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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
![[image loading]](https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20953853_1941162899470731_4558538685091556590_n.png?oh=5da536520f27c14a43d2c96fc4c87644&oe=5A301076) If the answer isn't immediately obvious, then there's a problem! Played some SC2 for the first time in a long time this weekend and came across this issue. I can't be the only person who thinks this... there HAS to be a way to disable this. Is there a mode (colorblind or whatever) that improves visibility of these skins? | ||
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Vutalisk
United States680 Posts
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Weavel
Finland9221 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16669 Posts
you can control the colour of your enemy's units along with your gamma setting. this helps with readability. that said, i hope we get the ability to control both the colour of enemy units as well as the skin of enemy units. I want my TvTs to be Raynor's Raiders versus Dominion Special Forces. | ||
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Luolis
Finland7103 Posts
On August 24 2017 02:20 Weavel wrote: Go back to reddit. He is right, you know? | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16669 Posts
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Rantech
Chile526 Posts
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Kerdinand
Germany113 Posts
Of course I see the problem that people want to "show off" the fact that they invested money into the game to other people, so maybe decals and similar (like we had within the warchest) could be introduced to satisfy their need of attention. Otherwise, everybody should be able to turn off cosmetic confusion. On August 24 2017 02:20 Weavel wrote: Go back to reddit. Honestly, he is voicing a concern, and instead of bringing counterarguments, you just want to send him off? Ok. | ||
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xTJx
Brazil419 Posts
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Zaros
United Kingdom3692 Posts
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
 I think one should be able to disable skins, people will say that then there is no incentive to buy them but i think most people use skins because they think it looks nice. So i don't buy that argument. | ||
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WeddingEpisode
United States356 Posts
On August 24 2017 01:53 DinoMight wrote: Played some SC2 for the first time in a long time this weekend and came across this issue. I can't be the only person who thinks this... Excuse me, but the skins stink. They could have gone with Metallic, or blinking lights, or any cool embellishment of design that is more visible and satisfying to see. This is just Gamma Saturation or whatever this coloring effect is called. | ||
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_fool
Netherlands676 Posts
 ) split second decisions | ||
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lestye
United States4149 Posts
On August 24 2017 02:52 Zaros wrote: They look fine while actually playing the game not in some still screenshot that is specifically made to make a point The units are more distinct when they're animating but there still might be a point to the criticism. | ||
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Ansinjunger
United States2451 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16669 Posts
On August 24 2017 03:00 The_Red_Viper wrote: Some of these skins are actually really hard to read, but i wouldn't say that "why skins are dumb" really makes a good point at all I think one should be able to disable skins, people will say that then there is no incentive to buy them but i think most people use skins because they think it looks nice. So i don't buy that argument. make it so you can customize the skins of your enemy. that makes up for your enemy disabling your skins. you get your own fully customized experience. Red Terran with the Dominion skins looks like the Brotherhood of Nod... i was yelling "peace through power" as my siege tanks and upgraded marines decimated my enemy's base. | ||
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sc-darkness
856 Posts
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Aegwynn
Italy460 Posts
However, i believe it is possible to overcome this without the disable option. They just have to work harder on the skins. There are some good examples like; Immortal (not the one in the op but the other one) or Viking. They both look cool and they are easily distinguishable. I didn't like most new zerg skins, they've just added random spikes on every creature which is a really lazy work and confusing. Even worse than this picture imho. Protoss skins are no better, just made them all look like hallucinated... | ||
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Creager
Germany1889 Posts
I mean, I can choose my favorite color, yet, opponents can alter "my" color on their screen if they want to for the sake of simplicity and playability and noone ever complains about that. C'mon, even Remastered handled this problem so much better by just giving out a main building skin and you can even disable that if you want to. Just seems to me that they kinda want to separate their players, gearing SC2 more towards the "modern age of gaming bullshit" while keeping the traditionalists and old farts at bay with BW which I find pretty sad as I really like both games, it's just that SC2 seems drifting further and further away for me. | ||
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
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[PkF] Wire
France24192 Posts
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FFW_Rude
France10201 Posts
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Cyro
United Kingdom20284 Posts
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Sholip
Hungary422 Posts
Another thing would be to not change units' sizes. The Oracle skin, for example, looks much bigger than a normal Oracle, in my opinion (same as the age-old complaint about Zergling wings, although for some reason that one doesn't bother me at all). | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15914 Posts
Of course there is the energy bar but that could also be from sentries. Lost a few games because I engaged a protoss army and didn't realize he has templar. Then of course there is the baneling skin which every zerg is abusing right now to get an unfair advantage. SC2 is literally pay2win atm. | ||
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Meepman
Canada610 Posts
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
I think this is what they neglected before they started going crazy. | ||
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WeddingEpisode
United States356 Posts
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JWD[9]
364 Posts
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xaoras
8 Posts
Still the option to disable opponent's skins should probably be in the game, not that i would use it since skins are pretty cool. | ||
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Little-Chimp
Canada948 Posts
also ya make a disable option | ||
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vult
United States9400 Posts
I like the skins for the most part but yes readability is an issue, but thats not something new for SC2. Hell, readability for late game protoss has ALWAYS been an issue, not just with this skin. Disable option is a good idea. Also future skins should take the large range of pc power/capability into account to reduce visual clutter and messy grouping. | ||
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Kerdinand
Germany113 Posts
On August 24 2017 03:48 FFW_Rude wrote: Yeah i had trouble reading what was in a production tab while shoutcraft Thats also a thing Id like to see changed. In the production tab, or the production facility, the generic basic unit skin should IMO always be displayed, also to avoid confusion. Skins are jsut especially hard to spot in these small pictures. On August 24 2017 04:36 WeddingEpisode wrote: Is this worth a thread on B.net, since we're the ones who play the game? There is a thread on the B.net forums as far as I know, but since these have like zero moderation it consists of very, well, lets say "unconstructive" discussion and has been downvoted into the abyss. | ||
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
The skins are a tough one. While some think an option to turn them of is the easy solution. It is actually not that easy. People who buy those skins want to show them off. And those skins are there because people wanted to see more support for Sc2. So the ability for others to turn them off would defeat the purpose of those skins. I like the idea about skinning your opponents army though. That would be a sneaky way to implement a turn it off option. And will upset less people that buy those skins. Otherwise they will probably only mention that they discuss the option to turn skins off and see how the community reacts. The Screenshot made it easy though, because the selection circles were there. And the stalkers have this distinct jewel which makes them easy to count on the fly. Immortals have always been rather blocky though, so even normal ones tended to obscure stuff. | ||
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ihatevideogames
570 Posts
lmao | ||
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raff100
498 Posts
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Inazuma
17 Posts
for example immortals are easily spotted because of their yellow in contrast to stalkers. If you want immortals to have a skin, give it all the decoration you want but keep the yellow. | ||
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sM.Zik
Canada2547 Posts
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DSh1
292 Posts
On August 24 2017 03:48 FFW_Rude wrote: Yeah i had trouble reading what was in a production tab while shoutcraft Yes, please provide at least for observing/production tab "unskinned" untis/buildings. | ||
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beheamothsc
19 Posts
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Sapphire.lux
Romania2620 Posts
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Sholip
Hungary422 Posts
