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On April 10 2017 01:01 Espartaquen wrote:
Is it more fun? Just look at playerbase and viewership, I think that answers the question quite simply. And, sure, there will be people that like LOTV more than HOTS or WOL, but taking into account how much this game has declined it should really tell something about how the general feeling towards Legacy is.
Yeah it's fair to compare wol with the hype of 12 years of waiting for a new SC + the explosion of twitch and esport vs a 7 year old game that has to compete with more casual esports, and got ruined by hots, not lotv. ><
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HotS gameplay and builds felt like they had more identity. HotS Pros were more renowned for their personalized builds and style of play they utilized, while LotV focuses more on their execution. There was more room to make a style of play your own, and that made it more fun to me. I can't deny that LotV is more action packed though.
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It depends. I think early LotV was more fun than HotS. At the moment, I'm not so sure.
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On April 10 2017 01:02 Luolis wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2017 00:53 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On April 10 2017 00:38 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On April 10 2017 00:10 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:
I bet that "NO" voters never played this game srsly
LotV indeed much better both to play and watch in comparison to WoL/Hots personally, i agree. my 40 apm part time player friends continue to play WoL 2v2s because LotV is too complicated. sure they do, cause being so slow is not a good thing in RTS, at this point a single oracle is a big deal
Played both Lotv and Hots semi-seriously, i enjoyed hots much much more than Lotv.
and the reason why is that? Most of the things tbh, i liked old worker start/mineral thing more, i dislike most of the new units and changes to old units. I feel like the old pace of wol/hots was perfect for SC2 and think that lotv is bit too much of an adhdfest at times. Combine that with stuff like liberators or adepts, and a perfect mix of motivation losing is born.
Okay, I get it. But it amazes me cause u are allowing shitbuilds like 6 pool and turtle mech/swarmhost 3 base happening due to different worker/minerals balance. 3 hours games? We had a few on pro level with rematches even, it was a wastement of time which follows it was bad.
Yes, most of LotV units are powerful, but overall it has more pluses in terms of balances and timewise. LotV benefits the fastest arguably.
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On April 10 2017 01:11 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2017 01:02 Luolis wrote:On April 10 2017 00:53 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On April 10 2017 00:38 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On April 10 2017 00:10 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:
I bet that "NO" voters never played this game srsly
LotV indeed much better both to play and watch in comparison to WoL/Hots personally, i agree. my 40 apm part time player friends continue to play WoL 2v2s because LotV is too complicated. sure they do, cause being so slow is not a good thing in RTS, at this point a single oracle is a big deal
Played both Lotv and Hots semi-seriously, i enjoyed hots much much more than Lotv.
and the reason why is that? Most of the things tbh, i liked old worker start/mineral thing more, i dislike most of the new units and changes to old units. I feel like the old pace of wol/hots was perfect for SC2 and think that lotv is bit too much of an adhdfest at times. Combine that with stuff like liberators or adepts, and a perfect mix of motivation losing is born. Okay, I get it. But it amazes me cause u are allowing shitbuilds like 6 pool and turtle mech/swarmhost 3 base happening due to different worker/minerals balance. 3 hours games? We had a few on pro level with rematches even, it was a wastement of time which follows it was bad. Yes, most of LotV units are powerful, but overall it has more pluses in terms of balances and timewise. LotV benefits the fastest arguably.
I think hots cheeses had an important part in the game. There was actually that "eulogy for the six pool"-article which summarized alot of my thoughts aswell. I never said HotS was perfect, but for me it was better than lotv. Turtle mech/swarmhost shit didn't happen THAT often. I also liked the games lasting more a bit often.
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Canada8991 Posts
On April 10 2017 00:55 MockHamill wrote:
Well stats do not lie.
SC2 used to have 100k viewers in WOL
In LotV they number are down to 8k.
Personally I have stopped watching completly. I still play the game though but it was far better in WOL and in late HOTS (after Swarm Hosts got nerfed).
It's a 8 years old game, how many game that came out before 2010 are still being watch right now on Twitch, there's like only LoL and Melee, and there was no one watching melee for 10 years so it's still a fresh esport games (the number have already start to go down quite a bit).
And anyway if popularity was a good indicator of the quality of something Michel Bay and Taylor Perry would be the greatest director of all time.
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I don't know, hard to say tbh. I dislike a lot of things in lotv, i disliked a lot of things in hots. I watched a ton of hots, i still watch quite a lot of lotv. Is it because of the gameplay or simply because i am used to the game and players? Hard to say sometimes, i think the average game is pretty mediocre in lotv. But it was also pretty mediocre in hots. Top games are fun in both versions of sc2.
So yeah i don't know (i voted "no" though because i don't think it is clearly better, probably about the same)
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On April 10 2017 01:40 Nakajin wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2017 00:55 MockHamill wrote:
Well stats do not lie.
SC2 used to have 100k viewers in WOL
In LotV they number are down to 8k.
Personally I have stopped watching completly. I still play the game though but it was far better in WOL and in late HOTS (after Swarm Hosts got nerfed).
It's a 8 years old game, how many game that came out before 2010 are still being watch right now on Twitch, there's like only LoL and Melee, and there was no one watching melee for 10 years so it's still a fresh esport games (the number have already start to go down quite a bit). And anyway if popularity was a good indicator of the quality of something Michel Bay and Taylor Perry would be the greatest director of all time.
CS is an old game like StarCraft. It's watched by more people.
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On April 10 2017 01:46 Shield wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2017 01:40 Nakajin wrote:On April 10 2017 00:55 MockHamill wrote:
Well stats do not lie.
SC2 used to have 100k viewers in WOL
In LotV they number are down to 8k.
