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On August 25 2017 20:13 Simberto wrote:
I don't really understand this "wanting skins to show to your opponent is sick!!!!" argument. People like to have shiny stuff, and have people look at the shiny stuff they have. This is not seen as weird when you are talking about jewelry, a dress, a car, first edition signed books, a complete collection of all transformers ever made, or basically anything else. Why is it weird in video games?
And there are a lot of people who want skins to show off a bit. That is one of the main reasons people buy skins. And that means that there will never be an option to disable skins, because the people who pay for them want the other to see them, and would buy less of them if others couldn't see them. This is the reason that no game that has skins that you can buy has an ability to disable them.
Now, this is a lot less problematic in a F2P game obviously. I am not the biggest fan of the full price + skins + ... constant customer milking model.
Because collecting physical stuff in the real world is a completely different thing compared to virtual stuff with artifical scarcity. And noone technically forces me to look at you while you cruise by in your Ferrari 
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Maybe we could get some micro transitions to handle this.
Disable your opponents skin: 9.95$
Extra map veto: 19.95$
Call down 300 extra minerals: 4.95$
Change loss to win: 9.95$
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On August 25 2017 20:13 Simberto wrote:
I don't really understand this "wanting skins to show to your opponent is sick!!!!" argument. People like to have shiny stuff, and have people look at the shiny stuff they have. This is not seen as weird when you are talking about jewelry, a dress, a car, first edition signed books, a complete collection of all transformers ever made, or basically anything else. Why is it weird in video games?
And there are a lot of people who want skins to show off a bit. That is one of the main reasons people buy skins. And that means that there will never be an option to disable skins, because the people who pay for them want the other to see them, and would buy less of them if others couldn't see them. This is the reason that no game that has skins that you can buy has an ability to disable them.
Now, this is a lot less problematic in a F2P game obviously. I am not the biggest fan of the full price + skins + ... constant customer milking model.
But the thing I don't understand is why do you want to force your opponent to see them if he doesn't want to see it.
The people that might think your skins look cool won't turn them off even with this option. You can still show off to them. The only people wanting to turn them off are those who are annoyed by them. Why do you want them to see the skins when they just find it annoying? To be a dick?
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On August 25 2017 20:13 Simberto wrote:
I don't really understand this "wanting skins to show to your opponent is sick!!!!" argument. People like to have shiny stuff, and have people look at the shiny stuff they have. This is not seen as weird when you are talking about jewelry, a dress, a car, first edition signed books, a complete collection of all transformers ever made, or basically anything else. Why is it weird in video games?
And there are a lot of people who want skins to show off a bit. That is one of the main reasons people buy skins. And that means that there will never be an option to disable skins, because the people who pay for them want the other to see them, and would buy less of them if others couldn't see them. This is the reason that no game that has skins that you can buy has an ability to disable them.
Now, this is a lot less problematic in a F2P game obviously. I am not the biggest fan of the full price + skins + ... constant customer milking model.
Exactly this. I think like half the reason people buy skins is to show them off, even if they won't acknowledge this (with the other half obviously being they themselves also enjoying how cool they look).
Guys, believe me, people at Blizzard aren't stupid. Also, they can read, so they probably know what the community thinks about skins. If they don't implement an option to disable skins, it's not because it never occured to them that some people would like such an option, but because they choose not to, for whatever reason. And that reason so far has probably been a fear of decreasing skin sale, which I find totally acceptable.
The solution would be, in my opinion, to leave the characteristic colors, shapes and size of units mostly unchanged, so it doesn't cause confusion.
As far as the "full price + skins + ... constant customer milking model" is concerned, I know it's probably not a very constructive answer, but really, you don't have to buy skins if you don't want to (seeing the opponents' skins is another quesion of course). I don't see how introducing new skins, announcer packs, emoticons or even co-op commanders for money counts as milking. They are pushing out a lot of content for us, it's only fair if we have to pay for it in return, in my opinion. Also, as others have stated, microtransactions is the very model a lot of players were asking for.
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option to disable those bad skins is needed ASAP. agree with OP. there is a reason they are not allowed in GSL e.g.