On August 24 2017 10:01 Inazuma wrote: I think as a rule, skins shouldnt change the ratio of team colors with unit colors. for example immortals are easily spotted because of their yellow in contrast to stalkers. If you want immortals to have a skin, give it all the decoration you want but keep the yellow. That, and also it shouldn't change their size. Like Stalkers with the Forged skin are much wider, and so are Oracles. In the case of Stalkers, it also adds to the confusion with Immortals; for other units, it is just simply off-putting. | ||
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hfsrj
Germany166 Posts
Also, in production tab, the unit without skin should be shown. I really don't understand what's on the production tab sometimes ! | ||
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AbouSV
Germany1278 Posts
That way I'm not the only completly unable to estimate how many unit there are in a glance. I really feel like I'm the only one this bad at it  (The first sentence was sarcastic, I agree with OP) | ||
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gingerfluffmuff
Austria4570 Posts
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fluidrone
France1478 Posts
You add blinds/shutters/metal bars  This community did ask for these skins (ergo: blizz experimentation into making people's units look different, that is what it is: implementing differences) and of course an option added 7 years in should be de-activate-able (sounds reasonable since tournaments will probably ask for it soon/right away).. ..more things change the more they stay the same. Ring around the rosie! ps: no skins in brudwurR yet? | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24192 Posts
As I said earlier : allow people to customize all races' units. If you want a full on standard game you can have it. If you want dominion fighting taldarim every tvp you can have it. Will give your game a unique feeling without ruining the opponent's experience. | ||
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gTank
Austria2557 Posts
On August 24 2017 03:12 JimmyJRaynor wrote: make it so you can customize the skins of your enemy. that makes up for your enemy disabling your skins. you get your own fully customized experience. Red Terran with the Dominion skins looks like the Brotherhood of Nod... i was yelling "peace through power" as my siege tanks and upgraded marines decimated my enemy's base. Hehe that were good times :D | ||
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NspFancy
Korea (South)21 Posts
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aQuaSC
717 Posts
On August 24 2017 12:46 beheamothsc wrote: ye, button needed to remove skins to native. Im not sure at what point everyone started accepting this to be ok with the game industry. We all hated this with a pasion a few years ago, now ur all lapping it up. Try to release a multiplayer game without customization nowadays. I never was a skin advocate myself, but some of them are nice especially with altered portraits and voice-over and they don't bother me much, even preorder skins in Remastered don't bother me at all. But maybe I'm just an isolated case here. As bad as you can try to make the present skins look bad, they don't look nearly as unreadable in motion. But again, it may be just me | ||
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
On August 24 2017 17:28 gingerfluffmuff wrote: Damn, that picture in the OP is disgusting. I havent encountered such a situation yet, but if i would get owned by it i would feel angry and dissappointed. The only way to combat this is posting on battlenet and stop playing sc2 It's almost like it was intentionally set up to make things look as bad as possible. The only thing they should change are the units in the production tab and other places on the UI. | ||
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314159271828
16 Posts
The problem is not being able to opt out of having the opponents skins shown to you if they distract you or if you simply aestatically preference the vanilla ones. | ||
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aQuaSC
717 Posts
On August 24 2017 19:27 Ansibled wrote: It's almost like it was intentionally set up to make things look as bad as possible. The only thing they should change are the units in the production tab and other places on the UI. Wanted to post that originally but thought I'd get immediately bashed, you can easily have similar situations if you want even without skins by choosing particular colors for some maps. If you want the game to look poorly you easily can. Try to play a game with zerg on Acolyte and choose opponent's color to black, then post here how bad it is. Oh and turn off health bars for extra annoyance. I'm all for no-skins icons on production tabs. btw why is there no Colossus standing over the army covering half of the units for extra puzzle quality? | ||
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Crookedpinkies
United States6 Posts
If they kept some version of the original colors but added the embellishments with some additional coloring to make them all feel apart of the same 'army', which is kind of the point for the war chest skins, then I don't think it would be a problem. But as is, it's irritating not being able to tell sometimes where your immortals are in a big group of stalkers. EDIT: I also want to point out, just as a matter of opinion, but I really don't like changing the wireframe portraits in the selection window to match the skins. Why not just keep them the same as the original? It seems like over complicating things and it doesn't really serve much of a purpose since that's not the reason people want the skins. Maybe it's not a big deal to most, but I find it annoying. | ||
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Deleted User 132135
702 Posts
On August 24 2017 03:44 [PkF] Wire wrote: Allow players to customize their skins and their opponent's, just like for colors. Plain and simple. I support this. For me the picture looks like one mass of the same. The question is not if you can see it a bit better when they are moving. The question is if players should be allowed to create an advantage through this or not. No matter how big that advantage is. The answer to that is easy. | ||
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Brainyac
Germany199 Posts
On August 24 2017 03:44 [PkF] Wire wrote: Allow players to customize their skins and their opponent's, just like for colors. Plain and simple. Couldn't agree more. | ||
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PharaphobiaSC
Czech Republic457 Posts
It is the same old song with everything.... "Hey Blizz we want tu support SC2 eSport giev skins" (three months later) "why skins are dumb" ..... like i don't even know if this is legit... Tournaments doesn't allow skins and THATS THE PLACE WHERE IT ACTUALLY MATTERS... noone cares when ur raging in ur little basement bcs you never learn how to count units.. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15914 Posts
On August 24 2017 19:32 aQuaSC wrote: Wanted to post that originally but thought I'd get immediately bashed, you can easily have similar situations if you want even without skins by choosing particular colors for some maps. If you want the game to look poorly you easily can. Try to play a game with zerg on Acolyte and choose opponent's color to black, then post here how bad it is. Oh and turn off health bars for extra annoyance. I'm all for no-skins icons on production tabs. btw why is there no Colossus standing over the army covering half of the units for extra puzzle quality? I'd like to see the picture where you can't tell apart the units with skins disabled. | ||
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DSh1
292 Posts
On August 25 2017 05:35 PharaphobiaSC wrote: Hopefully this will get ignored... It is the same old song with everything.... "Hey Blizz we want tu support SC2 eSport giev skins" (three months later) "why skins are dumb" ..... like i don't even know if this is legit... Tournaments doesn't allow skins and THATS THE PLACE WHERE IT ACTUALLY MATTERS... noone cares when ur raging in ur little basement bcs you never learn how to count units.. The fallacy of assuming everyone wanted to see skins from your opponents. I think that's the main issue. You may have a different opinion, but you have to admit people do have a point. | ||
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reneg
United States859 Posts
On August 25 2017 05:35 PharaphobiaSC wrote: Hopefully this will get ignored... It is the same old song with everything.... "Hey Blizz we want tu support SC2 eSport giev skins" (three months later) "why skins are dumb" ..... like i don't even know if this is legit... Tournaments doesn't allow skins and THATS THE PLACE WHERE IT ACTUALLY MATTERS... noone cares when ur raging in ur little basement bcs you never learn how to count units.. ...You're upset because people have pointed out (correctly) that many of the skins look REALLY similar? OP has a completely valid point, and several skins have been poor since the beginning (when roaches look very similar to tunneling roaches, the lings with wings make it more difficult to see speed / count) Blizz has shown time and again this isn't something they're really interested in fixing. | ||
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Ctone23
United States1839 Posts
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PharaphobiaSC
Czech Republic457 Posts
On August 25 2017 06:18 DSh1 wrote: The fallacy of assuming everyone wanted to see skins from your opponents. I think that's the main issue. You may have a different opinion, but you have to admit people do have a point. Having a point is to "hate everyting" in StarCraft community so.. what's the point? | ||
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PharaphobiaSC
Czech Republic457 Posts
On August 25 2017 06:47 reneg wrote: ...You're upset because people have pointed out (correctly) that many of the skins look REALLY similar? OP has a completely valid point, and several skins have been poor since the beginning (when roaches look very similar to tunneling roaches, the lings with wings make it more difficult to see speed / count) Blizz has shown time and again this isn't something they're really interested in fixing. Like have 2 more lings matters in SC2 ZvZ... Tournaments go them disabled so as i said... the visibility is there when it actually matters.. otherwise, yeah... u wanted skins there you go... And no I'm upset bcs since 2013 its the hate train on literally everything being introduced so yeah ... ^.^ | ||
