EPTIt's really neat, didn't know you had nothing more to do.
Community Power Rank v5: Blizzcon with Foreigners! - Page 4
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Poopi
France12873 Posts
It's really neat, didn't know you had nothing more to do. | ||
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ejozl
Denmark3380 Posts
1:  Solar2: Dark3:  Patience4: Snute5:  ByuN6: Neeb7: TY8: Stats9: TRUE10: ShoWTimE11: Nerchio12: Dear13: Zest14: Elazer15: viOLet16: PtitDrogo | ||
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lestye
United States4163 Posts
On October 05 2016 19:17 Poopi wrote: You can automatically TLPD-ize your list by selecting your whole list then clicking on the hydralisk icon on the right by the way! It's really neat, didn't know you had nothing more to do. Holy shit! Nice! 1. Solar2. ByuN3. Polt 4. TY 5. Dark6. TRUE 7. Patience8. Dear9. Zest10. Stats11. Snute12. Neeb13. ShoWTimE14. viOLet15. Nerchio16. Elazer | ||
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KalWarkov
Germany4126 Posts
Yes, he is a top 3 foreigner, it is debateable that he is the best foreigner. but guys, he is nowhere near top 3 or 4 in this ranking. | ||
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hiroshOne
Poland425 Posts
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FrkFrJss
Canada1205 Posts
On October 05 2016 21:33 KalWarkov wrote: hilarious how many overrate Neeb. Let him win a WCS event first or show some consistancy on THAT level. Yes, he is a top 3 foreigner, it is debateable that he is the best foreigner. but guys, he is nowhere near top 3 or 4 in this ranking. That's the first time I've ever seen someone rate a WCS tournament as higher than a Korean tournament, but to each his own. Like...Neeb just made history. This is a really tough power ranking to do, because in certain matchups, I feel like some people are above others but below other people in different matchups. Like for instance? TY and Stats, both very good players, but the way TY lost to Trap was pretty bad, and Neeb dominated Stats. On the other hand, if TY were to face a Zerg, he might look pretty good, and Stats at the very least didn't look terrible against Maru. | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On October 05 2016 22:16 FrkFrJss wrote: That's the first time I've ever seen someone rate a WCS tournament as higher than a Korean tournament, but to each his own. Like...Neeb just made history. This is a really tough power ranking to do, because in certain matchups, I feel like some people are above others but below other people in different matchups. Like for instance? TY and Stats, both very good players, but the way TY lost to Trap was pretty bad, and Neeb dominated Stats. On the other hand, if TY were to face a Zerg, he might look pretty good, and Stats at the very least didn't look terrible against Maru. Its more the nature of the event rather than the fact its Korea. Neeb only fought protoss in the whole thing (and 2 very bad Zergs) and did the same strat almost every time, with the disruptor stalker battles. It would be much harder for him to have won one of the WCS cups that have more players and more variety. He played great in all of them though I'm not denying that, and he is eeeeasily the best foreigner. But I'd rate him behind any of the koreans at blizzcon except maybe patience and dear in PvP. | ||
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Jenia6109
Russian Federation1612 Posts
Dark2. ByuN3. Solar4. Zest5. TY6. Stats7. Neeb8. Nerchio9. Snute10. Patience11. Dear12. TRUE13. ShoWTimE14. Polt15. viOLet16. Elazer | ||
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sparklyresidue
United States5523 Posts
On October 05 2016 21:47 hiroshOne wrote: Oh no...Another power rank which will have nothing common with actual scores... Power ranks are fun but obviously they often do not predict outcomes because of things like group stages and different matchups. | ||
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FrkFrJss
Canada1205 Posts
On October 05 2016 22:57 Fango wrote: Its more the nature of the event rather than the fact its Korea. Neeb only fought protoss in the whole thing (and 2 very bad Zergs) and did the same strat almost every time, with the disruptor stalker battles. It would be much harder for him to have won one of the WCS cups that have more players and more variety. He played great in all of them though I'm not denying that, and he is eeeeasily the best foreigner. But I'd rate him behind any of the koreans at blizzcon except maybe patience and dear in PvP. But if Pet's really bad, what does that make True or Dark? Admittedly, it was only a single series, but a lot of other people who were suppose to do well failed, and a lot of people, including Neeb, who weren't supposed to do well, made the finals. Solar and TY might be favoured, but look at how they went out against Trap. They looked unconvincing for people who were supposed to do way better than Trap. And finally, Neeb played 5 people. How many people would he have played in WCS summer? 5 people. Now, you are correct in saying that he played only specific matchups, but bracket luck is part of any tournament. I think it's actually even more significant that Neeb played one style. He played a single style against Protoss and beat them in micro because they knew it was coming and still couldn't stop him. However, I definitely agree that he played against primarily one style of opponent, the Korean style, which is quite different than the foreigner style of playing. | ||
