Yeah watching this solidifies my opinion that very little credit was given to Shuttle. in that other thread.

That said this game didnt start any balance talk. I dont think i saw anyone in that thread talking balance over this game.

I simple linked this game to show the other guy that Protoss can perfectly play on 45 workers with 8 gateways and also expand behind it. Cuz i have been facing such build and watching such build for years now. That was literally the first example i found going to SK stream. And there are 500000 games like that. I feel like my point wasnt understood at all. I wasnt talking about winning or losing. Any case is fine. Obviously it helps that Protoss was in that situation cuz then i will read stuff like well 45 Workers oviously dont work cuz Protoss was defeated.

But well they all turned it into a Zero throws. Zero cooky etc. Zero expanded too early etc. Im not even convinced a +2 attack would have changed too much. The major problems i found from zero POV in that game is that he tried to do an early semi contain and costed him few lurkers in the process. That would have been fine if he didnt have so few lurkers at home and not even ready to burrow. So shuttle pretty much was at his face with the HTS full of energy and i really doubt a +2 attack could have done something. I played this situation many times and as long as u dont really force storms from Protoss you can be even in Supply 150-150 hydra lurker that if there are many storms left you will see that supply drop instantly.

Also is funny Jaedong going instantly calling that Shuttle turned into Jangbi. Queen vs Jangbi LMAO

chongu

Malaysia2593 Posts

February 17 2025 00:53 GMT

This proleague shyt is on par with ASL/SSL finals. Bahah

Soulforged

Latvia929 Posts

February 17 2025 01:06 GMT

Shuttle is actually pretty good at pushing. Timing attacks, in all matchups, are his defining feature.
When he's actually in form(hasn't been in forever), they are quite sharp. He'll have the unit count, and he'll handle the engagement well.
He's never been a big macro or flashy micro player, and he's pretty humble(regardless of what he says) - he knows the limit of his mechanics and he picks the strategies where the win criteria is realistic.

Zero also kinda didn't capitalize much on his lead. As in, after zealot throws, he made less hydra(droned a bit faster), while still forcing a lot of cannons from Shuttle.
That's all minerals. It reduces zealot count for P further, and it delays their 3rd.
It doesn't do anything to gas count / HTs / goons / upgrades.

Similarly, sure there were sair throws, but Queen didn't go mutas / main sair throws were not too long before the engagement, lurker switch was underway. Shuttle didn't remake sairs to a point of hurting his goon/obs count, so it didn't really matter much.

Stuff like DTs dying doing nothing matters only in a sense that Shuttle was blind.
DTs are often used to scout army count, muta switches, etc, during the period when scourges prevent sair movement.
They also pin some units home to easier deal with contains, and to force some attention away.
Since Zero played standard, them dying didn't matter much.

So while Shuttle was very behind, he at least had victory potential. Then the tactical mistakes from Zero allowed for it to materialize.

Yeah, P can expand there. They spend pretty much all their income massing goons when preparing, reinforcing with zealot-ht leaves extra. Skipping some zealots(or cannons at 3rd) to get 400 for a nexus is whatever. Maybe P will have a small weakness window cuz he didn't rally fresh zealots to 3rd as is normal. Maybe cannons at 3rd will be late. If Z doesn't attack there it doesn't matter. Maybe next goon wave will be a bit delayed...that would only matter if engagement was close.

RJBTVYOUTUBE

Netherlands989 Posts

February 17 2025 01:22 GMT

the +2 was pretty big, but the bigger part was Queen poorly positioning most of his army. They highlighted for example units being sent to 1 base. There was no good reason for it. units at 6 were ok. Too many units stuck in a small choked area. Lurkers not being where they had to be. Shuttle had all his units in 1 ball. Queen had half his army spread all over the place unprepared. Queen underestimated Shuttle's ability to push out and simply was not ready. Queen basically had to scramble too many groups of units all at once. Its the one advantsgr toss has over zerg. Zerg has too many units to manage all at once. Toss units taking up 2+ supply makes that a lot easier to do. Shuttle did great, Queen fell apart. Shuttle barely won.

XenOsky

Chile2278 Posts

February 17 2025 03:21 GMT

holly fuck that comment blew my mind... he didnt have to go out with zealots if he made his core earlier (aka skip cannon) cause he could scout with first sair... the concept is so simple yet i never thought of that shit rofl

+ Show Spoiler +

im so glad that queen mother fucker lost to Shuttle in the Ace match, GO SHUTTLE, once a champ u always a champ bb

HOLYBATS

Turkey744 Posts

February 17 2025 07:04 GMT

Thanks jinjin. That is hilarious.

WombaT

Northern Ireland25875 Posts

February 17 2025 08:30 GMT

#10

I’m not sure I’ve ever seen a subbed video featuring Shuttle where he’s not getting constantly dunked on haha

Xeln4g4

Italy1209 Posts

February 17 2025 16:19 GMT

#11

Zerg 4th base too early (you need mass if P is on 2 bases unless you destroy his army) + Z army split among 6/2 and Natural when the push comes. Mistakes from Z play as (almost) always when P win this mu. P opening was a half disaster, this probably trick the Z to think he can expand and relax.

FINAL NOTE: Level C Zerg snipes that lonely observer 9/10 times, Queen didn't...GG

Very entertaining video!

EndingLife

United States1597 Posts

February 17 2025 19:43 GMT

#12

Queen played pretty damn well up until the final engagement. He was even ahead in supply at one point, which we all know is super good for Zerg. The partial armies at other bases wasn't even that bad either, as he could flank from different angles. 0-1 vs 2-0-1 upgrades and horrible engagement was the biggest mistake from queen that I saw.

RJBTVYOUTUBE

Netherlands989 Posts

February 18 2025 03:57 GMT

#13

On February 18 2025 04:43 EndingLife wrote:
Queen played pretty damn well up until the final engagement. He was even ahead in supply at one point, which we all know is super good for Zerg. The partial armies at other bases wasn't even that bad either, as he could flank from different angles. 0-1 vs 2-0-1 upgrades and horrible engagement was the biggest mistake from queen that I saw.

on paper the two groups split at other bases are good, but he had them too far away, and they came in too late.

RowdierBob

Australia13241 Posts

February 18 2025 04:24 GMT

#14

Yeah I thought Queen just stuffed up the engagement. There were two or three storms where he did not micro the huge clump of hydras and lost like 12-15 he could’ve easily saved with some better micro.