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Creager
Germany1889 Posts
On August 25 2017 06:18 DSh1 wrote: The fallacy of assuming everyone wanted to see skins from your opponents. I think that's the main issue. You may have a different opinion, but you have to admit people do have a point. This ignorance is what seriously bothers me most, the goal should be to please the maximum amount of players and when such a simple option could ensure that, why not go for it? Live and let live, there are people who don't enjoy skins in this game for whatever reason, but that shouldn't be of others concern anyway. If someone buys cosmetical stuff just to show off and to get acknowledged by others instead of his own personal delight, he should question his behaviour. | ||
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ShambhalaWar
United States930 Posts
Skins are an economic model for the developers and enjoyable for players; they will probably be a part of every game from now until the end of gaming. I play heroes and I didn't like it for maybe a week, then I just got over it... it's really not that hard to get used to imo. If you are blaming your loses on skins... lolz... you probably need rethink why you lost a game (I promise it wasn't from skins). Edit: also... to echo what other people have said... This community really finds a reason to hate everything. Just stop hating, pls for your own benefit. Like the game for what it is, an amazing rts, leagues beyond anything else on the market. You like bw better? Cool now you can just go back to playing it like I did, it's fun for different reasons than sc2. They are both really good rts games, the best I have ever played. | ||
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Autumn22
26 Posts
The specific problem with that skin is that Stalkers have grey skin while other protoss units have gold which is how we normally identify stalkers easily, but the Tal'Darim skin makes them dark and they no longer contrast with stalkers. I think Stalkers/Tal'Darim skins are an issue, and I think Zerglings/dark Baneling skins are the other issue. I think if they'd just fix those, it'd be great. Just make tal'darim stalkers more distinguishable and make banelings more green. | ||
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c0sm0naut
United States1229 Posts
come to think of it, the last game i played was against a zerg using those pay to win baneling skins | ||
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seopthi
391 Posts
Not only for practical reasons mentioned in thread so many times, but also stylistically -- even with all warchest available skins now, it looks weird having black units and yellow units. Perhaps in a year, we will have buildings that go well with the unit skins, but still 1) it looks weird now and 2) usage would be binary of all being on or off, while for example as Terran you can turn some off and some on while keeping the general style the same | ||
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RecklessCraft
Canada27 Posts
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Death916
United States23 Posts
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maitiky
Czech Republic54 Posts
On August 24 2017 03:44 [PkF] Wire wrote: Allow players to customize their skins and their opponent's, just like for colors. Plain and simple. 100 % agree on this. Not for some "you can't tell the exact number of oponent's units" reasons, but simply beacuse players should have a choice whether they want to see altered stuff or not. The basic question here is - do I purchase skins for my own delight or just to show off in front of my oponent? Because if I did purchase them for my own delight, it doesn't really matter what my oponent sees. And if I did purchase them just to show off... well, then there's something wrong inside my head. There are players that simply don't like some skins (or even whole collections of skins) and there will be even more skins in the future (as Blizzard promised), so it can easily happen, that you will be plying three games in a row against the same race and still those oponent's units will look different each time. This could be confusing (and annoying) not only for veteran players, but even more for beginners. Imagine a person that is trying to learn SC2 multiplayer, while every game he/she has to meet a whole different looking stuff while still playing the same match up... If we can change oponent's color (from our point of view), why not skins. If I want every game to look standard, why can't I have it that way? It's a simple change (to be able to turn skins off/set which skins should be used for each race) that won't hurt anybody and still delight a portion of players. I simply don't see any reason why not implement this. If we can have different announcer set for each race and different skins for our units, why not for oponent's units. Live and let live. | ||
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_fool
Netherlands676 Posts
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Creager
Germany1889 Posts
On August 25 2017 14:56 _fool wrote: To put it all in perspective: Team Fortress 2 (self proclaimed "Worlds nr 1 war-themed hat simulator") was one of the first games to introduce purely cosmetic skins. People have been asking for the option to disable skins client side since 2010 or so, and I believe that to this day the option is not implemented. Implementing it would be trivial, so they must have a good reason not to. And my guess is money. While certainly noone disagrees to the money argument, TF2 has gone free to play in 2011, so it's suboptimal to bring up this comparison. Edit: In addition to that, SC2 offers different things for microtransaction, such as co-op commanders, announcers and bonus mission packs, so skins aren't the only money factor, yet by not offering an option to turn skins off client-side Blizzard is somehow declaring people who buy skins and fiercly combat any criticism premium players. I myself bought an announcer and the Nova mission packs, but simply don't enjoy skins in SC2, yet with their policy of ignoring a part of their playerbase they potentially drive those players away from the game, resulting in them missing out on more potential revenue, right? | ||
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papaz
Sweden4149 Posts
Skins are one of the best things happening SC2. I want more skins than this! | ||
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PharaphobiaSC
Czech Republic457 Posts
So there goes mr. obvious fact...: Why on earth would you pay an art team to make skins and than implementing an option to shut them off? Tournaments do that for a reason, because (and i said that like 4 times already) it matters nowhere else than there.... So there goes typical StarCraft community reaction "fcing blizz cash grab everything costs money and its bad" yet they finally make some profit back from years of investment.... and you are sitting here as a diamond player playing ladder for fun acting like few black stalkers and immortals are ruining the game... Idk its just sad... | ||
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maitiky
Czech Republic54 Posts
On August 25 2017 18:33 PharaphobiaSC wrote: There is not a single game which allows you to turn of skins.. and dont give that SC:R bullshit beucase all that shuts off is MAIN BUILDING SKIN, which is literally the most ignored and least watched building in the game... So there goes mr. obvious fact...: Why on earth would you pay an art team to make skins and than implementing an option to shut them off? Tournaments do that for a reason, because (and i said that like 4 times already) it matters nowhere else than there.... So there goes typical StarCraft community reaction "fcing blizz cash grab everything costs money and its bad" yet they finally make some profit back from years of investment.... and you are sitting here as a diamond player playing ladder for fun acting like few black stalkers and immortals are ruining the game... Idk its just sad... "Why on earth would you pay an art team to make skins and than implementing an option to shut them off?" - again, why do you buy those skins in the first place? For yourself or for oponent? What harm does it for you, if your oponent does not see your skins, but you still can see them? This conversation is not about "skins are dumb, fuck blizzard, they just want money, boo-hoo", like you are trying to suggest. It's just a discussion about a simple change to the game - an option, to turn FOR YOURSELF ONLY (since you like Caps Lock) skins off, not ruining experience for your oponent. What's so problematic about that? And why does skins matter in a tournament but not on the ladder? Many proplayers train on the ladder (beside playing custom games), so this "you are just diamond scrub who does not play for money so shut the fuck up" is completely dumb. Obviously there is some kind of problem with skins, otherwise they would not be banned in tournaments. And just because somebody is not a proplayer, it doesn't mean that his gaming experience doesn't matter. And from my personal point of view - I'd rather have the option to turn skins off/set skins for my oponents than to be forced to play against ugly monotonous one-color-for-every-unit blob of something. Ideally on some dark map like Acolyte, that's just "lovely" experience, visual-wise. | ||
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Creager
Germany1889 Posts
On August 25 2017 18:33 PharaphobiaSC wrote: There is not a single game which allows you to turn of skins.. and dont give that SC:R bullshit beucase all that shuts off is MAIN BUILDING SKIN, which is literally the most ignored and least watched building in the game... So there goes mr. obvious fact...: Why on earth would you pay an art team to make skins and than implementing an option to shut them off? Tournaments do that for a reason, because (and i said that like 4 times already) it matters nowhere else than there.... So there goes typical StarCraft community reaction "fcing blizz cash grab everything costs money and its bad" yet they finally make some profit back from years of investment.... and you are sitting here as a diamond player playing ladder for fun acting like few black stalkers and immortals are ruining the game... Idk its just sad... Since when do people like you decide what is fun for me? You're just overgeneralizing and twisting arguments to fit into your narrow perspective apparently without reading most of the other posts. Almost noone blames Blizzard for trying to monetize the game, just let people choose in which way they want to enjoy the game. I really like the idea of custom announcers, also that when watching a replay from your opponents player camera you get to hear their announcer, that's a very subtle, non intrusive way to promote such things, enforcing skins is not. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15914 Posts