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On August 25 2017 21:49 africola wrote:
option to disable those bad skins is needed ASAP. agree with OP. there is a reason they are not allowed in GSL e.g.
yes the reason is they are disabled when IT ACTUALLY MATTERS... noone cares about ur 10 ladder points 
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On August 25 2017 19:35 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2017 18:33 PharaphobiaSC wrote:
There is not a single game which allows you to turn of skins.. and dont give that SC:R bullshit beucase all that shuts off is MAIN BUILDING SKIN, which is literally the most ignored and least watched building in the game...
So there goes mr. obvious fact...: Why on earth would you pay an art team to make skins and than implementing an option to shut them off? Tournaments do that for a reason, because (and i said that like 4 times already) it matters nowhere else than there....
So there goes typical StarCraft community reaction "fcing blizz cash grab everything costs money and its bad" yet they finally make some profit back from years of investment.... and you are sitting here as a diamond player playing ladder for fun acting like few black stalkers and immortals are ruining the game...
Idk its just sad... The sad thing are those *** who want to force their opponent to see something they don't want to see. There is zero harm to implementing an option to turn off skins. The only people who want to disable them are players who are annoyed by them and if you want to force them to see them anyway you're just a *** who wants to ruin others gaming experience.
I bough skins, and I use then when i want... yesterday i played with stock skins... few years ago i bough an stock 97 Supra and I drove stock and noone cares... today its fully moded 650HP non stock car and girls love it and guys wants to have it too... You see the pattern here?
U can use it whenever you want, but it generates attention and potenional money to run this damn WCS so you can watch ur pros on streams competing....
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On August 25 2017 21:56 PharaphobiaSC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2017 19:35 Charoisaur wrote:On August 25 2017 18:33 PharaphobiaSC wrote:
There is not a single game which allows you to turn of skins.. and dont give that SC:R bullshit beucase all that shuts off is MAIN BUILDING SKIN, which is literally the most ignored and least watched building in the game...
So there goes mr. obvious fact...: Why on earth would you pay an art team to make skins and than implementing an option to shut them off? Tournaments do that for a reason, because (and i said that like 4 times already) it matters nowhere else than there....
So there goes typical StarCraft community reaction "fcing blizz cash grab everything costs money and its bad" yet they finally make some profit back from years of investment.... and you are sitting here as a diamond player playing ladder for fun acting like few black stalkers and immortals are ruining the game...
Idk its just sad... The sad thing are those *** who want to force their opponent to see something they don't want to see. There is zero harm to implementing an option to turn off skins. The only people who want to disable them are players who are annoyed by them and if you want to force them to see them anyway you're just a *** who wants to ruin others gaming experience. I bough skins, and I use then when i want... yesterday i played with stock skins... few years ago i bough an stock 97 Supra and I drove stock and noone cares... today its fully moded 650HP non stock car and girls love it and guys wants to have it too... You see the pattern here?
Do you have a very small penis?
User was warned for this post
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On August 25 2017 22:06 Creager wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2017 21:56 PharaphobiaSC wrote:On August 25 2017 19:35 Charoisaur wrote:On August 25 2017 18:33 PharaphobiaSC wrote:
There is not a single game which allows you to turn of skins.. and dont give that SC:R bullshit beucase all that shuts off is MAIN BUILDING SKIN, which is literally the most ignored and least watched building in the game...
So there goes mr. obvious fact...: Why on earth would you pay an art team to make skins and than implementing an option to shut them off? Tournaments do that for a reason, because (and i said that like 4 times already) it matters nowhere else than there....
So there goes typical StarCraft community reaction "fcing blizz cash grab everything costs money and its bad" yet they finally make some profit back from years of investment.... and you are sitting here as a diamond player playing ladder for fun acting like few black stalkers and immortals are ruining the game...
Idk its just sad... The sad thing are those *** who want to force their opponent to see something they don't want to see. There is zero harm to implementing an option to turn off skins. The only people who want to disable them are players who are annoyed by them and if you want to force them to see them anyway you're just a *** who wants to ruin others gaming experience. I bough skins, and I use then when i want... yesterday i played with stock skins... few years ago i bough an stock 97 Supra and I drove stock and noone cares... today its fully moded 650HP non stock car and girls love it and guys wants to have it too... You see the pattern here? Do you have a very small penis?
