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Community Power Rank v5: Blizzcon with Foreigners! - Page 4

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
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Poopi
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France12873 Posts
October 05 2016 10:17 GMT
#61
You can automatically TLPD-ize your list by selecting your whole list then clicking on the hydralisk icon on the right by the way!
It's really neat, didn't know you had nothing more to do.
WriterMaru
ejozl
Profile Joined October 2010
Denmark3380 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-13 07:45:33
October 05 2016 10:43 GMT
#62
Fun fact best Blizzcon performance previously with players attending this Blizzcon is Polt and Dear with ro8's.

1: (Z)Solar
2: (Z)Dark
3: (P)Patience
4: (Z)Snute
5: (T)ByuN
6: (P)Neeb
7: (T)TY
8: (P)Stats
9: (Z)TRUE
10: (P)ShoWTimE
11: (Z)Nerchio
12: (P)Dear
13: (P)Zest
14: (Z)Elazer
15: (Z)viOLet
16: (P)PtitDrogo
SC2 Archon needs "Terrible, terrible damage" as one of it's quotes.
lestye
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States4163 Posts
October 05 2016 10:58 GMT
#63
On October 05 2016 19:17 Poopi wrote:
You can automatically TLPD-ize your list by selecting your whole list then clicking on the hydralisk icon on the right by the way!
It's really neat, didn't know you had nothing more to do.

Holy shit! Nice!


1. (Z)Solar
2. (T)ByuN
3. (T)Polt
4. (T)TY
5. (Z)Dark
6.(Z)TRUE
7. (P)Patience
8. (P)Dear
9. (P)Zest
10. (P)Stats
11. (Z)Snute
12. (P)Neeb
13. (P)ShoWTimE
14. (Z)viOLet
15. (Z)Nerchio
16. (Z)Elazer
"You guys are just edgelords. Embrace your inner weeb desu" -Zergneedsfood
KalWarkov
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Germany4126 Posts
October 05 2016 12:33 GMT
#64
hilarious how many overrate Neeb. Let him win a WCS event first or show some consistancy on THAT level.

Yes, he is a top 3 foreigner, it is debateable that he is the best foreigner. but guys, he is nowhere near top 3 or 4 in this ranking.
DiaBoLuS ** Sc2 - Protoss: 16x GM | Dota2 - Offlane Immortal | Wc3 - Undead decent level | Diablo nerd | Chess / Magnus fanboy | BVB | Agnostic***
hiroshOne
Profile Joined October 2015
Poland425 Posts
October 05 2016 12:47 GMT
#65
Oh no...Another power rank which will have nothing common with actual scores...
Ultima Ratio Regum
FrkFrJss
Profile Joined April 2015
Canada1205 Posts
October 05 2016 13:16 GMT
#66
On October 05 2016 21:33 KalWarkov wrote:
hilarious how many overrate Neeb. Let him win a WCS event first or show some consistancy on THAT level.

Yes, he is a top 3 foreigner, it is debateable that he is the best foreigner. but guys, he is nowhere near top 3 or 4 in this ranking.


That's the first time I've ever seen someone rate a WCS tournament as higher than a Korean tournament, but to each his own. Like...Neeb just made history.

This is a really tough power ranking to do, because in certain matchups, I feel like some people are above others but below other people in different matchups.

Like for instance? TY and Stats, both very good players, but the way TY lost to Trap was pretty bad, and Neeb dominated Stats. On the other hand, if TY were to face a Zerg, he might look pretty good, and Stats at the very least didn't look terrible against Maru.
"Keep Moving Forward" - Walt Disney
Fango
Profile Joined July 2016
United Kingdom8987 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-05 13:59:07
October 05 2016 13:57 GMT
#67
On October 05 2016 22:16 FrkFrJss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 05 2016 21:33 KalWarkov wrote:
hilarious how many overrate Neeb. Let him win a WCS event first or show some consistancy on THAT level.

Yes, he is a top 3 foreigner, it is debateable that he is the best foreigner. but guys, he is nowhere near top 3 or 4 in this ranking.


That's the first time I've ever seen someone rate a WCS tournament as higher than a Korean tournament, but to each his own. Like...Neeb just made history.