On August 25 2017 11:58 Death916 wrote: I may have missed if someone else said it, but the picture in OP looks to be on very low graphic settings. ON High/ Ultra the units look much more easy to distinguish Because every SC2 player can/wants to play on high graphics settings, right? Graphic settings exist for a reason. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15914 Posts
On August 25 2017 18:33 PharaphobiaSC wrote: There is not a single game which allows you to turn of skins.. and dont give that SC:R bullshit beucase all that shuts off is MAIN BUILDING SKIN, which is literally the most ignored and least watched building in the game... So there goes mr. obvious fact...: Why on earth would you pay an art team to make skins and than implementing an option to shut them off? Tournaments do that for a reason, because (and i said that like 4 times already) it matters nowhere else than there.... So there goes typical StarCraft community reaction "fcing blizz cash grab everything costs money and its bad" yet they finally make some profit back from years of investment.... and you are sitting here as a diamond player playing ladder for fun acting like few black stalkers and immortals are ruining the game... Idk its just sad... The sad thing are those *** who want to force their opponent to see something they don't want to see. There is zero harm to implementing an option to turn off skins. The only people who want to disable them are players who are annoyed by them and if you want to force them to see them anyway you're just a *** who wants to ruin others gaming experience. | ||
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Simberto
Germany11458 Posts
And there are a lot of people who want skins to show off a bit. That is one of the main reasons people buy skins. And that means that there will never be an option to disable skins, because the people who pay for them want the other to see them, and would buy less of them if others couldn't see them. This is the reason that no game that has skins that you can buy has an ability to disable them. Now, this is a lot less problematic in a F2P game obviously. I am not the biggest fan of the full price + skins + ... constant customer milking model. | ||
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Creager
Germany1889 Posts
On August 25 2017 20:13 Simberto wrote: I don't really understand this "wanting skins to show to your opponent is sick!!!!" argument. People like to have shiny stuff, and have people look at the shiny stuff they have. This is not seen as weird when you are talking about jewelry, a dress, a car, first edition signed books, a complete collection of all transformers ever made, or basically anything else. Why is it weird in video games? And there are a lot of people who want skins to show off a bit. That is one of the main reasons people buy skins. And that means that there will never be an option to disable skins, because the people who pay for them want the other to see them, and would buy less of them if others couldn't see them. This is the reason that no game that has skins that you can buy has an ability to disable them. Now, this is a lot less problematic in a F2P game obviously. I am not the biggest fan of the full price + skins + ... constant customer milking model. Because collecting physical stuff in the real world is a completely different thing compared to virtual stuff with artifical scarcity. And noone technically forces me to look at you while you cruise by in your Ferrari  | ||
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MockHamill
Sweden1798 Posts
Disable your opponents skin: 9.95$ Extra map veto: 19.95$ Call down 300 extra minerals: 4.95$ Change loss to win: 9.95$ | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15914 Posts
On August 25 2017 20:13 Simberto wrote: I don't really understand this "wanting skins to show to your opponent is sick!!!!" argument. People like to have shiny stuff, and have people look at the shiny stuff they have. This is not seen as weird when you are talking about jewelry, a dress, a car, first edition signed books, a complete collection of all transformers ever made, or basically anything else. Why is it weird in video games? And there are a lot of people who want skins to show off a bit. That is one of the main reasons people buy skins. And that means that there will never be an option to disable skins, because the people who pay for them want the other to see them, and would buy less of them if others couldn't see them. This is the reason that no game that has skins that you can buy has an ability to disable them. Now, this is a lot less problematic in a F2P game obviously. I am not the biggest fan of the full price + skins + ... constant customer milking model. But the thing I don't understand is why do you want to force your opponent to see them if he doesn't want to see it. The people that might think your skins look cool won't turn them off even with this option. You can still show off to them. The only people wanting to turn them off are those who are annoyed by them. Why do you want them to see the skins when they just find it annoying? To be a dick? | ||
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Sholip
Hungary422 Posts
On August 25 2017 20:13 Simberto wrote: I don't really understand this "wanting skins to show to your opponent is sick!!!!" argument. People like to have shiny stuff, and have people look at the shiny stuff they have. This is not seen as weird when you are talking about jewelry, a dress, a car, first edition signed books, a complete collection of all transformers ever made, or basically anything else. Why is it weird in video games? And there are a lot of people who want skins to show off a bit. That is one of the main reasons people buy skins. And that means that there will never be an option to disable skins, because the people who pay for them want the other to see them, and would buy less of them if others couldn't see them. This is the reason that no game that has skins that you can buy has an ability to disable them. Now, this is a lot less problematic in a F2P game obviously. I am not the biggest fan of the full price + skins + ... constant customer milking model. Exactly this. I think like half the reason people buy skins is to show them off, even if they won't acknowledge this (with the other half obviously being they themselves also enjoying how cool they look). Guys, believe me, people at Blizzard aren't stupid. Also, they can read, so they probably know what the community thinks about skins. If they don't implement an option to disable skins, it's not because it never occured to them that some people would like such an option, but because they choose not to, for whatever reason. And that reason so far has probably been a fear of decreasing skin sale, which I find totally acceptable. The solution would be, in my opinion, to leave the characteristic colors, shapes and size of units mostly unchanged, so it doesn't cause confusion. As far as the "full price + skins + ... constant customer milking model" is concerned, I know it's probably not a very constructive answer, but really, you don't have to buy skins if you don't want to (seeing the opponents' skins is another quesion of course). I don't see how introducing new skins, announcer packs, emoticons or even co-op commanders for money counts as milking. They are pushing out a lot of content for us, it's only fair if we have to pay for it in return, in my opinion. Also, as others have stated, microtransactions is the very model a lot of players were asking for. | ||
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africola
Germany35 Posts
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PharaphobiaSC
Czech Republic457 Posts
On August 25 2017 21:49 africola wrote: option to disable those bad skins is needed ASAP. agree with OP. there is a reason they are not allowed in GSL e.g. yes the reason is they are disabled when IT ACTUALLY MATTERS... noone cares about ur 10 ladder points | ||
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PharaphobiaSC
Czech Republic457 Posts
On August 25 2017 19:35 Charoisaur wrote: The sad thing are those *** who want to force their opponent to see something they don't want to see. There is zero harm to implementing an option to turn off skins. The only people who want to disable them are players who are annoyed by them and if you want to force them to see them anyway you're just a *** who wants to ruin others gaming experience. I bough skins, and I use then when i want... yesterday i played with stock skins... few years ago i bough an stock 97 Supra and I drove stock and noone cares... today its fully moded 650HP non stock car and girls love it and guys wants to have it too... You see the pattern here? U can use it whenever you want, but it generates attention and potenional money to run this damn WCS so you can watch ur pros on streams competing.... | ||
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Creager
Germany1889 Posts
On August 25 2017 21:56 PharaphobiaSC wrote: I bough skins, and I use then when i want... yesterday i played with stock skins... few years ago i bough an stock 97 Supra and I drove stock and noone cares... today its fully moded 650HP non stock car and girls love it and guys wants to have it too... You see the pattern here? Do you have a very small penis? User was warned for this post | ||
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PharaphobiaSC
Czech Republic457 Posts
Nice bait, however im justa guy who likes StarCraft and loves modding cars as a hobby ^.^, but the thing i wanted to say that you want show things off to motivate other to go for it... | ||
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Creager
Germany1889 Posts