Nice bait, however im justa guy who likes StarCraft and loves modding cars as a hobby ^.^, but the thing i wanted to say that you want show things off to motivate other to go for it...
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On August 25 2017 22:38 PharaphobiaSC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2017 22:06 Creager wrote:On August 25 2017 21:56 PharaphobiaSC wrote:On August 25 2017 19:35 Charoisaur wrote:On August 25 2017 18:33 PharaphobiaSC wrote:
There is not a single game which allows you to turn of skins.. and dont give that SC:R bullshit beucase all that shuts off is MAIN BUILDING SKIN, which is literally the most ignored and least watched building in the game...
So there goes mr. obvious fact...: Why on earth would you pay an art team to make skins and than implementing an option to shut them off? Tournaments do that for a reason, because (and i said that like 4 times already) it matters nowhere else than there....
So there goes typical StarCraft community reaction "fcing blizz cash grab everything costs money and its bad" yet they finally make some profit back from years of investment.... and you are sitting here as a diamond player playing ladder for fun acting like few black stalkers and immortals are ruining the game...
Idk its just sad... The sad thing are those *** who want to force their opponent to see something they don't want to see. There is zero harm to implementing an option to turn off skins. The only people who want to disable them are players who are annoyed by them and if you want to force them to see them anyway you're just a *** who wants to ruin others gaming experience. I bough skins, and I use then when i want... yesterday i played with stock skins... few years ago i bough an stock 97 Supra and I drove stock and noone cares... today its fully moded 650HP non stock car and girls love it and guys wants to have it too... You see the pattern here? Do you have a very small penis? Nice bait, however im justa guy who likes StarCraft and loves modding cars as a hobby ^.^, but the thing i wanted to say that you want show things off to motivate other to go for it...
Well, I guess most people posting here like StarCraft, but for different reasons. Some people simply won't get motivated to buy skins when seeing them, maybe even the opposite, so where's the harm giving those people the choice to opt-out of seeing them? I mean, you wouldn't even know, unless they show you some kind of message like:
"Your opponent unfortunately has custom skins disabled, so he won't be able to appreciate how much additional money you put into the game. Really, fuck this guy!"
For example, I play on lowest settings only with effects and textures on ultra, not because my system can't handle it, but because I don't want distracting things and eyecandy, just the best possible perfomance for competitive play, and for me skins kinda undermine that.
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Lets see if people agree:
1. Skins "can" be disruptive in a game where you are trying to operate at high apm.
2. Having the option to disable skins of your opponent diminishes the incentive of having those skins (for those who want to show their different skin to their opponent),thus reduces the overall % of people buying skins.
3. Blizzard created skins "in the first place" or, "with the purpose" of making a revenue from those skins.
4. It would be against Blizzard's economical interest to allow a player to disable skins.
Am I forgetting something? (as a side note I have been playing Heros of the storm for a while for fun and after around 300 games I still mistake heros because of skins. Like, i will literally think it is a different hero because of how it looks).
When the concept of monetaization or revenue of a company direct collides with the interests of the players one of two things can happen:
1. The company finds a different way to monetize the game.
2. The players leave the game once its something they dont want to play.
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skin isnt problem here for me but teh color
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On August 25 2017 23:18 iloveav wrote:
Lets see if people agree:
1. Skins "can" be disruptive in a game where you are trying to operate at high apm.
2. Having the option to disable skins of your opponent diminishes the incentive of having those skins (for those who want to show their different skin to their opponent),thus reduces the overall % of people buying skins.
3. Blizzard created skins "in the first place" or, "with the purpose" of making a revenue from those skins.
4. It would be against Blizzard's economical interest to allow a player to disable skins.
Am I forgetting something? (as a side note I have been playing Heros of the storm for a while for fun and after around 300 games I still mistake heros because of skins. Like, i will literally think it is a different hero because of how it looks).
When the concept of monetaization or revenue of a company direct collides with the interests of the players one of two things can happen:
1. The company finds a different way to monetize the game.
2. The players leave the game once its something they dont want to play.
Good points, but you forget that skins aren't the only items they sell, there are also announcer packs, co-op commanders, additional singleplayer content, so players who enjoy those, but not skins could be turned away from the game, resulting in loss of potential revenue, as well.
