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Shield
Bulgaria4824 Posts
On April 10 2017 06:59 starkiller123 wrote: The fact that you think dt blink is a problem is hilarious, have you ever actually played a game of legacy? I have, but not with dt blink. It's a stupid concept though. | ||
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Meepman
Canada610 Posts
LotV is radically different from HotS and of course some people aren't going to like it. I can't wrap my head around people saying it's worse to watch though... | ||
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Aunvilgodess
954 Posts
On April 10 2017 02:54 StarscreamG1 wrote: mass banelings vs everything, mass marines vs everything, mass adepts vs everything. There are a lot of nonsense builds. My wet dream is that SC2 could become a Starbow kind of game. With the mechanics of SC2 but the fundamentals of SC1. Of those only one is KINDA a thing. Adept Phoenix is a 2 unit comp that is only temporarily viable. That is absolutely not unprecedented in SC2 history and never has there been such a ridiculously exaggerated debate about it. On April 10 2017 04:08 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: Surprised at this. HotS in its first year was amazing and blew LotV's first year out of the water. If you compare current LotV to HotS in 2015 then it's a bit closer and I might agree slightly with these poll results. LotV's main downfall is it has done nothing to make the game any less unforgiving (might even be worse), it feels like an arms race for higher tech units where it's hard to digest each stage of the game, and perhaps worst of all is it feels like the strategic depth is at an all-time low. WoL >> HotS >= LotV I'd say I am surprised you say something like that... IMO WoL is just worse in almost every regard and people are just having nostalgia. Did you forget what the last year of WoL looked like? I do agree that HotS was better in some aspects, but definitely not overwhelmingly so. PvP is way better in LotV. PvZ was absolute cancer because of 2 base all-ins and PvZ alone is the reason LotV is better for me. Additionally there is neither turtle mech nor swarmhosts. The only thing that was better in early HotS was 4M vs Lingblingmuta and apparently people didn't apprecciate the best thing that ever happened in the game. | ||
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sertas
Sweden882 Posts
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Solar424
United States4001 Posts
On April 10 2017 07:10 Meepman wrote: if BW was still being patched everyone would be screaming for nerfs to queens and reavers etc etc. LotV is radically different from HotS and of course some people aren't going to like it. I can't wrap my head around people saying it's worse to watch though... As people often say, BW was balanced through maps. This led to there being a standard for maps which made the game playable. There are standard maps in SC2, like Overgrowth, but Blizzard seems to think people want wacky and crazy maps like Ulrena or Dasan Station, maps with 20+ bases like Honorgrounds, or maps from 5 years ago like Bel'Shir and Daybreak. | ||
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jalstar
United States8198 Posts
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Mizenhauer
United States1840 Posts
On April 10 2017 07:57 Solar424 wrote: As people often say, BW was balanced through maps. This led to there being a standard for maps which made the game playable. There are standard maps in SC2, like Overgrowth, but Blizzard seems to think people want wacky and crazy maps like Ulrena or Dasan Station, maps with 20+ bases like Honorgrounds, or maps from 5 years ago like Bel'Shir and Daybreak. I've said it so many times lately and I even named a section of the 6 pool feature "A Problem Even Overgrowth Can't Fix" in honor of it, but I would prefer if every game was played on overgrowth. It would lead to much more robust, diverse and dynamic gameplay. | ||
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Meepman
Canada610 Posts
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Xamo
Spain877 Posts
I cannot know for sure, of course. Opinions? | ||
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Tachion
Canada8573 Posts
On April 10 2017 08:18 Xamo wrote: Everytime I read people missing WoL times and 2011 I would bet they play/support Terran. Protoss was unplayable (and unwatchable) in all matchups and ZvZ was a bad joke. HoTS was better for P, and LoTV is so much better for Z also... I cannot know for sure, of course. Opinions? Z in WoL was pretty fun for me(and I never played infestor/brood). I loved playing muta/ling/bane vs marine/tank, and really liked playing the ling/bane heavy ZvZ. ZvP was enjoyable as well, especially after Losira/Nestea made the 3 hatch opener popular. I can pretty much say the same for HotS, I enjoyed playing vs all the races as zerg, maybe a little less so ZvZ. I quit in LotV when TvZ 3 rax reaper was around it's height. Hate adepts and warp prisms. Liked ZvZ even less. Game became less fun for me to play personally, so it also became less fun for me to watch as I wasn't as invested in it. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20284 Posts