On August 25 2017 22:38 PharaphobiaSC wrote: Nice bait, however im justa guy who likes StarCraft and loves modding cars as a hobby ^.^, but the thing i wanted to say that you want show things off to motivate other to go for it... Well, I guess most people posting here like StarCraft, but for different reasons. Some people simply won't get motivated to buy skins when seeing them, maybe even the opposite, so where's the harm giving those people the choice to opt-out of seeing them? I mean, you wouldn't even know, unless they show you some kind of message like: "Your opponent unfortunately has custom skins disabled, so he won't be able to appreciate how much additional money you put into the game. Really, fuck this guy!" For example, I play on lowest settings only with effects and textures on ultra, not because my system can't handle it, but because I don't want distracting things and eyecandy, just the best possible perfomance for competitive play, and for me skins kinda undermine that. | ||
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iloveav
Poland1478 Posts
1. Skins "can" be disruptive in a game where you are trying to operate at high apm. 2. Having the option to disable skins of your opponent diminishes the incentive of having those skins (for those who want to show their different skin to their opponent),thus reduces the overall % of people buying skins. 3. Blizzard created skins "in the first place" or, "with the purpose" of making a revenue from those skins. 4. It would be against Blizzard's economical interest to allow a player to disable skins. Am I forgetting something? (as a side note I have been playing Heros of the storm for a while for fun and after around 300 games I still mistake heros because of skins. Like, i will literally think it is a different hero because of how it looks). When the concept of monetaization or revenue of a company direct collides with the interests of the players one of two things can happen: 1. The company finds a different way to monetize the game. 2. The players leave the game once its something they dont want to play. | ||
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Drake
Germany6146 Posts
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Creager
Germany1889 Posts
On August 25 2017 23:18 iloveav wrote: Lets see if people agree: 1. Skins "can" be disruptive in a game where you are trying to operate at high apm. 2. Having the option to disable skins of your opponent diminishes the incentive of having those skins (for those who want to show their different skin to their opponent),thus reduces the overall % of people buying skins. 3. Blizzard created skins "in the first place" or, "with the purpose" of making a revenue from those skins. 4. It would be against Blizzard's economical interest to allow a player to disable skins. Am I forgetting something? (as a side note I have been playing Heros of the storm for a while for fun and after around 300 games I still mistake heros because of skins. Like, i will literally think it is a different hero because of how it looks). When the concept of monetaization or revenue of a company direct collides with the interests of the players one of two things can happen: 1. The company finds a different way to monetize the game. 2. The players leave the game once its something they dont want to play. Good points, but you forget that skins aren't the only items they sell, there are also announcer packs, co-op commanders, additional singleplayer content, so players who enjoy those, but not skins could be turned away from the game, resulting in loss of potential revenue, as well. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15914 Posts
On August 25 2017 22:38 PharaphobiaSC wrote: Nice bait, however im justa guy who likes StarCraft and loves modding cars as a hobby ^.^, but the thing i wanted to say that you want show things off to motivate other to go for it... If someone chooses to disable skins the probability that seeing them would motivate him to buy them too is incredibly low. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16669 Posts
On August 25 2017 23:48 Charoisaur wrote: If someone chooses to disable skins the probability that seeing them would motivate him to buy them too is incredibly low. i don't know about that. i thought the TB voice pack would be "average at best". I recently watched a replay from my opponent's perspective.. .and he had the TB voice pack... and it was fucking hilarious. so i bought the TB voice pack. Kaceytron is spreading awareness of this terrible affliction by selling tiny flesh coloured ribbons. | ||
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
Skins just need to be made more carefully. They cant just slap the same color/texture/design on every single unit and mass produce skins like that. Each skin needs to be very identifiable. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16669 Posts
On August 26 2017 00:40 The_Red_Viper wrote: I still don't buy this "it would ruin skin sales". It would have an impact for sure, but i think people largely buy skins because they wanna customize their army and don't really care too much if the enemy can see it (or rather every enemy). ya, its usually a 1v1 game.. and in games any bigger than 2v2 you can't include all ur skins any way. its not like its Overwatch 6v6 and 11 different people can see how bad ass u r.... or an open world like Guild Wars 2 or something... its a totally different social situation. | ||
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docvoc
United States5491 Posts
On August 26 2017 00:40 The_Red_Viper wrote: I still don't buy this "it would ruin skin sales". It would have an impact for sure, but i think people largely buy skins because they wanna customize their army and don't really care too much if the enemy can see it (or rather every enemy). I have to disagree with you here. I think that a poll as well as some numbers would be needed here for either of us to show a conclusive argument, but without that here's my point. Skins are bought via micro-transaction for two reasons, one is to show you have them to your opponent, and the other is to have them because you want to look cool. Getting rid of anyone else seeing your skin rids any potential buyer of half of the reason to buy a skin for their in-game characters. While you may not care very much, I can say that I've specifically heard in other games from players who see another person's skin and ooze over it, or talk to that player about whether or not they like the skin. People like customizing their own characters to reflect their aesthetic, and that includes having other people see those skins. If we want to make this better, then the answer is not to prevent ourselves from seeing skins universally, its to only produce skins which produce enough contrast or make the units even more visibly distinct. Now if Blizz aren't too tied to this then a setting that eliminates skin viewing would be a reasonable option, but it would absolutely hurt sales. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15914 Posts
On August 26 2017 00:50 docvoc wrote: I have to disagree with you here. I think that a poll as well as some numbers would be needed here for either of us to show a conclusive argument, but without that here's my point. Skins are bought via micro-transaction for two reasons, one is to show you have them to your opponent, and the other is to have them because you want to look cool. Getting rid of anyone else seeing your skin rids any potential buyer of half of the reason to buy a skin for their in-game characters. While you may not care very much, I can say that I've specifically heard in other games from players who see another person's skin and ooze over it, or talk to that player about whether or not they like the skin. People like customizing their own characters to reflect their aesthetic, and that includes having other people see those skins. If we want to make this better, then the answer is not to prevent ourselves from seeing skins universally, its to only produce skins which produce enough contrast or make the units even more visibly distinct. Now if Blizz aren't too tied to this then a setting that eliminates skin viewing would be a reasonable option, but it would absolutely hurt sales. Blizzard shouldn't value their sales over the gaming experience of their players. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16669 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany15914 Posts
On August 26 2017 00:37 JimmyJRaynor wrote: i don't know about that. i thought the TB voice pack would be "average at best". I recently watched a replay from my opponent's perspective.. .and he had the TB voice pack... and it was fucking hilarious. so i bought the TB voice pack. Yeah but my point is if someone dislikes the concept of skins so much that they disable seeing them, they won't buy them anyway. In your example if there was an option to disable hearing different announcer packs when watching replays you probably wouldn't enable that because you aren't opposed to the idea of announcer packs. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
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Simberto
Germany11458 Posts
From Blizzards perspective there is simply no good reason to allow that and cut into their profits. I would say that the fact that no company that sells skins in games has ever allowed for other players to disable those, despite people asking for that rather often, points to the fact that they believe that they would lose a significant amount of sales by allowing that option. The good solution is to make skins that are cool don't really interfere with gameplay, by making them unique but still distinctly identifiable. But i think that that is not that easy to do from an artistic standpoint. You have to narrow down exactly what elements make a unit identifiable, and what you can change without interfering with that. Like, a baneling needs a green blobby ball on it, but you can change the rest of it in a cool way without making it less identifiable. However, making the ball blue is apparently a problem. That stuff is hard to do, but i would expect people who are professionals at designing units to be able to do that. | ||
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ihatevideogames
570 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany15914 Posts