This is a really tough power ranking to do, because in certain matchups, I feel like some people are above others but below other people in different matchups.

Like for instance? TY and Stats, both very good players, but the way TY lost to Trap was pretty bad, and Neeb dominated Stats. On the other hand, if TY were to face a Zerg, he might look pretty good, and Stats at the very least didn't look terrible against Maru.



Its more the nature of the event rather than the fact its Korea. Neeb only fought protoss in the whole thing (and 2 very bad Zergs) and did the same strat almost every time, with the disruptor stalker battles. It would be much harder for him to have won one of the WCS cups that have more players and more variety.

He played great in all of them though I'm not denying that, and he is eeeeasily the best foreigner. But I'd rate him behind any of the koreans at blizzcon except maybe patience and dear in PvP.
Zest, sOs, PartinG, Dark, and Maru are the real champs. ROOT_herO is overrated. Snute, Serral, and Scarlett are the foreigner GOATs
Jenia6109
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Russian Federation1612 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-05 14:26:35
October 05 2016 14:25 GMT
#68
1. (Z)Dark
2. (T)ByuN
3. (Z)Solar
4. (P)Zest
5. (T)TY
6. (P)Stats
7. (P)Neeb
8. (Z)Nerchio
9. (Z)Snute
10. (P)Patience
11. (P)Dear
12. (Z)TRUE
13. (P)ShoWTimE
14. (T)Polt
15. (Z)viOLet
16. (Z)Elazer
INnoVation TY Maru | Classic Stats Dear sOs Zest herO | Rogue Dark soO
sparklyresidue
Profile Joined August 2011
United States5523 Posts
October 05 2016 14:27 GMT
#69
On October 05 2016 21:47 hiroshOne wrote:
Oh no...Another power rank which will have nothing common with actual scores...

Power ranks are fun but obviously they often do not predict outcomes because of things like group stages and different matchups.
Like Tinkerbelle, I leave behind a sparkly residue.
FrkFrJss
Profile Joined April 2015
Canada1205 Posts
October 05 2016 14:35 GMT
#70
On October 05 2016 22:57 Fango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 05 2016 22:16 FrkFrJss wrote:
On October 05 2016 21:33 KalWarkov wrote:
hilarious how many overrate Neeb. Let him win a WCS event first or show some consistancy on THAT level.

Yes, he is a top 3 foreigner, it is debateable that he is the best foreigner. but guys, he is nowhere near top 3 or 4 in this ranking.


That's the first time I've ever seen someone rate a WCS tournament as higher than a Korean tournament, but to each his own. Like...Neeb just made history.

This is a really tough power ranking to do, because in certain matchups, I feel like some people are above others but below other people in different matchups.

Like for instance? TY and Stats, both very good players, but the way TY lost to Trap was pretty bad, and Neeb dominated Stats. On the other hand, if TY were to face a Zerg, he might look pretty good, and Stats at the very least didn't look terrible against Maru.



Its more the nature of the event rather than the fact its Korea. Neeb only fought protoss in the whole thing (and 2 very bad Zergs) and did the same strat almost every time, with the disruptor stalker battles. It would be much harder for him to have won one of the WCS cups that have more players and more variety.

He played great in all of them though I'm not denying that, and he is eeeeasily the best foreigner. But I'd rate him behind any of the koreans at blizzcon except maybe patience and dear in PvP.

But if Pet's really bad, what does that make True or Dark? Admittedly, it was only a single series, but a lot of other people who were suppose to do well failed, and a lot of people, including Neeb, who weren't supposed to do well, made the finals.

Solar and TY might be favoured, but look at how they went out against Trap. They looked unconvincing for people who were supposed to do way better than Trap.

And finally, Neeb played 5 people. How many people would he have played in WCS summer? 5 people. Now, you are correct in saying that he played only specific matchups, but bracket luck is part of any tournament. I think it's actually even more significant that Neeb played one style. He played a single style against Protoss and beat them in micro because they knew it was coming and still couldn't stop him.

However, I definitely agree that he played against primarily one style of opponent, the Korean style, which is quite different than the foreigner style of playing.