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On August 25 2017 22:38 PharaphobiaSC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2017 22:06 Creager wrote:On August 25 2017 21:56 PharaphobiaSC wrote:On August 25 2017 19:35 Charoisaur wrote:On August 25 2017 18:33 PharaphobiaSC wrote:
There is not a single game which allows you to turn of skins.. and dont give that SC:R bullshit beucase all that shuts off is MAIN BUILDING SKIN, which is literally the most ignored and least watched building in the game...
So there goes mr. obvious fact...: Why on earth would you pay an art team to make skins and than implementing an option to shut them off? Tournaments do that for a reason, because (and i said that like 4 times already) it matters nowhere else than there....
So there goes typical StarCraft community reaction "fcing blizz cash grab everything costs money and its bad" yet they finally make some profit back from years of investment.... and you are sitting here as a diamond player playing ladder for fun acting like few black stalkers and immortals are ruining the game...
Idk its just sad... The sad thing are those *** who want to force their opponent to see something they don't want to see. There is zero harm to implementing an option to turn off skins. The only people who want to disable them are players who are annoyed by them and if you want to force them to see them anyway you're just a *** who wants to ruin others gaming experience. I bough skins, and I use then when i want... yesterday i played with stock skins... few years ago i bough an stock 97 Supra and I drove stock and noone cares... today its fully moded 650HP non stock car and girls love it and guys wants to have it too... You see the pattern here? Do you have a very small penis? Nice bait, however im justa guy who likes StarCraft and loves modding cars as a hobby ^.^, but the thing i wanted to say that you want show things off to motivate other to go for it...
If someone chooses to disable skins the probability that seeing them would motivate him to buy them too is incredibly low.
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On August 25 2017 23:48 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2017 22:38 PharaphobiaSC wrote:On August 25 2017 22:06 Creager wrote:On August 25 2017 21:56 PharaphobiaSC wrote:On August 25 2017 19:35 Charoisaur wrote:On August 25 2017 18:33 PharaphobiaSC wrote:
There is not a single game which allows you to turn of skins.. and dont give that SC:R bullshit beucase all that shuts off is MAIN BUILDING SKIN, which is literally the most ignored and least watched building in the game...
So there goes mr. obvious fact...: Why on earth would you pay an art team to make skins and than implementing an option to shut them off? Tournaments do that for a reason, because (and i said that like 4 times already) it matters nowhere else than there....
So there goes typical StarCraft community reaction "fcing blizz cash grab everything costs money and its bad" yet they finally make some profit back from years of investment.... and you are sitting here as a diamond player playing ladder for fun acting like few black stalkers and immortals are ruining the game...
Idk its just sad... The sad thing are those *** who want to force their opponent to see something they don't want to see. There is zero harm to implementing an option to turn off skins. The only people who want to disable them are players who are annoyed by them and if you want to force them to see them anyway you're just a *** who wants to ruin others gaming experience. I bough skins, and I use then when i want... yesterday i played with stock skins... few years ago i bough an stock 97 Supra and I drove stock and noone cares... today its fully moded 650HP non stock car and girls love it and guys wants to have it too... You see the pattern here? Do you have a very small penis? Nice bait, however im justa guy who likes StarCraft and loves modding cars as a hobby ^.^, but the thing i wanted to say that you want show things off to motivate other to go for it... If someone chooses to disable skins the probability that seeing them would motivate him to buy them too is incredibly low.
i don't know about that. i thought the TB voice pack would be "average at best". I recently watched a replay from my opponent's perspective.. .and he had the TB voice pack... and it was fucking hilarious. so i bought the TB voice pack.
On August 25 2017 22:06 Creager wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2017 21:56 PharaphobiaSC wrote:On August 25 2017 19:35 Charoisaur wrote:On August 25 2017 18:33 PharaphobiaSC wrote:
There is not a single game which allows you to turn of skins.. and dont give that SC:R bullshit beucase all that shuts off is MAIN BUILDING SKIN, which is literally the most ignored and least watched building in the game...