On August 26 2017 01:10 Simberto wrote: From Blizzards perspective there is simply no good reason to allow that and cut into their profits. I would say that the fact that no company that sells skins in games has ever allowed for other players to disable those, despite people asking for that rather often, points to the fact that they believe that they would lose a significant amount of sales by allowing that option. SC:R has this option.......... | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
Ofc it is about getting every dollar they can get and disabling skins would be a negative in that regard no doubt. But would it be that impactful? I don't know. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16669 Posts
On August 26 2017 01:10 Simberto wrote: Yes, but as soon as a large proportion of the games population disables skins (because they think that will be an advantage in the game), those skins lose a lot of value to the people who would be willing to buy them, and they thus don't do so. rather than the sledge hammer of "disable skins"... why not let the players CUSTOMIZE their opponents unit skins. Therefore, the players can select the skin they want for each opposition unit. If this player values identifiability above all else they'll wrap their opponents units skins accordingly. For example, some people might view the 3 wheeled Hellion as the most easily recognizable Hellion. they'll chose that skin for their opponent.. etc. Of course, they'll have to buy it. this will force the super serious players to buy all skins to test them all out for identifiability purposes. ATVI wins... the super casuals can keep playing SC2 as per usual .. the super serious players have to pay more money for a game they play a lot... and of course the whiners will find a way to whine about it as well. Sounds like the perfect solution. | ||
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Argonauta
Spain4906 Posts
On August 26 2017 01:36 JimmyJRaynor wrote: rather than the sledge hammer of "disable skins"... why not let the players CUSTOMIZE their opponents unit skins. Therefore, the players can select the skin they want for each opposition unit. If this player values identifiability above all else they'll wrap their opponents units skins accordingly. For example, some people might view the 3 wheeled Hellion as the most easily recognizable Hellion. they'll chose that skin for their opponent.. etc. Of course, they'll have to buy it. this will force the super serious players to buy all skins to test them all out for identifiability purposes. ATVI wins... the super casuals can keep playing SC2 as per usual .. the super serious players have to pay more money for a game they play a lot... and of course the whiners will find a way to whine about it as well. Sounds like the perfect solution. Then there will be some skins better or more optimal to play with or against than others and SC2 it would become a pay to win, bad idea. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16669 Posts
On August 26 2017 01:45 Argonauta wrote: Then there will be some skins better or more optimal to play with or against than others and SC2 it would become a pay to win, bad idea. its already happened. recognizing your own units in a deathball is critical. a guy with lots of money to spend has 4 different Thors to choose from... if winning is his goal then he'll pick the most recognizable Thor. there are several Marauder skins as well. again, a player will select the most recognizable Marauder. hell when i first got the new Hellion and i glanced at my wireframes quickly i thought i had a bunch of Liberators in my deathball. | ||
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Wildmoon
Thailand4189 Posts
On August 26 2017 00:52 Charoisaur wrote: Blizzard shouldn't value their sales over the gaming experience of their players. In some sort of fantasy this could happen. I don't even mean Blizzard. I mean all business. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16669 Posts
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Wildmoon
Thailand4189 Posts
On August 26 2017 02:06 JimmyJRaynor wrote: its already happened. recognizing your own units in a deathball is critical. a guy with lots of money to spend has 4 different Thors to choose from... if winning is his goal then he'll pick the most recognizable Thor. there are several Marauder skins as well. again, a player will select the most recognizable Marauder. hell when i first got the new Hellion and i glanced at my wireframes quickly i thought i had a bunch of Liberators in my deathball. I have never seen an unrecognizable thor. This is getting silly. Over-exaggerating your point is not gonna help. well that and , the gaming experience results in sales. Likely not that simple. | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On August 26 2017 02:06 JimmyJRaynor wrote: its already happened. recognizing your own units in a deathball is critical. a guy with lots of money to spend has 4 different Thors to choose from... if winning is his goal then he'll pick the most recognizable Thor. there are several Marauder skins as well. again, a player will select the most recognizable Marauder. hell when i first got the new Hellion and i glanced at my wireframes quickly i thought i had a bunch of Liberators in my deathball. That seems a bit much. Maybe it takes some getting used to, but there's no way thors or hellions could become unrecognisable when playing | ||
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docvoc
United States5491 Posts
On August 26 2017 02:28 Wildmoon wrote: I have never seen an unrecognizable thor. This is getting silly. Over-exaggerating your point is not gonna help. Likely not that simple. This is the most accurate way of looking at it. Creating a sustainable business model does not mean that a company can prioritize the gaming experience before its own existence. In a perfect world or scenario one would come directly from the other, but of course no business has that luxury. There are also many people who I would imagine might argue persuasively that skins are an integral part of the "gaming experience." | ||
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Isualin
Germany1903 Posts
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NEEDZMOAR
Sweden1277 Posts
You will get used to this too, stop being so negative regarding every change. | ||
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Creager
Germany1889 Posts
On August 26 2017 16:09 NEEDZMOAR wrote: Why do you guys actually care? Pros play enough games to get used to the skins, and as a casual player its just fun with some differentiating. You will get used to this too, stop being so negative regarding every change. I couldn't care less about pros in this regard and no, for some it's not fun. Change isn't something a game like StarCraft needs, it needs consistency. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16669 Posts
On August 26 2017 02:28 Wildmoon wrote: I have never seen an unrecognizable thor. This is getting silly. Over-exaggerating your point is not gonna help. why pick out the Thor when i named more than the Thor? Building on that is claim the Thor is the only unit where this is possible. what about the 3 Marauder skins? right now you can select the most recognizable Marauder. Is the world coming to an end because certain players have access to 3 Marauder skins and others only have access to 1 Marauder skin? Is that Pay2win? nah, you are over reaching. If you wish to stretch this Pay2Win label as far as you can then you can claim that buying an excellent mouse and keyboard improves your chances of winning as well and therefore every PC game is Pay2Win. like i said, its already happening. the most serious players will buy and use the most recognizable units. Again, allowing players to customize their opponents skins is a nice move. It makes mirror matches look really cool. the #1 value in Blizzard's core values mission statement is "gameplay first" | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15914 Posts
On August 26 2017 18:13 JimmyJRaynor wrote: like i said, its already happening. the most serious players will buy and use the most recognizable units. The most recognizable units are those without skins | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15914 Posts
On August 26 2017 16:09 NEEDZMOAR wrote: Why do you guys actually care? Pros play enough games to get used to the skins, and as a casual player its just fun with some differentiating. You will get used to this too, stop being so negative regarding every change. It's clearly a problem for pros otherwise they wouldn't be disallowed in tournaments. | ||
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Creager
Germany1889 Posts
On August 26 2017 18:31 Charoisaur wrote: It's clearly a problem for pros otherwise they wouldn't be disallowed in tournaments. Not so sure if this is actually about the pros having problems or if it would fuck with the casual spectator too much. Either way it's reasonable to have such a rule in place and when you can qualify for WCS via ladder, they should even more so offer a "tournament mode" (only default skins). | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24192 Posts
On August 26 2017 18:36 Creager wrote: Not so sure if this is actually about the pros having problems or if it would fuck with the casual spectator too much. Either way it's reasonable to have such a rule in place and when you can qualify for WCS via ladder, they should even more so offer a "tournament mode" (only default skins). makes a lot of sense. I'd like Blizzard to at least talk about this topic in one of the numerous updates they'll do for the testing map. If they're never going to allow skins customization of both sides, I'd like them to say it. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16669 Posts
On August 26 2017 18:29 Charoisaur wrote: The most recognizable units are those without skins in your opinion and in your experience. for other people that might not be the case. 1 of the guys i play has a very slight oversensitivity to light and his pupils do not dilate correctly when he stares at an LCD screen for a long time. Therefore, for him, a PC game is a different experience than your experience. For him, the premium Marauder skin is the most recognizable. | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24192 Posts
On August 26 2017 23:38 JimmyJRaynor wrote: in your opinion and in your experience. for other people that might not be the case. 1 of the guys i play has a very slight oversensitivity to light and his pupils do not dilate correctly when he stares at an LCD screen for a long time. Therefore, for him, a PC game is a different experience than your experience. For him, the premium Marauder skin is the most recognizable. makes the option to custom all races' skins even more desirable | ||