Personally I have stopped watching completly. I still play the game though but it was far better in WOL and in late HOTS (after Swarm Hosts got nerfed).
It's a 8 years old game, how many game that came out before 2010 are still being watch right now on Twitch, there's like only LoL and Melee, and there was no one watching melee for 10 years so it's still a fresh esport games (the number have already start to go down quite a bit). And anyway if popularity was a good indicator of the quality of something Michel Bay and Taylor Perry would be the greatest director of all time. CS is an old game like StarCraft. It's watched by more people.
You should have seen the numbers before valve added skins and put millions into tournaments. That was the true meaning of dead.
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On April 10 2017 00:55 MockHamill wrote:
Well stats do not lie.
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A lazy balance team that only looked at winrates is what killed this game.
stats do not lie? Pacman made $7 Billion and MsPacman only made $1.5 Billion. Therefore Pacman must be a better game than MsPacman. re ductio ad absurdum.
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Lotv is like 1,5 years old? Far from 8 years. Each expansion as well blizzard is "very" open to changing big stuff around. So it could be like a new game.
Dont play the old card please, the game is lackluster as fuck.
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Less protoss deathball and less turtle mech. It's a better game, but the frustation and dumb strats that are hard to play against are the same.
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On April 10 2017 01:03 ArtyK wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2017 01:01 Espartaquen wrote:
Is it more fun? Just look at playerbase and viewership, I think that answers the question quite simply. And, sure, there will be people that like LOTV more than HOTS or WOL, but taking into account how much this game has declined it should really tell something about how the general feeling towards Legacy is. Yeah it's fair to compare wol with the hype of 12 years of waiting for a new SC + the explosion of twitch and esport vs a 7 year old game that has to compete with more casual esports, and got ruined by hots, not lotv. ><
While the hype factor for launch might be a valid argument just look at how many have consistently played each game over the years. Taking Starcraft as a whole, LOTV has been the least successful of all expansions even when it was sold as a standalone product (HOTS was not). And if the gameplay was THAT good and fun, people would have kept playing. Playerbase and strategical variety pale even when comparing them to the last 6 months of HOTS.
No, Legacy is the least fun expansion to watch for most people. Were it not the case all these pros and teams would not have disappeared. Esports are like any other business: supply and demand rule the market, and people have stopped craving starcraft for a reason. Out of almost all esports, ours has been the one that has not grown. Personal preferences aside, I think it´s quite obvious that the majority would prefer HOTS or WOL to LOTV.
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On April 10 2017 02:37 Espartaquen wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2017 01:03 ArtyK wrote:On April 10 2017 01:01 Espartaquen wrote:
Is it more fun? Just look at playerbase and viewership, I think that answers the question quite simply. And, sure, there will be people that like LOTV more than HOTS or WOL, but taking into account how much this game has declined it should really tell something about how the general feeling towards Legacy is. Yeah it's fair to compare wol with the hype of 12 years of waiting for a new SC + the explosion of twitch and esport vs a 7 year old game that has to compete with more casual esports, and got ruined by hots, not lotv. >< While the hype factor for launch might be a valid argument just look at how many have consistently played each game over the years. Taking Starcraft as a whole, LOTV has been the least successful of all expansions even when it was sold as a standalone product (HOTS was not). And if the gameplay was THAT good and fun, people would have kept playing. Playerbase and strategical variety pale even when comparing them to the last 6 months of HOTS. No, Legacy is the least fun expansion to watch for most people. Were it not the case all these pros and teams would not have disappeared. Esports are like any other business: supply and demand rule the market, and people have stopped craving starcraft for a reason. Out of almost all esports, ours has been the one that has not grown. Personal preferences aside, I think it´s quite obvious that the majority would prefer HOTS or WOL to LOTV.
This is a good example of why your reasonning is flawed.
On April 10 2017 01:40 Nakajin wrote:
...
And anyway if popularity was a good indicator of the quality of something Michel Bay and Taylor Perry would be the greatest director of all time.
"Legacy is the least fun to watch for most people" You must not have followed the game much since it came out then...pretty ironic statement considering the poll in this thread too (granted it's a small percentage of the community)
Meanwhile tastosis have repeatedly said this was the best sc2 there ever was, and most pros agreed the core changes were for the best after release.
A common trend i see in people thinking this is the worst version to watch is either deathball lovers or people completly ignorant of the scene for the past year and half.
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mass banelings vs everything, mass marines vs everything, mass adepts vs everything. There are a lot of nonsense builds. My wet dream is that SC2 could become a Starbow kind of game. With the mechanics of SC2 but the fundamentals of SC1.
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LotV is way more fun to watch. In my opinion SC2 has never been better than today.
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I'd say that LotV is very enjoyable to watch but not as much as WoL or HotS. That may be nostalgia speaking but I never really enjoyed the fast paced approach that LotV took. With the stronger economy allins seem like less of a commitment in general and that makes the game too frustrating for me to play atm. I guess that's also something that carries over to my experience in watching streams right now.
I never liked adepts, cyclones or liberators (or most of the LotV units really) as much as i liked the compositions in HotS and in WoL. The game has become a little too versatile imo.
Sounds negative, i know. However, I really enjoyed playing and watching LotV while it lasted. Just not as much as WoL and HotS 
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LOTV is fun to watch every now and then, but it's really quite dull and stale. 3 free bases, harassment, some fighting over the 4rth, end.
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TvP is quite stupid atm but otherwise the game is in the best state it's ever been.
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Polls like this are biased towards the Yes side because this was posted on TL.net (a site for people who like Starcraft) and because most people who would've voted no have left the game forever.
That said, I say it is both less fun to play and less fun to watch. It is definitely less fun to watch because I don't enjoy playing it as much as in WoL.
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EPT