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On April 10 2017 06:47 Shield wrote: I think if we keep LotV and remove the following, the game will be more fun to play: - widow mines - oracle - speed mutas (don't remove mutalisks) - boost for medivacs - forcefields - dt blink - liberators - cyclones' super dps Obviously, other units will have to be balanced, but these are the things I don't find fun. LotV needs to improve fun, then balance. Honestly the worst part of LoTV is purely how volatile each game is. I like the direction they went, compared to the 2 hour games of HoTS, but they just went too far, there's much less strategy is LoTV (even in mirrors, fuck even PvP is less strategic than in HoTS imo) -Widow mines and oracles can stay maybe. Could just be I'm used to them, altough they should probably be changed. Oracles for one having so many potential game deciding abilities. -Boost for medivacs I don't mind. -FFs I'm too used to to ask them to change. -Liberators, I like the idea. It's great to have a higher tech for terran that is useful, albeit "too useful". -DT blink is just dumb, "DTs are useless once people get the counter to them, so they need an extra ability" -Cylones are random as hell. pointless to even have in the game Now adepts. That is something that needs to go. I don't think anyone could convince me otherwise. EDIT: It's worth noting that HoTS had some god awful times. TvP for one was horrible, neither blink/2-base allins, or 3 base deathball was fun. Get rid of a couple things and LoTV is waay better in this regard | ||
Olli
Austria24417 Posts
People say there's more going on now, but there isn't. There's no "small skirmishes" at all, there's harassment constantly going on because the economy is everything. So you either harass or you defend harassment. In the end a single fight still usually decides the game - in some cases even more so now because comeback potential is much smaller now. I didn't enjoy SHs, I didn't enjoy mech, I didn't enjoy blink all-ins - but at least the game felt natural, and HotS produced games that were leagues beyond anything ever played in LotV. Because the game allowed it, and LotV doesn't. | ||
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
On April 10 2017 07:17 Aunvilgodess wrote: I am surprised you say something like that... IMO WoL is just worse in almost every regard and people are just having nostalgia. Did you forget what the last year of WoL looked like? I do agree that HotS was better in some aspects, but definitely not overwhelmingly so. PvP is way better in LotV. PvZ was absolute cancer because of 2 base all-ins and PvZ alone is the reason LotV is better for me. Additionally there is neither turtle mech nor swarmhosts. The only thing that was better in early HotS was 4M vs Lingblingmuta and apparently people didn't apprecciate the best thing that ever happened in the game. No nostalgia. Every now and then I check out some of the old games and still find them highly appealing compared to what's on display these days. WoL 2011-mid 2012 (around the queen patch) is just unbeatable in my eyes. Though it was largely carried by how good TvZ and TvT were. I don't hate the speedivac, but as far as TvT goes I definitely feel that's the area in which it turned out to be a net negative and why I think WoL TvT was best TvT. It removed more comeback potential than it added and ruined some of the positional beauty that helped make that mu great. As for pre-queen patch TvZ, I would say that's the peak of sc2 in general. It had the perfect tempo, where the action usually picked up as soon as the hellions hit the field. The LBM vs 4M of HotS was exhilarating to watch, but at the same time it felt like so many of the games were the same. Not just in composition, but also in how they played out. The intensity of HotS TvZ didn't quite allow for the same wiggle room that WoL TvZ did. Also, back then it was an actual struggle to get a 3rd base and we saw a variety of approaches to defending from the Zerg side before so much of the early defensive roles were consolidated into the queen. I didn't forget the last year of WoL either. Yeah the BL/Infestor era wasn't exactly the greatest, but I've never felt it was quite as bad as people make it out to be either. PvZ was arguably the worst mu of any era during BL/Infestor from an entertainment perspective but TvZ could still be amazing (Gumiho vs Losira anyone?). ZvZ back then was equal or better than what LotV offers due to the infestor adding more comeback potential. TvT was still going strong. TvP remained middle of the road. PvP saw some slight improvement near the end of WoL, but was still crap along with PvZ. all in all I can name many far better games from early WoL/HotS than I can from what we're currently seeing from early LotV. The games just feel shorter and more predictable than ever. | ||
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TentativePanda
United States800 Posts
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FarmI3oy
United States255 Posts
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On April 10 2017 09:21 FarmI3oy wrote: The lack of unanimity speaks for itself on this subject. does it | ||
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Luolis
Finland7103 Posts
On April 10 2017 09:17 TentativePanda wrote: Love all the people saying WoL was the best. Lol do you think you're cool for saying that? It was very obviously not. LotV for me is better than HotS but not by much. Or maybe people have different opinions? For me atleast WoL >>>>>>>>>> LotV. Maybe you think differently but don't just go saying "it was obviously not". | ||
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Edowyth
United States183 Posts
With so many game-ending options available so quickly, games don't last as long and they're almost all focused around harassment into one side all-in-ing. | ||
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Brutaxilos
United States2624 Posts
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