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scvnotready
4 Posts
After blizzard started to make skins, people asked blizzard disabling skins. LOL | ||
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Uberfather
272 Posts
On August 25 2017 21:04 MockHamill wrote: Maybe we could get some micro transitions to handle this. Disable your opponents skin: 9.95$ Extra map veto: 19.95$ Call down 300 extra minerals: 4.95$ Change loss to win: 9.95$ Thats making terran imba, they have to pay less to win | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
On August 27 2017 01:10 scvnotready wrote: When there was only a few skin, people asked blizzard more skin and blamed blizzard not making skins. After blizzard started to make skins, people asked blizzard disabling skins. LOL Actually most people asked Blizzard to allow an option to disable skins ever since (unpaid) skins first arrived in HotS, but blizzard ignored that and carried on making as many skins as possible. Also before there was skins, most people didn't want skins, but the ones who did were obviously much more vocal. | ||
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Creager
Germany1889 Posts
On August 26 2017 23:10 [PkF] Wire wrote: makes a lot of sense. I'd like Blizzard to at least talk about this topic in one of the numerous updates they'll do for the testing map. If they're never going to allow skins customization of both sides, I'd like them to say it. Yeah, I'd rather have a heads up on this than being ignored forever. | ||
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Creager
Germany1889 Posts
On August 27 2017 01:31 Dangermousecatdog wrote: Actually most people asked Blizzard to allow an option to disable skins ever since (unpaid) skins first arrived in HotS, but blizzard ignored that and carried on making as many skins as possible. Also before there was skins, most people didn't want skins, but the ones who did were obviously much more vocal. Yup, I have been opposed to skins in SC2 since when they first introduced them (collector's edition was kinda cool, because it was really exclusive, you rarely saw it and it was just one t3 unit), microtransactions when already buying the game three times are a shitty move, that's still my personal opinion, but even I bought the Nova mission pack and D.Va announcer because I really liked the content. But when you introduce such a feature in a game that is quite seasoned already and the game worked splendid without it, you gotta at least offer an option to have it work like it previously did. That would just be user-friendly, but what do we know ^^ | ||
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Jan1997
Norway671 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On August 27 2017 16:18 Jan1997 wrote: Are skins allowed in tournaments? I could see this being used to confuse opponents & help hide smaller units like dts etc. Nope. Skins aren't allowed in most (almost all?) tournaments. Though sometimes players do use skins especially in qualifiers, and generally everyone just lets it slide. Though I haven't seen any of the more confusing skins in tournaments. I assume the opponent would complain in that case. | ||
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Sholip
Hungary422 Posts
On August 27 2017 16:35 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Nope. Skins aren't allowed in most (almost all?) tournaments. Though sometimes players do use skins especially in qualifiers, and generally everyone just lets it slide. Though I haven't seen any of the more confusing skins in tournaments. I assume the opponent would complain in that case. I remember seeing skins it tournaments, though. Granted, not in GSL or SSL, but for one, I specifically remember seeing people use skins yesterday in the WCS Montreal NA Qualifiers. I know it's a qualifier, but it's still WCS, so I would expect it to have the same rules as the main event. | ||
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c0sm0naut
United States1229 Posts
On August 25 2017 21:56 PharaphobiaSC wrote: I bough skins, and I use then when i want... yesterday i played with stock skins... few years ago i bough an stock 97 Supra and I drove stock and noone cares... today its fully moded 650HP non stock car and girls love it and guys wants to have it too... You see the pattern here? U can use it whenever you want, but it generates attention and potenional money to run this damn WCS so you can watch ur pros on streams competing.... god what has TL become literally no one cares about the shitty 1990s ricemobile you've autistically poured thousands of dollars into or your skins. see a pattern here? ur opinion is actually so worthless "Joined: April 2016" sounds about right User was warned for this post | ||
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c0sm0naut
United States1229 Posts
On August 27 2017 01:22 Uberfather wrote: Thats making terran imba, they have to pay less to win bringing the other races up to terran level w the calldown hahaha | ||
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seemsgood
5527 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16669 Posts
On August 29 2017 07:09 c0sm0naut wrote: god what has TL become literally no one cares about the shitty 1990s ricemobile you've autistically poured thousands of dollars into or your skins. see a pattern here? ur opinion is actually so worthless "Joined: April 2016" sounds about right User was warned for this post if u r implying TL is a place where people new to SC2 and RTS are hanging out.. then i think its fantastic. as RTS games age the ladder becomes a shark infested grinder. New players need a place where they can slowly get better and gradually increase their knowledge and skills so they can actually enjoy 1v1 Ladder. if TL.Net is that place. That's great. If not TL.Net it needs to be someplace else. i think there is good beginner content on TL. and i think its great that it exists. | ||
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c0sm0naut
United States1229 Posts
On August 29 2017 12:56 JimmyJRaynor wrote: if u r implying TL is a place where people new to SC2 and RTS are hanging out.. then i think its fantastic. as RTS games age the ladder becomes a shark infested grinder. New players need a place where they can slowly get better and gradually increase their knowledge and skills so they can actually enjoy 1v1 Ladder. if TL.Net is that place. That's great. If not TL.Net it needs to be someplace else. i think there is good beginner content on TL. and i think its great that it exists. yeah its a great resource for them unfortunately their posts often contribute nothing because they do not read the rules of the forum or the topic they are posting in lets analyze what this kid actually said: "I bough skins, and I use then when i want... yesterday i played with stock skins... few years ago i bough an stock 97 Supra and I drove stock and noone cares... today its fully moded 650HP non stock car and girls love it and guys wants to have it too... You see the pattern here? U can use it whenever you want, but it generates attention and potenional money to run this damn WCS so you can watch ur pros on streams competing.... " After some random shit, he kind of makes a point. (that skins fund WCS) but what kind of thread are we in? a thread asking for an option to disable skins for people who do not want to use them. was his post on topic? no, he talked about his cars, his ownership of skins, then talked about the benefits of new revenue sources for the game is this a topic about his car, his ownership of skins or the benefits of new revenue sources for the game? no, this topic is about establishing a community demand for the ability to disable skins since common sense establishes that having funds for WCS and having a button to disable skins are not mutually exclusive, Mods can easily determine that this post is totally off topic and warn/ban the user for this post. but they dont. and so now this is why TL is the way it is. random kids with "SC" in their name making tangential narcissistic/self-referential posts, wasting our time and not actually engaging with the community in a meaningful way! im not saying to go back to when they used to be absolute sticklers, because that probably scared away a lot of new users, but... come on... | ||
Poopi
France12771 Posts
Would be nice to have an option to disable enemy skins. | ||
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KrOjah
United Kingdom68 Posts
On August 29 2017 15:43 Poopi wrote: Skins are quite bad looking and it's indeed bad for readability but I guess they need to sell stuff? Would be nice to have an option to disable enemy skins. Free 2 play games "need" to sell stuff. That is not the case here. If it is just to keep the pro scene afloat then one has to question whether it is worth carrying on with. Surely if viewing numbers are so bad that there is little interest from sponsors that is saying something. I have not played Sc2 in years and in general I do not mind skins, but I would be a little pissed by the screenshot in the OP. Units are literally camouflaged into one another. How that was deemed exceptable is a bit of a joke. | ||
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KOtical
Germany451 Posts
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gingerfluffmuff
Austria4570 Posts
Because then people cant brag about their skins anymore. Imo one of the main reasons for owning skins is to show off. | ||
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JimSocks
United States968 Posts
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207aicila
1237 Posts
