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Japan11484 Posts
On October 20 2015 12:50 Circumstance wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2015 12:40 c3rberUs wrote:
sAviOr hasn't streamed since August and pls no, don't ban HwaSin. Streaming is not professional gaming. It's playing a game at set times for money. In Hearthstone, Kripparian might not be a competitive player, but that game is his profession. When you undermine the integrity of the game in any form, that game cannot be your livelihood. Twitch, Afreeca, et al. are being given a request by Kespa. They, as private organizations, are well within their right to decline, as I understand it (if it's a mandate, they can dispute it if they want). I find nothing unreasonable going on here.
There's a reason why these guys are called ex-pros (전 프로). They're no longer paid to play the game. These guys are not being paid regular salaries, they rely on donations from their fans/viewers whether they were matchfixers or not.
@Harem. Didn't know that haha
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I completely disagree with this.
What does streaming video games have to do with match-fixing?
How will banning someone from streaming in ANY WAY prevent future match-fixing?
It won't.
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United States33680 Posts
On October 20 2015 12:51 Wolf wrote:
Based on conversations I had with Afreeca months ago, I do not think they will abide by this request.
They don't have to listen to KeSPA. but the statement says they'll work with the game publisher to enforce this.
Basically everyone in the industry acknowledges that game publishers own all the video/streaming rights to their games. KeSPA tried to fight Blizzard on this for years behind closed doors and lost. If Blizzard gets involved, do you think Afreeca wants to get into a legal confrontation over a handful of small-time streamers?
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Poland3772 Posts
On October 20 2015 12:50 Circumstance wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2015 12:40 c3rberUs wrote:
sAviOr hasn't streamed since August and pls no, don't ban HwaSin. Streaming is not professional gaming. It's playing a game at set times for money. In Hearthstone, Kripparian might not be a competitive player, but that game is his profession. When you undermine the integrity of the game in any form, that game cannot be your livelihood. Twitch, Afreeca, et al. are being given a request by Kespa. They, as private organizations, are well within their right to decline, as I understand it (if it's a mandate, they can dispute it if they want). I find nothing unreasonable going on here.
I can't imagine anyone would try to enforce ban on Lance Armstrong for making a show about cycling online or on TV if it wasn't part of UCI. Sure, they would protest but I would not see ban incoming.
This is going too far imho.
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Here KeSPA goes again. In a way I support this request but I feel they're going too far with it. What if I'm a full time streamer like MC? I'm not a competitive progamer anymore. Just a pro streamer who streams when I'm not busy with real life. If you still want to watch me stream and you enjoy it, nothing wrong with that. I think.
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well match fixing does a lot of damage to the industry, and although the match fixers get a ban, the ones left to try and make a living for themselves in an industry that is losing money due to these scandals are left disadvantaged for no reason. its unfair on the professionals who actually played by the rules to have their jobs put in danger suddenly. its also unfair that the match fixers then get to stream on afreeca and make the same amount of money they made when they played professionally, despite all the damage theyve done to the industry and its people.
how will banning someone from streaming prevent future match fixing? well at the very least you make it clear to any future match fixers that if they get caught there is no future for them in gaming. some people who match fix probably think that they have a safety net in afreeca streaming even if they get banned, so this initiative removes that safety net. its pretty big considering that most progamers are pretty untalented in any other field and outside gaming they arent gonna do shit with their lives because they just havent prepared for it. i mean as much as i love bisu and for all his talents, once he returns from military and he hits his 30s, there is really not much he can do besides go back to school and attempt to study for another job again unless he plans on remaining as a caster or something in the esports scene
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On October 20 2015 13:04 ShambhalaWar wrote:
I completely disagree with this.
What does streaming video games have to do with match-fixing?
How will banning someone from streaming in ANY WAY prevent future match-fixing?
It won't.
They want to completely eradicate anyone who may have participated in match-fixing. I think in this case they are banning those guys from the Brood War match-fixing to make an example of them and the match-fixers caught yesterday.
This is KeSPA coming out and saying, "We will destroy your legacy. Now when people think of you, they will only think of the terrible thing that you did. They won't think of you streaming the other day, they'll think of how you threw games for money."
Personally, in some ways, I really do think this is going too far.
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Good move, I support KeSPA!