"Keep Moving Forward" - Walt Disney
Jenia6109
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Russian Federation1612 Posts
October 05 2016 14:45 GMT
#71
On October 05 2016 08:59 phodacbiet wrote:
Hm, so many people are putting Dark, am I missing something here? Was he really that dominant?


Because of 9400 maybe
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2016_StarCraft_II_World_Championship_Series_Korea/Standings
INnoVation TY Maru | Classic Stats Dear sOs Zest herO | Rogue Dark soO
Poopi
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France12873 Posts
October 05 2016 14:49 GMT
#72
On October 05 2016 23:35 FrkFrJss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 05 2016 22:57 Fango wrote:
On October 05 2016 22:16 FrkFrJss wrote:
On October 05 2016 21:33 KalWarkov wrote:
hilarious how many overrate Neeb. Let him win a WCS event first or show some consistancy on THAT level.

Yes, he is a top 3 foreigner, it is debateable that he is the best foreigner. but guys, he is nowhere near top 3 or 4 in this ranking.


That's the first time I've ever seen someone rate a WCS tournament as higher than a Korean tournament, but to each his own. Like...Neeb just made history.

This is a really tough power ranking to do, because in certain matchups, I feel like some people are above others but below other people in different matchups.

Like for instance? TY and Stats, both very good players, but the way TY lost to Trap was pretty bad, and Neeb dominated Stats. On the other hand, if TY were to face a Zerg, he might look pretty good, and Stats at the very least didn't look terrible against Maru.



Its more the nature of the event rather than the fact its Korea. Neeb only fought protoss in the whole thing (and 2 very bad Zergs) and did the same strat almost every time, with the disruptor stalker battles. It would be much harder for him to have won one of the WCS cups that have more players and more variety.

He played great in all of them though I'm not denying that, and he is eeeeasily the best foreigner. But I'd rate him behind any of the koreans at blizzcon except maybe patience and dear in PvP.

But if Pet's really bad, what does that make True or Dark? Admittedly, it was only a single series, but a lot of other people who were suppose to do well failed, and a lot of people, including Neeb, who weren't supposed to do well, made the finals.

Solar and TY might be favoured, but look at how they went out against Trap. They looked unconvincing for people who were supposed to do way better than Trap.

And finally, Neeb played 5 people. How many people would he have played in WCS summer? 5 people. Now, you are correct in saying that he played only specific matchups, but bracket luck is part of any tournament. I think it's actually even more significant that Neeb played one style. He played a single style against Protoss and beat them in micro because they knew it was coming and still couldn't stop him.

However, I definitely agree that he played against primarily one style of opponent, the Korean style, which is quite different than the foreigner style of playing.



You can be "bad" and beat better players in bo3 mirrors in online qualifiers, that's within the expected variance of the game, tbh.
WriterMaru
Noonius
Profile Joined April 2012
Estonia17413 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-05 15:22:38
October 05 2016 15:22 GMT
#73
I, for one, only believe in official TL lists
Terran forever | Maru hater forever
YamiRi
Profile Joined September 2015
152 Posts
October 05 2016 16:16 GMT
#74
1. Dark
2. ByuN
3. TY
4. Neeb
5. Stats
6. Solar
7. Nerchio
8. Snute
9. Dear
10. Patience
11. Zest
12. ShowTime
13. Polt
14. TRUE
15. Elazer
16. Violet
Fango
Profile Joined July 2016
United Kingdom8987 Posts
October 05 2016 16:35 GMT
#75
On October 05 2016 23:35 FrkFrJss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 05 2016 22:57 Fango wrote:
On October 05 2016 22:16 FrkFrJss wrote:
On October 05 2016 21:33 KalWarkov wrote:
hilarious how many overrate Neeb. Let him win a WCS event first or show some consistancy on THAT level.

Yes, he is a top 3 foreigner, it is debateable that he is the best foreigner. but guys, he is nowhere near top 3 or 4 in this ranking.


That's the first time I've ever seen someone rate a WCS tournament as higher than a Korean tournament, but to each his own. Like...Neeb just made history.

This is a really tough power ranking to do, because in certain matchups, I feel like some people are above others but below other people in different matchups.