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Jenia6109
Russian Federation1612 Posts
On October 05 2016 08:59 phodacbiet wrote: Hm, so many people are putting Dark, am I missing something here? Was he really that dominant? Because of 9400 maybe http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2016_StarCraft_II_World_Championship_Series_Korea/Standings | ||
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Poopi
France12873 Posts
On October 05 2016 23:35 FrkFrJss wrote: But if Pet's really bad, what does that make True or Dark? Admittedly, it was only a single series, but a lot of other people who were suppose to do well failed, and a lot of people, including Neeb, who weren't supposed to do well, made the finals. Solar and TY might be favoured, but look at how they went out against Trap. They looked unconvincing for people who were supposed to do way better than Trap. And finally, Neeb played 5 people. How many people would he have played in WCS summer? 5 people. Now, you are correct in saying that he played only specific matchups, but bracket luck is part of any tournament. I think it's actually even more significant that Neeb played one style. He played a single style against Protoss and beat them in micro because they knew it was coming and still couldn't stop him. However, I definitely agree that he played against primarily one style of opponent, the Korean style, which is quite different than the foreigner style of playing. You can be "bad" and beat better players in bo3 mirrors in online qualifiers, that's within the expected variance of the game, tbh. | ||
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Noonius
Estonia17413 Posts
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YamiRi
152 Posts
2. ByuN 3. TY 4. Neeb 5. Stats 6. Solar 7. Nerchio 8. Snute 9. Dear 10. Patience 11. Zest 12. ShowTime 13. Polt 14. TRUE 15. Elazer 16. Violet | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On October 05 2016 23:35 FrkFrJss wrote: But if Pet's really bad, what does that make True or Dark? Admittedly, it was only a single series, but a lot of other people who were suppose to do well failed, and a lot of people, including Neeb, who weren't supposed to do well, made the finals. Solar and TY might be favoured, but look at how they went out against Trap. They looked unconvincing for people who were supposed to do way better than Trap. And finally, Neeb played 5 people. How many people would he have played in WCS summer? 5 people. Now, you are correct in saying that he played only specific matchups, but bracket luck is part of any tournament. I think it's actually even more significant that Neeb played one style. He played a single style against Protoss and beat them in micro because they knew it was coming and still couldn't stop him. However, I definitely agree that he played against primarily one style of opponent, the Korean style, which is quite different than the foreigner style of playing. Dark and Solar are still better than Pet. Online qualifiers and bo1-3 can always go the other way. The game isnt 100% winrate for anyone. TY, Solar, and Patience, are better players than Trap thats for sure. But he still beat them due to variance of it all and simply performance on the day. That and the broken map pool blah blah let's not get into that  Neeb in WCS would have played all bo5 until finals, against players experienced with him and from the same region/meta. And also its luck whether he meets good Zerg/terran player or not, he probably would. So yeah it id say should be much harder for him to win in one of those. Tbh I'm quite surprised the Koreans tried to out micro him with disruptors, he was waaay better with them (obviously cause they're his playstyle from his meta). Considering the one time Stats used pheonixes he destroyed him (then decides not to do it again??). | ||
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Elentos
55550 Posts
On October 06 2016 01:35 Fango wrote: Dark and Solar are still better than Pet. Online qualifiers and bo1-3 can always go the other way. The game isnt 100% winrate for anyone. TY, Solar, and Patience, are better players than Trap thats for sure. But he still beat them due to variance of it all and simply performance on the day. It's also preparation. From the players who reached the top 4, Neeb and Stats just played very strongly executed standard games. Meanwhile TY and Trap (outside of PvP) played extremely well prepared and well thought out builds that aren't really meta. | ||
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GreenMash