On August 29 2017 15:05 c0sm0naut wrote: yeah its a great resource for them unfortunately their posts often contribute nothing because they do not read the rules of the forum or the topic they are posting in lets analyze what this kid actually said: "I bough skins, and I use then when i want... yesterday i played with stock skins... few years ago i bough an stock 97 Supra and I drove stock and noone cares... today its fully moded 650HP non stock car and girls love it and guys wants to have it too... You see the pattern here? U can use it whenever you want, but it generates attention and potenional money to run this damn WCS so you can watch ur pros on streams competing.... " After some random shit, he kind of makes a point. (that skins fund WCS) but what kind of thread are we in? a thread asking for an option to disable skins for people who do not want to use them. was his post on topic? no, he talked about his cars, his ownership of skins, then talked about the benefits of new revenue sources for the game is this a topic about his car, his ownership of skins or the benefits of new revenue sources for the game? no, this topic is about establishing a community demand for the ability to disable skins since common sense establishes that having funds for WCS and having a button to disable skins are not mutually exclusive, Mods can easily determine that this post is totally off topic and warn/ban the user for this post. but they dont. and so now this is why TL is the way it is. random kids with "SC" in their name making tangential narcissistic/self-referential posts, wasting our time and not actually engaging with the community in a meaningful way! im not saying to go back to when they used to be absolute sticklers, because that probably scared away a lot of new users, but... come on... For what it's worth I agree with you. And as someone with a Quake background I also agree that being forced to see skins that you don't want to see and which might even put you at a disadvantage depending on their readability is a big no-no. | ||
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PharaphobiaSC
Czech Republic457 Posts
On August 29 2017 23:18 207aicila wrote: For what it's worth I agree with you. And as someone with a Quake background I also agree that being forced to see skins that you don't want to see and which might even put you at a disadvantage depending on their readability is a big no-no. As someone with a Quake background you should know that they disabled enemymodels in Quake Champions because of skins ) | ||
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207aicila
1237 Posts
On August 29 2017 23:51 PharaphobiaSC wrote: As someone with a Quake background you should know that they disabled enemymodels in Quake Champions because of skins )It's not like it would make sense to allow a cg_forceenemymodel command in a game with numerous different champions each with its own hitbox. Nice try at a gotcha though, I give you 3/10 for effort. | ||
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Hadronsbecrazy
United Kingdom551 Posts
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Sapphire.lux
Romania2620 Posts
On August 29 2017 22:34 gingerfluffmuff wrote: Blizz will never add a option to disable skins. Because then people cant brag about their skins anymore. Imo one of the main reasons for owning skins is to show off. I agree and that is why i was opposed to this. On a free to play game that's fine, but i paid 140+euros for the damn game, i don't want to put up with the tipical free to play BS. | ||
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paralleluniverse
4065 Posts
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paralleluniverse
4065 Posts
On August 26 2017 01:04 The_Red_Viper wrote: I like that argument actually. If you really dislike skins so much that you would disable them it's unlikely that you would buy them to begin with. Not true. Seeing your own skins doesn't disrupt gameplay. Seeing your opponent's can. | ||
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Creager
Germany1889 Posts
On August 29 2017 19:54 KrOjah wrote: Free 2 play games "need" to sell stuff. That is not the case here. If it is just to keep the pro scene afloat then one has to question whether it is worth carrying on with. Surely if viewing numbers are so bad that there is little interest from sponsors that is saying something. I have not played Sc2 in years and in general I do not mind skins, but I would be a little pissed by the screenshot in the OP. Units are literally camouflaged into one another. How that was deemed exceptable is a bit of a joke. Yes, that's actually a good, albeit brutally honest point, I guess. I know most of us really like this whole esports thing, but when we take our rose-tinted glasses off for a second, we might realize that those big events, tournaments etc. are all promotional acts, all of them are PR gigs advertising the respective game played - and now that they partly outsource that investment to their customers people are even happy about it. Different times, I guess. | ||
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paralleluniverse
4065 Posts
On August 29 2017 22:34 gingerfluffmuff wrote: Blizz will never add a option to disable skins. Because then people cant brag about their skins anymore. Imo one of the main reasons for owning skins is to show off. This nonsense argument that keeps getting trotted out has been totally debunked. 1. The argument totally ignores how skins have been degrading the game by reducing readability and impacting gameplay. 2. You can still show them off to all the people who choose not to use the option. 3. There's actually nothing to show off, because no skin is impressive or unique. Everyone's already seen them all already. 4. There is zero evidence it would reduce sale of skins. That is based on nothing. 5. Allowing skins to be turned off could even improved their appeal by allowing them to be used in co-op, without restriction in large game formats, in WCS tournaments, without ruining the readability of the game. 6. SCR has the option. There is no problem. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16669 Posts
On August 30 2017 02:37 paralleluniverse wrote: 4. There is zero evidence it would reduce sale of skins. That is based on nothing. There is zero evidence because no one except ATVI and Blizz has information related to what features and benefits impact buying decisions of their customers. i didn't buy the TB voice pack until i heard him in a replay where i watched from my opponents' perspective. Seeing the super cool red//black Brotherhood of Nod terrans would make me want to go out and buy the Warchest skins. had there been a feature that disabled voice packs so i can only ever hear the adjutant i never would've bought the TB Voice pack. and i probably would've disabled voice packs given the choice. so there is $7.50 right there. Peace Thru Power! | ||
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DSh1
292 Posts
In the end there are two sides of the argument: Allowing an option to turn of skins would definitely improve gameplay experience for some people. However this would also definitely lead to some people not buying skins. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16669 Posts
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207aicila
1237 Posts
On August 30 2017 03:52 JimmyJRaynor wrote: well , i'd like the ability to customize my opponent's skins to what i like to see. this could lead to me buying more skins. Yeah see, it's not such a bad idea to allow every player to choose what they want to see. | ||
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Erugua
13 Posts
There is the same problem for zerg I believe. I actually bought it, don't really know why tho, I knew about the baneling issue and some of the others before I did that.. Maybe because it gives advantage and so many zerg have it in ladder and that I want to support the game also. On the other hand just making it less confusing, with more work on each skin and some easy to recognize features and that should do the trick. BTW OP, you couldn't count very fast anything that is 20+ units, even if it was 11 roaches 10 hydras and 7 zerglings, cuz even with 3 by 3 or 4 by 4 counting you have better things to do, and you should already know that he has 8 immortals coming to schreck you goddamn | ||
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DudeMan260
United States17 Posts
BTW OP, you couldn't count very fast anything that is 20+ units, even if it was 11 roaches 10 hydras and 7 zerglings, cuz even with 3 by 3 or 4 by 4 counting you have better things to do, and you should already know that he has 8 immortals coming to schreck you goddamn I'm not one of the ones too affected by the unit skins. I barely have enough time to play anymore, I much prefer to watch as It's easy to pause. It's reasonable to assume that a professional would be able to determine unit counts at a glance, to an oddly specific number, even when it's zerglings. The amount of time they've invested is beyond your average player. It would almost be a requirement for zerg players to discern this information when defending multi prong aggression. The difference between 6 banelings rolling at 16 marines and 8 is huge. Although, we don't see that style of Byun aggression that much anymore, you should get the point. I could go on with different units being a burden to undermine like widow mine counts or immortal counts. It all plays into reactivity. | ||
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Erugua
13 Posts
That's what I'm saying, you glance at it, and since you saw it a million time already you know what it is. | ||
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brickrd
United States4894 Posts
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Psychobabas
2531 Posts
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Zulu23
Germany132 Posts
This game is dependent on information presented in a glimps of a second and a variety of skins makes it even harder to decode this information. I mean what comes next, 10 Bucks for Skins which are even more difficult to distinguish from each other`? | ||
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Arbiter Matiego
United States14 Posts
"There is not a single game which allows you to turn of skins" What the hell are you talking about....? plenty of games have this option including StarCraft Remastered. I can't believe this lie wasn't even addressed. The whole idea that people have to be forced to see other people's skins because X wants to show off is nonsensical, should I be forced to use ULTRA graphical settings too and kill my computer? my opponent has ULTRA graphical settings on so he can show off and be a badass! Why should the skin player's wants be above my own? why should he be able to change my viewing experience to my detriment? none of these arguments make any actual sense. | ||
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StarscreamG1
Portugal1653 Posts
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