Like for instance? TY and Stats, both very good players, but the way TY lost to Trap was pretty bad, and Neeb dominated Stats. On the other hand, if TY were to face a Zerg, he might look pretty good, and Stats at the very least didn't look terrible against Maru.



Its more the nature of the event rather than the fact its Korea. Neeb only fought protoss in the whole thing (and 2 very bad Zergs) and did the same strat almost every time, with the disruptor stalker battles. It would be much harder for him to have won one of the WCS cups that have more players and more variety.

He played great in all of them though I'm not denying that, and he is eeeeasily the best foreigner. But I'd rate him behind any of the koreans at blizzcon except maybe patience and dear in PvP.

But if Pet's really bad, what does that make True or Dark? Admittedly, it was only a single series, but a lot of other people who were suppose to do well failed, and a lot of people, including Neeb, who weren't supposed to do well, made the finals.

Solar and TY might be favoured, but look at how they went out against Trap. They looked unconvincing for people who were supposed to do way better than Trap.

And finally, Neeb played 5 people. How many people would he have played in WCS summer? 5 people. Now, you are correct in saying that he played only specific matchups, but bracket luck is part of any tournament. I think it's actually even more significant that Neeb played one style. He played a single style against Protoss and beat them in micro because they knew it was coming and still couldn't stop him.

However, I definitely agree that he played against primarily one style of opponent, the Korean style, which is quite different than the foreigner style of playing.




Dark and Solar are still better than Pet. Online qualifiers and bo1-3 can always go the other way.
The game isnt 100% winrate for anyone. TY, Solar, and Patience, are better players than Trap thats for sure. But he still beat them due to variance of it all and simply performance on the day. That and the broken map pool blah blah let's not get into that

Neeb in WCS would have played all bo5 until finals, against players experienced with him and from the same region/meta. And also its luck whether he meets good Zerg/terran player or not, he probably would. So yeah it id say should be much harder for him to win in one of those.

Tbh I'm quite surprised the Koreans tried to out micro him with disruptors, he was waaay better with them (obviously cause they're his playstyle from his meta). Considering the one time Stats used pheonixes he destroyed him (then decides not to do it again??).

Zest, sOs, PartinG, Dark, and Maru are the real champs. ROOT_herO is overrated. Snute, Serral, and Scarlett are the foreigner GOATs
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55550 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-05 17:02:40
October 05 2016 16:59 GMT
#76
On October 06 2016 01:35 Fango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 05 2016 23:35 FrkFrJss wrote:
On October 05 2016 22:57 Fango wrote:
On October 05 2016 22:16 FrkFrJss wrote:
On October 05 2016 21:33 KalWarkov wrote:
hilarious how many overrate Neeb. Let him win a WCS event first or show some consistancy on THAT level.

Yes, he is a top 3 foreigner, it is debateable that he is the best foreigner. but guys, he is nowhere near top 3 or 4 in this ranking.


That's the first time I've ever seen someone rate a WCS tournament as higher than a Korean tournament, but to each his own. Like...Neeb just made history.

This is a really tough power ranking to do, because in certain matchups, I feel like some people are above others but below other people in different matchups.

Like for instance? TY and Stats, both very good players, but the way TY lost to Trap was pretty bad, and Neeb dominated Stats. On the other hand, if TY were to face a Zerg, he might look pretty good, and Stats at the very least didn't look terrible against Maru.



Its more the nature of the event rather than the fact its Korea. Neeb only fought protoss in the whole thing (and 2 very bad Zergs) and did the same strat almost every time, with the disruptor stalker battles. It would be much harder for him to have won one of the WCS cups that have more players and more variety.

He played great in all of them though I'm not denying that, and he is eeeeasily the best foreigner. But I'd rate him behind any of the koreans at blizzcon except maybe patience and dear in PvP.

But if Pet's really bad, what does that make True or Dark? Admittedly, it was only a single series, but a lot of other people who were suppose to do well failed, and a lot of people, including Neeb, who weren't supposed to do well, made the finals.

Solar and TY might be favoured, but look at how they went out against Trap. They looked unconvincing for people who were supposed to do way better than Trap.