So there goes mr. obvious fact...: Why on earth would you pay an art team to make skins and than implementing an option to shut them off? Tournaments do that for a reason, because (and i said that like 4 times already) it matters nowhere else than there....
So there goes typical StarCraft community reaction "fcing blizz cash grab everything costs money and its bad" yet they finally make some profit back from years of investment.... and you are sitting here as a diamond player playing ladder for fun acting like few black stalkers and immortals are ruining the game...
Idk its just sad... The sad thing are those *** who want to force their opponent to see something they don't want to see. There is zero harm to implementing an option to turn off skins. The only people who want to disable them are players who are annoyed by them and if you want to force them to see them anyway you're just a *** who wants to ruin others gaming experience. I bough skins, and I use then when i want... yesterday i played with stock skins... few years ago i bough an stock 97 Supra and I drove stock and noone cares... today its fully moded 650HP non stock car and girls love it and guys wants to have it too... You see the pattern here? Do you have a very small penis?
Kaceytron is spreading awareness of this terrible affliction by selling tiny flesh coloured ribbons.
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Having the ability to disable skins would ruin skin sales.
Skins just need to be made more carefully. They cant just slap the same color/texture/design on every single unit and mass produce skins like that.
Each skin needs to be very identifiable.
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I still don't buy this "it would ruin skin sales". It would have an impact for sure, but i think people largely buy skins because they wanna customize their army and don't really care too much if the enemy can see it (or rather every enemy).
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On August 26 2017 00:40 The_Red_Viper wrote:
I still don't buy this "it would ruin skin sales". It would have an impact for sure, but i think people largely buy skins because they wanna customize their army and don't really care too much if the enemy can see it (or rather every enemy).
ya, its usually a 1v1 game.. and in games any bigger than 2v2 you can't include all ur skins any way. its not like its Overwatch 6v6 and 11 different people can see how bad ass u r.... or an open world like Guild Wars 2 or something...
its a totally different social situation.
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On August 26 2017 00:40 The_Red_Viper wrote:
I still don't buy this "it would ruin skin sales". It would have an impact for sure, but i think people largely buy skins because they wanna customize their army and don't really care too much if the enemy can see it (or rather every enemy).
I have to disagree with you here. I think that a poll as well as some numbers would be needed here for either of us to show a conclusive argument, but without that here's my point. Skins are bought via micro-transaction for two reasons, one is to show you have them to your opponent, and the other is to have them because you want to look cool. Getting rid of anyone else seeing your skin rids any potential buyer of half of the reason to buy a skin for their in-game characters. While you may not care very much, I can say that I've specifically heard in other games from players who see another person's skin and ooze over it, or talk to that player about whether or not they like the skin. People like customizing their own characters to reflect their aesthetic, and that includes having other people see those skins. If we want to make this better, then the answer is not to prevent ourselves from seeing skins universally, its to only produce skins which produce enough contrast or make the units even more visibly distinct. Now if Blizz aren't too tied to this then a setting that eliminates skin viewing would be a reasonable option, but it would absolutely hurt sales.
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On August 26 2017 00:50 docvoc wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2017 00:40 The_Red_Viper wrote:
I still don't buy this "it would ruin skin sales". It would have an impact for sure, but i think people largely buy skins because they wanna customize their army and don't really care too much if the enemy can see it (or rather every enemy).
I have to disagree with you here. I think that a poll as well as some numbers would be needed here for either of us to show a conclusive argument, but without that here's my point. Skins are bought via micro-transaction for two reasons, one is to show you have them to your opponent, and the other is to have them because you want to look cool. Getting rid of anyone else seeing your skin rids any potential buyer of half of the reason to buy a skin for their in-game characters. While you may not care very much, I can say that I've specifically heard in other games from players who see another person's skin and ooze over it, or talk to that player about whether or not they like the skin. People like customizing their own characters to reflect their aesthetic, and that includes having other people see those skins. If we want to make this better, then the answer is not to prevent ourselves from seeing skins universally, its to only produce skins which produce enough contrast or make the units even more visibly distinct. Now if Blizz aren't too tied to this then a setting that eliminates skin viewing would be a reasonable option, but it would absolutely hurt sales.
Blizzard shouldn't value their sales over the gaming experience of their players.
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EPT