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Poland3772 Posts
Also it seems that at this point it's seems fishy on the legal part. Blizzard endorsed a game also as a streaming medium and esports platform so it's viable to have a lifestyle with income based on either of those activities.
KeSPA of course is just fine with banning them for breaking their rules, but if you start banning someone from - really - unrealted activities on top of court's penalties, you're just enforcing justice of your own which too me sounds like overstepping your boundaries.
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On October 20 2015 11:43 Jjjinyong wrote:
been a long time coming. They can do whatever they want but they shouldn't stream starcraft. This isn't their playground. They can't matchfix and ruin a whole scene and come back trying to make money off of it. Just how gullible do they think the community is?
not sure I'd call it gullible, but when savior was playing for his stream he had a lot of donors.
controversy even more interesting, and it doesn't take away from the fact that the play is good.
point is, they still do it, and it still works, and they still get away with it for having something to give in return (gameplay).
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Afreeca isn't the only streaming site lol...even if they are banned from Afreeca (which i highly doubt they would), other lesser known korean streaming sites or China streams will take them in, and their fanatic fanbase will continue to support them no matter what.
just silly useless knee jerk reaction from kespa.
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On October 20 2015 13:12 geokilla wrote:
Here KeSPA goes again. In a way I support this request but I feel they're going too far with it. What if I'm a full time streamer like MC? I'm not a competitive progamer anymore. Just a pro streamer who streams when I'm not busy with real life. If you still want to watch me stream and you enjoy it, nothing wrong with that. I think.
Full time streaming is EXACTLY why I side with Kespa here. Yoda should NOT be allowed to make a living out of Starcraft now that this has come out. For that matter, if they want to ban the BW match fixers who now do the same thing, I would welcome it.
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they already abandoned bw and shit on all of us
cant they just fucking leave us alone
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kespa isnt the court. they are asking for cooperation from streaming sites and probably blizzard too. if they dont get their way then its the end of that, but i feel kespa is well within their rights to ask as they are not just the governing body of esports but in a way they are also the players/teams' union.
besides, there has never been precedence with cases like this, so if kespa can argue that match fixers do far too much damage to the industry that they should not be allowed to touch the game again, i think they might have their way
On October 20 2015 13:31 Probemicro wrote:
Afreeca isn't the only streaming site lol...even if they are banned from Afreeca (which i highly doubt they would), other lesser known korean streaming sites or China streams will take them in, and their fanatic fanbase will continue to support them no matter what.
just silly useless knee jerk reaction from kespa.
if a massive site like afreeca cant allow match fixers to stream, what makes you think some random smaller site would survive? rofl
and who would actually go to watch the random smaller site? afreeca basically monopolises korean streaming
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On October 20 2015 13:34 evilfatsh1t wrote:
kespa isnt the court. they are asking for cooperation from streaming sites and probably blizzard too. if they dont get their way then its the end of that, but i feel kespa is well within their rights to ask as they are not just the governing body of esports but in a way they are also the players/teams' union.
besides, there has never been precedence with cases like this, so if kespa can argue that match fixers do far too much damage to the industry that they should not be allowed to touch the game again, i think they might have their way
what
they requested bans for savior on afreeca forever,
match fixing isnt new to sc2 you know
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China6331 Posts
Does this apply to new banned match fixers only?
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On October 20 2015 13:08 Waxangel wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2015 12:51 Wolf wrote:
Based on conversations I had with Afreeca months ago, I do not think they will abide by this request. They don't have to listen to KeSPA. but the statement says they'll work with the game publisher to enforce this. Basically everyone in the industry acknowledges that game publishers own all the video/streaming rights to their games. KeSPA tried to fight Blizzard on this for years behind closed doors and lost. If Blizzard gets involved, do you think Afreeca wants to get into a legal confrontation over a handful of small-time streamers?
Will Blizzard actually get involved with this? This seems like the type of thing that Blizzard would just rather steer clear of.
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if a massive site like afreeca cant allow match fixers to stream, what makes you think some random smaller site would survive? rofl
and who would actually go to watch the random smaller site? afreeca basically monopolises korean streaming
if savior starts streaming in China, he will be given truckloads of attention and money i can assure you...they dont give about a fuck about kespa or whatever in general. you are the foolish one here
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Besides, KeSPA raises civil suit against match fixers to punish`em.
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EPT
