future on the World side.)
Dude, you've made about a dozen posts about the exact same thing. I think everyone gets the idea.
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Dude, you've made about a dozen posts about the exact same thing. I think everyone gets the idea.
I know, maybe it is just because I am finding this really upsetting. 😢 I dunno why I care this much about it, but I do.
(It could also be because I’m stuck in a box at work and have been doing almost nothing besides watching the Poll go the wrong way for the last 3.5 hours 😬)
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On July 29 2019 13:37 StarcraftSquall wrote:Show nested quote + Dude, you've made about a dozen posts about the exact same thing. I think everyone gets the idea. I know, maybe it is just because I am finding this really upsetting. 😢 I dunno why I care this much about it, but I do. (It could also be because I’m stuck in a box at work and have been doing almost nothing besides watching the Poll go the wrong way for the last 3.5 hours 😬)
If you're stuck there, why not watch some streams instead? The foreign teamhouse just wrapped up their 24h stream, but there are plenty others still on right now.
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If you're stuck there, why not watch some streams instead? The foreign teamhouse just wrapped up their 24h stream, but there are plenty others still on right now.
That only works on unlimited data plans. 😬 Btw FanTaSy is offering bonuses to people who vote him in: i was wondering how he was getting so many votes all of a sudden. I’ll post a count between the two in question at the top of the hour.
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On July 29 2019 12:35 StarcraftSquall wrote:
Here’s a wide picture update:
(Barring any sudden massive changes aka Kelazhur 2018):
Korea Terran: TY seems to be safely in first.
Korea Zerg: soO is running away and hiding.
Korea Protoss: Stats has a sizable but not insurmountable lead.
Korea Wildcard: This is the point of contention. INnoVation appears he will get one spot if he doesn’t catch TY. The second card is between Trap and FanTaSy.
World Terran: HeRoMaRinE. You can stop.
World Zerg: Reynor is dominating the votes, to nobody’s surprise.
World Protoss: ShoWTimE. You can stop here as well.
World Wildcard: Scarlett has more than twice the votes of the 2nd contender. This race also appears to be over.
In short, we’re pretty much locked except for the second 🇰🇷 Wildcard.
(I urge people to vote for Trap and not FanTaSy personally - not because I am against or for either player but simply it’s the right thing to do. It’s like Neeb or Reynor being voted out by Future on the World side.)
Thanks. Voted for Fantasy
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On July 29 2019 14:42 StarcraftSquall wrote:Show nested quote +
If you're stuck there, why not watch some streams instead? The foreign teamhouse just wrapped up their 24h stream, but there are plenty others still on right now.
That only works on unlimited data plans. 😬 Btw FanTaSy is offering bonuses to people who vote him in: i was wondering how he was getting so many votes all of a sudden. I’ll post a count between the two in question at the top of the hour.
Fantasy is buying votes?
........
I love democracy.
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In the past five hours between the two in question:
FanTaSy received 85 new votes.
Trap received 29 new votes.
FanTaSy gained a net of 56 votes since 6 PM PDT.
That seems like an awful lot of votes in a very short period of time. 👀
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EPT