Norway1746 Posts
Neeb2 Nerchio 3 Snute4 ShoWTimE5 Elazer6 ByuN7 Dark8 TY9 Stats10 Solar11 Zest12 Patience13 Dear14 TRUE15 Polt 16 viOLet | ||
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buchh
38 Posts
Dark02.(T) TY03.(T) ByuN 04.(Z) Solar05.(P) Patience06.(P) Neeb07.(P) Zest08.(P) Stats09.(Z) Nerchio10.(Z) Snute11.(P) TRUE12.(P) Dear13.(T) Polt 14.(P) ShoWTimE15.(Z) Elazer16.(Z) viOLet | ||
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FrkFrJss
Canada1205 Posts
On October 06 2016 01:35 Fango wrote: Dark and Solar are still better than Pet. Online qualifiers and bo1-3 can always go the other way. The game isnt 100% winrate for anyone. TY, Solar, and Patience, are better players than Trap thats for sure. But he still beat them due to variance of it all and simply performance on the day. That and the broken map pool blah blah let's not get into that Neeb in WCS would have played all bo5 until finals, against players experienced with him and from the same region/meta. And also its luck whether he meets good Zerg/terran player or not, he probably would. So yeah it id say should be much harder for him to win in one of those. Tbh I'm quite surprised the Koreans tried to out micro him with disruptors, he was waaay better with them (obviously cause they're his playstyle from his meta). Considering the one time Stats used pheonixes he destroyed him (then decides not to do it again??). First, I do agree with you that Patience, TY, and Solar are better players. I think then, the question is how much. Because the thing is, I don't really buy that simple variance along with better performance enabled Trap, who has accomplished very little this year, to beat out some of the best players of the year. I think that the skill level between these players on a given day, is decently close. Of course this doesn't meant that Trap will do well in individual leagues but on a given series, he has a decentish chance of taking it. Similarly, I don't buy that simple luck and familiarity with builds and meta were the main things that enabled Neeb to win. If this were so, then foreigners would have done better in 2015 and perhaps won more than one tournament against a large number of foreigners and comparatively few Koreans (I'm not counting WCS as the large majority were foreigners). Korean and foreigner meta have been fairly diverse even in the 2013/2014 days because the top, top Koreans generally stayed in Korea (though of course with exceptions like Polt, Bomber, MC, and Taeja among others). I think that Neeb won through his ability to micro/macro, and being able to keep a calm temperament throughout the tournament. I believe that this is the primary reason he won along with a lucky bracket and favourable metas. Besides, if we can discount (if ever so slightly) Neeb's wins, then we can similarly discount his losses. Neeb's nerves and poor play have definitely contributed to his losses in WCS. When he played and lost against Hydra, Snute, MarineLord, uThermal, and Polt, it can be argued that he really didn't play all that well in those series. I can attest to watching the uThermal final and being particularly disappointed with his lackluster play. Neeb has beaten all of these players a number of times (primarily online but also some of them offline), with notable examples being his destruction of Hydra and lesser destruction of uThermal after his tournament losses to them. (And of course, the opposite argument being that his opponents played well against him) What I'm saying is that I do not think his performance in Kespa Cup or his lack of performance in WCS can be attributed to simple things like bracket luck and metas. While those things do affect people being familiar with his play or being unfamiliar with his play, I would put more stock into performance and ability rather than more extraneous factors. Also, Neeb is weaker against more aggressive plays (at least by T and Z), and foreigners have a tendency to pull off more aggressive builds as well. As a note on the lack of phoenix versus Neeb, I think he varied his play enough that them going stargate all the time would not have helped. Neeb did not blindly go disruptor all the time, though he did rely on this playstyle. I believe I recall a game against Trap where Trap tried to go stargate, and Neeb just killed him (I could be wrong though). | ||
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My_Fake_Plastic_Luv
United States257 Posts
TY2. Dark3. Neeb4. ByuN5. Stats6. Patience7. Solar8. Zest9. Nerchio10. Dear11. Snute12. TRUE13. Polt14. ShoWTimE15. viOLet16. ElazerStats is always underrated in my opinion. Solar and Byun are always a little bit overrated in my opinion, especially considering Byun only has one big tourney win. Zest and Polt are really hard to say, depends which version of them shows up. Definitely pissed that the tourney starts with a GSL style group stage. That is not enough games!!!! What is the rush? The 500,000 dollars with still be given out at the end!!! | ||
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