And finally, Neeb played 5 people. How many people would he have played in WCS summer? 5 people. Now, you are correct in saying that he played only specific matchups, but bracket luck is part of any tournament. I think it's actually even more significant that Neeb played one style. He played a single style against Protoss and beat them in micro because they knew it was coming and still couldn't stop him.

However, I definitely agree that he played against primarily one style of opponent, the Korean style, which is quite different than the foreigner style of playing.




Dark and Solar are still better than Pet. Online qualifiers and bo1-3 can always go the other way.
The game isnt 100% winrate for anyone. TY, Solar, and Patience, are better players than Trap thats for sure. But he still beat them due to variance of it all and simply performance on the day.

It's also preparation. From the players who reached the top 4, Neeb and Stats just played very strongly executed standard games. Meanwhile TY and Trap (outside of PvP) played extremely well prepared and well thought out builds that aren't really meta.
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
GreenMash
Profile Joined August 2012
Norway1746 Posts
October 05 2016 17:31 GMT
#77
1 (P)Neeb
2 (Z)Nerchio
3 (Z)Snute
4 (P)ShoWTimE
5 (Z)Elazer
6 (T)ByuN
7 (Z)Dark
8 (T)TY
9 (P)Stats
10 (Z)Solar
11 (P)Zest
12 (P)Patience
13 (P)Dear
14 (Z)TRUE
15 (T)Polt
16 (Z)viOLet
I love hellbats
buchh
Profile Joined June 2016
38 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-05 18:22:20
October 05 2016 18:21 GMT
#78
01.(Z)(Z)Dark
02.(T)(T)TY
03.(T)(T)ByuN
04.(Z)(Z)Solar
05.(P)(P)Patience
06.(P)(P)Neeb
07.(P)(P)Zest
08.(P)(P)Stats
09.(Z)(Z)Nerchio
10.(Z)(Z)Snute
11.(P)(Z)TRUE
12.(P)(P)Dear
13.(T)(T)Polt
14.(P)(P)ShoWTimE
15.(Z)(Z)Elazer
16.(Z)(Z)viOLet
FrkFrJss
Profile Joined April 2015
Canada1205 Posts
October 05 2016 18:31 GMT
#79
On October 06 2016 01:35 Fango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 05 2016 23:35 FrkFrJss wrote:
On October 05 2016 22:57 Fango wrote:
On October 05 2016 22:16 FrkFrJss wrote:
On October 05 2016 21:33 KalWarkov wrote:
hilarious how many overrate Neeb. Let him win a WCS event first or show some consistancy on THAT level.

Yes, he is a top 3 foreigner, it is debateable that he is the best foreigner. but guys, he is nowhere near top 3 or 4 in this ranking.


That's the first time I've ever seen someone rate a WCS tournament as higher than a Korean tournament, but to each his own. Like...Neeb just made history.

This is a really tough power ranking to do, because in certain matchups, I feel like some people are above others but below other people in different matchups.

Like for instance? TY and Stats, both very good players, but the way TY lost to Trap was pretty bad, and Neeb dominated Stats. On the other hand, if TY were to face a Zerg, he might look pretty good, and Stats at the very least didn't look terrible against Maru.



Its more the nature of the event rather than the fact its Korea. Neeb only fought protoss in the whole thing (and 2 very bad Zergs) and did the same strat almost every time, with the disruptor stalker battles. It would be much harder for him to have won one of the WCS cups that have more players and more variety.

He played great in all of them though I'm not denying that, and he is eeeeasily the best foreigner. But I'd rate him behind any of the koreans at blizzcon except maybe patience and dear in PvP.

But if Pet's really bad, what does that make True or Dark? Admittedly, it was only a single series, but a lot of other people who were suppose to do well failed, and a lot of people, including Neeb, who weren't supposed to do well, made the finals.

Solar and TY might be favoured, but look at how they went out against Trap. They looked unconvincing for people who were supposed to do way better than Trap.

And finally, Neeb played 5 people. How many people would he have played in WCS summer? 5 people. Now, you are correct in saying that he played only specific matchups, but bracket luck is part of any tournament. I think it's actually even more significant that Neeb played one style. He played a single style against Protoss and beat them in micro because they knew it was coming and still couldn't stop him.

However, I definitely agree that he played against primarily one style of opponent, the Korean style, which is quite different than the foreigner style of playing.




Dark and Solar are still better than Pet. Online qualifiers and bo1-3 can always go the other way.
The game isnt 100% winrate for anyone. TY, Solar, and Patience, are better players than Trap thats for sure. But he still beat them due to variance of it all and simply performance on the day. That and the broken map pool blah blah let's not get into that

Neeb in WCS would have played all bo5 until finals, against players experienced with him and from the same region/meta. And also its luck whether he meets good Zerg/terran player or not, he probably would. So yeah it id say should be much harder for him to win in one of those.

Tbh I'm quite surprised the Koreans tried to out micro him with disruptors, he was waaay better with them (obviously cause they're his playstyle from his meta). Considering the one time Stats used pheonixes he destroyed him (then decides not to do it again??).



First, I do agree with you that Patience, TY, and Solar are better players. I think then, the question is how much. Because the thing is, I don't really buy that simple variance along with better performance enabled Trap, who has accomplished very little this year, to beat out some of the best players of the year. I think that the skill level between these players on a given day, is decently close. Of course this doesn't meant that Trap will do well in individual leagues but on a given series, he has a decentish chance of taking it.

Similarly, I don't buy that simple luck and familiarity with builds and meta were the main things that enabled Neeb to win. If this were so, then foreigners would have done better in 2015 and perhaps won more than one tournament against a large number of foreigners and comparatively few Koreans (I'm not counting WCS as the large majority were foreigners). Korean and foreigner meta have been fairly diverse even in the 2013/2014 days because the top, top Koreans generally stayed in Korea (though of course with exceptions like Polt, Bomber, MC, and Taeja among others).

I think that Neeb won through his ability to micro/macro, and being able to keep a calm temperament throughout the tournament. I believe that this is the primary reason he won along with a lucky bracket and favourable metas.

Besides, if we can discount (if ever so slightly) Neeb's wins, then we can similarly discount his losses. Neeb's nerves and poor play have definitely contributed to his losses in WCS. When he played and lost against Hydra, Snute, MarineLord, uThermal, and Polt, it can be argued that he really didn't play all that well in those series. I can attest to watching the uThermal final and being particularly disappointed with his lackluster play. Neeb has beaten all of these players a number of times (primarily online but also some of them offline), with notable examples being his destruction of Hydra and lesser destruction of uThermal after his tournament losses to them. (And of course, the opposite argument being that his opponents played well against him)

What I'm saying is that I do not think his performance in Kespa Cup or his lack of performance in WCS can be attributed to simple things like bracket luck and metas. While those things do affect people being familiar with his play or being unfamiliar with his play, I would put more stock into performance and ability rather than more extraneous factors. Also, Neeb is weaker against more aggressive plays (at least by T and Z), and foreigners have a tendency to pull off more aggressive builds as well.

As a note on the lack of phoenix versus Neeb, I think he varied his play enough that them going stargate all the time would not have helped. Neeb did not blindly go disruptor all the time, though he did rely on this playstyle. I believe I recall a game against Trap where Trap tried to go stargate, and Neeb just killed him (I could be wrong though).
"Keep Moving Forward" - Walt Disney
My_Fake_Plastic_Luv
Profile Joined March 2010
United States257 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-05 19:08:15
October 05 2016 19:01 GMT
#80
1. (T)TY
2. (Z)Dark
3. (P)Neeb
4. (T)ByuN
5. (P)Stats
6. (P)Patience
7. (Z)Solar
8. (P)Zest
9. (Z)Nerchio
10. (P)Dear
11. (Z)Snute
12. (Z)TRUE
13. (T)Polt
14. (P)ShoWTimE
15. (Z)viOLet
16. (Z)Elazer

Stats is always underrated in my opinion. Solar and Byun are always a little bit overrated in my opinion, especially considering Byun only has one big tourney win. Zest and Polt are really hard to say, depends which version of them shows up. Definitely pissed that the tourney starts with a GSL style group stage. That is not enough games!!!! What is the rush? The 500,000 dollars with still be given out at the end!!!
Its going to be a glorious day, I feel my luck could change
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